So I just want to make this 100% clear. This type of content will not be replacing the normal theories I produce (I am currently working on one about the Drust) and I know R.O.M.D are a considerable downgrade to the normal content I produce. I have never been good at presenting or talking and over time I hope to raise the quality to a significantly better standard, but I have to start somewhere. So if you have any feedback good or bad, I am quite willing to listen and willing to attempt to incorporate that feedback it into future R.O.M.D. Also if you liked the content leave a like, comment and share.
Recently discovered your channel. Definitely found some interesting ideas that helped to rekindle interest in story. I am far from knowledgable when it comes to this topic, so I can only share a few observations. Random idea about Sylvanas and why could she end up in the Maw if she would be judged by the Arbiter. It seems that the main reason to send a character somewhere is about how this character can "help" the current system, where the traits that the person has could be used to extract the maximal value for the whole anima harvest cycle. Now, if Sylvanas is a character who would no matter what try to rebel against this system, then she would have no place there. Hence, the only "suitable" place is the Maw, where rejected by the system could be thrown to. When it comes to emotions, I believe there was something about souls not being fully connected to the body when it comes to undead. Plust, undead have negative emotions stronger, but barely any positive. Now, there is a rather "cruel" way to address it via the Light, but it not only brings back numbed sences, but also... brings back numbed senses. Which means, makes, say, forsaken, aware of them rotting, although slowly, etc. It can be done in some capacity, but not a faint of heart. I think that was quoted in forsaken wowpedia article part about how the light affect the forsaken. I am not sure that the reason to control val'kyr has much to do with "future" of the forsaken, as much as that they might not be able to fulfil the pact. When Sylvanas died 1st time, it took 1 val'kyr to "trade" her out. 2nd time it took 3. So, unless it's a mistake, by the legion time frame, they are not capable of that part of the pact even if they would want to. And I do not think they want. The story about val'kyrs is stranger than it seems at the first glance, (IMO if they could, they would backstab Sylvanas the very first moment they get this opportunity without backfiring to them because of the pact). And Sylvanas after some event in early-ish Legion time frame, maybe meeting with Helia, maybe somehow else, learns about some things that val'kyrs never told to her. Like the need for more val'kyrs than she had, and ritual used on Nathanos that they kept as one of their secrets from Sylvanas. gl hf
I guess my only question is, I assume your not a fan of Illidan's return or whats going on with Kael'thas in Shadowlands? (and on a very slim chance Garrosh as well.) I ask because I've run into a few people who don't have a consistent views the characters and I was just curious if you do see them differently why?
@@thedreadexpanse3817 Illidan and Kael'thas are both casualties of TBC's lackluster storytelling, they were both infamous characters like arthas and blizzard turned them into bosses just for recognition and hype, their story arcs came to an end without much reason for it. Kael'thas i would argue has more story in TBC than Illidan, but the way blizzard changed him in TBC is very unrecognizable from how we last saw him in W3, my guess would be that W3 Kael'thas would be an unfit character to have as a raid boss. the way they handled Illidan in TBC was just dirty though. compared to those 2 arthas got everything, an entire expansion where he gets to defend the choices he made, and where he tries to prove that anyone would accept power for vengeance. He got everything a character could ask for, we saw the way he step by step was walking further away from the light, we saw him succumb to his rage, accepting power for a glimpse of revenge, all his goodness he threw away willingly, culminating in a last fight atop of ICC, his will against our will and finally he was defeated, he got closure unlike the other 2. That being said, im not a fan of these "comebacks" of dead characters no matter the name, what i have seen is that blizzard has an incredible hard time making new remarkable characters, which is why imo MoP is the most memorable expansion when it comes to story, Legion, BFA and now shadowlands are all expansions that you can connect back to MoP Lore.
