This is the second review/recording I have watched of yours and I am impressed by your knowledge on this subject and the professional way you present things. I look forward to watching more.
Very helpfull! I am about to try a Pietta .44 cal. New Army. I have greased wads for under the bullet/round ball. I have .454 round ball witch is recommended by Pietta for this pistol. And I have been told more than once to squize the percussion can, I will! Thank you for the video!!!!
it's happened to me twice over the years, once was my fault for loading a undersized ball, the other time I think it was a loose cap. It suprised me when it happened but it was the next shot in line so it just went down the side of the barrel.
That explanation actually makes a lot of sense. Thanks. I've often wondered about people who swear it's one or the other and refuse to consider that it could be both. The only chain fire I ever had was with blanks and I'm certain mine was from the front end of the cylinder because I was using Cream of Wheat to pack in my powder and not produce a projectile.
Thanks for the benefit of your experiences. I am about the only cap'n'ball shooter in my group here in New Zealand, so it is great to compare notes, as it were. First thing I do on getting a cap'n'ball revolver is check the cylinder mouth sizes and compare them to the groove size of the barrel (slug it to measure or use an inside mike at the muzzle). I have always found the chambers a bit tight on new reproduction revolvers....I take an expanding reamer and ream them to about a thou bigger than the groove size. This ensures that they are all the same, dead circular and match the bore properly. The amount removed is usually very small to get it right. just a thou or two, and once the reamer is set, doing the other cylinders is quick and easy. Do it by hand, not with a drill or anything... plenty of lube, frequent clearing of chips. Gives a better-than-factory finish, and gets them perfectly round. I use a 1/16" thick lubed felt wad behind the balls which keeps the fouling soft. I have never (so far) had a chain fire, but they should not happen with perfectly round cylinders and balls about two or three thou larger. My Remingtons use .457" balls which shave just a wee bit off on loading, the chamber mouths being .455+. and the groove size of the Ubertis is .454". Accuracy is better with this process completed too... :-)
Blackie - You have explained chain fire very well. I have only one disagreement. Namely DON'T pinch caps that are loose fitting. If the caps are loose fitting, don't use them or find another way to keep them on. I've been shooting since '71, and the ONLY chain fire I've had was when I accidentally bought some #12 caps for a revolver that took #10. ..... I initially pinched them just like you've suggested, but experienced chain fire. And no, one didn't fall off. I finally used those caps up on a rifle, and pinching them in place there worked fine. My brother used another method. He painted wax around the top of the nipples before he placed the caps. That seemed to work also. But long story short, and what I've been saying whenever the subject comes up, chain fire occurs with BOTH loose fitting caps AND balls. Ensure good fit, both caps and balls, and you should never have to experience a chain fire (Not guaranteeing that, mind you, just saying). Beyond that, you've explained it very well in language that most should find understandable. Good job.
thank you..i agree most time i pinch its a mere slight oval..the cap fits byitself..#11's..but i find the slight ( and i do mean slight ) pinch adds a tad of friction to keep them on during recoil..thanks for sharing..safe journeys
Could you please explain what happened to your hand when you experience a chain fire? Or what is the worst thing that could happen (injury’s) if one experiences a chain fire with a black powder revolver?
Awesome vid! I chamfered my cylinders which caused ball to compress rather than shave a ring. I was experimenting with long staying loads and had a squid load discharge (failed experiment) and the ball bounced off board and rolled back to me. Had an 1/8th inch compressed band around ball which I did find very interesting as evidence of the seal created. Just my 2 cents. Thanks much!
Great explanation - thanks! Just learned of this phenomenon in some other videos and was frustrated at the lack of explanation of what was going on. 'Til I got your video in the recommended list, that is.
I've noticed this with some cylinders that I've reamed. I used a .449 chucking reamer to get my Pietta cylinders right for my .448 barrel grove dimensions. Some chambers show signs of run out as you go deeper with the mouth being pretty concentric. That mouth area is where I place the indicator during set up in my 4-jaw chuck prior to reaming.
Blackie, I have been shooting percussion revolvers since early in the 1950's starting with an original 1851 Navy. Back in the time of DuPont gun powder and corrosive caps. In all that time I have had one single chamber fire and that was an undersized ball that should have been culled. Afterward I checked and the cap was still in place. When I checked the box of, cast by me , balls there were a couple of not so good ones that should have been culled. Whnen I listen to so called experts talk about "pinching" caps to fit I know there is a chain fire waiting to happen. Good work, good information, keep on shooting.
I had a chain fire my first time out too so don't feel bad man. Mine was only two chambers at the same time, due to a loose cap I believe. So I crimp them slightly and they seem to stay on much better.
I knew chain firing occured, but not the cause or cure. I am just now getting into black powder (have yet to fire a shot, or chain fire several, ha ha), I think i owe you my fingers, as i am sure i now get to keep them. Thanks. Good info.
As before mentioned on another of your videos, great info but I'm going to stop telling you that as your hat size is going to increase. :o) Interesting notes; Sam Colt emphasized the point of using correct cap and ball sizes during his sales pitches of these revolvers. At the beginning of the pitch he would place a loaded and capped revolver into a bucket of water. At the end of his speech (approx 15 minutes), removing the gun from the water bucket he would fire all six chambers with never a misfire or chain event! The other interesting fact is, the Colt factory originally didn't include info in the instructions to use any type of grease! That technique came about much later, not by Colt, but by the folks who owned one of these guns. Years later Colt did include that instruction and it first started with conicals (grease grooves as seen on factory made molds) and later on with round balls. Mentioning paper cartridges, not only were they made with nitrated paper but animal skin, as well as metallic foil, were also used. One poster inquired about chamfering the mouth of the cylinders: that was a patented, early improvement by Colt to help avoid chain fires and they used a chamfer of approx 2 degrees, so your pistol should already have that, Oracle69, thanks again for taking the time and effort to bring all this much needed info to the masses!!!!!
Another great video. I have heard, and continue to hear, all kinds of opinions on what causes chain fires. You are the first person that I have seen to actually explain how both ends of the cylinder can cause it to happen and how to avoid it. Your cap & ball series is wonderful. Thanks for all of the great information Blackie.
Great information! However I would argue that what is actually not perfectly round is the ball, not the cylinder, given the process of how each are made. Just my thought.
could be right however worked in engineering plus or minus up to 10 thou the norm and yes as he says the initial boring is done with a multi head tool when the tool is getting a lil long in the tooth or itself need s a regrind thwe hole it bores may not be abso round personally now i use a larger calibre ball in all my percussion pistols with either wad or grease
Very good information. What you said makes more sense than about a half dozen other videos I've watched on the subject. If you watch the ring that is made as you load and make note of which chamber, I've noticed a particular chamber makes a different ring then the others. That alone tells me they are not all the exact same. I have a 51 Colt 44. the 451s barely make a ring. This makes me a bit nervous. Never had a chain fire from either end actually and want to keep it that way! I like your advice of using a 457 ball. I use 10 caps instead of 11 and haven't had an issue of a lost cap yet. I look before I fire each shot to be sure. Using 11s even after squezing them have fallen off.
