asif naseri In my humble opinion it is because in today's bombastic society everything has to look like a gaudy transformer to be appreciated. Personally, I prefer my Porsches much like my wine and Scotch, simple and understated, yet smooth like silk.
Bought a Cayman R today. Test drive was very good. Best handling car iv had. Id say its practical with good cabin space and decent boot space. Yeh ok it dosnt go as fast in a straight line as id want it to but this car does the handling part so well that its a small price to pay for not getting to 100 a second faster than id want. If i want 1/4 miles then id put my money in a turbo car. But im after a n/a engine. same goes for an exige, ppl buy this for its A to B ability not for its straight line speed. When i can afford a 911 gt3 then ill be 100% satisfied. but for now my Cayman R is the best car i can afford right now and im happy with that.
+Jez3134 Tbh mate I sold it for an M4. The car was nice but deep down I wanted more power than 330 bhp as the car could easily handle more. And it's too expensive to get more bhp out of the none turbo porsche engines. build quality was superb and the auto box was great. I just love my speed too so I went turbo rwd.
+Jez3134 if u love speed and acceleration then u will want a 911 or gt4 or something with 400bhp minimum. Iv bought my m4 and still remapped it to 500bhp. anymore now and it's not usable on UK roads. good luck finding ur next car mate.
Long time fan of TST, but just wanted to point out a few things being a Cayman S owner and doing a lot of research on this and the Cayman R when I bought my S 4 years ago. Another reason for the lower weight in the R, is in the doors. I think each door is 30 lbs lighter than the S. The reason the braking may feel more pronounced in the 1M is due to the extra weight of the engine in the front, while the weight of the Cayman, being mid-engine, is more distributed between the axles, therefore the sensation is less pronounced. Finally, he said there is a 300 lb difference in weight. The 1M is around 3330 curb, while this R spec is around 2900 lbs. That is actually a 400 lb diff. Without the AC, radio, and optional carbon fiber seats, the diff would be 500 lbs, albeit far less comfortable and for too much money. That being said, I think this is the best modern BMW on the road today.
I'm not a racing driver, but I have lots of track time, a NASA Competition license, and have attended no fewer than a dozen racing schools. I've reviewed literally hundreds of cars in the last 6 years.Though a track is out of our budget most of the time, I know that road we were testing the cars on, and i test nearly every car I review on that road at least once. I'm more than qualified to evaluate the feel of steering inputs, power, and brakes on a public road.
The 1 series (especially the M) is the ultimate street car in its time. Small, simple, powerful, torque-y, nimble, "light" enough, not too attention grabbing, nice hydraulic steering, and sounds great. It's pretty much the e30 of its time.
Going back and watching some older videos of yours. These were good. I appreciate they were more scripted, time consuming and less profitable but they are good.
The "R" on the Porsche stands for "Race" and a racecar is stiff and not so comfortable and also, the breaks on the Cayman are actually really good. its just that Porsche gave the break assist less power because your suppose to have better sensitivity on hard break- ins. and once again, the power comes on later because track car.. its suppose to be like that! this guy is talking abou buying a Z06 insted of a Cayman R.. Are you serious? for track driving there is not many cars that beat the Cayman R and GT4 and i can quite easily keep up with Z06 in my 131 hp miata on a track...
Also Matt is driving on a S CA canyon with high speed curves. In N CA, the canyons are 2-3 gear roads. Your Miata and my Boxster S would be THE most fun by far.
+TheRazerHD That is the whole problem. The R is meant to be the most insane for track driving while the M1 isn't. A regular S would of done better where they were driving.
Actually, Matt has a point about how uncomfortable the Cayman is, but I think he missed exactly why. The problem isn't actually the ride, it's the seats, and possibly a quick fix-able design flaw. I don't blame him for not understanding why, it took me a few weeks of ownership to put my finger on it. For all of their expertise in many other areas, Porsche seats have a fundamental design flaw that causes that back soreness Matt complained about. They are simply ergonomically all wrong, with a lower cushion that can't be positioned properly to allow you to be all the way back against the back rest for support, and still reach the pedals comfortably over the front edge of the seats. This forces a slouched seating position that can be extremely uncomfortable on long trips. I actually bruised my ribs the first time I took a road trip in mine. The only way to correct this is to raise the seat up off the floor, as then you can adjust the angle, but this doesn't work in reality because then you can't get in and out of the car without hitting your head on the door frame. I'm actually seriously considering replacing the seats in mine, despite the cost of doing so. There is also a design flaw with the Cayman that can make the ride seem far more punishing than it is, but is a 30 minute /$0 fix. It's a rubber suspended weight in the reach hatch lid that isn't stiff enough and bounces around causing a loud booming sound that makes it feel like the suspension is way too stiff. Fixing it takes only a few minutes, and drastically changes the feel of the car. The Cayman R may still be slightly too stiff, but not as bad as Matt describes. Otherwise this is a pretty good comparo, but I do disagree somewhat. I just went from a 2012 135i with all of the 1M suspension parts, wider wheels and tires, Ohlins coilovers and an aggressive alignment to a stock 07 Cayman S, and the Cayman is unquestionably a better driver's car. It just handles better, sounds better, and feels better, even if it is down on torque in the low end. I guarantee it will smoke the BMW on a track or back road though. Practicality isn't bad either, with the exception of the back seats, and nobody in their right mind wants to sit in the back of a 1 series anyway. I'm only 6', and my head hits the ceiling if I try to sit back there. Overall, the 1 series is a better do-it-all car, and probably a bit quicker in a drag race, but the Cayman is the much better car for pure fun. Originally I got the 1 series as it was my only car. Now I am going with a older SUV for when I need practical, and the Cayman for when I want to have fun. The two of them cost far less than a 1 M by the way, and give me the tools to handle anything I need out of a car.
