Faces After Suicide: with Author/Producer Lindsey Doolittle
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- In this broadcast, we talk about the taboo: suicide. Author/Producer Lindsey Doolittle has directed two short films on the subject based on her own experience with the loss of a partner.
This won't always be an easy conversation, but it remains a critical one, with plenty of suggested resources for navigating grief.
ABOVE THE RUG: abovetherug.com
FACES AFTER SUICIDE FILM: bit.ly/3CUSIXi
VAN GOGH FILM: bit.ly/3Nu5XmJ
GOFUNDME LINK TO DONATE: rb.gy/0bqof
RFR: www.recoveringf...
GRIEVING BILL OF RIGHTS: bit.ly/3NTpNJh
SUICIDE AND CRISIS HELPLINE: dial 988
Thank you Seth for hosting Lindsey.
My 34 year old son committed suicide (in 2006) after being in a motorcycle accident that left him a paraplegic and my husband of 28 years passed just five months ago.
I've gone and continue to go through all the emotions she talked about and it's true that you never get over it, you just get through it.
Thanks. I got interrupted in the process twice. And now that I've left religion, my life has so much more meaning and purpose than it ever did before. Thanks so much.
i nearly committed suicide, when I was a teen. Noone should ever blame family or loved ones. For me, it was a personal decision, nothing would have stopped me from the family. To hear other people blame close ones is very distressing to me.
I felt the same way for a long time, but upon further reflection, I found that a lot of what I thought was normal was abuse, and I should've been put into therapy.
When I was young JW's used to say "taking the easy way out". I heard that over and over and always thought how sick that was. Religion can't make money off dead people.
Oh, don't be mistaken. They can and do make money off of this.
It's just a smaller income stream. That's what they don't like.
I agree with you, hence that is why I am an atheist.
Amen!!!
Religion destroyed human brain after life is not true.When we die it is done.
My empathy goes out to this woman.
I've tried to end my life several times and I don't think I'll be able to finish this video. But thanks for talking about it.
@ 22:40, WOW, this young Lady turned an awful personal tragedy into an amazing life-enhancing opportunity for herself and so many others. Clear evidence that we all cannot control what happens in life to us, but we do absolutely control what we can do with those unpredictable events… 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Awesome video.
Remember:
Getting help; is not a weakness.
All of us need help at some point in our lives and thats ok. ❤
I tried twice when I was younger. Much younger. I was not depressed. It wasn't my outsider feelings. I just didn't want to be around people. People were awful. I still think that, but now I can love them where they are. People are okay. They aren't good and bad. So, I was concerned with their basic goodness and I didn't think people had any goodness. I tried twice. Not because of my feeling bad or awful. It was because I thought every one else was bad and awful. I'm now 74. It has been 50 years. My feeling about suicide is the same. A person really has the absolute right to die on their demand. It is sad for those left behind. Very sad. But other people's sadness is insufficient. And there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. So, if you have someone who ends their life, don't feel guilty about it. Be sad but not guilty.
So you tbought u were perfect back then and others were bad. Glad u woke up to life
@@Ksvtjhyb7 How the world did you get to that conclusion? I certainly didn't think I was "perfect." I thought I was another awful human being.
I just hit the 22-year mark as a Police/Fire/EMS Dispatcher in rural Oregon, and the first class my department sent me to after graduating from the police academy was Suicide Intervention. The one big mistake all of us made during scenario training was repeatedly asking, "Why do you want to do this,"...so we could figure out how to minimize it. At the time, we didn't realize that's why we were doing it, but an analysis of our collective approach was that we tried to save their lives by convincing them, "It's not that bad." Since then, I've had a handful of suicide calls, and because of my mistakes in that class, the first thing I say is, "Please don't." For many, just hearing somebody say, "I want you to live," is enough to make them pause.
A trainer once told me, "When it comes to trauma, you can either sweat it out or cry it out." Well, one of my officers cried immediately after the conclusion of a lengthy, armed standoff. Everyone came out of it alive, but once it was over, the stress vented itself. Two other officers trash talked him behind his back, questioning his manhood and fitness for duty because he had the audacity to cry after _not_ shooting an armed, emotionally disturbed, _fellow military veteran._ In America...and particularly in military and police work...men are only "allowed" two emotions; joy and anger. It's not just that we're not taught how to deal with our _other_ emotions; it's that we're taught that even _having_ them is weakness.
