A "black" Batman illustrates the point perfectly. Why didn't John Ripley create a new black superhero? Why did he have to take an already well established superhero and make him black? It stinks of virtue signalling and forced representation.
Exactly. A black person doesn't have to replace a white one to prove a point. If they really want to prove a point, they should have their own identity, not usurp another's. Replacing a male character with a female one is the same stupid thing. At the rate we're going, next thing you know they'll make a movie with a female Muhammad Ali or a gay male Marilyn Munro or a black Abe Lincoln.
Why didnt they use a real Indian as Tonto instead of Johnny Depp? Why didnt they use a real Egyptian as Black Adam instead of a half black Polynesian ?
It's heartbreaking to watch people in these shows get harassed for whatever creative direction their employers have or haven't taken. Lore aside, nobody's life should be threatened.
I'm fine with black characters in medieval fantasy settings. However, changing a white character to a black character is not creative. It is disagreeable. I do not appreciate conflating the two. Having a problem with a white character changed to a black character, does not mean having a problem with black inclusion and black representation and more black characters. I do not like it when the two separate things are conflated.
Agreed. I certainly hope the cops dig out anyone making racist threats. And that the actual racists are exposed for what they are. However . . . What of the legitimate criticism? Is that all to be shut down, labelling people as racists for raising their hands and asking questions? There’s no reason to tolerate racism. Yet some subjects are unsuitable for certain actors. I can’t imagine any legitimate reason to complain about black actors in Star Trek, Star Wars or the Marvel Universe. The line that these fantasies, “must reflect the world we live in today,” is fine. But it’s just daft to have black actors in The Lord Of The Rings. Tolkien created a world based on old Norse, ancient Germanic and ancient Celtic mythology. It doesn’t upset me at all to see people being just wrong about their artistic choices. But, to be told, “Nope! Not listening!” to anyone questioning the logic of altering the basis of Tolkien’s myths at a genetic level is just a cowardly way of shutting down debate and labelling people as, “racists,” for simply disagreeing. There will always be those who are just racists, and who hate what’s happening for racist reasons. I have no time for racists. But that should not be an excuse to shut down adult discussion over the meaning of art and why interfering with Tolkien’s vision is disrespectful to his legacy. That’s NOT a racist point of view. Merely an artistic criticism. The images are jarring and look misplaced, because they don’t represent the world that Tolkien created over an entire lifetime of hard work, research and creative endeavour. It is not up for debate, any more than people’s racism is. The whole point of Tolkien’s fantasy was that it does NOT, “reflect the world we live in today.” It reflects a mythical time in a place based on Northern European culture and genuine mythology that shaped their real worlds. Why should the people’s of these cultures be content to have their stories altered and distorted to fit some modern political agenda? It seems like a tone deaf overcorrection by people who lack the imagination to create their own mythology to me. The fact that the show has an awful, illogical script that disrespects the characters Tolkien created, hijacks their motivations and misrepresents the meanings of Tolkien’s work is not relevant. But it does seem like people who are too quick to put all criticism down to racism have an inbuilt excuse for failure. If we don’t like the show, simply because it’s rubbish, does that make us racists? Come on?
@@joshmoonXY : I am forced to agree. It’s not about racism or sexism when you see a character that you have come to know over years of fandom being altered in gender or race. If we had been given Toni Stark as Iron Woman 10 years ago, everyone would be asking, “why?” In the same way, this show has turned out to be bad, but largely due to terrible writing. Galadriel is represented as being bitchy, permanently angry, hostile and disloyal in this. That’s NOT the Galadriel Tolkien created. In the same way that he didn’t create any black halflings or dwarfs, simply because he’d spent a LIFETIME lovingly creating a mythical world that was based on ancient Norse, Celtic and Germanic myths. If people would be offended by Robert Downey Jr playing Geronimo, Sitting Bull, Malcolm X or Gandhi, are we not allowed to be equally disconcerted by ancient Northern Europeans being misrepresented? Does the history from which Tolkien’s myths were culled not count for anything? It seems an unfair way to want to have it both ways. And it’s deeply devious and bad faith to write off all criticism as being, “racist,” out of the gate.
We're is the proof? This is bs. I guess someone here will say I'm racist cause I don't agree. The author of the original story has a right to there creations. And there fans have a right to defend it. Racism has no place anywhere, different opinions shouldn't be called racist. Also almost every show they mention here have been horribly written. There just bad shows.
You don't want to believe that these people are being harrassed and so you want to see proof. But then when they show you proof would actually believe it or call it fake? You know full well these people are receiving a lot of racist comments online.
@@melodramatic7904 Most of the people “accused” of getting hate are often put out to dry on purpose by the movie producers in order to cover for their bad writing.
And the token black characters. Not like "black subcultures or black populations in Tolkien races" . . . just literally they made one black elf, two black hobbits, and one black dwarf. And all of them are total cringe who have no affect on the actual story.
I wonder who got the idea that fictional characters must be white, like WHY? The Dwarf princess is beautiful in her costume, her skin is stunning, all skin colors are beautiful and my hope is that younger generations have a kinder heart than us. Humanity, do better!
@@KissyRitzy are you talking about the Aquaman 2018 film? Well the actor still looks Caucasian to me. And I don't remember that happening to the genie in Aladdin. Did that happen towards the end of the film?
@@joshmoonXY Jason Momoa isn't white, not only but also just Google what the original character is supposed to look like and come back to this topic. We pick what we want to pick.
@@KissyRitzy I know Jason Momoa is not white. I said he looks white(Caucasian). And I can't find images of Aqua Man other than being a white male with blonde hair.
But how come when talks of inclusion and diversity ends up having black characters and not Latinos, Asians, indians, Inuits, or pacific Islanders? Why is black the default color to represent diversity?
because over 90 percent black vote democrat and questioning these decisions is perceived to be a white republican thing. So the media act as the protector. Also, nothing garners clicks more than white vs black, so the media needs it.
Have you seen the many movies and TV shows where diversity and inclusion was definitely the theme for most of the ehtnicities you listed? West Story (2021), Quantum Leep (2022-present), Shang Chi (2021), Father of Bride (2022) Fresh Off The Boat (2015-2020), Dr. Ken (2015-2017), NCIS Hawaii (2022-present), Hawaii 5-0 (2010-2020) . Just to name a few. That's all that's on tv and in the movies now. So what are you even talking about? People want more and this is not the 1950s.
@@manny.3248representation and inclusion is great. Taking a character who is familiar and recognized as fair skin and changing the skin color to black, that is not fine. Because it makes the character unrecognizable and unfamiliar by changing their outward appearance. And unless I am mistaken, skin complexion is part of a character's overall appearance. Race swapping white to black as a solution to inclusion and representation amending America's racist history, is obtuse. Instead of creating new original black characters.
Personally, all that matters to me is how well the story is told and the performance of the actor. As for the backlash and racist attacks, racist nerds (in this categorical sense) have existed for decades. It's just that now with how much the internet has grown that these asshats have a mouthpiece and get the spew their BS.
That's patently untrue. Surely you've heard of pen and paper? There's also this thing called the U.S. Postal Service that does something with these bits of paper people have written on. Edit: Actually, racism has existed for as long as modern humans have. That's about 80,000 years.
@@thomasdequincey5811 Lol, no, it hasn't. Our modern concept of race is only about 200 or so years old. You mean prejudice? Yeah, that's always existed.
Other think differently. Others appreciate consistency with the character's appearance. Changing the characters appearance, alienates and unfamiliarizes the fans with the characters.
i agree the new lord rings series is a sh#tshow...nothing to do with racism but how the story is being told and produced is key to getting an audience...with all the social media availibility there is clear signs of individuality of racism.
This was never a problem in 80s, 90s and early 2000s media. Diversity (real diversity) was everywhere. People are rejecting this recent trend of forced corporate diversity quotas and pandering media because it's garbage quality and insulting to the intelligence of audiences. The icing on the cake is that when fans don't watch and/or voice their disapproval, these corporations and the activist stars attack them, making audiences even more resentful. Go woke, go broke.
Isn't everyone in this video upset that people are upset about it? Should THEY go sit in a corner and cry about it? Or is telling someone to "go sit in a corner and cry about it" just a petulant remark that misses the point entirely?
Changing the race of existing characters is not right any way you spin it .New characters on the other hand are fine obviously but context is important. If it's the year 200 in iceland you won't have an African American present. Same as I would be offended if Martin Luther king was played by a white man .
I agree. If a character is a associated with a certain feature, and if that feature just happens to be skin color, the change in that teacher makes the character unfamiliar and unreganizable
Playing Martin Luther King is not the same even though I believe it has been done in some plays. And that's is because his race and ethnicity is tied to history completely. But tbh I wouldn't want a black person to play George Washington either because to me it's the same thing as well. And you're right it would odd to see a black person in Iceland in the year 200 unless there is some sort of explanation like the fact that the continental plates were once connected and they could be a lost tribe. But people have the right to do whatever they want with any character they have the rights too. So for the people who disguise there racism by gaslighting and acting like their issue is one of substance and reasonable you'll aren't fooling anybody. And yeah there are some good arguments. But I guarantee you can tell who these people voted for or at least who they support politically. Nuff said.
Make new black characters instead. What most ppl don’t like is when you change an existing character’s race. But I don’t really care because it’s fictional.. The funniest thing out of this issue is that black and white aren’t the only colors…
I agree but that may also be a double-edged sword. The Inquisitor from Kenobi was an original character who had an interesting story, but people didn't like her because she was constantly butting into the bigger story which was supposed to be Obi Wan vs Vader.
I'm a Native American writer. I write for African American readers too. Some of my most hateful critics identify as "black". I tend to highlight that identifying as white or black- by color codification, causes segregation instead of unification.
@@moctezuma1341, I'm Quetzalcoatl aka Kukulkan aka Jesus Christ in tHis second coming- in tHis Native form. If you see "white" skin, it is only because your soul is dark and evil- and I don't mean ebony.
Everything you just wrote literally sounds like a well-crafted lie…. i’ve been following this hateful racist phenomenon for about 15 years and the overwhelming majority of these haters are white please stop the BS
Depending on the individual, the critiques of current TV and movie writing and casting can range from outright racism to honest critiques of poor writing and production. I've heard some folks suggest that TV and filmmakers are bating fans to drum up controversy and increase press around poorly written and/or produced productions. I've also seen comments by fans that are disgusting in their overt racism. I think that we can increase diversity in narrative universes such as Star Wars, GOT, MCU, RE and LoTR in a manner that won't trigger fans. Production companies shouldn't retcon these beloved franchises. They should hire qualified writers who are deeply immersed in the lore who can competently write in diverse characters in a way that fits the lore. It's challenging as writer, but it can be done. I say call out the racists for being racist AND call out the TV and movie production companies for hiring incompetent writers and producers who ruin excellent franchises like Star Wars. These are two different issues happening simultaneously. Unfortunately, they are inextricably linked because universes like Star Wars are telling less coherent and engaging stories WHILE they hire more diverse casts. Write better stories that fit the lore and write new characters to represent diverse populations in a way that doesn't retcon. All of these universes are massive, allowing for new characters without retconning by competent writers who know the universe they are writing for.
@@RPGreg2600 thanks for the correction. Where I'm from we pronounce it more like "lure," but now that you mention it, I see the error. Folklore vs fishing lure. Oops - lol.
The main issue is people don’t understand that if a person of color auditions and they are the best audition then they earned the part. For example the little mermaid was chosen for the best audition. And this is pure capitalism - something the far right should understand …
@@dominickjvlogs Not sure if you're suggesting I'm a part of the far-right. I've voted D my entire voting-age life, I served in the Peace Corps for 3 years, and my professional career in the US has been spent advocating for immigrant rights. I now work in public education, and I'm a proud member of my local Teacher's Union. I also studied literature in college, so I feel confident in my ability to assess the cohesiveness of writing across a narrative universe because I've got two years of practice doing it in undergrad. Neither of us know if your statement is accurate because we haven't seen the casting tapes or talked to the people who casted your example of Ariel in the live-action Little Mermaid. Personally, my critiques have to do with retconning characters. I also see a pattern where writing is getting really lazy, lacking cohesion, and ruining previously well-written characters and narrative universes. It's unfortunate that shitty writing is happening ever more often as casting choices become more diverse. Humans tend to find patterns and relationships where they don't really exist, and I think some of our white-nationalist neighbors really are frustrated by shitty writing and retconning, and their racism is blending with their frustration over retconning and poor writing and showing up as blatant racist harassment of actors who are just doing what they are paid to do. It's unfortunate, but it's more complex than you seem to be letting on.