@@TheAlanFish I own the sister car to the Cayman R - the 987.2 Spyder with the GT2 CF sport bucket seats and it is way more comfortable than the comfort seats in my previous 987.1 Boxster S. You are correct, the comfort seats have a design flaw - I used to get back aches in my Boxster S but I don't with the supposedly more uncomfortable GT2 sport bucket seats.
Just like Subestimado said, above, and like I responded to him, since you own a Cayman R, you have a dog in the fight, so I can't take your arguments seriously. I'm glad you enjoy your car, and even though I think the Cayman R is overpriced, if you enjoy it, then it's money well spent. I just feel that since $80k is too much money to spend on that level of performance for just a "weekend/track" car, the 1M makes the better all-around package, especially since it's $27k cheaper (as tested).
Cmon, the guy is American. Soft seats, soft suspension and low end torque is the order of the day for those guys. It's just a market and mindset difference. A sportscar in the US is something totally different to what we drive here in Europe.
Soft seats, but they still hold you in place, and more usable power. Its a road car more than track car. For 80k however, you can get a better track car than a cayman r.
Great review! ANd I can see why you like the BMW better, but you forgot to mention that the Cayman is beautiful while the BMW is um, interesting looking.
Matt, nice rev match down shift at 1:44. you've got some skills ;^) I appreciate your insight. You have obviously driven so many great cars and have a lot to compare cars with.That gives ya credit and why I watch your vids. Most people will never have the opportunities to really experience the caliber of cars you have and therefore have narrow opinions. thanks for replying to your comments,the good,bad,and the ugly. you've got way more patience then me, hilarious.
Yes, by a ton. My C5 with the coilovers doesn't just handle better than stock, it also rides smoother than stock. Furthermore, I don't daily drive the Corvette, I daily drive the Raptor, the Corvette is just for weekends.
That's the whole point, that it doesn't match the mood. You just don't see the irony in it. Generic rock music is the cheesiest of the cheese when it comes to car videos. We like this.
Matt, kuddos for being one of the first reviewers to mention how underrated the N54 is. Tuned with stock internals, its even more shocking and capable! Practical advice, thank you!
I don't think I made any mistakes. I'm not a "porsche fan" or a "bmw fan." I have no dog in the fight, I don't care which car is better. I'm given two cars, and choose one. I brought a rich guy who had the choice of either car, and asked his opinion too. The entire TST crew agreed that, for the money spent, the 1M is the better car. That's all. You have the right to disagree, but at the end of the day, this is an opinion piece, so there are no right answers, no wrong ones, and no mistakes.
I made a video of the GT3 swapped Cayman back in 2007, you might still be able to find it somewhere. The 1M handles better than the ZL1, but it also weighs several hundred pounds less and has a shorter wheelbase.
Excited as always to see a new TST video . Are you guys going back to a weekly release schedule now that tuned is in off season ? Anyways awesome video .
Of the people I know who own 1M's (there are 3 of them) and Cayman's (there are 4 of them), all 7 have other, more expensive cars in their collections and didn't buy these "entry level" models because they couldn't or didn't want to spend more money on a 911 or M3. They just liked how they drove, and that was it.
Could be, but the discs and calipers are also bigger in the 1M, so a simple pad swap will give them better longevity for the track, whereas to improve braking in the Cayman you'd have to buy all new hardware.
I haven't driven the 2012 Cayman R with PDK for more than a years already and still enjoy driving it daily. It is a VERY comfortable car. I drove to Las Vegas from Los Angeles for 4 times and I have no complain at all.
Great to see the smoking tire upload man. I think things are starting to settle into a groove on your vids. A vid on one of those GT3 Caymans would be tremendous ... I am thinking of doing on down the road. Cayman Gt3 baby ...
I definitely get your point and I think a race track comparison is always fun and interesting to watch (Especially with this type of cars); but the thing is, unless there's a race track from your home to wherever you work/gym/etc is, it really doesn't matter if one car does a faster lap time than the other. By the end of the day I want a reliable, fast and good looking car for the city's roads.
