I think Forms that are actually different should be the exception. Like sandslash/sandslash alola should be allowed on the same team. But if someone tried to get away with Keldeo and Keldeo R which are literally the same pokemon and you can use secret sword on both, nah.
@@pokeaimMD you can't, Keldeo resolute can't be traded in Gen V, you have to delete Secret Sword and revert it back to regular form to trade it and, afaik, there's no way to teach it the move in BW1
It's funny because it is a bad example imo. One of the reasons lando is so good is because of role compression, having so many options on one pokemon (immunity to ground and electric, rocks, intimidate, etc)
That being said, Lando-T is a classic example of 5 move slot syndrome. It can do a ton of things overall, but it can only do so much with one set. Having two Lando-T on a team wouldn't be unviable or even feel that repetitive imo.
@@jamesdinius7769 I don't see how using zygarde + zydog is too different from something like kadabra + alakazam though tbh (which is something I saw a fairly high level BW player use successfuly)
@Darth Hydreigon Bruh why do pokemon fans do this.... Doesnt matter why dude, it freaking STUPID. Pokemon fans think a freakin fictional word controls real life people Bruh HUMANS make the games they can make what ever rules they want so what are you even talking about?
in gen 1 anything goes, a tier so bad nobody wants to play it. The main strategy is just 6 mewtwos, you might see 4 or 5 mewtwos with a couple of mews but you can really just pull up with 6 ice beem mewtwos and attempt to outfreeze the opponents 6 mewtwo team (freeze based meta is why nobody wants to play the tier lol)
Also toxapex would be incredibly annoying to face multiple of because many teams just accept they'll get somewhat worn down by it as they break through it, but having 2 would prob mean needing dedicated counters like offensive roost Zapdos on your team so you wouldn't just run out of steam before you can break both of them
this, stall teams in gen 8 are already toxapex focused to the point were its almost a fault, so many of their games are decided by scald burns and if pex gets crit or not because its just too important. Having two toxapex means that not only can you have one defensive and one specially defensive but it reduces the weight put onto one single toxapex so it does not have to preform as well. Plus the best abitily to synergize with regenerator, is another regenerator so the pexs themselfs have synergy with eachother; its not like your just running a back up toxapex as they can both be active players.
just run gking, and if you can afford gking+ferro its even better, like what are you gonna do, pp stall pex? then just switch one of gkings move to psychic and bam
Just wanted to mention this but if both of your dupe pokemon dont have nicknames the only thing telling them apart is their health. If you get regenerator pokemon that can heal easily you could pull off some crazy baits
Fun fact: this used to be allowed in Balanced Hackmons until someone proved its brokenness with a team of 6 Primal Kyogres (having your whole team weak to Electric and Grass doesn't matter when you got the entire movepool of the game and every non-broken ability at your disposal).
Nat Dex Anything Goes player checking in: having multiple Arceus forms is extremely solid just because nothing walls quite like defensive Arceus sets. There are no walls in Pokemon that come close to the walling prowess of a defensive Arceus set sans maybe Primal Groudon (whom can be worn down due to lack of recovery), and honestly given the tiers power level you kinda need that level of defensive power. The sweeper sets are fine and are also worth considering, but something like Arceus Steel + Arceus Water makes for an incredible defensive core that most teams will struggle to break. It helps a lot that even defensive Arceus sets are not passive at all, thanks to 120 offenses, high BP stab moves, and good ole plate. This is important because you really don't want to be a passive wall in AG (hence why Giratina-A sees little to no play even in ubers, despite the monstrous bulk and defensive typing). The main reason species clause exists is to prevent the game from becoming too matchup reliant. If you can stack 2 or 3 copies of , then you force the opponent to not only have a check for one of said sweeper, but multiple of them. Given how difficult it already is to build a team that accounts for all the meta threats, trying to account for cheeky players trying to score easy wins by stacking threats is just not healthy for the meta.
@@webbowser8834 well I wouldn’t say a mon who can counter extreme killer if built for it has a more favorable matchup vs baton pass thanks to infiltrator can fullfill a lot of the task pex does while being immediately threatening thanks to super fang is entirely out classed by giratina. Also having a ground immunity can be quite nice when primal groundon is around. It’s not the worst thing to use in anything goes and heck I’d personally say in anything goes in particular it’s better then pex ( in large part due to super fang and the presence of baton pass as well as tailwind)
Another layer of depth when using multiple of the same species is that you can make your opponent guess. For example, having both a special and a physical Dragopult, and making your opponent guess which side of the attacking spectrum you will utilize. I think that would be really interesting.
Wouldn't the better pokemon be the ones that have the most shaky checks it would be annoying just because even after you show both sets there is no way outside of hp levels to tell which one you sent out
I was thinking this but for different reasons. If a pokemon has shaky checks, your opponent can check one of a pokemon but can it check multiple of them? It's a similar concept to something like a monotype offensive team.
That's what sd espeed arceus did last gen, get a couple of them with a different coverage move and you can power thru checks. This tends to be the case with a lot of offensive pokemons like Xerneas. In general you want smt that forces an immediate answer or forces a lot of switch outs, scarf lele and scarf kart are good examples, scarfers are especially great because there's no way of knowing when the scarfer is out or when it's another set. Heatran as well or even dual fini work. Overpowering checks isn't a new strat, it's just much more easily done with multiple of the same mons.
Brings me back to the days of gen 7 AG where a bot named "Morganna Mode Birb" spammed six Staraptor and actually had an alright win rate. To counter, I made a team of six Tapu Koko, and gave them mostly unique sets to check different things. Surprisingly, most people only carry one or two counters for a specific threat, so once that counter is gone, a lot of teams just get mowed down by Specs E-Terrain Thunderbolts or Banded Wild Charge. With USUM, I also got access to Defog, which meant my stallbreaker Koko was EVEN BETTER. Bonus: My PDon check was SO GOOD; I had Flyinium-Z Koko with Protect to bait out the Precipice Blades and retaliate with Z-Mirror Move. That gives me +2 Attack and a Ground-Z move to OHKO PDon, which means they now have to deal with a boosted Koko spamming Wild Charge and Brave Bird that can also bait out attacks to Mirror Move back. It was my greatest idea of all time, and I ended up around 1600 on gen 7 AG before quitting for the summer.
i think this concept is somewhat similar to rain teams, where the goal is to overwhelm the opponent with powerful and fast water type attacks. with that in mind, i think it might be worth exploring the idea of *running* *the* *same* *set* on both pokémon. switching into choice band weavile is a nightmare - it’s fast, so it will almost always chunk something before going down. now, imagine taking out a weavile, and you’re suddenly staring down ANOTHER banded triple axel. being able to run the same pokémon means that fast offense can just overpower its checks
Different regional forms should be treated like the different Pokemon that they are. They have different types and movesets. They're basically the modern version of Vileplume and Bellossom. If their forms can be freely switched in-game, then they should count as the same Pokemon.