Have that not done that for many years already though? How many white people have gotten a roll because of their skin color even when they sucked at acting? Let’s be real. Fortunately so far the black actors can also act.
Nobody should be harassed for playing a character on TV or movies. But logic and lore shouldn't be ruined and distorted just for the sake of diversity. Why not just make an original fantasy show with black characters. That'd be dope. Look at Wakanda in Black Panther it's an awesome world an original fantasy show with imagery like that would be awesome. Corlys in House of Dragon is an awesome character and the actor does great...but it makes no sense to the lore of that world that he's black.
Well then we’d better first correct all the paintings and movies that depict Jesus Christ as a white and blue eyed. Logically he should be brown eyed and skinned according to his ethnicity and birth place. The Bible isn’t considered a fantasy/lore so accuracy of the original should be important, after all logic shouldn’t be ruined or distorted.
@@calidreams5379 first of all, Middle easterns are not exclusively brown or dark skin. Second of all. Jesus Christ is as much of a mythological figure as he is historical. I consider white Jesus to be his mythical counterpart. Lastly. As I've said. Jesus Christ is a religious and mystical icon. It's not the same as a fictional character such as Peter Parker or Clark Kent. Or Naruto. Or Luffy.
@@calidreams5379 Well they can fix it I don't care lol Jesus is the same as Gandalf in LotR to me just a fantasy character. But do they go into detail in the Bible about Jesus skin color?? That's a genuine question cuz I don't know
@@joshmoonXY 1. First of all they were stated to be black/brown in subjects about “Mediterranean” people Me citing it is doable despite it having dated term for a black person that will easily trigger UA-cam’s auto delete. What I know is not easily citable are various surmised views that do not substantiate what people who came up with those terms in the first place have been saying. “Middle East” was coined since the 1850’s post Suez Canal 2. It’d be Yahushua or Joshua, however most people are use to the English version. He was talked about and even mocked by Romans then such as one artwork graffiti of Yahushua supposedly crucified with a donkey head in an attempt to make Messianic believers appear foolish. 3. The two are not that far apart to people who do not believe whether to be another religion or none at all.
There's no reason why diversity can't exist in sci-fi world. However, instead of changing an existing character and start changing their gender or ethnicity, why not just create a new character entirely? Why do we need to do a black Spiderman, black batman, or black Ariel? Why not just create a new ethnicity heros that can take place in the same universe? A good example is the black panthers. Cap America, is a white Character up until End Game before he passed his shield to the Falcon - I'm all for that. But if you try to sell me a black cap America as the first Avenger, that's just wrong from the sources comic.
and changing a bunch of roles because of race is actually admitting you were being racist in past so, what do you do now hollywood?? Now that we know you could have made more roles of color??? and if you are choosing actors based on color today so you do not look racist, you are actually being racist to make up for being racist???? and repeat
Biggest thing that sucks today is when they make caricatures rather then characters, look at miles morales spider man, great original character, now look at snowflake and safespace, and just imagine now if instead of adapting miles morales you just made peter parker black, it'd immediately get backlash
It really wasn't that diversity was the issue, is how TERRIBLE the characters were written. House of Dragon Vs Rings of Power. Perfect example. House Valaryion is EPIC and refreshing. Everyone from Amazon's fan fiction is a DISASTER. When production companies actually write good characters most of society doesn't care about skin colour, but when it is literally unwatchable is when criticism is merited. Also in Kenobi she genuinely was HORRIBLE. Everything about that mini series is terrible and it pains me that it was even made.
I agree with more representation in fantasy, it doesn't make sense to have it any other way. But they don't even give us an idea of why people are "being racist" or "backlashing," maybe you could cover the actual controversy instead of virtue signaling over and over again?
I think the NBA should require at least 2 white guys on every team!!!!!!!! HOW ABOUT THAT???? more whites being represented in Basketball!!! funny how it is OK to be racist when you are the minority
I’m Latino and this is what I think. Where’s the Latinos, where the Indians, where’s the Asians, where’s the Japanese, where’s the other races??? Black people have a lot of roles in Hollywood and we don’t. But you don’t see us crying about it
It’s only an issue when they replace white characters with blacks. They need to develop new characters for non whites. Imagine Ryan gosling playing the black panther. Al sharpton would be on every channel.
It's not that it's racist. Ok maybe a little. However it just looks forced like ,"here is black people deal with it." What is the context? "There is none but here deal with it. Or you are racist".
This is absolutely ridiculous, People don't understand why cuz they're not real fans of the work. Fans are upset because you're ruining the original work or changing it to your modern tones. If there was a original black story like wakada or fresh prince , bad boys , People aren't as upset because they're original takes. I think it's ridiculous messing with original literature just because you want to feel included. I'm Asian You don't see me complaining cuz I'm not in every damn movie. Next time you do fresh Prince of Bel-Air number two or three or bad boys with a Asian cast I would still be annoyed. If you want to be included so bad, make new stories. Stop messing with old traditional tales.
omg...please think about what you said. jesus. House of the Dragon, Rings of Power, Obi-Wan are all adaptations of the original story....NEW STORIES. They're not original work or canon as you fanboys call it... these are not even fans that complain...they're saying people that have a different skin tone shouldn't be playing these roles because it doesn't fit their ideals. So yes you are a racist because you are justifying that these black actors are ruining the original work which these aren't even original work! They are adaptations!!
@@SuperDuckyNarwhal they arnt black in the original story, idk how you can't comprehend. House of dragon was written by Martin, Ring of powers 2nd age is written Tolkien. These already have great depictions takes. Especially the middle earth story has been passed down for generations, even my dad and grandfather read those books. There's a reason these stories passed the test of time. Rings of power writers pretty much just shat all over his story. In the interview with Peter Jackson, he tried create a world as best he can to Tolkien's work, with out putting his views into it. That's how ppl should work with stories based on books. There's even a new story coming out with an Asian elf as one of the main characters. I'm not happy to see that at all. They don't needed to be added if it's not in the original piece. Ring of Power on the other hand did the race swap pretty well. I honestly thought it was find turning the valyrians into black people. It didn't ruin the story as much. But I still rather have a faithful adaption. Obi-wan story sets up obi-wans character to be terrible and doesn't justify the character that was originally created by Lucas films. There hasn't been one good story from the Disney acquisition, asides from Rouge one.
@@SuperDuckyNarwhal also as mentioned. You don't need to have minorities replacing every original character that wasn't black or w.e to begin with. If a black person replaced the next Mulan , I would be pissed. If an Asian replaced the next bad boys movie I would be pissed. Some race swapping isn't necessary. Make some damn original movies with black and mix characters. Don't mess with original lore.
That's the thing though, activists and actual creative people don't mix, it's like cowboy bebop, the anime was made by creative people, the netflix adaptation was made by activists who didn't even watch the anime, these people can't make anything new so they just leech off the past artists, why? Because they know they can't write a hit series that's why
@@maxgong009 Nobody cares if your grandfather read anything. If you know the book so much then please enlighten everyone the page and chapter where it says what color the skin is. And even if it does....IT DOESN'T MATTER. IT'S A FAKE STORY. It's fantasy. If they want to remake it with all black actors, that's fine too. Are you going to spend your time watching the movie and then complain about online spouting it's a travesty? THEN DON'T WATCH IT. No, instead you and your racist fanboys have a hate-filled circle jerk online. Chill the F(*( out.
When writing a story it's best to keep to your author's intended lore, story and included characters. When things are shoehorned in for political or racially charged reasons that should be kept to their own story which in my opinion would be watched by those that would enjoy that scenario knowing what they're getting themselves into. Taking already established stories and telling the fan base to watch it only takes the lore and throws it in a trash can and shows how much you care for the original story and the fans that enjoyed it, why not just make your own story instead of playing off the fans? Take this from someone who does writing for stories that has to litterally do with almost every race under the sun while the main character is a giant walking turtle. Do you think people would be upset the main character is a giant badass turtle just cause it doesn't look like them or would it be a misrepresentation of turtles? Or are we only allowed to write about our own race? When you start making authors question every creative decision they make you're left with bland, dull and obviously tailored stories with no real heart.
Amazing words never used before when white people were playing all different races, we could have used these words long long time ago. Heck we could have even used these words when they used a white actor to play a real black hero on September 11. Its time to share the stage
Sometimes we may not like something and it’s ok. Representation matters. People don’t got to be rude, threatening, and cruel. That’s all. One day, our children’s children’s children will all be of mixed race, culture, etc. And they’ll become stars that play all types of roles. It’s time to welcome representation and change. Hate only begets hate. Peace.
Having a problem with white characters changed to black is not the same as having a problem with black inclusion and black representation. Just because there are white people who have a problem with the former, does not mean they have a problem with the ladder. Of course, there are indeed white people who have a problem with the ladder. Unfortunately.
@@joshmoonXY When a person of color plays a role that is deemed a “white” person, it’s wrong, it’s not part of history. Then when a white actor takes a minority role, people argue, best actor with skill acquires the role. How can the actor of color learn and showcase its skill if he/she can’t play a “white” role or a role that seems geared towards his/her own race? What room is there? To build a more equal, fairer playing ground, allow for more representation, yes, roles deemed “white” will have to be changed. However, the opposite cannot be. There’s already not enough minority representation or roles, that is why changes were made. To continue allowing whites to play people of color is going backwards. Already getting long so I won’t even start on this “white” fantasy role created from made up history and such. The only time I think (loosely) it matters is biographical or memoirs turned movies. Even then, it’s acting. Ariel can be anything. One can have a full black cast in these GOT shows and honestly, I don’t see an issue. It’s fiction, ffs. People really need to stop with the craziness.
@@shouzfang7154 well for starters, a characters appearance makes them recognizable and familiarized. And last time I checked, skin color is a part of a character's appearance You change a character's skin color, it makes the character look unrecognizable. And unfamiliar. It's the same thing if you change a character's hair color. If audience associate and are familiar with a character having blonde hair, and the character hair color is changed to brunette, it would cause the audience like myself to feel alienated and unfamiliar with the character. Also whitewashing is not okay either. It wasn't okay during the live adaptation of Avatar The last Airbender, and it's not okay now. Just because the characters are fictional does not justify fans should not get upset over a change of skin color. Because characters are recognized by their appearance. And appearance includes skin color. Change the skin color and you changed the overall appearance of the character. And the character becomes unfamiliar and un recognizable and alienated. As I've said. Black inclusion can be done without changing. White characters to black characters. Just because why people have actively only creative white characters due to races. Reasons, does not justify changing white characters who are recognized and established as white to black. As I've said. Black inclusion is fine. Race swapping white to black is not. And neither is whitewashing. Some people like to pretend they are more or morally superior by saying they don't care about skin color. However, fans always have appreciated a character's appearance. And appearance includes skin color and hair color. There's no justification and switching white characters to black characters in the name black inclusion and black reputation.
@@shouzfang7154 so yes. White people who have tried to justify whitewashing in the past are hypocrites. However. The opposite is also unacceptable for establish white characters even if they are fictional. It's unacceptable because it changes to the characters overall appearance and alienates fans such as myself Don't get me wrong. A character does not have to look like me or share my skin color in order for me to like them. I am saying changing a character skin color. It's no different than changing their hair color. It's a change that makes the character unfamiliar and unrecognizable because they are changing physical traits, fans like myself have associated with the character for a long time. Be it skin color. Hair color. Hair length. Eye color. Or even bloody earrings.
@@shouzfang7154 It's only acceptable when it comes to voice acting, fictional characters in fictional settings. For example. The protagonist of the video game series God of War is literally described as having skin as pale as a ghost. Yet he is voiced by a black person that is acceptable to me because voice acting is different than actual role playing.
I stand with Halle Bailey playing Ariel. I stand with Kelly Marie Tran. I stand with Meghan Markle. I stand with Moses Ingram. I stand with Barack Obama I stand with George Floyd. I stand with Kamala Harris. I stand with every celebrity of color.
It is truly despicable that this kind of bigotry and ignorance is still so prevalent in this day and age. These are fantasy characters, it's not like having a black actor portray Abraham Lincoln. Why can't Ariel be a black girl or the dwarf princess be a woman if color? It is about damn time that children can see themselves represented in a positive way on screen!