I've heard people ask, "How could they do that to their (insert loved one here)." Having been, in junior high school, one flick of the wrist from taking my own life, people who die by suicide often feel so alone and isolated, in the moment, that it doesn't occur to them that anyone will mind losing them. Moreover, sometimes they feel like they'd be doing their loved ones a favor by no longer burdening those they love with the "rotten fruits" of their own relentless mental health struggles. It's not selfish. It's not cowardly. It's not lazy. It's heartbreaking. I know nothing I've said is about what survivors of suicide loss experience...though I've been there, too...but I wish more people understood that attacking "victims" _never_ makes things better.
P.S. I would love to see the RFR documentary as a _series_ in the style of Leah Remini's series about Scientology, talking to experts while following individuals on their journey out.
Excellent comment!
I have had this conversation with people several times and no one seems to understand. The idea is dismissed outright. Women act like I'm somehow dismissing the experiences of women. On the contrary, I would support anyone who has and is experiencing trauma. As someone who has attempted suicide (and probably will again), men almost never have the support available. As you mentioned, we aren't able to even express this emotions and are emasculated when we do!
After a lifetime of trauma, I've come to the understanding that most of us never receive the help we desperately need! Maybe in the 22nd century, but definitely not in my lifetime!
@@jhakama I wholeheartedly agree! Only in the last couple of generations has society begun to realize that, "Suck it up, and move on," doesn't work. I have a coworker, less than a decade older than I am, who says, "I don't believe in PTSD. They used to just call it Shell Shock. All this P.C. language only allows people to wallow in it and make excuses for not getting on with their lives." What he doesn't realize is that focusing on the _language_ allows people to willfully ignore the _problem._ People with Shell Shock didn't get on with their lives any better than people with PTSD; they just didn't get the attention or help they needed...from doctors or society in general.
P.S. If/when...in the future...you contemplate ending your life, please call 9-8-8, and give a compassionate stranger the opportunity to talk you out of it...even if just for one more day. Just from the little bit you and I have interacted, I think the world would be _less_ without you in it.
@@OmniphonProductions, what a wonderful way to finish. Apparently you do know how to talk to people like us. 😂
Most likely I'll be checking myself back in to inpatient.
@@jhakama Whatever it takes to keep you around...I'll take it! As for knowing, "...how to talk to people like us," as mentioned in my first comment, I _was_ people like us once.
Thanks. To the both of you. In Croatia, where i'm from, there's no place to talk about suicide. No groups, no support phones. You're left to youself, almost like the people who kill themselves. That has to change
Seth, out of a channel full of gems and treasures, this interview is simply stunning. Thank you, and thank Ms. Doolittle.
I have known 12 people who have died by suicide, several of them really good friends. I think of them often. Some of them I had known since grade school. Decades later I can still hear their voices and laugh about the things we did when we were young.
Thank you for touching on people choosing to end their life situation. I had a brother who made that choice in 1983. I know he was in deep pain but he never spoke about it to anyone. I just didn't know how to reach out to him and I carried that guilt inside of me for many years. My son who has mental issues tells me if the voices that controls his life, don't stop, says he will end his life. He refuses to seek help for his psychosis. I'm doing everything I can to help him but to no avail.
Of all the daily uploads by the content creators I follow, this was a refreshing video to emerge out of the blue Seth.
Great video.
Thanks for making this. I can't finish watching it now, but I will when I'm able to. You are a wonderful person, Seth.
Very kind, brother. Thank you. :)
What an outstanding interview Seth. Lindsey is amazing.
Seth, you are excellent at formulating good questions.
Magnificent gift. Thank you Seth and Lindsey. Big hug.
The police acted like narcissistic assholes to her??? Noooooooo I can’t believe it….
Which is why redirecting the funds police used to answer these calls is so important. Maybe that is what we should have said instead. Redirect the Police, instead of defund. Then you are just pointing them to more suitable activities (like stopping crime, duh) instead of them thinking they are having something taken away so they cry and whine all the time.
@@littlebitofhope1489yeah, redirect the police would be much more accurate and helpful then defund the police. Issues of mental health crisis should be directed to mental health professionals instead of the police.
@@cullenarthur8879 Exactly.
Sadly, people who want to be cops are generally pathologically insecure and hypersensitive. I think most of them are very disturbed!
I have known a few people who died by suicide, one of which was my aunt. I still stuggle in understanding how to help direct survivors, but at least this video helped shine light onto what NOT to do, as well as where to look for possible mistreatment towards survivors. If just one person can be on a survivors side to fight the ignorance, im sure it makes all the difference.
It really hurt my son died last sept 2018 by suicide,i don't believe demon,evil spirit, possessed they don't exist.I think he suffer depression until now i struggle for what he did a graduate of aero engr at the age of 25.I'am a strong atheist.
my condolences 🙏🏽 I lost a son too.