You should've addressed some extremely similar mons that do or don't share teams together. For instance, Latios and Latias have some interesting teams together across various generations (usually with one running defensive/utility/setup and the other going offensive), but mons like Blissey and Chansey or Slowbro and Slowking don't show up on teams together (which makes sense, they're filling a defensive role twice).
There is also another point to make on two same mons: Your opponent doesn't necessarily know which one is in the field if they haven't chipped them. I noticed the importance of that when I was running a 4 zacian team in AG, as the opponent had to guess which coverage I had everytime I switched out. It gets even worse with other things like multiple dittos, where they have to guess wether you are the scarfed one or the bright powder one lol
One thing that may be relevant when having two of the same mons on the team is that your opponent does not know which of the two you have on the field. It would be horrible to have to account for two different sets for the entire game when facing down a lando even after the sets have already been revealed.
Fortunately, Showdown gives out the relevant known information for each pokemon whenever they're on the field, so we just have to hover our mouse to the pokemon to keep track of their sets.
I think it wouldn't be broken, but toxic. If there are 2 mons, you'd have 0 indication as to which one is which. Examples of this already exist, in LC Abra can be Focus Sash or Life orb, playing around one makes it weak to the other. You can guess which Lando they have on their team, but with 3 Landos it can get stupid. You want to absorb toxic but they swords dance instead. Other game you wanna damage the setuper, but it's bulky and sets up SR. It's just stupid. However, letting it happen could be fun. I bet some strategies would just overpower any defense though, like 6 banded Kartanas or sth.
@@Rose-ez7yn no because u need a regular Greninja on the start of the battle to become the ash one, if u wanna a less arbitrary u can just make that only other regions forms can be used at the same time.
Video Idea: What would happen if team preview never existed. Would there be a lead metagame like gen 4? What would that look like? Would be see more gimics arise from not knowing what pokemon could come next. For example, Illusion nonsense or pokemon like shedinja.
I remember back in XY my cousin and I would use Dual Zards in the battle maison. Mega X and Y compliment each other pretty well. One is immune to the others earthquake and Drought helps X’s flareblitz. If 2 megas were ever possible in anything that’s not multis Dual Zards wouldn’t be horrible
One thing I’d like to mention in regards to this would be if Megas came back, what it would be like to see is double Charizard cores, with teams being able to Mega the one that fits the matchup better. Similarly, I think Species Clause should be adjusted to account for separate forms.
Then what about a Pokémon that takes so much time to set up and is never worth it, like a Ledian cup or a Delibird cup? Ledian cup would be evasion against Fire Punch, Delibird would be truly uniform.
I think it would be overbearing its similar to the strategy of spamming one type to break throught a check with sheer number and then run over your opponent . Bird and ghost spam existed for a reason
100% usage Landorus-T would still not be up for an Ubers Ban btw xD Jokes aside, the Only motivation for not using the species clause is the "One is difensive and One attacking" which looks a bit broken
No species clause would make powerful offensive mons that could already choose their counters/checks an even bigger nightmare to deal with. Imagine having to play the guessing game vs a team with 2 Weaviles.
There might be some potential on dedicated weather teams to run multiple weather setters for consistency. Having two Tyranitars on a sand team, one and a lead and the other as a sweeper, would allow you to sac the lead Tyranitar in an advantageous trade while still being able to set up a sandstorm later in the game.
More insane in older gens. Gen 5: Multiple Weather Setters would make things insane. Scarf/Spec Toed would be ridiculous while having a defensive one to fall back on. Makes DragMag more ridic too with multiple Garchomp, Latios, or Kyurem-B Gen 4: 2 Garchomp or 2 Salamance would ruin the game of yesteryear. Honestly would probably be fine now but I could still imagine 2 Jirachi, Latias, Clefable, Rotom-A being ridiculous for their versatility, durability, power. Gen 3: Pick 2-3- DDtar, Pursuit Tar, Mixed Tar. Super busted, TTar is one of the best lures and trappers, only held back by not being able to break for the most destructive DDer, DDTar. 2 Skarm + Dug sounds loltastic too. 2 Skarm, 2 bliss, with Duggy to trap mag xD Gen 2: My Team: 6 Snorlax Gen 1: My Team: 4x Chansey 2xTauros
I play a lot of AG, I didn't use repeat pokemon until recently, in the past I used double yveltal, one life orb the other heavy duty boots spdef but it leaves you weak to zacian. As of late I use a Spdef Arceus steel with judgement, ice beam, recover toxic. A physically def Arceus ground with the same moveset just cm over toxic and refresh over ice beam. Both are just the standard sets Smogon gives with lots of HP and speed. These two work very well together as Groudon, zacian, necrozma duskmane, zygarde and xerneas are some of the most used threats in the tier. This core allows me to check a lot of the main top tier threats, I also use yveltal and dusk mane necrozma on the same team. The team is definitely a balanced team with DD life orb mega ray and ditto. Most teams I come across are either hyper offense i.e. hazards and sweepers or balanced offense with Spdef necrozma and a few other bulky set up mons (highest Ive reached was low 1900s). Arceus ground and steel work very well together especially with duskmane necrozma. Double steel core with a ground type is very strong and hard to break especially because they all have recovery. Can't use toxic or toxic spikes to break through especially when Arceus ground has refresh. Arceus is good because they don't initially know what typing they are or what moves they have. Do I have ice beam? Do I have fire blast for Ferro? Arceus is a good Mon to keep the opponent guessing. Arceus is very annoying to deal with even when they have scouted out the sets as when you use two of them, one can deal with the others threat and vice versa. This in conjunction with their mix of offensive power and longevity is very difficult to deal with. Other good options for Arceus pairs are (imo): Fairy+Ground, Dark+Ground, Flying+Fire (offensively very surprising and hard to deal with especially with coverage) I definitely wouldn't use more than 2 Arceus on the one team as after 2 they will just be eating into your coverage options. Arceus is just so versatile, can be a bulky sweeper, cleric, setup sweeper, defensive core, hazard setter etc. Very good Mon to have multiple of.
In earlier gens I remember always thinking I could get slaughter and slaughter if I had two Landorus-T on the same team. One Special Landorus-T and one regular.
One problem I see popping up is that teams can have 6 of the same strong offensive mon, then use the first few to trade off the counters and checks to said offensive mon on the enemy team, followed by using the remaining few to just sweep through the team once all the checks/counters are gone
I always weep for Ultra Necrozma. Nobody uses it because Necrozma Dusk Mane exists, & apparently that disallows Necrozma despite that NDM is more Solgaleo, & they differ widely. It really frustrates me. They feel different enough as forms, with different types, moves & roles & 1 of them is literally comprised of a SECOND, DIFFERENT SPECIES. Anyway, neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
I think the worst thing that could come out of no species clause is having to guess to role of the same pokemon twice in a match. If someone brings four Landorus' to a match, any one of them can do practically anything, and everytime one of them enters the field you have about four times the amount of moves you have to guess.
