As a drummer and Zeppelin fan for over 20 years, I figured this out a long time ago! Funny, it's not until I'm sitting here watching this with my morning coffee that I've EVER heard someone so plainly and perfectly explain this. Math is cool! The little hidden gems that that band inserted in to their music ALWAYS blows me away! Like watching a Kubrick film 100 times and always finding something else I didn't see previously!! Have a greet weekend dude!!
Sad thing is, I found someone on another video pointing it out only to get reamed for making a nerdy complaint. But a little thing like that can make the difference between it sounding slick and sounding amateurish.
69adrummer hey man I like your comment and yes This is one of the most stupid things I’ve ever heard, me as a drummer one of the most difficult fails to play was rush Freewill you probably know which one I’m talking about lol.
As a non-musician, I am completely impressed by your acumen and creative expression in the video format. Mixing in the Matrix cuts adds a catchy layer to your technical explanations. If you play music as well as you edit your videos, then you are truly a master craftsman. Thanks for the inspiration!
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yea.. tried it couple times and like 1 or 2 first tries I crossed them like I usually do O.o... need to really think to do it otyher way and damn it was odd
IT was actually the other way around: Bomham couldn't play it when they were recording it because he got it wrong like all of us. Once live, you can hear recordings where he keeps quarters on the hi hat and everything thus flows smoothly.
@@giovannispinotti Exactly. Neil Peart would've made it clearer. (I love Bonzo... but it's true) The band is SO loose from the very first "bah-dah-dah..." and that's the core of the confusion.
A musician usually doesn't know how complex Zeppelin's music is until you start (to try) to play it. Listening is one thing, playing is a whole different ball game. Then you see how many "different" time signatures come up, how repetitions are usually odd (repeat one section 4 times, then 3, then 6...), how your lines change and the level of detail is surmounting. Those guys are not "usual" and all of that sums up to form their genius
I really love the way you drill down into these interesting sections. Keep it up. Very informative and fun to discover simple things we have been doing wrong that are so easy to correct!
This is 100% wrong. Close is not good enough. I can prove this is wrong. The count is on the down count as said in this video. BUT it is it is NOT 1E& ..3e& 1e& ...it is really drag triplets on 1 on 3. and 1 again. the rest he has is ok... A very much different feel that gives it a slower drag than 1E&.. it gives it a 3/4 feel on those strums.. Try it with the actual song you will see. NOW you know the REAL secret.. Incidentally , the DRUMMER is the one who made this band. His use of the triplets and drag time drove the whole band. .Im a drummer and I make it my business to never be wrong in time. .
HAHA I was gonna write that too :D It made me laugh so hard :D This channel and guitar in general bring so much joy to my life! Man I'm so glad I started playing guitar 2 years ago with whoopin 26 years xD I missed so much joy my entire life until that point!
Man you are like 20 times better than any music teacher I had in school You actually put the reason behind and why we separate music into these times and notes. You helped me see music, which I think it is what every musician needs to start becoming good at it.
Yes they did. Every. Single. Time. These types of things happen when songs are recorded piecemeal and then spliced together in production. Very common. But we knew that already. Didn't we?
no they didn't. what you think is wrong; it is exactly what is outlined in this video. your ears and brain are wronged. Stop giving out wrong ideas. Listen to the famous live version, and you will actually see that you are wrong. John Bonham's downbeat exactly corresponds to Jimmy Page's starting note of that notorious phrase. You think they get that phrase wrong because you think Bonham's hi-hat is actually upbeat. No. Those videos, Bonham's hi-hats are actually downbeat. You will have to listen to them carefully, and you will see that his bass drum and high-hat are played at the same time in a couple of bars before this notorious phrase, and then he only continues to play hi-hat. So conclusion, I think you got it all mixed up and thought it was wrongly played by Led Zeppelin, but actually they did it correctly, and your ears and brain have been fooled like other people.
i'm thinking that because reggae is so based upon a particular rhythm that "math"-ifying it would turn it into something else entirely that's not really reggae at all. of course, i have no idea and don't actually listen to reggae or know anything about it so don't listen to me!
And now a word from someone who possesses the ability to do this joke without completely fucking it up *clears throat* Instructions unclear: dick is stuck in ceiling fan
great explanation... tottaly correct..... yes Jimi... does this on purpose... usualy the third note .. D sus4 would be played on the one... and a one..... but.... it's played ... one.. e.. and........ 16th notes are counted buy saying..... 1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a....
Its only hard when i look at notation. If you watch his hands and know how it sounds and PRACTICE then this is in no way difficult. Only when you try wrapping your head around upbeats, downbeats, time signatures, and trying to “feel it” do you get confused. Just listen and do. This is why I find tabs and music notation can actually confuse ppl more than help ppl sometimes, because we get bogged down with figuring things out on paper. That said, good vid, absolutely right.
This being the first song that made me obsessed with guitar i dove deep into playing every detail and immediately after discovering the song i found the live version at MSG and payed attention to the way Bonham kept the rhythm on the hi hat during that part. Feel proud of my 15 yr old self.
Every drummer knows this about "Stairway"; it's just that most guitarists are rhythmically illiterate (as most drummers are modally ignorant...but I'm tryin').
Because most guitarist are accustomed to "the first beat falls at the last strum of that first three strums of D" instead of "first beat falls on the first strum of that first three strums of D."
I was all hyped at 5:58 when I thought you were getting ready to lay into the solo ! It's like going on a date thinking your getting a kiss good night but then a punch in the face instead !
The riff for Black Dog was written by John Paul Jones though, and the odd timing could not have been possible without Bonzo. These decisions were often a group effort, which makes the cohesion that much more impressive.
What about the weird 15/4-ish drum opening on Rock and Roll? Was it a mistake that got enshrined later on as deliberate? Or was Bonzo just too advanced to play it in straight 4/4?
You Too That drum intro isn’t a mistake. Think of the timing as the same as a guitar intro for a Chuck Berry song. Those first three sixteenth notes are pickups to the downbeat. Count it like that, and suddenly it’ll make sense when the band comes in.
I've found another way to solve this passage timing. This will work for most of us who've been coming in on the lead-in half beat before the end of the measure. Here's what you need to do: 1. Let that D ring out for a full FOUR BEATS. 2. When you reach the 'FIFTH down-beat', play the two semiquavers (Dsus2 + D) -- BUT when you do them, you MUST re-imagine them as being the *lead-in* notes to a new song starting on the next bar -- ie. with the Dsus4 being the new down-beat reference. That keeps everything in time. NB. From this point onwards simply FORGET about applying a 4:4, 3:4, 5:4 time signatures etc. -- until you get to the first bend of the famous solo when it is back in regular 4:4. Just count from one beat to the next (just as a metronome does). This stops your brain getting mixed-up by the constant change of down-beat versus up-beat emphasis during this strumming passage. Give it a try!
Also your best course of action is to just not play this song on stage. Don't go there. Don't play Stairway, don't play Freebird, and don't play Bohemian Rhapsody. Just leave those alone and play something else.
my favorite part of the live version from "the song remains the same". I must have seen that movie every Saturday night ("midnight movie") my entire 4 years of high school.
@@CMMCM Yep. But it starts without any context so it's impossible to know without already having heard the song and easy to get stuck in the pattern of hearing it as if it's starting on 1.
@@dinospumoni663 I hear a staccato 1/4 note pick up on 4. And if you're not sure, it's repeated 4 more times in a row. There is nothing on the and of 3.
@@TheBillysabu Nah, the very first note of the intro drum pattern is on the "and" after 3. I guess this is a good example of how the beat is confusing lol. it starts: and-4-and-1-and-2-and-3 And then repeats. If it helps, the accents of the pattern are on the "and" of 3 and the 1, during the first few bars until his accents change.
I think you're right and wrong about this. You're definitely correcting the most common error and you're exactly right that most people are just not counting the full four beats before starting the section. And it should definitely be notated in 4/4 all the way through this section. But I think you overlook what causes people to make that mistake. On the album version of the song, the guitar starts a smidgin earlier than the drums in this section. Nothing you'd notate, it's just a slight eagerness to come in. It settles again by beat 3, but keeps straining forward whenever the drums aren't playing - the guitarist is leading the acceleration of the tempo. It doesn't seem like a mistake so much as a little push and pull between Page and Bonham's performances about how quickly the tempo should accelerate there. And the result is brilliant, the guitar brings this excitement and restlessness, like it's ready to burst out, and the drums bring solidity and power. So I think that's what some people mean by 'you just have to feel' this section. You'd notate an accelerando, but you wouldn't notate that 'straining forward' quality in the guitar unless you were obsessed with reproducing that exact performance. But plenty of people do just play it wrong by not counting the full four before starting the section.
