I'm a story-artist who has worked on an animated feature (won't say too much due to it still being in early development and NDAs and what not). The issue with animation is that it is a very expensive medium in America. For instance, Reservoir Dogs was made on a budget of roughly 1.5 million dollars, but to make that movie an animated movie with the level of detail and nuance in the character acting would probably cost closer to 70 million dollars or more. Animation has the curse that the characters don't act on their own and won't naturally stand up right, speak words on their own, or follow the rules of physics. Making a tracking shot in live-action (as hard as people claim it is) is nowhere as time consuming as it is in an animated film. If I recall, the tracking shot in Ice Age 5 took the movie's entire production length to make. Just one tracking shot... The cost of high quality animation is animation's biggest curse. I remember once Aaron Blaise told a class I was a part of that roughly 2/3 of a 2D animated movie's budget went into inking and coloring... not the actual animation itself. He said animating it isn't all that expensive and can be made within a relatively short amount of time, but making it "presentable" is what makes it all the more expensive. Essentially if animation stopped trying to be so darn clean and polished more animated movies could be made. This is why "Into the Spiderverse" is a good sign because the animation is "stepped" (more or less) which means they spent a lot less time on the nitty gritty of timing and the animation and focused more on the way the animation is presenting the story. However, there is still the issue of animation itself is just a ridiculously complicated medium. To compare to live-action movies again, there are many well-received movies that were filmed over the course of two weeks... all of the acting, filming, cinematography, lighting, and what not were done in two weeks. Sure, editing it still takes a while, but a movie like Cars took 6 years to make. Even if animation costs could be reduced, there is still inevitable issue that everything in animation needs to be made, which is highly time consuming and adds to a budget. This means that making even a "cheap" animated film in America would still probably cost $20 million to $40 million. This is actually why out-sourcing animation is becoming a bigger deal. Illumination makes a lot of their movies in France and I'm pretty sure Blue Sky does as well. Edit: This isnt to say that the animation that is done in France or in Europe is lower quality. It's not! It's fantastic! The artists out there are insanely good but from what i was told it is cheaper to higher artists from Europe than in America. Someone can correct me if Im wrong, but im looking at Klaus' budget and that movie was made for an insanely low budget for such an absolutely amazing looking film (and it was made in Europe). My final statement: If animation studios would MOVE OUT OF CALIFORNIA they could reduce the expenses of their movies BY A TON! Personally, I think the movie industry in general is killing itself by having all of their studios in the most expensive regions in America. Animation companies should be out in the middle of nowhere, where the cost of living is super low which means the movie itself doesn't need to make a ton of money. Have a studio where the cost of living is a quarter of what it is in California, so then everyone's standard of living goes up, less crunch time, more sustainability, and then the movie can be made for the quarter of the budget because you are paying people less. Unfortunately, there is a pretty strong bias (from what I've encountered in the industry) that people in California seem to think that there can't be "great artists" outside of California. The idea is "If you made it to California, then you must be the best of the best. If you can't make it to here, then you aren't fit for animation work". However, this mentality is limiting the potential of animation itself. Talented artists come from everywhere and not every artist wants to move to the most expensive regions of America. Some artists actually WANT TO AFFORD A HOUSE AND HAVE LAND. We need animation studios all over America that are able to tell stories cheaply and effectively so that way the medium itself can broaden its horizons. That's my opinion from what little I understand about the industry! Edit: If anything I said is inaccurate or a little bit off, PLEASE feel free to correct me or explain something. I would love to understand more about the business other than my view through the visual development department.
@@TheRoyalOceanFilmSociety I don't think anyone born in California considers that the rest of the world is roughly a quarter or less of the cost. I've known people in the art industry who were shocked when they realized in some cities mortgage is only $800 per month. Also California has insane taxes. Animation needs to be somewhere cheap and quiet haha! (also, I hope no one from California takes offense to this! Just stating my thoughts!)
@@TheRoyalOceanFilmSociety Something I forgot to add: Wide shots and detailed facial acting are expensive. I remember I was pitching a storyboard at a Disney Portfolio Review and I tried to tell the story through mostly extreme wides with few close-ups. The person reviewing my content liked the story, but said that couldn't be done in a movie due to it being very expensive in the long run because all of the sets, environments, and character acting now need to be more detailed. The shots can't be faked like in a close-up where you can only see very little of the background. However, I'm skeptical if that's the real reason, because The Illusionist (2010) is told completely from wide-angles and that movie didn't cost a fortune. Long story short, there are a lot of complicated cost related issues in animation, like how each dot on the Dalmatians from 101 Dalmatians cost thousands of dollars so they needed to figure out a cost efficient number of dots that can be seen on the screen at a time or like how Hank the octopus from Finding Dory has only 7 tentacles because 8 tentacles would've cost a lot more money and you only really need to see 7 tentacles at max on an octopus because one of them is behind him. Regardless of all of the difficulties in funding animated movies, making them, rigging them, texturing them, animating them, lighting them, and what not , it is still the only medium where we can have a story about a fish trying to find his lost son and people legitimately cry while watching it or a movie about a bee suing the human race while he possibly has an affair with a human. There are a lot of elements holding animation back but animation also has a ton of freedom to do what it wants. Hopefully the future turns out alright for animation!
Bleep Bleep Agree 200% Actually: Why not thinking outside North America? I work in an animation studio in Colombia (South America). We specialize in high quality animation, we work with bigger studios around the world, telling fresh new stories (with so much respect, I think the global industry is tired of telling the same US centered stories). And our costs are fair! We can do movies for a third of the budget you guys produce. That’s my thought on the topic. Great conversation! Thanks for sharing your point of view.
@@TooCooFoYou Disney movies are the wonder bread of animation. They never go for any deep, thought provoking themes or stories, and any actually interesting ideas they give are very basic.
@@nowhereman6019 Not all films need to be deep and thought provoking. I'm gonna use Yellow Submarine as an example. It's one of the most recognizable and best animated films of all time, yet the whole film is an hour-and-a-half long animated music video. There's a reason why Disney is as prestige as it is and it's because they excel at what they set out to do, make movies for the general audiences that let's kids be adults and adults be kids.
I’m currently a student studying animation. One thing I have noticed with by just talking to classmates is that we’re tired of seeing the same things over and over again when spiderverse was released everyone saw multiple times. People we inspired to push their projects. We have assignments in my animation class where we have to pick a shot from a film based on a prompt like a throw or jump or run. For a good month people were submitting assignments studying spiderverse. It’s a film that is definitely going to make people want to create bigger and better things even just in school. Love you videos and some of my animation professors have shown you stuff in class so even though you say you’re just a guy looking at box office numbers keep up doing what you’re doing please!
Multiple times, yet it's last in terms of unadjusted worldwide box office for Spider-Man films. I thought _Isle of Dogs_ and _The Night Is Short, Walk on Girl_ were far superior films overall, but _Spider-Verse's_ animation was definitely remarkable. Just wish its script wasn't so frustrating.
@@Wired4Life2 must be from animation fans. Personally Spider Verse was the closest movie I was tempted to buy a second ticket for than most movies, which is a sign of a great movie, but I held off because of my personal financials, even though I watched it on a discount anyway. Yeah, call me how you want but I saw it, I didn't sleep on it OK
@@Wired4Life2 the overall quality of spiderverse far surpasses any of the live action spiderman movies, it's definitely a lot better than the mcu spiderman movies cause those are garbage
When people say to me "2D animation is dead" I respond with: "In America maybe, but over here in Europe or over in Japan, it's alive and well". A Sylvian Chomet or a Tomm Moore film stands out more to me visually than something from Illumination or Blue Sky. I think the major problem with animation in America today is that it relies too much on CGI as a cost-effective means of production and making dated pop culture references to look "hip and with it". This is quite apparent in 2004's Shark Tale. A film made with CGI and using puns, pop culture gags and celebrities to sell the film. Time has not been kind to it, the animation looks ugly by today’s standards and the story, characters and jokes are cliched and dated. When The Lion King was in production back in 1993, it was considered to be a small film. Don Hahn, the film's producer said: "The Lion King was considered a little movie because we were going to take some risks. The pitch for the story was a lion cub gets framed for murder by his uncle set to the music of Elton John. People said, 'What? Good luck with that.' But for some reason, the people who ended up on the movie were highly passionate about it and motivated." - Don Hahn Now we all know this film today, thanks to the impressive animation and the timeless story. It would be nice for 2D animation to make a comeback in America since it ages better and can be more expressive and fluid.
Japan makes some great stuff, but animators are being paid well below minimum wage while working insane hours. Ufotable was caught evading billions of yen in tax, and Kyoto animation (known for having better work conditions than most studios) was hit by an arson attack. Despite the "cost cutting", some amazing shows/movies still just don't make enough money back. Animation is fucking expensive. We need every cost cutting measure we can find that *isn't* cutting wages. Cost cutting is the name of the game in animation.
Its a crime that horror directors (particularly in the indie scene) dont make stop motion films. The imperfect janky movements and gritty textures of low budget stop motion greatly pair up with horror elements. UPDATE: EVERYONE WATCH "THE WOLF HOUSE". IT HAPPENED BOYS.STOP MOTION HORROR.
If you like horror and stopmotion, I suggest you check out Takena's claymation (ua-cam.com/users/takena) such as Chainsaw Maid, and The Sandman (1992) short film. Though marketed for kids, Laika's Coraline is an excellent stop motion film with a creepy edge.
It's also a crime that they don't hire the VFX people from Detective pikachu and Battle Angel Alita. Those are some of the scariest movies I've /ever/ seen - but for all the wrong reasons.
@@Little1Cave Well, in the case of cartoons, it wouldn't work. I can't imagine a horror film blending well with a Pixar aesthetic. But something grittier, yes.
Hey! I'm an animator and I love your videos. I could not agree more that looking outside the major studios is INCREDIBLY important for seeing the true range of animated movies out there. I think because there is such a gap in high quality traditional animation in the major spaces, everyone in smaller studios is absolutely working their hardest to fill that gap. We just don't all have the money to make and market a feature length movie. Most of my work so far has been in animated music videos (cough cough please watch Starlight Brigade), but the desire people have for 2D animation will bring through a new golden age. It's just up to all of us to carry it xx
I'm an animator too, and I couldn' t agree more w your comment! It is tough to fill this gap especially working in a country (Brazil) where the animation industry is not as developed as it is in North America or Europe. But it is possible ("Boy and the World" is a great example). And by the way, congratulations on working in that Starlight Brigade video, that thing is a masterpiece!
Noitibmar I agree that music videos are where most of the cool animation is happening these days. Have you seen the music videos for SIAMES!? A studio called Rudo Co in Argentina did them and their work is amazing. I’d love to see feature films with their style but the Hollywood money men only seem willing to finance 3DCG :(
I watched it, it's a cool video, glad there are people out there making stuff like this. Btw, the style reminds me of early Miyazaki, particularly Nausicaa, but with influences from more modern western animation too.
In my experience most people in the west think animation is just for kids. This misconception will probably get worse because the major animated films are even more childish than they’ve been.
Yeah mate. I think us animators should tell stories in a more serious and intimate way that also adults can relate with.... I think one great animation series that captures the beauty of friendship in a way teens or young adults can relate with is The big lez show, the show is in an imaginary world and tells stories with islands becoming giant monsters but it's basically an adult show teaching you the meaning of life in a playful humorous way. Lol lema stop preaching about The Big lez show but that's an example of a great 2D animated film that I think is basically for adults.
I'm currently studying film and TV production at University, and one of the great things that really inspired me was on my first day of my composting animation (VFX) class, my teacher was very vocal about how animation is *"the purest form of cinema."* I couldn't agree more. It's been said a thousand time before, but with animation, your only limit is your imagination.
So, I have worked in animation, currently doing my Masters degree in directing animation, and I am more positive about the current state of animation! Recently one of our alumni came back in to talk about what the industry is like, she's a producer at Cartoon Network, and in summary right now it is THE best time it has ever been to get into the industry. There are more pieces of work being produced but also more people are financing it seeing as how popular it has become, one of them being the long steady growth of anime in the west. I think the caveat here is though it's not necessarily film, but more television, apps and web content. Netflix starting their own animation division has made everyone else want to be a part of that pie too. I think the one thing that has made this the most interesting to look at is that animation for films costs sooooooo much more compared to live-action, kind of why you have to treat them like a blockbuster so you play it safe and target it at the safest audience, children. So the future is brighter I think, but probably not for film, even then film in cinemas is also declining too so they are both going away slowly hand in hand...
Animation is not just for kids, it can be intelligent for children, and fun for adults. I know that there will be a future for people to take animation seriously, it just takes time and a whole lot of support to make that happen.
The thing that has pained and depressed me the most about Laika is the amount of lackluster screenplays they've chosen to adapt to stop-motion. There's no experience that saddens me more than sitting through a stunningly animated, beautifully imagined, arduously hand-crafted stop-motion film...and having the story be thoroughly uninteresting and cliche. While know some people liked it, personally I felt that way about Kubo and the Two Strings. Seeing the BTS footage of the animators spending years and years painstakingly crafting that movie frame-by-frame made it feel all the more depressing that to me, it just turned out to be a pretty mediocre story. In a lesser sense, I felt similarly about Isle of Dogs. I think if we're going to see a resurgence in something like stop motion, which is an artform that I adore, animation studios are going to need to step up their screenwriting game and be sure the movies they spend years making will offer more than just pretty visuals. They need to offer screenplays that genuinely connect.
Yeah, I do tend to agree with you there. With the exception of Coraline, I think their writing game tends to be pretty weak. Kubo, for as well directed as it is, doesn't even have a top-notch script. And Missing Link - for as great as it looked - had some terribly weak characters.
