G'day all, thank you all for your honest feedback, I really do appreciate it. Unfortunately, it appears I was not clear in this video about the issue I occasionally run into. 1. I do not hold down the shutter for 5 seconds, this was purely to demonstrate the hard buffer. 2. I only occasionally run into the issue if shooting BIF or lots of action. 3. The hard buffer occurs due to the accumulation of photos over many short bursts, not one continuous burst. 4. When I do occasionally hit the buffer and miss a shot it is very frustrating. 5. Sony, Nikon etc have a solution I wish Canon used so on the odd occasion I do hit the buffer I don't miss a shot. 6. This video was to hopefully get Canon to update the way the buffer works for those who are impacted. I do apologise if I came across entitled and unreasonable, it was not my intention. Thanks again for all the feedback. Cheers, Duade
Yiu were very clear in your explanation of the issue. And in my opinion you didn’t cone across entitled at all. As a professional photographer this is a major issue for you as it effects you while working. I’m not a professional, but as a serious hobbiest this issue drives me crazy.
As a software dev, I'm pretty sure the hard stop is a software limitation. Camera operating systems are arcane and complex. Japanese corporations are shy of taking risks to fix fundamental flaws in their architecture. Sony did a rewrite after the A7R2. Not being a Canon person, I'm not sure if they have done the same at any point.
With some brief comms with the dev support about DPP, I’d agree it’s software limited. I’ll bring it back on topic as DPP is in desperate need of a rewrite imo for macOS. Canan should just offer a buffer setting, 1) full FPS (like they have now) 2 full then slower FPS (the Sony example) and lastly 3) Auto, a combination of the 2 (the Nikon implementation). Default setting Auto imo
As a software developer myself, I agree with you. I think rewriting the buffer algorithm to be cyclic or free up space as images are written, carries some risk and Canon must be averse to taking such risk with these low level parts of their software. Or perhaps they just don’t see it as a priority to devote resources to as it doesn’t translate to a sexy new feature on the spec sheet.
Great explanation man. I figured this out 3 years ago. I switched to the Nikon Z8 and Fuji XH2. The Z8 RAW files are 45Mb and the XH2 are 83Mb in size. I was still continuing to run into this issue at first. Then I discovered with the Fuji, and in some cases the Z8, CARDS matter. The best card brands are all advertising similar speeds. Memory cards also have different internal buffer performance on the cards themselves. CFX 4.0 cards are the best in all cases. The Z8 performs the best using 4.0 cards. Writing to just the CFX card using both RAW and Jpeg is actually faster than writing RAW to the CFX and Jpeg to the SD card. Keep up the good work man.
Awesome video as always mate! Totally agree with you that this is a huge issue for bird photographers! And don't even think about trying to switch between photos and video while buffer is still clearing! I've had R5 just freeze up for almost 30 seconds when doing that and then you literally miss everything :(
Thanks mate, yes, would be nice to have an option similar to Sony/Nikon. I must admit the R52 is pretty good and the R1 much better but when it does happen it is very annoying. The video buffer is odd, hoping they fix it going forward. Wishing you the best for 2025. Cheers, Duade
I have the Nikon Z9 and when shooting 20 fps, RAW, there is counter in the EVF and monitor that shows a count down to zero when internal buffer is reached.I do have a Delkin Black Diamond CF Express type B card that reads 1750Mbs and writes 1540Mbs, ( I believe these are the numbers,) which are incredibly fast and clears the buffer rapidly. The buffer countdown will display an increasing count available as the buffer clears.
Got the camera early and this has affected me once. I haven’t come across a scenario where I need to shoot for 10 seconds at 20f/s. I shoot sport & nature too.
I shoot Nikon. Sony buffer handling looks to be the preferred one. On my Z8 I shoot Cfexpres 1700 mb/s and have never reached the buffer. The amount of pictures is shockingly high. I was shooting peligrine falcons eating their prey in the air. I get pictures I never saw before. We are blessed with this technology so I agree with you. Thx for sharing.
I've defintiely reached the buffer when there's a long bit of action, but all that does is slow the FPS down to a rate that the camera can clear and then resumes. . . .only issue I've found is the Z8 hardlocking or (when shooting in slightly warm weather) the "Hot Card" warning.
Clear, concise and very informative. What appears to be a software issue is clearly resolvable in different ways [Nikon and Sony] did not think that the way you communicated this was an issue at all. Love your videos. Keep up the great work 👍🏻
I had the Sony a7r3 and that was a buffering nightmare. When you reached the limit which was pretty quick, it would take almost 2 minutes to write down the buffer. The camera was frozen. You couldn't access menus while writing
The hard buffer was a major reason for me to move from the Canon R5 to the Nikon Z8. Missing action shots was pretty annoying but the not being able to record video was incredibly frustrating. By the time the buffer had cleared the action or the moment was well and truly going. On the Z8 I don't have that problem. I hope canon resolves the hard buffer one day as that will fix one major flaw in my opinion.
@@redauwg911 The canon is at 30fps. The Z8 is at 20fps. If you drop the Canon to 20fps it probably has no issues with buffer or atleast plenty deep enough to not be an issue. Even at 30 it seems very usable still in almost all situations. But there is no alternative or work around for no RAW pre capture. Paint it however you want, but RAW pre capture is game changing and Canons variable fps modes or controlling your bursts is an easy and totally fine workaround. I hope Nikon gets RAW pre capture and Canon has no hard stops in future firmware updates. Both I believe are possible.
@@adamwhittingham86 There is no work around when the camera has locked up. You get NO photos. NO video, Nothing, The shutter is locked , And you miss the shot,,,, Could not care a less about pre capture.
The buffer handling is atrocious on Canon. I've hit numerous times and it's very frustrating. Equally frustrating is their insistence that opening the memory card door shuts off the camera which prevents you from doing memory card swaps if you're recording from one card to the other as they fill up.
This does happen to me, often while shooting sports. Shifting down to a lower FPS would be far better. One thing I always wanted was variable fps on the shutter button. 5fps with a normal press, 30fps if you press hard. It's almost natural to press harder when something great/action happens.
Thanks Bradley, you will be happy to hear the R1 has exactly what you suggested. On the AF on button you can set two FPS, half depress for low FPS full depress for high FPS. Cheers, Duade
On the R5 Mk2 you can also have the camera in a 20 fps mode and then when you press the AF-ON button it goes to 30 fps. This is how I have my R5 Mk2 setup. On the R1 I have 20 fps as default and 40 fps with half-press AF-ON. Good luck.
I am using an R3 and shooting uncompressed raw sports at 30fps. I am using fast Prograde CFexpress 4.0 Gold cards. I never ran into a buffer full issue.
I just benchmarked by R3. I can shoot 6 seconds (1/2000s, f/4, auto ISO, manual focus, RAW, CFexpress card only) before the buffer is full! In practice, I never shoot sequences that long ;-)
Regarding the speed, I can take 30fps RAW each file being about 30MB (measured over 4 seconds of shooting, i.e. 120 images, 1/2000s, f/4, auto ISO, manual focus), i.e., my R3 can write at 900MB/s on a CFexpress 4.0 card that supports a sustained write of 800MB/s (and 3000MB/s max) according to the card manufacturer. This would lead to a 5.4GB internal memory.
Also an R3 shooter here, this is one reason I also don't see the R5 II as the outright upgrade over the R3 that a lot of people seem to be making it out to be. I tested the uncompressed RAW buffer on my R3 with 6 or 7 different CFE cards and it would do between 149 and 156 shots before hitting a stop on all of them. The R5 II is only listed as having a raw buffer of 93 shots in comparison, the A1 II is 240, that's not nothing. Also worth mentioning that I did the same card test with the Fuji XH2S and it doesn't ever hit a hard stop because it is writing to the card while buffering.
CF Express 4.0 cards are a great investment for the future but your camera (and I believe no current camera) supports PCIe 4.0. Prograde cards in general are some of the best, but I suspect you'd get the same performance from the older 160/325/650 GB Colbat cards.
I'm a A1 and R3 user, on my experience on R3, this is not mainly the buffer / writing speed problem, it also include CPU processing power, some shoot setting effecting the clear buffer speed, camera need processes the raw before write it to the CFe card. such as: 1. Long exp. noise reduction 2. High ISO NR 3. Dust delete data 4. All lens correction It huge difference on clear buffer speed between turning them all on or off.
Not that I've done a very scientific test but with most of those turned off and with the SD card removed I'm getting pretty limited buffer issues on an R5. My SD card (which is still a fairly fast one) becomes the blockage with HIEF files being written to it, but there are very small gaps in shooting using H+ and CRAW with the SD card removed while writing to a CFexpressB card only. But it actually clears surprisingly quickly and only causes a fraction of a second delay while continuously holding the shutter button down (like the Nikon in this video). Still, I'd prefer the Sony implementation which lowers the frame rate to whatever the buffer can handle.