As someone who often plays mono-specie teams, I know there is two more things that make duplicate species harder to deal with. For both, I'll be using my most successful specie so far as the prime example: Celesteela The first thing is when certain Pokemon requires special counters. Celesteela. It only has two weaknesses yet tons of resistances, so not many Pokemons can hope to be able to defeat a Celesteela, if even weaken it. Now what if you're piling 6 Celesteela? Sure, you'll be very weak to Fire and Electric, but you'll also invalidate maybe half of the opponent's team. Now you find a Pokemon that synergizes perfectly to take care of these weaknesses, and it becomes an extremely powerful team that can destroy Celesteela's weaknesses and then proceed to steamroll against the rest of the opponent's team. The second point is about discovering movesets. Many versatile Pokemons require the opponent to make a guess on which moveset it is, and if they guess wrong, they might just lose a Pokemon. But then they know what moveset it is, and it won't change, so they can react accordingly. This is particularly true for Celesteela, you don't deal against the Defensive set the same was as the Offensive set, and you still need to possibly sacrifice a Pokemon to discover which set it is. However with duplicates, the Pokemon can be switched out, and when it comes back, you still have no idea if it's the Defensive or Offensive set, so your scouting was for nothing. These two advantages are what makes duplicate species stronger than the simple addition.
I think the most interesting case for this would be in gen 7 Ubers. being able to use the standard defensive Necrozma-Dusk Mane set and also Ultra Necrozma as a sweeper could be interesting. This might also make Necrozma-Dawn Wings better even in gen 8, but it's still a lot worse than Lunala.
One of the topics you've talked about being is using multiple Pokémon of the same type to break through a counter and then sweep the team unopposed. With two of the same hyper offensive Pokémon with few counters, this would likely work out. To me this would be Dragapult. Shadow and Dragon is already such a hard type combo to resist. With its amazing speed and U -turn, all you need is something to check special walls like Melmetal, and setup stealth rocks.
I remember when they added the evolution clause back in the day. I would be down for a form clause that did the same thing to allow for zapdos to be used with zapdos-g. it seems fun and balanced. the only combo that would be op would be landoi but that's already uber. it would also be fun to have the same on the team multiple times but in different forms. I would not be in favor of the literal same mon multiple times though. AG is hilarious with 6 dittos tho ngl.
I ran a Hackmons team with 5 Electrode that got nearly to the top of the ladder (top 20 or top 10, iirc). Unfortunately, Thousand Arrows was added to PS within weeks of this, which pretty readily wiped it (the strat was a mix of 2x Air Balloon + Wonder Guard (one hazard-clearer) /2x Sheer Cold + No Guard + one other that I'm blanking on at the moment (it might have sometimes been another Wonder Guarder). Was very fun - you took heavy advantage of them not knowing which one you'd swapped into.
I’m unaware of anything like this has been tested in a standard meta game. It’d be interesting to see a new version of the OU tier or something like that where multiple Pokémon being used is allowed. That way we can see how it would work, and it wouldn’t completely alter standard OU
I'm all for allowing different forms to be used on the same team (as long as the form difference has an actual stat/type/ability difference, so no double keldeo) but allowing multiple Lando-T or other cheese like that I'm against.
I think a unique gimmick with the species clause’s removal would be a dual Haxorus combo with a Male and Female both having Rivaly as their abilities. It would help their wall breaking potential more as they could switch and crush something (If given the chance) with the extra attack added to Choice Band or Life Orb. On top of that, you could have one with Poison Jab and Close Combat to check would be resistances, and have the other run Taunt for ruining setup.
something that also affects species clause would be if two of them had the same nickname that way your opponent may not know which one you have sent out, and then do something like trying to outspeed the scarf landorus thinking it's the defensive one
> wall toxapax > quick claw toxapex > crit toxapex > wall ferrothorn > pivot ferrothorn > stall ferrothorn My team wouldn't be so good but we'd be pure vibing
I don't think the versatile cover-all pokemon like Lando-T and Mew would be that good to stack. I really think you want scary offensive/defensive threats with very limited counterplay. Double Pex (one Def one SpDef) sounds like a nightmare, as does double Volcarona (one Bulky, one Offensive).
I think that you should have talked about the ubers tier a bit more. Like the necrozma forms are interesting because dawn wings is overshadowed by dusk mane.
Multi-spiecies play would be niche for sure. One small advantage I can see though is item mix-ups. Most notably choice scarf. Ordinarily, if you've got a choice scarf user and you outspeed something naturally faster than it, you've revealed your choice scarf, and your opponent can then safely play the rest of the game under the assumption you've got a choice locked Pokemon. If you have 2 of the same species, both with the same amount of remaining HP, your opponent cannot be sure of your held item. If you a Heatran with Stone Edge, you're telegraphing to your opponent you are choiced. This is even stronger if you've revealed a choice Landorus. Then perhaps they bring in a Ferrothorn to safely set up Spikes, but surprise! This is actually a set with Rock Polish, Swords Dance, Stone Edge and Earthquake. I can't see this kind of play being common. But I can see it having occasional use.
I think it would be interesting to look at the pokemon who actively benefit from the species clause. For example, persian and dodrio are generally outclassed by tauros, but their ability to be, essentially, a "second tauros" lets them still see play. Similarly, even before eviolite, chansey would sometimes be seen alongside blissey on teams that really want special attackers to just not have fun. Also, porygon's niche as a snorlax answer in gen 1 is literally dependent on the fact that you have, essentially, one more snorlax than the enemy does, which can sometimes justify porygon despite its many flaws, and it simply wouldn't have that niche if you could just bring another snorlax.
You could also run the same pokemon with different abilities. There are quite a lot of pokemon with the intimidate and moxie ability, which can be used for bulky pivot or sweeper. Other options are magic guard or unaware Clefable. Generator or reckless Mienshao.
Well I think it's good for teams that go for monotype sets. You know where you expect the opponent too have 1-2 good matchups/counters which you lure in and break before steam rolling with the enhanced synergy. For more even teams? No. Many mons have side grades with different strengths but generally can do the same thing. Thus if you don't need them to be a certain type you can be fine running a team of 6 unique mons. Basically buff to things like rain but general teams wouldn't be helped too much. Now .gonna watch the vid
I think with Landorus-T and Garchomp the case for Scarf should have been delved into. Both of these mons are top tier Scarfer in any meta they exist, but the lack of power is noticeable. If you could get one more of the same with SD or Band or even Toxic/Knock in Lando’s case to break down checks, the scarfer has real potential to just end games.
There was a local tournament that didn't have a species clause so someone brought a team of six shuckles, I was the only one who was able to out stall them all.