@@thedreadexpanse3817 dont get me wrong, i love arthas as a character, undead was the only faction i played in custom games becasue of him (and anub'arak), but because i think his story arc from w3 to WoTLK is so intriguing is the reason i dont wanna see him be brought back just because people cant accept that he truly became a villain, his character doesn't need redemption!!! we all know the reasons for the choices he made but still those choices were his own to make, he chose his destiny.
Yeah, I don't think they will redeem him. They might have him do a small cameo type thing, but I doubt they will redeem him. They know how beloved a character he is and how they need to tread carefully with his story.
You might know this now because of the art book for Shadowlands, but the reason souls in the Maw seem to lose their memory is due to the torment they suffer. It tears away at them until they are completely broken and subservient. This is said in the Maw part of the book.
What if the jailer wanted Arthas to be discovered by the Kyrian because he knew some would react harshly to the discovery. And therefore cause them to skip bringing Arthas to the Arbiter and instead plunging him directly into the Maw, and Arthas would have had a lot of Anima due to how powerful he was in life. This massive amount of Anima was now just dropped at the Jailer's doorstep for him to consume and regain much of his power. Which then allowed him to be able to send the Valkyr to bring Sylvanas' soul to the Maw so he could make a bargain with her.
The Arbiter does seem to judge based on morality and rules of the world the soul comes from. There is a Sinstone in Revendreth where one of the crimes the person did was sing, which is completely forbidden in their world.
I think she meant by "if he had purged his life." is that if Uther had purged his burdens of life to ascend, they would have never known of the atrocities that are happening in the living world and that an agent of the Maw was running rampant. I don't think she means if Arthas had fully purged Uther's life. But, maybe.
Is it possible because of Uther's plea to the Light, he somehow skipped the Arbiter? My reason for this is he doesn't seem to remember Oribos (despite the art book mentioning that Oribos is the first place a soul will set their eyes upon when reaching the Shadowlands) or anything prior to being carried by Devos. And I doubt a Paragon would be one that would retrieve souls normally, it would probably be lower ranked Ascended unless directly ordered by say the Archon for some reason. The Paragons are busy training new aspirants and wouldn't be sent to go collect souls to bring to the Arbiter. Just a thought.
Yeah I have also been wondering why would Devos personally carry Uther to Bastion. She is a paragon after all, just like you have said. Honestly I cannot explain why she would come to carry Uther to Bastion.
It was never said that Sylvanas is morally grey, people have taken something that Ion has said and twisted it like a game of telephone. What was said is that the world of Azeroth isn't black and white it's made of shades of grey, or something to that effect. I just remember he never said she herself was morally grey.
Arthas banished his humanity during his coma, if someone gets a redemption story Mathias Lehner should get it and become his own character while Arthas stays a villain 🤔
2 possibilities: 1: Gods are dicks, Greek style 2: The maw was going to exist anyways (Darkness/Chaos prison?), and so they either made souls go there or perhaps that was just how it naturally worked and they didn’t want to fuck with it for fear of releasing Chaos/Darkness
@@RichardJamesStayAtHomeDad Negative, Arthas soul split in a way getting rid of the Light's influence becoming Mathias, so the rest of Arthas could become what he is truly meant to be
Man, i never i´ll inspire you to use my comment about uther being selfless when he wasn´t. You use what i told about tirion i´m glad you did. Cool, but uther is a complletely asshole. Culling of strathom and arthas descend to stupidity could have been stop if uther aside from refusing, would have try to stop him . What he did alone with jaina, turn the back on arthas and left. MAn i ´m truly glad you read and use my comments. Also, sorry about last time if i offended you, wasn´t my intention.
You didn't offend me. (If I ever am you'll know.) It was good conversation. I am sorry to tell you though, I had already made the content before we had that conversation, I had been told about how much of an ass Uther was ages ago. I agree about Culling of Stratholm, Uther should have tried to stop Arthas.