That's true as well,to shave weight on a modern car is a lot of work, you have to remove a lot of interior pieces, ac, radio, extra seats, ect. And it will never be as light as an older car.
Good review. I agree with the premise that the Cayman R is a bit too expensive for the performance delivered vs the competition. But the Cayman R is a car consumers who put handling and steering ahead of statistical performance would chose. Still: expensive, no question. The BMW 1M, I have not driven. But I do own a hatchback 118i. That car (very underpowered) has surprisingly good handling. So a car that exceed expectations. I expect the BMW will depreciate faster. My choice? Cayman R.
I agree on that point. E30 M3 is a legend. I had a 1984 318i...then a 1998 E36 M3 supercharged by Dinan eventually. I always loved the look of the 911, but not the way they drove. It was the Cayman that won me over. 2 seats. Engine in the middle. If I blind-folded you and had you drive a 2.7 Cayman and an E36 M3 back to back, you would be surprised how similar they are. Both very neutral. Similar performance.
Why would you take the turbo out of the 1M? It comes that way. BMW chose to sell their car with a turbocharged engine, and Porsche did not. The two cars are still competitors, and when comparing features, I have every right to compare one engine to another even if one has a turbo and one does not.
Took a test drive in the Cayman yesterday. Was very disappointed at the lack of acceleration, this seems to explain the issue, I didn't get into higher RPM's where the power band lies. Probably not a car I would enjoy as a daily driver, too bad I really like the looks of the Cayman.
You nailed it. I track my car and love performance cars, but daily driving is a huge factor and it would be 1M all the way for me. If I want a dedicated track car, no chance in hell I am going to buy either. Anyone who thinks they built the Cayman R for primary use on the track is fooling themselves. That base price slots right in between cayman and base 911....HMMMM
To throw in some controversy(sorry this confuses so I have to), 2009 Motor trend best driver's car was won by the Cayman S. In 2011, the Cayman R finished fourth while the 1M finished second last. Now, I do believe that something like TheSmokingTire has lower chances of being rigged than Motortrend. But what their racing driver Randy Pobst says usually makes sense. He said he hated the 1M and that it was reluctant to turn. On the Cayman R, he criticised the tires and of course brakes.
Calling a coupe a "sports car" is a joke and using "practical" and sports car" in the same sentence is beyond dumb. Also, did y'all see how the M1 was all heeled over in the fast sweepers. Sorry, I will stick with my Cayman S.
"If you want torque down low there are turbo cars for that." The 1M is a Turbo car, that's my entire point. The powerband doesn't just start lower, it's much wider, 4800 RPM worth of power vs. 2500 RPM worth of power in the Cayman.
A stiff car is a stiff car. I drive plenty of different cars, some are painful and some are not. Not that it's relevant to this comment, but I've been dieting and working out for the last 3 months since we stopped shooting and lost 25 lbs, on my way to 50. But at the end of the day, I've had two back surgeries (recovering from them is how I got fat again in the first place), and I'm sensitive to very stiff cars, in shape or not.
Matt I like that you're a bigger guy. Just having one passenger in my car is certainly noticeable, and the domain of peoples weights can be as much as to rival or surpass the weight of some people. It is reassuring that the assessment of the cars is verified by someone who feels the car under this barely significant extra measure of scrutiny.
On your request, I watched Chris's video, which, while quite good, came to very similar conclusions that we did about the power of the 1M being more accessible, and the Cayman R having great balance, inputs, and feel. But without acceleration data, lap times, and "hard facts," neither my review nor Chris's is objective in any way, they are both 100% subjective. But just because Chris didn't actually declare a winner doesn't mean we don't have the right to say one is better than the other.
love the show and the podcast. I stumbled on it right around the time you launched the first episode and must say it's the most entertaining podcast! keep up the good work! waaaay better than slightly less meh....and there's a lot of meh out there.
So you're saying you can't compare the Ferrari 458 to the McLaren MP4-12C because one of them uses turbochargers, even though they are direct competitors? You can't compare a Porsche Turbo and a Lamborghini Gallardo? Can't compare a DBS to an M6 or SL63 because one uses forced induction and the other doesn't? That's a silly argument.
Another awesome video. I own a 3-series but never liked the 1. To me it looks homely, I don't know... really don't like the side view. But, you can't see the outside from the cockpit, and EVERYONE loves how the car drives, especially the ///M. Can't fault that. :-]
but, at the end of the day, the performance numbers are so similar that it would require testing or a heads up race to tell the difference. From the driver's seat, the 1M just feels faster because of the extra torque and wider power band, and that's what I think most drivers will be focusing on: more usable power. The fact that Porsche charges $27k more for the Cayman than BMW charges for the 1M is why I'd rather have the 1M.
well you say that matt, but in the UK, there was only like 500 shipped there i believe. And it is now discounted so therefore, isnt it kinda considered as a limited production run?