With almost 50 years experience, I have found that incorrect cap size is the main cause of chain fire. If you have to pinch the caps to keep them on then you're using the wrong size cap, (some brands of the same size fit tighter than others btw). Also it is more likely that the projectile is out of round than the chamber. If the ball doesn't leave a ring of lead all the way around you need a larger diameter ball (which will greatly improve accuracy as well). Oh and I don't use lube over the balls. It's not necessary, makes a mess, particularly on hot days. I like the Wonder Wads but they take up space and in my experience affect accuracy to some extent tho not much.
Thank you for such an informative video. I am new with Black Powder guns. But I grew up handling guns since I was 9 years old. My Dad drilled gun safety into my Brain. Most people have me fucking and weaving as they are showing off their guns. For instance if not for my fucking, there would be a split second it was pointing at me. But this video impressed me so much because all the Literature with my newly arrived 1860 Colt Army attributed chain fire to powder being ignited in front part of other cylinders. To use wads or grease (Crisco even) The fact that you discovered that 3 of your cylinders were as much as .002 too big shows that you know your shit and I greatly thank you.
Pretty much spot on. One thing I'd add is some of the early ones had poor machining and finishing on the chamber mouths. Some had slight burs that would undersize or scrape a small groove in a ball. Others lacked any kind of chamfer to the chamber mouth. A very slight chamfer on the chamber mouth makes swaging a ball or conical in much more secure. Last new one I saw was several years ago from Taylors, an 1860 and other than a change to quality nipples, needed zero work to get it running rite.
Good info blackie I always use grease or lard but I had never thought about the back i will check the caps from now on I have never had a chain fire knock on wood some good information
Thanks Blackie for posting this. My friend told me he got smaller balls than he actually needed but he's under the impression that if he uses lubed patches around the balls he's okay. I'm not so sure now. I don't think he's fired it yet.
Another benefit of oversized balls (or bullets) is that it grips the rifling better. to see that try and push your projectiles through the barrel and see what kind of mark the rifling leaves. I know that in a particular gun .450 conical engages well with the rifling and .454 ball also does. I wouldn't recommend .450 ball though. I like your videos.
I'm pretty sure he said sympathetic discharge. But did you say systemic discharge. Either one would be correct I guess. And I'm not knocking you on your accent by any stretch of the imagination. I live on the South Shore Boston Massachusetts. And we're known for having heaviest Accents in the state. But that was a beautiful worded statement. Thank you very much for all your videos. I am very excited about to start this new hobby. And I hope to have an action clay video. With these firearms when I get everything dialed then. I am planning on a getting the Remington and a 44 caliber 1851 Colt. I know the cold is not accurate but. I really love the old school Spaghetti Westerns. I am a carpenter and very capable with fixing things I would be interested in any other videos you have on modifying those two weapons to be safer and more reliable. If you ever get a chance or get around to it. Thank you very much I know just making these videos in general takes a lot of time. Once again thank you for your knowledge. And Merry Christmas
Many years ago when I was in the Army my friend and I went to range to fire my confederate Griswald & Gunnison 44. I should have paid closer attention to his loading as he forgot to grease the front of the cylinder. Needless to say he had a triple chain fire. Kind of sounded like a magnum load going off. I also noticed something hitting the dirt in front of him. One round exited the barrel, the second one made a wad cutter out of the lead ball wedging itself perfectly into the loading rod recess. That one came right out with the loading lever. The third was problematic. It hit the barrel wedge cutting the ball in two...that's what I saw hitting the ground in front of him. I never will forget the look on his face. That was the end of that brass frame and cylinder pin. The frame was stretched badly. Called Navy Arms and they replace the frame (complete) and a new barrel wedge for free. The gun was now good as new. At the time we were using .451 round balls. Now I know better and use .454 balls except in my Riger Old Army which uses .457 balls.
love the videos all off them I'm a civil war remaster and love seeing the videos you do on black powder revolvers would love to see a more in depth video on how you made you hobo fishing kit I want to make one myself
Grease on top of the ball makes a big mess. I take some BORE BUTTER and put a ring around the top of the cylinder similar to the size of lead ring that the ball would make when pressing a ball in. Then press the ball in. The over that ring of grease makes a good seal. Don’t get generous with the grease, you don’t want to lube the powder, a little is all you need.
Excellent tutorial Blackie, I too know first hand what chain fire can do, I was hit by a 44 ball from a 1858 Rem. New Army reproduction fired during a blackpowder shoot back in the 1980's. One of the participants had his revolver experience a "sympathetic cylinder fire" as he lowered it and the round ricocheted off the concrete we were standing on and hit me right on the bottom of my ribcage. luckily the shoot was in the fall and I had a heavy jacket on. Also fortunately chain fires don't build up as much pressure behind the round as they would driving it down the barrel so that quicker dissipation of pressure mitigated the force of the round to a degree when it hit me. just thought I'd share my first hand ( and rib) experience. Be safe and happy powder burning.
i once saw a sympathetic cook off as well..at a range in a match the shooter was to fire 2 shots with a revolver..lay it on the tabel run to the next table fire a rifle there and return to finish the cyl..he fired 2 quick shots placed the revolver on table and was half way to the rifle when the revolver cooked off..none hurt but scared the crap out of the range officer
Hi Blackie! I typically shoot my round balls with lubricated wads, but my paper cartridges with the Eras Gone bullets are just dipped in a mixture of beeswax and lamb's tallow, (pretty much like the originals). Have you ever experienced, or heard of, a chain fire with paper cartridges made in the traditional way? When shooting the paper cartridges, I usually wipe a little bore butter over the tops of each of them after they are loaded. My thought is if there is a slight gap around the bullet, the lube will lessen the chance. Your thoughts or feedback? Thanks much!!
one went the proper way down the barrel..the other 4 went down both side ..but the final on bulls-eyed the rammer..and did not damage the gun but i had to dig it out of the rammer pocket and clean everything back up to put the gun back in working order
So, I've used this method to check if I had any gaps because I want to make sure I don't get a chain fire the first time I fire my gun, however, I still have gaps in three chambers with .457 round ball and no rings on any chambers when loading. What would your advice be?
Blackie it has been a hard road these last few. I called .451 inferior for revolver loading I still feel it is inferior for revolver Loading and the news here just seems to support my thoughts on.451 being INFERIOR for revolver loading and why it is. So I sent it up the chain of (ad lib).
great vid blackie, but didnt you advise in one of your previous videos to soften the edges of the cylinders with a hand file so that we dont get the ring shaved off any more but that the ball gets sort of sqeezed in the cylinder ?
yes i did at the very front edge ..this will allow more of the lead to be squeezed in and thus produce a better seal..a slight out of round chamber will be help with it as well..thanks for the comment safe journeys
Great vid, Blackie! I don't shoot revolvers, so I had never heard of chain-firing. But I have a Czech made Detonics two-shot 'Gladiator' (kind of a modern black powder derringer). While I don't worry about a chain fire from the front as the barrels are a good four or five inches long, I wonder, if such a gun could set off the second barrel through a nipple issue? What do you think?
