Does The 2025 Porsche 911 Carrera Prove The Haters Right? The Corvette and Mustang might be better.
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
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Porsche is a company with a huge following, but there's also plenty of people who don't like Porsches.
Their complaints are typical, the cars are overpriced, they have a horrible horsepower to dollar ratio, and they're expensive to repair, and these claims are all fairly accurate, but I've always found arguments against them. I've always said, yeah the Porsche 911 is expensive and doesn't have much horsepower for the money, but the 911 is a true drivers car, they've got that old school feel, they're lightweight, and you can still get one with a manual transmission and a naturally aspirated engine. I have a 993, which is the 911 that was produced between 1994 and 1998 and it is one of the most soulful and fulfilling cars I've ever driven.
But cars have changed a lot over the last few years, some for the better - and some for the worse.
The 911 carrera is widely believed to be the best sports car ever made, and the latest version was revealed just 1 month ago, but you wouldn't know it today, based on the complete lack of people talking about it. There is talk about the hybrid, but the carrera is the one we were all waiting for, and now that it's been revealed, no one seems to care.
And I think even Porsche is unexcited about this car - normally when they reveal a new 911 they have a huge grandiose spectacle to show off the new car. But the reveal event for the latest 911, if you can call it an event, was surprisingly underwhelming. And the event mostly focused on the Hybrid GTS and didn't say much about the carrera.
The new 911 should have been the most exciting car reveal of 2024, but instead it was the most underwhelming reveal. The C8 corvette debuted exactly 5 years ago in July of 2019, and people still won't shut up about it. The new 911 carrera should be the most talked about car in the automotive world! So what happened?
Well, over the past few years, the non-GT 911s, you know, the ones that the car dealerships will actually give us allocations for, have been stripped of all the 911 qualities we love, generation by generation, for the past 12 years.
With the 991.1, Porsche made the 911 huge and heavy, and you could no longer see or access the engine.
With the 991.2, the naturally aspirated engines had been replaced by turbo charged engines, the car was a lot more digital, and the beloved 5 analog gauges had been reduced to just 1 analog gauge.
And with the latest 922.2, we no longer have a manual transmission, it's almost completely digital, it's got a power to weight ratio of .1 horsepower per pound! and that last single analog dial that was clinging on for dear life has been replaced by a cheap looking digital screen.
Today, Porsche does not produce a single 911 with a manual transmission or a naturally aspirated engine. The only new 911s that porsche is currently producing are the carrera, the GTS hybrid, the turbo and the turbo S, all turbocharged, all automatic.
Now I love porsches, I own porsches, I'm always looking for new porsches to buy, but when I look at this car, I hear porsche saying "this is the 911 for peasants. Those who have purchased many, many cars from us in the past, and those who are millionaires, they may have the manual transmissions and the naturally aspirated engines, everyone else can drive *this*".
The newest 911 has a base price of 120 thousand dollars, and from a car enthusiast's perspective, you're not getting much for your money, especially once you start comparing the 911 to much cheaper alternatives.
Because while Porsche has spent the last 12 years taking away the things we love from the 911, companies like ford and chevy, have been giving their cars more of the things we love. In 2019 Chevy made the Corvette mid-engined and gave it a rather striking redesign. It also costs half as much as the 911, has 100 horsepower more and is a full second faster from 0-60 and it has a higher top speed - for half the price. I used to say, sure the C8 corvette's got some great qualities, but it doesn't have a manual transmission. Well, now neither does the 911.
And I can't believe I'm saying this, but for a third of the cost of the new 911, the new Ford mustang GT is a significantly better option. The mustang GT has a naturally aspirated 8 cylinder engine that produces 486 horsepower and it has a 6 speed manual transmission with rev matching. And get this, it weighs 500 lbs less than the new 911.Talk about a car for enthusiasts!
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I'm a Porsche guy. This video is a slap across the face. A rude awakening. You've sobered me up.
lol
You are right! A driver’s car has:
- a naturally aspirated engine
- a manual transmission
- real gauges
And Porsches don’t have start buttons.
You can compromise on the engine - good turbos aren’t awful.
My manual 992 Targa 4S checks enough boxes. The new cars check no boxes. My next car will be a pre-owned car.
Which power steering, hydraulic or electric?
@@johnfeliciano585 Rack and pinion steering, no assists. Bad for parking, good for driving.
Who made up the rule that having a NA engine and manual box is needed to be a driver's car? When you drive a 911 especially one of the later versions it's a precision tool compared to most other "so called" driver's car and this includes the Mustang and Vette. Overpriced most definitely but if you aren't willing to pay for that privilege then I am sure Ford or GM would gladly take your money.
All I can say is this is very much an American thing, the rest of the world aren't interested in a Vette or Mustang but you guys are because they are homegrown and you are very patriotic so championing home produce is a BIG TIME, especially when it's cheap.