I completely agree with you on Kubo, the story was so predictable and the villain felt tacked on. I always say nothing can save a weak script, no matter how good the visuals looks
I agree. A friend really hyped up Kubo for me before I even considered watching it. When it came on Netflix I sat down and gave it my full attention. To my disappointment, I found it full of plot holes and difficult to invest in the characters. I surely hope Laika comes up with some better scripts because I don't want to see them close either.
Great video. It should be noted how different the attitudes to animation are in the far east (particularly Japan). It's similar to how France views comic books (bande dissinees), in the notion that these are worthy artforms, and serious methods of expressive communication. It's ridiculous, biased and fundamentally ignorant how some countries denigrate certain means of expression... Seen as kids' stuff, putting them at the bottom of the Arts hierarchy. Seems silly, myopic and short-term money based.
Well, about French viewed comic books as a work of art? Talking about The Adventures Of Tintin. Sadly, American comic books (especially Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, etc.) were meant for profits instead of an art form.
I'm currently a Freelance animator working in the industry and I can't emphasys my frustration at times for wanting to create and work exciting and different animation to find myself stuck working on 'money jobs'. I feel it is a gamble to creating exciting new stuff but maybe the answer it to press on and make what you want and let the audience find you. You'll be surprised whos out there
I absolutely love Ghibli Fest! I took my Dad, who always thought animation was for children, to see 3-4 of the movies for the first time and he is now a huge fan of Studio Ghibli. He started collecting some of the movies on Blu-ray and has a small Totoro figure on his office desk.
Really the argument bemoaning the lack of technically and creatively diverse animated movies sounds just like the criticism of most of cinema: that mass appeal trumps creativity. It's the sad truth that the people who, (like myself) find the live action CG animal movies and rubber slapstick CG animal movies to be tedious and unappealing are in the minority. The vast majority of movie-goers just want spectacle or cheap laughs. I love movies, and I know this is a film channel, (which I think is great btw, good job) but film animation meant for theaters will always be this way. Netflix and streaming services are really where animators should be looking to do their greatest work. Way more flexibility, way less risk. And I think that theatrical releases in general is a gimmick that we need to let die. Not the theaters themselves, just the industry that caters to releasing theatrically. (Keeping theaters smaller and running older movies, or TV miniseries, or start making serials again would be pretty amazing. But throwing millions at one shot movies is wasteful and rarely pays off unless it's designed from the ground up to be a blockbuster.) The concept of big Hollywood movies is a dinosaur that we as a society have been keeping on life support because... well I'm not sure. Maybe because the century old mystique of going to the movies is too grand. But it really hurts to see truly talented animators and studios dashed on the teeth of profit margins.
Reminder that TV and the internet is also a huge part of the animation industry. There are always at least a couple super weird, cool, high quality anime series each year, Netflix is constantly just throwing everything at the wall and some of it really sticks, and there's always a neverending stream of independent and student short films. Look beyond the theatres.
Animation is important for the future. Animated stories aren't much like live action but they can tell a story with only visuals and make the impossible possible
I think the issue nowadays is less a mislabelling of computer generations as live action and moreso a failure in communication. At least from what I've been exposed to, when folks complain about the state of the animation industry right now... They are referring to how underrepresented traditional 2 animation is. For most people I would argue, the term animation means cartoon.
I work as a independent/freelance animator and the issue that comes up is money. Every person I have worked with that were non-animators have little to no clue the cost and time that is put into animation. Another issue is working with someone who doesn't understand animation is not as "grounded" as live action and don't want to take risks, then they're like "Why is this so boring?" Well, you wanted this, so I don't know, you tell me.
I’m in school for film right now and all the really great shorts that I’ve seen come out of our animation department have been 2D, and have been legitimately touching narratives. Artists and students are interested in that format but it’s up to the studios themselves to make it a lucrative and worthwhile medium to those future artists
In the US - or N. America as a whole - most of the best artists working in animation tend to work in TV animation...it's a more fertile ground for creativity.
As much as some people complain about Calarts and what not, there really is more variety in TV animation in the US than in movies, both in term of visual styles and story telling. Even big names like BH6, MLP, Teen Titans, TMNT get more explorative with the medium than most of the 3D giants ever do, and it's been like that for nearly two decades now...
@@LutraLovegood It's funny how people keep blaming on the "Cal-Arts style" for everything, even though Cal-Arts is a school for animation and the creator of Steven Universe, which they think it's considered to be the "origins" of that style, is not even a Cal-Arts graduate.
Hi! I'm an animator in university currently nearing the end of my third and final year. We're currently in the "blocking" phase of animating our two short films at the moment. My perspective is basically the same as yours - I just want more diversity and variety in animation. Everyone in my degree - students and staff - loves Spiderverse, not just for its incredible style, but also because it told a fantastic story better than 99% of live-action superhero films. I think part of the issue with Laika's films is unfortunately in their marketing. I hardly heard a thing about Missing Link, only to see it not have a wide release around me in Australia. It was also "another bigfoot/yeti movie". Captain Underpants was another one that didn't play in my normal cinema of choice, and even just "normal" films don't get as wide a release as possible either, like when I couldn't find a screening of Shape of Water. I think we all just want a variety of style in animation - mature stories, child-friendly stories, 3D, 2D, stop-motion, anything! Just not another Minions, and not another "live-action" remake of a beloved classic that basically says that the original shouldn't be taken seriously because it's a stylised 2D film. Thanks for the good video!
Couldn't agree more, its wonderful to see a nice broad spectrum of world animation being looked at here, rather than just the Major American studios. Working in the industry, you see exceptionally talented people who's hands are tied by 'safe' animation projects. Studios and companies want to have a safe hit that makes money, but it doesn't mean there's no room for creativity, especially in CG animation. I just want to say, working with CG I can really appreciate the work that goes into their features; it is extraordinary! So beautiful! It's amazing how much work goes into getting something right. In my opinion the issues always fall down to story, and I don't think it's a new phenomenon, with every hit there will always be other works with story issues. Ralph Bakshi said animation is about story and style together and when they get in sync (Like Spiderverse) the impact changes the industry, because the shackles of the animation teams are free to explore the ideas they've always had. People are super creative, but from what I've seen, they're bound to a long financial pipeline that is designed to mitigate the risk of losing money, because the studios are spending a lot of money to earn back those delicious dollar bills.
Went to a screening for the animated films up to win the 2019 oscars. Mamoru Hosoda, the director of Mirai, said that he believes 2D animation is going to die. He said almost no one is learning the craft and 2D films are much less popular so the studios are closing down and people who used to be full time 2D animators are looking for different jobs or retiring. Because of that it’s getting harder and harder to find an animation team that can do 2D.
I don’t work in the animation industry, but I think the problem is that many major studios are the ones that believe animation will only garner to children, hence why we get movies like Despicable Me, Secret Life of Pets and Ugly Dolls. So now the consumers have fallen for the notion and believe that animation is only for children, and since hardly anyone is trying to prove that statement wrong, then the idea that animation is just for kids has yet to fully disprove itself in their eyes. There are some genuinely great, more mature, CG animated movies like How To Train Your Dragon and Into The Spiderverse, but there aren’t enough of them to inform an audience that animation doesn’t have to be just for kids. Animation is just a medium, and with it, the the only limit is your imagination. Not enough people can appreciate that since even studios believe that it’s just an easy way to garner to a large audience and make money.
Well, animation is a medium that meant for everyone. If Illuminations Studio focused more on mature themes and serious topics, it would be a different studio than what it is now. At least for Illuminations, in my opinion, has life lessons despite the stories were predictable and the CGI animation was decent.
Ya I agree I really want to see an animated film focus on mature and serious topic theme but it includes a little more realistic using actual guns or knife cuz it make more sense
Definitely thought that Spiderverse defined a new push into the animation industry and an art form. Not only did it introduce a new style and form of animation that beautifully integrated CGI and traditional animation and techniques to tell a story visually, but also opened new doors to animators and artists alike. I think with this new generation, there's hope that kids as they grow up, will learn that it's okay to enjoy animation as an adult and still enjoy animation. Since we have adults who are now more confident and open about watching animation not as something for kids, but can be enjoyed by adults in a more mature context and art form. Now, animators, both new and old, have to fight and continue to make animation that speaks more than just something catered to children. I find it so frustrating when people don't see animation as a way to express emotional and mature themes in such a unique and much more impactful way than a live action or a regular movie can.
I’m a freshman at the VFS Classical Animation course (just technically, classes start next week), and in my opinion, the greatest threat to animation at the moment really is the public perception of it. It’s truly tragic that so many fantastic films are ignored because they’re considered inherently inferior by the masses for being animated. But though the situation may seem dire, I don’t think animation is at a risk. I think that as long as there are animation-lovers who are displeased with the current state of things, there’ll be an increase in production, and the variety of these productions, their themes and styles... and that‘ll occasionally generate animated productions that will entice and interest previously close-minded viewers. Might seem too optimistic, but I have to believe in something like this in order to keep going.
Another aspect of modern animation is how accessible it is now. As someone who started animating in super 8, there are now professional quality tools for 2 and 3d out there, some are costly, some are free and some fall in between.anyone interested can make something now. On their own. They might not have box office, but they get seen on you tube and other services, its its own world not really driven by mAking money but by getting your story and work out there. Not to mention all the instructional and short comedy shorts out there.
On the note of animated Paul Thomas Anderson- id kill for a version of Phantom Thread animated like a 50’s Disney movie like Cinderella- swirls and shadows and long lines and dresses 💕 I was talking about that with my sister the other day so when you said that I was reminded
I started my animation major just about when people were figuring out that traditional animation was dying. I didn't hear that from the outside, I heard that from my professors. I hadn't really thought about it till further into my degree but the films that inspired me to pursue 2d as my career weren't from America at all. they were Japanese films, French films. in fact, the last American animated anything that inspired me was lilo and stitch. I realized the fact that in the states, animation was not taken seriously, which was shocking to me because my passion for the medium only grew with age. I got upset when I examined the state of American animated films. pumping out the same 3d animated feature with uninteresting character design, the most unimaginative of plots and pop culture referenced that serve no purpose . (and i love 3d animation, dont get me wrong) not even Disney was animating anymore, it seemed. it was live action remake after live action remake or if they did animate, it was sequel after sequel. all the big companies everyone dreamed of working for were in California, making it a small yet highly competitive and uncertain field. but even if you fought hard enough to get to the top would you even be happy with the projects you'd spend years working on? As an animator thinking about the future in my field, that's a scary thought. Spiderverse was really a breath of fresh air, even as a 2d animator, I was excited for what it represented for animation as a whole, but honestly going forward, I don't know if there will be another film like it. I'd just hope that the industry would come to value passion as well as profit. I didn't mention tv animation, even though that's a 2d gold mine for the most part, not to mention I wanted to work for tv animation anyway. I have arguments for that line if work too, though, that would take too long to type. the American animated film market was just the most troubling issue.
The biggest disappointment for me is when Kubo lost the Oscar for Best Animated Film to Zootopia. It made me realize that the winner will almost always be a Disney film, no matter how good the opposition is.
Even this year, they went with Disney/Pixar. I guess saying "Black Lives Matter" is more important than saying "Stop Asian Hate." Seriously though, that was the exact predicament that the Academy was in.
Thank you for making this video. I am retired from the Animation Industry and I totally agree with you. Animation is not taken seriously here in the US, actually I refer to Animation as the "bastard red-headed orphaned step child of the film industry". I started working in the industry back in the 70's on Saturday morning material, TV commercials and Animated specials. I worked on a couple of indy short films until I graduated into doing feature Animation in the mid to late 80's. Most of the film were total bombs mainly because the releasing studios did not seriously market them properly. Warner's was the biggest culprit at that time. The "suits" were always demanding changes to the material we were working on to fit a "G" rating and their marketing for very small children. I worked on "Rover Dangerfield" and they demanded several changes to elements in the story until the movie was sucked dry of all its adult humor. I worked on serval films after that until 1999 when jobs disappeared because of cost. (Disney's Lion King was partly to blame for this, but that's a rant for another time) Anyway, the first "Toy Story" movie was released and took off. It was a hit with critics and made a lot of money. Michael Eisner at Disney took notice and decided to shut down the traditional animation department in favor of digital. A number of studios followed suit and even some new digital studios opened up and the market as you know now, became flooded with digital animated movies. The studios felt that Digital was the way to go and people wanted to see these types of film over traditionally hand drawn Animation. So there we are...
Hey there! I'm a Layout Artist working in CG Animated Features. I agree with alot of your points, and while I don't have much experience with the "independent" side of the industry (only big-budget cg) I do look towards them with hope, due to their typically smaller budgets and larger scope for creative uses of the medium. Telling stories that aren't dulled down for a younger audience but are instead good stories. We get them every once in a while from a major studio (Spider-Verse, etc.) and I always appreciate the technical artistry behind them because of the work put in, but it doesn't give me the same feeling as watching Anime has ever since I picked that up over a year ago. For a main entertainment medium for a country (from my understanding), they are creating and telling so many unique and compelling stories through animation that western studios would never fund. From TV to Features, they're telling stories that can just be a 'slice of life', a simple romance or the complicated mix of fantasy with sci-fi. The range of animation content is astounding, although the working conditions are not as good. Another point I feel, is the idea of animation simply being a 'genre' for kids/family movies that has risen over the years thanks to the likes of major studios. Animation, is not a genre. It's a medium that can be used to express any story, much like the paint a painter chooses or the clay a sculpter creates with.
I work in the independent animation industry. But after reading Bleep Bleep's comment, I can say that it is my dream to build a network here in LA, and then move us all to Montana and make animated films from there.