We could try that in a weekly tournament, everyone have to build a OU team but the matches are in anything goes, so we can see if it would have any effect on the metagame
If there was a no scald UU meta, we could def have a no dupe mon meta, it’d be funny seeing the versatile good mons like lando, Tran, clef, the mythicals. Personally would be most excited abt using 2 slowbros cuz I’m always twisting my titties over standard Telesight or AV, or 2 zapdos, wait that’s just zap DOS, or zapquat, or zap dos squared
Probably a good way to think about it would be something like "would this Pokémon benefit from a 'fifth move' that could cause it to transform into a different version of itself" and "is that fifth move worth a full Pokémon slot)
No talk about Hisui variants? Really? Imagine having not one, but two Electrodes! Seriously, though, Zoroark is something to think about since they have such different weaknesses. The mind games get so much more complicated.
I've always wondered why Nintendo takes down various fan projects and mods, like Pokemon Uranium and Project M, but Pokemon Showdown hasn't been taken down.
A problem with multiple copies of the same pokemon is that if both have full or similar hp, you can't know which one you're fighting at any given moment.
Species clause is helpful when there is one stupidly overpowered pokemon in the tier. Smogon bans take time, and species clause will limit the damage from some of these fringe cases while the quickban talks/suspect test is underway. This also restricts weather/terrain teams--I would totally run two Pelippers if I could.
I think the best way to go about this would be to have a directors clause that recognized regional variants as different species. I don't think it's a good idea to allow multiple of the exact same Pokemon (such as Landorus-T) not because of the versatility, but because of the difficulty of immediately distinguishing between the different copies on one team.
The reason this clause is a thing is 6 vivillion teams lol. It has high win rate thanks to good base speed + sleep powder + quilver dance + hurricane and hidden power. It works in anything goes win rate is like %60 or something and some people surrenders instantly after seeing the team lol. Same goes for sleep clause tho
I was kinda wondering what would happen with Dawn Wings Necrozma if this clause was removed. Dusk Mane is kind of a central part of the metagame, and as such Dawn Wings sees almost no play as a result; would Dawn Wings be worth using if it didn't take up a Dusk Mane slot?
I could see double sand force + another ability. You could use either double excadrill or double gigalith with sand to outspeed and KO. Earthquake and stone edge go up to 130BP and both have good natural bulk and STAB + coverage
I didn’t even realize that regional forms weren’t allowed to be used alongside each other. Like the galarian birds aren’t even canonically related to the originals they’re just named after them. Not to mention they don’t play like them at all lol
I think you could use Sandslash and Alolan Sandslash well together in a sand team! Since both of them benefit from it and all. I know A!Sandslash is better in hail, but I think just having an ice type that synergizes well with a ground type would be really fun to see in action.
Super late to the party, but imagine this in post Home gen 9... While neither are OU anymore, imagine the havok Zoroark + Zoroark-H could cause together, absolutely evil potential. Not to mention Moltres and Moltres-G are both UU proper right now.
Generally, the things that would want to be run multiple times are almost always banned to Uber in modern gens. From old gens like Gen 2 Snorlax / Gen 1 Normals
Welcome to AG tier. This is uncommon, but I've seen it. 6 Toxapex. So glad that I was spamming critical hits. It took literally forever in a day to beat.
Ngl id love to see a update to species clause where you can use different forms I'd be a nice change to be able to see how it would effect the meta after all most forms have different stats and slightly different uses
I think there once was a VGC format where running both Foongus and Amoongus on the same team was a viable strategy. The value Amoongus provided was so high that it was apparently worth it to add a strictly worse version to the team. If species clause didn't exist, double Amoongus would have been popular.
I agree with the assessment that it would be mostly low impact. I think the rule should stay though, as any team running 2 of the same mon is probably not doing fun, healthy things in the meta. Any pokemon being commonly used as a 2-of would probably be a candidate for banning anyway.
I think Forms that are actually different should be the exception. Like sandslash/sandslash alola should be allowed on the same team. But if someone tried to get away with Keldeo and Keldeo R which are literally the same pokemon and you can use secret sword on both, nah.
How do you get secret sword on a non-resolute Keldeo?
@@KaoruMzk you trade it back to BW1
@@KaoruMzk isnt it just a tutor move for him, like it was in older gens?
@@milonchello1643 yes, but if it knows the move it automatically changes forms
@@pokeaimMD you can't, Keldeo resolute can't be traded in Gen V, you have to delete Secret Sword and revert it back to regular form to trade it and, afaik, there's no way to teach it the move in BW1
Of course the example used is Lando-T
I fear that it might be viable.
It's funny because it is a bad example imo. One of the reasons lando is so good is because of role compression, having so many options on one pokemon (immunity to ground and electric, rocks, intimidate, etc)
A group of landorus is called a gym of landorus
Devastating Landorus-T
That being said, Lando-T is a classic example of 5 move slot syndrome. It can do a ton of things overall, but it can only do so much with one set. Having two Lando-T on a team wouldn't be unviable or even feel that repetitive imo.
The most viable use of this would be to have 6 unown spell out swear words.
Exclamation point Unown coming in clutch!
XD that's an actual concern lol
Or Racial Slurs!
Unown-F
Unown-U
Unown-C
Unown-K
Something else
Unown-U
What I would do
Unown-D
Unown-E(Nickname: EE)
Unown-Z
Unown-N(Nickname: NU)
Unown-T
Unown-S
Having the species clause apply to galarian/alolan forms is pretty silly in the first place imo. Almost all of them are very different Pokemon.
Yeah I really would love to use Zapdos + Galarian Zapdos in OU.
i am pretty sure that is the case because in the main games that is how species clause works there
@Hunter Zalo I can guarantee that mid game Deo-A would find uses in some Lead Deo-S teams in gen 4 Uber if there were no species clause
@@jamesdinius7769 I don't see how using zygarde + zydog is too different from something like kadabra + alakazam though tbh (which is something I saw a fairly high level BW player use successfuly)
@Darth Hydreigon
Bruh why do pokemon fans do this.... Doesnt matter why dude, it freaking STUPID. Pokemon fans think a freakin fictional word controls real life people
Bruh HUMANS make the games they can make what ever rules they want so what are you even talking about?
It gets much funnier in earlier gens with less options available, where you would have an entire team of Mewtwos or Snorlaxes if you could.
in gen 1 anything goes, a tier so bad nobody wants to play it. The main strategy is just 6 mewtwos, you might see 4 or 5 mewtwos with a couple of mews but you can really just pull up with 6 ice beem mewtwos and attempt to outfreeze the opponents 6 mewtwo team (freeze based meta is why nobody wants to play the tier lol)
@@kingwailord4143 oh god
@@kingwailord4143 They should rename it to Anything Frozen
When you bring in one Articuno to stop Freeze sweeps, but then you just lose anyways because nothing compares to Mewtwo.
