The $25,000 Challenge: BMW E46 M3 vs. Ford Fiesta ST
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- The BMW E46 M3 is regarded as one of the best drivers cars of all time, and they can now be had for under $25,000. In our opinion, the Ford Fiesta ST is the best new car you can buy for under $25,000. So, which is better? We hit the canyons with both to find out.
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You're one of the only guys in car journalism brave enough to expose the myth that cars with better numbers are always faster on real roads. Everything you said is spot on, especially the part about amateurs rarely being skilled enough to extract any of the extra performance that higher-caliber cars have. That's why in real life you see guys in $10k rice-rockets eating up Porches and Corvettes in the mountains as often as you see the reverse.
Not spot on at all.
+CasterTown your right , its how you drive the car. Most people wouldn't come close to using the full power in some of these cars. Thats why a well balanced car is way better for street driving and practicality. Ive owned 500 whp cars before and had way more fun in cars that were way less fast.
You're an idiot +Joe Smith (Cell)
Just bought an 03 M3 six speed manual with 68k miles for $15k So damn happy.
+Brad Thomas That is the best price ever!!!.... or its a convertible. Either way, congrats on the car! But now that you have seen this, are you having massive buyer's remorse on not getting a Fiesta ST??? :-)
+Brad Thomas make sure you look at having the rear subframe reinforced. Enjoy your new ride! I'm currently looking to replace my e46 325i
Wow great price! Congrats!
+Albert Ayars It's a coupe. Thanks.
+Brad Thomas Congratulation man. That is a great deal especially on an always desirable 6speed MT.
Fast forward 10 years... The m3 is worth $5k more, the fiesta is worth $15k less
But performance stays the same
no mate.... no mate BMW pisses all over the cheap mans little ford
In fairytale pomme land maybe mate. Sure it may be a smidge faste running the 1/4 mile or though a decreasing radius turn, but straight 6s make no torque. When I gotta jump in front of a pack of cars waiting at a red for some schmuck to turn that torque from the little fwd st pisses over everybody...including that m3 aboutta cause an accident.
C
Performance potential is higher with the M3.
"BMW drivers."
"My Audi s4."
Lolwut? Audi drivers are the most pugnacious, self absorbed, inferiority complex having people on the road....
Kyle Simon among audis i see the kidney grills having the urge to kiss my rearbumper all the time in traffic.
That's probably because you keep break checking people.
Kyle Simon nah bro, its cause i only go 10 miles above the limit which is still too slow for these bimmers.
Kyle Simon i dont know which country you speak of but in my country bmw drivers and vw golf drivers are the worst kind of drivers you can find on the road. its like they have the urge to prove that their car can go fast and shit (althoug idk why golf drivers worship that car so much) and only put themselves and other people in danger
North west America here. Where I love having an Audi is a status symbol. So when the rich guys give their rich kids their old S4. Those same kids throw a douche exhaust on it. Douche body kit and go race the kids who drive vw golfs who are jealous of them
For being rich.
People who drive bummers where I'm from are either older people, or it's an e46 m3 on a trailer headed south to the racetrack.
But the E46 is SOOOOO Sexy.
It's timeless! It's one of the best looking BMWs ever made. I had to wait for the E60 to grow on me, but with the E46 it was love at first sight. You have to forgive some chassis problems, though.
This is the most BMW butt hurting comments I've ever seen on a video.
I love how people are trying to compare this Fiesta to Ken Block's rally Fiesta. Not the best to compare since they are so different.
But as for the video, it would be a tough call for me. But I love the E46 so I couldn't complain. Fiesta definitely has miata syndrome in my eyes (aside from the FWD) it feels fast and it's fun.
Funny thing to that is you can look up ken blocks build for all three of his fiestas, other than change in drive train, upgraded internals and bigger turbo. they are the same car, both built out of the same block that comes with the car. One of his fiestas is also still a naturally aspirated and has no turbo on it. Parts are cheaper and easier to find for the fiesta. insurance is less. And with light upgrades it could beat an M3. others have built these to handle 300 hp with stock internals and slight mods, they have beaten muscle cars and older imports, such as a supra. But hey to each their own. They are both good cars, but you can compare the two because ken blocks' shows the potential these tiny cars have.
@@jrmaguire8218 he still has lightweight bodies and reinforced frames
Cracks me up that people think Matt's in the tank with Ford. He's not the only one who thinks the Fiesta ST is incredible. Pretty much every automotive journalist does. Be thankful that high performance is coming in small affordable packages, folks. This used to be a rich man's game.
Who would want a fiesta over a m3, I wouldn't, and I don't think a single person I could ask would either
+v Clev (vClev) I could easily have afforded either...guess what? -- I bought the Fiesta.
+Mealyman 94 the e46 m3 goes for less than what he said
Mealyman 94 what a guy u are
Mealyman 94 going for the more expensive shittier car
A lot of butt hurt people in this comment section. Can't take the fact a "little ford" can compete with the beloved M3. The fiesta is a fucking blast.
I am going to drive one today! I drove the focus but it's too expansive haha so going to try the fiesta :)
I like the Focus ST better, but to each their own.
You have a vagina
It's literally garbage on wheels
Alex Hall Fiesta or BMW?:)
After having read all the comments I cannot be "quiet" anymore because I really cannot understand why some of you are bashing around so much against the Fiesta ST.
So, I've posessed and driven a lot of cars and - as being german, so as having every day experience on driving on no-limit-motorways (yes, it's allowed to go faster than 300 km/h if your car permits it) - really am able to say a lot about having fun behind the steering wheel. Some cars I got were the Porsche 944 S2 (211 hp), Mini Cooper John Cooper Works (R56; 211 hp), BMW M3 (E36 and E46; 286 hp and 343 hp), Porsche 911 (993; 280 PS), BMW Z3 Coupé (193 hp), Renault Clio RS Phase II (179 hp but only 900 kg), Mini Cooper Clubman S (R56, 174 hp), Ford Focus ST (250 hp), BMW 123d (204 hp), BMW 130i (265 hp), BMW Z4 Coupé (265 hp), Lancia Delta Integrale (212 hp), Ford Focus RS (315 hp).
After having seen such a lot of reviews of british, american, austrialian, german, french, spain, italian car magazines which nearly ALL conclude in having SUCH a lot of fun with the Fiesta ST, I tried about more than 6 months finding one to drive for some hours. At least - it really was not easy to find one - they gave me one with 182 hp in red and I went out for my first drive on german b-roads. What to say? I really could not believe it, but the fun the car brought me was not comparible to any other car I had driven before. Yes, the Fiesta ST may not be the fastest but on my favourite b-roads you don't notice this and - more important - it's completely not important. The car simply does all I want it to do and does it every time.
I must say that no other car suceeded leaving me with this smile on my face during the hole time of the test drive. I could not believe it but it was - really - so much fun that I could have spent days in this little car.
Some of you write that it's not a "real" car and that you could not compare a Fiesta to an BMW M3, but - for me - the only thing that counts is the fun I have behind the steering wheel, completely independent to size, brand, styling or status the car delivers.
If yout put all the cars, I've ever driven, in a row and let me choose only one, I'd go - believe it or not - for the Fiesta ST!!
Yes, it's not the most beautiful car, yes, the material's quality at the inside could be much better, yes, it may not be the most potential car and may not have as much style or status as a BMW, Mercedes or Porsche and a lot of "yeses" more, but the only thing that counts and the only thing that I have to admit is the smiling on my face and - for me, that's a fact - referring to this, the Fiesta ST left me completely happy.
So happy that some days ago I selled 3 of my acutal cars and went for the brand new Fiesta ST200 which hits me end of august 2016.
Wow interesting to hear... And what about a focus rs mk2 vs fiesta St? That's what I'd like to know. Both cars seem very good!