RANT: I hate that people still calls Lich King as Arthas, dude was telling us that in I think Howling Fjord that he was a shaman once. Lich King was amalgram of bad sides of both mind (not soul) so it's normal that Lich King can call himself both shaman and paladin. Like Tichondrius said, first soul Frostmourne claimed was Arthas'. Illidan sacrifices his own people OH LORD ILLIDAN I'll be your asslicker, hailed as hero yet when Arthas' killed "Doomed" people to just to save kingdom Evil incarnate. What Arthas did in Stratholme was cutting gangrene part of body. Just play W3 and think what you can do about in that situation. Call mages to summon? Let's just say Jaina goes to Kirin Tor, convinced them to cause, minimum you spent a day to gather mages while Mal'ganis killing and raising your precious humans as undead... Let's just say you let people out of there, how the hell you will tell apart infected people? It had to be done, noone had backbone to do that. Write my words, they will just gonna release couple of "bad" things he did when he was human (to retcon, before all these undead things) What I really afraid of that they will gonna use Jaina against him. Arthas' "soul" deserve peace, I hope this time when SL ends Uther and Jaina won't abandon him.
Also do we know that living creatures can be exist without soul? Imagine extracting soul without harming body? If it is indeed possible then, you can resurrect corpses with sane mind but their soul is in Shadowlands. Didn't DEVs said it was Sylvanas who was behind Wrathgate? Maybe because of that she saw Maw? Also I don't think she directly went to Maw, she just gazed over it before Arbiter judges her and before judging valkyries who belonged to her, brought her back. Are we sure that she will be in maw if she stayed there? Did Arbiter judge her? Also if that easy to bring people from Maw what's the point of it?
@@MrNetrizhul I never really though bringing Syl back was that easy though, the main Valkyrie literally had to trade places with Syl to get her out and to our knowledge that Valk has been there since. To your other questions though, it kind of depends on what you define as "living", withered are technically living... technically. I think this also depends on how you define resurrection, as in there are instance of corpses being brought back and filled with magic or possessed by other spirits. So what your suggesting is completely possible. Though if your referring to the idea that that same person can be res'd while being in the Shadowlands, I assume that is also possible, but only possible if their soul is split, and one part remains grounded (and sane) in the physical universe. Though arguable that person will be missing a considerable chunk of themselves. (Wrathgate) Yes and no. I am under the impression people have inferred she knew, but things may have changed since I last looked at the topic. And Are we sure, no. Did the Arbitor judge her possibly but not confirmed.
There is one thing about your comment and arthas crap. Stratholm was infected so the only viable option was to kill them, really? Jaina or any of the mages could have suggested to freeze the denizens of that city until a cure is develop. Mages have that power. Also another viable option was to save the ones that were yet infected and seal them away in an alternate dimension. Or contain the entire city so there was truly no need to purge. That´s why the infinite dragon flight told he did something pretty stupid on the time dungeon back in wotlk. He was arthas all the way if you never play warcraft 3 then go now and have a good time. He also killed the mercenaries when pursuing malganis and he sacrificied his own man, abandon muradin to his fate. That arthas was already possesed? Because kelthuzad wasn´t there yet. He was fully aware and conscious of his actions. So arthas is the lich king and i swear if that mother fucker gets a redemption story it will fuck up his plot as the true bad guy of wow. I´ll dare to say he is by far, more dangerous than sargeras and his burning legion.
So I just want to make this 100% clear. This type of content will not be replacing the normal theories I produce (I am currently working on one about the Drust) and I know R.O.M.D are a considerable downgrade to the normal content I produce. I have never been good at presenting or talking and over time I hope to raise the quality to a significantly better standard, but I have to start somewhere. So if you have any feedback good or bad, I am quite willing to listen and willing to attempt to incorporate that feedback it into future R.O.M.D. Also if you liked the content leave a like, comment and share.
Helpful comment for channel growth. 😉
Thank you
Recently discovered your channel. Definitely found some interesting ideas that helped to rekindle interest in story. I am far from knowledgable when it comes to this topic, so I can only share a few observations.