The problem, as I see it, has nothing to do with cgi vs traditional animation, but with the studio process itself. Several people, mostly animators and comedians, have told stories about what it's like to work on those Dreamworks-type animated films. First, they make the movie. Then, they bring in comedians to ad-lib witty lines over it. Then they reanimate and fully render the movie to incorporate their jokes. Patton Oswalt said in an interview that he once offhandedly said during one of these session, "you know, you guys would save a ton of money if you brought us in to do this before you started making the movie." And the studio guy he was talking to was floored, and wanted him to elaborate. The basic idea of pre-production has disappeared from the film-making process! With traditional animation (as you once said in a video), you can't really edit anything after it's done. With cgi, there are different levels of "done." The studio can give notes all throughout the process. This is expensive for the film, but creates job security for the producer. If the movie does well, they can say, "I'm responsible for that. I told them they had to include this element, and that's why we made money. Because of what I said." If the movie bombs, they can say, "I can only do so much, but I'm still just another cog in the big machine. Sure, I'm great, but it was the lousy directors, animators, and writers that fouled up our movie." In short, traditional animation means a producer must relinquish control to the artists, which is a suit's worst nightmare.
thank you so much for bringing up actually different points for once with this topic. honestly, most of the videos that i've seen lately that are just "myehhhh animation isn't what it used to be :((" are so tiring and groanworthy because they all repeat the exact same points viewed from the same narrow-minded rose-tinted glasses, often worn by people who don't get the animation process to begin with. don't get me wrong, i really do wish there were more genres, mediums, and styles utilized in mainstream animation as well - that is most certainly a valid point! i just don't really like that people think that that this is a wholly new phenomenon. back in the '90s, every other major studio was trying to ape off the disney renaissance in some way for many of their films, much like how they ape off of pixar/dreamworks now, for better or for worse. i'm so glad that you actually took the time to talk about the ever-growing indie and foreign scenes - you're actually the first person i've ever seen talk about them, it honestly drives me up the wall that no other film youtubers ever mentioned it when talking about this topic. i'd personally say that animation is around the same sort of shape it has been for the past two decades, it's just taken on a different form. sure there are more sequels and reboots and shit, but that's more of a hollywood symptom than something specific to animation. but now the indie scene is gonna grow more than ever with the increasing popularization of blender, and there are plenty more exciting developments in animation that'll keep you on my toes. i should know, i'm studying animation for crying out loud. apologies for this essay of a comment, these thoughts have been brewing in my head for a while now lol
First of all, great video as always. I'm an italian animator and comic book artist, so cut me some slack for any grammatical error I'll make, my italian autocorrect doesnt help. I partecipated as a kind of colorist for an italian/french docufilm called "Samouni Road", great stuff, almost 8 years in the making, i was called in with other colleagues in the last year of production in order to finish it in time for Cannes 2018. We succeded but, I have to say, only with a lot of State funds and such from every single italian region from where we worked. Actually every movie in Italy now sussists on state funds, the opening of our movie is minutes and minutes of logos of state agencies, art funds and region administrations. I thinks it's because we don't have strong producers who are able to fund a movie by themselves (I could start talking about our economic situation here but it would a loooong comment). The only studio who is strong enough to try and make a full length animation movie by itself is Rainbow, creator of the Winx franchise, that recently released in theaters "gladiators of Rome" a comedy movie for children with very little ambition. Yet some kind of new italian animation is on the rise I think, in the last "Gatta cenerentola" released and had great critical reviews, we have the Turin school of cinema animation course which could be compared to Paris Gobelins school in quality and a lot of indipendent artist as Simone Massi (my lead animator and art director for Samouni Road) who strive to bring forward the artistic research of this medium. I myself, with a couple of colleagues, am trying to develop a concept and find producers for a full length animated indie movie because so many of talented people who I attended school with is currently forced to work in factories or change line of work because of recession and the creation of this movie could potentially form a new italian animation studio. We are gonna see, let's cross fingers.
Hi ! Thank you so much for your videos, especially about animation. I’m an animation student from Gobelins school, in Paris, and trust me here this is all we are about, trying to figure out how to make movies that are animated, and not animated movies. « Animation is not a genre, it’s a medium » It’s funny that you make this video now because I never leave comments on yt but I’ve been wanting to let you know about a movie that we’ll be coming out in November in France and I hope in theaters in the US too, it’s called I lost My Body. It’s from a book and it’s not for kids, not for family, it’s cinema and it’s damn good !!! (It was screened at Annecy Festival this year so I had the opportunity to watch it) I hope you’ll be able to see it because it’s exactly what we are all waiting for. Here in France the production/distribution system is very different. Young authors have a public financial support system that allow them to develop many nice projects. But often it’s not enough for feature films, and most importantly no one knows how to sell and distribute the movies when they are made. I’m thinking about Rémy Chayé’s film Long Way north, French feature that was good imo but that was awfully distributed and made half the money it was expected to make. I often think about how we can change the public’s expectations about animation and convince them to watch more, and it reminds me of French New Wave and how many different directors from the same movement managed to break Hollywood and classic cinema’s rules. I think this will take more than one movie. Still I’m hopeful because the people who grew up with anime are grown up now and they are more open to animation I think. Anyways there s a lot of things to say about all this and I share my thoughts pretty chaotically but thank you again for sharing your ideas on this misunderstood but infinitely interesting subject. I’ve been watching all of your videos from the time you had 5k subs and they are my lights in the abyss of yt algorithm !!
That same year 'April and the Extraordinary world" was released, there was another movie from France which I'd highly recommend if you love different styles of animation. It's called Longway North (Toute En Haute du Monde, 2014) won several awards in festivals.
Hi! I've been a children's television animator since 2015, and I love watching your videos. Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse has really made me excited about the future of animation. While it didn't do as financially-well as previous Spider-Man films, it won the Oscar for Best Animated Feature (a rare feat for a non-Disney/Pixar film), and became hugely popular as a fandom, generating a ton of fan art/animation/works by artists and creators. Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse has such a striking animation aesthetic for such a mainstream film (though I imagine it being a certainly helped with it getting its style greenlit), so I hope that other filmmakers will look at it, look at its success, and follow it, leading to more animated films with different art directions.
As a Motion Grapher trained in a tradicional animation college I love your animation history essays and that you appreciated Gkids, they curated and distributed the best current animation films. I also don’t care for the hole state of Disney remakes, I think Walt would be revolving if he saw it. Keep it up!
Animation major here, and I’ve actually been doing an experiment. I’ve been watching the most acclaimed feature length animated film from each year (starting at 1926) and I’d actually say the medium is getting better and better. Of course there will always be crap out there but I find that in the earlier years, animated films were usually fewer in numbers each year and typically stuck to the same story tropes. These days, animation is much less predictable, both narratively and visually with films like Loving Vincent, Anomalisa, Its Such A Beautiful Day, Kubo, Spiderverse, Boy and the World, Isle of Dogs and lord above am I excited for this year’s Klaus. And I don't care what anyone says, Gravity is an animated film. The major studios tend to work off of whats marketable, while Pixar sort of leads the wave with their creativity and state of the art animation. However with the rise of independent animation, we’re seeing all sorts of unique and narratively challenging animated films spring up all over the place. Im pretty excited to see where animation goes in the coming years and look forward to hopefully being a part of it.
@@CunningCondor You mean the actors' bodies aren't? I didn't know that! The line between animation and live-action is getting thinner and thinner. Thank you for clarifying! :) :D
I'm an animation student and also graduated in audiovisual comunication. The animation industry is always offering varied and intersting films and short films, it's just really hard to get major distribution and people asses on the seats. This is funny to me, because people consume animation all the time, but since it's put alongside live action this audiences don't notice. Like 80% of Avengers movies is animation, we are watching more animation than ever. I think we should back releases like Claus on Netflix, so independent animation has a better chance of reaching a wider audience beyond cinema. And most importantly, educate the public about animation and how often it's used in movies, because animation isn't a genre as Brad Bird once said. Sorry for the long comment, love your content.
I’m a stop-motion animator at the time of writing this comment. I currently do Marvel Stop-Motion videos with toys/actions figures. I want to do more original stories later next year. But I had no Idea that Laika and other studios were barely breaking even if not flopping financially. It’s really disheartening to hear. I’ll definitely try and do my best to support smaller studios. I really don’t care that much for the stuff we get now in theaters.
Hi there, I'm a production manager in the french animation industry and we have the same issue in France towards animation than the US : it's mostly seen as a kid thing and through the Disney lens. We released a lot of good kids animated movies that are distributed in the US but hardly visible, like Ernest and Celestine, Aunt Hilda, Days of the Crows, or even movies you can't even see, like The Big Bad Fox and Other Tales..., My Life as a Courgette or Long Way North, all of them in 2D (one in stop motion). These movies aren't correctly distributed in France either, because they don't look like Disney, because they are made by smaller studios than Illumination, who stole the french animation market in theatres a few years ago. We can't battle against these kinds of giants. But we are mostly working, for TV and theatres production, on 2D shows and movies. I would LOVE to make the films previously listed well known all around the world, but against the american and japanese productions, it's very difficult. We even do adult animated movies, like Funan or The Swallows of Kabul, but french distributors don't know how to sell them to theatres and they mostly stay a couple of weeks on screen before being retired.
Laika was invested in by Phil Knight (the founder of nike) and his son Travis was an animator there and is now president and ceo so they could loose money for a long time before they need to pull the plug. Phil Knight is worth 33 billion
I think that there's somewhat of a whole in the "AAA animation industry" after the big companies losing steam, that will sooner or later be filled by a new generation of great animation studios, we just have to wait.
For as experimental as it was, and as a result it was time-consuming, Loving Vincent was a massive box office success, grossing over 40 million USD under a budget of 5.5 million. Chances are that the buzzwords such as "World's first painted movie" helped out on ticket sales, but other than that, the demand for mature animated movies is out there. It just needs to be injected onto the masses.
I am an animator currently working in the industry. I think that most animated features are being judged by some standards that they are not created with the intention to reach. Angry Birds is purely a fun movie full of visual jokes. Isle of Dogs is a great movie telling a story in a very elegant and smart way. Into the Spiderverse is a very cool action, fresh and visually stunning animated movie. This is a very personal opinion but I think each movie has its strengths and reaches to a certain degree the artistic purpose to what it was created for. Not to say that comedies can't be better in the animation format but I'm saying that it's a huge accomplishment from the beginning of production with great quality in all the movies mentioned and still making a lot of money on it. Not all studios are aiming at Pixar deep stories. Sony is the one who explores the most styles if you think. Cloudy with chances of meatballs was inspired by UPA . HotelTransylvania was created by the master Gendy Tartakovsky and has it's own very distinguishable style. Into the SpiderVerse was another completely different approach to animation. So many great aspects you can appreciate on animated movies from many different studios and styles that I find unfair to judge them all based only on one standard. I love Isle of Dogs, and I also love Boss Baby or Angry Birds for very different reasons. There is a great market in animation and now with the amazing, Love Death+Robots proven to be a big success, I believe studios will finally start exploring more of the serious, normal or more adult stories, but a movie can be silly, can be deep, can have bad sound editing but an amazing story, can make you cry or giggle. As long as they are not all the same. The industry has a lot to push and unfortunately, major corporations are a bit stiff when it comes to story decisions making them being all a bit too similar storywise, but the thousands of artists behind the scenes are all contributing with a lot of passion and skills to make a movie like Moana be completely enjoyable yet distinct from Kung Fu Panda, another comedy masterpiece! Those are my two cents and I hope it makes sense. I love your channel and the work you've been doing!
I work as an animator in the commercial space not the film industry but we face similar problems with clients. I work at studio goblin, a small British studio, we’ve been trying to hand drawn animation to balance out the overweight amount of simple Corporate motion graphics video. You’d be surprised how often clients love our stuff and want us to create for them, it’s easy to say “people don’t want this” but when you offer it directly to them, they often take it because they didn’t know they wanted it till you offered it. Think the film industry is the same at the moment, it’s easy for people to say “well those kind of animated films won’t sell!” But until someone actually makes them and treats them with respect when distributing we won’t know for sure. Do we make as much as other animation companies who do motion graphics? No But do we feel a geat deal of pride in providing our hand drawn work? You bet we do! Not quite what you were expecting i’m sure lol but as a fan of your work and a animator i felt compelled to give my two scents
Thanks for this thoughtful analysis and commentary - we are encouraged by our fans all over the world and are committed to continuing to make animation that offers another perspective
As a freelance animator, I am dazzled by the possibilities of the medium. Right now the thinking is dominated by studiothink which is essentially based on bottom lines. In time, as the software improves, it will become the tool of individual visions, and then we will begin to see some of its true promise. Which is not to say that what studios are producing aren't dazzling in their own right.
Hi I'm an animator! I understand in the context of this video you were focusing on theatrical releases, but I never understand how people can just ignore what's happening in television animation right now when they talk about 2D being dead.
Not a proffesional animator,but I love to animate/ draw in my free time. I think one of the biggest problems IMO is that people still see animation as a genre and not as the medium of art that it is. The majority of people think that animation is for kids and it isnt worth their time. Animation is an artform and should be viewed as one and I hope one day we will reach the point where the majority thinks that way. Untill then... we should support animated movies wher we can
Animator here, you already articulated many of the grievances associated with the state of animation today. so I’ll just throw this in - mature & intelligent animated cinema is alive and well in the independent animation scene, which, in the US, is currently a bit of an underground grassroots movement. Most of the cutting edge stuff associated w the medium are slowly starting to see the limelight with the recent resurgence of animation film festivals popping up in the US. If you haven’t checked it out already, GLAS (one of said emerging festivals) is releasing a feature-length anthology of select animated shorts called “ANIMATION NEXT” for theatrical distribution, and is also doing a kickstarter campaign for their 2020 festival, which you can support here: www.kickstarter.com/projects/glasanimation/glas-animation-festival-2020?ref=project_link The animation you crave is alive and well, it’s only recently that it’s nearly bubbling to the surface. But the fresh talent & perspective is there.