I know you posted this two years ago, but how does it compare to the R56 JCW? I've got one of those now and on paper they seem very similar
What I don't like about them, why I consider them a joke, is front wheel drive. They have that unmistakable fwd feel. My perspective is that there is a certain limit a fwd car can go to before it becomes a joke, and the Fiesta goes screaming past that limit defiantly, rather than Ford building a light fast car worth owning.
Having driven both of these fairly extensively, this is a rare occasion where I disagree with Matt; it's not just drifting, its how you feel centered vs flung around corners AND being able to drift.
Perspectives differ, but I will always take slower, balanced and fun rwd over silly and fast fwd for the purity of the drive.
You sold panty-droppers for a jelly bean lmaooo
I honestly would take the Fiesta any day. It's probably going to be my next car purchase. Such a fun little car.
iPod connectivity can be had for $250. All navigation systems suck, you end up using gmaps anyway, and for voice prompts, see previous point.
As for the douchebags, this is a valid point. On the other hand, all cars cost a lot of money to maintain and it isn't like Ford is generous with their warranty coverage. Anyway, a well sorted M3 beats anything it its price range by a huge margin, stock.
Source: I have owned two e46 M3s, and current have an e39 M5. We have a Focus ST for the wife. Great car, but certainly not an M car.
Anyone who taints the Original Lines of a car's interior for Ipod connectivity or Navigation should be shot.. If it isn't OEM...it doesn't belong
Texarmageddon As an 80's Porsche owner, i disagree, Updating to a modern pioneer deck with bluetooth is the best ever. No tape deck adapter getting in the way of my shifter.
A Motorola Roadster works pretty well for $60.
Gratz on the E39 M5, I love mine.
i mean if you buy a sports car, i dont see why you cant drive aggressively. So long as you dont truly endanger other drivers you shouldnt be seen as a dbag.
so this m3 beats the 5.0 used under 22 grand? i dont think so haha
It's amazing that sports cars have progressed this much in 12 years. Imagine in 2002 if someone said a Fiesta would be as fun as an M3. Now cars like the 2014 M3 are faster than the exotics of 2002.
They had the Focus SVT back then. Didn't have as much power but it was hella fun to drive.
I've owned BMW's for over fifteen years. My last was an E36 M3 with a Bilstein PSS-9 coil over suspension, Turner sway bars, Mehle control arms, Rogue Engineering rear control arms, camber plates, etc. I tracked it many times at Watkins Glen, Lime Rock, and Loudon. It was great fun. Excellent torque, brakes, handling, and stability. I now own a Fiesta ST. It has excellent torque, brakes, handling, and stability, and is an absolute blast to drive. Mine weighs a little over 2600 pounds, and has about the same power to weight ratio as the original E30 M3. I didn't upgrade to an E46 for two reasons: 1) the E36 was too much fun and 2) E36 and E46 require lots of maintenance to keep them going now. I'm tired of lying under a car. The FiST should hold up well for five years or so, and then I'll sell it to some kid who wants to have fun with an extremely nimble and tossable ride.
Yo it looks like it’s been a little over 5 years haha. Still got the FiST?? I’d love to be that kid.
you dont need a nav, phone and shit when you have a sweet inline 6 with 330 hp
No kidding! I dont like all that crap in my cars. Guess thats why it took me a while to find a 335xi with out it.
eggsactly!
David Scraggs
333* :P
LMAO yeah 333hp
How, just HOW is this even a comparison? I mean, seriously? I thought maybe it's april fools vid or something.
This is a joke... Oh, and "I'd rather be driving a car that feels fast rather than one that is fast." What!?
Toni Džaja dont be a baby.
I'm being realistic.
Toni Džaja Oh no how dare someone have a different opinion to you! The treachery!
Liam Parkinson What I said was not an opinion, it's facts.
Toni Džaja They probably should have waited at put the Focus RS up against a comparable M3. Both are made in Germany, though.
The BMW was 11 years old and worth $25,000. Nice. I will buy that same Fiesta 11 years from now at a dealer-only auction for right around $1400 and turn around and sell it on one of my lots for "maybe" $2800 best-case-scenario. And that's ONLY if it's been taken care of... but then people who can only afford to buy the cheap, new cars (like this Fiesta) aren't exactly known for their skills in taking care of their cars. So I have very low expectations for the Fiesta to still be in as good of condition as the BMW is at 11 years old.
Not the st bruh
yeah you apparently missed the maintenance there in your calculation...
Average costs per year to repair a BMW over 5 years old.
BMW 535i $13,250
BMW 750Li $21,500
BMW 328xi Wagon $10,000
BMW 328i Convertible $11,750
BMW X3 (3.0) $10,250
yeah... I think I will stick to my Ford.
Tom Brooks your numbers are bull crap. You read a magazine. Good for you. I go on real life experience. As I've owned ford, chevy, pontiac, honda, nissan, mercury, and bmw. My gm, fords and derivatives, and bmw have all been great cars. I've spent far less on repairs on my used m3 than my used 2004 cobra. The tranny went out on the cobra at 55k miles. I bought it with 50k. I bought the m3 with 178k miles on it from the original owner. Btw, it still has the original clutch. Never seen that on any car i've owned previously.
Huss Ali ROFL... didn't know people still said, "bruh". HAAAAAHAHHHAHAA!
04KBSVT So go by word of mouth on a forum of someone called "04KBSVT" or go by a reputable institution like consumer reports? Seriously? Is that suppose to be a hard question or something?
If you write the ST off, you have never driven one.
m3 will keep its price much much better than this fiesta...
but the fiesta is cheaper to own...
***** Considering all that's required to keep the warranty...
-Paid regular checkups
-Often sooner than necessary part replacement
(book says change it, we change it)
-Authorized services only (2-3 times regular labor charge)
-Manufacturer parts only (OEM brakes' price can equal entry brembo set)
It might not.
***** there is actually a law that says you do not have to have the dealer do the maintenance to keep your warranty. Despite this law being on the books many people believe the misconception that the dealer is the only place you can take your car during the warranty.
Em, maybe where you come from ;)
Don't want to be rude, just here in Poland such disclaimers in warranties are allowed.
***** What even after you take 15 grand extra depreciation into account?
"Reving it out isn`t really a adventure" Maybe your M3 was fucked up but there arent many cars where reving out is more of an "adventure" then in a S54 Engine when it hits 8000 rpm redline.
But have you ever driven one?
Banging through the gears is fun but it's a completely different experience and most people wouldn't enjoy it, the engine is so smooth that many people would find it dull compared to a turbo car. The M3 doesn't feel like you are going fast whereas the fiesta makes you feel like you are flying because of the nippy turbo engine. I love my M3 but can see why a lot of people might not enjoy the power delivery.
i own one also.
MPowerE36 Right so you should understand exactly why it's sometimes criticised.
Hate to break it ti you, but these new fords are amazing. I actually just sold my e36 m3 track car and im about to trade my 6spd e90 for a new focus st. Ive been a very loyal bmw fan for the past 5 years, and still am. But i really fell in ove with how much fun these cars are.
Caleb Potter e46 is more fun though, no matter what they say. Its a fwd, small displacement turbo, basically a civic.
Is this video some kinda joke? A BMW E46 M3 vs Ford Fiesta ST?!!! It does not matter what you put under the bonnet, or how much you kit the car out, the Ford Fiesta ST will always be a piece of shit.
written by someone who has obviously never driven a Fiesta ST
Steve Klein You're right i haven't because it's a Ford and i think they are shit.
GrimeGenie well you're clearly an idiot aren't you.
