Vinland Saga & Masculinity
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- Опубліковано 17 чер 2023
- Vinland Saga touches on a lot of things. Religion, the nature of war, trauma associated with these lifestyles, and I think an underrated aspect is how the concept of masculinity effects characters like Thorfinn, Canute, or even Olmar.
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It's also worth mentioning that the "I have no enemies" line actually became a trend for a time and is genuinely the first time in a long time that I've seen a meme actually promote and perpetuate something positive and uplifting, not that I mind memes being monkey brain fun for the sake of monkey brain fun but just that it's nice to see something genuinely healthy for a change
Nihilism, or stuff similar to it in media and online, is kinda becoming over saturated, and what was once the break from the norm is becoming what it used to stand out from.
And not so long after we went from "I have no enemies" trend to "lol rip submarine" let's make fun of someone's death trend.
@@erevinwinterYeah, we're kinda messed up lol
I can't believe we skipped 6 months with Vinland Saga. It was so peaceful I didn't notice time flys.
Frfr
The interesting thing about season 1 was that when they killed villagers, the protagonist of that part was a girl whose family was murdered in front of her. The view changed to her to show people that killing is not good.
It was also amazing that in the beginning, Ketil was shown to be a nice man and his son was a pathetic person, while in the end it was proven that no matter what, the father was still a slave owner and Olmar was the real man.
When thorfinn asks snake "are you sure you really tried?" I've started asking myself that every time I'm in an argument with my wife or a friend. Have i really tried to say and do everything i possibly can to build an understanding and solve problems?
Vinland saga was lucky to get a good adaptation because seinen mangas are not lucky with a getting a proper anime.
Isn't "Monster" a seinen? I seem to recall that people love that adaptation.
@@Regenmacher175its good but its a 1 to 1 of the manga. Vinland saga adds a beautiful score and additional scenes while still sticking to the vibe of the source material.
Berserk 😢
Great video , masculinity is absolutely a core theme of vinland , as it is very closely associated with violence and how people are pushed to it , the main central theme , which everything connects to.
Just a small nitpick on how Ketil works , Ketil never really preached peace , quite the opposite , he hid that part of him that hated and feared it and what he tried to show to the world is that he is that powerful masculine figure , he is too afraid to refuse beating the kids and pretends to have been a powerful warrior in the past. That is the facade. He fears emasculation and ostracization above all else. And eventually with enough pressure and insecurities piling up he tries to live up to that facade. He beats Arnheid because everything else has made him feel like a sucker , weak and pathetic , he does it to feel powerful and in control.
If he was a true man he would have emphatically refused to beat anyone as a punitive measure. It would take true courage to deny the world and the people around you. To refute violence and strong arm others of your party to do the same. To truly preach peace and uphold the values of non-violence. That's the paradox of traditional masculinity. That to be able to truly claim a strong will and heart of courage one needs to be able to stand against the world to uphold your moral values. It is only cowards that capitulate to societal demand to conform, even if that conformity is one that demands brutality and antipathy. To treat others with kindness and empathy. To be full of love towards the world and humanity. To defend the marginalized and protect the weak. Those are the qualities of a true man.
I think the "rule of cool" aspect of season 1 works in the shows favor even if it was unintentional thing by the creators since it helps to show how probably a lot of the warriors see battle and season 2 shows these same things but through outside perspective and how terrifying and wrong these things we saw from S1 were all along.
I think it was also good to work as a sort of lure and eventual rug pull for people going in expecting your typical viking story. The whole first season culminates in Askeladd handily defeating Thorfin in a final duel, bare handed, before sitting down and explaining to him how his whole quest for revenge was stupid and immature. A quest born from a lack of perspective, a perspective Askeladd tries to offer having personally experienced successfully having his revenge and still being left empty, bitter, and broken. But Thorfin doesn't listen. Not until Askeladd dies and years pass for his words to sink deep into Thorfin's mind does he have a change of heart and start on the path to become a "true warrior." I feel like everyone who was disappointed with the 2nd season is still there with Thorfin in the snow after hearing Askeladd's tale. Kicking and screaming about not getting their revenge. Not getting their catharsis through the battles and violence of the show. Completely missing the understanding we're meant to reach through hearing Askeladd's tale. Not truly seeing this failed, bitter soul share their tale of contempt and rage and the eventual emptiness it left them with. But for those of us who stayed, we get to witness some of the most beautiful storytelling about filling in that emptiness. Askeladd died an empty man, but Thorfin, through the people he finds himself with, found the courage and will to fill it with love. That's what I really think Season 2 is about anyway.