Changing a character's appearance and skin color makes them unfamiliar and unreganizable. That's why it's wrong. Inclusion can be done without race swapping.
@@joshmoonXY where does it state that Ariel or Cinderella are white? Just because they have been portrayed as white until know does not mean that they cannot be black in future versions of the story. How does allowing children of other races see themselves portrayed as the princess, or prince for that matter make it wrong?
@@helenannviccora7743 why do black children need to see themselves in a character or princess that has already been white. Why can't they see themselves in new characters introduced? Why is the solution for black inclusion, black representation, black opportunity being switching white characters to black characters. Instead of, creating new black characters? Why is the latter never an option? I find it obtuse that the solution for black representation and black inclusion is changing white characters to black. Instead of creating or writing new original black characters.
@@helenannviccora7743 and by the way. Heimdall is mentioned to be white in the lore. Yet he is still changed anyway. So what's the point of saying "where is the source that says Cinderella and Ariel are white" when white characters are going to get changed anyway to black regardless, if it's source, describe some as a specific skin complexion? If you're going to do it anyway. There is no point in bringing it up the source material.
@@helenannviccora7743 to rephrase. There is no point in bring up the source material if skin color is changed anyway, even if the source material describes a character as having a specific skin color. For example, Heimdall.
That Character represents a culture, a nationality, and a race. If the character's significance isn't tied to race or nationality then him being whatever nationality is irrelevant. Pocahontas for example is tied to her culture and heritage. Only a native should play her. The Terminator in the last movie was played by Gabriel Luna, of Latin decent. It could be race or nationality because the terminator is not tied to any culture or race. So wanting something to be a certain race just for the sake of being that race because it always has been is erroneous and could be subconscious racism even if one doesn't think it is. Have to get away from that type of thinking and bring the world together. Probably would help if they created all new ORIGINAL stories and characters that can fit into any culture. Then people couldn't complain.
@@kbeats2001 You're right in regards to Pocahontas and the Black panther However characters are recognizable by their appearance. And last time I checked, skin color is a part of appearance. Changing a fictional character's skin color is wrong because it alienates the character and the character no longer looks familiar or recognizable because one of their recognizable features has been changed. Which just happens to be skin complexion. It would be the same thing if a blond character was changed to brunette. It would be a problem because fans do not attribute or associate the character having brown hair. They associate the character having blonde hair. It is similar in regards to skin color. Don't get me wrong. As a white person, characters don't have to look like me in order for me to be interested in them and relate to them. However, if they are changed appearance-wise, then they are no longer recognizable or familiar. And thus, I become alienated. Fans, like myself, appreciate a character's appearance, just as much as the character's story or background. A character appearance, makes them recognizable. Changing their appearance, including skin color, makes them unrecognizable and non-familiar. And all of that. It's just one thing. Black inclusion and black representation is another. Do not conflate the two.
@@kbeats2001 well theirs white south africans, albino africans, and muslim arabs in the north, like people say its fictional it's all fictional, so why not change it?
IS NOT RACISM! The same outrage will suffer if anyone makes Black Panther played by a White Actor. The level of ignorance to tell a fan that his/her character is now different. Can anyone understand what is the definition of a fan. The Lord of The Rings: The Rings of Power is NOT based on J.R.R. Tolkien's work. The fan that reads the books and goes in depth on every character, the history of the Elves, Men, Dwarves, Hobbits, Ents, Orcs and Trolls, every side story, every detail, etc. knows better than any network that careless produces a TV show or film. And the level of ignorance to claim Cosplaying is the same thing as Casting an actor. EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT THERE IS NOT GENDER, RACE, BODY TYPE, ETC. IN COSPLAY. DUH!!! Respect the fan or loose money!. No one can make any fan to watch careless production.
I don't think a white black panther is a good example. I think a better example is changing a character's hair color. Fans would still notice and complain about it.
That is what I say, what happens when the role of Martin Luther King gets played by Tom Hanks, or better yet George Washington being played by Denzel Washington?
Everyone should have a place in the fantasy world. Getting excited about characters and the worlds they inhabit has always been a great joy for me; it’s a joy everyone should have. As for our black dwarf in Power of the Ring, she’s the highlight for this fan!
Wakanda, look what y'all done started! After Lt. Uhura in Star Trek....you know full well blacks and sci-fi were not supposed to be synonymous in tv and films. If it's not a story about rags to riches, drug addiction, homicides and poverty, it's going to be a tall order trying to convince the "tv/film industry" that we belong in any other genres. Black Panther, Blade...The Cosby Show, Star Trek etc. If I was wrong about anything I just wrote, this whole video wouldn't be an issue of contention in the first place.
Cannot wait for a white or an asian king or queen as the next black panther....just like a black mermaid...🙄 If it isnt a lesbian or gay character...the wokewood slot in a black actor to fulfil the woke check box. 🙄 Sophia is great. But she was represented as an original character that happen to be black. The little mermaid was white with red hair.....and hold and behold.....to gain woke points.....they slot in a black mermaid. Falcon was fine with Mackey.....because he was the original actor to play that character. Watch the shitstorm if the Falcon being replaced with a white actor next.
For years white actors have been playing roles that was made for minorities. Minorities sat back watched it and enjoyed it, we watched Johnny Depp play Tonto an Indian. But now when the situation changes and the roles is reversed you want to talk about staying true to the Character?? I will concede only one thing, real life characters in movies ( NOT PLAYS ) should be kept to its original.
While new ones would be great too, there are still people who love the originals and it’s nice that the originals can be more relatable to us. Little Mermaid was my favorite as a young girl. I’m 34 now. I’m thrilled that the new little mermaid looks more like me. I wouldn’t have wanted them to just make some other mythical creature specifically to have someone who looks like me play them. We need both.
I mean if the character is described a certain detailed way then yeah stick with the source material, and if it’s open to interpretation then by all means
@@Allaiya. You know many millennia ago, the Earth was described as flat! So it makes sense that if we cannot accept change in fiction, we should not accept it in reality either! HINT: It's called sarcasm!
@Meow adaptation is not the same thing as a reboot, or remake. Adaptation is a transition of media. Not changing the characters or the story. Adaptation is from paper to theater. Or the opposite. Besides. Look at what happened to the adaptation of the live action movie of Avatar The last Airbender. The director had the right to creative liberties and look happened there. Just because it is, it's an adaptation. Does not mean the directors should get to change what the characters look like. It did not work in Avatar The last Airbender, and it does not work now.
@Meow true you’re never given a description of the Hobbits other than that they’re small, have big feet with hair on them, but I’m referring to shows like House of the Dragon where House Velaryon is depicted as black but in the books is a tradition Valyrian family
I LOVE every show they mentioned, didnt even cross my mind about that they are black. BLEW MY MIND people are actually bothered by it. People need to get over there selfs.
As a fan of Lord of the Rings and Scifi/Fantasy in general WTF. I love comics and SF/F because it's always been the first place for representation. As a Latina diving into the nerd world made so much sense. Anyway, the issues with Rings of Power are not the people of color. They need to work on the story telling (Tolkien is rolling in his grave because of the storytelling not the race of characters). Also Sophia is amazing in the show!!!
Have you read the LOTR? The only black people in it come from the East and fight on Sauron's side. That's because Middle-Earth is clearly a representation of medieval Europe with some Gods and Magic thrown in. Putting black people in it and making everyone "play nice" destroys the truth and reality of that world. Why doesn't someone write their own new fantasy novel and people entirely with black people? I can guarantee you that apart from a few people pointing out the hypocrisy not a single white person would care.
I bet everyone would feel differently if black panther was replaced with someone not black and no this comment is NOT racist is what is racist is replacing a character who was of a different skin color just to fit an fascist agenda
Amazon bought an established IP for it's lore and its fan base so backlash should be expected and well deserved, it would be like making Black Panther and replacing main characters and the Wakandans with white people the outrage would be legendary and black actors would be on every news show crying how "their" culture is being whitewashed, in this case it is white culture being "blackwashed" and neither is acceptable.
It matters when they were already white and switched to a different color. That's the problem. Not black representation in fantasy and sci-fi. This whole segment, was one big straw man.
@@The07One no I disagree. I like the characters looking like the characters as I know them as. It would be the same thing if a blond character was changed to brunette hair character. It may be fiction and fantasy, but it is disagreeable to change a character's skin color for no reason. Having Luffy or Naruto or Deku as blac makes no sense. If you know those characters.
There's SO much diversity in Africa and the BLOCKBUSTER movies that come from there should be a testament to the wyt people of Hollywood of how it's done. We NEED to replace EVERY traditional wyt character NOW !
It's not as simple as they make it out to be. If a show like Star Trek establishes a multi-racial universe with gender and racial equality from the start, then no one cares about the races or genders of the actors. It all blends together seamlessly. But when a universe or franchise has heroes or creatures already established as looking a certain way, and then they're suddenly changed due to societal pressure (as opposed to for some logical reason within that universe), then fans get annoyed. Fantasy and sci-fi are used to escape from reality and the problems with modern society, and these radical changes pull them out of the show and back into reality. There should absolutely be diversity on screen, but it doesn't need to be shoehorned in where it doesn't make sense. Imagine if there were a handful of random Caucasians living in Wakanda. That would be really dumb and wouldn't make sense. The same holds true for random black actors showing up amongst the elves. Yes, it's all make-believe, but there should be an internal logic to things.
I don't see the issue with inclusion i just think it's weird when they change a well established character for the act of inclusion but i also understand why they do it. Star was and ring of fire characters are new. Also marvel already black characters granted not many. I see no issue with black mermaids it's just odd when generations of kids grew up on one things and it changes for them. I would hate if my favorite character changed but i wonder if i would feel the same if that character represented me ethnically. Bc there aren't many latin characters either. It's interesting namor is of Aztec/mayan origins now but im not doesn't really affect me either way because I was never into that character.
force feeding you racism right now, that is what hollywood is doing. Making up for all of hollywood's racism of the past by being more racist today!!!!!
@CreativePerson Quote: "Any book or movie lesson on equality and tolerance can be told just as well with fantasy characters of other species *regardless of colors*." Then you agree, the color of the characters is not an issue, so it's fine to change... time to move on. Unless... you are contradicting yourself, and believe that it will make a difference to you, if the characters are not white. So the question becomes: "Does it make any difference to you if they are not white?"
@CreativePerson there is a sense of connection when you see yourself in a character and if they happen to look like you it's build a sense of pride as if you could somehow be them. but really your right there's no need for it. I might not have a connection to transformers but I'd like to be one of have one lol
People of color have portrayed characters in said genres for decades now, from Lando Calrissian to Geordie LaForge, from Spawn to Blade and so on. I wouldn`t want it any other way.
I have no option but to be neutral because being Puertorican I understand that there will never be fair representation. If a person speaks Spanish, they are Mexican, if it is a black person, you are only good as a black American from the "hood" and if you're white, well...KKK, white trash or black wanna be. It is sad to see that people close their eyes to te world and have to relay on a movie to see a piece of who they might be. I just remember that this are make believe and keep on going.
I think it depends on the material. If it’s historical, I think that’s a bit more questionable. If it’s fantasy, well as long as it doesn’t directly negate the lore/story, I think it’s fine. Representation is important. But what matters most is the story & making sure each character is well written & has substance. Personally, I really like the Velyarons in HOTD. Corlys looks so badass in his armor & his character is interesting & distinct. The RoP I haven’t watched because I heard it severely changed the lore in not a good way & wasn’t that great. Now someone pointed out to me that there seems to be some trend of replacing the red haired characters with black actors. So I guess the gingers might be a little bitter about it. Lol
I think it needs to equal. if youre gonna make hermione blk in harry potter (which is fine whatever), then you cant get mad if they made a traditionally blk hero ...white. like really who cares in this day and age, i just dont watch any movie that caters to woke culture any way.
I'm with you on changing the race of historical figures. But fictional characters? For me that's perfectly fine. It's all about the writing. And by writing I mean the absence of preaching. I think Idris Elba would make a fantastic James Bond. And if they could write a script that didn't focus on racial Injustice and just stick to formulaic James Bond plot I'd be thrilled.
@@Allaiya. he's been quoted as saying he's not interested in the role. And according quotes attributed to the producers, it's like a 10-year commitment. I read that as a contractual obligation to be involved in a number of movies. That might be the root of the problem.
Black people are already represented hugely in all forms of media. Upwards of 40% in TV and Movie appearances. Despite being only half that proportion. Stop whining about representation when you ALREADY HAVE IT.