Argument: People buy cars for different reasons! I would never buy a mustang, corvette, cadillac, etc. Those cars don't appeal to me. Plus the days of cheap cars are over sadly. Camry are $40k optioned. Though, I do admit that the 911 is significantly overpriced. And I don't remember a big pre-release for mid-cycle cars. It is not a new 911 just mid-life cycle.
I agree and would never buy one of those cars that are perhaps competitive for the power trade specs, but over all are terd. They do not have the history of a Porsche. I am sure Porsche engineers held sway with management to enhance the cars with the times.
@@ArnoldWintersprecisely, track them side by side and see which one finishes first, if the others ever cross the line!
Porsche marketing has been influenced by Rolex. Incremental design tweaks, artificial scarcity, silly “are you worthy”gatekeeping, pushing “AD spend” along with authorized dealers making sure their “preferred flipper” gets the in-demand stuff anyway.
I hope Porshe is watching this!!
The only argument that matters is, drive one! See what you pick.
thing is on the 992.1 the manual was also only available on s models but not on base carreras
992.1 GT3, GTS and Carrera T also available with manual transmissions
MY 911 is awesome: A 992.1 Targa Heritage Edition with a manual. But the moment that Porsche announced the new 911, I RAN to the dealership and bought……a Cadillac CT5-V BLACKWING with a 6-speed manual. Long story short: That Targa is the last new 911 I’ll buy…..probably. And my heart if broken.
718 GTS is the new 911.
No turbos and you can have a manuel gearbox.
Until it goes all electric very soon😞
Be nice to see a updated video on your personal Porsche collection, why you bought them and what you like/ dislike about them. Thank you,
Mustangs do look very good. They pretty much have a 911 greenhouse sitting on a muscle car. $50k, and you get 480hp @ 3800 lb M6 trans.
For $56.5k, you can get a manual 6 speed 3.0t Supra; Also a German ~3300 lb sports car. What does a 911 get you for more than 2x the price?
For 911s, I'll stick with the older generations.
But if you want the fun drivers' car: That's the Boxster, and has been for over a decade. Now you can get it with a 6 speed and a 4.0 L 8000 rpm engine. Not a great value proposition in the market @ $102k... But compared to a 911, it's a steal.
Like you I’m a Porsche fan and owner of a 911. There are a few points you talk about with which I disagree. One with which I absolutely agree : yes Porsches and 911ses in particular are very expensive indeed, undoubtedly too expensive. So, either you can afford one or you can’t.
But speaking of the power / price ratio is of little interest to my mind. You don’t choose a 911 or become a 911 fan because it is more powerful or exciting than the opposition. A 911 hasn’t a single thing in common with a Corvette or a Mustang. The driving experience and the unmistakeable silhouette of a 911 are unique just as is its architecture. You don’t compare a 911, you discover it and enjoy it, with or without a mechanical gearbox. A 911 owner doesn’t dwell on what the competition does or doesn’t do or how much less it costs. I drive a 992 4GTS and I’m globally totally satisfied with it and love it. I wouldn’t want another car even for half the price 😎
its now a Nerd car, digital, artificial, Cockpit is awful
💯
You forgot the most important financial aspect of buying a 911...resale value. The 911 has consistently, year after year, had the highest resale value of any new car. Sure, a well-equipped C8 is considerably less expensive than a 911, but after five years of ownership, you'll lose half its value. Five years from now, your 911 will have lost maybe 5-10% of its value. The 911 might be the most expensive car you'll buy but will also likely cost less in the long run than its competitors.
Straw man. I’m not happy with the direction Porsche leadership is taking the 911 program either, but nobody (NO-body) in the market for new 911 is considering a mustang or a corvette. Those people weren’t Porsche buyers to begin with.
Disagree, I’m right here.
@@cswooten1117 hard thumbs down
Agree with this. The buyer that's cross shopping a mustang and a 911 doesn't exist. Joke comparison by all standards. Yes, the Mustang has come a long way and is a great option in it's price category, but please.... The road feel. heritage, engineering and class of a 911 is in a completely different league. I do agree that much of the 911ness has been lost in the most recent generations. I own a 997 since 2007 and a 2024 992 Carrera T that I ordered end of last year. The 997 feels much more connected to the road and has a higher fun factor driving dynamics wise, but the 992 is super comfortable, much faster and sounds absolutely amazing when you sweep past 7k RPM. The 7MT is a dream in the 992.
@@user-mx8py3yv8rnot all hope is lost, Porsche dealer confirmed to me that the 2025 Carrera T will still have a manual. Have an allocation for it.
@@user-mx8py3yv8r My 992 C2S MT felt way overpriced for what it was. Heritage only matters when it can be felt in the current generation's lineup. I didn't feel it in mine.