You`re absolutely right. I had the chance to drive both cars. M3 is a tough car, super super fun to drive and I really enjoyed every millisecond of my driving. It was so hard to return the key to the owner. On the other hand, fiesta :)) to be honest it was much better than my expectations, but it just makes you smile, thats all. There is only one point I would consider If I was planning to buy one of them, fiesta is brand new, if there is a problem, warranty covers it, but buying M3 is a risky purchase, anytime anything might happen. (today I just paid $1250 to change the clutch for my car which I bought last month)
Yuu Tuub definitely the e46 m3 is a rough purchase. Most of them have been heavily abused and not properly maintained. The s54 is not a Daily drivers friend. Yet its a legendary car that will never be forgotten. The fiesta, yeah its a shitty car but thats its charm. You wont feel as bad if you total a fiesta compared to a good quality e46 m3.
I love Ford, But really a Fiesta over an M3? Not even a question to ask!
shoulda compared the focus RS instead. Too bad it's Euro only
crephotos
I know I love that car!
These are..... these are quite possibly some of the funniest comments I've ever read.
TheSmokingTire should just review two incomparable cars just to get a rise out of people.
Could we see the F12 Berlinetta vs the Golf Gti, next?
I wasn't saying I disagree with the comparison, but judging by peoples reactions to this funny, it would be comical to see how they would react toward a video that consists of such an asinine comparison.
I completely agree with you on the "driveability" factor.. Useable power vs power you can only utilize on a track. I might actually consider a Fiesta after seeing this video. Looks like it would be a really fun daily driver and extremely low cost of ownership.
There is no way that ANY FWD car can ever be better than a good rwd car.. EVER..
You have obviously never driven either of them.
Stuart Campbell If it's that obvious to you that I've never driven a fwd or rwd car, than you're terribly imperceptive. Because I've driven plenty of both.. FWD, and RWD. Even mid-engine RWD, owned several MR2's, turbo and N/A.. Never driven an AWD though.
Face it dude, FWD is for people who don't know how to control a car.
I was talking about the cars...
***** I know plenty fool!! Fwd is for efficient, safe, family and entry level cars, with plenty of understeer to keep people who don't know how to drive from killing themselves... How many TRUE high performance cars do you know of with FWD? that's right, NONE..
bliglum Focus RS FWD and high performance car 305Hp
You could have a valid argument for each of these cars, spin it to your opinions in a variety of ways. You can't argue that the E46 M3 is a legend and a revered sports coupe. The Fiesta ST is a hot hatch which has much newer tech and is fun to drive. It comes down to personal opinion. So in a couple years when the E90 M3 is around 25,000 grand, let's grab this Fiesta ST and do a test on those two.
Thank you for properly calling it a "sports COUPE", as it is NOT a "sports car" like all of the sycophant, worshiping fanboyzz on here label it.
Oh first gen Mr2!
twinkle twinkle mr2
Haha that shameless plug!
I knew you would be here !!!
You would.
They have that factory rust lightening at no extra charge.
not CSL wheels, they are Apex Arc 8.
Those are csl wheels they came on the competition bmws its those colors and lines
@@davidpineda645 nah dude those are arc 8s
@@anthonychavez4554 Bmw never made anything arc 8 these are the csl wheels matt farah isnt dumb also
@@davidpineda645 bro those are literally arc 8s i have the same wheels. Csl wheels dont have a deep dish and csl wheels also have the little M logo
apex wheels. they look like shit
Americans finally discovered hot hatchbacks...only 30 years after the rest of the world, but at least it finally happened and you now realize that they're not pieces of shit just because they small. These are two typical German cars (yes, Fiesta is 100% German, so is the Focus ST its big brother) that are great to drive. But this is still a comparison of a car more than 10 years old to a brand new car.... and if you know anything about hot hatches, you know how fast they are even compared to NEW sports car. Just consider the fact that some hot hatches such as Renault Megane RS and Seat Leon FR have 265 and 280hp respectively, are FWD, and are faster around the track than pretty much every 400hp+ RWD sports car on the market, Porshces, Astons, Jaguars, Mercs, BMW's included...faster than BMW M3 E92, faster than the 1M, faster than C63 AMG, faster than Porsche Boxter S, faster than Nissan 370Z Nismo, etc. FWD cars when done properly (and the french do it best) can be more fun to drive than any other layout. Why? Simply because they can be trashed like no other layout and you always have full control. The only thing they cant do is powerslides. They can still drift and let their back sides slide, but obviously no donuts or powerslides. Other than that, they're sharper, more responsive, they can put power to the ground VERY WELL at the corner exit with limited slip diffs, and you never have to worry about the rear end going out when you dont want to, and even if it does, its much easier to correct it, even when your slip angle is extreme, close to 90 degrees, you can still easily save it. That way you can really trash the car with confidence, whereas in a RWD car you always have that fear in the back of your mind that the rear end might snap and you'll wrap yourself around the tree.
And since this is an american channel, and most people who comment here are americans, I will dismiss any reply as irrelevant because I'm 100% that not a single one of you ever laid their hands on a hot hatchback. (or an M3 for that matter)
Im not picking shit. just curious. how is the fiesta ST and focus ST german? I know they were developed by SVT and I'm sure it wasn't done in the states, but where did you see it was done in germany?
Lap times may be comparable, but driving a FWD Renault or a Spanish Golf will never equal the driving experience of an RWD M3, Boxster S, Aston DB9, C63, or 370Z.
Also, where's proof that you've driven either? "I will dismiss any reply as irrelevant because I'm 100% that not a single one of you ever laid their hands on a hot hatchback. (or an M3 for that matter)"
Hypocritical much?
The US Fiesta's are made in Mexico. It's too bad the 2015 Subaru WRX's will not be available in a hatchback. I was going to look into buying one. I now have a new Fiesta ST in my garage instead.
Dude you are seething with animosity... and generalizing to the point where its just ugly. Lets face it "hot hotches" didnt get fast until recent years. Yes the US is just starting to get them, but there are many that have coveted European compacts for awhile.
***** Uh dude...I'm not denying that RWD sports cars are the same price. M3s are obviously more expensive than some Renault. Well why not a BRZ, FR-S, 86, or Miata? Also, it's pretty obvious that RWD cars are more fun to drive, with simulators and such.
I don't know what to say.. either he's being paid by Ford or he's just too American... IT'S A M3 E46 AND A FORD FIESTA AND HE LIKES THE FIESTA.... im done
Go drive a fiesta st. then you will know how good it really is.
TheMeChaNic55 its the Fiesta ST is really a good car.. its comfortable very good gas mileage and still fast due its light weight, and its not 10 years old and beaten by 21 year old douchebags making the bmw very unreliable.
DevasionX ***** I understand your guys point but there's just something I like about the Bmw way more than the ford, and it doesn't really have to do with the reliability or age, if something small breaks down i'll fix it myself and if its something major, well it doesn't really matter because you would know that you drove a piece of Bmw history, and even if it is major like the engine, I could rebouild it for like S3000 and i'll have a way nicer car that can be driven for a long time
TheMeChaNic55 the problem is: its a used bmw, 318i's will be in good shape but bigger engined version like the 325i and 330i are guaranteed bought and/or used by trashy high school boys who have beaten the value out of it and probably pooly maintained it since they have no more money than they had to buy the vehicle. Big engines attract idiotics and posers, you'd probably disagree but I talk from my experience from my school where bmw's are shredding around to impress only to hear some times later the cars are damaged or even total loss by blown engine or transmssion problems worn tires suspension ect, or simply wrecked it.
Drive a fiesta before you talk or stfu
reading a lot of these comments, I see what he means about bmw owners being dbags.