The new star wars, and rings of power just suck and my opinion on that has nothing to do with the color change in the characters. The actors would have been better paired in a rom-com rather than sci-fi and the characters are lame attempts at rewriting stories that were already good. Now when it comes to House of the Dragon I haven't heard a single complaint about there being melanated valerians, honestly it's added a whole new aspect that makes it totally better than it was in the books and everybody seems to love it. But ABC probably wouldn't have Aires the story if it had went that way.
Look you can represent someone’s race in a movie but when you’ve hanged characters who’ve been one way for 50 years just to make sure there’s one color of each person is ridiculous. Write new stories, ex. Black Adam. As a white man thatsbshits dope. But don’t expect me to feel sorry for actors who make millions because they’re feelings are hurt. Do something original and I bet all this hate goes away. Oh and some of these actors stir up fake racial controversy to sell their show. It’s a tactic used by every media company now.
I ask myself, should a white man play Martin Luther King in a movie? I'd say no. I asked myself, should a black man play Benjamin Franklin? I'd say no. I ask myself, does it matter what color a person is in a fiction movie? I'd say no. I ask myself, should non-fiction be historically accurate. I'd say most likely. I ask myself, should a Japanese man play Geronimo? I'd say no. I mean, I really don't see it as a good concept to have a black man play a KKK member for the most part. I don't see it as a good idea to try to rewrite accurate history. As far as fantasy films, I really don't care.
They're just mad because they never thought they'd get to obtain a little black people magic and they're so mesmerized by it that they cannot contain themselves it's kind of like going to space you never thought it would be obtainable
fresh new characters and story is fine. When you take established characters and change them that is where the problem is. How would the black community feel if a reboot of family matters or living single were switched to white.
They should do series about king David's reign. He had black people in his army they were called cushites. 2 samuel 18.21 Then Joab said to a Cushite, “Go, tell the king what you have seen.” The Cushite bowed down before Joab and ran off.
David and the Israelites were black themselves. In the Bible they were related to Hamites/Egyptians and in history to Ethiopians. Why not call the series “the Cushite” if it focuses more on the Cushite rather than the historical accuracy let alone authenticity of the era? David had Uriah the Hittite and Bathsheba (descended of Gilonites) also a Canaanite among his people Or Ahimelech the Hittite He had a philistine champion Itti the Philistine There are likely other names I don’t know of right now
@@jl-tart7064 the cushites were Africans but we are all one family Jeremiah 13.23 shows they looked different to the Israelites and Genesis 10.8 to 12 shows he is the father of Nimrod the king of Babel. Genesis 10.6 The sons of Ham: Cush, Egypt, Put and Canaan. Canaanites were not cushites
@@brentwood1334 Israelites were African also, try looking up AfroAsiatic, that’s what Israelites were classified as. That’s an African type people (do NOT use ignorance as if that explains away academia stating they were/are). You ironically reached into the Bible that’s translated in English to try to contradict a culture that’s closely African and noted by Christians and Muslims and some Jewish sources as black people Are you trying to convince yourself that seem as though you apparently do not know that the Israelites closely resembled Egyptians in the Bible and looked like Ethiopians in history, pfft
@@jl-tart7064 I just go by what the bible says because it explains itself. The church and universities have their own ideas. Genesis 10 mention the 70 families from Noah's sons..later on Matthew 1 and luke 3 explains Jesus ancestry not his families skin color that is not important or its irrelevant because it's fleshy human thinking, the Europeans classified later on what is African or Asian or European but the bible is pure and does not view one race higher than other psalms 19.7
@@brentwood1334 Clearly you do not, if you did you would not be contradicting this badly, tell me you want to be apart of Joel 3 without telling me you want to be part of Joel 3 Irrelevant is your ignorant nonsense which will have judgment for the sins of your ancestors, that’s in the Bible. Anything else you like to make up whilst you cherry pick scriptures?
I hope when they write the story about Martin Luther Kings life, I hope Tom Hanks plays the role of MLK, then perhaps you might get the point here!!!!!!! Or maybe they write a story about George Washington, played by Denzel Washington........................
I am all for inclusion, but I do think it needs to make sense within the context of the story, otherwise it detracts from the suspension of disbelief. Rings of power is a great example of this. Why are there 2 random black Harfoots, and one black dwarf? The answer is that the producers were trying to be more inclusive, but in the context of the story, it doesn't make much sense. House is the dragon does a much better job by making the valerian family black. This makes much more sense than inserting a random person of color here and there. Similarly, in the cat and the hat cartoon, they made the brother black. Doesn't make much sense for two siblings to be of a different race. Like I said, all for inclusion, just please make it make sense.
@Meow you say diversity matters. So there can be white people in a African themed fantasy world? Or there can be a fictional group of white people with obvious African culture inspirations?
@Meow in the universe of Rings of Power, magic exists, so yes, I am able to suspend my disbelief when they use magic. One back dwarf doesn't make sense though. What's her backstory? Where are the other black dwarves? How about the two back Harfoots? Where did they come from? I dunno, like I said, I'm all for inclusion, I just don't think they went with it in a believable way in rings of power. 🤷 Don't get me wrong though, I watched the whole show, thought it was OK. Honestly not a big fan of any Netflix programming though.
@Meow Just because it's fictional and fantasy, that's not make it likeable or agreeable. Having a black person playing Amaterasu, who is a God from Japanese mythology, would be a very bizarre choice and casting
@Meow I'm not saying inspired by the Japanese gods. I mean the actual Japanese gods with the actual names of the gods. Such as Izunami. God of the Underworld. So are you saying as long as it's made in America and Americans the target audience, did Japanese guys can play by any actor from any race or ethnic? If so. I disagree.
But this isn't about people replacing white characters with black ones, its about creating new characters and having them be black. To those who start racist attacks and threatening needs to be barred from the internet.
@@joecurry382 my friend I respect your opinion, but to threaten others and submit racist attacks is just cruel and uncalled for no matter the circumstances.
@@watermeloniesha how is that you need to have your own super heroes threatening is it because your really the villains I have some Black in my background and understand you feelings but that's all they are Feelings same with White people
@@joecurry382 all I'm saying threatening and being mean to actor who are just doing their jobs, not matter the color is just cruel. It's ok to have opinions and different views but at least be kind in words. No one should have to wake up to toxic mean and awful messages on social media.
Y’all late if your entertaining these racist conversations. Who cares? They mad because they fantasy is the last grip of being “superior”😂. Now make some more good shows for me to watch.👌
The reason why it's wrong to change a character's skin color, even if they are fictional and a fantasy stating, is because characters are recognizable by their appearance. And last time I checked, skin color is a part of appearance. Changing a fictional character's skin color is wrong because it alienates the character and the character no longer looks familiar or recognizable because one of their recognizable features has been changed. Which just happens to be skin complexion. It would be the same thing if a blond character was changed to brunette. It would be a problem because fans do not attribute or associate the character having brown hair. They associate the character having blonde hair. It is similar in regards to skin color. Don't get me wrong. As a white person, characters don't have to look like me in order for me to be interested in them and relate to them. However, if they are changed appearance-wise, then they are no longer recognizable or familiar. And thus, I become alienated. Fans, like myself, appreciate a character's appearance, just as much as the character's story or background. A character appearance, makes them recognizable. Changing their appearance, including skin color, makes them unrecognizable and non-familiar. And all of that. It's just one thing. Black inclusion and black representation is another. Do not conflate the two. As for cosplaying. That is okay in my book. It is not the same thing as playing a character in a TV show.
I wanna see these activists make something new and original, I wanna see them quit adapting stuff white people made since they hate them so much, I wanna see them make something with nothing to go off of, a series built by and made for this generation and their values, I think it'd be rather interesting to see, beats leeching off of the past and we can see what this generation is capable of making
Lol you are sad that you are being ignorant to the fact that many fans are mad at her for not reading the source material and just saying things that have nothing to do with the story.
I wasn’t sure about the Velaryons in HOTD being black because it goes against the books what the people of Valyria look like but it served a purpose to show that Rhaenyra’s kids were indeed bastards.
Get this straight for once. Most of us have no problem what so ever with Black, and other ethnicities, having roles in the sci fi and fantasy we all love... what fk'ing sucks is when they are included in an adaptation that ruins the source lore. Sheesh.
No. Representation doesn’t matter. Creating the best entertainment matters.
Says a white person lol
A "black" Batman illustrates the point perfectly. Why didn't John Ripley create a new black superhero? Why did he have to take an already well established superhero and make him black? It stinks of virtue signalling and forced representation.
Exactly. A black person doesn't have to replace a white one to prove a point. If they really want to prove a point, they should have their own identity, not usurp another's. Replacing a male character with a female one is the same stupid thing. At the rate we're going, next thing you know they'll make a movie with a female Muhammad Ali or a gay male Marilyn Munro or a black Abe Lincoln.
Why didnt they use a real Indian as Tonto instead of Johnny Depp? Why didnt they use a real Egyptian as Black Adam instead of a half black Polynesian ?
It's heartbreaking to watch people in these shows get harassed for whatever creative direction their employers have or haven't taken. Lore aside, nobody's life should be threatened.
I'm fine with black characters in medieval fantasy settings. However, changing a white character to a black character is not creative. It is disagreeable. I do not appreciate conflating the two.
Having a problem with a white character changed to a black character, does not mean having a problem with black inclusion and black representation and more black characters. I do not like it when the two separate things are conflated.
Heartbreaking? Dude, lose a spouse to death, or a child. If this stuff is heartbreaking to you, you're living in a fantasy world. Geesh
Agreed. I certainly hope the cops dig out anyone making racist threats. And that the actual racists are exposed for what they are. However . . .
What of the legitimate criticism? Is that all to be shut down, labelling people as racists for raising their hands and asking questions? There’s no reason to tolerate racism. Yet some subjects are unsuitable for certain actors.
I can’t imagine any legitimate reason to complain about black actors in Star Trek, Star Wars or the Marvel Universe. The line that these fantasies, “must reflect the world we live in today,” is fine. But it’s just daft to have black actors in The Lord Of The Rings. Tolkien created a world based on old Norse, ancient Germanic and ancient Celtic mythology. It doesn’t upset me at all to see people being just wrong about their artistic choices. But, to be told, “Nope! Not listening!” to anyone questioning the logic of altering the basis of Tolkien’s myths at a genetic level is just a cowardly way of shutting down debate and labelling people as, “racists,” for simply disagreeing.
There will always be those who are just racists, and who hate what’s happening for racist reasons. I have no time for racists. But that should not be an excuse to shut down adult discussion over the meaning of art and why interfering with Tolkien’s vision is disrespectful to his legacy. That’s NOT a racist point of view. Merely an artistic criticism. The images are jarring and look misplaced, because they don’t represent the world that Tolkien created over an entire lifetime of hard work, research and creative endeavour.
It is not up for debate, any more than people’s racism is. The whole point of Tolkien’s fantasy was that it does NOT, “reflect the world we live in today.” It reflects a mythical time in a place based on Northern European culture and genuine mythology that shaped their real worlds. Why should the people’s of these cultures be content to have their stories altered and distorted to fit some modern political agenda? It seems like a tone deaf overcorrection by people who lack the imagination to create their own mythology to me.
The fact that the show has an awful, illogical script that disrespects the characters Tolkien created, hijacks their motivations and misrepresents the meanings of Tolkien’s work is not relevant. But it does seem like people who are too quick to put all criticism down to racism have an inbuilt excuse for failure. If we don’t like the show, simply because it’s rubbish, does that make us racists? Come on?
@@joshmoonXY : I am forced to agree. It’s not about racism or sexism when you see a character that you have come to know over years of fandom being altered in gender or race. If we had been given Toni Stark as Iron Woman 10 years ago, everyone would be asking, “why?” In the same way, this show has turned out to be bad, but largely due to terrible writing. Galadriel is represented as being bitchy, permanently angry, hostile and disloyal in this. That’s NOT the Galadriel Tolkien created. In the same way that he didn’t create any black halflings or dwarfs, simply because he’d spent a LIFETIME lovingly creating a mythical world that was based on ancient Norse, Celtic and Germanic myths. If people would be offended by Robert Downey Jr playing Geronimo, Sitting Bull, Malcolm X or Gandhi, are we not allowed to be equally disconcerted by ancient Northern Europeans being misrepresented? Does the history from which Tolkien’s myths were culled not count for anything? It seems an unfair way to want to have it both ways. And it’s deeply devious and bad faith to write off all criticism as being, “racist,” out of the gate.