The acoustic guitar definitely is a smidge ahead of the beat, so that some people notate it as being strummed in triplet sixteenths like a flamenco strum. The 12 string electric is more relaxed though, as is the strat.
@@Chris-MusicTheoryAndFretboard exactly. Some people are just having to deal with the sudden realization that all their convoluded and overly explained explanations, as to why they experience issues in those measures, are really a perfect example of the flimsy wall of protection pride constructs in order to avoid admitting what should have been obvious..... "I don't grasp this properly." But alas, truth remains elusive. Even in the privacy of ones own mind. I find myself guilty of such, at times. But no one has to know. Shhh
It's pointless trying to figure it out in musical terms as I wrote in my main comment on this video - it was all recorded in several takes, Zep were jamming thru the songs and it was edited together later by the engineer, they just felt the edits as they went and didn't actually count anything in terms of an entire piece !!!!
I think even with the rushing it's still just deliberately syncopated. You can see this just by counting along and hearing how awkward it feels despite being perfectly in time. And @Vice Squad if it wasn't deliberate it wouldn't magically match up in the end after perfect counts of 4/4.
Great video. I think this gets down to the fact that so many folks NEVER jam with others and only ever attempt ‘covering’ songs. Forget ‘covering’ everyone... start jamming together. Music is COMMUNICATION!!!! It’s not repetition. Take the Purple Pill!!!!!!
And there you have it! Just goes to show that learning the drums/ rhythm / how to count, really does makes you a better musician! Excellent work my friend!
6:05!!! Wow, 6:05!!! Bravo!!! The “crossing your arms in the wrong direction” bit deserves an award of some sort. I’m not even sure what for or why. But those few seconds of awkwardness, put on a screen, are perfect to me. And the song…. Wow
CoolsonGames If one of the pills does/changes nothing, why even offer it? Why not offer only the one that changes things, which can be taken or rejected?
CoolsonGames It's like being told you're gonna take a placebo then taking the placebo and expecting something to happen. I don't think any difference would've been noticed, even if there were a claim some sort of difference would've. So it's either pill or no pill in my book, not red ot blue. And if one makes you hallucinate--I'll do without, lol.
Your videos are so well done. Concise and very intelligent with just enough humor. Thank you 1000x!! you've helped me understand music theory so much more
I just lined up the original recording with a beat by beat tempo map and, you're correct, it does work out if you keep strict 4/4. The band speeds up from 87 to 95 bpm throughout the section, which adds to the confusion. I find it impossible to keep the beat straight while listening to the syncopated bars on the C#11add9 chord, even with a loud click playing, but Zep had a knack for that sort of thing. When Bonzo starts playing the snare on the backbeat, towards the end, it confirms that he was counting 4/4 throughout.
@@roas2 Yes, they have to learn the prima-dona complex, how to throw their toys out of their pram every time they don't get their own way or are criticised, how to get out of time every time they play a guitar solo, that buying a more expensive guitar is better than actual practice and that if you crank up the distortion and put on an amp sim effect you don't actually need any talent of playing ability.
Well, you know guitarists are already too good as they are to even try to learn any kind of basic rhythm. They have more important things to do. Y'know, philharmonic minor phryglilxian scales, scrub-picking arpeggiotos, etc. ;)
@@freakazoid4691 10 groupies or not guitarist still have much more time on their hands, when they get their instrument out and shred they climax in less than a minute, whereas drummers keep on pounding all night.
Great vid. THANKS! I (am probably old enough to be your Dad, &) started as a drummer in an '80s "hair-metal" band - ended up fronting classic rock & blues. It's a fun hobby - I left my "rock star" dreams where they belong, probably before you were born, but clearly you have a gift deserving of respect! One guitarist taught me enough bar/power-chords to back him w/ something resembling rhythm on his solos, but (being unable to walk & chew gum) I can't sing & play, & countless hours of practice only serve to prove that I peaked long ago... at best I'll still always be a hack, but I enjoy myself! But... 1/3 of my life playing literally every brass horn imaginable, I can read music, & know when it's wrong even though (as in this example) I'm unable to demonstrate "right."... I TOTALLY had a "Eureka" moment watching this vid... Thanks again! I told you all that so I could ask you this: "Cult of Personality" - why is that riff so apparently impossible for TRULY skilled musicians to play, & how can we help them fix it? To my ears we have half the band in 4/4 & the other in 5/4, meeting up again every 4 or 5 measures depending on which half you're in... Would love to hear your thoughts, I'm going to "sub" just in case you decide to humor me! Thanks!
Very well explained. Even "Black Dog" has a bar of 5/4 time in it, while the rest of the song is 4/4. As far as the bridge in "Stairway," initially even Bonham had a bit of trouble figuring out what to do here, but I doubt it took him long to solve it.
That was excellent. I've always heard that little half-beat jog before the body of the riff but couldn't put my finger on why it sounded "miscounted" if you will. And I guess I never really bothered to write it out but now I know! Terrific explanation. The count in my head will now be synced up with what I'm hearing. 🎵🎶
When I was learning this song many ages ago I got tired of learning it and I skipped that whole section and just went to learn the solo. I thought, "screw it let the backing track do that who cares, I'll just do the solo"
Brilliant. The content, but also the understanding that a false perspective can hold us back, and that teaching something we know helps us understand the subject matter in a way we wouldn’t normally, and change a false perspective. Nice work.
Am I the only person who has always thought that the strums started on 1? I have never felt it as +a1. I don’t know I guess I naturally assume that there isn’t an anacrusis unless it’s made apparent. Plus, longer notes are naturally accented, so it always felt intuitive to feel it as 1e+. Not saying I’m better than anyone I just think it’s weird that everyone feels the long strum is on 1.
Gibson Devens I felt it that way, but then would get thrown off by the last 3 chords all the “and”. Those always sounded like downbeats to me without the context of a backbeat
I always heard it aswell as starting on "1". Had no trouble counting along in 4/4. But then again, I was trained in classical violin playing, sight reading, singing, etc. since age 4. Syncopation felt quite natural. But yes, it's still a tricky part to perform! 😉
JAKE, I cannot believe that you or anyone I have yet seen on UA-cam has mentioned what REALLY takes place on Led Zeppelin records!!! I was very fortunate to have Jimmy Page come out and see my band in person in London a few years ago and we had over two hours together talking about stuff... He told me that their records were played in sections and edited together later. I mentioned that I was teaching a young guy to play Stairway and Jim told me, in person, and I will never forget this, that Stairway was NEVER played the same way twice by the band. It was cobbled together from the best takes and thats what is now etched into history. The most obvious example, there are actually so many, is the intro to Rock n Roll, which legions of drummers/bands have failed to get right... the answer??? The drum intro was cut together during mixing. I sincerely hope this revelation hasn't upset or thrown a spanner in the works of those analysing Led Zep's music. How can you count an edit??? YOU CAN'T!! I assure you my story is genuine, I am happy to talk about it to anyone who cares to ask ;-) MUCH LOVE x
@Martin G nahh.. that's not true bro... Pagey had an interest in Crowley for a while, then he got bored with it, in general terms the band couldn't be arsed with that spiritual shit.. they just got stoned and shagged lots of women ... and.. who wouldn't in their position? ;-) x
I'm a drummer. I listened and relistened, analyzed, and reanalyzed that drum intro to Rock n Roll when I was a teenager / younger adult, and the best I could come up with was one measure of some odd time signature right before the rest of the band comes in. It sounds like exactly 5 accented eighth notes before the band comes in. Little did I know! I played it with a band when I was in high school, and I was playing it the way it's heard on the album. They had a hard time following it. The guitarist said why don't you just do 8 accented eighth notes before we come in? I was so used to the way it was on the album, I didn't want to. They just watched when I was about to hit the crash cymbal so they would know when to come in. Because they couldn't count it!