I drove a buddies BMW 135i 300 hp version on those same roads in your vid. We swapped cars for a quick canyon run to Leo Carillo beach.Torque was very impressive in that one, handling a little sloppy, but I am sure the 1M is much better in every way to then stock 135i. BMW makes great cars, no doubt. I am one those guys that gets out of his car and has to look back every time to admire its great "style". You know, some guys just prefer blondes with curves, that all ;^) keep up the great work!
His points on 1M are valid. For me part of owning a sports car is the emotional appeal, 1M is just too practical for that. The Cayman you feel like you are in a sports car when sat down low, there's more mechanical noise coming from mid engine behind you, it corners flatter and you don't have to fight the mass as much. The 1M still looks a bit downsyndrome from Bangle design, and this is coming from ex-owner of 135i.
997 Carrera 4S , Boxster S 3.4 liter, Cayenne S (for the wifey). Hope to get an earlier 911 soon. I would like to add a classic to the garage ;^) HS is where the car dreams start, Plan ahead, work hard and stay focused and in time you can get one, or more, too ;^)
My bolt on(just intake and exhaust mods, no tune) v6 accord dynoed 269 whp at the local performance shop's dyno, a Cayman R was there and dynoed 262 whp.
What I mean is that the Porsche feels like the sum of its parts whereas the BMW feels like more than the sum of its parts. I don't remember saying I "expect" the Porsche to be faster, I did say that I wished it was faster though.
I appreciate ur videos. It makes sense to the majority of the buyers b/c they will be mainly driving it on public roads. However, we're comparing top performance cars from two big manufacturers, these should be done on the track. We're not comparing a basic 1 series to a Boxster. I track my STi and M3 and u definitely would have a different review on them when u rate them on the track. In the end,all I'm saying is that performance cars should be reviewed on the track to tell the real story.
you negated your own argument. You yourself use the word "everyday cars." And uncomfortable seats and an overly stiff suspension are two things I definitely don't want in an everyday car, especially when the competition doesn't have such issues.
ahem, ceramic discs themselves do not make a car stop faster.... unless the ceramic disks are bigger than the steel discs, in which case the physics case for the car stopping faster is 100% in line.
because $80,000 buys you a 500 horsepower Z06. It buys you a 450 horsepower RS5, a 662 horsepower GT500 (and enough left over for brake and suspension upgrades). For $80,000, 330 horsepower is not enough.
Why do people hate on the 1 series looks? I personally love them, ESPECIALLY the 1M
asif naseri In my humble opinion it is because in today's bombastic society everything has to look like a gaudy transformer to be appreciated. Personally, I prefer my Porsches much like my wine and Scotch, simple and understated, yet smooth like silk.
Agreed, best looking M since the clown shoe M Coupe!
Because its fugly and looks like a 80's Toyota tercel.
I think it should've been a more low slung BMW design in my honest opinion. It looks to understated for a sport coupe.
I too love the look of the 1M 👌🏻😍😍
Bought a Cayman R today. Test drive was very good. Best handling car iv had. Id say its practical with good cabin space and decent boot space. Yeh ok it dosnt go as fast in a straight line as id want it to but this car does the handling part so well that its a small price to pay for not getting to 100 a second faster than id want. If i want 1/4 miles then id put my money in a turbo car. But im after a n/a engine. same goes for an exige, ppl buy this for its A to B ability not for its straight line speed. When i can afford a 911 gt3 then ill be 100% satisfied. but for now my Cayman R is the best car i can afford right now and im happy with that.
markmcc21 Now I would like to see what the new GT4 Cayman can do.
+markmcc21 How has the Cayman been like to live with now you've had it 6 months?
+Jez3134 Tbh mate I sold it for an M4. The car was nice but deep down I wanted more power than 330 bhp as the car could easily handle more. And it's too expensive to get more bhp out of the none turbo porsche engines. build quality was superb and the auto box was great. I just love my speed too so I went turbo rwd.
markmcc21 Ohh, that was my worst fear about buying one, getting bored of the power. It seems like a lot of owners feel the same way :(
+Jez3134 if u love speed and acceleration then u will want a 911 or gt4 or something with 400bhp minimum. Iv bought my m4 and still remapped it to 500bhp. anymore now and it's not usable on UK roads. good luck finding ur next car mate.
Long time fan of TST, but just wanted to point out a few things being a Cayman S owner and doing a lot of research on this and the Cayman R when I bought my S 4 years ago. Another reason for the lower weight in the R, is in the doors. I think each door is 30 lbs lighter than the S. The reason the braking may feel more pronounced in the 1M is due to the extra weight of the engine in the front, while the weight of the Cayman, being mid-engine, is more distributed between the axles, therefore the sensation is less pronounced. Finally, he said there is a 300 lb difference in weight. The 1M is around 3330 curb, while this R spec is around 2900 lbs. That is actually a 400 lb diff. Without the AC, radio, and optional carbon fiber seats, the diff would be 500 lbs, albeit far less comfortable and for too much money. That being said, I think this is the best modern BMW on the road today.