I find this helpful. You may have saved me possible grief and pain due to undersized balls. (.440) I was hoping to share ammunition between my ruger old army and my new 1858 pieta new army. Thank you !
The bore butter don't help for chain fires, chain fires happen from the back of the powder charge, Like if a cap falls off the nipple. The flash from one cap can light the other chamber that is missing a cap. Bore butter really helps the bullet threw the barrel and makes it much more accurate.
in my many yrs i have looked at chain fire quite a bit...if the bore is not truly round in the chamber then grease will help fill and prevent flash around the ball..if the cyl chamber walls are in correct round then it would help chain but still helps lube bore to prevent hard fouling..i have seen a chain fire at a match with a 3rd model dragoon where the chamber mouth s were heavly greased..but he had a cap fall off and the round ahead of it fired and boom..i think its just a combination of possible factors..the odds are low but not zero of it happening..and its one of the things we need to be aware of and be careful of..thanks for the comments..safe journeys
Thanks Blackie for your informative videos. You are one of my top UA-cam go to guys for black powder revolver info. I'm curious though why no manufacturer has made a slightly elastic plastic percussion cap that would fit tight on the nipple and not jam. Any thoughts? Thanks.
actually back in the 70's they tried it..it was a small rubber (?) cap holding the fulmante pellet in side..problem was they would flex and the pellet would fall out so you had a dead cap..they did not last long
What is the Worst that could happen if you experience a chain fire? Is it something to be worried about happening to the point where you dont want to shoot these?
Blackie, I have a Dragoon & the drum to the barrel clearance is .060 I filed the barrel frame & shorten the 2 pins some. I also shorten the arbor buy now my wedge is all the way in to be snug. I compared the wedge slot to my 2 Walkers & it seems close so there is enough meat for a new wedge to work. The clearance is now .010 I'm not sure a new wedge will help. Any ideas. THANKS RICK
ok is you base pin full screwed into the frame?..i saw this once before on a new gun..if it is then go with a new wedge..if its at .10 now it should be ok to fire..test and see..go slow..
@@blackoracle69 Thanks. Understood that nothing is 100%. That's helpful to know. I'll stop using the messy Crisco in every chamber and use the patches and just relax a little.
Wood putting a glob of Grease into your your bullets and rubbing it around them and then when they get pressed down it would give an extra layer of protection. I mean you already getting briefs and everything on your fingers unless you're using Wonder Wads correct. So it's a greasy process to begin with. But do you think that that would have any benefit. Thank you
it is usually a good idea..but any grease under the ball can effect the powder and make it hang fire or not go off..so a thick waxy lube thats not going to ruin the charge can work in my paper ctgs i often put tiny beads of soy wax in with the powder it will not wet the powder so to speak but will add lube as it goes down bore when fired
the pepper box was a gun to respect at card table distance..but much beyond that it was a spray and pray weapon...in my use of percussion revolvers it was too inaccurate for me still it was a fun way to pass a afternoon shooting at big targets
Great Video Blackie. With my .36 everything seems fine with .375 balls directly on top of powder, nice even shaving all around. Since using wonder wads, if it sits any time at all, the ball works itself up in the chamber to the point it won't stay rammed back down interfering with rotation so I can't get the caps on. Ball too small or am I missing something? Thanks
yep ball too small and charge a tad to big..when you ram you compress which is what you should do..but if charge a bit too big say 25 gr instead of 22 for example..the pressure can unseat( over days and days )a ball thats a tad too small try 380 and see if the rounds stay firm in the long run..thanks for the comment safe journeys
i got a 44 cal steal frame 1851 navy 44cal have 44cal .451 ball ammo and lubed wool wads for 44 .45 and have pyrodex 30 gran pellets with t17 Natural lube 1000 plus , with number 10 caps and a capper etc . will i need anything else too safely shoot this weapon ? should i be realy to go for the first time hitting the rang ? being safe my first time with black powder pistol .. ive used a musket alot .
So the first time you fired your .440 ammo you didn't use wads or grease or a powder overlay of corn meal? you just went with the powder and balls and fired all 6 at the same time? Still have the same gun and the same hand/fingers, etc...? interesting. Now you still don't use protection - just bigger balls? Have you tried the 30 grain pistol pellets? I'm about to use them tomorrow. I suppose I should grease up the holes. I don't care for the mess but didn't use wads or corn meal over them.
you would think but the ball is so close to the front of the cyl mouth it does not have a chance to gain much speed..and the pressure kinda forces the ball to flow out of the way like a pillow being pushed against a wall corner..then the pressure is release once the balls out of the way..the only place it can cause bad trouble is the one on the bottom since the rammer is in the way..i saw a friends 1860 chain fire and the ball hit the rammer hard enough to swell it and stick it in place ..it was tough getting it free and had to sand in down to fit back in the gun
not really..they are spoken of but when they do its much the same as we speak of a lightning strike near us..we have heard of it..but very few will have it happen
Blackie we are family we are both part Thomas Question .... I just rebuilt my 1851.. everything works smoothly untill I cap it.... I have to pull the hammer back push it in toward the cap and then rotate. If I actually shoot it or it's empty I don't have that problem What part could be affecting me. The hammer face,?
could be the hand hang up in its channel or the legs of the bolt..when you fire they jump past those quick but when you cycle by hand they drag or hang up
I've been considering getting my first percussion revolver but I am having serious second thoughts about personal safety. Too many instances of accidents and sloppy manufacturer of the reproductions for my taste. Am I being too paranoid? Never had a problem loading and firing thousands of metalic cartridges and shotshells.
today with the cowboy action shooter..a modern made percussion revolver cant afford to cut corners..the guns have to be good rugged and reliable as far as their design allows them to be...if they dont..the shooters will drop them and no sales....having been shooting replicas for 40 yrs i have watched the industry grow and greatly improve..my advice to you is do your homework..learn the hows and why of loading and proper safety..i would suggest the remington design as a first gun since its is closer to our modern guns with its solid frame..hope this helps..safe journeys
Is it a good idea to chamfer the opening at the loading end of the cylinder on a new CB revolver? If so how so? Is .457 too large a ball for Pietta New Army or is .454 preferrable? Thanks.
Howdy again, I followed your advice in the BP revolver series and have cleaned up all the wire edges and checked it out for defects in the crown ect.. Been having trouble with cap jams. I just ordered some slixshot cones for my Pietta 1860. I havent received them yet. Can't wait to try them. I'm hoping that Winchester # 11's will fit as I'm pretty well stocked with those for my BP rifles . Any suggestions? Will they work ?
Got the slix shots and they made a big difference. I shot 60 rounds and not one jam. BUT,,, the real credit goes to all your good advice, tips and mods, because I had all but given up on my BP pistol as a reliable gun to carry. Thanks to you, my "cheap" Pietta 1860 is now accurate, dependable, and a joy to shoot. I'm confident now to use it as my main carry in the woods. Thank you !