True xD
hahah! said!
you are a dbag ;) search your name on google and you see =))
This is a terrible comparison.I don't care what point you were trying to make. If you owned a beautiful E46 this is very close to an insult to have it compared to a (gag) Ford Fiesta. Say whatever you want, but I'm not driving that or your minivan
funny thing is most of these hate comments driven neither the bmw or the fiesta st and they're just hating just to hate even though they have no fucking idea what the fuck they're mad about
Just the idea of buying a car called "Fiesta" should make a car guy puke! Would a computer guy buy a laptop called "Piniata"?
cristiandemirel1918 Only if it's an Asus. You can beat those up pretty good and they still work
Martin Espinoza:)))
cristiandemirel1918 NOPE
cristiandemirel1918 And I think a "car guy" should be a little more open minded and try the car before making judgements. If he doesn't I just call him an ignorant.
Mojo To be fair, every _prior_ Ford Fiesta was a complete turdbucket.
The problem for me is just look at the ST.... I don't think I would find myself walking into the garage at night just to look at it. Probably have to keep the lights off until I got in so I wouldn't see what it looks like.
That;s because it's the 5 door, for some reason Ford decided Americans only want a 5 door model? The rest of us, me included, get to buy the 3 door that looks a LOT better IMO. It's a great looking car, but it can be a bit marmite with some people. Still, feel sorry for America not getting a 3 door hot hatch.
Да маректологи вообще уроды! Решают все за людей.
I would still get the BMW it just looks amazing.
its not only about the looks. the BMW on this video is faster , safer(in case of accident), handles better, and u can drift,that lil ford st has no chance in road against that BMW it will just eat it...that dude has no clue what hes talkin about
, he even calls fun driving that lil thing compared to that BMW just LOOOL
im pretty sure he never steped the pedal to floor
. BMW's needs a skilled driver to bring out its full potetional not some fat ass dude who is afraid to go past 150km/h in a turn
erion matrako I know it's not only about the looks. I'm just stating my opinion. I know that the BMW will crush the Ford on the track.
I have never driven the Ford St but will give them their props. They've really stepped up in recent years and do build fun cars.
I now own an M3 e92 but owned an e46 non-m for 10 years and a mk2 gti before that.
I know exactly what he's saying. Exactly. The m3 I drive now is stupid fast. Like I'm over the speed limit in first gear before I even hit the redline. As amazing as the car is, I do miss my gti which has similar proportions and characteristics as this more modern Ford. Its intangible but that car "felt" fast and handled firm and tight. The m3 would destroy it but for day to street driving and spirited jaunts around town or in the burbs it was an absolute blast to drive. The e46 and e92 m3 didn't give you the same sense of urgency. Its hard to describe but it's faster than it feels and at times I honestly wish it felt faster than it was.
The reality is I'll never get to see how maniacal the m3 can be until I wind it up at the track. Matt hit the nail on the head here. I enjoyed my gti every f-ing time I turned over that gutless 105 HP engine. The gearing was all short and close together. If I needed to hit 200km/h there was no chance. But pinning it on highway or day to day was a joy. The m will land me in jail before I even hear it revving.
It is something you can't describe unless you drive such a car. The fiesta and focus st remind me of the gti and I totally get why someone would buy them.
amin.
Lazar Bim
Well said Lazar. For me though, just due to quality differences, BMW, (or just about any import for that matter), all the way. North American vehicles are WAY too over priced for their quality. Based on quality alone, the Ford Fiesta ST should only be worth $15000, not $25000.
I bought an '05 330xi for just under $25,000 a few years ago. Buddies at work keep bugging me that I must be raking in the dough to own a BMW, saying this while driving their rapidly depreciating pick-up that they paid $50,000+ for. Foolish people. Even if I dumped another 20-30 grand into this thing over the years for maintenance I'd still have ten times the vehicle they do! Not to mention maintenance costs on North American vehicles are rapidly rising, narrowing the gap in this respect as well.
The "M" letter is not just an "m"... it's an ICON, something special, much more unique than ANYTHING!
relax buddy
Goran Gagic
I am relaxed, I just don't understand thinking of some people, M3 is a car fo REAL men.
n8neiTen8n Dude chill out, nobody cares is it "men" stuff :DDDD
***** It's not car's or company fault that sometimes d-bags buys it. Remember that also good guys are driving BMWs.
*****
Good for you :)
LOL only Americans would be so deluded to even have the balls to compare a Ford Fiesta to an E46 M3.
Why would anybody buy an American car is beyond my capacity.
***** People say to me that I defend and love the M3 just because I have one, but it is the other way around xd. Have you ever driven one?
I mean, REALLY??? There's people that'd trade their daddy-E46 for a freaking Ford Fiesta ST?? The ford's not a bad car and it's pretty fast and "rabbitty", but, REALLY?!??!
***** You buy a good 04' M3 E46 CLS in alpine white, I'll buy a 7th gen Fiesta ST and we'll trade. How about that?
I bought my M3 in metallic blue and painted it white after stripping all the M3 emblems: It looks like a normal 04' 3-series (mind the exhausts hehe), so it wasn't for _status_. I bought it for the engine, the brakes, the handling and the _feel_ .
Having said all that, I wouldn't buy a modern BWM either. That's why I'll never sell mine.
The same could be said for an E46 M3? The vanos unit can fail potentially causing engine failure, the rear subframe can rip itself out of the car, the rod bearings can be an issue too on the early cars, the various cooling system components made from plastic randomly fail leaving you stranded, thrust arm bushing failure, control arm bushings, window regulators, throttle actuator, etc, etc. The myth of reliable Bmw's makes me laugh, they drive well but the quality is below average in compared to almost anything. If this car was made by an American manufacturer you'd be ripping on it for its low quality and being expensive to maintain, but because it's a BMW M3 it's the second coming of Jesus in he form of a car.
***** still better than anything produced in the US
After reading all of your "arguments", I'm gonna sell my M3 and buy me a *FORD FIESTA ST*
LOL
I dont hate the ST. But in my opinion the M3 is way better and a lot more fun and can also be used as a daily driver. You don't always have to be a madman with it. The M3 looks better and sounds better than the ST in my opinion. You can easily find an M3 like this for 15K or less. My cousin bought 1 used for 9K with not too many miles on it and it runs great. They are also reliable and you don't have to "sell an organ" when something does go wrong because they are not difficult to repair. Also i driven the ST and when i floored it, i smirked and was thinking this thing is fast, But when i floored the M3, it just brought the biggest smile out of me. Also the "M" is not is not just a normal M, its a icon and something very unique and very special. I actually heard a joke about the ST saying it stand for Sanitary Towel. But yea anyways if it was me who had the money and had to choose between the M3 or ST, i would buy the M3 in a heartbeat. The M3 is just the better car in my opinion.
I think you're the only person I have ever seen that understands what vehicle preference is.
You cannot get a decent milage E46 M3 for 9K. Did your cousins have an engine?
yea it did but i think the front bumper was damaged so i think thts y he got it cheap
DaChosenOne2468
It mustve had serious mileage. like 180k or more. or it was a salvage title.
blues3531 Im not sure how much milage was on it but i kno it was not more than 120K. Also the title was fine. But he did say the front bumper was damaged and he had to get a new one so 12K with the new bumper. Either my cousin is good at negotiating or the seller was not in his senses and did not kno wat the car was worth. Its in great shape! i recently drove it cuz he let me and sounds healthy and the body is in great condition.
I would prefer the M3, but I've had the chance to drive a Focus ST, and that car was brilliant to drive. If the Fiesta is just as good, I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing it over the E46, especially at this price point.
The Fiesta ST drives even better then the Focus ST, but the Focus is a little better as an everyday car, as it is more practical, especially if you buy the Focus ST Wagon ;)
Isaac Permentier
True.
'The fiesta is a fast car'
'Ten years on the BMW doesn't feel that fast'
HA! What a load of rubbish!!
lol hes talking about the powerband of each car.... turbo inline 4 1.6 produces the power in the low end. Where as the s54 3.2 n/a produces all power at the topend and is not to useable daily driving.