The 991.1 is larger but lighter than the equivalent 997.
Not to mention Porsche dealers have become so greedy with ADM's on new car sitting in inventory as well as allocations. I have been looking for a GT3 or GT4RS after 4 Porsche's (2 new 911's), and not only can I not get an allocation but I refuse to spend $50k over sticker on a used GT car, I don't want to fuel this nonsense. What makes it worse, the people who do get allocations flip these cars with zero consequence or don't have a clue what they are buying and realize "oh, this is a race car for the street, it's far too uncomfortable" and sell it (for a profit). I just wish Porsche clamped down on ADM's from greedy dealers and that the cars weren't so trendy, 1/2 of GT car owners don't even use them and it keeps them away from people like me who would.
This blew my mind: the mustang is 500LBs lighter… 😳
Trade offs my friend. You are entitled to your own opinion, however there are 2 sides to this coin. The t-hybrid GTS lacks the naturally aspirated engine but removes turbo lag in a way that formula one cars have been doing for over 10 years. The e-motor sandwiched in the PDK 8 gear, boosts power and allows tracking the car faster than a manual transmission. I ordered my GTS Cab and looking forward to the most advanced 911 ever. The digital tach allows the driver to see the peripheral dials and the left sided start button starts the car just as the turn key starts the car. So what! My car will hold its value just as yours does. It is expensive but others will pay up rather than waiting 2 years for an allocation.
A great car doesn’t always mean expensive or high horsepower. Never has. Also damn near every new base 911 gets hated on. Then the top models come out then everyone loves the new model. It’s embarrassingly predictable. Also Corvettes and Mustangs are not Porsches. Even if a vette or a mustang is faster the Porsche driving experience will always be totally different because it’s an RR platform, so the comparison imo isn’t fair. I’d even argue that Porsche’s core customers don’t give a shit about top speed.
I agree. When I was at the Porsche dealership this weekend and asked how sales are going they shrugged and said they are still trying to get allocations for the old GTS filled. It doesn't sound good
Very surprised to hear from very experienced person things which beyond Porsche control. Regulations make cars now in EU
Legacy Porsche fan boy here. Have 992.1..bought 2024 GTS because of manual. Ferrari,Lambo, etc. too expensive. Corvette C8 Z06 was the only other car I considered. No stick, so no sale. It IS a time machine,tho. You are right. Porsche prices keep going up, and regular folks that can afford GT product can't get allocations. Dealer mark-ups left sour taste in many mouths.You may see Porsche eating crow in the next few years as their EV/Hybrid/Pricing strategy becomes uncompetitive.
Thank you for speaking the truth. Porsche has hollowed itself out as a brand. After owning 8 Porsches I’m no longer interested in the company that charges $1,300 for oil changes and whose showrooms have luggage and clothing for sale. When time came to buy a special car I bought Audi R8 with NA V10 motor and have zero regrets.
The only p car I will buy from now on would be an older one. And the offense Porsche has caused its hardworking and loyal customers by making top tier cars unattainable will not be forgotten. It’s sad but true.
Keep up the good work. Always enjoy hearing your perspective!
I live in the UK and I don’t know a single person who chooses a manual when an auto or better still a dual clutch is an option. Maybe in the US where automatics have been around since the Stone Age the desire for a manual is more important but worldwide I think it’s the opposite. Next the question of power vs price, the base Carrera has 400hp so by you reckoning does a Ferrari 296 sound crazy expensive as it’s only got double the power and cost two and half times the price. 🤣 Brands carries its own premium which is why Ford despite more power cost significantly less, the same for the Vette, neither of these two brands are classed as prestigious even in the US and certainly not outside of America.
Given the choice I would pick the 911 any day of the week over any Mustang or Vette.
Jason & Jason did a video not long ago about how the new 911 S/T feels like what the base model OUGHT to be
A purely driver-experience-focused car
It's sad to see what's become of modern Porsche.
"But it's faster around the Nurburgring"
Are YOU driving it like that around the Nurburgring?
Fun to drive doesn’t always mean expensive or high horsepower. Never has.
I dont understand the turbo hate. I love turbo engines! And I think t-hybrid is a genius thing...
Don’t forget the Macan and Cayenne count towards expensive allocations
Wow. You woke me up. Kinda like Apple. Yeah we’ll sell you an iPhone but all our best features are only in one phone. And you gonna have to pony up for it.
I’ve owned many 911’s and I completely agree with you. Poor performance for the money. Nowadays 500 hp doesn’t cut it. That’s coming from someone that’s owned many GT cars. I’d rather have a McLaren or a mustang GTD
Nothing is to expensive…it just means you have to make more money….as a hardcore track guy properly maintained Porsches preform and are reliable…yes hp to $$$ not the highest but you actually finish your day with a Porsche…rule 1 at least finish the race …or day for the rest of us…
I could also be that they need to make their strict carbon emissions numbers for the EU and by 2030 gas cars in the EU are to be phased out at this time.
