About that google form (link in description) - another massive thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. It's pretty incredible to see the interest out there, and I really do want to get to everyone. I'm a little swamped until the end of this year, but fully intend to dive into that initiative in 2025. Feel free to leave your thoughts there or shoot me an email as well about anything - it's in my channel description :)
@@TheFlyingMooseCA I literally sit and make transit maps for hours, for fun, because I’m obsessed with maps and trains. I’m a freelance filmmaker, I have my own adobe suite and computer……. Hahaha hmu? 👉🏻👈🏻🥹
The other main reason why LRT costs so much in Toronto is cause Toronto has TERRIBLE records of underground infrastructure, pipes, sewers, footings, etc. The main reason why the Eglington LRT took forever cause every time they dug somewhere, they ran into something that wasnt supposed to be there.
@@Agentcodybanks18177 Oh man that is scary. I can see that for sure, I knew a few guys working on the LRT when it started. I did some work on it in 2021 march to the end of 2021. So all the excavation was done more or less.
Not only that. The ECLRT was completely fumbled from the get go. Crosstown Solutions (the consortium managing the eg LRT) filed a couple lawsuits against Metrolinx and there have been legal battles ever since. Also, there are a lot of technical issues aside from questionable infrastructure. Software defects, track alignment, and legal disputes have made this project a billion dollar mess.
For example a big chunk of concrete from a conveniently forgotten project from for the days of when Dougie's dad was part of the government. Common sense my ass.
Unfortunately our short term vision (quick ROI) and 4 year terms means that governments only have 1.5 year to do actual work and the rest of the time is campaigning and undoing previous governments progress
Yea I just commented that it’s a shame we didn’t have people like the ones who pushed for the second level in the prince edward viaduct. People with foresight who could see things would grow and it would only make it harder to build it in the future. I mean that second level wasn’t used for over 40 years, actually closer to 50 yet it sees how many of million people cross it a year now? This countries planning became a joke the further we moved away from our English/british influence imo. I’m sure that’ll get some hate but history speaks for itself
At the same time, in the US the urban core population is decreasing while suburban and small town populations are increasing. There needs to be a balance between investing in transit which serves primarily urban areas to the reality that there are less and less people using them year after year. One could argue with current trends, building transit now has a negative roi due to the population shift.
forget about foresight, most of the time North American transit projects die in overly politized back and forth of feasibility studies, cancelation, and changes in governments
As a transportation planner in Toronto, I have to say this is by far the best comprehensive explainer video on the history of this line. You nailed it!
The missing subway that is sorely needed is the short jot between Yonge & Sheppard, and Sheppard West on the University line. Without that, people would have to ride all the way south to congest the Bloor line and transfer again up the University line, making what would be a 5 km trip without transferring at all, to a 15 (or 20 ?) Km trip with 3 transfers plus waiting time for each train!
bro is one of the goat urbanist youtubers for actually understanding and explaining the process by which new transit actually gets built instead of breaking out the crayons for an unviable dream network 🔥 hope someday you can come out to seattle and explain the context behind link light rail- few people understand the decisions behind what led to the system we're building today
Its funny you say "process by which new transit actually gets built". Doesnt seem like theres any process, and the one process there is is a bunch of government mishandling and stupidity. If we had a better government who wasnt switching their minds every other week we would get so much more done in this city.
I live in Toronto where I follow many You Tubers that cover the GTA transit and this video was well done! Well thought out! To cover half a century of TTC/GTA transit politics within 20min is tricky. I notice how well your contents flow from one topic to another flawlessly!! This is one of the top rated and enjoyable video I have seen covering this topic! Thank you
As I was watching I had the thought; "Wow, the CBC really stepped up their game" Small independent channel?! The pacing, humor, information, production, host, just phenomenal
I was thinking the same thing. I moved to Toronto when I was 18 - I'm now 65 - and I have been amazed that no one, even the press, has a grasp of what a dumpster fire public transit in Toronto has been for decades. This was perfect in explaining how politicians should never be urban planners.
It's crazy seeing how many times someone comes up with a great plan then it dies, only to be re born and die again. I hope we can start learning from the past instead of repeating it.
Government changes every 4 years. That's long enough to make everyone pay for a project, but not long enough to for them to benefit from it. Maybe no one wants to be person that costs people money--and not the person that gives people things?
@@DanSkunkyes, imagine, what private companies would become, if their executives would be changed each year? They would only try to fill their pockets as much as possible in that short period, and companies would collapse quickly. That's why strong responsible autocracy, where rulers actually treat their country as their and care about it's development for a long term is more preferable than this oligarchic plutocracy facaded as democracy. Like Russians, they consciously support that autocracy despite having open Internet and access to other countries, voices of opposition abroad and to Western media/propaganda constant criticism of Russian authorities, unlike other authoritarian and totalitarian countries with heavily restricted internet
@@mrobocop1666 Sure, but how would you ensure that autocracy is responsible to everyone if not accountable to them? At least the democracy keeps the plutocracy in check; while they push the limits of their influence, they can only push so far before people push them back. Maybe we teach people to consider their future more rather than deprive them of all agency in the hope that someone else will do it for them?
4:33 you state "we dont do this stuff anymore" at the timestamp, but fun fact, the new ACCE building at Algonquin College in Ottawa, Ontario reserved a large portion of space underneath their building for an anticipated subway station. 13 years later, its finally getting used.
Lots of people argue that "you can't build x train line because there are houses in the way." One way to avoid that criticism is to reserve routes as soon as you realise they are necessary, so you don't have to surprise people later. Even if someone does build a house or other property, they should know that that route may well be used for a trainline in the future. Best time to do that was 40 years ago, but the second best time to do that is now, to prevent anything else being built and to give people a chance to prepare that things may change in their neighbourhood, or even to their property.