Missing Link is my favourite film of 2019 and to see it failing legit breaks my heart. I even recommend Zootopia/Zootropolis to many people and they either think about it but forget about it or do not like how it looks by the trailers. Trailers need to be improved and marketed more properly.
Animation graduate here. I think one of the problems is the difficulty for animation to be financially viable. It takes a long time and you need resources to really make something great. There are LOTS of amazingly talented people with fresh visions and ideas, but its difficult for them to make stuff. In this field if you want money you usually end up pitching a project to the few big established studios that could want it and end up with the producers overseeing your project, or go the independent route building a team and painfully and slowly grow until the point of being able to make your own projects with no restrictions. Of course there are exceptions and you can get investors, maybe a kickstarter or make a career for yourself until you can create your own projects but each path is difficult on its own.
You aren’t the only one who wants to or try to break the stigma. The freedom to break convention while maintaining quality is something I want to strive for. Currently a student in college but oh man what I’d give to be in a world where the playing field is leveled.
6 of my top 10 favourite films are animated - animation can do things far more elegantly and artistically than many live-action films because of how deliberate and intentional each individual frame of the overall image is. It's this attention to detail, particularly with traditional hand-drawn or hand-animated animation, that gives it its great depth of expression. That being said, there is plenty of tawdry, shallow animation which sadly makes up the majority of modern CGI animated fare in America and cheaply produced anime series in Japan, but when the true artists are working their magic, animation is a wonder to behold. Perhaps one day animation will be widely considered 'a medium' not just simply 'a genre of film' as it often is today.
isolation. last thing I animated was a year ago, no $, notebook paper, pencils, 7 day trial of Premiere: 12 hour days for over two weeks straight, alone in a room hunched over for a two minute accomplishment viewed by family and friends most of whom mayve been better served by my direct attention than my absence (broken by email which read like an advertisement for my hopes and dreams --- inadequately supported by a link to an average looking cartoon of a dog that runs like it swims) limitation of scope/scale due to lacking resources requires the expansion of isolation/lonliness to complete projects of greater visual quality --- but even with this advantage there is no guarantee such projects will be received with more than negligible response --- there is no counting on quality/talent to reach an audience --- but say there is and animating for more hours means solidification of this personal means of expression as lifeblood --- there is only one definitive outcome of the isolation required to succeed and expand as a solo animator: isolation. When I set my mind to something I do until it breaks me (would say 'makes or breaks' but I've never dipped my toe into any kind of artistic success), I love to animate - but the idea of being broken and alone because of the loneliness required to complete some thing in animation - is a main reason I personally avoid the lightbox
I’m studying animation and I agree with you. What people don’t get, along with animation telling a story visually, is that it exaggerates reality, not duplicates it, as mentioned by one of the great animators in history. It’s not that I’m against CGI, it’s just that these recent films are more along the lines of tech demonstrations. Also, major studios spend more of their budgets marketing and merchandising a film than actually making it. We should all take Walt Disney’s quote about movies and money to heart.
Animation to me is like home cooking. Grandma's method might be the more difficult, but damn it tastes good. I especially think that certain animation studio's should feel obligated to uphold a certain standard in a diverse range of animation methods. Studios like Disney shouldn't abandon their older methods, and conform to the newest cheap standard. They should be able to juggle a variety of mediums. Including ones that cost WAY to much. They are Disney after all.
Thank you! I hate how many are saying animation has gone downhill because all they focus on is the us made stuff when companies like GKIDS are helping give animation it’s variety and life. The entire animation fandom kind of sucks because of ignorance and being unaware of what really is out there. People just need to go see them. If they are nearby, then go see them. They could use all of the support they can get. I also think the audience is to blame for crying about originality, but then let Missing Link bomb I’m a much more aware animation enthusiast so I’m way more positive about the situation.
So I don't know if you know this, but Laika is run by Phil Knight's Son Travis. Phil Knight, the owner of NIKE, is also one of the Members of their Board of Executives. I don't have proof of this, but it is a general understand for us in the Portland Animation community that the only reason Laika is still around is that connection to NIKE.
I'm currently studying animation. Where I live we only have one very small animation studio and they don't do anything special with the medium, despite having a chance to explore new territory with it. Being completely unknown I believe we have a chance to experiment and explore new things with the medium. We have nothing to lose.
Animation has always been regarded by Hollywood as something not to be taken too seriously (cue the almost never ending stream of cutesy silly talking animal cgi rubbish out there, aimed mostly at kids - which is not to say there isn’t good stuff in there. But most of it is not aimed at intelligent storytelling etc). I think whatever is cost-effective, quick to make, and doesn’t cause a fuss is what Hollywood likes...which is mostly CG. Not the mediums fault either, just lousy and lazy choices made with it because it happens to be a quicker one than stop-motion or 2D. But those two mediums are most certainly not dead. And whilst never huge money spinners anymore, that does not mean they are redundant. SpiderVerse was CG, but also had terrific storytelling etc. As did the earlier Pixar stuff (even if the technology has dated - but the storytelling hasn’t). I think the internet is a fantastic place to keep animation in all forms alive and appreciated, even if cinema (well, mainly Hollywood) doesn’t appreciate it so much...though of course it is appreciated more outside Hollywood. I love Ghibi’s output, as well as Laika’s, and (from my own country) Cartoon Saloon’s...and of course all the independent stuff (including my own) out there. Animation will never die out as an art form - whatever the format - even if never being huge at the box office. It’s an art form first, not a genre that falls in or out of fashion.
just thank you, there are a lot of people (and youtubers) who just watch big american animation studios and thing with that have the entire picture of the industry
I can't believe this was the way I received the news of Willams passing :( ... I've been dreading this inevitable moment for the past few years. So weird to think of the fateful gifset from 2013 of The Thief and the Cobbler that made me immediately fall in love with his art. Always had some farfetched dream to shake his hand and thank him for his work. I hope all of us who wanna work in animation can attempt to push Williams' vision forward and push the medium into places no one's taken it before--both for him and all the other brilliant animators who shaped the art form. Rest in peace you absolute legend. August 16, 2019... the day Animation died!
I'm also seeing studios like Cartoon Saloon and SPA Studios make a dent into the animation sphere. I would love to see, not only 2D animation reemerge, but other avenues the medium can explore. Have great directors take a crack at animation, and promote them as high art.
You should check out everything related to french animation, specially sylvian chomet films. Also what ever is in the feature film selection in the Annecy animation festival each year.
I'm an animation student, and I agree its super sad to see that animation in the U.S. cant achieve its full potential; there's a negative stigma associated with it. I'm going to make movies one day, hopefully great ones, and i refuse to tell a story that's restricted to a certain audience. There's a video somewhere, where Ralph Bakshi commented on art students being sad they couldn't work for Disney, Pixar, or other major studios. He essentially said stop, go and make your own films; get a bunch of friends together in your garage, starve for a year, and make a film. Its likely my movies will flop or ill go broke, but ill have told the story i wanted to tell. Do it for the sake of sharing your art, not making money. ( Sorry for grammar and punctuation, I'm an art student)
Gkids is still a newer distribution compony for animation in other countries, at least in comparison to other distribution companies like Funimation and Aniplex (which mostly specialize in anime, which is literally just traditional animation from japan). Funimation mostly focuses on TV anime, but when they step into theatrical releases, I think I heard they've done pretty well. I know the American limited release of the My Hero Acadamia: Two Heroes Movie beat out a lot of other movies that came out that weekend. To be fair though the My Hero movie did have the added benefit of being attached to an extremely popular TV Anime. point is, just give Gkids some time and they probably will be doing pretty well at the Box Office.
I work full-time as a 3d animator for a tv series (and part-time on my own in youtube) and there's a lot of what you said in this video that resonated with what I am seeing in my studio and with my friends from other studios. I think, as a US film category, yeah, animation is not taken seriously. It's seen as a kids' genre, or the really good ones that are too indie and won't be as popular enough. It's alive and well in the European market though, the studio I work in make tv series and films for that side. But as a medium, animation is booming here in the US, it's just not as seen as animation. Every blockbuster hit for a decade now has VFX in it, and practically every single vfx entity in films has to be animated by talented animators. Every creature, every facial acting, every westeros dragons, the computer and mocap actors can only really do so much, and artists still have to get in there and mess around with it. Creature animation is actually a high-selling skill within the industry. You cannot mocap that, and the level of sensitivity an artist needs to get in order to sell a realistic dragon next to a live-action actress is a masterclass in animation. What's interesting too is the diversity of animation platforms. Netflix just announced that they've already built an animation production house of their own, and disney is pushing for more series in their own streaming service. That's a lot of places for any kind of animator to get involved in. But yeah, it would be cool for a big-time director to get their hands in animation. I could only imagine what a Quentin Tarantino fully animated film would be like. =)
I'm trying to be in the industry. I've been working on my own animated movie for a while, and what I've found, is there is so much animation can do and so many places it can go, that it is seems ridiculous to put in the "just for kids" box
As a fan of animation and one who creates animation/cartoons for a living, I have been noticing an audience shift to more I guess you would say experimental animation. The overly polished look of the major animation studios is pushing audiences away cause they have seen that before. I haven't seen as much excitement towards those films in recent years. People will go see them but I think the audiences are craving more. I think the success of Spiderverse sort of proved that you can have a creative non polished looking, strong storytelling film and people will go see it. However your correct that people need to go support these studios that are making these films. I think in the next couple of years you will start to see more and more smart intelligent and even experimental animated films be on the rise. Though you will probably will see these films on the internet first before seeing them in the box office.
I completely agree with you. I hate how some people disregard all animation just because of some old and misrepresenting prejudices. Lately some guy just admittet, he doesn't even see animated movies as "complete" and "real" movies. And later he stated, that this type of movies "shout for a real adaptation" a.k.a live action remake. Things like that really make me (m/s)ad.
For anyone who craves animation that is taken more seriously than just being a kids movie, I highly recommend looking into Alberto Mielgo‘s work. It may look familiar to some of you, and that’s because he was a creative lead on the look of into the spider-verse. He’s currently working on short films as well as directed an episode of love death and robots (The Witness) and was it was just announced that he’s directing a full length feature soon. I think that once more of his work gets out there, he could really make a difference on the current animation landscape.
I'm so glad you did a video on this! Everytime someone was excited for the new Lion King or Jungle Book I told everything I'd learned from your videos about the original point of animation-- to do what we can't do in the real world. Which is why Into Spiderverse was amazing
This is probably wishful thinking but I believe we will see a rise in mature animated films in the future. A lot of young adults and children have been/or are watching more mature animation. There watching animi, internet animations, and adult animated tv shows like Rick and Monty. Because of this I believe (or at least hope) people will be more open to the idea of animated movies made for mature audiences.
Im a senior level animation student and i am working toward working in frame by frame animation professionally, but there is a constant pressure to focus more on 3D because everyone says that there are no jobs in 2D anymore. There is this collective anxiety among my classmates and professors that if you don't do 3D then you won't get a job and you will have waisted your degree.
Animator here! The Laika situation is pretty interesting. It has the benefit of being owned by Phil Knight (who own Nike) and is (last time I looked) partially run by his son, Travis Knight, who happens to be a knock out director and animator. (Look up the story about how this all came about. It's pretty interesting!) Based on that financial backing, Laika might be able to weather some more flops. Their last film, The Missing Link, was (according to my sources who worked there) their attempt to "sell out" by making a more... "accessible" film. One similar to the "loud noise" examples you cited in your video. They didn't really hit the mark there, clearly, and anyone who watched it would know its storytelling is a far cry from what they were able to accomplish with Kubo. Anyway, that aside Laika does have a commercial division, which certainly helps with paying the bills. I've loved Coraline through Kubo and I'd hate to see Laika close down. I hope that Knight bank account keeps them around for a long time and they retread back to the path they were on with Kubo.
I'm working on my first feature film, a horror movie that combines live action with animation. My previous animation works are mostly, for lack of a better name, "art videos", by that I mean they are made for and usually displayed at art exhibitions and usually don't fall in the category of linear storylines you need to watch from beginning to end. They are more like explorations of atmospheres, moods and techniques. They mostly get a good reception from the public. Normally I see animation used for that purpose made in the art academy has a more abstract, non-figurative form. Though, I see it getting more popular in forms like animated classical paintings that take animation as a "serious" art form. Outside the world of exhibitions, galleries and online niches, there seems to be hope for animated feature films here. A town called panic, co-productions with other countries like Song of the sea and Secret of the Kells, ... Though it's well-known for filmmakers here, you're better off working abroad than hoping for any assistance here. Johan Vandewoestijne AKA James Desert said about film financing in Belgium: "It's a lottery, you have more chance to not get anything than to get anything". To make it even less appealing, Belgian (co-created) movies barely get any local promotion. Which I find strange because one would assume that movies would be promoted a lot more in the country(s) of their makers. I notice myself now with my movie and co-creator Nancy Van Beersel who has a lot more experience with animation and film festivals. If you're not making a documentary or "standard" live action drama, you'll have to dig deep in your own pockets to get your (animated)movie financed. We didn't get much local interest so far, but some of our previous creations and script of our current film got us awards, selections and support from film festivals abroad.
One thing that gives me hope for Laika is that Pinocchio, Fantasia and Bambi were considered the biggest flops ever back in the 40s, and look at them now.
I'm an animator based in Montreal. Thank you so much for your thoughts. I believe in the power of traditonal animation and love the techniques behind it. There are many independant directors who are working hard to bring out their vision. Check out the projects from National Film Board of Canada. The company has some works to do to respect its directors, but it's still a place where many passionate artists gather ( I also started my career from there). I truly believe it will get better. More and more people start to appreciate the sincerity in frames and young artists are eager to work hard for their passion. Thank you for loving animations.