Vinland saga is legitimately the pure meaning of mascuilnity by being at peace yet not weak and able to fight and able to maintain peace within your family and protect and provide for them
masculinity and fatherhood are big themes in vinland. great video keep it up.
This video was so good at dissect and describe the whole theme and the characters. So well done!
This was an amazing video that tackled one of the series' biggest appeals in the best way possible. The Silent Hill 2 BGM was the icing on the cake. Keep up the good work Asa! Have a nice day!
Absolutely incredible video, as usual.
What a great video, I love your point about Ketil only preaching peace when it doesn’t threaten his authority. I feel like this went over most peoples heads when watching I’m glad you pointed this out
I like how as Thorfin continues more and more towards his father's ideal of a "true warrior" he gets more and more Christ-like. It's interesting the perspective Vinland Saga shares over Christianity and Religion. Obviously Christianity and Religion are big themes in the show, but it's a unique perspective that usually is atypical of religious depiction, especially with Christianity. Usually Christian media is very propaganda like and also ascribes to more "traditionally" masculine values. Albeit with a more tempered view on violence than the vikings and their belief in Valhalla. But I think one thing Vinland Saga really wants to implore on it's readers is that, as a political machine, Christianity, (more specifically the Catholic church), does utilize and mandate violence. While Christ himself is a pacifistic figure, very much in line with the ideals of a "true warrior," the church itself is not. The church when acting alongside or as the state demands a monopoly on violence, (as most states do). But this is antithetical to Christ's teachings of peace and global love. Maybe sounds like something familiar with some current events? Anyhow, I just think it's really cool that we're getting a Christ tale for the modern age that is less about suffering and penance and more about upholding the values of peace and love in spite of a cruel world. It's that and a viking story that posits that strength doesn't come from domineering force but unconditional love for your fellow man.
great video! if you continue to read vinland saga and catch up it would be awesome to see you cover it more.
Absolutely fantastic video
I hadn't made the connection between being a true warrior and masculinity, but loved the way you developed that topic through the different characters.
Love this!
Amazing video
Great video
I thank you for this insight
Wow. Thank you so much
I'm so glad this video exists, there's so little discussion about how Vinland Saga is an exploration of the patriarchal expactations placed on men and their destructive results, and it baffles me because its such a central part of the story its pretty much impossible to ignore.
Avatar the last airbender also displays it.
I will say that there is a misunderstanding, by definition thors and thorfin are the true stoics. Stoics is all about love and understanding that there is no reason to hate anyone, love everything love all. Stoicism us the love philosophy. Being manly, rich, rude, etc, is the modern way, taths wrong and is called "broicism", something near andrew tate, grow big, take cold showers senseless shit.
If you love everything. Then you love nothing
Stoicism is a branch of philosophy, and like with all philosophies stoicism has an array of meaning, some even right out contradictory.
@@wombat4583 I mean there are right and wrong interpretations of philosophy. If I call myself an active nihilist, for example, but refuse to grow or create my own meaning in life, I'm not actually adhering to that philosophical idea.
@@mockingbird4346 Sure, within the scopes of their intended context. Stoicism, however, is a branch and therefore by itself doesn't adhere to one set list of rules. I guess broadly we can say it's a study of maximizing happiness/reducing negativity but what that means within context (of the many people who explore this) differ drastically.
Good analysis
Thanks for tha video
i feel like olmars image on what it means to be a man is the most amazing piece of writing i've seen, his character is genuinely perfect. he experiences war and murdering people, not to relish in it or enjoy it, but he fears it and hates the idea after experiencing it. he looks up to thorfinn who has experienced years of bloodshed and now seeing him in the season 2 state he looks up to him. hes sees a man who doesnt want to hurt or take away from people, he sees his definition of a proper man, kind hearted and strong mentally and physically. not with an ego of strength or how much hes killed.
Perfect timing as Guy Ritchie’s - The Covenant just dropped for $6 rent on YT. Quite a fascinating look on life, humility, and the necessity for/ of self authorship. I think thats why Japanese words such ad Ikigai and Jyuda hit so hard, because of how encompassing they are in the definitions of what they embrace.