Mikolo Guns yeah because if you want a cruiser you need thet powerband so that the boy racers won't have to shift evry often
Mikolo Guns s54 produces all the power at the top end?
Yeah all 333hp, how much does the little fiesta produce when in it's power/laggy-boost-band?
Sorry but at any given time in the power bands you're getting much more hp with the M.
The fiesta's 4 banger is made to be driven flat (which may be fun) out because it has no balls, you have to respect the s54 on the other hand (which is also fun if you can drive well and test the limits) .
Lastly, I leave you with a couple words: DONUTS. DRIFTING. BURNOUTS.
Lol, all really very fun things, all things a fiesta is incapable of performing.
M3 is made for faster track times not a car for donut/drifting.
Dosalt How do you get made for track times out of a sedan with a big trunk and 4 seats..
It's a fast sports car which can set track times but b/c of a LSD and RWD can do as many donuts and drift as many corners as it's heart desires.
you do not need all of these fancy gadgets in a E46 M3, LMAO #bimmer
Holy shit I would take the M3 without a question... Even in terms of an investment the e46 will probably be worth something in the future.
Too many of them to be special, except maybe the CSL
Its just an M3, while i love them. There is nothing too special about them.
ownTer its just an m3? tell that to the e30
E46 M3s are not really "under $25k"... they are actually quite easily found in good running ondition for under $15k. $12-15k will get you a solid E46 M3.
good running condition for a few months. Not something that will last much longer than a year or two with hard daily driving without spending too much money given that 12-15k will come with about 120,000+ miles and if youre going to buy one that costs that much, id say you might not be willing to spend all of the money to keep it spot on with maintenance. That is just a thought idk though
I don't care HOW MUCH plastic SHIT you bolt onto a Fiesta... IT'S STILL A FIESTA...
So many unnecessary haters in the motoring scenes... just let the guy enjoy and film some damn cars!
Driving feel in EU Fords is just superb imo. They have something I can't put my finger on. It just feels like it wants to turn, every car I drove after that, even more expensive ones, didn't feel even close to what most Fords do for fraction of the cost. Suspension setup is just great, feedback you get when driving is unparalleled for the cost, and how you feel the limits of the grip when you push it hard. It's predictable and that makes it great fun to drive if you ask me.
I'm a big fan of Beemers, but like I said driving feel and feedback you get in Fords is right up there with best of beemers if not better in some cases.
M3 hands down. One of the most beautiful cars I've ever seen IMO.
#Ford vs. #BMW LOL
Take this. They compare Corvette vs. Ferrari lol.
A Ford GT would smash any BMW. I don't think comparing brands is unfair, comparing a $25,000 fiesta to an $50,000 M3 was.
I'm just screwing around. My ford stock is up !
Ben Brix
I think it's more of a comparison of what you can get for the money. You know new vs used. A 25000 new or a 25000 old car. I work on chevy's but my $10000 bmw m3 e46 is better then any new chevy I've worked on.At $10 it's a better buy then a $30k camaro that would be in the same power range. That's a example of a better buy for the money. Why buy new and comprise when you can spend less and still get something very good albeit slightly older.
Ben Brix even a mustang would smoke any bmw
Who the fuck would buy a Ford Fiesta instead of 3.2l 6 cylinder BMW M3 E46 ?
people who values their hard earned money and have an idea about cars lol
People who prefer a new car over a 10 yr old car? o_O Are you a robot?
Someone who doesn't want to deal with or cannot afford the maintenance.
only idiots would choose a fiesta over an m3. (if money was not a factor)
I had many cars in mind before buying my Fiesta like e36 M3, e46 M3, Impreza, MX5, Swift Sport, SLK 230K, S2000, Megane 3 rs. But let's focus on the E46.
The first question that came to my mind is: Can i afford to drive it? And the answer is no. You can get them at the same price as the fiesta but then comes everything else. Gas mileage is better on the fiesta, insurance is cheaper, maintenance is cheaper. E46 looks better but I don't really care about that. I don't care about the Brand either. The fiesta is obviously slower than any M3 but it doesn't matter, I don't need to be faster than any one, I just want a car that is fun to drive. And the Fiesta is definitely fun.
Sorry but this was a bit cringeworthy. The BM looks, sounds, and performs better, and will hold its value a hell of a lot better than a Ford. I've owned both Fords and BMWs (and various Japanese turbos) and would pick the M3 over the Fiesta any day of the week. RWD is much more fun than FWD, gives better feedback, and helps the balance. It's true that FWD is better in snow (I had a Z3M for a while and it was useless in snow) but I'd have RWD/4WD over FWD any time.
I'm currently driving a modified fairly new E93 M3, and it sounds and performs incredibly well. There's little better than the sound of a big V8 revving to 8k RPM through a titanium exhaust with race cats. Swap it for a Fiesta with less than half the power and that will also lose 50% of its value in a couple of years?! Don't make me laugh!
except when its new its two times the cost as the fiesta...
Michael Murphy four times :P
lol
You get what you pay for :)
I don't think you've tried driving a Z3 in snow dude. Believe me, I've been driving for over 20 years, I've passed my advanced driving course, and also qualified to drive all types of truck+trailer combinations, and I've had a LOT of cars (and bikes) in that time. FWD is usually better in snow because the wheels are pulling instead of pushing, which tends to keep the car straighter on ice, and the weight of the engine is over the front wheels (in most cars).
That's the big problem with the Z3, it has too little weight on the back - ask anyone who's owned one. Mine was fun to hoon around in, as it was easy to drift any time I liked, but that same tendency doesn't help in snow. I live on a hill, and the car wouldn't even move 1cm in snow, no matter how much I babied it. We don't tend to use snow tyres in the UK as we don't get much snow - just a lot of rain. The only car I've had that I can remember being as bad was a TVR Cerbera 4.5, about 8 years ago. Best car I've had for snow was a Mitsubishi GTO TT (4WD).
Currently have a 2 year old M3 V8 with Evolve supercharger conversion (around 650bhp), and it's "ok" in snow, but obviously easy to lose traction even with traction control on...
Ford definitely did something right with the ST lineup. You EU guys been enjoying this. Us US drivers are just now experiencing this. SVT need to give all of their future project to ST guys lol. Europeans definitely know how to make a fwd car turn!
wow.. the fiesta is one ugly car
I seriously feel bad for all the close minded keyoard warriors in the comments section. My father owns an e46 m3 and it's one of the most involving and overall best cars i've ever driven. But the Fiesta ST seems like a pure fun machine i would wanna thrash the hell out of on these Ozark backroads. Great video!
**keyboard
Ford will depreciate way faster, if you wanna sell both cars after 3 years, you will get way more of your money back selling BMW
That's a stupid way to buy a car. Buy with your heart instead.
Hans Akrok I agree
Yes and no. Yes you'll probably sell the car for more (since it's already done most of its depreciation), but no because you'll almost certainly have to replace something on the M3 and, as he said in the video, it's going to cost you a pretty penny. Overall, you're probably going to be spending more money maintaining the M3 than the depreciation of the Fiesta.
That said, like Hans Akrok said, you really should buy with your heart. If you can get an M3 in great condition and you test drive it and find out that it's awesome to drive and love it, then get it. Just don't get it thinking that it'll be better on your wallet in the long run, because you're (probably) going to have a bad time.
This video compares overall performance, etc... who gives a shit about long term value? If you're going to state an arguement then at least keep to the topic. This 'depreciation' arguement always comes up whenever someone compares 2 cars to each other. Does this make any sense to you?
I bet you have stocks and shares too right? Constantly worry about the value of your home and positive and negative equity?