As a CG artist and animation professor, I entirely agree with you, with the small note that purely the art of motion is well reflected in even major studio releases. Good ANIMATION (the art of motion) is alive and well everywhere, but creative application of animation is less commonplace. Overall really nice to see the data, and I too hope you're wrong about Laika :)
One other note, in some cases indie animation feeds off of the technological advances of mainstream CG. As a kinda messy example, the artistic style of Spiderverse could not exist without the advances in rendering and compositing that result from a saturation of CG and large budget movies. It entirely benefits off of the technology and artistic skills that are created by things like Mortal Engines
5:38 I didn't know most of these titles, but the ones I did know are some of my favorite animation films too. You mentioned something about a Gkids streaming service - I wonder if it's available outside the US? A Netflix just for animation would be a godsend - although Netflix itself has been expanding its selection with some quality films. The one I watched recently I really loved was I Lost My Body.
Well, I appreciate a lot your video since it is completely honest about animation status today. Number are useful to see and somehow not that bad, as you commented. I am an animator and storyteller and I am trying to find a way to avoid some products that I do not admire but it is hard, the industry kind of push you towards those ones you do not want to be really part of. Anyway, I hope I can find my own way to contribute to that part of the history of animation persons like Richard Williams and so many others wrote and are nowadays trying to push. I have the feeling that if we are there... then there is hope :)
THANK YOU!!!!! I see every animated feature released by Disney and/or Pixar,but the one thing about going to see them that I absolutely loathe is having to sit through trailers for all the CG-animated crap coming out within the year; I swear to God,it seems like even Dreamworks has given up and has become content to just produce the sort of C-list-celebrity-voiced,pop-music-soundtracked,bad-slapstick GARBAGE aimed at 5-year-olds that the makers clearly don't give a shit if it makes a profit beyond its opening weekend!!! It would be a shame if Laika went under....other than an occasional feature from Wes Anderson and the odd Aardman film that reaches our shores,you don't see a lot of stop-motion features these days. As far as CGI is concerned,despite the fact that it seems to have completely eclipsed traditional style in Hollywood,I still have no problem with it...but I wish they start getting a little more creative visually. The only CG-animation feature made in the last twenty years that didn't look like just another Disney/Pixar wanna-be was *Rango* !
animation is dead....? Have they seen "Spiderman, into the Spiderverse" ? .. how about "The Bread Winner"? I feel like there's hope for animation. 9:40 you, Brad Bird and the rest of us in the animation field. And money will always talk. Hunt out those animated films, see them in theaters... and on streaming platforms. Netflix is coming out strong, but until they share their numbers.... the cinema ratings will hold the most control.
I'm a story-artist who has worked on an animated feature (won't say too much due to it still being in early development and NDAs and what not). The issue with animation is that it is a very expensive medium in America. For instance, Reservoir Dogs was made on a budget of roughly 1.5 million dollars, but to make that movie an animated movie with the level of detail and nuance in the character acting would probably cost closer to 70 million dollars or more.
Animation has the curse that the characters don't act on their own and won't naturally stand up right, speak words on their own, or follow the rules of physics. Making a tracking shot in live-action (as hard as people claim it is) is nowhere as time consuming as it is in an animated film. If I recall, the tracking shot in Ice Age 5 took the movie's entire production length to make. Just one tracking shot...
The cost of high quality animation is animation's biggest curse. I remember once Aaron Blaise told a class I was a part of that roughly 2/3 of a 2D animated movie's budget went into inking and coloring... not the actual animation itself. He said animating it isn't all that expensive and can be made within a relatively short amount of time, but making it "presentable" is what makes it all the more expensive. Essentially if animation stopped trying to be so darn clean and polished more animated movies could be made. This is why "Into the Spiderverse" is a good sign because the animation is "stepped" (more or less) which means they spent a lot less time on the nitty gritty of timing and the animation and focused more on the way the animation is presenting the story.
However, there is still the issue of animation itself is just a ridiculously complicated medium. To compare to live-action movies again, there are many well-received movies that were filmed over the course of two weeks... all of the acting, filming, cinematography, lighting, and what not were done in two weeks. Sure, editing it still takes a while, but a movie like Cars took 6 years to make. Even if animation costs could be reduced, there is still inevitable issue that everything in animation needs to be made, which is highly time consuming and adds to a budget. This means that making even a "cheap" animated film in America would still probably cost $20 million to $40 million.
This is actually why out-sourcing animation is becoming a bigger deal. Illumination makes a lot of their movies in France and I'm pretty sure Blue Sky does as well.
Edit: This isnt to say that the animation that is done in France or in Europe is lower quality. It's not! It's fantastic! The artists out there are insanely good but from what i was told it is cheaper to higher artists from Europe than in America. Someone can correct me if Im wrong, but im looking at Klaus' budget and that movie was made for an insanely low budget for such an absolutely amazing looking film (and it was made in Europe).
My final statement: If animation studios would MOVE OUT OF CALIFORNIA they could reduce the expenses of their movies BY A TON! Personally, I think the movie industry in general is killing itself by having all of their studios in the most expensive regions in America. Animation companies should be out in the middle of nowhere, where the cost of living is super low which means the movie itself doesn't need to make a ton of money. Have a studio where the cost of living is a quarter of what it is in California, so then everyone's standard of living goes up, less crunch time, more sustainability, and then the movie can be made for the quarter of the budget because you are paying people less.
Unfortunately, there is a pretty strong bias (from what I've encountered in the industry) that people in California seem to think that there can't be "great artists" outside of California. The idea is "If you made it to California, then you must be the best of the best. If you can't make it to here, then you aren't fit for animation work". However, this mentality is limiting the potential of animation itself. Talented artists come from everywhere and not every artist wants to move to the most expensive regions of America. Some artists actually WANT TO AFFORD A HOUSE AND HAVE LAND. We need animation studios all over America that are able to tell stories cheaply and effectively so that way the medium itself can broaden its horizons.
That's my opinion from what little I understand about the industry!
Edit: If anything I said is inaccurate or a little bit off, PLEASE feel free to correct me or explain something. I would love to understand more about the business other than my view through the visual development department.
Thanks so much for adding your perspective! I hadn't even considered the California angle you brought up.
@@TheRoyalOceanFilmSociety I don't think anyone born in California considers that the rest of the world is roughly a quarter or less of the cost. I've known people in the art industry who were shocked when they realized in some cities mortgage is only $800 per month. Also California has insane taxes. Animation needs to be somewhere cheap and quiet haha!
(also, I hope no one from California takes offense to this! Just stating my thoughts!)
@@TheRoyalOceanFilmSociety Something I forgot to add: Wide shots and detailed facial acting are expensive. I remember I was pitching a storyboard at a Disney Portfolio Review and I tried to tell the story through mostly extreme wides with few close-ups. The person reviewing my content liked the story, but said that couldn't be done in a movie due to it being very expensive in the long run because all of the sets, environments, and character acting now need to be more detailed. The shots can't be faked like in a close-up where you can only see very little of the background.
However, I'm skeptical if that's the real reason, because The Illusionist (2010) is told completely from wide-angles and that movie didn't cost a fortune. Long story short, there are a lot of complicated cost related issues in animation, like how each dot on the Dalmatians from 101 Dalmatians cost thousands of dollars so they needed to figure out a cost efficient number of dots that can be seen on the screen at a time or like how Hank the octopus from Finding Dory has only 7 tentacles because 8 tentacles would've cost a lot more money and you only really need to see 7 tentacles at max on an octopus because one of them is behind him.
Regardless of all of the difficulties in funding animated movies, making them, rigging them, texturing them, animating them, lighting them, and what not , it is still the only medium where we can have a story about a fish trying to find his lost son and people legitimately cry while watching it or a movie about a bee suing the human race while he possibly has an affair with a human. There are a lot of elements holding animation back but animation also has a ton of freedom to do what it wants.
Hopefully the future turns out alright for animation!
As a new animator, I would like to try this method by doing animation in wanoka. Since its ultra cheap there, and getting a house is easy.
Bleep Bleep Agree 200% Actually: Why not thinking outside North America? I work in an animation studio in Colombia (South America).
We specialize in high quality animation, we work with bigger studios around the world, telling fresh new stories (with so much respect, I think the global industry is tired of telling the same US centered stories).
And our costs are fair! We can do movies for a third of the budget you guys produce.
That’s my thought on the topic. Great conversation! Thanks for sharing your point of view.
*Lesson Of The Day:* Animation isn't a genre. It's a medium that is suitable for EVERYONE and it's a pure art form.
I for one blame Disney for becoming the face of American animation and exclusively making family friendly kids movies.
Nowhere Man
I mean, is that a bad thing? Disney films tend to touch on adult themes.
@@TooCooFoYou Disney movies are the wonder bread of animation. They never go for any deep, thought provoking themes or stories, and any actually interesting ideas they give are very basic.
Anyone who still use "animation is only for kids" words should be punched on their face
@@nowhereman6019
Not all films need to be deep and thought provoking. I'm gonna use Yellow Submarine as an example. It's one of the most recognizable and best animated films of all time, yet the whole film is an hour-and-a-half long animated music video. There's a reason why Disney is as prestige as it is and it's because they excel at what they set out to do, make movies for the general audiences that let's kids be adults and adults be kids.
I’m currently a student studying animation. One thing I have noticed with by just talking to classmates is that we’re tired of seeing the same things over and over again when spiderverse was released everyone saw multiple times. People we inspired to push their projects. We have assignments in my animation class where we have to pick a shot from a film based on a prompt like a throw or jump or run. For a good month people were submitting assignments studying spiderverse. It’s a film that is definitely going to make people want to create bigger and better things even just in school. Love you videos and some of my animation professors have shown you stuff in class so even though you say you’re just a guy looking at box office numbers keep up doing what you’re doing please!
Multiple times, yet it's last in terms of unadjusted worldwide box office for Spider-Man films.
I thought _Isle of Dogs_ and _The Night Is Short, Walk on Girl_ were far superior films overall, but _Spider-Verse's_ animation was definitely remarkable. Just wish its script wasn't so frustrating.
I am so glad I saw that in theaters
Three times
@@Wired4Life2 must be from animation fans. Personally Spider Verse was the closest movie I was tempted to buy a second ticket for than most movies, which is a sign of a great movie, but I held off because of my personal financials, even though I watched it on a discount anyway. Yeah, call me how you want but I saw it, I didn't sleep on it OK
@@TheJiacheng123 I saw it twice for review purposes.
@@Wired4Life2 the overall quality of spiderverse far surpasses any of the live action spiderman movies, it's definitely a lot better than the mcu spiderman movies cause those are garbage
When people say to me "2D animation is dead" I respond with: "In America maybe, but over here in Europe or over in Japan, it's alive and well". A Sylvian Chomet or a Tomm Moore film stands out more to me visually than something from Illumination or Blue Sky.
I think the major problem with animation in America today is that it relies too much on CGI as a cost-effective means of production and making dated pop culture references to look "hip and with it".
This is quite apparent in 2004's Shark Tale. A film made with CGI and using puns, pop culture gags and celebrities to sell the film. Time has not been kind to it, the animation looks ugly by today’s standards and the story, characters and jokes are cliched and dated.
When The Lion King was in production back in 1993, it was considered to be a small film. Don Hahn, the film's producer said:
"The Lion King was considered a little movie because we were going to take some risks. The pitch for the story was a lion cub gets framed for murder by his uncle set to the music of Elton John. People said, 'What? Good luck with that.' But for some reason, the people who ended up on the movie were highly passionate about it and motivated." - Don Hahn
Now we all know this film today, thanks to the impressive animation and the timeless story. It would be nice for 2D animation to make a comeback in America since it ages better and can be more expressive and fluid.
Japan makes some great stuff, but animators are being paid well below minimum wage while working insane hours. Ufotable was caught evading billions of yen in tax, and Kyoto animation (known for having better work conditions than most studios) was hit by an arson attack.
Despite the "cost cutting", some amazing shows/movies still just don't make enough money back.
Animation is fucking expensive. We need every cost cutting measure we can find that *isn't* cutting wages. Cost cutting is the name of the game in animation.
I kinda agree
2d animation will eventually make a comeback in the US. The problem is that too many people are satisfied with the bare minimum.
Its a crime that horror directors (particularly in the indie scene) dont make stop motion films. The imperfect janky movements and gritty textures of low budget stop motion greatly pair up with horror elements.
UPDATE: EVERYONE WATCH "THE WOLF HOUSE". IT HAPPENED BOYS.STOP MOTION HORROR.
If you like horror and stopmotion, I suggest you check out Takena's claymation (ua-cam.com/users/takena) such as Chainsaw Maid, and The Sandman (1992) short film. Though marketed for kids, Laika's Coraline is an excellent stop motion film with a creepy edge.
It's also a crime that they don't hire the VFX people from Detective pikachu and Battle Angel Alita. Those are some of the scariest movies I've /ever/ seen - but for all the wrong reasons.
Yeees! Stop motion is great for horror and eery vibes. That's why I love coraline so much
It’s a shame that horror directors don’t touch on making animated films in general! Lol
@@Little1Cave Well, in the case of cartoons, it wouldn't work. I can't imagine a horror film blending well with a Pixar aesthetic. But something grittier, yes.
Hey! I'm an animator and I love your videos. I could not agree more that looking outside the major studios is INCREDIBLY important for seeing the true range of animated movies out there. I think because there is such a gap in high quality traditional animation in the major spaces, everyone in smaller studios is absolutely working their hardest to fill that gap. We just don't all have the money to make and market a feature length movie.
Most of my work so far has been in animated music videos (cough cough please watch Starlight Brigade), but the desire people have for 2D animation will bring through a new golden age. It's just up to all of us to carry it xx
Hope your UA-cam channel will be legendary in the future for animation.