I did not have great luck with slixshot nipples. the winchester and cci caps will be a little loose in my experience. The best thing I found to minimize cap jams is to take a file or even good sandpaper and remove the corners and edges of the safety slot in hammer. I will try to explain but it is difficult to do. What you want to end up with is you want the slot slightly wider at the face of the hammer and narrower at the bottom of the slot. what happens is as the gas drives the cap into the slot it expands the cap so with the slot a little wider at the bottom than the face it grabs the cap, You want to make the face wider than the base of the slot that way it won't grab and hold the cap. Done this to five guns worked with all of them. Good luck
so it chain fires now what happens to you ? and what if the ball hits the bottom of the loading area or don't it line up on the bottom ? stay safe briother
usually only the bottom one is a problem..usually you just dig the lead out..at the worst you will have to sand down the rammer if the impact swelled it and makes it too tight for the channel
I keep both. The 10's can be a royal pain with a Ted Cash capper. The 11's seem to fall off. They are tricky. You might think that they could be concise with the sizes.
First thing I do to a new cap and ball revolver is replace the factory nipples, they are soft, cones sized all over the place, flash hole sizes all over the place, and pretty much junk. I have used them in the past but doesn't take long to wear them out or batter up. I've heard good things about SlixShot nipples, but I've been using Tresso nipples and they are worth every penny. The Tresso's work exceptionally well with Remington #10 or 11's, the Remington #10's work better in my snail capper though.
You're supposed to use #10 caps on revolvers. The #11 are too big and fall off. . .as you experienced. Yes, the #10 are a tight fit, because caps are supposed to be tight!
Allways greese yer chambers. Once I didn't have gun greese so I used wheel bearing greese. Triple check yer caps. If its loose squeeze it slightly. Be safe guys and gals.
Blackie. If you would, or know anything about the high priced Slix Shot or other cones (nipples) could you give an opinion on these items. I refuse to pay 60# bucks for a set of nipples. I stick to the originals with the gun. Granted, on a Colt clone I do rework the hammer nose to stop nipple stick.
slix shot is a very good product...that being said i have only had one set of them..usually i can get stock nipples to work fine with just a bit of tuning
in a chain fire one or more chambers fire..the one in line with the bore the ball goes down the barrel..the others pop out of the cyl. and go beside the barrel..however (and its the most rare to chain fire by the way) the bottom chamber will fire and the ball will hit the loading rammer..the impact often sprays lead and the rammer may have to be turned down to fit properly since the impact may bulge the end of it...granted all of this happens because some loading step was done wrong..or undersize ammo was used..hope this clears it up for ya safe journeys
Why does everyone make this so complicated ??? A tight fitting ball , Lube on the top & Remington #10 caps & THAT'S IT !! IT ISN'T A LONG STORY !!! CHRIST !!!
usually not..if all six go ..the one on bottom fires...it will hit the rammer..and may spread / flair it a bit and need ot the sanded back smooth to work properly
I have to disagree about loose nipples being a cause of chain fire. My reasoning is due to the "Slick Shot" replacement nipples. As you know they have a hole drilled 90 degrees from where the cap sits. If loose nipples were a cause of chain fire, you would think that a hole letting pressure out at 90 degrees and venting that fire into the recess of the nipple area, would cause chain fires. I have yet to meet or hear about anyone having the above problem from slick shot nipples.
slick shot nipple are a different design than factory and most of the problems i have heard or personally seen were with factory nipples...long before slick shot went into production ..in the back of the DIXIE GUN WORKS cat. was a how to to make such nipples yourself..the article said to prevent chain fire remove stock nipples tape threads..chuck in a drill turn like a mini lathe the cones area to a uniform taper..then drill a small hole near the top of each..dixie claimed this was a cure for chain fires
Tapps 47 Blackoracle69 is correct. Most chain fires do occur from the cone end mostly due to caps falling off or very loose fitting caps although loose fitting is why they fall off and cause chain fire. As for your slixshot thing the pressure relief holes you are referring too are covered and sealed by the percussion so fire and spark will not enter an unfired chamber. I have in 45 plus years of black powder shooting had only a handful of chain fires a couple from caps falling off and a couple with me being an idiot and thinking I don't need grease I have a perfect fitting ball which was a big mistake.
only if the table is on fire..other wise i would say no..if a very worn revolver was left at fullcock and the table was hit and the sear tripped..possible..but a revolver just sitting in normal safe position..about as possible as being hit by a metorite
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Knowledge is power!
You had me laughing when you called your first chain fire a “memorable experience” 😂 . Very educational video!
This is the second review/recording I have watched of yours and I am impressed by your knowledge on this subject and the professional way you present things. I look forward to watching more.
thank you..and welcome to the channel..safe journeys
Very helpfull! I am about to try a Pietta .44 cal. New Army. I have greased wads for under the bullet/round ball. I have .454 round ball witch is recommended by Pietta for this pistol. And I have been told more than once to squize the percussion can, I will! Thank you for the video!!!!
it's happened to me twice over the years, once was my fault for loading a undersized ball, the other time I think it was a loose cap.
It suprised me when it happened but it was the next shot in line so it just went down the side of the barrel.
I have watched most of your videos today and wow I have learned do much. I have 6 B/P pistols and now I have a lot of work...Thank You!
i am glad you found the info of use..safe journeys
Hello again mr blackie. this video coupled with your video on correct ball size answered all questions i have regarding this subject. thanks again!
Thanks and very helpful information.
That explanation actually makes a lot of sense. Thanks. I've often wondered about people who swear it's one or the other and refuse to consider that it could be both. The only chain fire I ever had was with blanks and I'm certain mine was from the front end of the cylinder because I was using Cream of Wheat to pack in my powder and not produce a projectile.
Thanks for the benefit of your experiences. I am about the only cap'n'ball shooter in my group here in New Zealand, so it is great to compare notes, as it were.
First thing I do on getting a cap'n'ball revolver is check the cylinder mouth sizes and compare them to the groove size of the barrel (slug it to measure or use an inside mike at the muzzle). I have always found the chambers a bit tight on new reproduction revolvers....I take an expanding reamer and ream them to about a thou bigger than the groove size. This ensures that they are all the same, dead circular and match the bore properly. The amount removed is usually very small to get it right. just a thou or two, and once the reamer is set, doing the other cylinders is quick and easy. Do it by hand, not with a drill or anything... plenty of lube, frequent clearing of chips. Gives a better-than-factory finish, and gets them perfectly round.
I use a 1/16" thick lubed felt wad behind the balls which keeps the fouling soft. I have never (so far) had a chain fire, but they should not happen with perfectly round cylinders and balls about two or three thou larger. My Remingtons use .457" balls which shave just a wee bit off on loading, the chamber mouths being .455+. and the groove size of the Ubertis is .454".