Thanks for this video, one of the most important review I should see and know before deciding between R5M2 and A1M2. It really is frustrating with how R5M2 behaves.
Yes, all the time. R7 - wildlife and bird shooter hobbyist and yes, have missed many shots because of it. Autofocus frustration is another source of GRR...
The R7 buffer size is ridiculously small and a huge shortcoming of that body. Shoot in CRAW to double the amount of images before hitting the buffer to help mitigate the problem if you aren't already.
Fantastically informative video! Thank you for the thorough comparison. Videos like this really help to make an educated decision on which brand to chose for one’s specific type of photography.
I always use the 30 fps in C-RAW with my R7 and never have this problem. Why not? I shoot in short bursts and lift my finger from the shutter button for a moment and press it again immediately. I think you "miss" fewer frames than when the buffer of Sony or Nikon fills up and the number of shots per second decreases significantly.
Maybe this is Canon's film simulation mode. Remember the old film camera days ? Once the film was full you had to rewind it and scrabble around in your pocket for the next 36 shots !!! Amazing the number of times you used to miss a good photo because you were unloading. Good, honest video as usual.
I have only encountered this while running tests, not in the field. It isn't because I am careful, it is because I haven't had the need to hold the shutter down that long.
With the R1 I can shoot full RAW @ 20 fps and the buffer never pauses. At 40 fps the buffer does pause briefly after ~400 frames (10 sec). I have the camera set to default @ 20 fps and use the AF-ON button to trigger 40 fps when needed.
I don't have this buffer problem simply because I don't shoot such long bursts. I usually only shoot in 2-3 second bursts at most. I also rarely shoot faster than 20 fps. If I did more BIF shooting or shot 30 fps a lot, it would be more of a problem, I guess.
Thanks John, great to hear, I dont have an issue at 15fps on the R52, only at 30fps for action like BIF or some very interesting behaviour. Cheers, Duade
If you all the lens corrections off (if you shoot raw, you should have these off, but they are on by default), then the 'buffer' completely clears in 5 seconds. The camera processing the lens correction in all those images stops you from changing settings.
I use an original Canon 1d X, and whilst its burst is way slower in all situations compared to these cameras, its behavior is similar to the sony where it shoots at a somewhat unsteady lower rate, maybe at 4-5 FPS with no hard stop in shooting.
I don't know if this has already been fixed, but R cameras were known to freeze up. You had to remove the battery, then put it back to unfreeze it. This to me, is worse than the buffer freezing up.
I hate the hard buffer too!! I've missed so many shots for wildlife or fashion and dance where I take a burst, hit the buffer, and then miss a key moment. Or want to switch to video and then have to wait. I feel the same as you that this is probably my biggest gripe with Canon.
25 years as a pro photographer using film I rarely use high fps. When I went to digital I was in danger of giving customers too many photographs. I can see your reasoning, I imagine it could be done with firmware, we live in hope.
I know that the dream will be Canon do the same of the other brands, but I never feel bad about the buffer on my R7. The gear today have so many features that make our life easy that we sometimes forget that even with old DSLR we can take wonderful photos (I just saw your 40D video that you comprove that). I know that R7 have several thing that will be good if Canon can improve in a new model, but this are the best camera I was able to use in my life. I think always when the experience more expensive gear we start to see several fails in other gears.
I heard somewhere that Canon bakes in noise reduction in the Raw files. So that would mean that the camera is modifying each files so there's some computation going on there that is slowing down the transfer. As you said why do you need a fast card if it doesn't write it on the card that fast... I don't have an answer to that. Maybe Canon should let the computing stuff go to the computer editing software that I think everybody uses.
Thanks, that may have something to do with it for sure. Will be interesting to hear if anyone knows why the speed is slower than the card. Cheers, Duade
Read/right bottlenecks on cards occure when the camera tries to avoid overwriting deleted files (if you just delete a file from the card, the files are still there and tge camera will write in unused space before it overwrites deleted files, abd then the card speed can really slow down). When you delete a card's content, reformat the card). The difference is negligible, but reformatting means lower read/write errors.
Thanks for the feedback, it does not happen that often but if shooting at 30fps on the R52 and there is BIF or a lot of action I occasionally hit the buffer. Cheers, Duade
I shoot CRAW which nearly doubles the images in the buffer. Hard stop buffer has not been an issue at all for me on the R5, R5 MkII or R3. The R6 MkII and R7 have a bigger problem with this issue even in CRAW.
Yeah, I failed with my wildlife picture as well. I didn’t even know that Nikon and Sony had solved this issue. I'm a little shocked! ^^ Sony’s approach is by far the best. I hope Canon updates all their cameras soon!
I think the issue here is that the DIGIC X processors can't cope with the massive amount of data being thrown at them. We would need a new series of processors before the issues regarding buffer would be addressed. The processor used in these cameras is quite long in the tooth now so I'd expect a newer processor in the not so distant future.
Shooting fast jets at airshows was a major buffer frustration way back on my 1D Mk III. I am surprised it hasn't been addressed. The heads in the sand approach is not the best way to retain customers when other manufacturers are offering more.
@ But that is still a buffer. Ok, to machinegunners it may well be preferable, but I try to choose my moments. Even with bird photography I only set my camera to bursts of five shots.
@craigbrown8563 but that statement would suggest that Canon professionals make no money from action shots which, no matter how cynical anyone can be, just isn’t correct. Perhaps, with the way tech is advancing, professional action photographers are going to be shooting bursts of UUUHD video. Or lose out to AI creations.
@@tonylockhart1963 You don't understand sorry . First you can not pull a good photo out of a video not even 8k. So your at the airport the president is there about to board, You take small bursts as he shakes hands and waves then he starts up the stairs and begins to stumble, You hold the shutter down and the camera locks up solid, No photos No video, nothing , Many people use cameras besides bird or sport photographers and make a living with them.
It does seem odd that they have this issue on the mirrorless bodies. My old 40D, while having a small buffer, doesn't have a hard stop. It will keep shooting, albeit very slowly, for as long as I hold the shutter down. Hitting that buffer, or even not hitting it and not being able to switch to video, on my R5 is frustrating at times. Definitely have a big impact on what can be captured.
Thanks Craig, it really is a first world problem and not one that happens all the time but it only takes missing that one shot due to the hard buffer that makes this an issue. Its just a little frustrating when an obvious solution exists. Cheers, Duade
The reason is that when the camera is shooting it has no resources to do anything else. When the buffer is full, it unloads to the card until sufficient space is available, then starts to go again. It can't do both things at the same time.
Yes, frustrating to no end. When the action starts, a camera just got to be ready to capture the moment, even if the moment is a bit longer. I also don't understand why the R5II doesn't have CFexpress 4.0, that should have enough bandwidth to store CRAW with no interruption whatsoever. That the R5II handles precapture properly is a gift, though.
Great video! I shoot with an R10 and R8, which have significantly smaller buffers than the R5II and R1, and run into this issue all the time. I use V90 SD cards and intentionally shoot at a lower frame rate while feathering the shutter button and still hit the buffer all the time when the action is kicking off. I would much prefer that Canon simply lower the frame rate once the buffer is hit, even if that meant I could only get off a second or two at 20fps before the frame rate dropped to 5-10fps.
We already need to write a research paper on the various framerates the camera uses with different batteries, battery levels, card temperature, outside temperature, moon phases, wifi on/off... having 2 levels, one when the buffer isn't full, and one when it is, wouldn't be that much more to keep in mind. On a related topic, maybe you can do a video on this topic - how Nikon (and presumably Sony) cameras retain their full framerate basically no matter what, whereas Canon cameras need a spreadsheet of 20 different combinations and conditions which need to be met in order to do so.
Shooting ice skaters last weekend at 30fps (amazing how fast they spin round and blink) I did hit the buffer but not that often. I got shots that I would have missed shooting at 15fps so will continue with 30fps, but need to refine my processing workflow to cope with the volume of images. I would go for the Nikon implementation in preferences to the Sony one. Another great technical review, thanks Duade.
Not had any issue, but I don't park my finger on the button long enough to see it. I prefer bursts. I do agree the write speed should match or be close to the card write limits, otherwise why did we pay for it? I would still take the Canon over the others for the AF system and glass quality.
It's happened twice to me . . . with an R5 about three years ago. I quickly learned to feather the shutter and never had the problem again. It doesn't affect me anymore, but I understand the frustration. If I ever hit the hard buffer with the R1, I hope somebody beats me up and takes my camera away.
I am a Canon shooter with both R3 and R1 and photograph birds and wildlife. I never hit the buffer, but that is partly due to having the fastest (in terms of writing to) cards and limit the number of frames sometimes.