I'm an animator too, and I couldn' t agree more w your comment! It is tough to fill this gap especially working in a country (Brazil) where the animation industry is not as developed as it is in North America or Europe. But it is possible ("Boy and the World" is a great example). And by the way, congratulations on working in that Starlight Brigade video, that thing is a masterpiece!
Noitibmar I agree that music videos are where most of the cool animation is happening these days. Have you seen the music videos for SIAMES!? A studio called Rudo Co in Argentina did them and their work is amazing. I’d love to see feature films with their style but the Hollywood money men only seem willing to finance 3DCG :(
I watched it, it's a cool video, glad there are people out there making stuff like this. Btw, the style reminds me of early Miyazaki, particularly Nausicaa, but with influences from more modern western animation too.
What do you think about pinscreen animation?
In my experience most people in the west think animation is just for kids. This misconception will probably get worse because the major animated films are even more childish than they’ve been.
Yeah mate. I think us animators should tell stories in a more serious and intimate way that also adults can relate with.... I think one great animation series that captures the beauty of friendship in a way teens or young adults can relate with is The big lez show, the show is in an imaginary world and tells stories with islands becoming giant monsters but it's basically an adult show teaching you the meaning of life in a playful humorous way. Lol lema stop preaching about The Big lez show but that's an example of a great 2D animated film that I think is basically for adults.
Yeah in my opinion animation be more appreciated than just by fans
Films sure, but animation is changing on tv, online, and on streaming sites
AndrewLuis CrespoDeMoura animation even advances on Japanese anime as well
I'm currently studying film and TV production at University, and one of the great things that really inspired me was on my first day of my composting animation (VFX) class, my teacher was very vocal about how animation is *"the purest form of cinema."*
I couldn't agree more. It's been said a thousand time before, but with animation, your only limit is your imagination.
That's a huge part of why it's so expensive to produce, though, and it's easier to see the effects of lazy work and/or imagination.
I’m trying to get into animation as well
So, I have worked in animation, currently doing my Masters degree in directing animation, and I am more positive about the current state of animation! Recently one of our alumni came back in to talk about what the industry is like, she's a producer at Cartoon Network, and in summary right now it is THE best time it has ever been to get into the industry. There are more pieces of work being produced but also more people are financing it seeing as how popular it has become, one of them being the long steady growth of anime in the west. I think the caveat here is though it's not necessarily film, but more television, apps and web content. Netflix starting their own animation division has made everyone else want to be a part of that pie too. I think the one thing that has made this the most interesting to look at is that animation for films costs sooooooo much more compared to live-action, kind of why you have to treat them like a blockbuster so you play it safe and target it at the safest audience, children. So the future is brighter I think, but probably not for film, even then film in cinemas is also declining too so they are both going away slowly hand in hand...
I agree that the up and coming talent is as promising as ever, particularly when you account for foreign animation schools
Interesting to know
Isn't the industry getting flooded with Tumblristas?
Animation is not just for kids, it can be intelligent for children, and fun for adults. I know that there will be a future for people to take animation seriously, it just takes time and a whole lot of support to make that happen.
I agree
Yeah. Also, children are also smarter than you think.
The thing that has pained and depressed me the most about Laika is the amount of lackluster screenplays they've chosen to adapt to stop-motion. There's no experience that saddens me more than sitting through a stunningly animated, beautifully imagined, arduously hand-crafted stop-motion film...and having the story be thoroughly uninteresting and cliche. While know some people liked it, personally I felt that way about Kubo and the Two Strings. Seeing the BTS footage of the animators spending years and years painstakingly crafting that movie frame-by-frame made it feel all the more depressing that to me, it just turned out to be a pretty mediocre story. In a lesser sense, I felt similarly about Isle of Dogs. I think if we're going to see a resurgence in something like stop motion, which is an artform that I adore, animation studios are going to need to step up their screenwriting game and be sure the movies they spend years making will offer more than just pretty visuals. They need to offer screenplays that genuinely connect.
Yeah, I do tend to agree with you there. With the exception of Coraline, I think their writing game tends to be pretty weak. Kubo, for as well directed as it is, doesn't even have a top-notch script. And Missing Link - for as great as it looked - had some terribly weak characters.
Do your own essay on Laika, Houston, and I like their movies
I completely agree with you on Kubo, the story was so predictable and the villain felt tacked on. I always say nothing can save a weak script, no matter how good the visuals looks
I agree. A friend really hyped up Kubo for me before I even considered watching it. When it came on Netflix I sat down and gave it my full attention. To my disappointment, I found it full of plot holes and difficult to invest in the characters. I surely hope Laika comes up with some better scripts because I don't want to see them close either.
Too many creative ventures nowadays skimp on the writing...
Great video. It should be noted how different the attitudes to animation are in the far east (particularly Japan). It's similar to how France views comic books (bande dissinees), in the notion that these are worthy artforms, and serious methods of expressive communication.
It's ridiculous, biased and fundamentally ignorant how some countries denigrate certain means of expression... Seen as kids' stuff, putting them at the bottom of the Arts hierarchy.
Seems silly, myopic and short-term money based.
Well, about French viewed comic books as a work of art? Talking about The Adventures Of Tintin. Sadly, American comic books (especially Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, etc.) were meant for profits instead of an art form.
Agreed
Very true!
I'm currently a Freelance animator working in the industry and I can't emphasys my frustration at times for wanting to create and work exciting and different animation to find myself stuck working on 'money jobs'. I feel it is a gamble to creating exciting new stuff but maybe the answer it to press on and make what you want and let the audience find you. You'll be surprised whos out there
I absolutely love Ghibli Fest! I took my Dad, who always thought animation was for children, to see 3-4 of the movies for the first time and he is now a huge fan of Studio Ghibli. He started collecting some of the movies on Blu-ray and has a small Totoro figure on his office desk.
Really the argument bemoaning the lack of technically and creatively diverse animated movies sounds just like the criticism of most of cinema: that mass appeal trumps creativity. It's the sad truth that the people who, (like myself) find the live action CG animal movies and rubber slapstick CG animal movies to be tedious and unappealing are in the minority. The vast majority of movie-goers just want spectacle or cheap laughs.
I love movies, and I know this is a film channel, (which I think is great btw, good job) but film animation meant for theaters will always be this way. Netflix and streaming services are really where animators should be looking to do their greatest work. Way more flexibility, way less risk. And I think that theatrical releases in general is a gimmick that we need to let die. Not the theaters themselves, just the industry that caters to releasing theatrically. (Keeping theaters smaller and running older movies, or TV miniseries, or start making serials again would be pretty amazing. But throwing millions at one shot movies is wasteful and rarely pays off unless it's designed from the ground up to be a blockbuster.)
The concept of big Hollywood movies is a dinosaur that we as a society have been keeping on life support because... well I'm not sure. Maybe because the century old mystique of going to the movies is too grand. But it really hurts to see truly talented animators and studios dashed on the teeth of profit margins.
Okay boomer.
Reminder that TV and the internet is also a huge part of the animation industry. There are always at least a couple super weird, cool, high quality anime series each year, Netflix is constantly just throwing everything at the wall and some of it really sticks, and there's always a neverending stream of independent and student short films. Look beyond the theatres.
Animation is important for the future. Animated stories aren't much like live action but they can tell a story with only visuals and make the impossible possible
Agreed
I think the issue nowadays is less a mislabelling of computer generations as live action and moreso a failure in communication.
At least from what I've been exposed to, when folks complain about the state of the animation industry right now... They are referring to how underrepresented traditional 2 animation is.
For most people I would argue, the term animation means cartoon.
Wow I didn’t expect your comment to be on this channel totally not mark
What we've got here is a failure to... communicate.
I work as a independent/freelance animator and the issue that comes up is money. Every person I have worked with that were non-animators have little to no clue the cost and time that is put into animation. Another issue is working with someone who doesn't understand animation is not as "grounded" as live action and don't want to take risks, then they're like "Why is this so boring?" Well, you wanted this, so I don't know, you tell me.
I’m in school for film right now and all the really great shorts that I’ve seen come out of our animation department have been 2D, and have been legitimately touching narratives. Artists and students are interested in that format but it’s up to the studios themselves to make it a lucrative and worthwhile medium to those future artists
In the US - or N. America as a whole - most of the best artists working in animation tend to work in TV animation...it's a more fertile ground for creativity.
Hi there, I’ve watched some of your stuff in high school. Whatever happened to that black sunrise movie you’ve been working on?
@@ivancorredera4241 I'm still working on it...just very slowly--I have a lot less time these days to work on my independent work unfortunately
@@ncross Good luck!
As much as some people complain about Calarts and what not, there really is more variety in TV animation in the US than in movies, both in term of visual styles and story telling. Even big names like BH6, MLP, Teen Titans, TMNT get more explorative with the medium than most of the 3D giants ever do, and it's been like that for nearly two decades now...
@@LutraLovegood It's funny how people keep blaming on the "Cal-Arts style" for everything, even though Cal-Arts is a school for animation and the creator of Steven Universe, which they think it's considered to be the "origins" of that style, is not even a Cal-Arts graduate.
Hi! I'm an animator in university currently nearing the end of my third and final year. We're currently in the "blocking" phase of animating our two short films at the moment.
My perspective is basically the same as yours - I just want more diversity and variety in animation. Everyone in my degree - students and staff - loves Spiderverse, not just for its incredible style, but also because it told a fantastic story better than 99% of live-action superhero films.
I think part of the issue with Laika's films is unfortunately in their marketing. I hardly heard a thing about Missing Link, only to see it not have a wide release around me in Australia. It was also "another bigfoot/yeti movie". Captain Underpants was another one that didn't play in my normal cinema of choice, and even just "normal" films don't get as wide a release as possible either, like when I couldn't find a screening of Shape of Water.
I think we all just want a variety of style in animation - mature stories, child-friendly stories, 3D, 2D, stop-motion, anything! Just not another Minions, and not another "live-action" remake of a beloved classic that basically says that the original shouldn't be taken seriously because it's a stylised 2D film.
Thanks for the good video!
Couldn't agree more, its wonderful to see a nice broad spectrum of world animation being looked at here, rather than just the Major American studios.
Working in the industry, you see exceptionally talented people who's hands are tied by 'safe' animation projects. Studios and companies want to have a safe hit that makes money, but it doesn't mean there's no room for creativity, especially in CG animation. I just want to say, working with CG I can really appreciate the work that goes into their features; it is extraordinary! So beautiful! It's amazing how much work goes into getting something right.
In my opinion the issues always fall down to story, and I don't think it's a new phenomenon, with every hit there will always be other works with story issues. Ralph Bakshi said animation is about story and style together and when they get in sync (Like Spiderverse) the impact changes the industry, because the shackles of the animation teams are free to explore the ideas they've always had.
People are super creative, but from what I've seen, they're bound to a long financial pipeline that is designed to mitigate the risk of losing money, because the studios are spending a lot of money to earn back those delicious dollar bills.
Nice to see you here! :) :D
Went to a screening for the animated films up to win the 2019 oscars. Mamoru Hosoda, the director of Mirai, said that he believes 2D animation is going to die. He said almost no one is learning the craft and 2D films are much less popular so the studios are closing down and people who used to be full time 2D animators are looking for different jobs or retiring. Because of that it’s getting harder and harder to find an animation team that can do 2D.
I don’t work in the animation industry, but I think the problem is that many major studios are the ones that believe animation will only garner to children, hence why we get movies like Despicable Me, Secret Life of Pets and Ugly Dolls. So now the consumers have fallen for the notion and believe that animation is only for children, and since hardly anyone is trying to prove that statement wrong, then the idea that animation is just for kids has yet to fully disprove itself in their eyes. There are some genuinely great, more mature, CG animated movies like How To Train Your Dragon and Into The Spiderverse, but there aren’t enough of them to inform an audience that animation doesn’t have to be just for kids.
Animation is just a medium, and with it, the the only limit is your imagination. Not enough people can appreciate that since even studios believe that it’s just an easy way to garner to a large audience and make money.
The Emoji Movie tried to pander to kids and that still failed
Well, animation is a medium that meant for everyone. If Illuminations Studio focused more on mature themes and serious topics, it would be a different studio than what it is now. At least for Illuminations, in my opinion, has life lessons despite the stories were predictable and the CGI animation was decent.
Agreed
Ya I agree I really want to see an animated film focus on mature and serious topic theme but it includes a little more realistic using actual guns or knife cuz it make more sense
@@carbootstudios2459 Your comment aged worse than yoghurt.
Another great example is Jonni Phillips' Wasteland! It's free to watch on youtube too!
Definitely thought that Spiderverse defined a new push into the animation industry and an art form. Not only did it introduce a new style and form of animation that beautifully integrated CGI and traditional animation and techniques to tell a story visually, but also opened new doors to animators and artists alike.
I think with this new generation, there's hope that kids as they grow up, will learn that it's okay to enjoy animation as an adult and still enjoy animation. Since we have adults who are now more confident and open about watching animation not as something for kids, but can be enjoyed by adults in a more mature context and art form. Now, animators, both new and old, have to fight and continue to make animation that speaks more than just something catered to children.
I find it so frustrating when people don't see animation as a way to express emotional and mature themes in such a unique and much more impactful way than a live action or a regular movie can.
I’m a freshman at the VFS Classical Animation course (just technically, classes start next week), and in my opinion, the greatest threat to animation at the moment really is the public perception of it. It’s truly tragic that so many fantastic films are ignored because they’re considered inherently inferior by the masses for being animated. But though the situation may seem dire, I don’t think animation is at a risk. I think that as long as there are animation-lovers who are displeased with the current state of things, there’ll be an increase in production, and the variety of these productions, their themes and styles... and that‘ll occasionally generate animated productions that will entice and interest previously close-minded viewers.
Might seem too optimistic, but I have to believe in something like this in order to keep going.
Also, you have some foreign films out there as well. The French animation scene is quite fun.
