Color Expert Q&A - Dr. Chris Bai The future standard for creative color gamut will it be sRGB or P3?
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Q&A with the Color Expert, Dr. Chris Bai | The future standard for creative color gamut! This is a conversation, questions and answers session with BenQ Senior Color Expert, Dr. Chris Bai. He runs the color lab at BenQ and sits on the International Color Consortium (ICC) board. In this Q&A we'll be talking about color gamut standard for pro creative workflow, where we come from, what it is now and what will be in the future. At the core of this is the current standard for photography web and screen export, which is sRGB, for video it is REC 709. However, many of our devices can now show a good coverage of P3, so I like to know, if and when will this become the standard. And if so will Adobe RGB for display still be relevant and for what specific creative user group. Oh and from the thumbnail, see if color gamut talk can be this much fun! Find out more about this in our talk!
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#ColorGamut #AdobeRGB #DisplayP3
![Buying a new monitor? Do you need wide gamut [Adobe98] for great prints?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DQKiJh1MxpE/mqdefault.jpg)
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That's a gem info. out there. so much clarity after watching this video... thank you.
You're very welcome!
Very valuable information. Thank you so much
My pleasure
Great video!!!! I'm a professional image editor for multiple use, traditional press, digital, heat fusion dry toner/inkjet printing and very little web display.
I use Prophoto RGB as my first color space from RAW, a conversion to Adobe RGB for any print, then an sRGB conversion for web.
In my opinion most users don't buy high enough quality displays to edit properly, nor do they control their editing environment. Also most do not understand that a display profile does not change their file. The best scenario us acdisplay gamut wider than any of the gamuts in their destination medias.
Thank You!
Such valuable information in this video, great job explaining it in a very easy to understand way guys!
Thanks so much!
Great discussion!
Thanks
One thing that concerns me is the lack of output file types that scale with future standards, especially with photography. JPG being the 8bit standard and JPEG XL getting killed by Google Chrome is really concerning. Viewing an 8 bit sRGB JPG on a great 10 or 12 bit HDR monitor is not the future I am hoping for!
HDR image export is still in its infancy, we'll see what happens. Adobe is going to be the big power house behind the standard being set. As of now, I agreed, the future is murky.
HDR for photos will not become a mainstream. It's a fun format for geeks. Look at the adoption of ChatGPT - it was almost overnight, same with AI image generators. People are not excited about HDR despite the fact it's been few years already.
Not quite, It may or may not, that is hard to tell as of now. HDR photo preview on HDR displays is the key conversation here for HDR photo. Yes HDR photo has been around for a while but not HDR preview, those are 2 different things. There's an argument to be made that your phone can capture HDR, and is capable of previewing, so why not. You'll never know, it might just slipped in like HDR video.
My main question to Chris would be, why does the calibration process does not account for the balck levels? After calibration a display and working with very dark images, publishing it on Instagram crushes a lot of blacks and it's always a hit or miss process that cannot be visualized. It often happen in print as well. Black and very dark levels until 12% are always crushed on consumer devices
Calibration process does account for dark tones, may be not black per say but darker tones for sure. The keyword here is "Instagram" and any other social sharing services for that matter. They take your image, compressed it further, apply their own color gamut and then display the image out. These services should not be used for color precision or accuracy. They should only be used for entertainment, "social." Not to mentioned that every device that you open the instagram app on will show color differently. As far as print goes, display black usually show way more contrast than print especially for matte and in that situation, so proof sometime helps. At the end of the day, it is backlight vs reflective materials and there are always going to be variations and metamerism.
@@ArtIsRight I understand your perspective. It seems that in today's world, with the majority of images being created for social media, image compression on platforms like Instagram can indeed affect the appearance of blacks and other colors. It's an interesting conundrum, as clients may notice subtle variations in saturation during the editing process, yet the final outcome on social media platforms may not accurately represent these adjustments due to compression.
This situation highlights the challenge of adhering to standards when the viewing conditions and devices can be so varied.
Thanks for the reply, Art!
Thanks for this insightful video ! Unfortunately so few BenQ models support Adobe RGB … even the PD models up to 1000 dollars like PD3205u or PD2725 doesn’t support Adobe !! Only basic sRGB and Rec 709 modes are there. For Photography we need to move to SW series may be which is very expensive. Art what are your thoughts ?
That is by design and this is something that can be seen across the board with other brands as well. SW is a premium not only because of Adobe RGB but also for the hardware calibration feature as well. Both of these are something that PD does not have and very few other brands and models have them.
Hi Art, great video there. Could I ask a question for Dr. Chris through you..?
There's been a long standing debate on sRGB. We, meaning end-user, generally encode the sRGB image with the piece-wise EOTF but there's no consensus/understanding on the display side of things. For display, pure power gamma 2.2 or piece-wise function? Which of those are more appropriate for use today?
Here's Chris reply:
This is a very good question indeed. The best scenario is to match the monitor to the content. So in your case, the monitor should be calibrated to the piece-wise EOTF. The reason why we usually calibrate our monitors to gamma 2.2 is that from legacy, gamma 2.2 gives the distinguish grayscale. So if the content is unknown, this will be the best option. But if you know the gamma curve, then it is best to match the two gamma curves.