@@ahartmann1023 : Calm down, son. You’re being obtuse.
We're is the proof? This is bs. I guess someone here will say I'm racist cause I don't agree. The author of the original story has a right to there creations. And there fans have a right to defend it. Racism has no place anywhere, different opinions shouldn't be called racist. Also almost every show they mention here have been horribly written. There just bad shows.
You don't want to believe that these people are being harrassed and so you want to see proof. But then when they show you proof would actually believe it or call it fake? You know full well these people are receiving a lot of racist comments online.
@melodramatic7904 you just said a bunch of what if's? You believe everything your told and I'll seek the truth.
@@melodramatic7904 Most of the people “accused” of getting hate are often put out to dry on purpose by the movie producers in order to cover for their bad writing.
The majority of Lord of the rings criticism has been its story and how inaccurate it is.
Yarp
And the token black characters. Not like "black subcultures or black populations in Tolkien races" . . . just literally they made one black elf, two black hobbits, and one black dwarf.
And all of them are total cringe who have no affect on the actual story.
i agree the movies were good but the series is just that a - series...JRR Tolkien wrote a great set of novels..read most and really oved...
"Inaccurate???" It's fiction, not a documentary.
I wonder who got the idea that fictional characters must be white, like WHY? The Dwarf princess is beautiful in her costume, her skin is stunning, all skin colors are beautiful and my hope is that younger generations have a kinder heart than us. Humanity, do better!
People are not upset with black characters. People are upset about changing white characters to black characters.
@@joshmoonXY I didn't see no one crying when the Genie from Aladdin turned chocolate rather than blue, nor skinny blonde Aquaman for Jason Momoa!!!
@@KissyRitzy are you talking about the Aquaman 2018 film? Well the actor still looks Caucasian to me.
And I don't remember that happening to the genie in Aladdin. Did that happen towards the end of the film?
@@joshmoonXY Jason Momoa isn't white, not only but also just Google what the original character is supposed to look like and come back to this topic. We pick what we want to pick.
@@KissyRitzy I know Jason Momoa is not white. I said he looks white(Caucasian). And I can't find images of Aqua Man other than being a white male with blonde hair.
But how come when talks of inclusion and diversity ends up having black characters and not Latinos, Asians, indians, Inuits, or pacific Islanders? Why is black the default color to represent diversity?
Good question. Very good question.
because over 90 percent black vote democrat and questioning these decisions is perceived to be a white republican thing. So the media act as the protector. Also, nothing garners clicks more than white vs black, so the media needs it.
Have you seen the many movies and TV shows where diversity and inclusion was definitely the theme for most of the ehtnicities you listed? West Story (2021), Quantum Leep (2022-present), Shang Chi (2021), Father of Bride (2022) Fresh Off The Boat (2015-2020), Dr. Ken (2015-2017), NCIS Hawaii (2022-present), Hawaii 5-0 (2010-2020) . Just to name a few. That's all that's on tv and in the movies now. So what are you even talking about? People want more and this is not the 1950s.
@@manny.3248representation and inclusion is great. Taking a character who is familiar and recognized as fair skin and changing the skin color to black, that is not fine. Because it makes the character unrecognizable and unfamiliar by changing their outward appearance. And unless I am mistaken, skin complexion is part of a character's overall appearance.
Race swapping white to black as a solution to inclusion and representation amending America's racist history, is obtuse. Instead of creating new original black characters.
The agenda. Wake up
Personally, all that matters to me is how well the story is told and the performance of the actor. As for the backlash and racist attacks, racist nerds (in this categorical sense) have existed for decades. It's just that now with how much the internet has grown that these asshats have a mouthpiece and get the spew their BS.
So are we supposed to just deal with it?
That's patently untrue. Surely you've heard of pen and paper? There's also this thing called the U.S. Postal Service that does something with these bits of paper people have written on.
Edit: Actually, racism has existed for as long as modern humans have. That's about 80,000 years.
@@thomasdequincey5811 Lol, no, it hasn't. Our modern concept of race is only about 200 or so years old. You mean prejudice? Yeah, that's always existed.
Other think differently. Others appreciate consistency with the character's appearance. Changing the characters appearance, alienates and unfamiliarizes the fans with the characters.
i agree the new lord rings series is a sh#tshow...nothing to do with racism but how the story is being told and produced is key to getting an audience...with all the social media availibility there is clear signs of individuality of racism.
That last statement sums it up perfectly! "...if you want to be upset about it, go sit in a corner and think about your life" (mic drop!)
This was never a problem in 80s, 90s and early 2000s media. Diversity (real diversity) was everywhere. People are rejecting this recent trend of forced corporate diversity quotas and pandering media because it's garbage quality and insulting to the intelligence of audiences. The icing on the cake is that when fans don't watch and/or voice their disapproval, these corporations and the activist stars attack them, making audiences even more resentful.
Go woke, go broke.
Isn't everyone in this video upset that people are upset about it? Should THEY go sit in a corner and cry about it? Or is telling someone to "go sit in a corner and cry about it" just a petulant remark that misses the point entirely?
Changing the race of existing characters is not right any way you spin it .New characters on the other hand are fine obviously but context is important. If it's the year 200 in iceland you won't have an African American present. Same as I would be offended if Martin Luther king was played by a white man .
I agree. If a character is a associated with a certain feature, and if that feature just happens to be skin color, the change in that teacher makes the character unfamiliar and unreganizable
Playing Martin Luther King is not the same even though I believe it has been done in some plays. And that's is because his race and ethnicity is tied to history completely. But tbh I wouldn't want a black person to play George Washington either because to me it's the same thing as well. And you're right it would odd to see a black person in Iceland in the year 200 unless there is some sort of explanation like the fact that the continental plates were once connected and they could be a lost tribe. But people have the right to do whatever they want with any character they have the rights too. So for the people who disguise there racism by gaslighting and acting like their issue is one of substance and reasonable you'll aren't fooling anybody. And yeah there are some good arguments. But I guarantee you can tell who these people voted for or at least who they support politically. Nuff said.
@@ComfortCommunity I don't feel very comfortable or in a community.
@@manny.3248 I'm not American so I'm not sure you know who I'd vote for .
I disagree.
Make new black characters instead. What most ppl don’t like is when you change an existing character’s race. But I don’t really care because it’s fictional.. The funniest thing out of this issue is that black and white aren’t the only colors…
I agree but that may also be a double-edged sword. The Inquisitor from Kenobi was an original character who had an interesting story, but people didn't like her because she was constantly butting into the bigger story which was supposed to be Obi Wan vs Vader.
You can’t have both what’s wrong with having both
I'm a Native American writer. I write for African American readers too. Some of my most hateful critics identify as "black".
I tend to highlight that identifying as white or black- by color codification, causes segregation instead of unification.
Lol native American with white skin yeah right
I identify as you all are sheep baaaa dumb humans.
@@moctezuma1341, I'm Quetzalcoatl aka Kukulkan aka Jesus Christ in tHis second coming- in tHis Native form. If you see "white" skin, it is only because your soul is dark and evil- and I don't mean ebony.
Everything you just wrote literally sounds like a well-crafted lie…. i’ve been following this hateful racist phenomenon for about 15 years and the overwhelming majority of these haters are white please stop the BS
@@moctezuma1341 🤫 it’s 2022. You can be anything now😂
Depending on the individual, the critiques of current TV and movie writing and casting can range from outright racism to honest critiques of poor writing and production. I've heard some folks suggest that TV and filmmakers are bating fans to drum up controversy and increase press around poorly written and/or produced productions. I've also seen comments by fans that are disgusting in their overt racism. I think that we can increase diversity in narrative universes such as Star Wars, GOT, MCU, RE and LoTR in a manner that won't trigger fans. Production companies shouldn't retcon these beloved franchises. They should hire qualified writers who are deeply immersed in the lore who can competently write in diverse characters in a way that fits the lore. It's challenging as writer, but it can be done.
I say call out the racists for being racist AND call out the TV and movie production companies for hiring incompetent writers and producers who ruin excellent franchises like Star Wars. These are two different issues happening simultaneously. Unfortunately, they are inextricably linked because universes like Star Wars are telling less coherent and engaging stories WHILE they hire more diverse casts. Write better stories that fit the lore and write new characters to represent diverse populations in a way that doesn't retcon. All of these universes are massive, allowing for new characters without retconning by competent writers who know the universe they are writing for.
Well said. It's "lore", not "lure" though.
@@RPGreg2600 thanks for the correction. Where I'm from we pronounce it more like "lure," but now that you mention it, I see the error. Folklore vs fishing lure. Oops - lol.
@@SomeSchmidt lol, yeah, by the 3rd lure, I knew it wasn't a typo 😉
The main issue is people don’t understand that if a person of color auditions and they are the best audition then they earned the part. For example the little mermaid was chosen for the best audition. And this is pure capitalism - something the far right should understand …
@@dominickjvlogs Not sure if you're suggesting I'm a part of the far-right. I've voted D my entire voting-age life, I served in the Peace Corps for 3 years, and my professional career in the US has been spent advocating for immigrant rights. I now work in public education, and I'm a proud member of my local Teacher's Union. I also studied literature in college, so I feel confident in my ability to assess the cohesiveness of writing across a narrative universe because I've got two years of practice doing it in undergrad.
Neither of us know if your statement is accurate because we haven't seen the casting tapes or talked to the people who casted your example of Ariel in the live-action Little Mermaid. Personally, my critiques have to do with retconning characters. I also see a pattern where writing is getting really lazy, lacking cohesion, and ruining previously well-written characters and narrative universes. It's unfortunate that shitty writing is happening ever more often as casting choices become more diverse. Humans tend to find patterns and relationships where they don't really exist, and I think some of our white-nationalist neighbors really are frustrated by shitty writing and retconning, and their racism is blending with their frustration over retconning and poor writing and showing up as blatant racist harassment of actors who are just doing what they are paid to do. It's unfortunate, but it's more complex than you seem to be letting on.
Omg it’s just a movie based off of FICTIONAL CHARACTERS! Who gives a 💩, seriously!!??
Lots of people care. It's nothing new.
If y’all hiring people due to skin color and not skill. Y’all crazy
Have that not done that for many years already though? How many white people have gotten a roll because of their skin color even when they sucked at acting? Let’s be real. Fortunately so far the black actors can also act.
Like white people werent getting hired back in the day just cause they were white wheter they were skilled or not....
Nobody should be harassed for playing a character on TV or movies. But logic and lore shouldn't be ruined and distorted just for the sake of diversity. Why not just make an original fantasy show with black characters. That'd be dope. Look at Wakanda in Black Panther it's an awesome world an original fantasy show with imagery like that would be awesome. Corlys in House of Dragon is an awesome character and the actor does great...but it makes no sense to the lore of that world that he's black.
Thank you. Finally someone gets it.
Well then we’d better first correct all the paintings and movies that depict Jesus Christ as a white and blue eyed. Logically he should be brown eyed and skinned according to his ethnicity and birth place. The Bible isn’t considered a fantasy/lore so accuracy of the original should be important, after all logic shouldn’t be ruined or distorted.
@@calidreams5379 first of all, Middle easterns are not exclusively brown or dark skin. Second of all. Jesus Christ is as much of a mythological figure as he is historical. I consider white Jesus to be his mythical counterpart.
Lastly. As I've said. Jesus Christ is a religious and mystical icon. It's not the same as a fictional character such as Peter Parker or Clark Kent. Or Naruto. Or Luffy.
@@calidreams5379 Well they can fix it I don't care lol Jesus is the same as Gandalf in LotR to me just a fantasy character. But do they go into detail in the Bible about Jesus skin color?? That's a genuine question cuz I don't know
@@joshmoonXY 1. First of all they were stated to be black/brown in subjects about “Mediterranean” people
Me citing it is doable despite it having dated term for a black person that will easily trigger UA-cam’s auto delete. What I know is not easily citable are various surmised views that do not substantiate what people who came up with those terms in the first place have been saying.
“Middle East” was coined since the 1850’s post Suez Canal
2. It’d be Yahushua or Joshua, however most people are use to the English version. He was talked about and even mocked by Romans then such as one artwork graffiti of Yahushua supposedly crucified with a donkey head in an attempt to make Messianic believers appear foolish.