Check out Dofus Book 1, and Mutafukaz
The French are incredibly underrated! Brave and incredibly creative.
@Jumbo Jango In terms of recent animation meant to look like paintings, I prefer _Girl Without Hands_ over _Loving Vincent_ overall.
I need to check out more French animation. Persepolis is one of my favorite films, animated or otherwise.
Interesting
Another aspect of modern animation is how accessible it is now. As someone who started animating in super 8, there are now professional quality tools for 2 and 3d out there, some are costly, some are free and some fall in between.anyone interested can make something now. On their own. They might not have box office, but they get seen on you tube and other services, its its own world not really driven by mAking money but by getting your story and work out there. Not to mention all the instructional and short comedy shorts out there.
On the note of animated Paul Thomas Anderson- id kill for a version of Phantom Thread animated like a 50’s Disney movie like Cinderella- swirls and shadows and long lines and dresses 💕 I was talking about that with my sister the other day so when you said that I was reminded
I started my animation major just about when people were figuring out that traditional animation was dying. I didn't hear that from the outside, I heard that from my professors. I hadn't really thought about it till further into my degree but the films that inspired me to pursue 2d as my career weren't from America at all. they were Japanese films, French films. in fact, the last American animated anything that inspired me was lilo and stitch. I realized the fact that in the states, animation was not taken seriously, which was shocking to me because my passion for the medium only grew with age. I got upset when I examined the state of American animated films. pumping out the same 3d animated feature with uninteresting character design, the most unimaginative of plots and pop culture referenced that serve no purpose . (and i love 3d animation, dont get me wrong) not even Disney was animating anymore, it seemed. it was live action remake after live action remake or if they did animate, it was sequel after sequel. all the big companies everyone dreamed of working for were in California, making it a small yet highly competitive and uncertain field. but even if you fought hard enough to get to the top would you even be happy with the projects you'd spend years working on? As an animator thinking about the future in my field, that's a scary thought. Spiderverse was really a breath of fresh air, even as a 2d animator, I was excited for what it represented for animation as a whole, but honestly going forward, I don't know if there will be another film like it. I'd just hope that the industry would come to value passion as well as profit. I didn't mention tv animation, even though that's a 2d gold mine for the most part, not to mention I wanted to work for tv animation anyway. I have arguments for that line if work too, though, that would take too long to type. the American animated film market was just the most troubling issue.
Agreed
The biggest disappointment for me is when Kubo lost the Oscar for Best Animated Film to Zootopia. It made me realize that the winner will almost always be a Disney film, no matter how good the opposition is.
Even this year, they went with Disney/Pixar. I guess saying "Black Lives Matter" is more important than saying "Stop Asian Hate." Seriously though, that was the exact predicament that the Academy was in.
Thank you for making this video. I am retired from the Animation Industry and I totally agree with you. Animation is not taken seriously here in the US, actually I refer to Animation as the "bastard red-headed orphaned step child of the film industry". I started working in the industry back in the 70's on Saturday morning material, TV commercials and Animated specials. I worked on a couple of indy short films until I graduated into doing feature Animation in the mid to late 80's. Most of the film were total bombs mainly because the releasing studios did not seriously market them properly. Warner's was the biggest culprit at that time. The "suits" were always demanding changes to the material we were working on to fit a "G" rating and their marketing for very small children. I worked on "Rover Dangerfield" and they demanded several changes to elements in the story until the movie was sucked dry of all its adult humor. I worked on serval films after that until 1999 when jobs disappeared because of cost. (Disney's Lion King was partly to blame for this, but that's a rant for another time) Anyway, the first "Toy Story" movie was released and took off. It was a hit with critics and made a lot of money. Michael Eisner at Disney took notice and decided to shut down the traditional animation department in favor of digital. A number of studios followed suit and even some new digital studios opened up and the market as you know now, became flooded with digital animated movies. The studios felt that Digital was the way to go and people wanted to see these types of film over traditionally hand drawn Animation. So there we are...
Hell there is Kimba the White Lion anime that had Lion king have a bit of contersy
Hey there! I'm a Layout Artist working in CG Animated Features. I agree with alot of your points, and while I don't have much experience with the "independent" side of the industry (only big-budget cg) I do look towards them with hope, due to their typically smaller budgets and larger scope for creative uses of the medium. Telling stories that aren't dulled down for a younger audience but are instead good stories. We get them every once in a while from a major studio (Spider-Verse, etc.) and I always appreciate the technical artistry behind them because of the work put in, but it doesn't give me the same feeling as watching Anime has ever since I picked that up over a year ago.
For a main entertainment medium for a country (from my understanding), they are creating and telling so many unique and compelling stories through animation that western studios would never fund. From TV to Features, they're telling stories that can just be a 'slice of life', a simple romance or the complicated mix of fantasy with sci-fi. The range of animation content is astounding, although the working conditions are not as good.
Another point I feel, is the idea of animation simply being a 'genre' for kids/family movies that has risen over the years thanks to the likes of major studios. Animation, is not a genre. It's a medium that can be used to express any story, much like the paint a painter chooses or the clay a sculpter creates with.
I work in the independent animation industry.
But after reading Bleep Bleep's comment, I can say that it is my dream to build a network here in LA, and then move us all to Montana and make animated films from there.
Fantastic Planet is one of my favorite animated films, and that's filled with weird/scary imagery.
My20GUNS i just watched that film! it's was extremely weird but i kind of loved it
Need to see that
Pretty amazing movie
The problem, as I see it, has nothing to do with cgi vs traditional animation, but with the studio process itself. Several people, mostly animators and comedians, have told stories about what it's like to work on those Dreamworks-type animated films. First, they make the movie. Then, they bring in comedians to ad-lib witty lines over it. Then they reanimate and fully render the movie to incorporate their jokes. Patton Oswalt said in an interview that he once offhandedly said during one of these session, "you know, you guys would save a ton of money if you brought us in to do this before you started making the movie." And the studio guy he was talking to was floored, and wanted him to elaborate. The basic idea of pre-production has disappeared from the film-making process! With traditional animation (as you once said in a video), you can't really edit anything after it's done. With cgi, there are different levels of "done." The studio can give notes all throughout the process. This is expensive for the film, but creates job security for the producer. If the movie does well, they can say, "I'm responsible for that. I told them they had to include this element, and that's why we made money. Because of what I said." If the movie bombs, they can say, "I can only do so much, but I'm still just another cog in the big machine. Sure, I'm great, but it was the lousy directors, animators, and writers that fouled up our movie." In short, traditional animation means a producer must relinquish control to the artists, which is a suit's worst nightmare.
thank you so much for bringing up actually different points for once with this topic. honestly, most of the videos that i've seen lately that are just "myehhhh animation isn't what it used to be :((" are so tiring and groanworthy because they all repeat the exact same points viewed from the same narrow-minded rose-tinted glasses, often worn by people who don't get the animation process to begin with.
don't get me wrong, i really do wish there were more genres, mediums, and styles utilized in mainstream animation as well - that is most certainly a valid point! i just don't really like that people think that that this is a wholly new phenomenon. back in the '90s, every other major studio was trying to ape off the disney renaissance in some way for many of their films, much like how they ape off of pixar/dreamworks now, for better or for worse. i'm so glad that you actually took the time to talk about the ever-growing indie and foreign scenes - you're actually the first person i've ever seen talk about them, it honestly drives me up the wall that no other film youtubers ever mentioned it when talking about this topic.
i'd personally say that animation is around the same sort of shape it has been for the past two decades, it's just taken on a different form. sure there are more sequels and reboots and shit, but that's more of a hollywood symptom than something specific to animation. but now the indie scene is gonna grow more than ever with the increasing popularization of blender, and there are plenty more exciting developments in animation that'll keep you on my toes. i should know, i'm studying animation for crying out loud.
apologies for this essay of a comment, these thoughts have been brewing in my head for a while now lol
@Palette I couldn't agree with you more on this one.
First of all, great video as always. I'm an italian animator and comic book artist, so cut me some slack for any grammatical error I'll make, my italian autocorrect doesnt help. I partecipated as a kind of colorist for an italian/french docufilm called "Samouni Road", great stuff, almost 8 years in the making, i was called in with other colleagues in the last year of production in order to finish it in time for Cannes 2018. We succeded but, I have to say, only with a lot of State funds and such from every single italian region from where we worked. Actually every movie in Italy now sussists on state funds, the opening of our movie is minutes and minutes of logos of state agencies, art funds and region administrations. I thinks it's because we don't have strong producers who are able to fund a movie by themselves (I could start talking about our economic situation here but it would a loooong comment). The only studio who is strong enough to try and make a full length animation movie by itself is Rainbow, creator of the Winx franchise, that recently released in theaters "gladiators of Rome" a comedy movie for children with very little ambition. Yet some kind of new italian animation is on the rise I think, in the last "Gatta cenerentola" released and had great critical reviews, we have the Turin school of cinema animation course which could be compared to Paris Gobelins school in quality and a lot of indipendent artist as Simone Massi (my lead animator and art director for Samouni Road) who strive to bring forward the artistic research of this medium. I myself, with a couple of colleagues, am trying to develop a concept and find producers for a full length animated indie movie because so many of talented people who I attended school with is currently forced to work in factories or change line of work because of recession and the creation of this movie could potentially form a new italian animation studio. We are gonna see, let's cross fingers.
Hi !
Thank you so much for your videos, especially about animation.
I’m an animation student from Gobelins school, in Paris, and trust me here this is all we are about, trying to figure out how to make movies that are animated, and not animated movies. « Animation is not a genre, it’s a medium »
It’s funny that you make this video now because I never leave comments on yt but I’ve been wanting to let you know about a movie that we’ll be coming out in November in France and I hope in theaters in the US too, it’s called I lost My Body. It’s from a book and it’s not for kids, not for family, it’s cinema and it’s damn good !!! (It was screened at Annecy Festival this year so I had the opportunity to watch it)
I hope you’ll be able to see it because it’s exactly what we are all waiting for.
Here in France the production/distribution system is very different.
Young authors have a public financial support system that allow them to develop many nice projects. But often it’s not enough for feature films, and most importantly no one knows how to sell and distribute the movies when they are made.
I’m thinking about Rémy Chayé’s film Long Way north, French feature that was good imo but that was awfully distributed and made half the money it was expected to make.
I often think about how we can change the public’s expectations about animation and convince them to watch more, and it reminds me of French New Wave and how many different directors from the same movement managed to break Hollywood and classic cinema’s rules. I think this will take more than one movie.
Still I’m hopeful because the people who grew up with anime are grown up now and they are more open to animation I think.
Anyways there s a lot of things to say about all this and I share my thoughts pretty chaotically but thank you again for sharing your ideas on this misunderstood but infinitely interesting subject.
I’ve been watching all of your videos from the time you had 5k subs and they are my lights in the abyss of yt algorithm !!
That same year 'April and the Extraordinary world" was released, there was another movie from France which I'd highly recommend if you love different styles of animation. It's called Longway North (Toute En Haute du Monde, 2014) won several awards in festivals.
These films are good
Hi! I've been a children's television animator since 2015, and I love watching your videos. Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse has really made me excited about the future of animation. While it didn't do as financially-well as previous Spider-Man films, it won the Oscar for Best Animated Feature (a rare feat for a non-Disney/Pixar film), and became hugely popular as a fandom, generating a ton of fan art/animation/works by artists and creators. Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse has such a striking animation aesthetic for such a mainstream film (though I imagine it being a certainly helped with it getting its style greenlit), so I hope that other filmmakers will look at it, look at its success, and follow it, leading to more animated films with different art directions.
I mean we had infinity train from Cartoon Network
As a Motion Grapher trained in a tradicional animation college I love your animation history essays and that you appreciated Gkids, they curated and distributed the best current animation films. I also don’t care for the hole state of Disney remakes, I think Walt would be revolving if he saw it. Keep it up!
Animation major here, and I’ve actually been doing an experiment. I’ve been watching the most acclaimed feature length animated film from each year (starting at 1926) and I’d actually say the medium is getting better and better. Of course there will always be crap out there but I find that in the earlier years, animated films were usually fewer in numbers each year and typically stuck to the same story tropes. These days, animation is much less predictable, both narratively and visually with films like Loving Vincent, Anomalisa, Its Such A Beautiful Day, Kubo, Spiderverse, Boy and the World, Isle of Dogs and lord above am I excited for this year’s Klaus. And I don't care what anyone says, Gravity is an animated film.
The major studios tend to work off of whats marketable, while Pixar sort of leads the wave with their creativity and state of the art animation. However with the rise of independent animation, we’re seeing all sorts of unique and narratively challenging animated films spring up all over the place. Im pretty excited to see where animation goes in the coming years and look forward to hopefully being a part of it.
Why is Gravity an animated film?
@@francescomanzo3939 The only live action bits are the actor's faces and a few of the sets. Everything else is CG.
@@CunningCondor You mean the actors' bodies aren't? I didn't know that! The line between animation and live-action is getting thinner and thinner. Thank you for clarifying! :) :D
@@francescomanzo3939 Yeah there are some scenes with live action suits but a majority of them are CG.
@@CunningCondor I understand!! Thank you for clarifying!! :) ;)
I'm an animation student and also graduated in audiovisual comunication. The animation industry is always offering varied and intersting films and short films, it's just really hard to get major distribution and people asses on the seats.
This is funny to me, because people consume animation all the time, but since it's put alongside live action this audiences don't notice. Like 80% of Avengers movies is animation, we are watching more animation than ever.
I think we should back releases like Claus on Netflix, so independent animation has a better chance of reaching a wider audience beyond cinema. And most importantly, educate the public about animation and how often it's used in movies, because animation isn't a genre as Brad Bird once said.
Sorry for the long comment, love your content.
Apparently Klaus is getting a theatrical release in select theaters.
@@nyanpirethecat2257 that is so good to hear.