@@MissOne condolence too.
This isn’t easy to listen to. I’m not able to get through it as someone who would have considered me a friend in high school ended his time with us in yr 11. Also my best friends dad did the same, they saw him first too if I remember correctly. These conversations are important, it’s important to hear the stories of those left behind and offer support to them. I just can’t get through it. I hope a lot of people can 😊.
I had seen her before in one of her galleries in Kansas City for First Fridays Arts Districts, she's really sweet and open to everyone. Her drawings are excellent! 🙂
Thank you! 🙂
Thanks for this wonderful interview! Lots of take away messages.
Who gives this a thumbs down? Unreal.
I have attempted suicide a couple of times. This year has been the worst so far with suicidal ideation becoming more and more consistent. Bringing up the conversation with friends seems to create a widening divide and feels even more isolating. Inpatient facilities only provide short term benefits with symptoms returning immediately after. Sadly, almost 100% of the organizations in West Michigan are Christian, which can trigger trauma responses. It's also been difficult to maintain a job and homelessness is inevitable (the eviction notice is chill'n on the couch). If the decision is between living on the streets and not living at all, well.... Life is full of too much suffering as is.
I wish there was a place I could stay for much longer to rebuild my life. To relearn how to function in as a productive member of society, but that's only wishful thinking (just like when I believed in the Christian god). Even getting out of bed is difficult. EMDR counseling sessions have only had limited results. After about two years it's frustrating.
I appreciate those who are willing to have these conversations, but most people couldn't care less. Or they feel so uncomfortable that they refuse to listen. In my humble opinion, most of us are longing to feel human connection and to know that we matter to someone. Both of which are all but a fading dream for men, like me, who live with mental illness.
I've had a rough year as well. You're right about the need for human connection.
Wow that brought me tears. The grief of families and those that struggle with mental health or other health ...after seeing What about Maya ...yeah this is rough.😢
ua-cam.com/video/sNJvc4hqmAQ/v-deo.html I mean this Maya
Oh sorry the documentary is called Take Care of Maya ...
wow it was over in 2 seconds. I was on the of my seat, good luck Lindsey!
Thank you so much for this conversation
You deserve to be Happy, Lindsey. Especially if you met Robert the Bruce from 'Braveheart'.
And "you deserve to be happy" is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what traditional institutional dogmatic religion has been teaching!
The thin blue line is so thin they would break if they had to support this person and their family...
Thanks for this.
Well done Lindsey in being able to talk about it.
it's such a big taboo subject, and requires serious discussion just like for any other human mental health.
setting up last resort (performative) suicide prevention hotlines i see as a lack of being serious about this.
When i was a child (about 11 or 12) i foolishly and impulsively tried to commit suicide. It was a childish and immature lashing out at my parents, and of course, being that age just sucks for anyone. I don't think i completely comprehended the finality of what I was attempting to do. I came very close to succeeding, and it still gives me chills how close an impulsive, childish act was almost the end for me. I'll just tell you that i woke up on the ground, looking up at the ceiling after passing out from a quick depravation of oxygen. The belt broke. If it hadn't, i would have died.
Saying all that, i definitely support the right for adults in certain circumstances to have final say over their lives and death. Mine was not one of those circumstances.
I thjnk police have an especially hard time dealing with the suicide of a fellow officer for a few reasons...there's the whole "coward's way out" attitude that is so prevalent, thats a cultural problem damn near everywhere. But i think theres also that they think of themselves as like "The Good Guys(tm)", and for one of them not to see the signs or ignore them, it messes with that image in their minds...especially if the one who died directly puts blame on their job. Also, i think it holds up the mirror they REALLY do not want to face. My experience with cops has been that they are loathe to admit any weakness whatsoever, and a lot of them have a hard time dealing with the traumatic situations they themselves have experienced. I have no doubt theres so many more, and all of them contribute to the need to find someone or something else to blame. A concrete reason you can easily wrap your head around, even if its a false one, is so much easier than dealing with complicated emotions.
Well said...and I think very accurate!
No, that's pretty much the attitude for the majority of society. The real problem with police is that they recruit so hard from Veterans. Can you think of a dumber idea than that? Let's take people who have been trained to KILL and put then in a job that used to be to protect people. No wonder they don't serve and protect. They think WE are the enemy. They were trained that way in the military, and police training reinforces it. That is partly what the "thin blue line"nonsense is. It is really about othering civilians. They say their job is so dangerous, but percentage wise, they are MUCH more dangerous to us than we are to them.
I was not asked to born & I if decide when I want to die I believe I have that right.
This video has made me think I need to reach out to friends and family to prepare them .