@@alibaba3568 anything let it goes
Also toxapex would be incredibly annoying to face multiple of because many teams just accept they'll get somewhat worn down by it as they break through it, but having 2 would prob mean needing dedicated counters like offensive roost Zapdos on your team so you wouldn't just run out of steam before you can break both of them
Spam Toxapex and Tornadus-T :))
this, stall teams in gen 8 are already toxapex focused to the point were its almost a fault, so many of their games are decided by scald burns and if pex gets crit or not because its just too important. Having two toxapex means that not only can you have one defensive and one specially defensive but it reduces the weight put onto one single toxapex so it does not have to preform as well. Plus the best abitily to synergize with regenerator, is another regenerator so the pexs themselfs have synergy with eachother; its not like your just running a back up toxapex as they can both be active players.
just run gking, and if you can afford gking+ferro its even better, like what are you gonna do, pp stall pex? then just switch one of gkings move to psychic and bam
Completely walled by galarian slowking. Immune to toxic, regenerator, and future sight sets up very dangerous situations for pex
@@35.tucongtan64 Just run 6 Zacians
Just wanted to mention this but if both of your dupe pokemon dont have nicknames the only thing telling them apart is their health. If you get regenerator pokemon that can heal easily you could pull off some crazy baits
I believe showdown would still show which moves have been revealed
Fun fact: this used to be allowed in Balanced Hackmons until someone proved its brokenness with a team of 6 Primal Kyogres (having your whole team weak to Electric and Grass doesn't matter when you got the entire movepool of the game and every non-broken ability at your disposal).
Shedinja would like a word
@@illusion9423 one word toxic.
yeah just give one Sap Sipper and one Volt Absorb/Lightning Rod
@@illusion9423Tyranitar/Hippowdon used Stealth Rock!
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Nat Dex Anything Goes player checking in: having multiple Arceus forms is extremely solid just because nothing walls quite like defensive Arceus sets. There are no walls in Pokemon that come close to the walling prowess of a defensive Arceus set sans maybe Primal Groudon (whom can be worn down due to lack of recovery), and honestly given the tiers power level you kinda need that level of defensive power. The sweeper sets are fine and are also worth considering, but something like Arceus Steel + Arceus Water makes for an incredible defensive core that most teams will struggle to break. It helps a lot that even defensive Arceus sets are not passive at all, thanks to 120 offenses, high BP stab moves, and good ole plate. This is important because you really don't want to be a passive wall in AG (hence why Giratina-A sees little to no play even in ubers, despite the monstrous bulk and defensive typing).
The main reason species clause exists is to prevent the game from becoming too matchup reliant. If you can stack 2 or 3 copies of , then you force the opponent to not only have a check for one of said sweeper, but multiple of them. Given how difficult it already is to build a team that accounts for all the meta threats, trying to account for cheeky players trying to score easy wins by stacking threats is just not healthy for the meta.
Arceus ground is really good aswell, counters so many meta mons
Ok but then it’d be a couple arceus and a toxapex or it’s more hipster cousin evolite golbat for haze
@@ultimaterecoil1136 Toxapex is entirely too passive for AG, and Golbat is just comically outclassed by Giratina/Arceus.
@@Ggg-lj5zz Arceus water>>>Every arceus forms..bcz theres no good elec/grass mon in ag/ubers
@@webbowser8834 well I wouldn’t say a mon who can counter extreme killer if built for it has a more favorable matchup vs baton pass thanks to infiltrator can fullfill a lot of the task pex does while being immediately threatening thanks to super fang is entirely out classed by giratina. Also having a ground immunity can be quite nice when primal groundon is around. It’s not the worst thing to use in anything goes and heck I’d personally say in anything goes in particular it’s better then pex ( in large part due to super fang and the presence of baton pass as well as tailwind)
In Gen 6/7 Balanced Hackmons, I remember constantly seeing new players with six Mega Rayquaza
Another layer of depth when using multiple of the same species is that you can make your opponent guess. For example, having both a special and a physical Dragopult, and making your opponent guess which side of the attacking spectrum you will utilize. I think that would be really interesting.
Wouldn't the better pokemon be the ones that have the most shaky checks it would be annoying just because even after you show both sets there is no way outside of hp levels to tell which one you sent out
Banded melmetal + protect toxic melmetal oh god
I was thinking this but for different reasons. If a pokemon has shaky checks, your opponent can check one of a pokemon but can it check multiple of them? It's a similar concept to something like a monotype offensive team.
That's what sd espeed arceus did last gen, get a couple of them with a different coverage move and you can power thru checks. This tends to be the case with a lot of offensive pokemons like Xerneas.
In general you want smt that forces an immediate answer or forces a lot of switch outs, scarf lele and scarf kart are good examples, scarfers are especially great because there's no way of knowing when the scarfer is out or when it's another set. Heatran as well or even dual fini work. Overpowering checks isn't a new strat, it's just much more easily done with multiple of the same mons.
Brings me back to the days of gen 7 AG where a bot named "Morganna Mode Birb" spammed six Staraptor and actually had an alright win rate. To counter, I made a team of six Tapu Koko, and gave them mostly unique sets to check different things. Surprisingly, most people only carry one or two counters for a specific threat, so once that counter is gone, a lot of teams just get mowed down by Specs E-Terrain Thunderbolts or Banded Wild Charge. With USUM, I also got access to Defog, which meant my stallbreaker Koko was EVEN BETTER.
Bonus: My PDon check was SO GOOD; I had Flyinium-Z Koko with Protect to bait out the Precipice Blades and retaliate with Z-Mirror Move. That gives me +2 Attack and a Ground-Z move to OHKO PDon, which means they now have to deal with a boosted Koko spamming Wild Charge and Brave Bird that can also bait out attacks to Mirror Move back. It was my greatest idea of all time, and I ended up around 1600 on gen 7 AG before quitting for the summer.
i think this concept is somewhat similar to rain teams, where the goal is to overwhelm the opponent with powerful and fast water type attacks. with that in mind, i think it might be worth exploring the idea of *running* *the* *same* *set* on both pokémon. switching into choice band weavile is a nightmare - it’s fast, so it will almost always chunk something before going down. now, imagine taking out a weavile, and you’re suddenly staring down ANOTHER banded triple axel. being able to run the same pokémon means that fast offense can just overpower its checks
Different regional forms should be treated like the different Pokemon that they are. They have different types and movesets. They're basically the modern version of Vileplume and Bellossom. If their forms can be freely switched in-game, then they should count as the same Pokemon.
You should've addressed some extremely similar mons that do or don't share teams together. For instance, Latios and Latias have some interesting teams together across various generations (usually with one running defensive/utility/setup and the other going offensive), but mons like Blissey and Chansey or Slowbro and Slowking don't show up on teams together (which makes sense, they're filling a defensive role twice).