Random idea about Sylvanas and why could she end up in the Maw if she would be judged by the Arbiter. It seems that the main reason to send a character somewhere is about how this character can "help" the current system, where the traits that the person has could be used to extract the maximal value for the whole anima harvest cycle. Now, if Sylvanas is a character who would no matter what try to rebel against this system, then she would have no place there. Hence, the only "suitable" place is the Maw, where rejected by the system could be thrown to.
When it comes to emotions, I believe there was something about souls not being fully connected to the body when it comes to undead. Plust, undead have negative emotions stronger, but barely any positive. Now, there is a rather "cruel" way to address it via the Light, but it not only brings back numbed sences, but also... brings back numbed senses. Which means, makes, say, forsaken, aware of them rotting, although slowly, etc. It can be done in some capacity, but not a faint of heart. I think that was quoted in forsaken wowpedia article part about how the light affect the forsaken.
I am not sure that the reason to control val'kyr has much to do with "future" of the forsaken, as much as that they might not be able to fulfil the pact. When Sylvanas died 1st time, it took 1 val'kyr to "trade" her out. 2nd time it took 3. So, unless it's a mistake, by the legion time frame, they are not capable of that part of the pact even if they would want to. And I do not think they want. The story about val'kyrs is stranger than it seems at the first glance, (IMO if they could, they would backstab Sylvanas the very first moment they get this opportunity without backfiring to them because of the pact). And Sylvanas after some event in early-ish Legion time frame, maybe meeting with Helia, maybe somehow else, learns about some things that val'kyrs never told to her. Like the need for more val'kyrs than she had, and ritual used on Nathanos that they kept as one of their secrets from Sylvanas.
gl hf
looking at the paused scene with uthers soul being split the white one reminds me of the look of the brokers.
Arthas redemption arc would be the biggest asspull in wow history, would be worse than a sylvanas redemption arc.
I guess my only question is, I assume your not a fan of Illidan's return or whats going on with Kael'thas in Shadowlands? (and on a very slim chance Garrosh as well.) I ask because I've run into a few people who don't have a consistent views the characters and I was just curious if you do see them differently why?
@@thedreadexpanse3817 Illidan and Kael'thas are both casualties of TBC's lackluster storytelling, they were both infamous characters like arthas and blizzard turned them into bosses just for recognition and hype, their story arcs came to an end without much reason for it.
Kael'thas i would argue has more story in TBC than Illidan, but the way blizzard changed him in TBC is very unrecognizable from how we last saw him in W3, my guess would be that W3 Kael'thas would be an unfit character to have as a raid boss.
the way they handled Illidan in TBC was just dirty though.
compared to those 2 arthas got everything, an entire expansion where he gets to defend the choices he made, and where he tries to prove that anyone would accept power for vengeance. He got everything a character could ask for, we saw the way he step by step was walking further away from the light, we saw him succumb to his rage, accepting power for a glimpse of revenge, all his goodness he threw away willingly, culminating in a last fight atop of ICC, his will against our will and finally he was defeated, he got closure unlike the other 2.
That being said, im not a fan of these "comebacks" of dead characters no matter the name, what i have seen is that blizzard has an incredible hard time making new remarkable characters, which is why imo MoP is the most memorable expansion when it comes to story, Legion, BFA and now shadowlands are all expansions that you can connect back to MoP Lore.
@@thedreadexpanse3817 dont get me wrong, i love arthas as a character, undead was the only faction i played in custom games becasue of him (and anub'arak), but because i think his story arc from w3 to WoTLK is so intriguing is the reason i dont wanna see him be brought back just because people cant accept that he truly became a villain, his character doesn't need redemption!!! we all know the reasons for the choices he made but still those choices were his own to make, he chose his destiny.
@@Lucatzz Thank you for the responses and yeah, I get it.
Yeah, I don't think they will redeem him. They might have him do a small cameo type thing, but I doubt they will redeem him. They know how beloved a character he is and how they need to tread carefully with his story.