Accuracy is better with this process completed too... :-)
sound wisdom....glad you enjoyed my channel..safe journeys
Blackie - You have explained chain fire very well. I have only one disagreement. Namely DON'T pinch caps that are loose fitting. If the caps are loose fitting, don't use them or find another way to keep them on. I've been shooting since '71, and the ONLY chain fire I've had was when I accidentally bought some #12 caps for a revolver that took #10. ..... I initially pinched them just like you've suggested, but experienced chain fire. And no, one didn't fall off. I finally used those caps up on a rifle, and pinching them in place there worked fine. My brother used another method. He painted wax around the top of the nipples before he placed the caps. That seemed to work also. But long story short, and what I've been saying whenever the subject comes up, chain fire occurs with BOTH loose fitting caps AND balls.
Ensure good fit, both caps and balls, and you should never have to experience a chain fire (Not guaranteeing that, mind you, just saying).
Beyond that, you've explained it very well in language that most should find understandable. Good job.
thank you..i agree most time i pinch its a mere slight oval..the cap fits byitself..#11's..but i find the slight ( and i do mean slight ) pinch adds a tad of friction to keep them on during recoil..thanks for sharing..safe journeys
Could you please explain what happened to your hand when you experience a chain fire? Or what is the worst thing that could happen (injury’s) if one experiences a chain fire with a black powder revolver?
Awesome vid! I chamfered my cylinders which caused ball to compress rather than shave a ring. I was experimenting with long staying loads and had a squid load discharge (failed experiment) and the ball bounced off board and rolled back to me. Had an 1/8th inch compressed band around ball which I did find very interesting as evidence of the seal created. Just my 2 cents. Thanks much!
Great explanation - thanks! Just learned of this phenomenon in some other videos and was frustrated at the lack of explanation of what was going on. 'Til I got your video in the recommended list, that is.
glad you found it of use..safe journeys
I've noticed this with some cylinders that I've reamed. I used a .449 chucking reamer to get my Pietta cylinders right for my .448 barrel grove dimensions. Some chambers show signs of run out as you go deeper with the mouth being pretty concentric. That mouth area is where I place the indicator during set up in my 4-jaw chuck prior to reaming.
Blackie, I have been shooting percussion revolvers since early in the 1950's starting with an original 1851 Navy. Back in the time of DuPont gun powder and corrosive caps. In all that time I have had one single chamber fire and that was an undersized ball that should have been culled. Afterward I checked and the cap was still in place. When I checked the box of, cast by me , balls there were a couple of not so good ones that should have been culled. Whnen I listen to so called experts talk about "pinching" caps to fit I know there is a chain fire waiting to happen.
Good work, good information, keep on shooting.
thanks safe journeys to ya
Right on the money there. You covered the facts and dispersed all the BS that goes around. Thanks for posting.
I had a chain fire my first time out too so don't feel bad man. Mine was only two chambers at the same time, due to a loose cap I believe. So I crimp them slightly and they seem to stay on much better.
I knew chain firing occured, but not the cause or cure. I am just now getting into black powder (have yet to fire a shot, or chain fire several, ha ha), I think i owe you my fingers, as i am sure i now get to keep them. Thanks. Good info.
As before mentioned on another of your videos, great info but I'm going to stop telling you that as your hat size is going to increase. :o)
Interesting notes; Sam Colt emphasized the point of using correct cap and ball sizes during his sales pitches of these revolvers. At the beginning of the pitch he would place a loaded and capped revolver into a bucket of water. At the end of his speech (approx 15 minutes), removing the gun from the water bucket he would fire all six chambers with never a misfire or chain event!
The other interesting fact is, the Colt factory originally didn't include info in the instructions to use any type of grease! That technique came about much later, not by Colt, but by the folks who owned one of these guns. Years later Colt did include that instruction and it first started with conicals (grease grooves as seen on factory made molds) and later on with round balls.
Mentioning paper cartridges, not only were they made with nitrated paper but animal skin, as well as metallic foil, were also used.
One poster inquired about chamfering the mouth of the cylinders: that was a patented, early improvement by Colt to help avoid chain fires and they used a chamfer of approx 2 degrees, so your pistol should already have that,
Oracle69, thanks again for taking the time and effort to bring all this much needed info to the masses!!!!!
thank you for your kind words..safe journeys
Another great video. I have heard, and continue to hear, all kinds of opinions on what causes chain fires. You are the first person that I have seen to actually explain how both ends of the cylinder can cause it to happen and how to avoid it. Your cap & ball series is wonderful. Thanks for all of the great information Blackie.
all your videos are so helpful.
Great information! However I would argue that what is actually not perfectly round is the ball, not the cylinder, given the process of how each are made. Just my thought.
could be right however worked in engineering plus or minus up to 10 thou the norm and yes as he says the initial boring is done with a multi head tool when the tool is getting a lil long in the tooth or itself need s a regrind thwe hole it bores may not be abso round personally now i use a larger calibre ball in all my percussion pistols with either wad or grease
Very good information. What you said makes more sense than about a half dozen other videos I've watched on the subject. If you watch the ring that is made as you load and make note of which chamber, I've noticed a particular chamber makes a different ring then the others. That alone tells me they are not all the exact same. I have a 51 Colt 44. the 451s barely make a ring. This makes me a bit nervous. Never had a chain fire from either end actually and want to keep it that way! I like your advice of using a 457 ball. I use 10 caps instead of 11 and haven't had an issue of a lost cap yet. I look before I fire each shot to be sure. Using 11s even after squezing them have fallen off.
With almost 50 years experience, I have found that incorrect cap size is the main cause of chain fire. If you have to pinch the caps to keep them on then you're using the wrong size cap, (some brands of the same size fit tighter than others btw). Also it is more likely that the projectile is out of round than the chamber. If the ball doesn't leave a ring of lead all the way around you need a larger diameter ball (which will greatly improve accuracy as well). Oh and I don't use lube over the balls. It's not necessary, makes a mess, particularly on hot days. I like the Wonder Wads but they take up space and in my experience affect accuracy to some extent tho not much.
Great advice sir
Thank you for such an informative video. I am new with Black Powder guns. But I grew up handling guns since I was 9 years old. My Dad drilled gun safety into my Brain. Most people have me fucking and weaving as they are showing off their guns. For instance if not for my fucking, there would be a split second it was pointing at me.
But this video impressed me so much because all the Literature with my newly arrived 1860 Colt Army attributed chain fire to powder being ignited in front part of other cylinders. To use wads or grease (Crisco even)
The fact that you discovered that 3 of your cylinders were as much as .002 too big shows that you know your shit and I greatly thank you.
thank you hope you enjoy my channel..safe journeys
Blackie knows his stuff.
Pretty much spot on. One thing I'd add is some of the early ones had poor machining and finishing on the chamber mouths. Some had slight burs that would undersize or scrape a small groove in a ball. Others lacked any kind of chamfer to the chamber mouth. A very slight chamfer on the chamber mouth makes swaging a ball or conical in much more secure. Last new one I saw was several years ago from Taylors, an 1860 and other than a change to quality nipples, needed zero work to get it running rite.
Thanks for sharing Blackie, you are a wealth of knowledge.
I appreciate that
Good info blackie I always use grease or lard but I had never thought about the back i will check the caps from now on I have never had a chain fire knock on wood some good information
Thanks Blackie for posting this. My friend told me he got smaller balls than he actually needed but he's under the impression that if he uses lubed patches around the balls he's okay. I'm not so sure now. I don't think he's fired it yet.