James Taylor good comment. In truth audiences dont give the slightest of f*cks whether the intro is right or not... it took me years to figure out that its always best to figure out simple version of a song that all band members can play than mess about wasting time with intricate intros etc. x
@@jamestaylor1149 Hi, James. In the intro of Rock 'n Roll all you have to do is hear the first 3 hits (the snare-hh-hh) as "and 4 and " (the 6th,7th,8th beat) of an 8/8. Then the actual 1 starts and everything locks in easily. Try it.
Vice Squad ... so at what age is it considered rape when musicians fuck young teens and girls not even teens? Is Jimmy Page a rapist? What about David Bowie? Hmmmm. Why do I know anything about the type of deviant sexual intercourse musicians have with minors? The world many never know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a cherries vagina. Would you like to talk about it?
I gotta say I was skeptical when I first watched this but after a little research I agree. I think there are a three details though to point out that explain why the transition is so subtly tricky. 1.) The tempo increases throughout the entire song, 2.) The timing isn't strict here, either they're playing loosely and behind the beat or they shifted the tempo right at the transition and 3.) The absence of drums blurs the beat grid. Great vid and explanation!
Honestly, it's almost pure rhythm. Just a lot of polymeter and tough rhythms. Most college level percussionists can explain what's going on in a Meshuggah song (But perhaps not have the chops to actually play it.)
@@ketsuppi400 ahah I was about to post about Combustion too. I know it begins on the upbeat but damn I still struggle to feel it naturally when I hear it!
funnyguy2019 But that's a little bit different. Sex on Fire starts with a pickup bar, but not on the upbeat. Another way to think about it is that it starts on the 4th downbeat of the first bar.
Gijs van Dam The guitar riff of Sex On Fire starts on the upbeat, I think cause there's no drums initially people hear that first note as the 1 downbeat but it's the last eighth note of a silent bar.
I know what a pick up bar is, it's just that his talk about misleading rhythms reminded me of a video I saw abt two weeks ago: ua-cam.com/video/slDKUaJFNfE/v-deo.html In hindsight, it wasn't a direct correlation, but still pretty cool ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯
Hi Jake, I am a HUGE fan and this isn't by any means an "Actually" comment: just a small observation. I think the words you were looking for were "On-Beat" and "Off-Beat" instead of "Down-Beat" and "Up-Beat". Downbeats and upbeats are different things that you mentioned in the video. That could create some confusion! Nothing that affects your EXTREMELY good video!
I'm very scared of the copyright bots. Since it's all original music I think at worst they'll do revenue splitting and not just take the whole video down. The only actual clip from the song happens during my solo at the intro and i HEAVILY filtered it. Let's hope for the best...
I am reasonably sure this comes under "fair use" laws- You are clearly using the song in a completely different context, for a different purpose, and in very limited amounts. Ask a copyright lawyer, but I think your case may well be water tight.
Well, in Wayne's World they had to edit out a freakin' one bar of the opening riff for the TV and home video release, because Zep's backlog management company filed a complaint, for a single bar, played as a cover and not as a sample, by a movie character, in a context where a joke should have been, with just a few strokes of the strings. Talk about being draconian with copyright laws when no copyright laws were actually infringed.
I played in a high school band (long ago) and I remember we had some music that we had to learn how to count using the 1 e + a ... rhythm. We mastered the music after a lot of practice. We played the song in a concert even! I don’t remember the name of the piece but hearing you talk about counting out “Stairway to Heaven” reminded me of this hard lesson. Thank you for bringing back a great memory!
Hey, well done! I'm flattered you used my mixed-meter transcription :-) but that's still how I hear it. I have huge problems with unnecessarily complicated musical analysis (making the analysis more complex than the subject being analyzed), but I also have problems with oversimplifying (so the analysis doesn't articulate the sophistication of the music), such as hearing this passage strictly in 4/4. But I'm also coming to this music from a theory perspective. If thinking it in pure 4/4 makes it easier to perform, that's how it should be played! Again, very well done - I'll be watching more of your videos!
Wooohoo! I'm very relieved you didn't take it as an insult because that is exactly how I used to transcribe it for many years until I decided to look at it under the 4/4 lens. Your transcription was so nice and neat that I figured I'd just use it and credit you. Really this was just a fun exploration at the section, I honestly think both ways are completely legit since they both accurately reproduce the section. Also I thought it would be fun to make a video about :). Thanks for the comment!
Oh come on... how hard can it be to figure out how this part is written? Just count 4s throughout the song and be precise and careful and you have got it. Now playing that without getting confused WITH other musicians is a whole different story, but I think this part is simple to understand, mostly because its not very long and you dont have to count a long time in your head before the drum kicks in to give the right beat again towards the end before the e-guitar solo.
It's called chemistry as well as personal playing habits.....they weren't thinking about time signatures per say. I guess if you're covering another groups creativity then you need some kind of musical algebra equation to get it right but I will leave you with this..... "I don't deal in technique, I deal in emotion" - Jimmy Page
_"I don't deal in technique, I deal in emotion"_ If that were in any way true Yoko Ono would be bigger than Led Zepellin. ALL music deals in emotion, but you need to be at least technically proficient if you want people to buy your music
NoneOfYour Beeswax nope, emotion is a broad spectrum not black and white. I think he's mostly saying he doesn't get butt hurt if he hits a sour note. Page has a very unique style very jumpy and erratic where as Yoko ono is full of shit. I imagine he got bored of trying to run perfect solos and used that saying as his rebuttal either way my point that they probably didn't focus on the technicality of time signatures as much as the way it sounded stands.
Another great example is the beginning of The Kinks, You Really Got Me! you can clearly hear the transition from a downbeat to an upbeat. I always wondered how the song seemed to transform timing without transforming timing. Thanks for the education.
Excellent video. A clear and concise way to explain the misunderstood passage. A similar situation happens a couple of times in The Who's "Who Are You", when the huge band hits at 2:56 occur on the 2nd beat of the measure, but blurred perspective gives the impression that they're on the "1" beat. Common mistake.
To be honest it's always been the poorly executed solos that have grated on my ears. The song is so goddamned iconic even poor Jimmy sounded wrong playing it live. He shifted the position of the first down run and while still elegant, it was kind of jarring. For me, there are some things which are just etched in stone and are perfect and can never be replicated. Any band that undertakes this will inevitably be compared unfavorably. You *have* to make it your own, or suffer the indignation of failure. As a photographer, it would be like trying to recapture Marilyn Monroe's iconic flying dress shot. It's a moment etched in stone. No woman could evoke the same expression and beauty, have the dress fly in that perfect way, and be captured from that perfect angle and lighting the way she was at that moment. I mean... it's... *possible*... but damn. It's really asking for an implausible level of excellence. Anyway, just my $3.
@Starhippo Hippo If the timing on the first down run in these two versions sounds the same to you, I don't know what to tell you. ua-cam.com/video/UqqKKa9AJK4/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/D9ioyEvdggk/v-deo.html
@@darioinfini you're absolutely correct here. If someone says that these sound the same then they clearly don't understand syncopated rhythm. The first link sounds like he doesn't really hear the Drummer and he's going off of his own rhythm inside of his head which isn't always following the timing of the song that the Drummer is trying his best to stay in sync with. And the second link is obviously the studio version that has a professional engineer that's quanatized the instruments, within the rhythm of the song, within a mastered mix of the song in its entirety. The first link is hard for a Black man like myself to listen to comfortably; and I'm a musician. And have been since I was very young (I'm 53 now). Rhythm is something that has been programmed into my DNA. And I take no credit for it, it's a gift from GOD. But these are clearly different even though they are the same song. It's comparable to a vocalist being autotuned in the studio and then being expected to perform live without the autotuning. Your ears immediately pick up on it. Even if they can get pretty close to the recorded version. It's just not the same. Thanks for the links. You've effectively proved your case counselor. (Gavel slams!! Case dismissed😏)
@@redbrown7355 Haha thanks man. I learned to play that solo when I was 13 and I'm just slightly older than you. Maybe its just us old timers that can hear it LOL.