Fun Fact: The rail sleepers (ties) used on the Melbourne (Australia) Underground Rail Loop are named ‘Toronto Sleepers’ due to their use in their name sake city. They are double ties.
OMG, FINALLY a video pointing out how insanely large the stations on the york extension were. Every time I mention this, how Downsview Park station, a station with almost the lowest passenger volume of the WHOLE SYSTEM, is this massive unnecessary monstrosity you get tons of people giving the pathetic "but one day it'll need that capacity" or the equally dumb "but fire regulations REQUIRE a station so big you could almost fit Skydome in the hole they dug (yes, I know that's an exageration). Lets go back to how we built Line 2, quick, efficient, spartan and CHEAP. What would you rather have, 40km or subway line with simple small stations, or 10km of subways with monster stations?
Even with the massive stations, the TTC got that extension built properly, unlike the never-ending boondoggle of the Eglinton LRT by Metrolinx and various public/private shenanigans.
@ don’t care? Built properly after a ton of wasted money is still a ton of wasted money. We could have had either a much longer line, or much less money spent. Stop with the strawman. One ‘worse’ doesn’t negate one ‘bad’
@@repatch43 How many years of delays and cost overages is the Crosstown at now? It wasn’t a 1-1 comparison. The Crosstown has had objectively worse execution on various metrics. Multiple suppliers always yields such issues, yet we seem stuck with the lie that private partnerships “can do it better”. It’s just another way to funnel public money into private hands.
Excellent video! As an immigrant to this country, it's always good to understand a bit about the history of our city, where did we come from and where we are going. I'm glad to be living at a moment of rapid urban expansion and to be able to experience all the changes.
Honestly having the Ontario Line in place might have a profound impact on the housing situation in Toronto. All of the sudden you’ll have more than half the city freeing up maybe 10-30% of their yearly income that would have gone into living costs for homes within the zone of acceptable commuting time. Imagine all that extra money being spent in our local economy - we would fix so many issues.
I live by the future Ontario line just north of the Danforth. This won’t make a big difference in commuting time. Little new housing will be built near it since this area is already full of low density housing. Housing prices will go up near the line.
@@karagi101 You’re misunderstanding me - It’s about making housing prices in typically commuter-distance living communities more affordable, not the properties directly adjacent to the line. If anything your rent will probably rise, RIP
As a GTA-er, this video is a fantastic primer for folks on what our transit situation looks like and where it's going. I can't wait to use the Ontario Line when it's up and running.
“Building the Ontario Line is PRICELESS” Damn right! We need MORE subway lines already, fewer cars and fewer highways and less money for highways in exchange for more money for rapid transit!
Wow I’m so impressed with you, your research, the accuracy, your narration, the production, all of it. You have a very bright influential future and I can’t wait to see what you do next. Happy to chat anytime
One thing to note, my partner works for one of the contractors the TTC regularly uses for construction, he worked on the Vaughn extension for example and they were hired by Metrolinx for the Ontario line as well. A huge blunder Metrolinx did was, not communicate well enough with the contracters, they were all used to working with the TTC thus they used Toronto-gauge sized railways for the digging and laying track. The Ontario Line does not use Toronto-gauge like the TTC does, to save costs Metrolinx or Ford decided to use standard North American gauge sized railways (meaning they can buy supplies from anywhere in the states as well instead of using the few suppliers the TTC uses). This is fine but it was not communicated so miles of track was laid in Toronto-gauge before someone realized the mistake, and then all the work that was done had to be torn up and re-done. That's all my partner and his team have been doing the past year.
I wouldnt be suprised if metrolinx had bad communication. But the Ontario line is years away from laying any track so it can;t have been for this project.
Totally agree, transit is priceless. Awesome video, really good shots, editing, pace and information. And thanks for the links to advocacy groups. Can’t wait to see more.
As someone that grow up in Portugal (Lisbon) and then moved to NYC and also lived the South Florida, when I visit Canada, most specifically Toronto, last year, I was amazed how good the public transportation system was and how much it reminded me of Europe…. It’s definitely not cheap to build but you what else isn’t? Roads. Especially when you drive to Toronto from NJ. The traffic from Niagara Falls to Toronto was awful given the distance and the idea I had from USA roads. Yes, apart of a few cities in the USA, the traffic in that area of Canada was awful and public transportation is the only solution. But I also have to say, once I got to Toronto, it was like being back in Europe. Terrific infrastructure and it was like being home away from home! 💕
Having been born and raised in Toronto - well, Thornhill, but still - but now living in the Southeast US, it's always fun finding new Toronto-based UA-cam channels. Especially when they have great content like this!
Great video! Dr English is an amazing resource for Toronto as are you. I would love to see a video diving into the Soft Costs and how they can be reduced/mitigated. Keep on keeping on!
Hey, as a local Toronotonian, this was such a fascinating, informative, and well-produced video. Honestly, it was very pleasant to watch it all through!
You consistently put out great work 👍 Between you and CityNerd, I always feel a bit more confident having conversations with others on urbanism and its impacts. Thanks for keeping us educated n informed 👍
This was a great well researched video packed with information. Lot's of missed opportunities over the past 80 years but it's great that it's finally getting built. And the regional connectivity is great, connecting to Exhibition GO and East Harbour GO stations to also relieve pressure from Union Station. This project meshes well with GO expansion, connects with the Eglinton Crosstown, and relieves capacity on Yonge to be able to build the Yonge North Extension. I love this quote. "One of the terms that you always heard a lot was making evidence-based decisions," says Steve Wickens, a transportation researcher. "And what Metrolinx ended up becoming was an agency that produced decision-based evidence."
One of my favorite books is The Great Society Subway because it covers the history of the DC Metro AND the political environment surrounding it. You are one of my favorite content creators for that same reason. Thank you SO MUCH for doing what you do. It’s truly unique in this space.