You might know this now because of the art book for Shadowlands, but the reason souls in the Maw seem to lose their memory is due to the torment they suffer. It tears away at them until they are completely broken and subservient. This is said in the Maw part of the book.
I'd love to do a back and forth podcast thing with you sometime man. It's always fun discussing things with you.
What if the jailer wanted Arthas to be discovered by the Kyrian because he knew some would react harshly to the discovery. And therefore cause them to skip bringing Arthas to the Arbiter and instead plunging him directly into the Maw, and Arthas would have had a lot of Anima due to how powerful he was in life. This massive amount of Anima was now just dropped at the Jailer's doorstep for him to consume and regain much of his power. Which then allowed him to be able to send the Valkyr to bring Sylvanas' soul to the Maw so he could make a bargain with her.
The Arbiter does seem to judge based on morality and rules of the world the soul comes from. There is a Sinstone in Revendreth where one of the crimes the person did was sing, which is completely forbidden in their world.
I think she meant by "if he had purged his life." is that if Uther had purged his burdens of life to ascend, they would have never known of the atrocities that are happening in the living world and that an agent of the Maw was running rampant. I don't think she means if Arthas had fully purged Uther's life. But, maybe.
Undeath doesnt bring back just one part, it brings back all of it but the negative emotions are greatly heightened
Is it possible because of Uther's plea to the Light, he somehow skipped the Arbiter? My reason for this is he doesn't seem to remember Oribos (despite the art book mentioning that Oribos is the first place a soul will set their eyes upon when reaching the Shadowlands) or anything prior to being carried by Devos. And I doubt a Paragon would be one that would retrieve souls normally, it would probably be lower ranked Ascended unless directly ordered by say the Archon for some reason. The Paragons are busy training new aspirants and wouldn't be sent to go collect souls to bring to the Arbiter. Just a thought.
Yeah I have also been wondering why would Devos personally carry Uther to Bastion. She is a paragon after all, just like you have said. Honestly I cannot explain why she would come to carry Uther to Bastion.
@@shadowgamer4306 Yeah, it's strange for sure.
THREE VIDEOS IN A ROW!!!!!!!!!!!
It was never said that Sylvanas is morally grey, people have taken something that Ion has said and twisted it like a game of telephone. What was said is that the world of Azeroth isn't black and white it's made of shades of grey, or something to that effect. I just remember he never said she herself was morally grey.
There are some that compare Uther to Lucifer, being they share a title and all.
God dammit yes
The heart = his mortality, Mathias = the good side of Arthas
Saying it's over doesnt equal him being in a dream or being controlled
You are correct. It is a possibility though.
Ramble whenever. We like it. Well, i like it.
Y E S!!!!! sylvanas did not deserve to go to the maw. thank you.
Well The Jailer might have none that the Kyrians wouldn't believe this tale, and he would get notable allies which would be a great boon
Great job!
Arthas banished his humanity during his coma, if someone gets a redemption story Mathias Lehner should get it and become his own character while Arthas stays a villain 🤔
ohhhh good idea
rambling on revendreth when ?
I always like comment on your stuff to help you "make it."
Thank you
Why didnt they just create attendants to gather souls instead of forcing this hell on mortals
2 possibilities:
1: Gods are dicks, Greek style
2: The maw was going to exist anyways (Darkness/Chaos prison?), and so they either made souls go there or perhaps that was just how it naturally worked and they didn’t want to fuck with it for fear of releasing Chaos/Darkness
No Arthas redemption story pleaseeee lol
Arthas did nothing wrong. Once he touched frostmourne he was no longer Arthas.
@@RichardJamesStayAtHomeDad Negative, Arthas soul split in a way getting rid of the Light's influence becoming Mathias, so the rest of Arthas could become what he is truly meant to be
Man, i never i´ll inspire you to use my comment about uther being selfless when he wasn´t. You use what i told about tirion i´m glad you did. Cool, but uther is a complletely asshole. Culling of strathom and arthas descend to stupidity could have been stop if uther aside from refusing, would have try to stop him . What he did alone with jaina, turn the back on arthas and left. MAn i ´m truly glad you read and use my comments. Also, sorry about last time if i offended you, wasn´t my intention.