@@darioinfini Yeah brotha you may be right😂😂😂 However, I truly appreciated how you laid out your case because as I stated in my comments, I am an Ol' School Black man that didn't grow up listening to this genre of music necessarily. Even though I know the song somewhat ( I mean who doesn't right). But not well enough to debate it's content with someone that grew up listening to what we now call "Classic Rock". So bringing it like you did allowed me to get into the debate, sort of like a Judge listening to the evidence being presented in a court of law (I may have missed my calling, LOL!!) But It is absolutely undeniable evidence my friend!! In my opinion of course. Others may disagree but I don't see how.
Whole other can of worms , Page did not try to play it like the record , and is great at improvising The riff had stops in it and marched along Page was great in his day at using relative diminished with melodic minor , Dickey Betts also approached music this way The Rain Song is great Dancing days , the application of theory is obvious
That's cool, cause how you just explained the bridge is how I've always felt it, and I constantly worried that I was feeling it wrong. Thank you for confirming my original beliefs.
My official tab book tells me: “your stairway lies on the whispering wind”, D major chord, 9/8, 4/4, 3/4, 4/4, 5/4, 4/4, 7/8, 4/4, 4/4, guitar solo. Edit: also, they’re triplets, the 3 chords in a row, it’s triplet grouping not straight 16th notes.
That’s not what it sounds like at considering the drummer plays the bass drum as sixteenths on the parts yours notates as triplets. If you listen close enough you can tell they are sixteenth notes. Additionally, the time signature changes make no sense at all considering they all are equivalent to 4/4 meter when it’s all set and done.
This video's explanation is accurate and true. There are no triplets- just the exact 16th note rhythms notated-no odd times- whatever is in some tab book is wrong.
This video is awesome. Everything here is 100% correct and it’s a very cool analysis of a pretty often over looked facet of a popular, albeit overplayed, modern pop classic. What’s not awesome is the perception (in the comments) that “feeling something out” is necessarily a bad thing when it comes to music. If the part consistently hits with a band and a player doesn’t have a theoretical understanding of it, (perhaps you’re adding an eighth note that isn’t on the record and the group is accommodating) then that is okay. In a live performance context as long as there’s not a noticeable tear or the difference is harmful to the performers, then play it in whatever way accomplishes the a good take. TL;DR this playa isn’t tryna shit on you if you don’t syncopate this part. He’s just sayin “hey most people play it like this, but on the record it’s actually this. Innit that weird?”
6:42 -- probably not Page who played the trick, but rather John Paul Jones. He was the most musically knowledgeable cat in the band. Before Zep he was an arranger and studio musician. Oh and he also played all the keyboard parts in the later Zep recordings.....
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![Rhythmic Riddle - Writing with Unwritable Rhythms [Theory/Songwriting]](/img/tr.png)
![Understanding and Using Odd Time Signatures - 6 Examples [MUSIC THEORY / RHYTHM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T8AaalPfxYk/mqdefault.jpg)
Hearing you begin to vocal "bweeow" the guitar solo at 5:58 made me happy.
ditto..ditto
Jimmy Page:
"I pulled a sneaky on ya"
Since I Been Loving You: "I pulled a squeaky on ya"
Bob Ross’s son.
As a drummer and Zeppelin fan for over 20 years, I figured this out a long time ago!
Funny, it's not until I'm sitting here watching this with my morning coffee that I've EVER heard someone so plainly and perfectly explain this.
Math is cool! The little hidden gems that that band inserted in to their music ALWAYS blows me away! Like watching a Kubrick film 100 times and always finding something else I didn't see previously!!
Have a greet weekend dude!!
Sad thing is, I found someone on another video pointing it out only to get reamed for making a nerdy complaint. But a little thing like that can make the difference between it sounding slick and sounding amateurish.
@@BeeWhistler If you're right, tho, who cares? Right is right. :).
This guy is just looking for atention!
69adrummer hey man I like your comment and yes This is one of the most stupid things I’ve ever heard, me as a drummer one of the most difficult fails to play was rush Freewill you probably know which one I’m talking about lol.
As a non-musician, I am completely impressed by your acumen and creative expression in the video format. Mixing in the Matrix cuts adds a catchy layer to your technical explanations. If you play music as well as you edit your videos, then you are truly a master craftsman. Thanks for the inspiration!
“Kind of like crossing your arms in the wrong direction”
*immediately tries it*
*feels violated*
I have never crossed my hands before.
I always thought it was a gesture of impatience and boredom.
My boi got a green screen
Freddie Mercury nigga is everywhere
Sorry dad but i got no life
he's just counting shitty
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Jesus Chrysler do any of you fKing prematez piquEnglazeyez?
Also man your editing is improving a lot!
ay
One da yoYO neayt
adobe
Say something else bro
Is there a full version of "I want to syncopate"
i love how he drags paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate. so good
Nothing to do, no where to go o,
I wanna be syncopated
... Oh wait, wrong song. Sorry.
Yea look in you're mom's record collection.
syncopation?
Yeah, mind instantly wandered to raggae and ska.
I legitimately want the full length track
I think the most surprising fact I take from this is how weird it feels crossing my arms the other way.
Lol. Me too!! It funny the stuff we do but never really think about.
yea.. tried it couple times and like 1 or 2 first tries I crossed them like I usually do O.o... need to really think to do it otyher way and damn it was odd
I can do it both ways without any Hinderence, of course now I'm confused which one is my usual way of crossing them
OMG, that's funny. I actually tried it. Took me a second!
@@batmanthemightiestavenger9129 same for me
"I've spent 20 years around guitar players."...and he looks 20 yo.
Lol..that's what i thought.
If his father or mother was a guitarist ?
Yes
Some of us are blessed with good looks.
mercster rather!
Even if Jimmy Page didn't realize this, John Bonham knew what was going on😂
Aye'.. they both knew...believe that!!!
Jimmy was the architect
IT was actually the other way around: Bomham couldn't play it when they were recording it because he got it wrong like all of us. Once live, you can hear recordings where he keeps quarters on the hi hat and everything thus flows smoothly.
@@giovannispinotti Exactly. Neil Peart would've made it clearer. (I love Bonzo... but it's true) The band is SO loose from the very first "bah-dah-dah..." and that's the core of the confusion.
Page was a session musician before the Yardbyrds
A musician usually doesn't know how complex Zeppelin's music is until you start (to try) to play it. Listening is one thing, playing is a whole different ball game. Then you see how many "different" time signatures come up, how repetitions are usually odd (repeat one section 4 times, then 3, then 6...), how your lines change and the level of detail is surmounting. Those guys are not "usual" and all of that sums up to form their genius
Well said. I felt the same way. Much of their music is much more difficult than it sounds. Like you said, it's their genius!
Same is true for the Beatles.
Totally agree! Their later stuff was remarkable and NOT easy!
Quincy Jones' opinion on The Beatles is my favorite!
plus lsd
Didn't you read the sign dude ?! 'NO STAIRWAY !'
denied....
@@ablaylock4273 beat me to it
Denied
🤣🤣
Good times! Love the Wayne’s World movies! 👊😎
5:58 I wanna hear the rest of the solo, I could hear you go: “wreough!” Just before it ended
I really love the way you drill down into these interesting sections. Keep it up. Very informative and fun to discover simple things we have been doing wrong that are so easy to correct!
Yep! This is so true. And when this song is covered, the drummer is usually the one who gets blamed for not keeping 'proper' time!
This is 100% wrong. Close is not good enough. I can prove this is wrong. The count is on the down count as said in this video. BUT it is it is NOT 1E& ..3e& 1e& ...it is really drag triplets on 1 on 3. and 1 again. the rest he has is ok... A very much different feel that gives it a slower drag than 1E&.. it gives it a 3/4 feel on those strums.. Try it with the actual song you will see. NOW you know the REAL secret.. Incidentally , the DRUMMER is the one who made this band. His use of the triplets and drag time drove the whole band. .Im a drummer and I make it my business to never be wrong in time. .
@Martin G Screw that, I blame the guitar player.
I'm with Nick Mason on that score. He blames the bassist.
@5:57 lmao at the vocal guitar solo entry!
HAHA I was gonna write that too :D It made me laugh so hard :D This channel and guitar in general bring so much joy to my life! Man I'm so glad I started playing guitar 2 years ago with whoopin 26 years xD I missed so much joy my entire life until that point!
That is so me every time I hear Stairway to Heaven XD
phaaaaaw
Nay
😂😂I just wrote this same comment. Really funny stuff
Pwweaooohhww ..