I'm not a racing driver, but I have lots of track time, a NASA Competition license, and have attended no fewer than a dozen racing schools. I've reviewed literally hundreds of cars in the last 6 years.Though a track is out of our budget most of the time, I know that road we were testing the cars on, and i test nearly every car I review on that road at least once. I'm more than qualified to evaluate the feel of steering inputs, power, and brakes on a public road.
The 1 series (especially the M) is the ultimate street car in its time. Small, simple, powerful, torque-y, nimble, "light" enough, not too attention grabbing, nice hydraulic steering, and sounds great. It's pretty much the e30 of its time.
Going back and watching some older videos of yours. These were good. I appreciate they were more scripted, time consuming and less profitable but they are good.
this is when the microphone quality for engine noise was at its finest. bring it back lol
Years of practice, amassing knowledge and driving skill, the right personality, and meeting the right people to make it all happen.
The "R" on the Porsche stands for "Race" and a racecar is stiff and not so comfortable and also, the breaks on the Cayman are actually really good. its just that Porsche gave the break assist less power because your suppose to have better sensitivity on hard break- ins. and once again, the power comes on later because track car.. its suppose to be like that! this guy is talking abou buying a Z06 insted of a Cayman R.. Are you serious? for track driving there is not many cars that beat the Cayman R and GT4 and i can quite easily keep up with Z06 in my 131 hp miata on a track...
Also Matt is driving on a S CA canyon with high speed curves. In N CA, the canyons are 2-3 gear roads. Your Miata and my Boxster S would be THE most fun by far.
+TheRazerHD That is the whole problem. The R is meant to be the most insane for track driving while the M1 isn't. A regular S would of done better where they were driving.
Actually, Matt has a point about how uncomfortable the Cayman is, but I think he missed exactly why. The problem isn't actually the ride, it's the seats, and possibly a quick fix-able design flaw. I don't blame him for not understanding why, it took me a few weeks of ownership to put my finger on it.
For all of their expertise in many other areas, Porsche seats have a fundamental design flaw that causes that back soreness Matt complained about. They are simply ergonomically all wrong, with a lower cushion that can't be positioned properly to allow you to be all the way back against the back rest for support, and still reach the pedals comfortably over the front edge of the seats. This forces a slouched seating position that can be extremely uncomfortable on long trips. I actually bruised my ribs the first time I took a road trip in mine. The only way to correct this is to raise the seat up off the floor, as then you can adjust the angle, but this doesn't work in reality because then you can't get in and out of the car without hitting your head on the door frame. I'm actually seriously considering replacing the seats in mine, despite the cost of doing so.
There is also a design flaw with the Cayman that can make the ride seem far more punishing than it is, but is a 30 minute /$0 fix. It's a rubber suspended weight in the reach hatch lid that isn't stiff enough and bounces around causing a loud booming sound that makes it feel like the suspension is way too stiff. Fixing it takes only a few minutes, and drastically changes the feel of the car. The Cayman R may still be slightly too stiff, but not as bad as Matt describes.
Otherwise this is a pretty good comparo, but I do disagree somewhat. I just went from a 2012 135i with all of the 1M suspension parts, wider wheels and tires, Ohlins coilovers and an aggressive alignment to a stock 07 Cayman S, and the Cayman is unquestionably a better driver's car. It just handles better, sounds better, and feels better, even if it is down on torque in the low end. I guarantee it will smoke the BMW on a track or back road though. Practicality isn't bad either, with the exception of the back seats, and nobody in their right mind wants to sit in the back of a 1 series anyway. I'm only 6', and my head hits the ceiling if I try to sit back there.
Overall, the 1 series is a better do-it-all car, and probably a bit quicker in a drag race, but the Cayman is the much better car for pure fun. Originally I got the 1 series as it was my only car. Now I am going with a older SUV for when I need practical, and the Cayman for when I want to have fun. The two of them cost far less than a 1 M by the way, and give me the tools to handle anything I need out of a car.
@@TheAlanFish I own the sister car to the Cayman R - the 987.2 Spyder with the GT2 CF sport bucket seats and it is way more comfortable than the comfort seats in my previous 987.1 Boxster S. You are correct, the comfort seats have a design flaw - I used to get back aches in my Boxster S but I don't with the supposedly more uncomfortable GT2 sport bucket seats.
Matt when you are driving the caymen are your sunglass lenses black or silver? Thanks
Just like Subestimado said, above, and like I responded to him, since you own a Cayman R, you have a dog in the fight, so I can't take your arguments seriously. I'm glad you enjoy your car, and even though I think the Cayman R is overpriced, if you enjoy it, then it's money well spent. I just feel that since $80k is too much money to spend on that level of performance for just a "weekend/track" car, the 1M makes the better all-around package, especially since it's $27k cheaper (as tested).