Cost is a major problem for me, I have spent my money on the lens and shoot with a 90D and 500mm f4 for birds. I would love to upgrade but I shoot at max fps in short burst. that is the best way for me to avoid the hard stop.
I shoot with a 90d as well using a Sigma 150-600. I shoot raw at the fastest burst and often experience buffering issues. On my next outing I’ll lower the burst rate and see what results.
I am a Canon shooter (R6 Mark II) I experience this hard buffer delay while shooting high burst plus (40 fps) shooting sport events. To combat this situation I down grade the burst mode to high burst (20 fps), but I eventually reach hard buffer if I'm heavily press down on the shutter butter. I hope in the future Canon can mitigate this situation via firmware update.
Yup. But I don't lean on the tech that much. My finger is operated by my brain. You have pre shot and you could try slumming it at 20/15fps. This is a prime example where you always want more. When you get more. You want even more.
I appreciate your comment and yes, I could shoot at 15fps and not really have an issue. However these brands are advertising the higher frame rates and if they do that then they should also be looking at improving the buffer system. Cheers, Duade
@Duade My point is. Not just you. But if you give them just a slow down. The complaint would be about the slowdown. If there was an unlimited buffer, the complaint would be about file size. If the file size was smaller then there would be complaints about the possible loss of detail. It just goes on and on. I do it too. We are all human.
@@WiFuzzy Thanks, totally agree, it is human nature for sure. The R52 would have truly been like science fiction and from another plant if we took it back even 10 years ago. Cheers, Duade
@@Duade Congrats in reading all the posts. Most don't. You have a good channel. I only watch 2 wildlife Channels. Yours and one other. Because you both shoot quality content and I learn something when I watch. Keep up the good work. Even though I might disagree here and there...lol.
My Sony A7 III, an entry level full frame body from 2018 has that buffer bar, very handy for managing the buffer during action, I have no idea why Canon put that in the r7 even just for pre capture but leave it out of their 2 most recent and most expensive bodies.
Hi Duade, great video. I have had the same issue with the R5. We were photographing sea eagles diving to get fish and my buffer filled up continuously so I missed the shots. Fortunately my wife was shooting Sony and was able to get the photos I missed.
For a long time now, I've only used my Sony rx10 IV for wildlife photography, I briefly moved to canon this yeah, but I'm planning on selling it and a large. I've always had the pleasure of literally never having to hit a buffer on Sony, to then having to deal with this, was very frustrating. I'm thinking of going to Sony now.
I believe that without the hard buffer, the slowdown would happen much sooner. I notice this issue when I shoot a couple of seconds at 30 fps in CRaw and then switch to video-only to find the system unresponsive. It’s incredibly frustrating because it leaves me unable to capture the real action in the moment.
R6 II - I haven't been impacted by the buffer at all because I mainly only use electronic first curtain with high speed continuous and not high speed continuous plus while out doing bird photography.
You are right Duade, it should be able clear the buffer quicker with the CF Express B cards, and we should be able to set the buffer behaviour like others have suggested.
It is an issue, but like all things I've worked around it. I don't have the means to jump ship to another brand, so I've learned to better predict certain action I want to get and learned to hit the burst then instead of trying to get more of it before and after the action. It also helps that I do a lot of photography for a crossfit gym and have learned where the best parts of the action will be. Do I think they should change how the buffer works to be similar to Nikon and Sony? Yes. Could it be that there's a Patent that Sony and Nikon have that keeps Canon from doing this? Possibly. Is there a creative way for them to get around it all? Definitely.
Thanks Travis, wonderful comment and I totally agree. I think Canon are the only brand with a hard buffer like this so not sure there is a patent as such but who knows. Cheers, Duade
High frame rate is needed the most during spectacular action - mostly, during individual bird burst takeoffs and fights between birds. The buffer will never be hit on the burst takeoffs. Fights can be extended, but most of the time they are under 4 seconds, so the buffer won't be hit. Good vision and intelligent decisions when to let upon the shutter help a lot, so the max frame rate is available when it counts the most - during spectacular action involving more than 1 bird. For example, Sharp-tailed grouse fights can last for 30+ secs sometimes, but the birds take little breaks or do not line up with the plane of focus for a few seconds. Those are the times to let up on the shutter, so you can re-burst at max frame rate (because it is available) and this can yield the image that captures the ideal head positions and wing positions, with great focus on both subjects, assuming sufficient DOF is set, as well as high enough shutter speed for the action (which is known, based on experience). Another similar example: extended duck fights - they almost always go under water and that is the time to take a break from the shutter.
Thanks Paul, yes, good technique can resolve most of these issues and I employ the same strategies. Its just on that odd occasion you are doing BIF or action at 30fps the buffer simply accumalates and on the are occasion you do hit the buffer it is frustrating when there is a working solution. Cheers, Duade
Awesome video, well analyzed and explained. Thank you! The implementation by Canon when it reaches full buffer seems to me indeed the least usable of the three implementations. Looking at the data you collected, I wonder though if the write speed in combination with the smaller file sizes may be simply partly the result of higher compression? If the quality of the different CRAW formats is comparable (and disregarding a 10% difference in megapixels), at the end of the day the Sony captures 842 vs 661 (27% more) shots per minute. Still significant of course, but less stark than the near 100% difference in data written. In fact, if indeed image quality is about equal, you could argue that the need for less fast and smaller memory cards are a plus for Canon. To be clear, I do agree with your arguments and love the video. Just wanted to contribute an additional (unresearched) angle. 🙂
Thanks for all the work you've put in to make this quantitative analysis! I've not encountered this issue photographing birds or other wildlife with the R5MkII, but I have occasionally missed "that shot" at airshows where the action is fast and furious and the effects of multiple short bursts at 30fps add up to fill the buffer. I would prefer the solution which Sony has adopted as it is more deterministic.
Good examination of the issue Duade. I shoot sports, primarily baseball and softball, and fortunately this hasn't been much of a problem for me, as I typically don't shoot bursts longer than 2-3 seconds. However, as a former embedded software engineer that worked on a lot of low-level buffering solutions in the past, this issue with Canon cameras irks me just on principle. Most embedded microprocessors these days have multiple processor cores and are able to run several threads simultaneously. It should be pretty straightforward to have one thread handling capturing images and inserting them into the buffer, and another thread handling offloading images from the buffer to the memory card(s). The offloading thread would just need to block the capturing thread from taking any more photos until enough space has been freed in the buffer to accept a new image. It sounds like Nikon and Sony already do something like this. Sony might do some additional smoothing (i.e. when the buffer is full they drop the frame rate to match the speed at which the memory card(s) can ingest the frames from the buffer), whereas Nikon just blazes away at full speed whenever any space is available in the buffer. Both are better solutions that what Canon is doing, and I hope they can improve this behavior on their cameras.
Great video with some excellent suggestions. I won’t be holding my breath, though. I waited and waited for a firmware upgrade on the R5 to give us audio feedback when you were shooting, and that feature never came. That should have been a trivial change. Had to wait for the R5 II before that feature was implemented. I tend to shoot lots of small bursts. Unfortunately, pre capture exacerbates the buffer problem because of the extra 15 shots per burst.
Happens way too often, and it is more than a frustrating "feature" of Canon cameras. But I also raised my voice every chance I had for Canon to put Gen 4 slots into the R5II and the R1. At least the faster speed of Gen 4 slots would allow the buffer to clear much faster. I bought a Gen 4 reader and used Gen 4 cards in my R5 and tested the speed that you can get filies OFF the card, and it is much quicker. It would have been really nice to be able to write at that speed.
I should mention that even with the R3 that's "only" 24mp, I have taken two or three bursts back-to-back, just because of the way the action developed, and still wound up hitting the buffer limit. Not as often since it is obviously much less data per shot than the R5's. But it takes so long to clear a full buffer that it can even happen with the R3. I would have to think that the R1 at high speed would be much worse.
I hardly ever hit the buffer and I am shooting OM-1 Mark 1 usually at 20FPS regardless of the situation. I don't hit the long burst for static subject of course but never know when critical action may happen and want to be ready. As you said, with Olympus, camera would still continue to record images at much lower frame rate. Even when I use 25FPS, I also hardly hit the buffer when camera take lower FPS. I do recall a few times when shooing Osprey dive with sequences of the raptor in the air, the dive, the lift from the water, the shake, the fly by and sometime eagle does chase the osprey right afterwards. Also, when you are on the tour or chances of a life time, more photos is way better than not getting anything. So, I would maximize camera capabilities as much as I can in that situations. Having said that I do understand you Duade why one can hit the buffer and the hard stop is a pain. Hope Canon decided to do something to improve in this department.