Technically, double blob and double slow teams are a thing, but they are very specific in terms of which metagame they can be found in
There is also another point to make on two same mons: Your opponent doesn't necessarily know which one is in the field if they haven't chipped them. I noticed the importance of that when I was running a 4 zacian team in AG, as the opponent had to guess which coverage I had everytime I switched out. It gets even worse with other things like multiple dittos, where they have to guess wether you are the scarfed one or the bright powder one lol
One thing that may be relevant when having two of the same mons on the team is that your opponent does not know which of the two you have on the field. It would be horrible to have to account for two different sets for the entire game when facing down a lando even after the sets have already been revealed.
Fortunately, Showdown gives out the relevant known information for each pokemon whenever they're on the field, so we just have to hover our mouse to the pokemon to keep track of their sets.
@@suryaagung7722 it doesn't do that if there's multiple identical copies of the same mon
@@yonatanbeer3475 if they are identical you can use the same mon to counter them
@@darthhydreigon820 I mean like, different forms. If you have two lando-T with different movesets it won't tell you which is which on mouseover
They could enforce a unique name clause to avoid complication . Or they could keep it in. For added mayhem
I think it wouldn't be broken, but toxic. If there are 2 mons, you'd have 0 indication as to which one is which.
Examples of this already exist, in LC Abra can be Focus Sash or Life orb, playing around one makes it weak to the other. You can guess which Lando they have on their team, but with 3 Landos it can get stupid. You want to absorb toxic but they swords dance instead. Other game you wanna damage the setuper, but it's bulky and sets up SR. It's just stupid.
However, letting it happen could be fun. I bet some strategies would just overpower any defense though, like 6 banded Kartanas or sth.
Tbh there should probably be a form exception to the species clause. Most of the forms act like completely different pokemon
Alolan and Galarian forms should be allowed on the same team but Keldeo, Deoxys and Shaymin should be restricted to one
@@Rose-ez7yn different forms that don't need to hold a item or know a move to change.
@@Rose-ez7yn no because u need a regular Greninja on the start of the battle to become the ash one, if u wanna a less arbitrary u can just make that only other regions forms can be used at the same time.
Video Idea: What would happen if team preview never existed. Would there be a lead metagame like gen 4? What would that look like? Would be see more gimics arise from not knowing what pokemon could come next. For example, Illusion nonsense or pokemon like shedinja.
I remember back in XY my cousin and I would use Dual Zards in the battle maison. Mega X and Y compliment each other pretty well. One is immune to the others earthquake and Drought helps X’s flareblitz. If 2 megas were ever possible in anything that’s not multis Dual Zards wouldn’t be horrible
One thing I’d like to mention in regards to this would be if Megas came back, what it would be like to see is double Charizard cores, with teams being able to Mega the one that fits the matchup better. Similarly, I think Species Clause should be adjusted to account for separate forms.
I think that would be niche but it could be fun to see
How about this. A joke format where you can only use one species for your entire team. Just having 6 Mews or smth.
Woldey did a video about this years ago
look up the corsola cup
Then what about a Pokémon that takes so much time to set up and is never worth it, like a Ledian cup or a Delibird cup?
Ledian cup would be evasion against Fire Punch, Delibird would be truly uniform.
I think it would be overbearing its similar to the strategy of spamming one type to break throught a check with sheer number and then run over your opponent . Bird and ghost spam existed for a reason
100% usage Landorus-T would still not be up for an Ubers Ban btw xD
Jokes aside, the Only motivation for not using the species clause is the "One is difensive and One attacking" which looks a bit broken
Perfect, can finally use arceus steel and "arceus steel" the flying arceus on the same team
No species clause would make powerful offensive mons that could already choose their counters/checks an even bigger nightmare to deal with.
Imagine having to play the guessing game vs a team with 2 Weaviles.
But what about a stall team with two weaviles
0:00-0:40, If wolfeglick ever saw this, he would have nightmares
There might be some potential on dedicated weather teams to run multiple weather setters for consistency. Having two Tyranitars on a sand team, one and a lead and the other as a sweeper, would allow you to sac the lead Tyranitar in an advantageous trade while still being able to set up a sandstorm later in the game.
More insane in older gens.
Gen 5: Multiple Weather Setters would make things insane. Scarf/Spec Toed would be ridiculous while having a defensive one to fall back on. Makes DragMag more ridic too with multiple Garchomp, Latios, or Kyurem-B
Gen 4: 2 Garchomp or 2 Salamance would ruin the game of yesteryear. Honestly would probably be fine now but I could still imagine 2 Jirachi, Latias, Clefable, Rotom-A being ridiculous for their versatility, durability, power.
Gen 3: Pick 2-3- DDtar, Pursuit Tar, Mixed Tar. Super busted, TTar is one of the best lures and trappers, only held back by not being able to break for the most destructive DDer, DDTar. 2 Skarm + Dug sounds loltastic too. 2 Skarm, 2 bliss, with Duggy to trap mag xD
Gen 2: My Team: 6 Snorlax
Gen 1: My Team: 4x Chansey 2xTauros
I play a lot of AG, I didn't use repeat pokemon until recently, in the past I used double yveltal, one life orb the other heavy duty boots spdef but it leaves you weak to zacian.
As of late I use a Spdef Arceus steel with judgement, ice beam, recover toxic. A physically def Arceus ground with the same moveset just cm over toxic and refresh over ice beam. Both are just the standard sets Smogon gives with lots of HP and speed.
These two work very well together as Groudon, zacian, necrozma duskmane, zygarde and xerneas are some of the most used threats in the tier. This core allows me to check a lot of the main top tier threats, I also use yveltal and dusk mane necrozma on the same team. The team is definitely a balanced team with DD life orb mega ray and ditto. Most teams I come across are either hyper offense i.e. hazards and sweepers or balanced offense with Spdef necrozma and a few other bulky set up mons (highest Ive reached was low 1900s). Arceus ground and steel work very well together especially with duskmane necrozma. Double steel core with a ground type is very strong and hard to break especially because they all have recovery. Can't use toxic or toxic spikes to break through especially when Arceus ground has refresh.
Arceus is good because they don't initially know what typing they are or what moves they have. Do I have ice beam? Do I have fire blast for Ferro? Arceus is a good Mon to keep the opponent guessing. Arceus is very annoying to deal with even when they have scouted out the sets as when you use two of them, one can deal with the others threat and vice versa. This in conjunction with their mix of offensive power and longevity is very difficult to deal with.
Other good options for Arceus pairs are (imo): Fairy+Ground, Dark+Ground, Flying+Fire (offensively very surprising and hard to deal with especially with coverage)
I definitely wouldn't use more than 2 Arceus on the one team as after 2 they will just be eating into your coverage options. Arceus is just so versatile, can be a bulky sweeper, cleric, setup sweeper, defensive core, hazard setter etc. Very good Mon to have multiple of.