Cmon, the guy is American. Soft seats, soft suspension and low end torque is the order of the day for those guys. It's just a market and mindset difference. A sportscar in the US is something totally different to what we drive here in Europe.
Except that the BMW doesn't have the same problems and I'm pretty sure that it, too, is European.
You aren't American so you can't speak for us, speak for yourself and what you know
Soft seats, but they still hold you in place, and more usable power. Its a road car more than track car. For 80k however, you can get a better track car than a cayman r.
Great review! ANd I can see why you like the BMW better, but you forgot to mention that the Cayman is beautiful while the BMW is um, interesting looking.
These are the best car review videos on youtube, period!
Same crew, yes. Tuned is for modified vehicles, and TST is our show for stock vehicles.
Matt, nice rev match down shift at 1:44. you've got some skills ;^) I appreciate your insight. You have obviously driven so many great cars and have a lot to compare cars with.That gives ya credit and why I watch your vids. Most people will never have the opportunities to really experience the caliber of cars you have and therefore have narrow opinions. thanks for replying to your comments,the good,bad,and the ugly. you've got way more patience then me, hilarious.
if you were looking to buy a bmw would u recommend this or the new m2? also would a well depreciated e92 m3 be a better buy?
Cayman all the way
Good to see a fresh upload from TST. Keep 'em comming Matt!
Yes, by a ton. My C5 with the coilovers doesn't just handle better than stock, it also rides smoother than stock. Furthermore, I don't daily drive the Corvette, I daily drive the Raptor, the Corvette is just for weekends.
That's the whole point, that it doesn't match the mood. You just don't see the irony in it. Generic rock music is the cheesiest of the cheese when it comes to car videos. We like this.
i love getting baked to these car videos. the car car show was bangin. dont take so long next time.
Matt, kuddos for being one of the first reviewers to mention how underrated the N54 is. Tuned with stock internals, its even more shocking and capable! Practical advice, thank you!
I don't think I made any mistakes. I'm not a "porsche fan" or a "bmw fan." I have no dog in the fight, I don't care which car is better. I'm given two cars, and choose one. I brought a rich guy who had the choice of either car, and asked his opinion too. The entire TST crew agreed that, for the money spent, the 1M is the better car. That's all. You have the right to disagree, but at the end of the day, this is an opinion piece, so there are no right answers, no wrong ones, and no mistakes.
good advice here. I'm a fan of Bondurant over Skip Barber, just because of the quality of their cars.
I made a video of the GT3 swapped Cayman back in 2007, you might still be able to find it somewhere. The 1M handles better than the ZL1, but it also weighs several hundred pounds less and has a shorter wheelbase.
I got a question, are you guys driving on a private road? I noticed the lack of plates.
Excited as always to see a new TST video . Are you guys going back to a weekly release schedule now that tuned is in off season ? Anyways awesome video .
Of the people I know who own 1M's (there are 3 of them) and Cayman's (there are 4 of them), all 7 have other, more expensive cars in their collections and didn't buy these "entry level" models because they couldn't or didn't want to spend more money on a 911 or M3. They just liked how they drove, and that was it.
Could be, but the discs and calipers are also bigger in the 1M, so a simple pad swap will give them better longevity for the track, whereas to improve braking in the Cayman you'd have to buy all new hardware.
I haven't driven the 2012 Cayman R with PDK for more than a years already and still enjoy driving it daily. It is a VERY comfortable car. I drove to Las Vegas from Los Angeles for 4 times and I have no complain at all.
Great to see the smoking tire upload man. I think things are starting to settle into a groove on your vids. A vid on one of those GT3 Caymans would be tremendous ... I am thinking of doing on down the road. Cayman Gt3 baby ...
I definitely get your point and I think a race track comparison is always fun and interesting to watch (Especially with this type of cars); but the thing is, unless there's a race track from your home to wherever you work/gym/etc is, it really doesn't matter if one car does a faster lap time than the other. By the end of the day I want a reliable, fast and good looking car for the city's roads.
See if you can't get some seat time in the 1M. It's amazing how quickly you can overlook styling from behind the wheel.
what is the difference between smoking tired and drive's tuned? is it not pretty much the same people that in involved in both of it?
that would be such a winner, but they will never do it because people would stop buying 911's. The GT3 swapped Cayman I drove was INCREDIBLE.
What state did u taste these cars at? I like the scenery
That's true as well,to shave weight on a modern car is a lot of work, you have to remove a lot of interior pieces, ac, radio, extra seats, ect. And it will never be as light as an older car.
Good review. I agree with the premise that the Cayman R is a bit too expensive for the performance delivered vs the competition. But the Cayman R is a car consumers who put handling and steering ahead of statistical performance would chose. Still: expensive, no question.
The BMW 1M, I have not driven. But I do own a hatchback 118i. That car (very underpowered) has surprisingly good handling. So a car that exceed expectations.