Man you are like 20 times better than any music teacher I had in school You actually put the reason behind and why we separate music into these times and notes. You helped me see music, which I think it is what every musician needs to start becoming good at it.
You can give the band credit but even they counted this part wrong live.
Yes they did. Every. Single. Time.
These types of things happen when songs are recorded piecemeal and then spliced together in production. Very common.
But we knew that already. Didn't we?
He held the bong RIP too long and lost count when he started cough'n!
@Phil Weatherley Ann has always done such an amazing job on the zepplin covers.
Interesting. I have to check it out
no they didn't.
what you think is wrong; it is exactly what is outlined in this video. your ears and brain are wronged.
Stop giving out wrong ideas.
Listen to the famous live version, and you will actually see that you are wrong. John Bonham's downbeat exactly corresponds to Jimmy Page's starting note of that notorious phrase.
You think they get that phrase wrong because you think Bonham's hi-hat is actually upbeat. No. Those videos, Bonham's hi-hats are actually downbeat. You will have to listen to them carefully, and you will see that his bass drum and high-hat are played at the same time in a couple of bars before this notorious phrase, and then he only continues to play hi-hat.
So conclusion, I think you got it all mixed up and thought it was wrongly played by Led Zeppelin, but actually they did it correctly, and your ears and brain have been fooled like other people.
I struggle with tricky rhythms occasionally but this is one that I’ve always been able to feel correctly. I had no idea people struggled with it.
Great video. And it makes me wonder. Does Math Reggae exist?
follow your dreams
Sig ragga (1st record mostly)
You forgot "Oooooooooooooo"
Math Reggae - thank God, Jah or whoever... does simply not exist. It`s a scientific fact we should all embrace.
i'm thinking that because reggae is so based upon a particular rhythm that "math"-ifying it would turn it into something else entirely that's not really reggae at all. of course, i have no idea and don't actually listen to reggae or know anything about it so don't listen to me!
Very well explained! Both Page and Bonzo were masters of time and rhythm tricks. They knew exactly what they were doing.
Instructions unclear: Now have my arms in a knot.
I feel your comment deserves to be up there at the top of the comments. It made me laugh real hard.
And how were you able to typewrite your comment? ... Oh, with your nose...
@@dragonmartijn I have a fairly pointy nose.
@@robertofontiglia4148 Appreciated!
And now a word from someone who possesses the ability to do this joke without completely fucking it up
*clears throat*
Instructions unclear: dick is stuck in ceiling fan
I've watched this a billion times and I still can't get my head around it
Watch and try to sing like thé voice between 5:30 and 6mn.dizains of times
Anyone ever tell you that you have a golden voice? I could listen to you talk all day lol❤️
great explanation... tottaly correct..... yes Jimi... does this on purpose... usualy the third note .. D sus4 would be played on the one... and a one..... but.... it's played ... one.. e.. and........ 16th notes are counted buy saying..... 1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a....
@@lennyluzitano8920 Got enough fucking periods??? Holy shit your comment looks like it was shot up by a bunch of gangsters
Great video, as always. But I'm really loving your intros, always get a good laugh from them.
I feel there's a time and a place for them.... this qualified!
Petty officer of men masturbating
Petty officer
Petty officer
@@SignalsMusicStudio the first time
Its only hard when i look at notation. If you watch his hands and know how it sounds and PRACTICE then this is in no way difficult. Only when you try wrapping your head around upbeats, downbeats, time signatures, and trying to “feel it” do you get confused. Just listen and do. This is why I find tabs and music notation can actually confuse ppl more than help ppl sometimes, because we get bogged down with figuring things out on paper. That said, good vid, absolutely right.
This being the first song that made me obsessed with guitar i dove deep into playing every detail and immediately after discovering the song i found the live version at MSG and payed attention to the way Bonham kept the rhythm on the hi hat during that part. Feel proud of my 15 yr old self.
Every drummer knows this about "Stairway"; it's just that most guitarists are rhythmically illiterate (as most drummers are modally ignorant...but I'm tryin').
J Lopez This...
Most amateur guitarists of my generation think "mode" means the pie comes with ice cream.
(The younger ones are probably better educated.)
Because most guitarist are accustomed to "the first beat falls at the last strum of that first three strums of D" instead of "first beat falls on the first strum of that first three strums of D."
I listened again and again and get use to it. When I play with drum beat the damn guitar don't synchronized with the drum.
I was all hyped at 5:58 when I thought you were getting ready to lay into the solo ! It's like going on a date thinking your getting a kiss good night but then a punch in the face instead !
That's brilliant. Deliberate by Page. He does that in Black Dog too. The opening riff starts on the upbeat.
The riff for Black Dog was written by John Paul Jones though, and the odd timing could not have been possible without Bonzo. These decisions were often a group effort, which makes the cohesion that much more impressive.
Here comes the John Paul Jones riff comments
What about the weird 15/4-ish drum opening on Rock and Roll? Was it a mistake that got enshrined later on as deliberate? Or was Bonzo just too advanced to play it in straight 4/4?
@@youtoo2233 JPJ is a goddamn genius. You can fuck right off.
You Too That drum intro isn’t a mistake. Think of the timing as the same as a guitar intro for a Chuck Berry song. Those first three sixteenth notes are pickups to the downbeat. Count it like that, and suddenly it’ll make sense when the band comes in.
5:58 I like how you started the guitar solo with your voice, "Bwaooooow." and might I add
doodle doodle doodle doodle doodle doo!
the guitar intro to "She's a Woman" by The Beatles is a perfect example of tricking your ear with upbeats.
Or the intro to "You Really Got Me".
Or "Too Much Time on my Hands" by Styx
Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except For My Monkey! King of ear-tricky intros.
Exactly Kevin Richards (vocal coach of Rod Stewart AND Larry Greenberg)
The beginning to the Beach Boys, "Caroline No"
I've found another way to solve this passage timing.
This will work for most of us who've been coming in on the lead-in half beat before the end of the measure.
Here's what you need to do:
1. Let that D ring out for a full FOUR BEATS.
2. When you reach the 'FIFTH down-beat', play the two semiquavers (Dsus2 + D) -- BUT when you do them, you MUST re-imagine them as being the *lead-in* notes to a new song starting on the next bar -- ie. with the Dsus4 being the new down-beat reference. That keeps everything in time.
NB. From this point onwards simply FORGET about applying a 4:4, 3:4, 5:4 time signatures etc. -- until you get to the first bend of the famous solo when it is back in regular 4:4. Just count from one beat to the next (just as a metronome does). This stops your brain getting mixed-up by the constant change of down-beat versus up-beat emphasis during this strumming passage.
Give it a try!
you sir, are one of the best - if not the absolute best music teacher on youtube - hands down
Also your best course of action is to just not play this song on stage. Don't go there. Don't play Stairway, don't play Freebird, and don't play Bohemian Rhapsody. Just leave those alone and play something else.
Like...your own shit.
All the same, it's good for a disciplined musician to understand.
Don't play Sweet Child either for that matter!
Or Hendrix All along the watchtower
I don't think bohemian belongs with classics like stairway and freebird.
"Has anybody seen the bridge? I'm just tryin to find the bridge. I'm lookin for the bridge"!
my favorite part of the live version from "the song remains the same". I must have seen that movie every Saturday night ("midnight movie") my entire 4 years of high school.
I was a Jr when John Bonham died and graduated in 1981.
Where's that confounded bridge?
😂😂 Lolllll....
I think you've already crossed the bridge.
I just taught this one on the ukulele on my channel, this part took me forever to work out! Hahaha.
Subbed!
I knew it wasn't just me that was confused by it! Great channel btw, I'm going to send all my uke-playing students your way
@Martin G Literally thousands of people.
The intro to "Rock and Roll" by the same band produces a similar effect of not knowing where the 1 is.
it starts on the and of 3.
@@CMMCM Yep. But it starts without any context so it's impossible to know without already having heard the song and easy to get stuck in the pattern of hearing it as if it's starting on 1.
@@dinospumoni663 I hear a staccato 1/4 note pick up on 4. And if you're not sure, it's repeated 4 more times in a row. There is nothing on the and of 3.