Hey great video man. As a layman, it was really nice to such an information dense video that flowed smoothly without sounding like a slideshow presentation moving from point to point. Really appreciated how you gave context to behind how metrolinx ended up being responsible our construction projects, especially after the recent news of the finch west lrt
Excellent video! I recall the TO Star did a sting on TTC management. The reporters followed them to work at TTC HQ. Management didn't take the TTC. They all drove! I find the lack of some basic necessities at a busy subway station, for instance a washroom to be incredible.
Great video! Very informative and you did a great job outlining not only how far the costs for these projects have grown but also the city’s need for them.
Abandoning the downtown relief line was the biggest mistake in the history of this city. They were afraid of too much development! And what they got is way more development they imagined, but with residents driving cars downtown because streetcars are so slow. A move this dumb should never be forgotten
Subscribed. You are the first UA-cam channel devoted to Toronto transit that has captured the nuances of BS that were Network 2011 (1985), Let's Move (1989) and RTEP (1994). I lived through those plans in real time as a transit nerd just begging for SOMETHING to actually be built. I was a teenager at the start. I was a middle-aged man by the time anything actually happened in the 2000s.
don't think I've ever commented on a UA-cam video...but.. WOW bravo and well done for this. As a Toronto native who no longer lives there but loves the city, you kept this positive and hopeful which many, and I mean MANY Torontonians could try some time... it's a city that is exploding, changing and has created it's own buzz....all these transport projects are needed, despite any costs and delays...the end results will be worth it Thank you for this 🙏
Kudos to you, this is great work and should be watched by every resident of the GTA to understand the back history as to why we are in the mess we are in. I'm a huge fan of public rail transit and thought I knew a lot about public transit, but this has opened my eyes. How do we make people more aware of these issues?
Btw another way I think you can relive the pressure from downtown is by having a train go to Richmond Hill center, like there is a subway being built to there rn so it could relieve the pressure a lot I think
This is interesting history! And it shows just how fragile progress can be in public transit. It sounds like planning and scoping needs to be planned right away so that in case money gets available, shovels can be gotten in the ground right away. Feeling these difficulties just across the border!
What's interesting is as a tourist visiting Toronto back in September, I can't think of a time when I ran into heavy congestion or meandering detours that made me wish the Ontario Line existed (and yes, I traveled during rush hour). On the flipside, there were several times it would have been incredibly convenient for Line 5 to have been open.
@@faizsyed5528 That may be true, but that's not what was said. However, I can understand how they might have missed a word and meant to say "sad to see the _lack_ of public transit", which is the exact opposite meaning.
My take away from this video is that it is paramount that the Phillies win back to back world series' if SEPTA is ever going to get more funding in Philadelphia
Living in Toronto all my life, I always have to chuckle when people say it has "good transit". I mean sure, by North American standard perhaps and yes I can agree that it's not terrible, but I don't I can't say that it's "good" without keeping a straight face.
Great video. Toronto has been suffering too long for lack of transit, glad we're starting to catch up. The best time to build these lines was 40 years ago. The next best time us now.
Great insights on the history and evolution of Toronto's transit system! Very well delivered! Here's hoping the Ontario line will indeed be "priceless"
I'm only at the bit about Transit City but I have to point out one thing that is being missed here. Miller came to the conclusion about it having spent his campaign going across the city and heard massive complaints from the far edges of the city about how hard it was to get anywhere but downtown. So Transit city was designed to address that. If people could go across the top of the city, they wouldn't need to go to Bloor/Yonge. And Transit City did have a subway component - the subway extension to York University. The busway there was built based on the feedback he was getting from students until the subway extension happened. So that's why there wasn't a relief line in the plans.
Now that I've watched the rest, I want to point out the biggest crime about cancelling Transit City. There are still no plans to build a rapid transit line out to Malvern, which was something David was passionate about as Malvern is the poorest area of the city. And now that I live in Scarborough, I get it more than ever. The subway extension here won't help me but thankfully I live near Guildwood station. Those who are farther north of me? Still screwed.
@@MKPiatkowski The biggest crime is that Transit City had no relief line. And Miller knows that but refuses to admit it, which is why he's on twitter bashing the Ontario Line. The Spadina subway extension to York (announced in 2006) was not part of Transit City (2007). Miller was promised over $10 billion for Toronto transit by McGuinty as long as he publicly supported the subway, which he privately had no use for. The city's two biggest priorities by far were a relief line and an SRT replacement. But he spent most of his energy on Eglinton, Sheppard East, and Finch West. Unforgivable.
What a great quality video highlighting things that still need to be worked on intercity while giving relief that much needed change is finally happening.
toronto native here, they've been building another line across eglinton for over a decade and still no news on when that'll ever be completed even though all the infrastructure is already done. it was supposed to be complete in 2013 and has cost over a billion dollars. i'll be very surprised if this ontario line isn't a similar story
@@S1mpleThings No chance. Relocating utilities and digging shafts for the tunnel boring machines is two years by itself. They set 2020 as the target date in 2011.
If you are interested in some of the history of urban planning and transit in Toronto, there are a couple of great books on what could've been. Unbuilt Toronto I & II. Comes in Ebook format. Found it in the public library in regular book format. Tells the story of the infrastructure of the city, including the transit system. I also suggest Steve Munros blog.
A correction to the claim that many get wrong: The Prince Edward Viaduct wasn't intended and built to carry a subway, it was for full rail use, specifically the (what is now the CPR), which decided to build their crossing of the Don Valley further north. If one looks at the cross-sectional area that exists for the tunnel size under the viaduct's top level, it becomes obvious that the subway carriage gauge is tiny compared to what the facility was built for.