You hit the nail on the head. Porsche has lost its way. I have owned 17 of them. Currently own a Turbo S 991.2. I have 2 Corvettes. I ordered the Mustang Dark Horse because Porsche is under-powered for the price and no manual. Heck I would get a 911 GTS if I could select gears by way of the console shifter like the GT Porsches. Get rid of the stupid razor numb and if I cannot have a manual then at least provide the ability to select gears at the console gearshift besides only the paddles!Porsche leadership has their head up their asses!!!! FU heavy 911 with low power, no manual and exorbitant prices!!!
I am Driving Corvettes and Mustangs now!!!!!
I agree with your comments!!!
Cheers Brother‼️👍👊💪🐎😎🇺🇸
Where there is a substitute for Porsches‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️🏆
I only buys ruf Porsches n Gunther werks
a mustang?? who is this guy
It all came crashing down when the accountants took over Porsche engineering. Nothing after the air-cooled 911s even matter. Too bloated, too isolated, too expensive, and short on power.
1.25 speed is amazing
Agreed
I’m disappointed that they didn’t introduce the hybrid in the actual Turbo model. That used to be the flagship for new tech.
@arcdriver1316 I think you lost focus by saying a mustang or corvette are better cars. Have you driven them on the track and compared? They simply don’t get close to the base 911 Carrera.
If Porsche makes an even better base Carrera, who is going to buy an S or GTS?
A freaking Wagoneer can be $120k, you’ll have to adjust your perception of value to todays devalued currency. Considering that-Porsche is still a good value for the money
I traded my MT 992 C2S for a Supra. The supra is not as fast, but it was more fun and felt like better quality than the 911. The 911 didn’t ride well, was loud as hell inside, had a numb 7 speed, and door rattles. Wasn’t worth $130k. Now that same car is $150k. Porsche can FRO until they make a better value proposition. Curious to see what they do with the 992.2 C2S, but with the starting price of a standard Carerra so high, it will likely make a new Z06 that much more appealing.
You lost me on the Corvette being a beautiful design... LOL
It's just the start.
I see only one problem with the Corvette and the Mustang, they're not Porsche. It's all fine if you want a car that makes V8-wroooms that impress your friends and/or looks "kinda" like an Italian sports car in front of your local Starbucks. Some people who buy Porsche, do it for the pedigree of a brand that was racing Le Mans when Corvette and Mustang still had leaf springs.
When every new 911 comes out, some people will ALWAYS cry "OMG! OMG Fail", but people will buy them and more importantly ... the previous generations will be more attractive. I bought a 991.1 a few years ago and i don't see myself upgrading anytime soon, but who knows what Porsche brings us in the future.
Just Joined up ! Hope You can help me find my first 911 , before I die !
Well said sir!
Ford Mustang GT weighs 500lbs. less than a 911? Come on buddy. lol
Yeah I remember writing in a comment to your video that they would have an ICE engine Ana that would offer manual. How stupid I was. This sucks. I could buy anything then if I want an automatic
That's why I didn't even look at 911's when i decided to buy a true sports car. I was curious about rear mid engine after Chevy came out with the C-8 but didn't want to pay that much and it's UGLY! I'm on my second Cayman and I can see why Porsche always made sure it didn't have the power to compete with and unseat their overrated, overpriced poser car. I'll never buy anything newer than a 2012 as VW has taken the brand the wrong direction.
Porches is Porches
Wrong…have c6 zr1 …2014 Nissan GT-R …2017 Nissan GT-R track edition….Subaru wrx sti 620 hp ..first 911 (still have it and all others mentioned) 1970 911 t changed engine to 2.7 was 23 when I bought it currently 53 .. my first track car .. then 911 1977 same engine set up of first but wider wheel base stiffer etc…then 1997 911 turbo,yes a silver 993 turbo (not a good track car but beautiful and everything you would want from a street driven sports car ..lastly 911 GT2RS …best track car in this bunch my opinion GT2RS obviously for reliability first and foremost! Next would be Subaru sti with 620 hp flared 275 Hoosiers all around…..like Porsche the top corvettes or mustang or anything else super sports only goes to the connected few ..
Of course Porsche's are more expensive than standard cars, just like Mercedes. Way better quality and exclusiveness. I specifically bought a Cayenne 3.1 rather than a X5 because it has a much superior interior finish and paint job. Plus it looks better.
Overpriced and every Porsche will be electric next year except the 911
Depressing.
mustang handling horribly
in the past yeah, in the present na
The 991 was lighter and more economical, yet faster and better built than the 997... Do your homework!