Thanks for the very informative video Blackie !
Really appreciate that information brother!
Another benefit of oversized balls (or bullets) is that it grips the rifling better.
to see that try and push your projectiles through the barrel and see what kind of mark the rifling leaves.
I know that in a particular gun .450 conical engages well with the rifling and .454 ball also does. I wouldn't recommend .450 ball though.
I like your videos.
I am taking my new to me Ruger Old Army out, and I am nervous about chainfire!
Great advice. Thank you
thanks for the great info and your observations.
You go brother.
Glad to see the Open Top.
I thought you was a Remy Man !
lol actually the 58 is the first one i have had..i have had perhaps a 100 colt clones on all makes and sizes
I'm pretty sure he said sympathetic discharge. But did you say systemic discharge. Either one would be correct I guess. And I'm not knocking you on your accent by any stretch of the imagination. I live on the South Shore Boston Massachusetts. And we're known for having heaviest Accents in the state. But that was a beautiful worded statement. Thank you very much for all your videos. I am very excited about to start this new hobby. And I hope to have an action clay video. With these firearms when I get everything dialed then. I am planning on a getting the Remington and a 44 caliber 1851 Colt. I know the cold is not accurate but. I really love the old school Spaghetti Westerns. I am a carpenter and very capable with fixing things I would be interested in any other videos you have on modifying those two weapons to be safer and more reliable. If you ever get a chance or get around to it. Thank you very much I know just making these videos in general takes a lot of time. Once again thank you for your knowledge. And Merry Christmas
Many years ago when I was in the Army my friend and I went to range to fire my confederate Griswald & Gunnison 44. I should have paid closer attention to his loading as he forgot to grease the front of the cylinder. Needless to say he had a triple chain fire. Kind of sounded like a magnum load going off. I also noticed something hitting the dirt in front of him. One round exited the barrel, the second one made a wad cutter out of the lead ball wedging itself perfectly into the loading rod recess. That one came right out with the loading lever. The third was problematic. It hit the barrel wedge cutting the ball in two...that's what I saw hitting the ground in front of him. I never will forget the look on his face. That was the end of that brass frame and cylinder pin. The frame was stretched badly. Called Navy Arms and they replace the frame (complete) and a new barrel wedge for free. The gun was now good as new.
At the time we were using .451 round balls. Now I know better and use .454 balls except in my Riger Old Army which uses .457 balls.
thanks for info
love the videos all off them I'm a civil war remaster and love seeing the videos you do on black powder revolvers would love to see a more in depth video on how you made you hobo fishing kit I want to make one myself
i will add that to the list and try to do a fishing one soon..thanks for the comment safe journeys
Thanks for the info! Its very helpful and I have subscribed
Wow, all your videos are awesome so far. I especially like you Kukri's.
Good Vid, explains a lot
Glad you think so!
This extremely helpful, thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Grease on top of the ball makes a big mess.
I take some BORE BUTTER and put a ring around the top of the cylinder similar to the size of lead ring that the ball would make when pressing a ball in.
Then press the ball in.
The over that ring of grease makes a good seal.
Don’t get generous with the grease, you don’t want to lube the powder, a little is all you need.
Great information
Excellent tutorial Blackie, I too know first hand what chain fire can do, I was hit by a 44 ball from a 1858 Rem. New Army reproduction fired during a blackpowder shoot back in the 1980's. One of the participants had his revolver experience a "sympathetic cylinder fire" as he lowered it and the round ricocheted off the concrete we were standing on and hit me right on the bottom of my ribcage. luckily the shoot was in the fall and I had a heavy jacket on. Also fortunately chain fires don't build up as much pressure behind the round as they would driving it down the barrel so that quicker dissipation of pressure mitigated the force of the round to a degree when it hit me. just thought I'd share my first hand ( and rib) experience. Be safe and happy powder burning.
i once saw a sympathetic cook off as well..at a range in a match the shooter was to fire 2 shots with a revolver..lay it on the tabel run to the next table fire a rifle there and return to finish the cyl..he fired 2 quick shots placed the revolver on table and was half way to the rifle when the revolver cooked off..none hurt but scared the crap out of the range officer
Good vid son. Important info. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Blackie! I typically shoot my round balls with lubricated wads, but my paper cartridges with the Eras Gone bullets are just dipped in a mixture of beeswax and lamb's tallow, (pretty much like the originals). Have you ever experienced, or heard of, a chain fire with paper cartridges made in the traditional way? When shooting the paper cartridges, I usually wipe a little bore butter over the tops of each of them after they are loaded. My thought is if there is a slight gap around the bullet, the lube will lessen the chance. Your thoughts or feedback? Thanks much!!
Great video 👍🏻
Very helpful thanks
Great video. Just got my first black powder gun, a Uberti Remington New Army. Have not fired it. What was the result of your chain fire?
What did the chain fire do to the pistol? I have always wondered about that. Not that the pistol is the main worry here. Just curious.
one went the proper way down the barrel..the other 4 went down both side ..but the final on bulls-eyed the rammer..and did not damage the gun but i had to dig it out of the rammer pocket and clean everything back up
to put the gun back in working order
Thanks. I bet that was a shock and a mess.
well it made one hell of a first impression ..lol
So, I've used this method to check if I had any gaps because I want to make sure I don't get a chain fire the first time I fire my gun, however, I still have gaps in three chambers with .457 round ball and no rings on any chambers when loading. What would your advice be?
I heard somewhere that the folling of the etching in the colt cylinders knocked them out of round.
i know the originals were bar stock cut and milled and no tempering so in that case i am sure a squeeze in a press could get them out of round
Blackie it has been a hard road these last few. I called .451 inferior for revolver loading I still feel it is inferior for revolver Loading and the news here just seems to support my thoughts on.451 being INFERIOR for revolver loading and why it is. So I sent it up the chain of (ad lib).
great vid blackie, but didnt you advise in one of your previous videos to soften the edges of the cylinders with a hand file so that we dont get the ring shaved off any more but that the ball gets sort of sqeezed in the cylinder ?
yes i did at the very front edge ..this will allow more of the lead to be squeezed in and thus produce a better seal..a slight out of round chamber will be help with it as well..thanks for the comment safe journeys
Check out Paul Harrell's video " loading and shooting cap and ball revolvers"
Great vid, Blackie! I don't shoot revolvers, so I had never heard of chain-firing. But I have a Czech made Detonics two-shot 'Gladiator' (kind of a modern black powder derringer). While I don't worry about a chain fire from the front as the barrels are a good four or five inches long, I wonder, if such a gun could set off the second barrel through a nipple issue? What do you think?
I find this helpful. You may have saved me possible grief and pain due to undersized balls. (.440)
I was hoping to share ammunition between my ruger old army and my new 1858 pieta new army.
Thank you !
So can you prevent chain fire even more by using a wad and then top off the ball with bore butter?