You didn't offend me. (If I ever am you'll know.) It was good conversation. I am sorry to tell you though, I had already made the content before we had that conversation, I had been told about how much of an ass Uther was ages ago.
I agree about Culling of Stratholm, Uther should have tried to stop Arthas.
@@thedreadexpanse3817 Good to know but there other actions describing uther as anything but slfless. A fucking asshole.
RANT:
I hate that people still calls Lich King as Arthas, dude was telling us that in I think Howling Fjord that he was a shaman once. Lich King was amalgram of bad sides of both mind (not soul) so it's normal that Lich King can call himself both shaman and paladin. Like Tichondrius said, first soul Frostmourne claimed was Arthas'. Illidan sacrifices his own people OH LORD ILLIDAN I'll be your asslicker, hailed as hero yet when Arthas' killed "Doomed" people to just to save kingdom Evil incarnate. What Arthas did in Stratholme was cutting gangrene part of body. Just play W3 and think what you can do about in that situation.
Call mages to summon? Let's just say Jaina goes to Kirin Tor, convinced them to cause, minimum you spent a day to gather mages while Mal'ganis killing and raising your precious humans as undead... Let's just say you let people out of there, how the hell you will tell apart infected people? It had to be done, noone had backbone to do that. Write my words, they will just gonna release couple of "bad" things he did when he was human (to retcon, before all these undead things) What I really afraid of that they will gonna use Jaina against him. Arthas' "soul" deserve peace, I hope this time when SL ends Uther and Jaina won't abandon him.
Also do we know that living creatures can be exist without soul? Imagine extracting soul without harming body? If it is indeed possible then, you can resurrect corpses with sane mind but their soul is in Shadowlands. Didn't DEVs said it was Sylvanas who was behind Wrathgate? Maybe because of that she saw Maw? Also I don't think she directly went to Maw, she just gazed over it before Arbiter judges her and before judging valkyries who belonged to her, brought her back. Are we sure that she will be in maw if she stayed there? Did Arbiter judge her? Also if that easy to bring people from Maw what's the point of it?
@@MrNetrizhul I never really though bringing Syl back was that easy though, the main Valkyrie literally had to trade places with Syl to get her out and to our knowledge that Valk has been there since.
To your other questions though, it kind of depends on what you define as "living", withered are technically living... technically.
I think this also depends on how you define resurrection, as in there are instance of corpses being brought back and filled with magic or possessed by other spirits. So what your suggesting is completely possible. Though if your referring to the idea that that same person can be res'd while being in the Shadowlands, I assume that is also possible, but only possible if their soul is split, and one part remains grounded (and sane) in the physical universe. Though arguable that person will be missing a considerable chunk of themselves.
(Wrathgate) Yes and no. I am under the impression people have inferred she knew, but things may have changed since I last looked at the topic.
And Are we sure, no. Did the Arbitor judge her possibly but not confirmed.
There is one thing about your comment and arthas crap. Stratholm was infected so the only viable option was to kill them, really? Jaina or any of the mages could have suggested to freeze the denizens of that city until a cure is develop. Mages have that power. Also another viable option was to save the ones that were yet infected and seal them away in an alternate dimension. Or contain the entire city so there was truly no need to purge. That´s why the infinite dragon flight told he did something pretty stupid on the time dungeon back in wotlk. He was arthas all the way if you never play warcraft 3 then go now and have a good time. He also killed the mercenaries when pursuing malganis and he sacrificied his own man, abandon muradin to his fate. That arthas was already possesed? Because kelthuzad wasn´t there yet. He was fully aware and conscious of his actions. So arthas is the lich king and i swear if that mother fucker gets a redemption story it will fuck up his plot as the true bad guy of wow. I´ll dare to say he is by far, more dangerous than sargeras and his burning legion.