The little fiesta is a stunning little car but for me it has to be the older M3. When you buy an older performance car especially one from a big car maker like BMW in effect what you're getting is a very expensive highly engineered performance car, in some cases the very best that that company could produce, the benefit of millions of pounds of uncompromised developmental budget, thanks to the beauty of depreciation, all for a fraction of its original cost. In the UK where cars depreciate even more than in the US the point is made even stronger. For example The new Fiesta ST is around £18000 but you can buy a 2003 E46 BMW M3 for around £6000! For me that is quite simply a 'no-brainer'. Older high performance sports car over a new price equivalent... Older car wins hands down!
...having said that the ST does look very fresh and very 'bang up to date'. It's a very nice car but in 2 years time the Fiesta will be worth (in the UK) HALF what it's currently worth now but the BMW on the other hand, well that's already lost the majority of its depreciation so that's still going to be not to far of the price you bought it for , maybe a £1000 or so less. So from an investment point of view the M3 scores another victory.
/Dream Car Garage 1 (DCG1) I
Fuck the Fiesta. I would hate myself if I somehow bought that awkward looking, fwd, overly firm, and lower quality hatch over an e46 m3.
***** strongly preferring an m3 over a fiesta makes me less than a hipster?
the E46 is like eating at an expensive steakhouse - the Fiesta is like a cold mcdouble -
2020 and the M3 continues to go up in value while the Fiesta is falling down faster than its plastic interior starts rattling
Youve clearly not driven one! Cant be a true enthusiast
Well you know what they say about used German cars (especially performance versions): "If you couldn't afford it when it was new, then you can't afford the maintenance on it when it's used".
Not true at all
I've got an E36 M3 and I love it to tears. It was abused by its previous owner, and it still runs like a charm for me. These cars are durable.Yes, they cost a lot to fix, but it's okay, because they don't break very often.
I came here for the whiny comments from BMW owners. So easily butthurt. So easily owned by a badge.
same thing with audi and anything else. I´m a BMW owner and I´m not whining at all :)
they may both handle good but the bmws a better car, u dont gotta sell organs if you know how to work on em
M series parts are quite a bit costlier. But as with any machine: maintain it like it's the last car you're going to own and you shouldn't ever have to replace anything major.
If I only had one car and it was a e46 M3.....I'd ride the city bus to work to keep that baby pristine.
More than 10 years have passed and the BMW is worth still more than newer cars such as the Fiesta. BMW's are made with quality. Newer cars are not. They're not built to last. If you don't believe me, go drive any newer Japanese, American, Chinese car then drive an old German engineered one and tell me you don't feel a difference.
I live in Germany. Old German cars fall apart just like american or japanese. They are more expensive to fix BECAUSE they are "German engineered" Making shit more complicated doesnt make it better. Get off your high horse. The days of German manufacturing superiority are well and gone. Everything is pretty close now when you compare the real (not base model, 15k, no option) cars.
Michael Dodds He didn't say he was German, he said he lived there.
Value is meaningless you can get a 97 Nissan 300zx twin turbo for like 10 grand and it still is faster than the e46 M3!
I am not German. But I know many who feel the same way. The Germans have a habit of over engineering things and making them too complicated. Case in point, the Audi S4s with the 4.2. Timing chains? Yeah that ends up being 5-6 grand and dropping the motor when the retainers go bad.
Aspie Otaku
300zx doesn't compare without LOTS of work on the suspension and brakes... also the acceleration is not nearly as strong.
I think this comparison, as an M3 owner, is moderating annoying for a couple reasons:
1) The overarching reason given for preferring the fiesta is you can have more fun with it at more reasonable speeds. Which may indeed by true. But, that's not an argument against the M3-- that's an argument for the fiesta over EVERY semi modern sports car. Corvettes, GT3s, ferarris, whatever-- all of them are less exciting when driven at semi reasonable speeds than a fiesta.
2) Complaints about the S54B32 not having torque at low RPM. That's not just writing off the M3, that's writing off miatas, S2000s, BRZs, lotuses, GT3s, every non turbo M (other than the e39), ferraris, etc. Having to work over the engine to get the most of it is part of the experience that makes the car involving. Yes, it's slower if you leave it in high gear. So, heal toe downshift and be fast! If you make a list of the best drivers cars, 90% of them have that type of engine, exactly because it makes the more involving to drive.
3) Tech/side bolstering. Nav, bluetooth, and iPod interface (Matt's 3 specific complaints) were all factory options. All can be easily retrofitted today. Adjustable side bolstering was also available. My car has all of the above :P
4) Long term cost. Since 5 years was mentioned, let's go from that. In 5 years time, the Fiesta will have depreciated $10-15,000. The M3 will likely be worth the same as it is today, or close to it. Repairs to the Fiesta will be free, because of the warranty. But will repairs to the M3 cost $10-$15,000? VERY unlikely.
5) Did he actually say that the only benefit of rwd is drifting? Umm...
RWD's superiority has nothing to do with drifting.
But drifting has everything to do with RWD's superiority.
Who cares about drifting? Nobody with a brain. Therefore drifting doesn't factor into why RWD is better.
You don't understand. Never mind.
TheArfdog lol, Drifiting is an essential part of driving a manual car, at least if you wanna have fun that it, and not drive it like a sissy automatic. you better kick that clutch as swing that son'ava once in a while
*cough* ford commercial *cough* ford paid for this *cough*
sorry i got a weird cough
I have wanted an M3 E46 for years but after watching this and driving the ST I decided the ST was the go for an everyday driver. Just picked a black one up today and it is pure fun in the Gold Coast hinterland (AU). Thanks for this video as it provided me the info to make a the right choice at this point in time.
Hey Matt,
How has it treated you? Thinking of getting one as my next car
m3 anyday. the maintenance might be more but the depreciation on the fiesta will offset that.
I'm a little tired of the BMW drivers are douche bags argument, while I agree some are, every brand particularly Audi drivers may be taking the reigns on douscheness
Having owned the very same BMW, I'd go with the Fiesta over the used German. After 6 Bimmers in a row, I got sick of all the service issues, and bought a Boss 302. Thank goodness the BMW's were all under warranty. I'm looking forward to what FoMoCo can do with the S550 as I consider my next car.
This is kind of a stupid comparison video from the start a 2011 generation car vs a 2001. However there is a old saying with german cars, "Drive them till right before the warranty expires and then resell them fast." that being said if you know how to do the work yourself proper care and monitoring will probably never leave your bmw in the shop. I've brought six up to 150k miles before selling with absolutely no major problems. Now I have two track use bmw's that have never had a problem in their rough use life. As far as the boss 302 goes, that kind of switch makes me think your comparing eco bmw's vs sports cars.
My assumption is that you have no idea about cars, and every time you hear a noise you run to the dealer to "get it fixed". And the Stealer "fixes you good..."
BTW my daily driver is a 20 year old bimmer. The car has never let me down even though where i live the weather changes from -35C in winter to 35C in summer....
muiecyrus Surely you can't mean me? I've owned over 30 cars over the past 30 years and wrenched on most of them when I had the time, but as far as I'm concerned, 16 damaged rims over two years, Repeatedly flat, run flats, 3 injector failures, 2 warranted fuel rail replacements, unfixable electronic gremlins, leaky roofs, and cars that go into limp home mode are issues, I would rather not deal with out of warranty. What did you own before the Bimmer, a Chevy? ;-)
If you fixed your own car, you wouldn't care about service. Learn to fix your own car then start complaining. Also don't Bimmers and expect maintenance to be cheap. I have one and I love it.
Stephen Morgan
Are you serious? You say that bimmers are unreliable and you start your argument with "16 damaged rims over two years, Repeatedly flat,run flats...." How can someone take your opinion serious? You are just laughable.
The fact that you changed 4 sets of rims in two years, means that there is obviously something wrong with your driving style and not the car....
The rest that you mention are probably flaws of the models in question. But guess what?! No car is perfect! Every car has it's problems.