The bore butter don't help for chain fires, chain fires happen from the back of the powder charge, Like if a cap falls off the nipple. The flash from one cap can light the other chamber that is missing a cap. Bore butter really helps the bullet threw the barrel and makes it much more accurate.
I just found out that not putting bore butter greatly increases the risk for chain fires.
in my many yrs i have looked at chain fire quite a bit...if the bore is not truly round in the chamber then grease will help fill and prevent flash around the ball..if the cyl chamber walls are in correct round then it would help chain but still helps lube bore to prevent hard fouling..i have seen a chain fire at a match with a 3rd model dragoon where the chamber mouth s were heavly greased..but he had a cap fall off and the round ahead of it fired and boom..i think its just a combination of possible factors..the odds are low but not zero of it happening..and its one of the things we need to be aware of and be careful of..thanks for the comments..safe journeys
Yep, I've had a couple of those. Went to conical and stopped that problem!
On my .36 Pietta, I use a wonder wad over the powder , Can I use a wonder wad over the ball also?
Thanks Blackie for your informative videos. You are one of my top UA-cam go to guys for black powder revolver info. I'm curious though why no manufacturer has made a slightly elastic plastic percussion cap that would fit tight on the nipple and not jam. Any thoughts? Thanks.
actually back in the 70's they tried it..it was a small rubber (?) cap holding the fulmante pellet in side..problem was they would flex and the pellet would fall out so you had a dead cap..they did not last long
How much bore grease do you put in each cyl ? And also i have .454 round balls, i hope those are big enough
What is the Worst that could happen if you experience a chain fire? Is it something to be worried about happening to the point where you dont want to shoot these?
other than you being harmed or some one else .....the danger of the bottom chamber firing and hitting the rammer can do damage to the gun
how much harder is it to seat a .457 vs. a .454" rb?
Blackie, I have a Dragoon & the drum to the barrel clearance is .060 I filed the barrel frame & shorten the 2 pins some. I also shorten the arbor buy now my wedge is all the way in to be snug. I compared the wedge slot to my 2 Walkers & it seems close so there is enough meat for a new wedge to work. The clearance is now .010 I'm not sure a new wedge will help.
Any ideas. THANKS RICK
ok is you base pin full screwed into the frame?..i saw this once before on a new gun..if it is then go with a new wedge..if its at .10 now it should be ok to fire..test and see..go slow..
Thanks and be safe
Thanks for all the videos and sharing information.
Will using a lubricated felt patch after putting in the powder 100% prevent chain fires?
i feel it will make it very very very unlikely..but nothing is 100%
@@blackoracle69 Thanks. Understood that nothing is 100%. That's helpful to know. I'll stop using the messy Crisco in every chamber and use the patches and just relax a little.
Wood putting a glob of Grease into your your bullets and rubbing it around them and then when they get pressed down it would give an extra layer of protection. I mean you already getting briefs and everything on your fingers unless you're using Wonder Wads correct. So it's a greasy process to begin with. But do you think that that would have any benefit. Thank you
it is usually a good idea..but any grease under the ball can effect the powder and make it hang fire or not go off..so a thick waxy lube thats not going to ruin the charge can work in my paper ctgs i often put tiny beads of soy wax in with the powder it will not wet the powder so to speak but will add lube as it goes down bore when fired
Great stuff ! Thanks ! On another topic, have you ever shot a Pietta Pepperbox .36? If so, what do you think?
the pepper box was a gun to respect at card table distance..but much beyond that it was a spray and pray weapon...in my use of percussion revolvers it was too inaccurate for me still it was a fun way to pass a afternoon shooting at big targets
can you fire conical rounds through these black powder revolvers?
Yes... One of the most popular were made by Johnston & Dow.. A single groove conical bullet with combustible paper cartridge.
Great Video Blackie. With my .36 everything seems fine with .375 balls directly on top of powder, nice even shaving all around. Since using wonder wads, if it sits any time at all, the ball works itself up in the chamber to the point it won't stay rammed back down interfering with rotation so I can't get the caps on. Ball too small or am I missing something? Thanks
yep ball too small and charge a tad to big..when you ram you compress which is what you should do..but if charge a bit too big say 25 gr instead of 22 for example..the pressure can unseat( over days and days )a ball thats a tad too small try 380 and see if the rounds stay firm in the long run..thanks for the comment safe journeys
i got a 44 cal steal frame 1851 navy 44cal have 44cal .451 ball ammo and lubed wool wads for 44 .45 and have pyrodex 30 gran pellets with t17 Natural lube 1000 plus , with number 10 caps and a capper etc . will i need anything else too safely shoot this weapon ? should i be realy to go for the first time hitting the rang ? being safe my first time with black powder pistol .. ive used a musket alot .
So the first time you fired your .440 ammo you didn't use wads or grease or a powder overlay of corn meal? you just went with the powder and balls and fired all 6 at the same time? Still have the same gun and the same hand/fingers, etc...? interesting. Now you still don't use protection - just bigger balls? Have you tried the 30 grain pistol pellets? I'm about to use them tomorrow. I suppose I should grease up the holes. I don't care for the mess but didn't use wads or corn meal over them.
He kinda sounds like a Southern Jack Nicholson.
I would kind of expect all chambers going off to destroy or severely damage the gun.
you would think but the ball is so close to the front of the cyl mouth it does not have a chance to gain much speed..and the pressure kinda forces the ball to flow out of the way like a pillow being pushed against a wall corner..then the pressure is release once the balls out of the way..the only place it can cause bad trouble is the one on the bottom since the rammer is in the way..i saw a friends 1860 chain fire and the ball hit the rammer hard enough to swell it and stick it in place ..it was tough getting it free and had to sand in down to fit back in the gun
Were chain fires common during the Civil War and/or in the early years of the Old West?
not really..they are spoken of but when they do its much the same as we speak of a lightning strike near us..we have heard of it..but very few will have it happen
Blackie we are family we are both part Thomas
Question
.... I just rebuilt my 1851.. everything works smoothly untill I cap it.... I have to pull the hammer back push it in toward the cap and then rotate. If I actually shoot it or it's empty I don't have that problem
What part could be affecting me. The hammer face,?
Should be an easy fix.
could be the hand hang up in its channel or the legs of the bolt..when you fire they jump past those quick but when you cycle by hand they drag or hang up
I've been considering getting my first percussion revolver but I am having serious second thoughts about personal safety. Too many instances of accidents and sloppy manufacturer of the reproductions for my taste. Am I being too paranoid? Never had a problem loading and firing thousands of metalic cartridges and shotshells.
today with the cowboy action shooter..a modern made percussion revolver cant afford to cut corners..the guns have to be good rugged and reliable as far as their design allows them to be...if they dont..the shooters will drop them and no sales....having been shooting replicas for 40 yrs i have watched the industry grow and greatly improve..my advice to you is do your homework..learn the hows and why of loading and proper safety..i would suggest the remington design as a first gun since its is closer to our modern guns with its solid frame..hope this helps..safe journeys
I don't believe there is such a thing as a properly fitting cap.