I do have a question.. did you do any testing in silent shutter mode? On any of the cameras that have that mode.. I know the A1 has silent shutter mode.. just curious if it might make a difference.. of course you would have to find a different way to count the shots.. lol.
My Canon SL2 seems to slow down to somewhere near 1fps, compared to the default 5, when I hit the buffer. It’s a Rebel camera and doesn’t compare up to something like the R5ii but I can’t recall it fully waiting for the buffer to clear before letting me shoot.
Great how you figured out the buffer sizes, Duade! As with all electronic devices, the built in components of cameras have more and more impact on their overall performances. Some of the manufacturers seem to be less restrictive on their margin guidelines as others and provide more comprehensive components. On the software side some implement better autofocus and operating concepts, others have an edge in managing Prozessor, buffer and RAM bottlenecks. I think the A1 is significantly more expensive than an R5II without having a body like an R1. Hence it should have more "room to breathe" in everything. But as the R5II isn't actually very cheap, Canon should cut back on profit, install better components and at least should listen to constructive criticism like yours to improve parts of software based solutions which are definitely not a big hit.
G'day, yes, the smaller 24mp files of the R3 and R1 mean the buffer takes a lot longer to hit which is one major advantage. Glad to hear you have not had a problem. Cheers, Duade
This happens with my R6 Mark ii. It drives me nuts, it happens frequently & feels like it takes forever to clear. My Nikon slows down but never stops taking photos. It is ridiculous that Canon has yet to address this. I do shoot a lot of BIF & sports…
Thanks for the feedback, it is always a balance isnt it. The shots I shared in this video were due to the high FPS though and I am unsure I would have captured those at a slower FPS. Cheers, Duade
Hi, you didn't mention Olympus in your testings? I got rid of my r7 in regards to the af issues from the slow read out speed. It also had problems keeping up burst speeds as you mention the reading and write speed. I missed alot. I'm so much happier with my Olympus OM- 1
I prefer the Sony implementation of the buffer. Duade, thanks for bringing this up so that the camera makers can consider what customers want and how to improve their cameras. Valuable feedback for our camera makers. Kind regards
I mainly run into this when a bird does something interesting and then keeps doing it, for example a heron trying to spear a fish, failing and retrying. Pre-capture fixed most of the other situations, like dragonflies banking or a kestrel starting to dive.
Thanks, yes, it is those situations exactly. Or you do a pelagic with flying birds and you get many poses and track it in the sky, an Osprey diving into the water etc. Cheers, Duade
Is it possible that other cameras write to the cards as they take pictures, but when they hit the buffer they slow down to the same pace the buffer can clear...but Canon only writes to the card from the buffer when photos aren't being taken, hence why it stops taking photos when it hits the buffer?
As a Canon shooter I've definitely hit that hard buffer a few times. I had a similar response to reducing my default FPS, but using higher FPS for fast action. I occasionally hit it while waiting for owls to take flight - sort of taking a burst every time the owl shifts its feet and sometimes I would run out of buffer just before the owl finally launched.
I shoot with Cannon on the X month two I never had any trouble with buffering if anything moms get tired and I put the camera down but other than that depends on what size card you put in there. I’m usually good to go.
I use my R7 and R6 mk1, I was hitting the hard stop so quickly at first with my R7, but switching from a V60, then to a V90 card made noticeable differences. On a V90 card shooting CRAW Im rarely hitting the blackout when actually out in the field. It happens here and there, but its very rare with a Sandisk Extreme Pro V90 card.
@@Duade That makes it even weirder to me, since that means they actively chose to make it like this recently, its not a weird legacy hold-over. Just bizarre that they think this is the best way to handle it IMO. Also if I am right that they actively decided to do this & its not an oversight, that might mean we don't have much hope of it being fixed, given how stubborn they are in other areas lately, like the closed RF mount.
Rarely an issue for me, but definitely annoying that they can't just do the "right" thing. There's no good reason it should lock out for multiple seconds.
I can definitely see where that's a problem for the pro shooter. I've got the R5 and R6 Mk II, and do plan to add the R5 Mk II to my bag in the near future. Looking forward to seeing how the new AF is, but no matter what, I generally don't shot at more than 20FPS, and many times slower than that, so the buffer issue isn't a major concern for me.
I shoot in RAW on both the R7 and R5, but I avoid the highest frame rate, since I don't like sorting in post. Though I do understand the appeal of fast frame rates, I routinely take short bursts to avoid buffer overload. So I can't claim that I've noticed the problem. But if a solution is needed, the Nikon method strikes me as less intrusive, as well as more consistent with what I do by habit.
While this may be a first world problem so to speak, but since other brands can get this better it is a fair comment. [just] I would consider this an opportunity for improvement for canon. The only real concern I have with Canon is regarding third party lenses, same for Nikon.
I have the Canon R5 Mark II and what I do when I hit the buffer I let off the shutter button and when it starts accumulating frames I can start shooting. I never had a problem hitting the hard stop while using the CF Express card but o definitely hit it a lot when using the v90 SD cards. If I want longer burst shooting I drop the frames per second down to 20fps or less depending on the action. With all that said it would only cost Pennie’s to increase the buffer size and makes me wonder if the people who are designing and manufacture these cameras are actually photographers!? lol I don’t understand why you wouldn’t create a camera with all the features you personally would want in your own camera!!!??? 😢
Thanks James, yes, not as big as an issue as it was once, and 15-20fps is still plenty. I just would like a buffer that works like Sony or Nikon. Cheers, Duade
U have encountered this with both my R5 and my R7, and before that, sometimes with my 90D. When it happens, it can be quite irritating. I've tried to compensate by shooting short bursts at key moments, which seems to have helped most of the time. But when you do need those extra frames, bang, it stops and you lose images. And that indeed is frustrating.
G'day all, thank you all for your honest feedback, I really do appreciate it. Unfortunately, it appears I was not clear in this video about the issue I occasionally run into.
1. I do not hold down the shutter for 5 seconds, this was purely to demonstrate the hard buffer.
2. I only occasionally run into the issue if shooting BIF or lots of action.
3. The hard buffer occurs due to the accumulation of photos over many short bursts, not one continuous burst.
4. When I do occasionally hit the buffer and miss a shot it is very frustrating.
5. Sony, Nikon etc have a solution I wish Canon used so on the odd occasion I do hit the buffer I don't miss a shot.
6. This video was to hopefully get Canon to update the way the buffer works for those who are impacted.
I do apologise if I came across entitled and unreasonable, it was not my intention.
Thanks again for all the feedback. Cheers, Duade
Yiu were very clear in your explanation of the issue. And in my opinion you didn’t cone across entitled at all. As a professional photographer this is a major issue for you as it effects you while working. I’m not a professional, but as a serious hobbiest this issue drives me crazy.
@@idahomountainlover754 Thanks for the feedback, that was what I was hoping to get across. Cheers, Duade
I love the way you explain in such simple terms an issue that is super technical. Love watching your videos just for this Duade!
As a software dev, I'm pretty sure the hard stop is a software limitation. Camera operating systems are arcane and complex. Japanese corporations are shy of taking risks to fix fundamental flaws in their architecture. Sony did a rewrite after the A7R2. Not being a Canon person, I'm not sure if they have done the same at any point.
With some brief comms with the dev support about DPP, I’d agree it’s software limited. I’ll bring it back on topic as DPP is in desperate need of a rewrite imo for macOS.
Canan should just offer a buffer setting, 1) full FPS (like they have now) 2 full then slower FPS (the Sony example) and lastly 3) Auto, a combination of the 2 (the Nikon implementation). Default setting Auto imo
@@mvp_kryptonite dpp runs like shit in windows too
@@futoenjoyer 🤣
Come on Canon
As a software developer myself, I agree with you.
I think rewriting the buffer algorithm to be cyclic or free up space as images are written, carries some risk and Canon must be averse to taking such risk with these low level parts of their software.
Or perhaps they just don’t see it as a priority to devote resources to as it doesn’t translate to a sexy new feature on the spec sheet.
And it may also be a matter of copyrighted software & coding.
Great explanation man. I figured this out 3 years ago. I switched to the Nikon Z8 and Fuji XH2. The Z8 RAW files are 45Mb and the XH2 are 83Mb in size. I was still continuing to run into this issue at first. Then I discovered with the Fuji, and in some cases the Z8, CARDS matter. The best card brands are all advertising similar speeds. Memory cards also have different internal buffer performance on the cards themselves. CFX 4.0 cards are the best in all cases. The Z8 performs the best using 4.0 cards. Writing to just the CFX card using both RAW and Jpeg is actually faster than writing RAW to the CFX and Jpeg to the SD card. Keep up the good work man.
Yes, happens more times than I'd like to admit. I've definitely missed KEY shots because of this issue.