Vinland saga is one of the few anime that really resonates with me both at a personal & emotional level. it's really sad that most people entirely missed the point of season 2. VS was about self-discovery & learning from adversity. i find it very beautiful how revolutionary & counterculture this story is.
some of its themes are still very relevant to this day, we live in a world were war & violence gets romanticize & harmful gender stereotypes/sexist attitudes are still reinforced in parts of the world. i find this story to be a fresh breath of air among most newer anime.
i struggle alot with anxiety and low self-esteem. I also grew up with an abusive & cruel father who reminds me alot like Andrew Tate or a person that embodies toxic masculinity.
I was like Olmar in some point of my life.. constantly seeking for others approval or validation based on accepted behaviour or trends. thorfinn's ideology despite not being possible or realistic has taught me to try & believe in what you stand for. regardless of what others think. Stepping outside the norm & following your own path is why I find this show to have such a huge impact in my life
real
Look can we all agree that we are just waiting for Hild to show up in season 3. i love her so much such a great foil and character at the same time. cannot wait for her
Torfin my goat.
celcius da vimlan readar????
@@MoppetMage trueueue!
That Silent Hill 2 Music
I love this video, but I actually believe that ThorFinn being emotional is far far more stoic than Canute’s behavior. Canute doesn’t communicate his emotions outside of a few instances because he wants to be viewed as and have the idea that he is powerful. In reality, this is the opposite of stoicism and I think Thorfinn is on the path to real stoicism: feeling your emotions so that they don’t affect your behavior.
"I have no enemies"
-Thorfinn
just one criticism season 2 finale things got resolved too easily,other than that season 2 was amazing, Shame some people still defend keitl
Tell that to thorfinns face
Wtf are you talking about? Thorfinn went through hell to achieve that and canute was wrestling with it morally with himself the entire season.
@@jokerman9623 i don't mean throfinn's side.
For canute's retainers to not say much and just accept it non-chalantly when it was already per-established how hard it is to wrestle control.
This isn't fantasy where power difference can guarantee control.
The withdrawal without any backlash and then just brief description of canute suddenly seemingly able to control england peacefully just seemed far fetch.
I dunno kinda felt shoneny with how canute just flipped with speech from thorfinn
@@MrTimeattackerbut they still narrate that Canute ends up losing resources for his decision to not raid farms, its not like there isn't any consequence to his decision. But yeah I do agree that Cannute's sudden change in decision feels a bit far fetched but still understandable since he had the same idea when he became the prince last season. The first season too had this sudden abrupt change with Cannute's character.
Although the series has people mostly learning better ways than their upbringing as men taught them, I don't know what it takes to do that and definitely be talking about positive masculinity and better male role models as opposed to life lessons applicable to anyone who unlearns this mindset. Also toxic patriarchal shit is much more common among women than many make out and is often just plain toxic masculinity in itself!
I think it's not that it defines healthy masculinity but that it shows better male role models and how to grow out of toxic masculinity. It's not inherent to men or even masculine people but it is directed at them.
We're nonbinary and basically men anyway, just don't think there's a point to having a solid concept of healthy masculinity. I mean for a start toxic masculinity even in the most feminist usage possible is still a misnomer. People end up conflating the socialised behaviours and way of networking by putting down men based on conformity with self image and stuff, and can easily treat something someone does out of self defence (eg not buying feminine products to avoid insults) with forcing that mindset on others.
Masculinity on its own is more superficial than that, separate to gender roles it's more ways of expressing yourself in ways that are gendered, whenever someone tries to make it the social behaviour as well it pisses me off cause they're usually making a point about masculinity being inherently patriarchal and oppressive as if we don't use it to mean shit like short hair and beards more often than not.
You believe that all behavioral differences between men and women women are entirely based on nurture and never nature?
Looks like someone's feelings got hurt. Yes, while anyone touting about masculinity being inherently toxic is not worth listening to that doesn't change the fact most male role models are awful and as such poison the collective idea of what it means to be a man.
I appreciate the progressiveness style incorporated into your videos. It’s very creative to parallel anime like Oshi no ko, 2/3 of my hero, and Vinland saga to modern day society. Keep doing a good job man.
God i love to talk about this, vinland saga really helped me to define what it means to be a man
Ah season 2 Thorfin aka literal Jesus Christ
Why do you sound like Moistcritikal?
born that way
Teenagers when they discover another person with a deep voice
anyone else thinks this guy sounds like moist?
Are you related to Moistcritical by any chance?