Great video. I lived in Toronto in the early 90s and was shocked when I came back in 2010 and nothing seemed to have changed much transit wise! They even still used tokens??? It’s been great to see things finally moving the past few years
he was literally filmed smoking crack from a crack pipe and nothing came of it. Shows you the dangers of post amalgamation. All his support came from the 905s.
Here's hoping the ontario line isn't going to suffer the Eglinton LRT fate. 4 years overdue and 500mil over budget and still not open. Edit: This was a really smooth watch, thank you for lifting the veil on history of Toronto transit! Subbed.
glad you enjoyed! and I know it doesn't inspire much confidence but Mx is a very young agency - hopefully the lessons from Eglinton really do translate into the OL :)
The criticism of TransitCity is very unfair. The original plans weren't over priced. It was the Ford re-vamp into the line 5 "underground LRT" that made it expensive.
No, that only delayed the start date. The lawsuits and poor engineering made it expensive. Not having a relief line was what made Transit City a failure. David Miller must never be forgiven for that.
toronto transit is trash. it's liteally the bare minimum. Montreal has a better system than them lols having street cars in a major metropolis in 2024 is asinine and backwater rube behaviour can't name me one major city that allows street cars to impede traffic on major roads/junctions. you literally can't. i predict Torontos economy will crash and burn in 10 years due to the lack of infrastructure for people to move around. a bunch of back water rubes run our province that only think about vaugahan and suburbs
I've been to over 30 countries, and Toronto's subway system is truly unique. For a subway system, delays are almost expected. What sets Toronto's subway apart is its chronic congestion. I've never experienced anything like it, not even in my travels to African countries. I've never been to North Korea, so I can't say if Toronto's subway could compare, but as a Canadian, I hesitate to compare it to modern transportation systems.😅
About that google form (link in description) - another massive thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. It's pretty incredible to see the interest out there, and I really do want to get to everyone. I'm a little swamped until the end of this year, but fully intend to dive into that initiative in 2025. Feel free to leave your thoughts there or shoot me an email as well about anything - it's in my channel description :)
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@@potatosol8008 damn I think UA-cam doesn't like links in comments lol - I just put the URL in the description instead. Thanks for the callout :)
I love public transport, and I love this video. Thank you.
Hey, love the vid! Huge production value! What's the awesome sweater you are wearing (with the airplane and antlers)?
@@mark-jim grab one here if you want one :^) the-flying-moose-shop.fourthwall.com/products/classic-hoodie?
the production value on this is insane wtf
ty, i need a map person because making those diagrams is the bane of my existence LOL
@@TheFlyingMooseCAneed help?
@@TheFlyingMooseCA I literally sit and make transit maps for hours, for fun, because I’m obsessed with maps and trains. I’m a freelance filmmaker, I have my own adobe suite and computer……. Hahaha hmu? 👉🏻👈🏻🥹
Fr
@@TheTrainNook perhaps 👀
The other main reason why LRT costs so much in Toronto is cause Toronto has TERRIBLE records of underground infrastructure, pipes, sewers, footings, etc. The main reason why the Eglington LRT took forever cause every time they dug somewhere, they ran into something that wasnt supposed to be there.
And they just decide to dig before knowing what's underground? What a joke
Bro as someone who spots for excavators in the city, we find random sewers, power/gas lines. Some still Iive and not on record lol. Chaos
@@Agentcodybanks18177 Oh man that is scary. I can see that for sure, I knew a few guys working on the LRT when it started. I did some work on it in 2021 march to the end of 2021. So all the excavation was done more or less.
Not only that. The ECLRT was completely fumbled from the get go. Crosstown Solutions (the consortium managing the eg LRT) filed a couple lawsuits against Metrolinx and there have been legal battles ever since. Also, there are a lot of technical issues aside from questionable infrastructure. Software defects, track alignment, and legal disputes have made this project a billion dollar mess.
For example a big chunk of concrete from a conveniently forgotten project from for the days of when Dougie's dad was part of the government. Common sense my ass.
It’s always cheaper to build transit now than in the future. I wish North America was better at planning ahead for future capacity.
Unfortunately our short term vision (quick ROI) and 4 year terms means that governments only have 1.5 year to do actual work and the rest of the time is campaigning and undoing previous governments progress
Yea I just commented that it’s a shame we didn’t have people like the ones who pushed for the second level in the prince edward viaduct. People with foresight who could see things would grow and it would only make it harder to build it in the future. I mean that second level wasn’t used for over 40 years, actually closer to 50 yet it sees how many of million people cross it a year now? This countries planning became a joke the further we moved away from our English/british influence imo. I’m sure that’ll get some hate but history speaks for itself
At the same time, in the US the urban core population is decreasing while suburban and small town populations are increasing. There needs to be a balance between investing in transit which serves primarily urban areas to the reality that there are less and less people using them year after year. One could argue with current trends, building transit now has a negative roi due to the population shift.
Transit should be a central part of every new development.
forget about foresight, most of the time North American transit projects die in overly politized back and forth of feasibility studies, cancelation, and changes in governments
As a transportation planner in Toronto, I have to say this is by far the best comprehensive explainer video on the history of this line. You nailed it!
Really glad you enjoyed it!
The missing subway that is sorely needed is the short jot between Yonge & Sheppard, and Sheppard West on the University line.
Without that, people would have to ride all the way south to congest the Bloor line and transfer again up the University line, making what would be a 5 km trip without transferring at all, to a 15 (or 20 ?) Km trip with 3 transfers plus waiting time for each train!
bro is one of the goat urbanist youtubers for actually understanding and explaining the process by which new transit actually gets built instead of breaking out the crayons for an unviable dream network 🔥
hope someday you can come out to seattle and explain the context behind link light rail- few people understand the decisions behind what led to the system we're building today
Thanks a lot! i'll be visiting Seattle quite a bit next year, so I'm definitely planning to cover some topics there :)
@@TheFlyingMooseCA :D It's an interesting system that needs to exist but is still quite flawed, I can't wait to see you talk about it.