But nobody will give a shit if you want to play it on the and of 3
@@TheBillysabu Nah, the very first note of the intro drum pattern is on the "and" after 3. I guess this is a good example of how the beat is confusing lol.
it starts: and-4-and-1-and-2-and-3
And then repeats.
If it helps, the accents of the pattern are on the "and" of 3 and the 1, during the first few bars until his accents change.
YES!!! Finally. I always just thought of it as an "extra beat" and just did it by feel. But your notation makes sense.
I think you're right and wrong about this. You're definitely correcting the most common error and you're exactly right that most people are just not counting the full four beats before starting the section. And it should definitely be notated in 4/4 all the way through this section.
But I think you overlook what causes people to make that mistake. On the album version of the song, the guitar starts a smidgin earlier than the drums in this section. Nothing you'd notate, it's just a slight eagerness to come in. It settles again by beat 3, but keeps straining forward whenever the drums aren't playing - the guitarist is leading the acceleration of the tempo. It doesn't seem like a mistake so much as a little push and pull between Page and Bonham's performances about how quickly the tempo should accelerate there. And the result is brilliant, the guitar brings this excitement and restlessness, like it's ready to burst out, and the drums bring solidity and power.
So I think that's what some people mean by 'you just have to feel' this section. You'd notate an accelerando, but you wouldn't notate that 'straining forward' quality in the guitar unless you were obsessed with reproducing that exact performance. But plenty of people do just play it wrong by not counting the full four before starting the section.
The acoustic guitar definitely is a smidge ahead of the beat, so that some people notate it as being strummed in triplet sixteenths like a flamenco strum. The 12 string electric is more relaxed though, as is the strat.
Nah, he's right.
@@Chris-MusicTheoryAndFretboard exactly. Some people are just having to deal with the sudden realization that all their convoluded and overly explained explanations, as to why they experience issues in those measures, are really a perfect example of the flimsy wall of protection pride constructs in order to avoid admitting what should have been obvious..... "I don't grasp this properly."
But alas, truth remains elusive. Even in the privacy of ones own mind.
I find myself guilty of such, at times. But no one has to know. Shhh
It's pointless trying to figure it out in musical terms as I wrote in my main comment on this video - it was all recorded in several takes, Zep were jamming thru the songs and it was edited together later by the engineer, they just felt the edits as they went and didn't actually count anything in terms of an entire piece !!!!
I think even with the rushing it's still just deliberately syncopated. You can see this just by counting along and hearing how awkward it feels despite being perfectly in time.
And @Vice Squad if it wasn't deliberate it wouldn't magically match up in the end after perfect counts of 4/4.
“And if you listen very hard, the truth will come to you at last.”
It was there all along!!! It's so clear now
I thought it was tune?
Great video. I think this gets down to the fact that so many folks NEVER jam with others and only ever attempt ‘covering’ songs.
Forget ‘covering’ everyone... start jamming together. Music is COMMUNICATION!!!! It’s not repetition.
Take the Purple Pill!!!!!!
TrackHead Studios what he said ^
And there you have it! Just goes to show that learning the drums/ rhythm / how to count, really does makes you a better musician!
Excellent work my friend!
6:05!!! Wow, 6:05!!! Bravo!!!
The “crossing your arms in the wrong direction” bit deserves an award of some sort. I’m not even sure what for or why. But those few seconds of awkwardness, put on a screen, are perfect to me.
And the song…. Wow
Good times odd times you know I'll have my share
Morpheus: *offers red and blue
Me: *eats them both.
Morpheus: am I a joke to you?
CoolsonGames If one of the pills does/changes nothing, why even offer it? Why not offer only the one that changes things, which can be taken or rejected?
@@joelbaldwin4051 r/woosh
CoolsonGames It's like being told you're gonna take a placebo then taking the placebo and expecting something to happen. I don't think any difference would've been noticed, even if there were a claim some sort of difference would've. So it's either pill or no pill in my book, not red ot blue. And if one makes you hallucinate--I'll do without, lol.
@@joelbaldwin4051 r/woosh
CoolsonGames I don’t think you understand when to use r/whooosh
I dig that red pill intro
It's great to find guitar channels who think off the scale
Wink
Your videos are so well done. Concise and very intelligent with just enough humor. Thank you 1000x!! you've helped me understand music theory so much more
I just lined up the original recording with a beat by beat tempo map and, you're correct, it does work out if you keep strict 4/4. The band speeds up from 87 to 95 bpm throughout the section, which adds to the confusion. I find it impossible to keep the beat straight while listening to the syncopated bars on the C#11add9 chord, even with a loud click playing, but Zep had a knack for that sort of thing. When Bonzo starts playing the snare on the backbeat, towards the end, it confirms that he was counting 4/4 throughout.
Great job explaining this!
It's amazing what is a beginners timing lesson for drummers turns out to be an advanced timing lesson for guitarists.
@@roas2 Yes, they have to learn the prima-dona complex, how to throw their toys out of their pram every time they don't get their own way or are criticised, how to get out of time every time they play a guitar solo, that buying a more expensive guitar is better than actual practice and that if you crank up the distortion and put on an amp sim effect you don't actually need any talent of playing ability.
Well, you know guitarists are already too good as they are to even try to learn any kind of basic rhythm. They have more important things to do. Y'know, philharmonic minor phryglilxian scales, scrub-picking arpeggiotos, etc. ;)
@@hardtohandleweddingbandent8653 I'm a solo busking drummer. You must be a guitarist. not even a bass player could know so little about music.
How do you expect guitarists to have as much time to practice as drummers when they get ten times more groupies? :)
@@freakazoid4691 10 groupies or not guitarist still have much more time on their hands, when they get their instrument out and shred they climax in less than a minute, whereas drummers keep on pounding all night.
Great vid.
THANKS!
I (am probably old enough to be your Dad, &) started as a drummer in an '80s "hair-metal" band - ended up fronting classic rock & blues.
It's a fun hobby - I left my "rock star" dreams where they belong, probably before you were born, but clearly you have a gift deserving of respect!
One guitarist taught me enough bar/power-chords to back him w/ something resembling rhythm on his solos, but (being unable to walk & chew gum) I can't sing & play, & countless hours of practice only serve to prove that I peaked long ago... at best I'll still always be a hack, but I enjoy myself!
But...
1/3 of my life playing literally every brass horn imaginable, I can read music, & know when it's wrong even though (as in this example) I'm unable to demonstrate "right."...
I TOTALLY had a "Eureka" moment watching this vid... Thanks again!
I told you all that so I could ask you this:
"Cult of Personality" - why is that riff so apparently impossible for TRULY skilled musicians to play, & how can we help them fix it?
To my ears we have half the band in 4/4 & the other in 5/4, meeting up again every 4 or 5 measures depending on which half you're in...
Would love to hear your thoughts, I'm going to "sub" just in case you decide to humor me!
Thanks!
Yes, PLEASE give us Cult of Personality lowdown!! Even going to Living Colour's concert, it was jarring as two sides seemed to battle it out onstage!
Very well explained. Even "Black Dog" has a bar of 5/4 time in it, while the rest of the song is 4/4. As far as the bridge in "Stairway," initially even Bonham had a bit of trouble figuring out what to do here, but I doubt it took him long to solve it.
Flippin high quality video! First video I have watched of yours. Very interesting and very informative all at the same time!
That was excellent. I've always heard that little half-beat jog before the body of the riff but couldn't put my finger on why it sounded "miscounted" if you will. And I guess I never really bothered to write it out but now I know! Terrific explanation. The count in my head will now be synced up with what I'm hearing. 🎵🎶
When I was learning this song many ages ago I got tired of learning it and I skipped that whole section and just went to learn the solo. I thought, "screw it let the backing track do that who cares, I'll just do the solo"
Great lesson very good video and well explained ! Thanks for the upload !! You are a very goo teacher !
Brilliant. The content, but also the understanding that a false perspective can hold us back, and that teaching something we know helps us understand the subject matter in a way we wouldn’t normally, and change a false perspective. Nice work.
EXCELLENT video. Thanks for shedding light for those who choose to see and understand it.
I believe Satan wrote it and they just did what the were told to play.
Satan seems to have some really good taste in music.
Definitely Page at least.
I hear that Satan is watching the appeal of the Spirit case with great interest.