Primera vez en UA-cam que hablan correctamente de teoría del color aplicada en hardware. En mi país llevo años tratando de explicar esto como profesor hace 10 años y esa es la manera correcta de decirlo, debido a la ignorancia de mi país y la zona por desgracia pocos pueden aplicar estos conocimientos.
Well this channel is the resources for the correct set of information!
Very valuable information 💪🏼
Glad to hear that!
Quite a learning , Thanks 🙏🕊
👍🏼
Great video! We need more such videos.
Sorry my question is not related to this video. In my country it just got announced that BenQ is launching the PD-UA series...
BenQ PD2705UA 27-inch Ergo Arm 4K Monitor to be specific.
Do you reckon there would be a substantial difference between the two? Was going to purchase the PD2725u in a few days...now I am confused
A big thank you for patiently answering our questions
PD2725U is still the top of the line flagship compared to the PD2706UA or even PD2705UA. You have the better display with Thunderbolt connection that can do daisy chain. So no sweat!
As an animation cel collector, I would like to see the Rec2020 gamut monitor happenning because 25% of the acrylic paint used exceeded the AdobeRGB gamut.
I hear you, but we are way far away from that happening. There are some right now that claim REC2020 coverage, but many of those specs are bogus at best.
Be aware that some pro labs with specify a given colour space - as their production software is not profile aware - and if you supply in the wrong space it will give very poor results. Also you might find some labs, even if they print with wider gamut inkjets, they will constrain the colour space so that prints from all printers will colour match. So it is very important to follow your lab’s requirements.
Also the ICC system is slightly flawed as it was originally set up for print industry, and the amount of light hitting the finished print is much higher than domestic settings - and that coupled with the extreme brightness of displays mean that often you’ll get prints from a lab that are too dark for domestic homes. If this occurs the solution is to darken your monitor! Most people set their monitor to 140cdm2 - my lab has found 120cdm2 for the rooms we work in. The brighter your workroom, the brighter your screen should be…..
Our recommendation for display brightness when printing is 80-120 nits depending on the users and condition. There are so many resources on this channel about color management and control!
I use panel native for my edit colour space in Photoshop and Capture One. Curious how this relates to the thought of Adobe RGB 1998 as the edit space discussed in the video. After editing I then convert a copy to Adobe RGB or SRGB depending on the output needs. Is it still a valid way to go or am I better off using Adobe RGB from the start? thanks
Panel native on SW display is Adobe RGB but slightly larger. Also you are still using Adobe RGB ua-cam.com/video/Gu1nqEf8vzg/v-deo.html Your workflow is fine.
interesting talk
👍🏼
This is great
Thanks
Amazing episode!! Great job!
Thanks
@@ArtIsRight Will you be doing more of such interviews? It would be awesome if you ran a podcast on the topic and go much much deeper (PhD level!) 🤓
There's one more but that is about it. It is so niche and the audience is small.
@@ArtIsRight Too bad :( Art, how is that a niche when there is an entire industry build around it?
Industry yes but discussion about these things in the pro / consumer level is niche. People care more about TV than computer display than color gamut / display tech discussion until they need to do research to know about it. Creatives, most of them don't care about the displays tech, gamut, etc, until they are going to buy one and even then most are not tech people and don't care about these things long-term. Many of them don't even know the line up / display model they have. Nothing wrong with that just that people who really care about this are niche.
Hello, I have a BenQ SW 321C monitor, I wanted to buy Mac Mini M2 Pro for myself, but read that they are not compatible, please tell me what to do? Thank you!
They are compatible. Not sure where you got that information from but I would not trust that source every again.
@@ArtIsRight Sorry more questions can not be asked?
Sure
Quick question here. How often should you calibrate your monitor? I normally calibrate my monitor every few months.
The standard is 4 weeks, but from my experience it doesn't hurt to calibrate before every major assignment. Depending on the panel and room temperatures you might not need to calibrate for months or years.
2 to 4 weeks is the recommended time frame. Or before big projects.
All display drift regardless of tech, quality, etc. It is just a function of time and deterioration. You might not see it but if you want precise, frequent calibration is key.
Hello my friend
We want to compare icc files
ScRGB.icc
And
prophoto.icc
On the Horseshoe 1976
Thank you very much
Good luck
You can compare that.
@@ArtIsRight
file space
ScRGB. icc
Larger than all other display color spaces on Horseshoe 1976:
1. Adobe RGB (1998) color space ICC International Color Consortium profile
2. Apple RGB color space ICC profile
3. CIE RGB color space ICC profile
4. ColorMatch RGB color space ICC profile
5 . ECI-RGB. icc color space ICC profile
6 . ISO 22028-2 ROM RGB color space ICC profile
7 . ProPhoto RGB color space ICC profile
8 . Adobe Wide Gamut RGB color space ICC profile
9 . eciRGB v2 color space ICC profile
10 . SRGB IEC61966-2.1 color space ICM profile
So here would be a question:
Can we say that the screen rendering file is called ScRGB.icc
Is the best choice for displaying CMYK color sorts and for displaying photographic colors or not?
You are referencing CIE 1976 it is a revised CIE XYZ that was created in early 1930 when CIE was formed. CIE 1976 is the bases for color today but useless for daily creative work.
Best choice for display CMYK gamut is Adobe RGB not sRGB. And ScRGB is not a standard that is being used widely, I would not use it for anything. Displays are not calibrated for it, there's no point. It is an obsolete gamut at this point.