Its funny you say "process by which new transit actually gets built". Doesnt seem like theres any process, and the one process there is is a bunch of government mishandling and stupidity. If we had a better government who wasnt switching their minds every other week we would get so much more done in this city.
I live in Toronto where I follow many You Tubers that cover the GTA transit and this video was well done! Well thought out! To cover half a century of TTC/GTA transit politics within 20min is tricky. I notice how well your contents flow from one topic to another flawlessly!! This is one of the top rated and enjoyable video I have seen covering this topic! Thank you
my dude i am 7 minutes into your video and it feels like i'm a kid again watching a show on TVO, it's so informative and so PLEASING to watch!!!
As I was watching I had the thought;
"Wow, the CBC really stepped up their game"
Small independent channel?!
The pacing, humor, information, production, host, just phenomenal
high praise, thank you 😊
sadly CBC is garbage and needs the government handouts to stay afloat
I was thinking the same thing. I moved to Toronto when I was 18 - I'm now 65 - and I have been amazed that no one, even the press, has a grasp of what a dumpster fire public transit in Toronto has been for decades. This was perfect in explaining how politicians should never be urban planners.
"decision-based evidence"
Brilliant turn of phrase!
Thanks for the excellent video.
It's crazy seeing how many times someone comes up with a great plan then it dies, only to be re born and die again. I hope we can start learning from the past instead of repeating it.
Government changes every 4 years. That's long enough to make everyone pay for a project, but not long enough to for them to benefit from it. Maybe no one wants to be person that costs people money--and not the person that gives people things?
@@DanSkunkyes, imagine, what private companies would become, if their executives would be changed each year? They would only try to fill their pockets as much as possible in that short period, and companies would collapse quickly.
That's why strong responsible autocracy, where rulers actually treat their country as their and care about it's development for a long term is more preferable than this oligarchic plutocracy facaded as democracy.
Like Russians, they consciously support that autocracy despite having open Internet and access to other countries, voices of opposition abroad and to Western media/propaganda constant criticism of Russian authorities, unlike other authoritarian and totalitarian countries with heavily restricted internet
@@mrobocop1666 Sure, but how would you ensure that autocracy is responsible to everyone if not accountable to them? At least the democracy keeps the plutocracy in check; while they push the limits of their influence, they can only push so far before people push them back. Maybe we teach people to consider their future more rather than deprive them of all agency in the hope that someone else will do it for them?
I wouldn't hold my breath lol
@@mrobocop1666 that is in fact how publically traded companies works
Can't believe how good this Toronto video is.
4:33 you state "we dont do this stuff anymore" at the timestamp, but fun fact, the new ACCE building at Algonquin College in Ottawa, Ontario reserved a large portion of space underneath their building for an anticipated subway station. 13 years later, its finally getting used.
Ah good to know - thanks for sharing!
Lots of people argue that "you can't build x train line because there are houses in the way." One way to avoid that criticism is to reserve routes as soon as you realise they are necessary, so you don't have to surprise people later. Even if someone does build a house or other property, they should know that that route may well be used for a trainline in the future. Best time to do that was 40 years ago, but the second best time to do that is now, to prevent anything else being built and to give people a chance to prepare that things may change in their neighbourhood, or even to their property.
It'll be at least 2 years more. Possibly 4.
I'm so glad to know that there will be a Scarboro subway running when I'm dead.
Fun Fact: The rail sleepers (ties) used on the Melbourne (Australia) Underground Rail Loop are named ‘Toronto Sleepers’ due to their use in their name sake city. They are double ties.
Double-double ties. ;) They're Canadian, after all.
I hope you call them Trono Sleepers, there in Melbun
OMG, FINALLY a video pointing out how insanely large the stations on the york extension were. Every time I mention this, how Downsview Park station, a station with almost the lowest passenger volume of the WHOLE SYSTEM, is this massive unnecessary monstrosity you get tons of people giving the pathetic "but one day it'll need that capacity" or the equally dumb "but fire regulations REQUIRE a station so big you could almost fit Skydome in the hole they dug (yes, I know that's an exageration). Lets go back to how we built Line 2, quick, efficient, spartan and CHEAP. What would you rather have, 40km or subway line with simple small stations, or 10km of subways with monster stations?
Great points!
Even with the massive stations, the TTC got that extension built properly, unlike the never-ending boondoggle of the Eglinton LRT by Metrolinx and various public/private shenanigans.
@ don’t care? Built properly after a ton of wasted money is still a ton of wasted money. We could have had either a much longer line, or much less money spent. Stop with the strawman. One ‘worse’ doesn’t negate one ‘bad’
@@repatch43 How many years of delays and cost overages is the Crosstown at now? It wasn’t a 1-1 comparison. The Crosstown has had objectively worse execution on various metrics. Multiple suppliers always yields such issues, yet we seem stuck with the lie that private partnerships “can do it better”. It’s just another way to funnel public money into private hands.
Lol, but my school is there🤣
i just do not understand how you're not getting more exposure. insanely consistent quality + research, keep it up
Insane quality for a 30k sub channel. You're going to go far, kid
Thanks a lot, glad you enjoyed :)
Excellent video! As an immigrant to this country, it's always good to understand a bit about the history of our city, where did we come from and where we are going. I'm glad to be living at a moment of rapid urban expansion and to be able to experience all the changes.
Honestly having the Ontario Line in place might have a profound impact on the housing situation in Toronto. All of the sudden you’ll have more than half the city freeing up maybe 10-30% of their yearly income that would have gone into living costs for homes within the zone of acceptable commuting time. Imagine all that extra money being spent in our local economy - we would fix so many issues.