3. The two are not that far apart to people who do not believe whether to be another religion or none at all.
Their ok having Black people play slaves & roles in the civil rights era, comedy, gangs, & 304's, but fantasy/ science fiction movies are unrealistic.
There's no reason why diversity can't exist in sci-fi world. However, instead of changing an existing character and start changing their gender or ethnicity, why not just create a new character entirely? Why do we need to do a black Spiderman, black batman, or black Ariel? Why not just create a new ethnicity heros that can take place in the same universe? A good example is the black panthers. Cap America, is a white Character up until End Game before he passed his shield to the Falcon - I'm all for that. But if you try to sell me a black cap America as the first Avenger, that's just wrong from the sources comic.
Exactly. This race swapping business is just obtuse.
and changing a bunch of roles because of race is actually admitting you were being racist in past so, what do you do now hollywood??
Now that we know you could have made more roles of color???
and if you are choosing actors based on color today so you do not look racist, you are actually being racist to make up for being racist???? and repeat
@@joshmoonXY I'm Asian. If they race swap Ariel to Asian, I be like WTF too. We don't need representation in everything! Just enjoy the F ing mivie.
Facts 👏 The reason they do this is for MONEY, they don’t care about real change
Biggest thing that sucks today is when they make caricatures rather then characters, look at miles morales spider man, great original character, now look at snowflake and safespace, and just imagine now if instead of adapting miles morales you just made peter parker black, it'd immediately get backlash
It really wasn't that diversity was the issue, is how TERRIBLE the characters were written.
House of Dragon Vs Rings of Power.
Perfect example. House Valaryion is EPIC and refreshing. Everyone from Amazon's fan fiction is a DISASTER.
When production companies actually write good characters most of society doesn't care about skin colour, but when it is literally unwatchable is when criticism is merited.
Also in Kenobi she genuinely was HORRIBLE. Everything about that mini series is terrible and it pains me that it was even made.
Ewen McGregor and young Leia were good, I thought.
@@RPGreg2600 they were a saving grace, but it was still a 1/10 performance from everything else.
@@hirotashi fair enough!
There were black actors in the original Star Wars movies! Get over it!
Okay but what about Asians? What about Hispanics and Latinos??
Diversity for the sake of Diversity is why the ratings are so low. Time to go back to talent.
I agree with more representation in fantasy, it doesn't make sense to have it any other way. But they don't even give us an idea of why people are "being racist" or "backlashing," maybe you could cover the actual controversy instead of virtue signaling over and over again?
I think the NBA should require at least 2 white guys on every team!!!!!!!! HOW ABOUT THAT???? more whites being represented in Basketball!!!
funny how it is OK to be racist when you are the minority
I’m Latino and this is what I think. Where’s the Latinos, where the Indians, where’s the Asians, where’s the Japanese, where’s the other races??? Black people have a lot of roles in Hollywood and we don’t. But you don’t see us crying about it
It’s only an issue when they replace white characters with blacks. They need to develop new characters for non whites. Imagine Ryan gosling playing the black panther. Al sharpton would be on every channel.
I agree. I look forward to seeing a white actor play the Black Panther 😃
Pay attention to the message, so you'll inner stand that certain representation don't match.
Nah I'm more excited for latino black panther, representation matters
It's not that it's racist. Ok maybe a little. However it just looks forced like ,"here is black people deal with it." What is the context? "There is none but here deal with it. Or you are racist".
YOU make it about race, not the fans
Go woke go broke.
Boycott to your politics
I get it, but don't teach your kids to put their identities in media figures and actors.
This is absolutely ridiculous, People don't understand why cuz they're not real fans of the work. Fans are upset because you're ruining the original work or changing it to your modern tones. If there was a original black story like wakada or fresh prince , bad boys , People aren't as upset because they're original takes. I think it's ridiculous messing with original literature just because you want to feel included. I'm Asian You don't see me complaining cuz I'm not in every damn movie. Next time you do fresh Prince of Bel-Air number two or three or bad boys with a Asian cast I would still be annoyed. If you want to be included so bad, make new stories. Stop messing with old traditional tales.
omg...please think about what you said. jesus. House of the Dragon, Rings of Power, Obi-Wan are all adaptations of the original story....NEW STORIES. They're not original work or canon as you fanboys call it... these are not even fans that complain...they're saying people that have a different skin tone shouldn't be playing these roles because it doesn't fit their ideals. So yes you are a racist because you are justifying that these black actors are ruining the original work which these aren't even original work! They are adaptations!!
@@SuperDuckyNarwhal they arnt black in the original story, idk how you can't comprehend. House of dragon was written by Martin, Ring of powers 2nd age is written Tolkien. These already have great depictions takes. Especially the middle earth story has been passed down for generations, even my dad and grandfather read those books. There's a reason these stories passed the test of time. Rings of power writers pretty much just shat all over his story. In the interview with Peter Jackson, he tried create a world as best he can to Tolkien's work, with out putting his views into it. That's how ppl should work with stories based on books. There's even a new story coming out with an Asian elf as one of the main characters. I'm not happy to see that at all. They don't needed to be added if it's not in the original piece. Ring of Power on the other hand did the race swap pretty well. I honestly thought it was find turning the valyrians into black people. It didn't ruin the story as much. But I still rather have a faithful adaption. Obi-wan story sets up obi-wans character to be terrible and doesn't justify the character that was originally created by Lucas films. There hasn't been one good story from the Disney acquisition, asides from Rouge one.
@@SuperDuckyNarwhal also as mentioned. You don't need to have minorities replacing every original character that wasn't black or w.e to begin with. If a black person replaced the next Mulan , I would be pissed. If an Asian replaced the next bad boys movie I would be pissed. Some race swapping isn't necessary. Make some damn original movies with black and mix characters. Don't mess with original lore.
That's the thing though, activists and actual creative people don't mix, it's like cowboy bebop, the anime was made by creative people, the netflix adaptation was made by activists who didn't even watch the anime, these people can't make anything new so they just leech off the past artists, why? Because they know they can't write a hit series that's why
@@maxgong009 Nobody cares if your grandfather read anything. If you know the book so much then please enlighten everyone the page and chapter where it says what color the skin is. And even if it does....IT DOESN'T MATTER. IT'S A FAKE STORY. It's fantasy. If they want to remake it with all black actors, that's fine too. Are you going to spend your time watching the movie and then complain about online spouting it's a travesty? THEN DON'T WATCH IT. No, instead you and your racist fanboys have a hate-filled circle jerk online. Chill the F(*( out.
When writing a story it's best to keep to your author's intended lore, story and included characters. When things are shoehorned in for political or racially charged reasons that should be kept to their own story which in my opinion would be watched by those that would enjoy that scenario knowing what they're getting themselves into. Taking already established stories and telling the fan base to watch it only takes the lore and throws it in a trash can and shows how much you care for the original story and the fans that enjoyed it, why not just make your own story instead of playing off the fans?
Take this from someone who does writing for stories that has to litterally do with almost every race under the sun while the main character is a giant walking turtle. Do you think people would be upset the main character is a giant badass turtle just cause it doesn't look like them or would it be a misrepresentation of turtles? Or are we only allowed to write about our own race? When you start making authors question every creative decision they make you're left with bland, dull and obviously tailored stories with no real heart.
Amazing words never used before when white people were playing all different races, we could have used these words long long time ago. Heck we could have even used these words when they used a white actor to play a real black hero on September 11. Its time to share the stage
Well they should’ve kept that same energy while filming those movies about Egyptians 🤷🏿♂️ or the Bible…or Rambo (maroons)..or the Lone Ranger…🤷🏿♂️
“Go sit in a corner and think about your life”
That was amazing 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Equity, equality, diversity has destroyed the greatest of all nations
Representation is just unqualified quotas at best and racist/prejudice tribalism at worst.
What a load of absolute BS. Talk about gas lighting. How about using your creativity and create your own IP ANC stories?
Sometimes we may not like something and it’s ok. Representation matters. People don’t got to be rude, threatening, and cruel. That’s all. One day, our children’s children’s children will all be of mixed race, culture, etc. And they’ll become stars that play all types of roles. It’s time to welcome representation and change. Hate only begets hate. Peace.
Having a problem with white characters changed to black is not the same as having a problem with black inclusion and black representation.
Just because there are white people who have a problem with the former, does not mean they have a problem with the ladder. Of course, there are indeed white people who have a problem with the ladder. Unfortunately.
@@joshmoonXY
When a person of color plays a role that is deemed a “white” person, it’s wrong, it’s not part of history. Then when a white actor takes a minority role, people argue, best actor with skill acquires the role. How can the actor of color learn and showcase its skill if he/she can’t play a “white” role or a role that seems geared towards his/her own race? What room is there?
To build a more equal, fairer playing ground, allow for more representation, yes, roles deemed “white” will have to be changed. However, the opposite cannot be. There’s already not enough minority representation or roles, that is why changes were made. To continue allowing whites to play people of color is going backwards.
Already getting long so I won’t even start on this “white” fantasy role created from made up history and such. The only time I think (loosely) it matters is biographical or memoirs turned movies. Even then, it’s acting. Ariel can be anything. One can have a full black cast in these GOT shows and honestly, I don’t see an issue. It’s fiction, ffs. People really need to stop with the craziness.
@@shouzfang7154 well for starters, a characters appearance makes them recognizable and familiarized. And last time I checked, skin color is a part of a character's appearance
You change a character's skin color, it makes the character look unrecognizable. And unfamiliar.
It's the same thing if you change a character's hair color. If audience associate and are familiar with a character having blonde hair, and the character hair color is changed to brunette, it would cause the audience like myself to feel alienated and unfamiliar with the character.
Also whitewashing is not okay either. It wasn't okay during the live adaptation of Avatar The last Airbender, and it's not okay now.
Just because the characters are fictional does not justify fans should not get upset over a change of skin color. Because characters are recognized by their appearance. And appearance includes skin color. Change the skin color and you changed the overall appearance of the character. And the character becomes unfamiliar and un recognizable and alienated.
As I've said. Black inclusion can be done without changing. White characters to black characters.
Just because why people have actively only creative white characters due to races. Reasons, does not justify changing white characters who are recognized and established as white to black.
As I've said. Black inclusion is fine. Race swapping white to black is not. And neither is whitewashing.
Some people like to pretend they are more or morally superior by saying they don't care about skin color. However, fans always have appreciated a character's appearance. And appearance includes skin color and hair color.
There's no justification and switching white characters to black characters in the name black inclusion and black reputation.
@@shouzfang7154 so yes. White people who have tried to justify whitewashing in the past are hypocrites. However. The opposite is also unacceptable for establish white characters even if they are fictional. It's unacceptable because it changes to the characters overall appearance and alienates fans such as myself
Don't get me wrong. A character does not have to look like me or share my skin color in order for me to like them. I am saying changing a character skin color. It's no different than changing their hair color. It's a change that makes the character unfamiliar and unrecognizable because they are changing physical traits, fans like myself have associated with the character for a long time. Be it skin color. Hair color. Hair length. Eye color. Or even bloody earrings.
@@shouzfang7154 It's only acceptable when it comes to voice acting, fictional characters in fictional settings.
For example. The protagonist of the video game series God of War is literally described as having skin as pale as a ghost. Yet he is voiced by a black person that is acceptable to me because voice acting is different than actual role playing.
Dont people have anything better to do?
I stand with Halle Bailey playing Ariel.
I stand with Kelly Marie Tran.
I stand with Meghan Markle.
I stand with Moses Ingram.
I stand with Barack Obama
I stand with George Floyd.
I stand with Kamala Harris.
I stand with every celebrity of color.
It is truly despicable that this kind of bigotry and ignorance is still so prevalent in this day and age. These are fantasy characters, it's not like having a black actor portray Abraham Lincoln. Why can't Ariel be a black girl or the dwarf princess be a woman if color? It is about damn time that children can see themselves represented in a positive way on screen!
Changing a character's appearance and skin color makes them unfamiliar and unreganizable. That's why it's wrong.
Inclusion can be done without race swapping.
@@joshmoonXY where does it state that Ariel or Cinderella are white? Just because they have been portrayed as white until know does not mean that they cannot be black in future versions of the story. How does allowing children of other races see themselves portrayed as the princess, or prince for that matter make it wrong?
@@helenannviccora7743 why do black children need to see themselves in a character or princess that has already been white. Why can't they see themselves in new characters introduced?
Why is the solution for black inclusion, black representation, black opportunity being switching white characters to black characters. Instead of, creating new black characters? Why is the latter never an option?