I expect the BMW will depreciate faster.
My choice? Cayman R.
Yes, but only in the US. 1500 units total shipped here. In europe it's not limited.
I love this intro theme, please don't change it.
i'm sure you guys are busy as hell with DRIVE so thanks a lot for this upload
I agree on that point. E30 M3 is a legend. I had a 1984 318i...then a 1998 E36 M3 supercharged by Dinan eventually. I always loved the look of the 911, but not the way they drove. It was the Cayman that won me over. 2 seats. Engine in the middle. If I blind-folded you and had you drive a 2.7 Cayman and an E36 M3 back to back, you would be surprised how similar they are. Both very neutral. Similar performance.
Why would you take the turbo out of the 1M? It comes that way. BMW chose to sell their car with a turbocharged engine, and Porsche did not. The two cars are still competitors, and when comparing features, I have every right to compare one engine to another even if one has a turbo and one does not.
Man.... They are both such great cars... Definitely very special
Took a test drive in the Cayman yesterday. Was very disappointed at the lack of acceleration, this seems to explain the issue, I didn't get into higher RPM's where the power band lies. Probably not a car I would enjoy as a daily driver, too bad I really like the looks of the Cayman.
Big difference between the Cayman and the Cayman R.
Awesome vid Matt & Crew, keep up the great work!
But you drive a C5 with a racing seat/harness and coilovers. Is a stock Cayman R actually stiffer than your tuned C5?
Just wondering
Does the same crew produce these videos as Matt Farah's Tuned on the Drive channel?
You nailed it. I track my car and love performance cars, but daily driving is a huge factor and it would be 1M all the way for me. If I want a dedicated track car, no chance in hell I am going to buy either. Anyone who thinks they built the Cayman R for primary use on the track is fooling themselves. That base price slots right in between cayman and base 911....HMMMM
Amazing video as always.
I really enjoy your vids.
fair enough. glad you like your car.
What road is that? Looks fun
To throw in some controversy(sorry this confuses so I have to), 2009 Motor trend best driver's car was won by the Cayman S. In 2011, the Cayman R finished fourth while the 1M finished second last. Now, I do believe that something like TheSmokingTire has lower chances of being rigged than Motortrend. But what their racing driver Randy Pobst says usually makes sense. He said he hated the 1M and that it was reluctant to turn. On the Cayman R, he criticised the tires and of course brakes.
Calling a coupe a "sports car" is a joke and using "practical" and sports car" in the same sentence is beyond dumb.
Also, did y'all see how the M1 was all heeled over in the fast sweepers.
Sorry, I will stick with my Cayman S.
"If you want torque down low there are turbo cars for that." The 1M is a Turbo car, that's my entire point. The powerband doesn't just start lower, it's much wider, 4800 RPM worth of power vs. 2500 RPM worth of power in the Cayman.
You need your own tv show Matt, and get paid a ton for doing it. You rock man
A stiff car is a stiff car. I drive plenty of different cars, some are painful and some are not. Not that it's relevant to this comment, but I've been dieting and working out for the last 3 months since we stopped shooting and lost 25 lbs, on my way to 50. But at the end of the day, I've had two back surgeries (recovering from them is how I got fat again in the first place), and I'm sensitive to very stiff cars, in shape or not.
Matt I like that you're a bigger guy. Just having one passenger in my car is certainly noticeable, and the domain of peoples weights can be as much as to rival or surpass the weight of some people. It is reassuring that the assessment of the cars is verified by someone who feels the car under this barely significant extra measure of scrutiny.
On your request, I watched Chris's video, which, while quite good, came to very similar conclusions that we did about the power of the 1M being more accessible, and the Cayman R having great balance, inputs, and feel. But without acceleration data, lap times, and "hard facts," neither my review nor Chris's is objective in any way, they are both 100% subjective. But just because Chris didn't actually declare a winner doesn't mean we don't have the right to say one is better than the other.
The ceramic discs and calipers are also bigger than the standard stainless steel hardware, which will reduce stopping distance.
But if speed or torque wasn't the only thing ( or let's say this reason is ruled out) would u still get Cayman S, with softer suspensions
Video review of a car you can't buy (anymore) in the u.s. Brilliant!
love the show and the podcast. I stumbled on it right around the time you launched the first episode and must say it's the most entertaining podcast! keep up the good work! waaaay better than slightly less meh....and there's a lot of meh out there.
That was my entire argument. That the Cayman R is a waste of money for what you get.
when you fork over the cash for a track rental, we'd be happy to track test.
do i hear the turbos in that bmw? or is that wind noise ?
Awesome Video! Can't wait for the next installment. Maybe a Smoking Tire TV show eventually?!?!