Awesome video as always mate! Totally agree with you that this is a huge issue for bird photographers! And don't even think about trying to switch between photos and video while buffer is still clearing! I've had R5 just freeze up for almost 30 seconds when doing that and then you literally miss everything :(
Thanks mate, yes, would be nice to have an option similar to Sony/Nikon. I must admit the R52 is pretty good and the R1 much better but when it does happen it is very annoying. The video buffer is odd, hoping they fix it going forward. Wishing you the best for 2025. Cheers, Duade
I have the Nikon Z9 and when shooting 20 fps, RAW, there is counter in the EVF and monitor that shows a count down to zero when internal buffer is reached.I do
have a Delkin Black Diamond CF Express type B card that reads 1750Mbs and writes 1540Mbs, ( I believe these are the numbers,) which are incredibly fast and clears the buffer rapidly. The buffer countdown will display an increasing count available as the buffer clears.
Got the camera early and this has affected me once. I haven’t come across a scenario where I need to shoot for 10 seconds at 20f/s. I shoot sport & nature too.
I shoot Nikon. Sony buffer handling looks to be the preferred one. On my Z8 I shoot Cfexpres 1700 mb/s and have never reached the buffer. The amount of pictures is shockingly high. I was shooting peligrine falcons eating their prey in the air. I get pictures I never saw before. We are blessed with this technology so I agree with you. Thx for sharing.
I've defintiely reached the buffer when there's a long bit of action, but all that does is slow the FPS down to a rate that the camera can clear and then resumes.
. . .only issue I've found is the Z8 hardlocking or (when shooting in slightly warm weather) the "Hot Card" warning.
Nikon Z8 here also, Lexar Professional CFXB. Haven't hit buffer yet. Not a pro, but I do bird. Amazing throughput in this system.
I also shoot with Nikon z8 and never fill the buffer
Clear, concise and very informative. What appears to be a software issue is clearly resolvable in different ways [Nikon and Sony] did not think that the way you communicated this was an issue at all. Love your videos. Keep up the great work 👍🏻
Thanks Andrew, I apprecaite it, Cheers, Duade
I had the Sony a7r3 and that was a buffering nightmare. When you reached the limit which was pretty quick, it would take almost 2 minutes to write down the buffer. The camera was frozen. You couldn't access menus while writing
Thanks for sharing, sounds like Sony have improved their buffers with the later cameras. Cheers, Duade
The hard buffer was a major reason for me to move from the Canon R5 to the Nikon Z8. Missing action shots was pretty annoying but the not being able to record video was incredibly frustrating. By the time the buffer had cleared the action or the moment was well and truly going. On the Z8 I don't have that problem. I hope canon resolves the hard buffer one day as that will fix one major flaw in my opinion.
@@Michael_Chay_Photography But no raw pre capture on the Z8. Swings and roundabouts.
@@adamwhittingham86 Still better then not being able to take ANY photos with a canon
@@redauwg911 The canon is at 30fps. The Z8 is at 20fps. If you drop the Canon to 20fps it probably has no issues with buffer or atleast plenty deep enough to not be an issue. Even at 30 it seems very usable still in almost all situations.
But there is no alternative or work around for no RAW pre capture. Paint it however you want, but RAW pre capture is game changing and Canons variable fps modes or controlling your bursts is an easy and totally fine workaround.
I hope Nikon gets RAW pre capture and Canon has no hard stops in future firmware updates. Both I believe are possible.
@@adamwhittingham86 There is no work around when the camera has locked up.
You get NO photos. NO video, Nothing, The shutter is locked , And you miss the shot,,,, Could not care a less about pre capture.
@@redauwg911 You just keep slamming that shutter button. Spray and prey.
The buffer handling is atrocious on Canon. I've hit numerous times and it's very frustrating. Equally frustrating is their insistence that opening the memory card door shuts off the camera which prevents you from doing memory card swaps if you're recording from one card to the other as they fill up.
Sorry to hear it has been an issue for you, hopefully they update the way the buffer works in future models. Cheers, Duade
This does happen to me, often while shooting sports. Shifting down to a lower FPS would be far better. One thing I always wanted was variable fps on the shutter button. 5fps with a normal press, 30fps if you press hard. It's almost natural to press harder when something great/action happens.
Thanks Bradley, you will be happy to hear the R1 has exactly what you suggested. On the AF on button you can set two FPS, half depress for low FPS full depress for high FPS. Cheers, Duade
On the R5 Mk2 you can also have the camera in a 20 fps mode and then when you press the AF-ON button it goes to 30 fps. This is how I have my R5 Mk2 setup. On the R1 I have 20 fps as default and 40 fps with half-press AF-ON. Good luck.
I am using an R3 and shooting uncompressed raw sports at 30fps. I am using fast Prograde CFexpress 4.0 Gold cards. I never ran into a buffer full issue.
I just benchmarked by R3. I can shoot 6 seconds (1/2000s, f/4, auto ISO, manual focus, RAW, CFexpress card only) before the buffer is full! In practice, I never shoot sequences that long ;-)
Regarding the speed, I can take 30fps RAW each file being about 30MB (measured over 4 seconds of shooting, i.e. 120 images, 1/2000s, f/4, auto ISO, manual focus), i.e., my R3 can write at 900MB/s on a CFexpress 4.0 card that supports a sustained write of 800MB/s (and 3000MB/s max) according to the card manufacturer. This would lead to a 5.4GB internal memory.
Thanks for taking the time to share, yes, the 24mp bodies have an advantage of the smaller files that is for sure. Cheers, Duade
Also an R3 shooter here, this is one reason I also don't see the R5 II as the outright upgrade over the R3 that a lot of people seem to be making it out to be. I tested the uncompressed RAW buffer on my R3 with 6 or 7 different CFE cards and it would do between 149 and 156 shots before hitting a stop on all of them. The R5 II is only listed as having a raw buffer of 93 shots in comparison, the A1 II is 240, that's not nothing. Also worth mentioning that I did the same card test with the Fuji XH2S and it doesn't ever hit a hard stop because it is writing to the card while buffering.
CF Express 4.0 cards are a great investment for the future but your camera (and I believe no current camera) supports PCIe 4.0. Prograde cards in general are some of the best, but I suspect you'd get the same performance from the older 160/325/650 GB Colbat cards.
I'm a A1 and R3 user, on my experience on R3, this is not mainly the buffer / writing speed problem, it also include CPU processing power, some shoot setting effecting the clear buffer speed, camera need processes the raw before write it to the CFe card.
such as:
1. Long exp. noise reduction
2. High ISO NR
3. Dust delete data
4. All lens correction
It huge difference on clear buffer speed between turning them all on or off.
Not that I've done a very scientific test but with most of those turned off and with the SD card removed I'm getting pretty limited buffer issues on an R5. My SD card (which is still a fairly fast one) becomes the blockage with HIEF files being written to it, but there are very small gaps in shooting using H+ and CRAW with the SD card removed while writing to a CFexpressB card only. But it actually clears surprisingly quickly and only causes a fraction of a second delay while continuously holding the shutter button down (like the Nikon in this video). Still, I'd prefer the Sony implementation which lowers the frame rate to whatever the buffer can handle.
Great video Duade, thank you. Fascinating learning about the memory , write speeds etc. Keep up the good work
Thanks for this video, one of the most important review I should see and know before deciding between R5M2 and A1M2. It really is frustrating with how R5M2 behaves.
Nikon's implementation is the best in the field
Yes, all the time. R7 - wildlife and bird shooter hobbyist and yes, have missed many shots because of it. Autofocus frustration is another source of GRR...
The R7 buffer size is ridiculously small and a huge shortcoming of that body. Shoot in CRAW to double the amount of images before hitting the buffer to help mitigate the problem if you aren't already.
same here with EOS90d
Fantastically informative video!
Thank you for the thorough comparison. Videos like this really help to make an educated decision on which brand to chose for one’s specific type of photography.
I always use the 30 fps in C-RAW with my R7 and never have this problem. Why not? I shoot in short bursts and lift my finger from the shutter button for a moment and press it again immediately. I think you "miss" fewer frames than when the buffer of Sony or Nikon fills up and the number of shots per second decreases significantly.
Thanks for the feedback, Cheers, Duade
Maybe this is Canon's film simulation mode. Remember the old film camera days ? Once the film was full you had to rewind it and scrabble around in your pocket for the next 36 shots !!! Amazing the number of times you used to miss a good photo because you were unloading. Good, honest video as usual.
I have only encountered this while running tests, not in the field. It isn't because I am careful, it is because I haven't had the need to hold the shutter down that long.
