The Yoshinkan has an 'ichi' and 'ni' or omote and ura version of kotegaeshi. The ni version is what is being shown by O'Sensei in those pictures, to my understanding.
@MARIUSVL I like your initiative and appreciate technical assessments you have made. I have trained in hard Aikido (Yoshinkan and Iwama), soft Aikido (various Aikikai and Ki Aikido), traditional Korean Hapkido, and Daito Ryu. I always thought that I learned more about Aikido from Hapkido, and Daito Ryu because there were a lot of missing details that they worked on that I think increased my understanding of Aikido techniques. I agree with the comments that Yoshinkan practice includes the closest expression of this technique. You might see some video out there attempting to disprove the effectiveness of the Yoshinkan Ichi version. The video attempts to show the technique will not work because the defender will face away standing in front of the attacker while holding the attacker's hand behind the defender's body. However, there is a very important detail about the hand that is holding the attacker's hand. It is held low while taking the attacker's balance (affecting structure) and temporarily limits the attacker's movements directly toward the defender (AKA Uke). We may get some more insight from these Kuden on Kotegaeshi attributed to Master Ueshiba: "Apply Kotegaeshi from a lower position." and "Kotegaeshi should be performed at a lower height." Again, very good research!
There were different degree of turns for Kote Gaeshi in the Iwama School. Irimi Nage is the same way. What you show Daniel Toutain doing (90°), was the basic way. There were turns that were 30°- 45° to the line of attack and turns that were beyond 180°, like the one being discussed. Each had its own purpose. The only difference under Saito Sensei, was the hand was not left behind as shown with Ueshiba Sensei. Hands were always kept at center line. Some of the older Hombu Dojo teachers did it with the hand behind. I agree on the comment on editing. Sometimes photos are placed out of order and sometimes comments are put with the wrong photo. Some of Saito Sensei's books are that way too. There are some interesting thoughts that you are bringing up. Good work!
This is good. There are so many videos online about how gotegaeshi as trained today by the Aikikai simply does not work for many reasons... this version is more like the shihonage 4 corner throw, that's why the pin is the same, I don't think that pin is a mistake. So this really works because nage is safe from uke's counter and uke is off balance and if you try the standing pin by dragging the arm over the face of uke like the Aikikai teaches that simply won't work with a strong or trained person. This is why Aikido has such a bad name in modern UA-cam era, because people are NOT doing Aikido, they are doing what Tohei's junior students taught and still teach which was/is not proper. I have seen the back to back and done it but it was always some kind of fancy variation just to show off, never realy taught. I've struggled with why didn't Aikikai gotegaeshi really work, why did it allow an easy counter or punch to your face... this is why. Thanks for the video.
This is indeed is an excellent technique! Original one, O sensei's way! Agreed, this kote gaeshi has shiho nage principal in it. There are multiple ways to pin after kote gaeshi, shiho nage way, standing way , seated way.. Different styles do it differently, but as my video shows, this was without a doubt, Founder's way of doing it! Kote gaeshi Ura Kihon.
Hello Vano, i am not looking for old way aikido, i am looking for authentic aikido. Please check my other videos. Budo Renshu a.k.a Aikijujutsu Densho is a really problematic manual. You cannot study it the same way like Budo 1938 manual. Maybe i will make a video one day explaining this more throroughly.
@@vano-559 I see. But consider this: simple drawings of Ueshiba students performing techniques is not the same as Ueshiba himself photographed demonstrating the techniques. Don't you agree? There are much more problems with Budo Renshu. In any case i choose invest my time in studying from most or more reliable sources.
The Yoshinkan has an 'ichi' and 'ni' or omote and ura version of kotegaeshi. The ni version is what is being shown by O'Sensei in those pictures, to my understanding.
@MARIUSVL I like your initiative and appreciate technical assessments you have made.
I have trained in hard Aikido (Yoshinkan and Iwama), soft Aikido (various Aikikai and Ki Aikido), traditional Korean Hapkido, and Daito Ryu. I always thought that I learned more about Aikido from Hapkido, and Daito Ryu because there were a lot of missing details that they worked on that I think increased my understanding of Aikido techniques.
I agree with the comments that Yoshinkan practice includes the closest expression of this technique. You might see some video out there attempting to disprove the effectiveness of the Yoshinkan Ichi version. The video attempts to show the technique will not work because the defender will face away standing in front of the attacker while holding the attacker's hand behind the defender's body. However, there is a very important detail about the hand that is holding the attacker's hand. It is held low while taking the attacker's balance (affecting structure) and temporarily limits the attacker's movements directly toward the defender (AKA Uke). We may get some more insight from these Kuden on Kotegaeshi attributed to Master Ueshiba: "Apply Kotegaeshi from a lower position." and "Kotegaeshi should be performed at a lower height."
Again, very good research!
There were different degree of turns for Kote Gaeshi in the Iwama School. Irimi Nage is the same way. What you show Daniel Toutain doing (90°), was the basic way. There were turns that were 30°- 45° to the line of attack and turns that were beyond 180°, like the one being discussed. Each had its own purpose. The only difference under Saito Sensei, was the hand was not left behind as shown with Ueshiba Sensei. Hands were always kept at center line. Some of the older Hombu Dojo teachers did it with the hand behind.
I agree on the comment on editing. Sometimes photos are placed out of order and sometimes comments are put with the wrong photo. Some of Saito Sensei's books are that way too.
There are some interesting thoughts that you are bringing up. Good work!
This is good. There are so many videos online about how gotegaeshi as trained today by the Aikikai simply does not work for many reasons... this version is more like the shihonage 4 corner throw, that's why the pin is the same, I don't think that pin is a mistake. So this really works because nage is safe from uke's counter and uke is off balance and if you try the standing pin by dragging the arm over the face of uke like the Aikikai teaches that simply won't work with a strong or trained person. This is why Aikido has such a bad name in modern UA-cam era, because people are NOT doing Aikido, they are doing what Tohei's junior students taught and still teach which was/is not proper. I have seen the back to back and done it but it was always some kind of fancy variation just to show off, never realy taught. I've struggled with why didn't Aikikai gotegaeshi really work, why did it allow an easy counter or punch to your face... this is why. Thanks for the video.
This is indeed is an excellent technique! Original one, O sensei's way!
Agreed, this kote gaeshi has shiho nage principal in it. There are multiple ways to pin after kote gaeshi, shiho nage way, standing way , seated way..
Different styles do it differently, but as my video shows, this was without a doubt, Founder's way of doing it! Kote gaeshi Ura Kihon.
This techniques is a part of Yoshinkan syllabus.
Great👏
If you look for old way Aikido why don't you look for Budo Renshu book?
Hello Vano, i am not looking for old way aikido, i am looking for authentic aikido. Please check my other videos. Budo Renshu a.k.a Aikijujutsu Densho is a really problematic manual. You cannot study it the same way like Budo 1938 manual. Maybe i will make a video one day explaining this more throroughly.
@@MARIUSVL actually I study same way as Budo Renshu described. To me it's authentic Aikido.
@@vano-559 I see. But consider this: simple drawings of Ueshiba students performing techniques is not the same as Ueshiba himself photographed demonstrating the techniques. Don't you agree? There are much more problems with Budo Renshu. In any case i choose invest my time in studying from most or more reliable sources.
@@MARIUSVL there are few sources of Ueshiba-ha Daito-ryu. Budo Renshu is one of them.