So you're saying you can't compare the Ferrari 458 to the McLaren MP4-12C because one of them uses turbochargers, even though they are direct competitors? You can't compare a Porsche Turbo and a Lamborghini Gallardo? Can't compare a DBS to an M6 or SL63 because one uses forced induction and the other doesn't? That's a silly argument.
btw great show its nice to watch something new all the time after long day at work.. Greetings all the way from Chi town
Another awesome video. I own a 3-series but never liked the 1. To me it looks homely, I don't know... really don't like the side view. But, you can't see the outside from the cockpit, and EVERYONE loves how the car drives, especially the ///M. Can't fault that. :-]
Both great cars, simple as that. M1 for daily use and Cayman for track.
but, at the end of the day, the performance numbers are so similar that it would require testing or a heads up race to tell the difference. From the driver's seat, the 1M just feels faster because of the extra torque and wider power band, and that's what I think most drivers will be focusing on: more usable power. The fact that Porsche charges $27k more for the Cayman than BMW charges for the 1M is why I'd rather have the 1M.
Pretty sure you mean discontinued, not discounted, and if that's what you mean, then yes, it's limited for your market as well.
well you say that matt, but in the UK, there was only like 500 shipped there i believe. And it is now discounted so therefore, isnt it kinda considered as a limited production run?
Awesome video Matt, keep 'em coming !!!
I think the Cayman GTS would have been a more apt comparison.
+ChemAndAdrenaline the GTS was released in 2014.... this video is from 2012
we're not even to 981 series at this point
Nice to see a new TST video, and this is a very good one ! I agree with you, I love that little 1M.
Great comparo Matt, been following you since you had to park your vett' in the garage with wood planks...keep it up!
The BMW 1 series M is a masterpiece, and one of my dream cars.
TheSmokingTire is back!!! Great job guys.
Please do a M3 vs 1 Series M.
I drove a buddies BMW 135i 300 hp version on those same roads in your vid. We swapped cars for a quick canyon run to Leo Carillo beach.Torque was very impressive in that one, handling a little sloppy, but I am sure the 1M is much better in every way to then stock 135i. BMW makes great cars, no doubt. I am one those guys that gets out of his car and has to look back every time to admire its great "style". You know, some guys just prefer blondes with curves, that all ;^) keep up the great work!
His points on 1M are valid. For me part of owning a sports car is the emotional appeal, 1M is just too practical for that. The Cayman you feel like you are in a sports car when sat down low, there's more mechanical noise coming from mid engine behind you, it corners flatter and you don't have to fight the mass as much. The 1M still looks a bit downsyndrome from Bangle design, and this is coming from ex-owner of 135i.
I want both cars in my garage. NOW!!!!
when you rev the engine to get the most of it it just add to the fun . it isn't a bad point, it's a bloody gd one
997 Carrera 4S , Boxster S 3.4 liter, Cayenne S (for the wifey). Hope to get an earlier 911 soon. I would like to add a classic to the garage ;^) HS is where the car dreams start, Plan ahead, work hard and stay focused and in time you can get one, or more, too ;^)
My bolt on(just intake and exhaust mods, no tune) v6 accord dynoed 269 whp at the local performance shop's dyno, a Cayman R was there and dynoed 262 whp.
Let's be real here guys around 5 seconds to 60 miles per hour is plenty fast
What I mean is that the Porsche feels like the sum of its parts whereas the BMW feels like more than the sum of its parts. I don't remember saying I "expect" the Porsche to be faster, I did say that I wished it was faster though.
I appreciate ur videos. It makes sense to the majority of the buyers b/c they will be mainly driving it on public roads. However, we're comparing top performance cars from two big manufacturers, these should be done on the track. We're not comparing a basic 1 series to a Boxster. I track my STi and M3 and u definitely would have a different review on them when u rate them on the track. In the end,all I'm saying is that performance cars should be reviewed on the track to tell the real story.
you just do it. It's the internet, anyone can be a producer.
complains about the stiffness.. says good on track or smooth roads. What do you think the R in CAYMAN R stands for?/..........
you negated your own argument. You yourself use the word "everyday cars." And uncomfortable seats and an overly stiff suspension are two things I definitely don't want in an everyday car, especially when the competition doesn't have such issues.
The sticker on our test vehicle was $79,500. Almost no one buys a base Porsche of any kind, they are incredibly difficult to find.
ahem, ceramic discs themselves do not make a car stop faster.... unless the ceramic disks are bigger than the steel discs, in which case the physics case for the car stopping faster is 100% in line.
If I were you I'd listen to the reviews from the people who don't have automotive manufacturers as advertisers.
little of both.
Hey Matt, is there a chance you could drive one of those Singer 911s. I absolutely adore those things, and there is hardly any videos of them.
because $80,000 buys you a 500 horsepower Z06. It buys you a 450 horsepower RS5, a 662 horsepower GT500 (and enough left over for brake and suspension upgrades). For $80,000, 330 horsepower is not enough.
can you get the 1m in america seems no to be on the bmw website so I cant compare prices.