I find it obtuse that the solution for black representation and black inclusion is changing white characters to black. Instead of creating or writing new original black characters.
@@helenannviccora7743 and by the way. Heimdall is mentioned to be white in the lore. Yet he is still changed anyway.
So what's the point of saying "where is the source that says Cinderella and Ariel are white" when white characters are going to get changed anyway to black regardless, if it's source, describe some as a specific skin complexion?
If you're going to do it anyway. There is no point in bringing it up the source material.
@@helenannviccora7743 to rephrase. There is no point in bring up the source material if skin color is changed anyway, even if the source material describes a character as having a specific skin color. For example, Heimdall.
Bro. How would you feel if black panther became a white hero….
Exactly it’s starting to be taken too far at this point, the new Velma show is a prime example.
That Character represents a culture, a nationality, and a race. If the character's significance isn't tied to race or nationality then him being whatever nationality is irrelevant. Pocahontas for example is tied to her culture and heritage. Only a native should play her. The Terminator in the last movie was played by Gabriel Luna, of Latin decent. It could be race or nationality because the terminator is not tied to any culture or race. So wanting something to be a certain race just for the sake of being that race because it always has been is erroneous and could be subconscious racism even if one doesn't think it is. Have to get away from that type of thinking and bring the world together. Probably would help if they created all new ORIGINAL stories and characters that can fit into any culture. Then people couldn't complain.
@@kbeats2001 You're right in regards to Pocahontas and the Black panther
However characters are recognizable by their appearance. And last time I checked, skin color is a part of appearance.
Changing a fictional character's skin color is wrong because it alienates the character and the character no longer looks familiar or recognizable because one of their recognizable features has been changed. Which just happens to be skin complexion.
It would be the same thing if a blond character was changed to brunette. It would be a problem because fans do not attribute or associate the character having brown hair. They associate the character having blonde hair. It is similar in regards to skin color.
Don't get me wrong. As a white person, characters don't have to look like me in order for me to be interested in them and relate to them. However, if they are changed appearance-wise, then they are no longer recognizable or familiar. And thus, I become alienated.
Fans, like myself, appreciate a character's appearance, just as much as the character's story or background. A character appearance, makes them recognizable. Changing their appearance, including skin color, makes them unrecognizable and non-familiar.
And all of that. It's just one thing.
Black inclusion and black representation is another.
Do not conflate the two.
@@kbeats2001 well theirs white south africans, albino africans, and muslim arabs in the north, like people say its fictional it's all fictional, so why not change it?
Just fight fire with fire make a movie about a white Martin Luther king
If it involves multiple universes it can work
IS NOT RACISM!
The same outrage will suffer if anyone makes Black Panther played by a White Actor.
The level of ignorance to tell a fan that his/her character is now different. Can anyone understand what is the definition of a fan.
The Lord of The Rings: The Rings of Power is NOT based on J.R.R. Tolkien's work. The fan that reads the books and goes in depth on every character, the history of the Elves, Men, Dwarves, Hobbits, Ents, Orcs and Trolls, every side story, every detail, etc. knows better than any network that careless produces a TV show or film.
And the level of ignorance to claim Cosplaying is the same thing as Casting an actor.
EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT THERE IS NOT GENDER, RACE, BODY TYPE, ETC. IN COSPLAY. DUH!!!
Respect the fan or loose money!. No one can make any fan to watch careless production.
I don't think a white black panther is a good example. I think a better example is changing a character's hair color. Fans would still notice and complain about it.
Dude you're tripping. You win the award for poorest argument 🤣
That is what I say, what happens when the role of Martin Luther King gets played by Tom Hanks, or better yet George Washington being played by Denzel Washington?
@@tomdaniels3392 you argument is null... You're bringing up actual people... Where as were talking about fictional characters..
@@honestreviewer4864 anne boleyn was a white historical figure that was made black, shut up with your nonsense excuses
Anne Boleyn a real Historical person. Should not be played by a Black female actor. Fictional characters go for it.
Studios need to stop overly promoting the diversity. Just make a good show or movie.
Everyone should have a place in the fantasy world.
Getting excited about characters and the worlds they inhabit has always been a great joy for me; it’s a joy everyone should have. As for our black dwarf in Power of the Ring, she’s the highlight for this fan!
Lmao
You got some pronouns in ur bio don't you
Wakanda, look what y'all done started! After Lt. Uhura in Star Trek....you know full well blacks and sci-fi were not supposed to be synonymous in tv and films. If it's not a story about rags to riches, drug addiction, homicides and poverty, it's going to be a tall order trying to convince the "tv/film industry" that we belong in any other genres. Black Panther, Blade...The Cosby Show,
Star Trek etc. If I was wrong about anything I just wrote, this whole video wouldn't be an issue of contention in the first place.
narrow-minded people consider themselves a fan of fantasy world. that is very oxymoron
Cannot wait for a white or an asian king or queen as the next black panther....just like a black mermaid...🙄
If it isnt a lesbian or gay character...the wokewood slot in a black actor to fulfil the woke check box. 🙄
Sophia is great. But she was represented as an original character that happen to be black.
The little mermaid was white with red hair.....and hold and behold.....to gain woke points.....they slot in a black mermaid.
Falcon was fine with Mackey.....because he was the original actor to play that character.
Watch the shitstorm if the Falcon being replaced with a white actor next.
For years white actors have been playing roles that was made for minorities. Minorities sat back watched it and enjoyed it, we watched Johnny Depp play Tonto an Indian. But now when the situation changes and the roles is reversed you want to talk about staying true to the Character??
I will concede only one thing, real life characters in movies ( NOT PLAYS ) should be kept to its original.
I'm black and I think we need to make our own superheroes. Instead of piggybacking off their b*******.
m.ua-cam.com/video/PStZ3nkvwoc/v-deo.html
While new ones would be great too, there are still people who love the originals and it’s nice that the originals can be more relatable to us. Little Mermaid was my favorite as a young girl. I’m 34 now. I’m thrilled that the new little mermaid looks more like me. I wouldn’t have wanted them to just make some other mythical creature specifically to have someone who looks like me play them. We need both.
@@BoyMama87 I’m just worried that they change arbitrary things to pander to certain groups, so they have an excuse to write terrible media.
I mean if the character is described a certain detailed way then yeah stick with the source material, and if it’s open to interpretation then by all means
We should stick with Flat Earth too I guess!
@@herlandercarvalho huh?
@@Allaiya. You know many millennia ago, the Earth was described as flat! So it makes sense that if we cannot accept change in fiction, we should not accept it in reality either!
HINT: It's called sarcasm!
@Meow adaptation is not the same thing as a reboot, or remake.
Adaptation is a transition of media. Not changing the characters or the story. Adaptation is from paper to theater. Or the opposite.
Besides. Look at what happened to the adaptation of the live action movie of Avatar The last Airbender. The director had the right to creative liberties and look happened there.
Just because it is, it's an adaptation. Does not mean the directors should get to change what the characters look like. It did not work in Avatar The last Airbender, and it does not work now.
@Meow true you’re never given a description of the Hobbits other than that they’re small, have big feet with hair on them, but I’m referring to shows like House of the Dragon where House Velaryon is depicted as black but in the books is a tradition Valyrian family
Star Trek my ass…LB…you will always be my Reading Rainbow!!! Big part of my childhood!!!
I LOVE every show they mentioned, didnt even cross my mind about that they are black. BLEW MY MIND people are actually bothered by it. People need to get over there selfs.
I look forward to seeing a white actor play the Black Panther
As a fan of Lord of the Rings and Scifi/Fantasy in general WTF. I love comics and SF/F because it's always been the first place for representation. As a Latina diving into the nerd world made so much sense.
Anyway, the issues with Rings of Power are not the people of color. They need to work on the story telling (Tolkien is rolling in his grave because of the storytelling not the race of characters). Also Sophia is amazing in the show!!!
Have you read the LOTR? The only black people in it come from the East and fight on Sauron's side. That's because Middle-Earth is clearly a representation of medieval Europe with some Gods and Magic thrown in. Putting black people in it and making everyone "play nice" destroys the truth and reality of that world. Why doesn't someone write their own new fantasy novel and people entirely with black people? I can guarantee you that apart from a few people pointing out the hypocrisy not a single white person would care.
As a Cuban American I agree with you but unfortunately the media only knows how to use 1 yugioh card and it’s called instant racism.
Ring of power completely unwatchable
I bet everyone would feel differently if black panther was replaced with someone not black and no this comment is NOT racist is what is racist is replacing a character who was of a different skin color just to fit an fascist agenda
Whew!...It's a good thing you assured anyone reading your comment that you're not being racist. Because if you hadn't. ..I'd assume you were.
It’s fantasy representation doesn’t matter seriously there are dragons and elves and trolls what does the color of an actors skin matter.
Amazon bought an established IP for it's lore and its fan base so backlash should be expected and well deserved, it would be like making Black Panther and replacing main characters and the Wakandans with white people the outrage would be legendary and black actors would be on every news show crying how "their" culture is being whitewashed, in this case it is white culture being "blackwashed" and neither is acceptable.
It matters when they were already white and switched to a different color. That's the problem. Not black representation in fantasy and sci-fi. This whole segment, was one big straw man.
@@joshmoonXY nope it doesn't matter because it's fantasy and they don't exist. They could be any color.
@@The07One no I disagree. I like the characters looking like the characters as I know them as. It would be the same thing if a blond character was changed to brunette hair character. It may be fiction and fantasy, but it is disagreeable to change a character's skin color for no reason.
Having Luffy or Naruto or Deku as blac makes no sense. If you know those characters.
@Allison Orwell I don't know what that means.
There's SO much diversity in Africa and the BLOCKBUSTER movies that come from there should be a testament to the wyt people of Hollywood of how it's done. We NEED to replace EVERY traditional wyt character NOW !
It's not as simple as they make it out to be. If a show like Star Trek establishes a multi-racial universe with gender and racial equality from the start, then no one cares about the races or genders of the actors. It all blends together seamlessly.
But when a universe or franchise has heroes or creatures already established as looking a certain way, and then they're suddenly changed due to societal pressure (as opposed to for some logical reason within that universe), then fans get annoyed. Fantasy and sci-fi are used to escape from reality and the problems with modern society, and these radical changes pull them out of the show and back into reality.
There should absolutely be diversity on screen, but it doesn't need to be shoehorned in where it doesn't make sense. Imagine if there were a handful of random Caucasians living in Wakanda. That would be really dumb and wouldn't make sense. The same holds true for random black actors showing up amongst the elves. Yes, it's all make-believe, but there should be an internal logic to things.
Exactly!
Why does seeing Black or poc characters pull them out of a story? Why is that a challenge to what they can dispense in terms of belief?
It sounds like they want over-representation. Equality would be black actors in 13% of movies.
Everyone loves Game of Thrones. It’s crap like She Hulk and Rings of Power which is completely garbage
I love the open diversity in the fantasy properties. The racism by racist individuals is disgusting.
We live in a new world where people and ignorance Existed which makes it look really bad In society
Black American people shouldn't play a fictional character just to get some recognition
Yeah! Go sit in a corner and think about your life!
I don't see the issue with inclusion i just think it's weird when they change a well established character for the act of inclusion but i also understand why they do it. Star was and ring of fire characters are new. Also marvel already black characters granted not many. I see no issue with black mermaids it's just odd when generations of kids grew up on one things and it changes for them. I would hate if my favorite character changed but i wonder if i would feel the same if that character represented me ethnically. Bc there aren't many latin characters either. It's interesting namor is of Aztec/mayan origins now but im not doesn't really affect me either way because I was never into that character.
force feeding you racism right now, that is what hollywood is doing. Making up for all of hollywood's racism of the past by being more racist today!!!!!
@CreativePerson
Quote: "Any book or movie lesson on equality and tolerance can be told just as well with fantasy characters of other species *regardless of colors*."
Then you agree, the color of the characters is not an issue, so it's fine to change... time to move on. Unless... you are contradicting yourself, and believe that it will make a difference to you, if the characters are not white. So the question becomes:
"Does it make any difference to you if they are not white?"
@CreativePerson there is a sense of connection when you see yourself in a character and if they happen to look like you it's build a sense of pride as if you could somehow be them. but really your right there's no need for it. I might not have a connection to transformers but I'd like to be one of have one lol
People of color have portrayed characters in said genres for decades now, from Lando Calrissian to Geordie LaForge, from Spawn to Blade and so on. I wouldn`t want it any other way.
person of color or colored people, is the latter racist now?