2 Zacian Crowned and 4 Incineroar VGC meta baby.
This is why forms clause should take precedent as an exception to species clause
I swear I've seen a ruleset with a forms clause instead of a species clause. (ie: you can use multiples of the same Pokémon, but not the same form.)
Are you thinking of the tournament hosted by Wolfy? The Legends Arcrus tournament with Jaiden Animations and other UA-camrs?
Balanced hackmons
In earlier gens I remember always thinking I could get slaughter and slaughter if I had two Landorus-T on the same team. One Special Landorus-T and one regular.
One problem I see popping up is that teams can have 6 of the same strong offensive mon, then use the first few to trade off the counters and checks to said offensive mon on the enemy team, followed by using the remaining few to just sweep through the team once all the checks/counters are gone
I always weep for Ultra Necrozma. Nobody uses it because Necrozma Dusk Mane exists, & apparently that disallows Necrozma despite that NDM is more Solgaleo, & they differ widely. It really frustrates me. They feel different enough as forms, with different types, moves & roles & 1 of them is literally comprised of a SECOND, DIFFERENT SPECIES.
Anyway, neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
I think the worst thing that could come out of no species clause is having to guess to role of the same pokemon twice in a match. If someone brings four Landorus' to a match, any one of them can do practically anything, and everytime one of them enters the field you have about four times the amount of moves you have to guess.
Lead Suicide Mew + Protective Pads DD Mew is my dream
Very insightful, thanks for answering my question :)
As someone who often plays mono-specie teams, I know there is two more things that make duplicate species harder to deal with. For both, I'll be using my most successful specie so far as the prime example: Celesteela
The first thing is when certain Pokemon requires special counters. Celesteela. It only has two weaknesses yet tons of resistances, so not many Pokemons can hope to be able to defeat a Celesteela, if even weaken it. Now what if you're piling 6 Celesteela? Sure, you'll be very weak to Fire and Electric, but you'll also invalidate maybe half of the opponent's team. Now you find a Pokemon that synergizes perfectly to take care of these weaknesses, and it becomes an extremely powerful team that can destroy Celesteela's weaknesses and then proceed to steamroll against the rest of the opponent's team.
The second point is about discovering movesets. Many versatile Pokemons require the opponent to make a guess on which moveset it is, and if they guess wrong, they might just lose a Pokemon. But then they know what moveset it is, and it won't change, so they can react accordingly. This is particularly true for Celesteela, you don't deal against the Defensive set the same was as the Offensive set, and you still need to possibly sacrifice a Pokemon to discover which set it is. However with duplicates, the Pokemon can be switched out, and when it comes back, you still have no idea if it's the Defensive or Offensive set, so your scouting was for nothing.
These two advantages are what makes duplicate species stronger than the simple addition.
You should’ve brought up the Ponyta forms in LC, both are actually really good in that tier and they have good synergy.
I think the most interesting case for this would be in gen 7 Ubers. being able to use the standard defensive Necrozma-Dusk Mane set and also Ultra Necrozma as a sweeper could be interesting. This might also make Necrozma-Dawn Wings better even in gen 8, but it's still a lot worse than Lunala.
Love how the focus blast in the video misses
Smogon players will see the 6 landorus team and be like “it’s not broken it just holds the meta game together”
One of the topics you've talked about being is using multiple Pokémon of the same type to break through a counter and then sweep the team unopposed.
With two of the same hyper offensive Pokémon with few counters, this would likely work out.
To me this would be Dragapult. Shadow and Dragon is already such a hard type combo to resist. With its amazing speed and U -turn, all you need is something to check special walls like Melmetal, and setup stealth rocks.
I remember when they added the evolution clause back in the day. I would be down for a form clause that did the same thing to allow for zapdos to be used with zapdos-g. it seems fun and balanced. the only combo that would be op would be landoi but that's already uber. it would also be fun to have the same on the team multiple times but in different forms. I would not be in favor of the literal same mon multiple times though. AG is hilarious with 6 dittos tho ngl.
I ran a Hackmons team with 5 Electrode that got nearly to the top of the ladder (top 20 or top 10, iirc). Unfortunately, Thousand Arrows was added to PS within weeks of this, which pretty readily wiped it (the strat was a mix of 2x Air Balloon + Wonder Guard (one hazard-clearer) /2x Sheer Cold + No Guard + one other that I'm blanking on at the moment (it might have sometimes been another Wonder Guarder). Was very fun - you took heavy advantage of them not knowing which one you'd swapped into.
I’m unaware of anything like this has been tested in a standard meta game. It’d be interesting to see a new version of the OU tier or something like that where multiple Pokémon being used is allowed. That way we can see how it would work, and it wouldn’t completely alter standard OU
I'm all for allowing different forms to be used on the same team (as long as the form difference has an actual stat/type/ability difference, so no double keldeo) but allowing multiple Lando-T or other cheese like that I'm against.
I think a unique gimmick with the species clause’s removal would be a dual Haxorus combo with a Male and Female both having Rivaly as their abilities. It would help their wall breaking potential more as they could switch and crush something (If given the chance) with the extra attack added to Choice Band or Life Orb.
On top of that, you could have one with Poison Jab and Close Combat to check would be resistances, and have the other run Taunt for ruining setup.
something that also affects species clause would be if two of them had the same nickname
that way your opponent may not know which one you have sent out, and then do something like trying to outspeed the scarf landorus thinking it's the defensive one
> wall toxapax
> quick claw toxapex
> crit toxapex
> wall ferrothorn
> pivot ferrothorn
> stall ferrothorn
My team wouldn't be so good but we'd be pure vibing
I don't think the versatile cover-all pokemon like Lando-T and Mew would be that good to stack. I really think you want scary offensive/defensive threats with very limited counterplay. Double Pex (one Def one SpDef) sounds like a nightmare, as does double Volcarona (one Bulky, one Offensive).
one fast ice beam user and that lando team is gonna face trouble
Chansey and blissey come dangerously close
"Focus Blast to beat Steel types."
4:04 Immediately misses.
For these theorymon videos you can host tournaments with various rules like these an see what everyone will come up with
i'm just sitting here thinking of double zoroarks (zoroark + horoark, of course horoark needs to get illusion for this to even be a consideration...)
Other people: Use multiple of the same good pokemon
Meanwhile me using a full team of Furrets (its very fun and competitive in every way possible)
I think that you should have talked about the ubers tier a bit more. Like the necrozma forms are interesting because dawn wings is overshadowed by dusk mane.
I would instantly forfeit at every mono-Toxapex team
Multi-spiecies play would be niche for sure.
One small advantage I can see though is item mix-ups. Most notably choice scarf.
Ordinarily, if you've got a choice scarf user and you outspeed something naturally faster than it, you've revealed your choice scarf, and your opponent can then safely play the rest of the game under the assumption you've got a choice locked Pokemon.