Thanks Jeff, great to hear you don't have this issue. Cheers, Duade
With the R1 I can shoot full RAW @ 20 fps and the buffer never pauses. At 40 fps the buffer does pause briefly after ~400 frames (10 sec). I have the camera set to default @ 20 fps and use the AF-ON button to trigger 40 fps when needed.
I don't have this buffer problem simply because I don't shoot such long bursts. I usually only shoot in 2-3 second bursts at most. I also rarely shoot faster than 20 fps. If I did more BIF shooting or shot 30 fps a lot, it would be more of a problem, I guess.
Thanks John, great to hear, I dont have an issue at 15fps on the R52, only at 30fps for action like BIF or some very interesting behaviour. Cheers, Duade
Sometimes you shoot 2 or 3 short bursts back-to-back, and it happens. I had that problem with the R3 shooting at 30 fps.
If you all the lens corrections off (if you shoot raw, you should have these off, but they are on by default), then the 'buffer' completely clears in 5 seconds. The camera processing the lens correction in all those images stops you from changing settings.
The aging Sony a9 has a visual buffer bar on the side... How does this camera not have that? That is mind blowing to me.
I use an original Canon 1d X, and whilst its burst is way slower in all situations compared to these cameras, its behavior is similar to the sony where it shoots at a somewhat unsteady lower rate, maybe at 4-5 FPS with no hard stop in shooting.
Thanks, yes, I remember that also, not sure why they changed the way it works for mirrorless. Cheers, Duade
I don't know if this has already been fixed, but R cameras were known to freeze up. You had to remove the battery, then put it back to unfreeze it. This to me, is worse than the buffer freezing up.
I hate the hard buffer too!! I've missed so many shots for wildlife or fashion and dance where I take a burst, hit the buffer, and then miss a key moment. Or want to switch to video and then have to wait. I feel the same as you that this is probably my biggest gripe with Canon.
25 years as a pro photographer using film I rarely use high fps. When I went to digital I was in danger of giving customers too many photographs. I can see your reasoning, I imagine it could be done with firmware, we live in hope.
I know that the dream will be Canon do the same of the other brands, but I never feel bad about the buffer on my R7. The gear today have so many features that make our life easy that we sometimes forget that even with old DSLR we can take wonderful photos (I just saw your 40D video that you comprove that).
I know that R7 have several thing that will be good if Canon can improve in a new model, but this are the best camera I was able to use in my life. I think always when the experience more expensive gear we start to see several fails in other gears.
Thanks mate, I needed that reminder for sure, I agree we are very lucky to have the features we do. Cheers, Duade
I heard somewhere that Canon bakes in noise reduction in the Raw files. So that would mean that the camera is modifying each files so there's some computation going on there that is slowing down the transfer.
As you said why do you need a fast card if it doesn't write it on the card that fast... I don't have an answer to that. Maybe Canon should let the computing stuff go to the computer editing software that I think everybody uses.
Thanks, that may have something to do with it for sure. Will be interesting to hear if anyone knows why the speed is slower than the card. Cheers, Duade
Read/right bottlenecks on cards occure when the camera tries to avoid overwriting deleted files (if you just delete a file from the card, the files are still there and tge camera will write in unused space before it overwrites deleted files, abd then the card speed can really slow down). When you delete a card's content, reformat the card). The difference is negligible, but reformatting means lower read/write errors.
Shot two days in the Danube Delta, birds especially and not even once that buffer limited me. If you know what are you doing it will never bother you.
Thanks for the feedback, it does not happen that often but if shooting at 30fps on the R52 and there is BIF or a lot of action I occasionally hit the buffer. Cheers, Duade
Yes photographing wildlife…. Birds in flight ….. once during an Eagle fight, very frustrating.
I shoot CRAW which nearly doubles the images in the buffer. Hard stop buffer has not been an issue at all for me on the R5, R5 MkII or R3. The R6 MkII and R7 have a bigger problem with this issue even in CRAW.
Thanks, yes, the higher the FPS the bigger the issue. Glad to hear you have not had an issue, Cheers, Duade
Yeah, I failed with my wildlife picture as well. I didn’t even know that Nikon and Sony had solved this issue. I'm a little shocked! ^^ Sony’s approach is by far the best. I hope Canon updates all their cameras soon!
I think the issue here is that the DIGIC X processors can't cope with the massive amount of data being thrown at them. We would need a new series of processors before the issues regarding buffer would be addressed. The processor used in these cameras is quite long in the tooth now so I'd expect a newer processor in the not so distant future.
Thanks, good point and likely a large part of it. Cheers, Duade
Great recommendations Duade, hopefully some can be done with firmware updates. The SSD in a battery grip would be amazing 😃
Shooting fast jets at airshows was a major buffer frustration way back on my 1D Mk III. I am surprised it hasn't been addressed. The heads in the sand approach is not the best way to retain customers when other manufacturers are offering more.
NIKON Z8,Z9不存在緩衝區問題。感謝分享，祝福您!
But there is a buffer, and at some point someone will have an issue with it.
@@tonylockhart1963 我使用Z8長達一年了，拍攝台灣熊鷹，完全不存在緩衝區問題，如同影片上的敘述，直接高速快門一直按下去，完全不存在速度會停滯或慢下來。若您有遇到上述緩衝區問題，您應該去檢視您的讀寫卡速度是否足夠。但CanonR5一代與二代確實一直存在緩衝區的問題。
@ But that is still a buffer. Ok, to machinegunners it may well be preferable, but I try to choose my moments. Even with bird photography I only set my camera to bursts of five shots.
@craigbrown8563 but that statement would suggest that Canon professionals make no money from action shots which, no matter how cynical anyone can be, just isn’t correct.
Perhaps, with the way tech is advancing, professional action photographers are going to be shooting bursts of UUUHD video. Or lose out to AI creations.
@@tonylockhart1963 You don't understand sorry . First you can not pull a good photo out of a video not even 8k. So your at the airport the president is there about to board, You take small bursts as he shakes hands and waves then he starts up the
stairs and begins to stumble, You hold the shutter down and the camera locks up solid, No photos No video, nothing , Many people use cameras besides bird or sport photographers and make a living with them.
It does seem odd that they have this issue on the mirrorless bodies. My old 40D, while having a small buffer, doesn't have a hard stop. It will keep shooting, albeit very slowly, for as long as I hold the shutter down. Hitting that buffer, or even not hitting it and not being able to switch to video, on my R5 is frustrating at times. Definitely have a big impact on what can be captured.
Thanks Craig, it really is a first world problem and not one that happens all the time but it only takes missing that one shot due to the hard buffer that makes this an issue. Its just a little frustrating when an obvious solution exists. Cheers, Duade
The reason is that when the camera is shooting it has no resources to do anything else. When the buffer is full, it unloads to the card until sufficient space is available, then starts to go again. It can't do both things at the same time.
Yes, frustrating to no end. When the action starts, a camera just got to be ready to capture the moment, even if the moment is a bit longer. I also don't understand why the R5II doesn't have CFexpress 4.0, that should have enough bandwidth to store CRAW with no interruption whatsoever. That the R5II handles precapture properly is a gift, though.
Great video! I shoot with an R10 and R8, which have significantly smaller buffers than the R5II and R1, and run into this issue all the time. I use V90 SD cards and intentionally shoot at a lower frame rate while feathering the shutter button and still hit the buffer all the time when the action is kicking off. I would much prefer that Canon simply lower the frame rate once the buffer is hit, even if that meant I could only get off a second or two at 20fps before the frame rate dropped to 5-10fps.
We already need to write a research paper on the various framerates the camera uses with different batteries, battery levels, card temperature, outside temperature, moon phases, wifi on/off... having 2 levels, one when the buffer isn't full, and one when it is, wouldn't be that much more to keep in mind.
On a related topic, maybe you can do a video on this topic - how Nikon (and presumably Sony) cameras retain their full framerate basically no matter what, whereas Canon cameras need a spreadsheet of 20 different combinations and conditions which need to be met in order to do so.
Excellent point. If I could choose I would prefer the A1 solution. Thanks
Shooting ice skaters last weekend at 30fps (amazing how fast they spin round and blink) I did hit the buffer but not that often. I got shots that I would have missed shooting at 15fps so will continue with 30fps, but need to refine my processing workflow to cope with the volume of images. I would go for the Nikon implementation in preferences to the Sony one. Another great technical review, thanks Duade.
Not had any issue, but I don't park my finger on the button long enough to see it. I prefer bursts. I do agree the write speed should match or be close to the card write limits, otherwise why did we pay for it? I would still take the Canon over the others for the AF system and glass quality.
It's happened twice to me . . . with an R5 about three years ago. I quickly learned to feather the shutter and never had the problem again. It doesn't affect me anymore, but I understand the frustration. If I ever hit the hard buffer with the R1, I hope somebody beats me up and takes my camera away.