Except that the housing prices near the line are already going up before it's finished so nothing is getting freed up.
I think it frees up the roads most of all. The people living here don't need to drive anymore and that's a good thing.
I live by the future Ontario line just north of the Danforth. This won’t make a big difference in commuting time.
Little new housing will be built near it since this area is already full of low density housing.
Housing prices will go up near the line.
@@karagi101 You’re misunderstanding me - It’s about making housing prices in typically commuter-distance living communities more affordable, not the properties directly adjacent to the line. If anything your rent will probably rise, RIP
@@XiangYu94 This line is too central to affect commuter-distant home prices.
And I own my home. So rising house prices benefit me. LOL
As a GTA-er, this video is a fantastic primer for folks on what our transit situation looks like and where it's going. I can't wait to use the Ontario Line when it's up and running.
had not seen a good production like this in a while... thank you. enjoyed it
We really need more high-quality well-researched Canadian content on UA-cam, like this one. Please keep it up, thanks for posting.
“Building the Ontario Line is PRICELESS”
Damn right! We need MORE subway lines already, fewer cars and fewer highways and less money for highways in exchange for more money for rapid transit!
Wow I’m so impressed with you, your research, the accuracy, your narration, the production, all of it. You have a very bright influential future and I can’t wait to see what you do next. Happy to chat anytime
One thing to note, my partner works for one of the contractors the TTC regularly uses for construction, he worked on the Vaughn extension for example and they were hired by Metrolinx for the Ontario line as well. A huge blunder Metrolinx did was, not communicate well enough with the contracters, they were all used to working with the TTC thus they used Toronto-gauge sized railways for the digging and laying track. The Ontario Line does not use Toronto-gauge like the TTC does, to save costs Metrolinx or Ford decided to use standard North American gauge sized railways (meaning they can buy supplies from anywhere in the states as well instead of using the few suppliers the TTC uses). This is fine but it was not communicated so miles of track was laid in Toronto-gauge before someone realized the mistake, and then all the work that was done had to be torn up and re-done. That's all my partner and his team have been doing the past year.
you must be thinking of another project the ontario line hasn’t had any major tunneling underway let alone trackage being laid
I wouldnt be suprised if metrolinx had bad communication. But the Ontario line is years away from laying any track so it can;t have been for this project.
A very comprehensive examination of the challenges of building more public transit in Toronto. Congratulations.
Totally agree, transit is priceless.
Awesome video, really good shots, editing, pace and information. And thanks for the links to advocacy groups. Can’t wait to see more.
Thanks so much for the support - glad to have you around!
The production quality is wild
As someone that grow up in Portugal (Lisbon) and then moved to NYC and also lived the South Florida, when I visit Canada, most specifically Toronto, last year, I was amazed how good the public transportation system was and how much it reminded me of Europe…. It’s definitely not cheap to build but you what else isn’t? Roads. Especially when you drive to Toronto from NJ. The traffic from Niagara Falls to Toronto was awful given the distance and the idea I had from USA roads. Yes, apart of a few cities in the USA, the traffic in that area of Canada was awful and public transportation is the only solution. But I also have to say, once I got to Toronto, it was like being back in Europe. Terrific infrastructure and it was like being home away from home! 💕
this is legit my new favourite channel
Having been born and raised in Toronto - well, Thornhill, but still - but now living in the Southeast US, it's always fun finding new Toronto-based UA-cam channels. Especially when they have great content like this!
I'm so glad I found this channel
glad to have you 🫡
Great video! Dr English is an amazing resource for Toronto as are you. I would love to see a video diving into the Soft Costs and how they can be reduced/mitigated. Keep on keeping on!
Hey, as a local Toronotonian, this was such a fascinating, informative, and well-produced video. Honestly, it was very pleasant to watch it all through!
for real
bro i just found your channel and now i must watch all videos. what an excellent video. 11/10
Really appreciate that, glad you enjoyed :)
You consistently put out great work 👍
Between you and CityNerd, I always feel a bit more confident having conversations with others on urbanism and its impacts.
Thanks for keeping us educated n informed 👍
As someone that's both lived downtown, and commuted downtown, this was an amazing video. You understand transit better than our elected officials.
This was a great well researched video packed with information.
Lot's of missed opportunities over the past 80 years but it's great that it's finally getting built. And the regional connectivity is great, connecting to Exhibition GO and East Harbour GO stations to also relieve pressure from Union Station. This project meshes well with GO expansion, connects with the Eglinton Crosstown, and relieves capacity on Yonge to be able to build the Yonge North Extension.
I love this quote. "One of the terms that you always heard a lot was making evidence-based decisions," says Steve Wickens, a transportation researcher. "And what Metrolinx ended up becoming was an agency that produced decision-based evidence."
One of my favorite books is The Great Society Subway because it covers the history of the DC Metro AND the political environment surrounding it. You are one of my favorite content creators for that same reason. Thank you SO MUCH for doing what you do. It’s truly unique in this space.
Great to see you again - thanks for watching and really glad you enjoyed this one! I'll have to check out that recommendation too
@@TheFlyingMooseCAI just noticed one of the sentences I typed ended with words that made no sense…. I meant to say “thank you for doing what you do”
@@tyleralberico that's funny - I feel like most typos we just gloss over and end up reading the intended meaning anyway 😂
well done bro. Goat urbanist youtuber who is actually watchable and enjoyable, and not just screaming
Hey great video man. As a layman, it was really nice to such an information dense video that flowed smoothly without sounding like a slideshow presentation moving from point to point. Really appreciated how you gave context to behind how metrolinx ended up being responsible our construction projects, especially after the recent news of the finch west lrt
Excellent video! I recall the TO Star did a sting on TTC management. The reporters followed them to work at TTC HQ. Management didn't take the TTC. They all drove! I find the lack of some basic necessities at a busy subway station, for instance a washroom to be incredible.