I always assumed Peter Grant MADE Satan give them this song
Satan sold his soul to Jimmy Page
Am I the only person who has always thought that the strums started on 1? I have never felt it as +a1. I don’t know I guess I naturally assume that there isn’t an anacrusis unless it’s made apparent. Plus, longer notes are naturally accented, so it always felt intuitive to feel it as 1e+. Not saying I’m better than anyone I just think it’s weird that everyone feels the long strum is on 1.
Gibson Devens I felt it that way, but then would get thrown off by the last 3 chords all the “and”. Those always sounded like downbeats to me without the context of a backbeat
I always heard it aswell as starting on "1". Had no trouble counting along in 4/4. But then again, I was trained in classical violin playing, sight reading, singing, etc. since age 4. Syncopation felt quite natural. But yes, it's still a tricky part to perform! 😉
I agree; I also played in wind ensemble growing up, I bet having that training helps people hear it better.
Not sure why you count, just fucking play it
JAKE, I cannot believe that you or anyone I have yet seen on UA-cam has mentioned what REALLY takes place on Led Zeppelin records!!! I was very fortunate to have Jimmy Page come out and see my band in person in London a few years ago and we had over two hours together talking about stuff... He told me that their records were played in sections and edited together later. I mentioned that I was teaching a young guy to play Stairway and Jim told me, in person, and I will never forget this, that Stairway was NEVER played the same way twice by the band. It was cobbled together from the best takes and thats what is now etched into history. The most obvious example, there are actually so many, is the intro to Rock n Roll, which legions of drummers/bands have failed to get right... the answer??? The drum intro was cut together during mixing. I sincerely hope this revelation hasn't upset or thrown a spanner in the works of those analysing Led Zep's music. How can you count an edit??? YOU CAN'T!!
I assure you my story is genuine, I am happy to talk about it to anyone who cares to ask ;-) MUCH LOVE x
@Martin G nahh.. that's not true bro... Pagey had an interest in Crowley for a while, then he got bored with it, in general terms the band couldn't be arsed with that spiritual shit.. they just got stoned and shagged lots of women ... and.. who wouldn't in their position? ;-) x
I'm a drummer. I listened and relistened, analyzed, and reanalyzed that drum intro to Rock n Roll when I was a teenager / younger adult, and the best I could come up with was one measure of some odd time signature right before the rest of the band comes in. It sounds like exactly 5 accented eighth notes before the band comes in. Little did I know! I played it with a band when I was in high school, and I was playing it the way it's heard on the album. They had a hard time following it. The guitarist said why don't you just do 8 accented eighth notes before we come in? I was so used to the way it was on the album, I didn't want to. They just watched when I was about to hit the crash cymbal so they would know when to come in. Because they couldn't count it!
James Taylor good comment. In truth audiences dont give the slightest of f*cks whether the intro is right or not... it took me years to figure out that its always best to figure out simple version of a song that all band members can play than mess about wasting time with intricate intros etc. x
@@jamestaylor1149 Hi, James. In the intro of Rock 'n Roll all you have to do is hear the first 3 hits (the snare-hh-hh) as "and 4 and " (the 6th,7th,8th beat) of an 8/8. Then the actual 1 starts and everything locks in easily. Try it.
Vice Squad ... so at what age is it considered rape when musicians fuck young teens and girls not even teens? Is Jimmy Page a rapist? What about David Bowie? Hmmmm. Why do I know anything about the type of deviant sexual intercourse musicians have with minors? The world many never know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a cherries vagina. Would you like to talk about it?
I gotta say I was skeptical when I first watched this but after a little research I agree. I think there are a three details though to point out that explain why the transition is so subtly tricky. 1.) The tempo increases throughout the entire song, 2.) The timing isn't strict here, either they're playing loosely and behind the beat or they shifted the tempo right at the transition and 3.) The absence of drums blurs the beat grid. Great vid and explanation!
Great to watch a technically skilled and theoretically trained musician in action. Great stuff.
I kinda want to see you explain something by meshuggah
Honestly, it's almost pure rhythm. Just a lot of polymeter and tough rhythms. Most college level percussionists can explain what's going on in a Meshuggah song (But perhaps not have the chops to actually play it.)
@@royalcat10 I mean, I can play meshuggah and I personally understand how most of it works, I just want to see more of it
It might happen once I get a 7 string :)
The song Combustion by Meshuggah actually has this same upbeat trickery in it that has always messed me up
@@ketsuppi400 ahah I was about to post about Combustion too. I know it begins on the upbeat but damn I still struggle to feel it naturally when I hear it!
This reminds of that extra beat at the beginning of "Sex on Fire" that a lot of people miss, causing the whole song to be off beat
funnyguy2019 But that's a little bit different. Sex on Fire starts with a pickup bar, but not on the upbeat. Another way to think about it is that it starts on the 4th downbeat of the first bar.
Dude u ever herd of pickup bars?
Gijs van Dam
The guitar riff of Sex On Fire starts on the upbeat, I think cause there's no drums initially people hear that first note as the 1 downbeat but it's the last eighth note of a silent bar.
I know what a pick up bar is, it's just that his talk about misleading rhythms reminded me of a video I saw abt two weeks ago:
ua-cam.com/video/slDKUaJFNfE/v-deo.html
In hindsight, it wasn't a direct correlation, but still pretty cool ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯
Yes! Or Mighty Mighty Bosstones’ “The impression that I get.”
You're an old soul Bro. Thank you
Hi Jake, I am a HUGE fan and this isn't by any means an "Actually" comment: just a small observation. I think the words you were looking for were "On-Beat" and "Off-Beat" instead of "Down-Beat" and "Up-Beat". Downbeats and upbeats are different things that you mentioned in the video. That could create some confusion! Nothing that affects your EXTREMELY good video!
Thanks so much for including a transcription of that crazy part. Really helped!
We need a full version of Syncopate Song, please
Santiago Boffo videotape by radiohead
Yes, PLEASE post "I Want to Syncopate"!
I want to syncopate
And also to copulate
I'd like to hear an analysis of Kirk Hammett's driver's education song, honestly. Lol
Ya, mon!
My favorite song and my favorite movie, all in one video! My heart ❤️😜
You lost me at 'what if i told you '
No Shit.
Mandella effect!!!!!
This is beyond outstanding. I ALWAYS wondered how this was played - you Frickin' nailed it!! KUDOS.
Great answer to that dang difficult part! You are appreciated!!
That 'waeoooo' at 5:57 got me dead XD
5:58 😂😂😂love the gnarled vocalized chord 😂😂
Messing with Zep, Jake?
You're aware this vid's going to get taken down in no time
Right?
I'm very scared of the copyright bots. Since it's all original music I think at worst they'll do revenue splitting and not just take the whole video down. The only actual clip from the song happens during my solo at the intro and i HEAVILY filtered it. Let's hope for the best...
I am reasonably sure this comes under "fair use" laws- You are clearly using the song in a completely different context, for a different purpose, and in very limited amounts. Ask a copyright lawyer, but I think your case may well be water tight.
@@deannilvalli6579 The problem is that neither the CR holders nor UA-cam care all that much about fair use.
Them Zeps owns them webs!
Well, in Wayne's World they had to edit out a freakin' one bar of the opening riff for the TV and home video release, because Zep's backlog management company filed a complaint, for a single bar, played as a cover and not as a sample, by a movie character, in a context where a joke should have been, with just a few strokes of the strings. Talk about being draconian with copyright laws when no copyright laws were actually infringed.
The beginning of Cliffs of Dover when the main riff kicks in still messes with my head, no matter how many times I listen to it.
I played in a high school band (long ago) and I remember we had some music that we had to learn how to count using the 1 e + a ... rhythm. We mastered the music after a lot of practice. We played the song in a concert even! I don’t remember the name of the piece but hearing you talk about counting out “Stairway to Heaven” reminded me of this hard lesson. Thank you for bringing back a great memory!
Hey, well done! I'm flattered you used my mixed-meter transcription :-) but that's still how I hear it. I have huge problems with unnecessarily complicated musical analysis (making the analysis more complex than the subject being analyzed), but I also have problems with oversimplifying (so the analysis doesn't articulate the sophistication of the music), such as hearing this passage strictly in 4/4. But I'm also coming to this music from a theory perspective. If thinking it in pure 4/4 makes it easier to perform, that's how it should be played! Again, very well done - I'll be watching more of your videos!