Is it a good idea to chamfer the opening at the loading end of the cylinder on a new CB revolver? If so how so? Is .457 too large a ball for Pietta New Army or is .454 preferrable? Thanks.
.454 usually works fine
Howdy again, I followed your advice in the BP revolver series and have cleaned up all the wire edges and checked it out for defects in the crown ect.. Been having trouble with cap jams. I just ordered some slixshot cones for my Pietta 1860. I havent received them yet. Can't wait to try them. I'm hoping that Winchester # 11's will fit as I'm pretty well stocked with those for my BP rifles
. Any suggestions? Will they work ?
they can be a big help
hope it fixes your problem..safe journeys
Me too ,Thanks.
Got the slix shots and they made a big difference. I shot 60 rounds and not one jam. BUT,,, the real credit goes to all your good advice, tips and mods, because I had all but given up on my BP pistol as a reliable gun to carry. Thanks to you, my "cheap" Pietta 1860 is now accurate, dependable, and a joy to shoot. I'm confident now to use it as my main carry in the woods. Thank you !
I did not have great luck with slixshot nipples. the winchester and cci caps will be a little loose in my experience. The best thing I found to minimize cap jams is to take a file or even good sandpaper and remove the corners and edges of the safety slot in hammer. I will try to explain but it is difficult to do. What you want to end up with is you want the slot slightly wider at the face of the hammer and narrower at the bottom of the slot. what happens is as the gas drives the cap into the slot it expands the cap so with the slot a little wider at the bottom than the face it grabs the cap, You want to make the face wider than the base of the slot that way it won't grab and hold the cap. Done this to five guns worked with all of them. Good luck
Blackie would you recommend a .380 ball, or a .375 ball for a .36 Navy Colt?
usually a 375..but if the rifling is a little odd or wavy then the 380 may grip better..i usually start with .375 and go up if the need shows up
so it chain fires now what happens to you ? and what if the ball hits the bottom of the loading area or don't it line up on the bottom ? stay safe briother
usually only the bottom one is a problem..usually you just dig the lead out..at the worst you will have to sand down the rammer if the impact swelled it and makes it too tight for the channel
blackoracle69 must kick like hell
lo well you do know it went off..thats a fact
blackoracle69 lol
You can actually rent a bore reamer and clean these up if you're into such behaviors... :D
Why do the Italian revolvers call for a #11 cap but a 10 will fit. The 11 needs to be pinched. I have found.
the nipples are made to hit a certain price point per unit..thus they can be size diffreance from one to another..i usually buy 11's
I keep both. The 10's can be a royal pain with a Ted Cash capper. The 11's seem to fall off. They are tricky. You might think that they could be concise with the sizes.
First thing I do to a new cap and ball revolver is replace the factory nipples, they are soft, cones sized all over the place, flash hole sizes all over the place, and pretty much junk. I have used them in the past but doesn't take long to wear them out or batter up. I've heard good things about SlixShot nipples, but I've been using Tresso nipples and they are worth every penny. The Tresso's work exceptionally well with Remington #10 or 11's, the Remington #10's work better in my snail capper though.
You're supposed to use #10 caps on revolvers. The #11 are too big and fall off. . .as you experienced. Yes, the #10 are a tight fit, because caps are supposed to be tight!
Allways greese yer chambers. Once I didn't have gun greese so I used wheel bearing greese.
Triple check yer caps. If its loose squeeze it slightly. Be safe guys and gals.
That gun, chain fired? And it is still usable? Then what did it do ? And you still have a gun hand !
Blackie. If you would, or know anything about the high priced Slix Shot or other cones (nipples) could you give an opinion on these items. I refuse to pay 60# bucks for a set of nipples. I stick to the originals with the gun. Granted, on a Colt clone I do rework the hammer nose to stop nipple stick.
slix shot is a very good product...that being said i have only had one set of them..usually i can get stock nipples to work fine with just a bit of tuning
blackoracle69 thanks Blackie. I just can't afford the 10 bucks a nipple. I've never had any trouble with stock ones.
doesnt the chainfire shoot of the barrel? how do the balls escape?
in a chain fire one or more chambers fire..the one in line with the bore the ball goes down the barrel..the others pop out of the cyl. and go beside the barrel..however (and its the most rare to chain fire by the way) the bottom chamber will fire and the ball will hit the loading rammer..the impact often sprays lead and the rammer may have to be turned down to fit properly since the impact may bulge the end of it...granted all of this happens because some loading step was done wrong..or undersize ammo was used..hope this clears it up for ya safe journeys
Why does everyone make this so complicated ??? A tight fitting ball , Lube on the top & Remington #10 caps & THAT'S IT !! IT ISN'T A LONG STORY !!! CHRIST !!!
Leave the Lord's name out of it! No, it all!
Does chain fire ruin the gun ?
usually not..if all six go ..the one on bottom fires...it will hit the rammer..and may spread / flair it a bit and need ot the sanded back smooth to work properly
I have to disagree about loose nipples being a cause of chain fire. My reasoning is due to the "Slick Shot" replacement nipples. As you know they have a hole drilled 90 degrees from where the cap sits. If loose nipples were a cause of chain fire, you would think that a hole letting pressure out at 90 degrees and venting that fire into the recess of the nipple area, would cause chain fires. I have yet to meet or hear about anyone having the above problem from slick shot nipples.
slick shot nipple are a different design than factory and most of the problems i have heard or personally seen were with factory nipples...long before slick shot went into production ..in the back of the DIXIE GUN WORKS cat. was a how to to make such nipples yourself..the article said to prevent chain fire remove stock nipples tape threads..chuck in a drill turn like a mini lathe the cones area to a uniform taper..then drill a small hole near the top of each..dixie claimed this was a cure for chain fires
yes i recall that. personally oi only seen one chain fire. it was due to ball and powder loading no wadding.
Tapps 47 Blackoracle69 is correct. Most chain fires do occur from the cone end mostly due to caps falling off or very loose fitting caps although loose fitting is why they fall off and cause chain fire. As for your slixshot thing the pressure relief holes you are referring too are covered and sealed by the percussion so fire and spark will not enter an unfired chamber. I have in 45 plus years of black powder shooting had only a handful of chain fires a couple from caps falling off and a couple with me being an idiot and thinking I don't need grease I have a perfect fitting ball which was a big mistake.
i use .451. ive measured the balls with my mic. and found they verry .004 to .005 plus or minus. none of them are the same
hi, i read somewhere on internet that a black powder revolver shot by itself, while safely laying on the table, is it possible?
only if the table is on fire..other wise i would say no..if a very worn revolver was left at fullcock and the table was hit and the sear tripped..possible..but a revolver just sitting in normal safe position..about as possible as being hit by a metorite
thanks for an answer, would you reccomend remington 1858 or cattleman 1873 uberti cap and ball?
the 58 has a lot going for it..the easy drop out cyl and easy change to .45 colt and back again.. really sold me
thanks, greetings from Poland, where only cap and ball are allowed without a permit
with proper training and skill..you loose little to modern firearms for the first 6 shots..
Rule number one the guy at the gun shop.probably doesn't know mutch about Black powder guns