Thanks Bill, yes, much less of an issue if you feather the shutter for sure. The R1 is incredible, have fun with it. Cheers, Duade
I am a Canon shooter with both R3 and R1 and photograph birds and wildlife. I never hit the buffer, but that is partly due to having the fastest (in terms of writing to) cards and limit the number of frames sometimes.
Cost is a major problem for me, I have spent my money on the lens and shoot with a 90D and 500mm f4 for birds. I would love to upgrade but I shoot at max fps in short burst. that is the best way for me to avoid the hard stop.
Thanks Rob, great strategy and is why I now shoot at 15fps as default to avoid this buffer issue. Cheers, Duade
I shoot with a 90d as well using a Sigma 150-600. I shoot raw at the fastest burst and often experience buffering issues. On my next outing I’ll lower the burst rate and see what results.
I am a Canon shooter (R6 Mark II) I experience this hard buffer delay while shooting high burst plus (40 fps) shooting sport events. To combat this situation I down grade the burst mode to high burst (20 fps), but I eventually reach hard buffer if I'm heavily press down on the shutter butter. I hope in the future Canon can mitigate this situation via firmware update.
Yup. But I don't lean on the tech that much. My finger is operated by my brain. You have pre shot and you could try slumming it at 20/15fps. This is a prime example where you always want more. When you get more. You want even more.
I appreciate your comment and yes, I could shoot at 15fps and not really have an issue. However these brands are advertising the higher frame rates and if they do that then they should also be looking at improving the buffer system. Cheers, Duade
@Duade My point is. Not just you. But if you give them just a slow down. The complaint would be about the slowdown. If there was an unlimited buffer, the complaint would be about file size. If the file size was smaller then there would be complaints about the possible loss of detail. It just goes on and on. I do it too. We are all human.
@@WiFuzzy Thanks, totally agree, it is human nature for sure. The R52 would have truly been like science fiction and from another plant if we took it back even 10 years ago. Cheers, Duade
@@Duade Congrats in reading all the posts. Most don't. You have a good channel. I only watch 2 wildlife Channels. Yours and one other. Because you both shoot quality content and I learn something when I watch. Keep up the good work. Even though I might disagree here and there...lol.
My Sony A7 III, an entry level full frame body from 2018 has that buffer bar, very handy for managing the buffer during action, I have no idea why Canon put that in the r7 even just for pre capture but leave it out of their 2 most recent and most expensive bodies.
Hi Duade, great video. I have had the same issue with the R5. We were photographing sea eagles diving to get fish and my buffer filled up continuously so I missed the shots. Fortunately my wife was shooting Sony and was able to get the photos I missed.
Thanks Barry, yes, it does not happen all the time but when it does happen it can be very frustrating. Cheers, Duade
For a long time now, I've only used my Sony rx10 IV for wildlife photography, I briefly moved to canon this yeah, but I'm planning on selling it and a large. I've always had the pleasure of literally never having to hit a buffer on Sony, to then having to deal with this, was very frustrating. I'm thinking of going to Sony now.
G'day, It is not that common and it only impacts a minority of people, I probably did not make that clear enough in the video. Cheers, Duade
I believe that without the hard buffer, the slowdown would happen much sooner. I notice this issue when I shoot a couple of seconds at 30 fps in CRaw and then switch to video-only to find the system unresponsive. It’s incredibly frustrating because it leaves me unable to capture the real action in the moment.
R6 II - I haven't been impacted by the buffer at all because I mainly only use electronic first curtain with high speed continuous and not high speed continuous plus while out doing bird photography.
Thanks, yes EFCS will unlikely ever hit the buffer which is great. Cheers, Duade
You are right Duade, it should be able clear the buffer quicker with the CF Express B cards, and we should be able to set the buffer behaviour like others have suggested.
It is an issue, but like all things I've worked around it. I don't have the means to jump ship to another brand, so I've learned to better predict certain action I want to get and learned to hit the burst then instead of trying to get more of it before and after the action. It also helps that I do a lot of photography for a crossfit gym and have learned where the best parts of the action will be.
Do I think they should change how the buffer works to be similar to Nikon and Sony? Yes. Could it be that there's a Patent that Sony and Nikon have that keeps Canon from doing this? Possibly. Is there a creative way for them to get around it all? Definitely.
Thanks Travis, wonderful comment and I totally agree. I think Canon are the only brand with a hard buffer like this so not sure there is a patent as such but who knows. Cheers, Duade
Always excited to see your videos 🎉
High frame rate is needed the most during spectacular action - mostly, during individual bird burst takeoffs and fights between birds. The buffer will never be hit on the burst takeoffs. Fights can be extended, but most of the time they are under 4 seconds, so the buffer won't be hit. Good vision and intelligent decisions when to let upon the shutter help a lot, so the max frame rate is available when it counts the most - during spectacular action involving more than 1 bird. For example, Sharp-tailed grouse fights can last for 30+ secs sometimes, but the birds take little breaks or do not line up with the plane of focus for a few seconds. Those are the times to let up on the shutter, so you can re-burst at max frame rate (because it is available) and this can yield the image that captures the ideal head positions and wing positions, with great focus on both subjects, assuming sufficient DOF is set, as well as high enough shutter speed for the action (which is known, based on experience). Another similar example: extended duck fights - they almost always go under water and that is the time to take a break from the shutter.
Thanks Paul, yes, good technique can resolve most of these issues and I employ the same strategies. Its just on that odd occasion you are doing BIF or action at 30fps the buffer simply accumalates and on the are occasion you do hit the buffer it is frustrating when there is a working solution. Cheers, Duade
Awesome video, well analyzed and explained. Thank you! The implementation by Canon when it reaches full buffer seems to me indeed the least usable of the three implementations.
Looking at the data you collected, I wonder though if the write speed in combination with the smaller file sizes may be simply partly the result of higher compression? If the quality of the different CRAW formats is comparable (and disregarding a 10% difference in megapixels), at the end of the day the Sony captures 842 vs 661 (27% more) shots per minute. Still significant of course, but less stark than the near 100% difference in data written. In fact, if indeed image quality is about equal, you could argue that the need for less fast and smaller memory cards are a plus for Canon.
To be clear, I do agree with your arguments and love the video. Just wanted to contribute an additional (unresearched) angle. 🙂
Write speed to the card likely is throttled as part of heat management.
Thanks, good point. Cheers, Duade
Thanks for all the work you've put in to make this quantitative analysis! I've not encountered this issue photographing birds or other wildlife with the R5MkII, but I have occasionally missed "that shot" at airshows where the action is fast and furious and the effects of multiple short bursts at 30fps add up to fill the buffer. I would prefer the solution which Sony has adopted as it is more deterministic.
Good examination of the issue Duade. I shoot sports, primarily baseball and softball, and fortunately this hasn't been much of a problem for me, as I typically don't shoot bursts longer than 2-3 seconds. However, as a former embedded software engineer that worked on a lot of low-level buffering solutions in the past, this issue with Canon cameras irks me just on principle.
Most embedded microprocessors these days have multiple processor cores and are able to run several threads simultaneously. It should be pretty straightforward to have one thread handling capturing images and inserting them into the buffer, and another thread handling offloading images from the buffer to the memory card(s). The offloading thread would just need to block the capturing thread from taking any more photos until enough space has been freed in the buffer to accept a new image.
It sounds like Nikon and Sony already do something like this. Sony might do some additional smoothing (i.e. when the buffer is full they drop the frame rate to match the speed at which the memory card(s) can ingest the frames from the buffer), whereas Nikon just blazes away at full speed whenever any space is available in the buffer. Both are better solutions that what Canon is doing, and I hope they can improve this behavior on their cameras.
Thanks for the detailed reply and that is very logical. Cheers, Duade
Great video with some excellent suggestions. I won’t be holding my breath, though. I waited and waited for a firmware upgrade on the R5 to give us audio feedback when you were shooting, and that feature never came. That should have been a trivial change. Had to wait for the R5 II before that feature was implemented.
I tend to shoot lots of small bursts. Unfortunately, pre capture exacerbates the buffer problem because of the extra 15 shots per burst.
Thanks, yes, precapture has added to it, I don't have issues at 15fps but at 30fps for BIF or a lot of action I run into issues. Cheers, Duade
I believe firmware 1.02 on R5 II fix the issue of camera not being able to change the mode while clearing the buffer
Thanks, I will check that out but I think its recording is the issue not switching modes if that makes sense. Cheers, Duade
Happens way too often, and it is more than a frustrating "feature" of Canon cameras. But I also raised my voice every chance I had for Canon to put Gen 4 slots into the R5II and the R1. At least the faster speed of Gen 4 slots would allow the buffer to clear much faster. I bought a Gen 4 reader and used Gen 4 cards in my R5 and tested the speed that you can get filies OFF the card, and it is much quicker. It would have been really nice to be able to write at that speed.