FUCK YEAH 🎉🎉🎉🎉 VINLAND SAGA VIDEO
And it's up too your high standards
Great video dude
Thought this was a penguin bideo
I thought I was the only one lol
What truly annoys me is the fact that everyone overlooks the connection between Thorfinn's "feminist masculinity" and his enjoyment of reading or listening to the Bible. People often dismiss the Bible as a terrible book that holds no value in today's world, neglecting the fact that it contains the ideal of treating your enemies with kindness, which is something we all strive for today. It's frustrating how the Bible is often disregarded as an outdated book when it actually contained progressive ideas hundreds of years ago.
The issue is you can read pretty much any idea from the Bible depending on what you read, like Jesus was the first socialist, nearly every principle he espoused was socialist or leftist leaning.
But at the same time we can't ignore the parts where God told his armies to kill everyone but the female children so they could rape them.
In actuality Thorfinn's love of reading the Bible is a nod to a cultural shift in which vikings began to consider Jesus another of their gods, believing that he was the God in Valhalla charged with teaching warriors when peace was necessary.
Exactly! Yes, there are dated Biblical views, but take with a grain of salt and find the real wisdom and it's a worthwhile historical document.
I dont belive in Toxic masculinity but reather peaple being generally toxic since most of the traits dont associate with masculinity but is rather peaple misunderstanding masculinity and falling for temptation.
What? Toxic masculinity refers to specifically things men do and are that end up being harmful to themselves and people around them.
@@anitaremenarova6662 Why make up a term that makes masculinity sound bad though? Have you ever heard of toxic feminity? I garantee you that nobody has said that word but that doesnt mean that women are saints, many women have done atrocities.
@@anitaremenarova6662 And gender is not the defining trait in how peaple behave because there are plenty of women who act in a toxic masculine way in the way peaple describe it.
Bob just ran me over with his car,
I‘ve tried explaining to others that Vinland Saga is inherently feminist in its core message for months now and struggled because most people don‘t really understand what feminism actually is. They only hear „toxic masculinity“ and immediately think it means „men bad“, when in reality, toxic masculinity hurts men, too. Now I don‘t have to spend hours explaining it all to others because I can just send them this video instead. It‘s genuinely incredible how much you managed to say in just 8 minutes. I‘ve watched a lot of video essays about Vinland Saga, but I think this is the best one.
The idea of being kind , humble and caring is not feminine in anyway shape or form
None of this is feminist, especially not contemporary style.
It very much is compared to the old idea of what a man should be: powerful, ruthless and self-serving.
@@anitaremenarova6662 it doesn’t become “feminist” in the slightest. U remove any nuance from the topic and paint feminism as the good and masculinity as the bad when u make the this “comparison” by honing in on a mere fraction of what makes it.
@@lo-lifecntral2789 This is literally feminist. Just because you don't understand what feminism is and dislike the idea that it's objectively correct, doesn't make it not feminist.
Like half of this is *literal* feminist theory.
I lo e how this show does not destroy maculinity but rather it shows you how to be a real man istead of linstenig to andrew tate and other toxic i fluencers liste to this show
More like peakland saga
I disagree with it being a social construction. Reason being if it was due to society you would see it being displayed vastly different in all the societies Overall time period however however we do not see that you see it displayed very similar throughout all time in all societies.
I thought this was moist critical for a sec
it's not a social construct
It very much is. If you kept a male in a padded room with minimal human interaction their behavior and looks would be completely different from how men molded by society are.
@@anitaremenarova6662 The rough outline of masculinity is defined by biological traits, what changes across societies are the more surface level aspects. It's mainly biological.
He would become a mad man lol.
women in iceland were strong. this feminine thing is abit stump. idk how this can make sense.
*A True Man...*
Iron Fist Ketil.
💀
Bro did not understand the show
oh my god, you couldn't geit more wrong.
Vinland saga is all about masculinity & stoicism, but it shows from start what happens when someone deviates from that path. Doesn't scream on the face, what strong, what a true warrior is. And your modern interpretation is that is displaying "bad masculinity" "patriarcal" and stuff. But you miss everything that the autor is trying to say.
no im trueing
Wrong Thors is based
imagine starting a series about Vikings and being faced with steaming woke shit
ok im imagining it. ok its based
I’m hitting myself
You do know every piece of media is woke due to every piece of media having political aspect about it.
Everyday j check to see if you've uploaded arc 7 phase 6 🥹🥹