The thing with BMW is that it's a premium sport car which comes with a premium maintenance cost. It's obvious that you have to service it more often than a regular Honda ,for example, but that doesn't mean it's less reliable.
"Thank goodness the BMW's were all under warranty"
This clearly shows that you don't have the money to own a premium car, if you think like that. End of line, if you don't afford it, don't buy it. Simple as that....
Also, you throw shit at this premium company and legendary M cars and than you buy a ford mustang called BOSS?! Just LOL....
Chevy sarcasm?! No, i have never owned American cars. Only European and a couple of Japanese....
Fiesta ST for the goddamned win. Drive one.
I test drove the ST yesterday. if you love cars, you owe it to yourself to test drive one (i own an F30 335i msport)
I just found a 1-Owner, Race Red, fully loaded ST for only $11k. I'm gonna go test drive it this week... :-)
@@1970borntorun Like it?
@@bakersmileyface It sold unfortunately, but I just found a 2011 G37xS that are awesome cars too. Not to mention, rear-wheel drive dynamics which are preferable to FWD for a Sports Car Purist.
@@1970borntorun I've always preferred FWD.
RWD are more fun, but FWD are more precise. More competitive.
Especially since I do stage driving whenever I can afford it. On gravel a FWD is just infinitely better than a RWD.
Of course nothing beats an AWD in which case I tend to have more power on the back than in the front, about 60:40
But I'm glad you found a car you like.
@@bakersmileyface Yeah, you're right. Both can be fun in the right context/environment. Just like how Audiophiles have the endless Tube/Solid State debate or Analog vs Digital... :)
Heh...one day, driving on I35 in Austin, TX, some dude in a an ST thought he'd have some fun with me in my 335i... Boy did he get a wake up call when he disappeared in my rear view mirror.
cool bro, I had a fbo 335i on e85 that I got rid of and purchased a brand new focus ST. I can tell you I have much more fun driving the ST every day.
Mikolo Guns Good for you manard. I'll stick with my e93.
matreyia Not until your turbos go, along with the waterpump, injectors, then the valvestem seals... you get my drift. Don't get me wrong both great cars, n54 rwd machine preforms better no doubt, just not as fun everyday and breaks a good amount even with the utmost care and then even with diy repairs it still its costly as fuck!
Mikolo Guns That's why I got a 6 yr 100k warranty. You'd have to be clueless to drive one out of warranty. Germans should learn maintenance from the Japanese and the Japanese should learn luxury and performance from the Germans. They ain't for everyone. But neither are Porsches and Italian super cars. If you don't have the dough, then don't play. Otherwise don't complain about the price of owning one.
matreyia I had the warranty bro.. Coilpacks and spark plugs are a few things I did on my own as well as changing fluids multiple times in BMW's intervals. Its just the fact the car had to spend so much time at the dealer when I wish I could have been driving it. Just felt like the car wasn't great for everyday driving which im using as a comparison. I had to worry about things breaking instead of having fun... Thats why I'd never buy a used one again mind you the one I bought had only 50k and was immaculate inside and out.
"when anything in a BMW breaks, it's 1500 dollars"
this guy must read UA-cam comments
specifically UA-cam comments
MiSkateage That’s why you have to make sure that you make enough money to make repairs
$1500.00 is a very conservative number...I have been in the dealer automotive service business for 35 years and I have never seen failures (EXPENSIVE failures, at ridiculously low mileage, in fact.) in any other make I have worked for. My advice to anyone who must have 6 Roundels on the outside to show up their friends is to lease for three years, then turn it in. With the exception of having to re-tire the car before you turn it in, you will be better off in the long run.
You can literally build a forged engine for the fiesta excluding bigger turbo for 1500 lol
the #1 thing you have to understand is that you're not REALLY getting the BMW for only $22k... From my past experiences, it's so much more than that. BMWs drink fuel like college kids drink Svedka at a frat party, and insurance is super high, when something breaks it costs what seems infinite amounts to repair. $22k is just the beginning. Going to trade in my '08 BMW 528i for a brand new Fiesta ST because I would have to pay $12k through BMW to repair its problems.
25k for a 10 year old used car tthats been beat to shit with no warranty... sounds like fun
LMAO, everyone's so mad. The best part is that 90% of you haven't driven the m3 or the Fiesta ST, myself included. It's ignorant to believe a fwd car can't handle better than something that's rwd especially when the fwd car has 11 more years of research and development put into it. It's time for some of you kids to grow up and celebrate the fact that were getting these sweet hot hatches in north america. There's nothing wrong with more options.
Great comparo. Everyone seems to put BMW on a pedastool and/or are uneducated as to how hard Ford worked to make the Fiesta ST the best in it's class. Forget what most of these kids are saying, keep these reviews coming because the real car enthusiasts appreciate this fresh approach.
Seems like people don't get this!
Tst is comparing the two cars that happened to be at the same price.
The answer to "which to buy?" like they said is whatever fits your life style. Understand he is not straight out comparing both cars.
+Oscar Ortiz : Come on man. The Fiesta value will drop like a stone while the M3 cannot get lower much more.
+2Phast4Rocket I beg to differ. true the bmw price wont go lower, but the little ST might be a future classic.
yeah, a dodge fan just said that, deal with it.
Betting on a car being a future classic is like gambling, you are betting on the probability of an outcome. The probability of the Fiesta being a classic is very low in my book, but it has probability.
+Lucky Lex What has 'premium' got to do with fun?
+Lucky Lex thats just between your ears... premium doesnt always mean more fun... GT86 would be more fun.
how much is ford paying you to do this video?
25k for a e46 m3? You got bamboozled.
I bought a Fiesta ST a week ago, my other "car guy" friends have all doubted me until I let them drive it. Now most of them are trying to figure out how to sell their current cars to buy a Fiesta ST. Am I saying there's no room for a German classic with the drive wheels in the right place? No No No... Don't have a place for a weekend car right now, I needed a good daily driver, and I wanted something fun as well. The thing with the Fiesta ST is it's really 2 cars. I can drive it below 2,000rpm and get first generation Prius milage out of the thing, or I can keep the thing in the boost where it's just so much fun all the time. I would agree with the statement at the end of this video, at this point a 10 year old BMW (or any German sports car) is a good weekend car. The Fiesta ST is a great daily driver, a week in at least.
after all the reviews I've seen on the ST....I ended up buying a 2016. loving it. I also love the e46's..
Me too man, such a fun car.
M3 for life!
i just doubt a fiesta comes close to the M3.
It's about how much fun you have in car rather than rwd vs fwd, it's a beamer brah, or how it looks.
With the E46 M3 being one of my favorite cars, I do agree that you can perhaps have more fun in the Fiesta ST on the road and will be able to use it more. Very different cars, but I can definitely see what Matt is trying to say here. Great video.
To all the fanboys, I think the point of this video was to compare two cars, a choice between a brand new, 25k Ford Fiesta, or an older, more powerful BMW e46.
I don't think Matt was on fords side he was being bold and honest. I've owned a E46 M3 and get what he is saying. Can't deny new cars now a days especially ST Fiesta or Focus are great bang for the buck new cars. Its great to have options new or used.
Nice try Ford PR team.
Bald Kiwi really? soooo Jeremy Clarkson and top gear, chris harris, every motoring magazine are all paid by ford because they have liked a car that's this badass under 25k? EVERYONE has been saying what matt said about the fiesta homie.
KalKing03 save your breath man I was just playin
its weird how time can change your perspective on a video. 2 years ago i watched this praising for the m3 to win because i loved that car. today after driving the fiesta, im watching this hopping the fiesta wins...
Arthur Vico Bratislava Effect mate
It's the Classic, David & Goliath Story ;)
I would purposely wrap a Fiesta around a telephone pole because it's trash. How can you compare it to an E46. tsk tsk.