I should mention that even with the R3 that's "only" 24mp, I have taken two or three bursts back-to-back, just because of the way the action developed, and still wound up hitting the buffer limit. Not as often since it is obviously much less data per shot than the R5's. But it takes so long to clear a full buffer that it can even happen with the R3. I would have to think that the R1 at high speed would be much worse.
I hardly ever hit the buffer and I am shooting OM-1 Mark 1 usually at 20FPS regardless of the situation. I don't hit the long burst for static subject of course but never know when critical action may happen and want to be ready. As you said, with Olympus, camera would still continue to record images at much lower frame rate. Even when I use 25FPS, I also hardly hit the buffer when camera take lower FPS. I do recall a few times when shooing Osprey dive with sequences of the raptor in the air, the dive, the lift from the water, the shake, the fly by and sometime eagle does chase the osprey right afterwards. Also, when you are on the tour or chances of a life time, more photos is way better than not getting anything. So, I would maximize camera capabilities as much as I can in that situations. Having said that I do understand you Duade why one can hit the buffer and the hard stop is a pain. Hope Canon decided to do something to improve in this department.
Thanks mate, yeah I have had the same experience on the OM-1, hopefully Canon can implement a similar buffer setup. Cheers, Duade
I've never hit the buffer with my R5, R3 or R5 II. I've never had wildlife do anything long enough to have that problem.
Thanks for the feedback, great to hear, Cheers, Duade
I have never hit that buffer. Too many photos for me. I just don't keep my finger on the shutter button like that.
Excellent Video! Very interesting to see the data you were able pull out of the shutter sounds. Great Work!
I do have a question.. did you do any testing in silent shutter mode? On any of the cameras that have that mode.. I know the A1 has silent shutter mode.. just curious if it might make a difference.. of course you would have to find a different way to count the shots.. lol.
My Canon SL2 seems to slow down to somewhere near 1fps, compared to the default 5, when I hit the buffer. It’s a Rebel camera and doesn’t compare up to something like the R5ii but I can’t recall it fully waiting for the buffer to clear before letting me shoot.
Thank you for that great analysis!
My pleasure, Cheers, Duade
This is quality content. This is a reliable video from a user, not from a brand fanboy. Compliment
It blows my mind that canon still didn't fix this
Great how you figured out the buffer sizes, Duade!
As with all electronic devices, the built in components of cameras have more and more impact on their overall performances. Some of the manufacturers seem to be less restrictive on their margin guidelines as others and provide more comprehensive components. On the software side some implement better autofocus and operating concepts, others have an edge in managing Prozessor, buffer and RAM bottlenecks. I think the A1 is significantly more expensive than an R5II without having a body like an R1. Hence it should have more "room to breathe" in everything. But as the R5II isn't actually very cheap, Canon should cut back on profit, install better components and at least should listen to constructive criticism like yours to improve parts of software based solutions which are definitely not a big hit.
Honestly have not had this happen even once since getting my R3, after nearly 3 years. And I'm nearly always shooting at 30fps, always in RAW
G'day, yes, the smaller 24mp files of the R3 and R1 mean the buffer takes a lot longer to hit which is one major advantage. Glad to hear you have not had a problem. Cheers, Duade
This happens with my R6 Mark ii. It drives me nuts, it happens frequently & feels like it takes forever to clear. My Nikon slows down but never stops taking photos. It is ridiculous that Canon has yet to address this. I do shoot a lot of BIF & sports…
I see people on the field with fast cameras going trigger happy its not necessary just chill people you will get the shot no need to go overboard !
Thanks for the feedback, it is always a balance isnt it. The shots I shared in this video were due to the high FPS though and I am unsure I would have captured those at a slower FPS. Cheers, Duade
Hi, you didn't mention Olympus in your testings?
I got rid of my r7 in regards to the af issues from the slow read out speed. It also had problems keeping up burst speeds as you mention the reading and write speed. I missed alot. I'm so much happier with my Olympus OM- 1
I prefer the Sony implementation of the buffer. Duade, thanks for bringing this up so that the camera makers can consider what customers want and how to improve their cameras. Valuable feedback for our camera makers. Kind regards
Thanks Jeffery, I understand very few people are impacted by it but when you are it is very frustrating. Cheers, Duade
I mainly run into this when a bird does something interesting and then keeps doing it, for example a heron trying to spear a fish, failing and retrying.
Pre-capture fixed most of the other situations, like dragonflies banking or a kestrel starting to dive.
Thanks, yes, it is those situations exactly. Or you do a pelagic with flying birds and you get many poses and track it in the sky, an Osprey diving into the water etc. Cheers, Duade
Is it possible that other cameras write to the cards as they take pictures, but when they hit the buffer they slow down to the same pace the buffer can clear...but Canon only writes to the card from the buffer when photos aren't being taken, hence why it stops taking photos when it hits the buffer?
As a Canon shooter I've definitely hit that hard buffer a few times. I had a similar response to reducing my default FPS, but using higher FPS for fast action. I occasionally hit it while waiting for owls to take flight - sort of taking a burst every time the owl shifts its feet and sometimes I would run out of buffer just before the owl finally launched.
No issues here, feather the shutter like you have talked about in the past, have a good day
I shoot with Cannon on the X month two I never had any trouble with buffering if anything moms get tired and I put the camera down but other than that depends on what size card you put in there. I’m usually good to go.
I use my R7 and R6 mk1, I was hitting the hard stop so quickly at first with my R7, but switching from a V60, then to a V90 card made noticeable differences. On a V90 card shooting CRAW Im rarely hitting the blackout when actually out in the field. It happens here and there, but its very rare with a Sandisk Extreme Pro V90 card.
The hard buffer is bizzare to me, since shooting on my DSLR canon 90D it doesn't seem to have the hard buffer, it just slows down.
Yes, appears to have been introduced with mirrorless cameras. Cheers, Duade
@@Duade That makes it even weirder to me, since that means they actively chose to make it like this recently, its not a weird legacy hold-over. Just bizarre that they think this is the best way to handle it IMO.
Also if I am right that they actively decided to do this & its not an oversight, that might mean we don't have much hope of it being fixed, given how stubborn they are in other areas lately, like the closed RF mount.
@@edmundsdemonds8309 Yeah, it appears to be an engineering choice, not sure why to be honest. Cheers, Duade
It's happened to me BUT have never had this issue while using high FPS since I began using originally the 1DX III and then the R3.
Great to hear, Cheers, Duade
Rarely an issue for me, but definitely annoying that they can't just do the "right" thing. There's no good reason it should lock out for multiple seconds.
I can definitely see where that's a problem for the pro shooter. I've got the R5 and R6 Mk II, and do plan to add the R5 Mk II to my bag in the near future. Looking forward to seeing how the new AF is, but no matter what, I generally don't shot at more than 20FPS, and many times slower than that, so the buffer issue isn't a major concern for me.
Thanks, yes, It is a minority of shooters that are impacted for sure. Glad to hear it is not an issue for you. Cheers, Duade
I shoot in RAW on both the R7 and R5, but I avoid the highest frame rate, since I don't like sorting in post. Though I do understand the appeal of fast frame rates, I routinely take short bursts to avoid buffer overload. So I can't claim that I've noticed the problem. But if a solution is needed, the Nikon method strikes me as less intrusive, as well as more consistent with what I do by habit.
While this may be a first world problem so to speak, but since other brands can get this better it is a fair comment. [just]
I would consider this an opportunity for improvement for canon.
The only real concern I have with Canon is regarding third party lenses, same for Nikon.
Thanks Mark, I agree, only a minority of people are impacted by this but just a little frustrating when a solution exists. Cheers, Duade
I have the Canon R5 Mark II and what I do when I hit the buffer I let off the shutter button and when it starts accumulating frames I can start shooting. I never had a problem hitting the hard stop while using the CF Express card but o definitely hit it a lot when using the v90 SD cards. If I want longer burst shooting I drop the frames per second down to 20fps or less depending on the action. With all that said it would only cost Pennie’s to increase the buffer size and makes me wonder if the people who are designing and manufacture these cameras are actually photographers!? lol I don’t understand why you wouldn’t create a camera with all the features you personally would want in your own camera!!!??? 😢
Thanks James, yes, not as big as an issue as it was once, and 15-20fps is still plenty. I just would like a buffer that works like Sony or Nikon. Cheers, Duade
U have encountered this with both my R5 and my R7, and before that, sometimes with my 90D. When it happens, it can be quite irritating. I've tried to compensate by shooting short bursts at key moments, which seems to have helped most of the time. But when you do need those extra frames, bang, it stops and you lose images. And that indeed is frustrating.