Wooohoo! I'm very relieved you didn't take it as an insult because that is exactly how I used to transcribe it for many years until I decided to look at it under the 4/4 lens. Your transcription was so nice and neat that I figured I'd just use it and credit you. Really this was just a fun exploration at the section, I honestly think both ways are completely legit since they both accurately reproduce the section. Also I thought it would be fun to make a video about :). Thanks for the comment!
Oh come on... how hard can it be to figure out how this part is written? Just count 4s throughout the song and be precise and careful and you have got it. Now playing that without getting confused WITH other musicians is a whole different story, but I think this part is simple to understand, mostly because its not very long and you dont have to count a long time in your head before the drum kicks in to give the right beat again towards the end before the e-guitar solo.
Pretty much what I was thinking :P
It's called chemistry as well as personal playing habits.....they weren't thinking about time signatures per say. I guess if you're covering another groups creativity then you need some kind of musical algebra equation to get it right but I will leave you with this.....
"I don't deal in technique, I deal in emotion" - Jimmy Page
Chaz Michael plus with how the song shifts speeds and how they recorded, I can guarantee that Stairway wasn't recorded to a Metronome or click track
Ryan Thompson Guitarist it speeds up
per se
_"I don't deal in technique, I deal in emotion"_
If that were in any way true Yoko Ono would be bigger than Led Zepellin. ALL music deals in emotion, but you need to be at least technically proficient if you want people to buy your music
NoneOfYour Beeswax nope, emotion is a broad spectrum not black and white. I think he's mostly saying he doesn't get butt hurt if he hits a sour note. Page has a very unique style very jumpy and erratic where as Yoko ono is full of shit. I imagine he got bored of trying to run perfect solos and used that saying as his rebuttal either way my point that they probably didn't focus on the technicality of time signatures as much as the way it sounded stands.
Another great example is the beginning of The Kinks, You Really Got Me! you can clearly hear the transition from a downbeat to an upbeat. I always wondered how the song seemed to transform timing without transforming timing. Thanks for the education.
Todd Haugen Highway to Hell is another good example.
Excellent video. A clear and concise way to explain the misunderstood passage. A similar situation happens a couple of times in The Who's "Who Are You", when the huge band hits at 2:56 occur on the 2nd beat of the measure, but blurred perspective gives the impression that they're on the "1" beat. Common mistake.
I realize that i always played it well by couting 4+3 with an anacrusis in the beginning !
To be honest it's always been the poorly executed solos that have grated on my ears. The song is so goddamned iconic even poor Jimmy sounded wrong playing it live. He shifted the position of the first down run and while still elegant, it was kind of jarring.
For me, there are some things which are just etched in stone and are perfect and can never be replicated. Any band that undertakes this will inevitably be compared unfavorably. You *have* to make it your own, or suffer the indignation of failure.
As a photographer, it would be like trying to recapture Marilyn Monroe's iconic flying dress shot. It's a moment etched in stone. No woman could evoke the same expression and beauty, have the dress fly in that perfect way, and be captured from that perfect angle and lighting the way she was at that moment. I mean... it's... *possible*... but damn. It's really asking for an implausible level of excellence. Anyway, just my $3.
@Starhippo Hippo If the timing on the first down run in these two versions sounds the same to you, I don't know what to tell you.
ua-cam.com/video/UqqKKa9AJK4/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/D9ioyEvdggk/v-deo.html
@@darioinfini you're absolutely correct here. If someone says that these sound the same then they clearly don't understand syncopated rhythm.
The first link sounds like he doesn't really hear the Drummer and he's going off of his own rhythm inside of his head which isn't always following the timing of the song that the Drummer is trying his best to stay in sync with.
And the second link is obviously the studio version that has a professional engineer that's quanatized the instruments, within the rhythm of the song, within a mastered mix of the song in its entirety.
The first link is hard for a Black man like myself to listen to comfortably; and I'm a musician. And have been since I was very young (I'm 53 now).
Rhythm is something that has been programmed into my DNA. And I take no credit for it, it's a gift from GOD.
But these are clearly different even though they are the same song.
It's comparable to a vocalist being autotuned in the studio and then being expected to perform live without the autotuning. Your ears immediately pick up on it. Even if they can get pretty close to the recorded version. It's just not the same.
Thanks for the links.
You've effectively proved your case counselor.
(Gavel slams!! Case dismissed😏)
@@redbrown7355 Haha thanks man. I learned to play that solo when I was 13 and I'm just slightly older than you. Maybe its just us old timers that can hear it LOL.
@@darioinfini
Yeah brotha you may be right😂😂😂
However, I truly appreciated how you laid out your case because as I stated in my comments, I am an Ol' School Black man that didn't grow up listening to this genre of music necessarily. Even though I know the song somewhat ( I mean who doesn't right).
But not well enough to debate it's content with someone that grew up listening to what we now call "Classic Rock".
So bringing it like you did allowed me to get into the debate, sort of like a Judge listening to the evidence being presented in a court of law (I may have missed my calling, LOL!!)
But It is absolutely undeniable evidence my friend!!
In my opinion of course. Others may disagree but I don't see how.
Whole other can of worms , Page did not try to play it like the record , and is great at improvising
The riff had stops in it and marched along
Page was great in his day at using relative diminished with melodic minor , Dickey Betts also approached music this way
The Rain Song is great Dancing days , the application of theory is obvious
5:57: "bwaaaaww"
Your channel is so great! My band covered this song some 20 years ago, and we totally fudged that part.
Worth watching all the way through.... you dialed it in.
It's trickier than that! If you align this section with the click in your DAW, you might be surprised even more!))
" ...And then we have
T E H M Y S T E R Y
M E A A A S U R E"
That's a throwback to the video that inspired this one!
@@SignalsMusicStudio yep.
I'm the OG fan of this channel.
@@MrMetalhorse Since day one!
damn i just watched about 10 covers from both professionals and amateurs and not a single one played it correctly! Thats actually crazy
That's cool, cause how you just explained the bridge is how I've always felt it, and I constantly worried that I was feeling it wrong. Thank you for confirming my original beliefs.
I came here for the knowledge, I stayed for the skits. Honestly, fantastic video. #MindBlown
The into to “too much time on my hands” by Styx is the same concept
My official tab book tells me: “your stairway lies on the whispering wind”, D major chord, 9/8, 4/4, 3/4, 4/4, 5/4, 4/4, 7/8, 4/4, 4/4, guitar solo.
Edit: also, they’re triplets, the 3 chords in a row, it’s triplet grouping not straight 16th notes.
yeah... cuz that's so much easier... 🙄
That’s not what it sounds like at considering the drummer plays the bass drum as sixteenths on the parts yours notates as triplets. If you listen close enough you can tell they are sixteenth notes. Additionally, the time signature changes make no sense at all considering they all are equivalent to 4/4 meter when it’s all set and done.
Kevin Lee when the tab book has bass and drum score it’s pretty legit. It’s not transcribed by Jimmy but it’s a good book and they’re triplets.
And a 1 and a 1 and 1234?
This video's explanation is accurate and true. There are no triplets- just the exact 16th note rhythms notated-no odd times- whatever is in some tab book is wrong.
This video is awesome. Everything here is 100% correct and it’s a very cool analysis of a pretty often over looked facet of a popular, albeit overplayed, modern pop classic.
What’s not awesome is the perception (in the comments) that “feeling something out” is necessarily a bad thing when it comes to music. If the part consistently hits with a band and a player doesn’t have a theoretical understanding of it, (perhaps you’re adding an eighth note that isn’t on the record and the group is accommodating) then that is okay. In a live performance context as long as there’s not a noticeable tear or the difference is harmful to the performers, then play it in whatever way accomplishes the a good take.
TL;DR this playa isn’t tryna shit on you if you don’t syncopate this part. He’s just sayin “hey most people play it like this, but on the record it’s actually this. Innit that weird?”
6:42 -- probably not Page who played the trick, but rather John Paul Jones. He was the most musically knowledgeable cat in the band. Before Zep he was an arranger and studio musician. Oh and he also played all the keyboard parts in the later Zep recordings.....
This has always driven me crazy. Thanks for helping me subvert the downbeat paradigm, you shifty little syncopater you!!! I LOVED this.