BMW elitism.
The chances are the you'd wrap the M3 around a telephone pole...
Lovely cars, I'm fairly sure i can extract more of the Fiesta more of the time, unlike most M3 owners ;)
no zareff
Apples to oranges to me. Tell you what though... I test drove a Fiesta ST recently... it's a blast. Love to have both of these babies in the garage. Bimmer for weekend trips and get togethers. The Fiesta for commuting with its killer mpgs and the smile factor. The Fiesta WILL make you feel like a kid again... lots of high revving fun.
SOOOOOOO MANY BMW nutswingers here. Dear lord. Matt could throw a review that was 1996 328i vs Corvette C7 and people would be like "durrr hurrr I'd never by a Chevy!!" Use logic- and not fanboy logic.
RWD or AWD or GTFOH.
Turbo or not. MANUAL for the win. Deal with it "comfortable" "crappy paddle" "technology" hungry hipsters.
the RWD vs AWD vs FWD thing is fucking pointless.
yfw the Cobalt destroyed RWDs and AWDs
Cobalt SS: 8:22
Cayman: 8:25
Lancer Evo XII: 8:25
350Z: 8:26
where is your god now?
rack and pinion > power/by-wire
raw pedal braided steel lines > abs
>not using a computer, to lean the most difficult driving mastery. instead of letting it do the work for you.
>shooting yourself in the foot
>you just said you need a computer to help you driving
shame.
looking like a fucking idiot for skimming through someone's comment and trying to put words in their face, but tripping along the way.
a double-negative did not live anywhere within that previous comment.
I wouldn't piss on that Fiesta if it was on fire
the fiesta is supposed to be a small car but is the same fucking size as the BMW
Proportions. They play tricks on your eyes. Look at current Minis, they are huge, but they seem small. Big headlights, rounded body panels, all make it seem like that car is smaller than it actually is
also the same size as an s2000
That's the four door. The two door model is much smaller.
xilix no its not, all modern cars are too big and ugly, the 2 door is absolutely no exception
The two door is smaller than the four door.
Matt and TST crew, after hearing your last podcast I felt compelled to comment on this topic. I loved the review. Most car guys can/do/will compare all cars within their budget and these were two cars on my list of cars to consider. I recently sold a Gen-1 CTS-V because it wasn't raw enough and the limits were too high for public roads. To keep this short, I thought your review was unbiased and spot on when explaining the differences between the two cars and when you would recommend buying one vehicle over the other.
Is this a fucking Joke ? A FWD Car that is faster in Corners as a RWD Car ? Never ever ! This Guy just cant drive.
Hockenheim Short.
E46 M3
fastestlaps.com/cars/bmw_m3_e46.html
1:16.30
Ford Fiesta ST 2005
fastestlaps.com/cars/ford_fiesta_st.html
1:23.30
fastestlaps.com/cars/ford_fiesta_st_2013.html
Ford Fiesta ST 2013
1:20.46
And that's just a little Track !
mikesanto70
*LOL* the only Thing that this 20000 Pound Big Burger American know is cruising in the Grand Valley with his fat Ass Audi with ESP, ABS etc. I'm from Germany, i grow up with BMW and Trunk Roads, Allée etc i know any Corner and any Hill in this Area. And the Track Times proof that the E46 M3 is faster in any Way, and that Mr.Burger can't drive RWD.
REALSlutHunter The chassis of the ST was developed in Germany much like yourself. It's not RWD, I get that, but the ST is a nice car. I've autocross'd a couple cars (granted not an E46) and my ST can perform nicely alongside the boosted or supercharged mx-5's and the vetts. Granted on a formal track I have no doubt I'd get left behind on the straights, but in the corners it handles nice, and it's got enough torque compared to it's weight to get out of the corner quickly. You should probably go test drive an ST prior to dismissing it, it's miles away from a stock Fiesta.
--
Keep Hunting them Sluts.
Geoff Sutton
Yeah it has good Handling for a FWD, but when you drive the E46 M3 in the Right Way, the E46 M3 is even in Corners (except very sharp and slow Corners) Way faster, it has more stability, a longer Wheelbase, a bigger Wheel Track.
I just Beat this Weekend a Fiat 500 Abarth with his 30 Years newer Technolgy, Wide Range Turbo, ABS, Traction Conrol etc etc with my old E30 325 (i dont have ABS, my E30 was a 320 Years Ago) the Abarth Understeered to much, it was no Problem for my old Stock Six Row with 60/40 Koni Suspension, M-Tech II Kit, 215/40/17 Nokian Z G2 Tyres, closed 3.73 Diff and Rev Limiter @ 7500.
Understeering, that's the Problem, from all this FWD Cars, when they have to much HP and Accelerate outside from a Corner.
REALSlutHunter hahaha, that's all you needed to say, ''I'm from Germany''
Yes the E46 will eat this car's lunch for sure it should not have been a comparison!!
Every repair on the BMW is $1500? Learn to turn a wrench.
bmw e46 m3 one the best drivers cars ever made lets compare it to a fiesta
Sorry but I can never accept a FWD as a fun car.
Because... If you push it, it will start spinning the front wheel shifting the weights to the rear and lighten the front. Giving a slower getaway.
Then when you push hard into a turn, it will always understeer first.
Finally, if you choose to amp up the power on engine, the two effects above gets worse.
RWD gets the opposite effect, so it just gets better.. Push harder at the start, more weight goes to rear giving more traction for faster take off. Push hard into corners, the rear starts to loose traction giving a tighter turn in. Amp up the power, and you'll get a better take off and car oversteers more readily.
It will not understeer into a turn if you trail brake correctly.
Scandinavian flick, lift-off oversteer, it's all fun. Take a series 3 Clio RS200 for a spin and see what you think. No torque steer, no understeer, will beat a wrx around a tight track (Motor magazine comparo). No trail braking required. In fact, no braking required. Point, accelerate, steer. Fun !
There is no Renault Clio in USA. :-(
peter wyatt middleton. I know what you mean, and I hate that type of driving. It feels like I'm holding back the available power because front wheels are out of grip.
FWD is fine, until you dont go above ~300hp and have a well balanced one, with short wheelbase and then do the usual mods.For example CRX. It handels 100x better, is more sportive and does the faster Lap time then a SLK 200 or 320 E46.
Why I say that? because i owned them.
I made it 1 minute in... A ford fiesta is not as fun as a e46 m3 ... I honestly can't believe I even had to say it.... That's just fuckin bananas
Bananas!!!!
5:20 most people don't buy the e46 m3 for gadgets , they buy it for what the gas pedal does and the song the exhaust plays ,and its timeless styling ... Yes I'm one of "those BMW guys"
OK, test this Fiesta POS when it hits 75,000 miles on the odometer and see whats left of it at that mileage. This will fall apart for sure.
Much like the BMW at that mileage, unless either have been well maintained.
clarkinthedark1 Hell no, We've had an e39 1999 and an e34 and they never broke down and both had over 150k miles. I have no idea what you're talking about.
I had a Fiesta which merrily went to 120,000 miles without even needing the timing belt changing - and I bought one of these! The best thing about Fords, when they do go wrong, is the parts (and the labour to fit them) is so much cheaper.
The ST is fundamentally a cheap to run, exciting, happy little car with an incredible engine and marvellously set up chassis. Even my daily commute leaves me with a smile on my face, which I didn't get when I recently drove a BMW. (before the ST arrived)
Horses for courses though...
Christopher Woods It depends what you like I guess, I would always choose a sturdy German car over some cheap rubbish from America.
The Fiesta ST, at least for markets outside the US, is made in Germany. Mine came from Cologne - engine made at FoMoCo's Welsh plant.
LOL You sounded like George Costanza at 7:53 "There is NO WAY that front wheel drive is better, Jerry! NO WAY!"