Great video! Very informative and you did a great job outlining not only how far the costs for these projects have grown but also the city’s need for them.
I go to college in Toronto and I found this video to be really informative and entertaining. Keep up the great work!
Shoutout to the eglinton LRT construction that has now been stopped due to the tracks not aligning in the middle 🙃
Great video. Thank you for your leadership here.
Abandoning the downtown relief line was the biggest mistake in the history of this city. They were afraid of too much development! And what they got is way more development they imagined, but with residents driving cars downtown because streetcars are so slow. A move this dumb should never be forgotten
Rob Ford fighting for subways
BEST MAYOR EVER!
Good journalism. I learned a lot about the city's transit history & future.
Majestic Shawarma shout out is crazy. Gotta get that tomorrow for dinner now lol
I can't quite believe what I've just seen. An exciting video on the TTC.
Bravo, Flying Moose!
keep this production quality up and you're making it big
Thanks!
Subscribed. You are the first UA-cam channel devoted to Toronto transit that has captured the nuances of BS that were Network 2011 (1985), Let's Move (1989) and RTEP (1994). I lived through those plans in real time as a transit nerd just begging for SOMETHING to actually be built. I was a teenager at the start. I was a middle-aged man by the time anything actually happened in the 2000s.
Glad you enjoyed! It must’ve been some kind of frustrating to watch all those plans come and go :/
@@TheFlyingMooseCAit absolutely has been. It’s hard to believe it has taken so long to get the Ontario Line and Eglinton lines
Great video, great production value, hope to see more like this in the future 👍
don't think I've ever commented on a UA-cam video...but.. WOW bravo and well done for this. As a Toronto native who no longer lives there but loves the city, you kept this positive and hopeful which many, and I mean MANY Torontonians could try some time... it's a city that is exploding, changing and has created it's own buzz....all these transport projects are needed, despite any costs and delays...the end results will be worth it Thank you for this 🙏
You should do a video on the nightmare that is the Eglington Line. I'd say do it once the line has been opened but who knows when that will happen
it’s absolutely insane to hear initially the conservatives were pro transit and the ndp and liberals were against funding transit 😊
Well done! Hopefully this can reach the masses
Ryan Goins calling off Jose Bautista to then miss the pop fly still haunts me every single day
Price was on his way to exorcising the playoff demons too 🥲
Kudos to you, this is great work and should be watched by every resident of the GTA to understand the back history as to why we are in the mess we are in. I'm a huge fan of public rail transit and thought I knew a lot about public transit, but this has opened my eyes. How do we make people more aware of these issues?
The new line 3 should connect to do mills on line 4
Yeah, it'd be quite amazing for connectivity. Also improving the value of the Shephard Line. And even stronger relief power to the Yonge Line.
This was impressively well done. Regardless of the subject matter, keep'em coming!
Thank you for giving TTCRiders a shoutout
Least I could do!
Btw another way I think you can relive the pressure from downtown is by having a train go to Richmond Hill center, like there is a subway being built to there rn so it could relieve the pressure a lot I think
This is interesting history! And it shows just how fragile progress can be in public transit. It sounds like planning and scoping needs to be planned right away so that in case money gets available, shovels can be gotten in the ground right away. Feeling these difficulties just across the border!
What an incredible video! Love to see content on the city. Thank you!
I miss Toeonto. Il move back one day
What's interesting is as a tourist visiting Toronto back in September, I can't think of a time when I ran into heavy congestion or meandering detours that made me wish the Ontario Line existed (and yes, I traveled during rush hour). On the flipside, there were several times it would have been incredibly convenient for Line 5 to have been open.
as a European I have to say its very sad to see public transport in North America 😅
Very sad? Care to explain yourself? Why don't you like public transit?
they are just saying that the current state of our public transit is pretty lackluster, which I agree with in most aspects.
@@cmmartti Think they may just mean our transit is not very good compared to theirs
@@faizsyed5528 That may be true, but that's not what was said. However, I can understand how they might have missed a word and meant to say "sad to see the _lack_ of public transit", which is the exact opposite meaning.
I think what they said was short for something more like "sad to see THE STATE OF public transport in North America".
I don't know why,but your voice makes me melt)
another banger, can't wait for ur mtl vid?? 👀👀👀
gonna have to find another long weekend to go 🤓
Loved this video! Great information, delivered with authenticity and personality, and great B-roll and dry humour. Thanks for the great work!
My take away from this video is that it is paramount that the Phillies win back to back world series' if SEPTA is ever going to get more funding in Philadelphia
100% spot on - the fate of septa lies with harper and friends 😂
there has been so much change as a torontonian i had no clue where we even stood. videos like this are so helpfull. thank you!
Living in Toronto all my life, I always have to chuckle when people say it has "good transit". I mean sure, by North American standard perhaps and yes I can agree that it's not terrible, but I don't I can't say that it's "good" without keeping a straight face.
Great video, from research to B-roll to the audio quality. So appreciative that you're advocating for our transit network!!
Glad you enjoyed :)
0:29 so it'll be done by 2041 great
Nah it's already construction it'll be delayed till 2036 at most
Great I’ll be dead by that time
*31
Great video. Toronto has been suffering too long for lack of transit, glad we're starting to catch up.
The best time to build these lines was 40 years ago. The next best time us now.
This is a really great and detailed video on Toronto! Do you think you can do one someday for Calgarys green LRT?
in a nutshell yes I'd love to but oh booooy would that be quite the narrative to cover 😂
@@TheFlyingMooseCAYeah, its really spiralled put of control at this point 😭
Great insights on the history and evolution of Toronto's transit system! Very well delivered!