I had a boyfriend when I was young who said he was going to suicide. I told his parents and my parents. His parents ignored me. My parents tried to talk to his parents, and they told us to leave them alone. I really felt like they were angry at the messenger.
having been suicidal earlier in life, one is in a bubble, others don't exist, others don't know. one wears a mask of normalcy and loved ones usually have no idea the loved one is suicidal. it's a highly personal and lonely decision. we don't talk about it to anyone because they will not understand what they haven't experienced. the family and friends are not to blame.
that said, i had a friend who played a big part in the suicide of her friend. the friend got another DUI and was facing jail time and wanted to leave the state to avoid it, at least for a while, and my friend told her the police would hunt her down anywhere she went and she would go to trial. her friend committed suicide. i DO blame my "friend".
Great show, I recommend Lindsey to listen to the song Vincent by Don McLean , it can be great!
I believe, when someone resolves to leave… You gotta let’em go….
Here is the problem. I have had a triple bypass. I have six disks I have problems with. I was just diagnosed with aortic aneurism and kidney stones. I've had three strokes and I have balance problems now. I'm in pain every day . I think about ending it every day.
What would you miss? Cheeseburgers, movies, laughing with friends? Please don't pull the plug until you're absolutely sure you have nothing to live for. I can only say those feelings did not last forever with me.
The police department shunned her... I'm totally not surprised!
What if you have no friends or family and are too poor to have any family or friends.
This is gonna be difficult for me ... Wifiepoo is Disabled with a Degenerative disease, that has like an 80% suicide rate......
Vincent van Gogh didn't kill himself. Read the Naifeh and Smith biography of him
@10:27 there's a culture of blaming women for what men do
Recovery costs lots of money just like religion xan.
Can I be honest a little bit? ...She says people blame others when someone exists, sure that's true... but then she goes on a long rant about what the police did... Also, why is she partnered with Suicide Prevention? This movement she's apart of is literally the one sweeping everything UNDER the rug by keeping the stigma alive by not talking about giving people options to die peacefully and the failures of medicine/therapy. Why does she not talk about how her husband should have had the right to apply for voluntary euthanasia? NAMI/SP/etc are the problem. They create the taboo we're all fighting against (or should be). There's a reason he said "No" when asked by the therapist about checking out, he knew the second you do that you're thrown into a mental hospital for 72 hours. He knew the game, especially as a cop. ...Until we can have REAL conversations about helping people exit peacefully if they want to without fear of being swatted, this same horror will continue. It is no different than alcohol/pot prohibition. People will do this ANYWAYS, so give them a peaceful, dignified, LEGAL option to exit in peace, and not alone in a garage. I'm very disappointed this couldn't have been a better conversation about how her husband's death was completely avoidable if we change legislation and the perception of WHY people take their lives.
At 6:40, that account sounds 🤪🤪🤪…. Would absolutely want to listen to their side of the story.
It's pretty common
ever and ever and there would be no way to just let it end I mean you can't always Ascend or improve or learn more forever and ever or get better at everything bc there's only so far you can go and we're talking about eternity here so may as well go to hell at least I would find better company there or if the wages of sin is death wherein I could finally die completely like everything else does like we're supposed to and show me how to sin and I promise all sin enough to pay extra bc given the choice between that and an eternal afterlife in heaven or anywhere I would literally rather die
if Aron Ra doesn't repent he will die in his sins and never see the kingdom of God
The 33 years of christs death is truly the 33 vertebrae of your spine that contain your divine 7 chakras that ayahuasca activates for spiritual ascension, and the 12 disciples are truly the twelve cranial nerves in your brain that ayahuasca activates that have to do with your crown chakra that represent the twelve signs of the zodiac for your inner completion of Universal consciousness of Spirit and access to the Heavenly realms.
Are you lost?
@@PhantomQueenOne Explain why we shamans can ask infinite questions about the infinite heavens, infinite universe, nature, etc, that we shamans have all the answers to as We BECAME it in Spirit, and you would not be able to answer even one of our questions ? Please explain.
@@robertdemeter5793 Oh, you are definitely on the wrong channel. Go blabber on a christian page. This is an atheist page, you will win no souls for jebus here.
I thought numerology was the work of the devil.
This is how I think... And then I say: "Oh yeah, I forgot to take my anti-psychotic meds!"
My father was a deputy sheriff. If he were here, he would be VERY disappointed to hear the way the police department treated her. All the best to this movement. :)
As someone who believes its a right we should all have i can't understand blaming anyone for the decision to end their life i personally don't plan on making it past 50 its pointless to force others to exist suffering when they don't want to & should offer help