@@ajmarr5671 I actually have no idea tbh, but it might be better to ask one of them if they do see it that way.
I have no option but to be neutral because being Puertorican I understand that there will never be fair representation. If a person speaks Spanish, they are Mexican, if it is a black person, you are only good as a black American from the "hood" and if you're white, well...KKK, white trash or black wanna be. It is sad to see that people close their eyes to te world and have to relay on a movie to see a piece of who they might be. I just remember that this are make believe and keep on going.
🤔💭.. Who is controlling the narrative? Who 'benefits' and profit($$) from this type of rhetoric or business strategy.
Some shows are good. Some are bad.
I think it's less to do with race and more to do with wokeism.
what??!!!!! really Nichele Nichols from 1960's Star Trek????!!!! most of these people werent even born then???!!!! people are insane!!!!!
I think it depends on the material. If it’s historical, I think that’s a bit more questionable. If it’s fantasy, well as long as it doesn’t directly negate the lore/story, I think it’s fine. Representation is important. But what matters most is the story & making sure each character is well written & has substance.
Personally, I really like the Velyarons in HOTD. Corlys looks so badass in his armor & his character is interesting & distinct.
The RoP I haven’t watched because I heard it severely changed the lore in not a good way & wasn’t that great.
Now someone pointed out to me that there seems to be some trend of replacing the red haired characters with black actors. So I guess the gingers might be a little bitter about it. Lol
I think it needs to equal. if youre gonna make hermione blk in harry potter (which is fine whatever), then you cant get mad if they made a traditionally blk hero ...white. like really who cares in this day and age, i just dont watch any movie that caters to woke culture any way.
I'm with you on changing the race of historical figures. But fictional characters? For me that's perfectly fine. It's all about the writing.
And by writing I mean the absence of preaching. I think Idris Elba would make a fantastic James Bond. And if they could write a script that didn't focus on racial Injustice and just stick to formulaic James Bond plot I'd be thrilled.
@@D1it4FN Idris Elba would be great as Bond but someone said he had pulled out of the running.
@@Allaiya. he's been quoted as saying he's not interested in the role. And according quotes attributed to the producers, it's like a 10-year commitment. I read that as a contractual obligation to be involved in a number of movies.
That might be the root of the problem.
Black people are already represented hugely in all forms of media. Upwards of 40% in TV and Movie appearances. Despite being only half that proportion.
Stop whining about representation when you ALREADY HAVE IT.
The new star wars, and rings of power just suck and my opinion on that has nothing to do with the color change in the characters. The actors would have been better paired in a rom-com rather than sci-fi and the characters are lame attempts at rewriting stories that were already good. Now when it comes to House of the Dragon I haven't heard a single complaint about there being melanated valerians, honestly it's added a whole new aspect that makes it totally better than it was in the books and everybody seems to love it. But ABC probably wouldn't have Aires the story if it had went that way.
Amazon playing serious damage control after the Neilson ratings reports dropped yesterday
They label anyone with critisism as a racist.
I am 60 years old and still cannot understand wat it's about with all the hurt in this world the racist thing is just stupid
All these Movies and TV Series I love them. I consume them wholeheartedly! Keep them coming Netflix, Amazon Prime, AMC, Parmount et al. 💙💙
Look you can represent someone’s race in a movie but when you’ve hanged characters who’ve been one way for 50 years just to make sure there’s one color of each person is ridiculous. Write new stories, ex. Black Adam. As a white man thatsbshits dope. But don’t expect me to feel sorry for actors who make millions because they’re feelings are hurt. Do something original and I bet all this hate goes away. Oh and some of these actors stir up fake racial controversy to sell their show. It’s a tactic used by every media company now.
M3ghan was written by a bw, and guess what? no oppressed blks, poor blks, Mary sues, joshes, no slavery references...a story that's making millions.
I ask myself, should a white man play Martin Luther King in a movie? I'd say no. I asked myself, should a black man play Benjamin Franklin? I'd say no. I ask myself, does it matter what color a person is in a fiction movie? I'd say no. I ask myself, should non-fiction be historically accurate. I'd say most likely. I ask myself, should a Japanese man play Geronimo? I'd say no.
I mean, I really don't see it as a good concept to have a black man play a KKK member for the most part.
I don't see it as a good idea to try to rewrite accurate history. As far as fantasy films, I really don't care.
They're just mad because they never thought they'd get to obtain a little black people magic and they're so mesmerized by it that they cannot contain themselves it's kind of like going to space you never thought it would be obtainable
No indigenous actors.
fresh new characters and story is fine. When you take established characters and change them that is where the problem is.
How would the black community feel if a reboot of family matters or living single were switched to white.
They should do series about king David's reign. He had black people in his army they were called cushites. 2 samuel 18.21 Then Joab said to a Cushite, “Go, tell the king what you have seen.” The Cushite bowed down before Joab and ran off.
David and the Israelites were black themselves. In the Bible they were related to Hamites/Egyptians and in history to Ethiopians.
Why not call the series “the Cushite” if it focuses more on the Cushite rather than the historical accuracy let alone authenticity of the era?
David had Uriah the Hittite and Bathsheba (descended of Gilonites) also a Canaanite among his people
Or Ahimelech the Hittite
He had a philistine champion Itti the Philistine
There are likely other names I don’t know of right now
@@jl-tart7064 the cushites were Africans but we are all one family Jeremiah 13.23 shows they looked different to the Israelites and Genesis 10.8 to 12 shows he is the father of Nimrod the king of Babel. Genesis 10.6 The sons of Ham: Cush, Egypt, Put and Canaan. Canaanites were not cushites
@@brentwood1334 Israelites were African also, try looking up AfroAsiatic, that’s what Israelites were classified as. That’s an African type people (do NOT use ignorance as if that explains away academia stating they were/are).
You ironically reached into the Bible that’s translated in English to try to contradict a culture that’s closely African and noted by Christians and Muslims and some Jewish sources as black people
Are you trying to convince yourself that seem as though you apparently do not know that the Israelites closely resembled Egyptians in the Bible and looked like Ethiopians in history, pfft
@@jl-tart7064 I just go by what the bible says because it explains itself. The church and universities have their own ideas. Genesis 10 mention the 70 families from Noah's sons..later on Matthew 1 and luke 3 explains Jesus ancestry not his families skin color that is not important or its irrelevant because it's fleshy human thinking, the Europeans classified later on what is African or Asian or European but the bible is pure and does not view one race higher than other psalms 19.7
@@brentwood1334 Clearly you do not, if you did you would not be contradicting this badly, tell me you want to be apart of Joel 3 without telling me you want to be part of Joel 3
Irrelevant is your ignorant nonsense which will have judgment for the sins of your ancestors, that’s in the Bible. Anything else you like to make up whilst you cherry pick scriptures?
I hope when they write the story about Martin Luther Kings life, I hope Tom Hanks plays the role of MLK, then perhaps you might get the point here!!!!!!!
Or maybe they write a story about George Washington, played by Denzel Washington........................
lol You missed the point they were talking about fantasy 🤣ROFL
We need more Ainu, Hmong, and other ethnic Asian minorities in films; otherwise, Hollywood is racist.
European Americans been playing Egyptians for years. So whats the problem now? 🤣🤣
Fine, Wakanda is that way. 👉🏻
@@HopkinsIsNotAVictim LMBAO!! You mad Pinky? You turned red yet?
I am all for inclusion, but I do think it needs to make sense within the context of the story, otherwise it detracts from the suspension of disbelief. Rings of power is a great example of this. Why are there 2 random black Harfoots, and one black dwarf? The answer is that the producers were trying to be more inclusive, but in the context of the story, it doesn't make much sense. House is the dragon does a much better job by making the valerian family black. This makes much more sense than inserting a random person of color here and there.
Similarly, in the cat and the hat cartoon, they made the brother black. Doesn't make much sense for two siblings to be of a different race.
Like I said, all for inclusion, just please make it make sense.
@Meow except how often than not are they actually adopted?
@Meow you say diversity matters. So there can be white people in a African themed fantasy world? Or there can be a fictional group of white people with obvious African culture inspirations?
@Meow in the universe of Rings of Power, magic exists, so yes, I am able to suspend my disbelief when they use magic. One back dwarf doesn't make sense though. What's her backstory? Where are the other black dwarves? How about the two back Harfoots? Where did they come from?
I dunno, like I said, I'm all for inclusion, I just don't think they went with it in a believable way in rings of power. 🤷
Don't get me wrong though, I watched the whole show, thought it was OK. Honestly not a big fan of any Netflix programming though.
@Meow Just because it's fictional and fantasy, that's not make it likeable or agreeable.
Having a black person playing Amaterasu, who is a God from Japanese mythology, would be a very bizarre choice and casting
@Meow I'm not saying inspired by the Japanese gods. I mean the actual Japanese gods with the actual names of the gods. Such as Izunami. God of the Underworld.
So are you saying as long as it's made in America and Americans the target audience, did Japanese guys can play by any actor from any race or ethnic? If so. I disagree.
That woman wearing a Mineta costume is cultured. Big W!
But this isn't about people replacing white characters with black ones, its about creating new characters and having them be black.
To those who start racist attacks and threatening needs to be barred from the internet.
Then make your own characters don't make believe your Captain America or Spider man or Superman make your own super heroes
@@joecurry382 my friend I respect your opinion, but to threaten others and submit racist attacks is just cruel and uncalled for no matter the circumstances.
@@watermeloniesha how is that you need to have your own super heroes threatening is it because your really the villains I have some Black in my background and understand you feelings but that's all they are Feelings same with White people
@@watermeloniesha by the way Spiderman was mixed in real life
@@joecurry382 all I'm saying threatening and being mean to actor who are just doing their jobs, not matter the color is just cruel. It's ok to have opinions and different views but at least be kind in words. No one should have to wake up to toxic mean and awful messages on social media.
Y’all late if your entertaining these racist conversations. Who cares? They mad because they fantasy is the last grip of being “superior”😂. Now make some more good shows for me to watch.👌
The reason why it's wrong to change a character's skin color, even if they are fictional and a fantasy stating, is because characters are recognizable by their appearance. And last time I checked, skin color is a part of appearance.
Changing a fictional character's skin color is wrong because it alienates the character and the character no longer looks familiar or recognizable because one of their recognizable features has been changed. Which just happens to be skin complexion.
It would be the same thing if a blond character was changed to brunette. It would be a problem because fans do not attribute or associate the character having brown hair. They associate the character having blonde hair. It is similar in regards to skin color.
Don't get me wrong. As a white person, characters don't have to look like me in order for me to be interested in them and relate to them. However, if they are changed appearance-wise, then they are no longer recognizable or familiar. And thus, I become alienated.
Fans, like myself, appreciate a character's appearance, just as much as the character's story or background. A character appearance, makes them recognizable. Changing their appearance, including skin color, makes them unrecognizable and non-familiar.
And all of that. It's just one thing.
Black inclusion and black representation is another.
Do not conflate the two.
As for cosplaying. That is okay in my book. It is not the same thing as playing a character in a TV show.
You’re trying to justify your racism.
@@Loveandkindness33 You're conflating. You actually proved my point.
@@Loveandkindness33 you actually proved my point. You have conflated two different things.
Maaaan, if you don’t shut up 🤫
I get it... like... when the Earth used to be flat, and now round... it alienated me from real life too! How dare they!
I wanna see these activists make something new and original, I wanna see them quit adapting stuff white people made since they hate them so much, I wanna see them make something with nothing to go off of, a series built by and made for this generation and their values, I think it'd be rather interesting to see, beats leeching off of the past and we can see what this generation is capable of making
Sci-fi is for everyone who cares about skin color just make good sci-fi that's all I want
Lol you are sad that you are being ignorant to the fact that many fans are mad at her for not reading the source material and just saying things that have nothing to do with the story.
I wasn’t sure about the Velaryons in HOTD being black because it goes against the books what the people of Valyria look like but it served a purpose to show that Rhaenyra’s kids were indeed bastards.
Get this straight for once. Most of us have no problem what so ever with Black, and other ethnicities, having roles in the sci fi and fantasy we all love... what fk'ing sucks is when they are included in an adaptation that ruins the source lore. Sheesh.
Remake the color of purple with white people for diversity 🤣
That's not really the best example my guy.
Ur racist just say it
Nah latinos
So I'm guessing your one of the racist people right