Here's hoping the Ontario line will indeed be "priceless"
can someone explain the 11:50 thing he was talking about?
Poor money management. An LRT is supposed to be cheaper than building a subway, but it ended up being more expensive.
I'm only at the bit about Transit City but I have to point out one thing that is being missed here. Miller came to the conclusion about it having spent his campaign going across the city and heard massive complaints from the far edges of the city about how hard it was to get anywhere but downtown. So Transit city was designed to address that. If people could go across the top of the city, they wouldn't need to go to Bloor/Yonge. And Transit City did have a subway component - the subway extension to York University. The busway there was built based on the feedback he was getting from students until the subway extension happened. So that's why there wasn't a relief line in the plans.
Now that I've watched the rest, I want to point out the biggest crime about cancelling Transit City. There are still no plans to build a rapid transit line out to Malvern, which was something David was passionate about as Malvern is the poorest area of the city. And now that I live in Scarborough, I get it more than ever. The subway extension here won't help me but thankfully I live near Guildwood station. Those who are farther north of me? Still screwed.
@@MKPiatkowski The biggest crime is that Transit City had no relief line. And Miller knows that but refuses to admit it, which is why he's on twitter bashing the Ontario Line. The Spadina subway extension to York (announced in 2006) was not part of Transit City (2007). Miller was promised over $10 billion for Toronto transit by McGuinty as long as he publicly supported the subway, which he privately had no use for. The city's two biggest priorities by far were a relief line and an SRT replacement. But he spent most of his energy on Eglinton, Sheppard East, and Finch West. Unforgivable.
This video is great.
What a great quality video highlighting things that still need to be worked on intercity while giving relief that much needed change is finally happening.
toronto native here, they've been building another line across eglinton for over a decade and still no news on when that'll ever be completed even though all the infrastructure is already done. it was supposed to be complete in 2013 and has cost over a billion dollars. i'll be very surprised if this ontario line isn't a similar story
2020, not 2013. Eglinton Crosstown didn't start construction until November 2011.
@@sirbobloblaws yeah it was supposed to be completed in 2013, two years for that kind of project should be more than enough time
@@S1mpleThings No chance. Relocating utilities and digging shafts for the tunnel boring machines is two years by itself. They set 2020 as the target date in 2011.
If you are interested in some of the history of urban planning and transit in Toronto, there are a couple of great books on what could've been. Unbuilt Toronto I & II. Comes in Ebook format. Found it in the public library in regular book format. Tells the story of the infrastructure of the city, including the transit system. I also suggest Steve Munros blog.
A correction to the claim that many get wrong: The Prince Edward Viaduct wasn't intended and built to carry a subway, it was for full rail use, specifically the (what is now the CPR), which decided to build their crossing of the Don Valley further north. If one looks at the cross-sectional area that exists for the tunnel size under the viaduct's top level, it becomes obvious that the subway carriage gauge is tiny compared to what the facility was built for.
Great video. I lived in Toronto in the early 90s and was shocked when I came back in 2010 and nothing seemed to have changed much transit wise! They even still used tokens??? It’s been great to see things finally moving the past few years
People loved to praise Rob Ford but the guy was a moron. He didn't even understand the concept of "grade separated".
he was literally filmed smoking crack from a crack pipe and nothing came of it. Shows you the dangers of post amalgamation. All his support came from the 905s.
He understood grade separated! I’m sure he got separated from his grade school classmates a couple of times!
im a minute in, idk this channel, but its very high quality, i hope your channel blows up and that you continue making similar content
I have lived in Toronto for 15 years and have not heard ANYONE ONCE saying Toronto has good transit.
You must have missed the news in 2017 when the TTC won North American transit system of the year.
Only people who have never left Toronto
Masterfully comprehensive! Well done! I especially love how you tie in how the Blue Jays affected the course of rapid transit in TO.
Here's hoping the ontario line isn't going to suffer the Eglinton LRT fate. 4 years overdue and 500mil over budget and still not open.
Edit:
This was a really smooth watch, thank you for lifting the veil on history of Toronto transit! Subbed.
glad you enjoyed! and I know it doesn't inspire much confidence but Mx is a very young agency - hopefully the lessons from Eglinton really do translate into the OL :)
This was an excellent video. Stellar all around. Kudos, TFM. Im happy I found you.
The criticism of TransitCity is very unfair. The original plans weren't over priced. It was the Ford re-vamp into the line 5 "underground LRT" that made it expensive.
Really the worst of both worlds. Well we'll fix it by actually getting a high capacity subway on Shephard.
No, that only delayed the start date. The lawsuits and poor engineering made it expensive. Not having a relief line was what made Transit City a failure. David Miller must never be forgiven for that.
Top quality video - informative, entertaining, with amazing visuals! The amount of time and effort that this must have required 🤯
toronto transit is trash. it's liteally the bare minimum.
Montreal has a better system than them lols
having street cars in a major metropolis in 2024 is asinine and backwater rube behaviour
can't name me one major city that allows street cars to impede traffic on major roads/junctions.
you literally can't.
i predict Torontos economy will crash and burn in 10 years due to the lack of infrastructure for people to move around.
a bunch of back water rubes run our province that only think about vaugahan and suburbs
They probably foresee that coming, which explains why they’re rushing to build transit infrastructure the past few years
WOW! Great video man, I instantly subscribed to your channel after watching this. Keep up the good work!
I've been to over 30 countries, and Toronto's subway system is truly unique. For a subway system, delays are almost expected. What sets Toronto's subway apart is its chronic congestion. I've never experienced anything like it, not even in my travels to African countries. I've never been to North Korea, so I can't say if Toronto's subway could compare, but as a Canadian, I hesitate to compare it to modern transportation systems.😅