If you have 2 of the same species, both with the same amount of remaining HP, your opponent cannot be sure of your held item. If you a Heatran with Stone Edge, you're telegraphing to your opponent you are choiced. This is even stronger if you've revealed a choice Landorus. Then perhaps they bring in a Ferrothorn to safely set up Spikes, but surprise! This is actually a set with Rock Polish, Swords Dance, Stone Edge and Earthquake.
I can't see this kind of play being common. But I can see it having occasional use.
I think it would be interesting to look at the pokemon who actively benefit from the species clause. For example, persian and dodrio are generally outclassed by tauros, but their ability to be, essentially, a "second tauros" lets them still see play. Similarly, even before eviolite, chansey would sometimes be seen alongside blissey on teams that really want special attackers to just not have fun. Also, porygon's niche as a snorlax answer in gen 1 is literally dependent on the fact that you have, essentially, one more snorlax than the enemy does, which can sometimes justify porygon despite its many flaws, and it simply wouldn't have that niche if you could just bring another snorlax.
Best answer regarding GTO Pokémon. Their names are Zacian & Zacain.
You can use one as the immediate threat and another as an Imprisoner with Leftovers to counter other Zacian.
You could also run the same pokemon with different abilities. There are quite a lot of pokemon with the intimidate and moxie ability, which can be used for bulky pivot or sweeper. Other options are magic guard or unaware Clefable. Generator or reckless Mienshao.
Well I think it's good for teams that go for monotype sets. You know where you expect the opponent too have 1-2 good matchups/counters which you lure in and break before steam rolling with the enhanced synergy.
For more even teams? No. Many mons have side grades with different strengths but generally can do the same thing. Thus if you don't need them to be a certain type you can be fine running a team of 6 unique mons.
Basically buff to things like rain but general teams wouldn't be helped too much.
Now .gonna watch the vid
I think with Landorus-T and Garchomp the case for Scarf should have been delved into. Both of these mons are top tier Scarfer in any meta they exist, but the lack of power is noticeable. If you could get one more of the same with SD or Band or even Toxic/Knock in Lando’s case to break down checks, the scarfer has real potential to just end games.
Meet me in OU with my triple wormadams
There was a local tournament that didn't have a species clause so someone brought a team of six shuckles, I was the only one who was able to out stall them all.
We could try that in a weekly tournament, everyone have to build a OU team but the matches are in anything goes, so we can see if it would have any effect on the metagame
I love the thumbnail
If there was a no scald UU meta, we could def have a no dupe mon meta, it’d be funny seeing the versatile good mons like lando, Tran, clef, the mythicals. Personally would be most excited abt using 2 slowbros cuz I’m always twisting my titties over standard Telesight or AV, or 2 zapdos, wait that’s just zap DOS, or zapquat, or zap dos squared
Probably a good way to think about it would be something like "would this Pokémon benefit from a 'fifth move' that could cause it to transform into a different version of itself" and "is that fifth move worth a full Pokémon slot)
I always thought of the two kyurem formes using fusion flare and fusion bolt as a gimmick
No talk about Hisui variants? Really? Imagine having not one, but two Electrodes! Seriously, though, Zoroark is something to think about since they have such different weaknesses. The mind games get so much more complicated.
I would spam Victini and corviknight.
I've always wondered why Nintendo takes down various fan projects and mods, like Pokemon Uranium and Project M, but Pokemon Showdown hasn't been taken down.
i was thinking about this concept while teamvuilding in LC. having both ponyta forms would be pretty deadly in the current meta
6 mienfoos les go
A problem with multiple copies of the same pokemon is that if both have full or similar hp, you can't know which one you're fighting at any given moment.
Species clause is helpful when there is one stupidly overpowered pokemon in the tier. Smogon bans take time, and species clause will limit the damage from some of these fringe cases while the quickban talks/suspect test is underway. This also restricts weather/terrain teams--I would totally run two Pelippers if I could.
I think the best way to go about this would be to have a directors clause that recognized regional variants as different species. I don't think it's a good idea to allow multiple of the exact same Pokemon (such as Landorus-T) not because of the versatility, but because of the difficulty of immediately distinguishing between the different copies on one team.
The reason this clause is a thing is 6 vivillion teams lol. It has high win rate thanks to good base speed + sleep powder + quilver dance + hurricane and hidden power. It works in anything goes win rate is like %60 or something and some people surrenders instantly after seeing the team lol. Same goes for sleep clause tho
I was kinda wondering what would happen with Dawn Wings Necrozma if this clause was removed. Dusk Mane is kind of a central part of the metagame, and as such Dawn Wings sees almost no play as a result; would Dawn Wings be worth using if it didn't take up a Dusk Mane slot?
dawn wings is alr bad because lunala is much better than it
I like the idea of 2 Rapadash, Zapdos, or Slowbro, but I think i'd prefer a form clause to no species restriction
I could see double sand force + another ability. You could use either double excadrill or double gigalith with sand to outspeed and KO. Earthquake and stone edge go up to 130BP and both have good natural bulk and STAB + coverage
I didn’t even realize that regional forms weren’t allowed to be used alongside each other. Like the galarian birds aren’t even canonically related to the originals they’re just named after them. Not to mention they don’t play like them at all lol
I think you could use Sandslash and Alolan Sandslash well together in a sand team! Since both of them benefit from it and all. I know A!Sandslash is better in hail, but I think just having an ice type that synergizes well with a ground type would be really fun to see in action.
6 mega rayquazas with 4 hyper beams and dragon ascent
Ever heard of the Wonder Launcher? It was a toggleable setting in gen 5 multiplayer battles that let you use certain bag items in battle. It was Bad
Super late to the party, but imagine this in post Home gen 9... While neither are OU anymore, imagine the havok Zoroark + Zoroark-H could cause together, absolutely evil potential.
Not to mention Moltres and Moltres-G are both UU proper right now.
Generally, the things that would want to be run multiple times are almost always banned to Uber in modern gens. From old gens like Gen 2 Snorlax / Gen 1 Normals
I would love a moves clause video in the future.
Welcome to AG tier. This is uncommon, but I've seen it. 6 Toxapex. So glad that I was spamming critical hits. It took literally forever in a day to beat.
Ngl id love to see a update to species clause where you can use different forms I'd be a nice change to be able to see how it would effect the meta after all most forms have different stats and slightly different uses
I think there once was a VGC format where running both Foongus and Amoongus on the same team was a viable strategy. The value Amoongus provided was so high that it was apparently worth it to add a strictly worse version to the team. If species clause didn't exist, double Amoongus would have been popular.
I agree with the assessment that it would be mostly low impact. I think the rule should stay though, as any team running 2 of the same mon is probably not doing fun, healthy things in the meta. Any pokemon being commonly used as a 2-of would probably be a candidate for banning anyway.
Imagine being able to stack both Zoroarks on a team and mix up which one is disguising as the 6th Pokemon
Landosus Battle Bus
Sus?