I’m a stop-motion animator at the time of writing this comment. I currently do Marvel Stop-Motion videos with toys/actions figures. I want to do more original stories later next year. But I had no Idea that Laika and other studios were barely breaking even if not flopping financially. It’s really disheartening to hear. I’ll definitely try and do my best to support smaller studios. I really don’t care that much for the stuff we get now in theaters.
Hi there, I'm a production manager in the french animation industry and we have the same issue in France towards animation than the US : it's mostly seen as a kid thing and through the Disney lens. We released a lot of good kids animated movies that are distributed in the US but hardly visible, like Ernest and Celestine, Aunt Hilda, Days of the Crows, or even movies you can't even see, like The Big Bad Fox and Other Tales..., My Life as a Courgette or Long Way North, all of them in 2D (one in stop motion). These movies aren't correctly distributed in France either, because they don't look like Disney, because they are made by smaller studios than Illumination, who stole the french animation market in theatres a few years ago. We can't battle against these kinds of giants. But we are mostly working, for TV and theatres production, on 2D shows and movies. I would LOVE to make the films previously listed well known all around the world, but against the american and japanese productions, it's very difficult. We even do adult animated movies, like Funan or The Swallows of Kabul, but french distributors don't know how to sell them to theatres and they mostly stay a couple of weeks on screen before being retired.
I'm so sorry to hear France has similar problems as well! At least they're able to proudce GREAT movies if they aren't largely seen!
Interesting
I'm so sorry to hear France has similar problems as well! At least they're still able to produce GREAT movies even if they aren't largely seen! :) :D
Francesco Manzo I mean it’s good to know about
Laika was invested in by Phil Knight (the founder of nike) and his son Travis was an animator there and is now president and ceo so they could loose money for a long time before they need to pull the plug. Phil Knight is worth 33 billion
I think that there's somewhat of a whole in the "AAA animation industry" after the big companies losing steam, that will sooner or later be filled by a new generation of great animation studios, we just have to wait.
Sony definetly has some newer creative animators
For as experimental as it was, and as a result it was time-consuming, Loving Vincent was a massive box office success, grossing over 40 million USD under a budget of 5.5 million. Chances are that the buzzwords such as "World's first painted movie" helped out on ticket sales, but other than that, the demand for mature animated movies is out there. It just needs to be injected onto the masses.
Watership Down is my favorite movie of all time, animated or otherwise. I wish more movies had that same level of heart put into them.
I am an animator currently working in the industry. I think that most animated features are being judged by some standards that they are not created with the intention to reach.
Angry Birds is purely a fun movie full of visual jokes. Isle of Dogs is a great movie telling a story in a very elegant and smart way. Into the Spiderverse is a very cool action, fresh and visually stunning animated movie.
This is a very personal opinion but I think each movie has its strengths and reaches to a certain degree the artistic purpose to what it was created for. Not to say that comedies can't be better in the animation format but I'm saying that it's a huge accomplishment from the beginning of production with great quality in all the movies mentioned and still making a lot of money on it.
Not all studios are aiming at Pixar deep stories. Sony is the one who explores the most styles if you think. Cloudy with chances of meatballs was inspired by UPA . HotelTransylvania was created by the master Gendy Tartakovsky and has it's own very distinguishable style. Into the SpiderVerse was another completely different approach to animation.
So many great aspects you can appreciate on animated movies from many different studios and styles that I find unfair to judge them all based only on one standard. I love Isle of Dogs, and I also love Boss Baby or Angry Birds for very different reasons.
There is a great market in animation and now with the amazing, Love Death+Robots proven to be a big success, I believe studios will finally start exploring more of the serious, normal or more adult stories, but a movie can be silly, can be deep, can have bad sound editing but an amazing story, can make you cry or giggle. As long as they are not all the same.
The industry has a lot to push and unfortunately, major corporations are a bit stiff when it comes to story decisions making them being all a bit too similar storywise, but the thousands of artists behind the scenes are all contributing with a lot of passion and skills to make a movie like Moana be completely enjoyable yet distinct from Kung Fu Panda, another comedy masterpiece!
Those are my two cents and I hope it makes sense. I love your channel and the work you've been doing!
I work as an animator in the commercial space not the film industry but we face similar problems with clients.
I work at studio goblin, a small British studio, we’ve been trying to hand drawn animation to balance out the overweight amount of simple
Corporate motion graphics video.
You’d be surprised how often clients love our stuff and want us to create for them, it’s easy to say “people don’t want this” but when you offer it directly to them, they often take it because they didn’t know they wanted it till you offered it.
Think the film industry is the same at the moment, it’s easy for people to say “well those kind of animated films won’t sell!” But until someone actually makes them and treats them with respect when distributing we won’t know for sure.
Do we make as much as other animation companies who do motion graphics? No
But do we feel a geat deal of pride in providing our hand drawn work? You bet we do!
Not quite what you were expecting i’m sure lol but as a fan of your work and a animator i felt compelled to give my two scents
Motion graphics?
Interesting
Thanks for this thoughtful analysis and commentary - we are encouraged by our fans all over the world and are committed to continuing to make animation that offers another perspective
Laika is funded by the Nike fortune. As long as there's a market for over-priced shoes, Laika will stay open.
People who say 2D animation is dead are about as obnoxious as people who say "real music" is dead based on the prevalence of shitty corporate pop.
As a freelance animator, I am dazzled by the possibilities of the medium. Right now the thinking is dominated by studiothink which is essentially based on bottom lines. In time, as the software improves, it will become the tool of individual visions, and then we will begin to see some of its true promise. Which is not to say that what studios are producing aren't dazzling in their own right.
Hi I'm an animator!
I understand in the context of this video you were focusing on theatrical releases, but I never understand how people can just ignore what's happening in television animation right now when they talk about 2D being dead.
Not a proffesional animator,but I love to animate/ draw in my free time. I think one of the biggest problems IMO is that people still see animation as a genre and not as the medium of art that it is. The majority of people think that animation is for kids and it isnt worth their time.
Animation is an artform and should be viewed as one and I hope one day we will reach the point where the majority thinks that way. Untill then... we should support animated movies wher we can
Animator here, you already articulated many of the grievances associated with the state of animation today. so I’ll just throw this in - mature & intelligent animated cinema is alive and well in the independent animation scene, which, in the US, is currently a bit of an underground grassroots movement. Most of the cutting edge stuff associated w the medium are slowly starting to see the limelight with the recent resurgence of animation film festivals popping up in the US. If you haven’t checked it out already, GLAS (one of said emerging festivals) is releasing a feature-length anthology of select animated shorts called “ANIMATION NEXT” for theatrical distribution, and is also doing a kickstarter campaign for their 2020 festival, which you can support here: www.kickstarter.com/projects/glasanimation/glas-animation-festival-2020?ref=project_link
The animation you crave is alive and well, it’s only recently that it’s nearly bubbling to the surface. But the fresh talent & perspective is there.
Missing Link is my favourite film of 2019 and to see it failing legit breaks my heart.
I even recommend Zootopia/Zootropolis to many people and they either think about it but forget about it or do not like how it looks by the trailers.
Trailers need to be improved and marketed more properly.
Agreed
Animation graduate here. I think one of the problems is the difficulty for animation to be financially viable. It takes a long time and you need resources to really make something great.
There are LOTS of amazingly talented people with fresh visions and ideas, but its difficult for them to make stuff.
In this field if you want money you usually end up pitching a project to the few big established studios that could want it and end up with the producers overseeing your project, or go the independent route building a team and painfully and slowly grow until the point of being able to make your own projects with no restrictions.
Of course there are exceptions and you can get investors, maybe a kickstarter or make a career for yourself until you can create your own projects but each path is difficult on its own.
You aren’t the only one who wants to or try to break the stigma. The freedom to break convention while maintaining quality is something I want to strive for.
Currently a student in college but oh man what I’d give to be in a world where the playing field is leveled.
Yeah I want to break that stigma
6 of my top 10 favourite films are animated - animation can do things far more elegantly and artistically than many live-action films because of how deliberate and intentional each individual frame of the overall image is. It's this attention to detail, particularly with traditional hand-drawn or hand-animated animation, that gives it its great depth of expression.
That being said, there is plenty of tawdry, shallow animation which sadly makes up the majority of modern CGI animated fare in America and cheaply produced anime series in Japan, but when the true artists are working their magic, animation is a wonder to behold. Perhaps one day animation will be widely considered 'a medium' not just simply 'a genre of film' as it often is today.
isolation. last thing I animated was a year ago, no $, notebook paper, pencils, 7 day trial of Premiere: 12 hour days for over two weeks straight, alone in a room hunched over for a two minute accomplishment viewed by family and friends most of whom mayve been better served by my direct attention than my absence (broken by email which read like an advertisement for my hopes and dreams --- inadequately supported by a link to an average looking cartoon of a dog that runs like it swims) limitation of scope/scale due to lacking resources requires the expansion of isolation/lonliness to complete projects of greater visual quality --- but even with this advantage there is no guarantee such projects will be received with more than negligible response --- there is no counting on quality/talent to reach an audience --- but say there is and animating for more hours means solidification of this personal means of expression as lifeblood --- there is only one definitive outcome of the isolation required to succeed and expand as a solo animator: isolation.
When I set my mind to something I do until it breaks me (would say 'makes or breaks' but I've never dipped my toe into any kind of artistic success), I love to animate - but the idea of being broken and alone because of the loneliness required to complete some thing in animation - is a main reason I personally avoid the lightbox
I’m studying animation and I agree with you. What people don’t get, along with animation telling a story visually, is that it exaggerates reality, not duplicates it, as mentioned by one of the great animators in history. It’s not that I’m against CGI, it’s just that these recent films are more along the lines of tech demonstrations. Also, major studios spend more of their budgets marketing and merchandising a film than actually making it. We should all take Walt Disney’s quote about movies and money to heart.
_Isle of Dogs_ and _The Night Is Short, Walk on Girl_ are the two best animated films of 2018 and two of the best animated films of the 2010s.
I can’t say the night is short ,walk on girl as the best .Good animation but the story I mixed opinions
@@watchforever1724 The story's a wonderful whirlwind, very much like the best nights out drinking with friends.
BlueFox94 most people might disagree with you there .I didn’t find it too interesting
BlueFox94 still never understood
@@watchforever1724 Quel dommage. :/
Animation to me is like home cooking. Grandma's method might be the more difficult, but damn it tastes good. I especially think that certain animation studio's should feel obligated to uphold a certain standard in a diverse range of animation methods. Studios like Disney shouldn't abandon their older methods, and conform to the newest cheap standard. They should be able to juggle a variety of mediums. Including ones that cost WAY to much. They are Disney after all.
Thank you! I hate how many are saying animation has gone downhill because all they focus on is the us made stuff when companies like GKIDS are helping give animation it’s variety and life. The entire animation fandom kind of sucks because of ignorance and being unaware of what really is out there.
People just need to go see them. If they are nearby, then go see them. They could use all of the support they can get.
I also think the audience is to blame for crying about originality, but then let Missing Link bomb
I’m a much more aware animation enthusiast so I’m way more positive about the situation.
So I don't know if you know this, but Laika is run by Phil Knight's Son Travis. Phil Knight, the owner of NIKE, is also one of the Members of their Board of Executives. I don't have proof of this, but it is a general understand for us in the Portland Animation community that the only reason Laika is still around is that connection to NIKE.
I'm currently studying animation. Where I live we only have one very small animation studio and they don't do anything special with the medium, despite having a chance to explore new territory with it. Being completely unknown I believe we have a chance to experiment and explore new things with the medium. We have nothing to lose.
Me too
Animation has always been regarded by Hollywood as something not to be taken too seriously (cue the almost never ending stream of cutesy silly talking animal cgi rubbish out there, aimed mostly at kids - which is not to say there isn’t good stuff in there. But most of it is not aimed at intelligent storytelling etc). I think whatever is cost-effective, quick to make, and doesn’t cause a fuss is what Hollywood likes...which is mostly CG. Not the mediums fault either, just lousy and lazy choices made with it because it happens to be a quicker one than stop-motion or 2D. But those two mediums are most certainly not dead. And whilst never huge money spinners anymore, that does not mean they are redundant. SpiderVerse was CG, but also had terrific storytelling etc. As did the earlier Pixar stuff (even if the technology has dated - but the storytelling hasn’t). I think the internet is a fantastic place to keep animation in all forms alive and appreciated, even if cinema (well, mainly Hollywood) doesn’t appreciate it so much...though of course it is appreciated more outside Hollywood. I love Ghibi’s output, as well as Laika’s, and (from my own country) Cartoon Saloon’s...and of course all the independent stuff (including my own) out there. Animation will never die out as an art form - whatever the format - even if never being huge at the box office. It’s an art form first, not a genre that falls in or out of fashion.
Hooray for Cartoon Saloon! Any other GREAT Irish animation companies that it's worth checking out?
Francesco Manzo Brown Bag Films 🙂
Thanks
@@EmlynBoyle Thank you SO MUCH for replying! I'll definitely check them out when I can! :) :D
As an animator, I completely agree with this. Bringing 2D hand-drawn animation is a life mission of mine.
Agreed
just thank you, there are a lot of people (and youtubers) who just watch big american animation studios and thing with that have the entire picture of the industry
I can't believe this was the way I received the news of Willams passing :( ... I've been dreading this inevitable moment for the past few years. So weird to think of the fateful gifset from 2013 of The Thief and the Cobbler that made me immediately fall in love with his art. Always had some farfetched dream to shake his hand and thank him for his work. I hope all of us who wanna work in animation can attempt to push Williams' vision forward and push the medium into places no one's taken it before--both for him and all the other brilliant animators who shaped the art form. Rest in peace you absolute legend. August 16, 2019... the day Animation died!
R.I.P. Richard Williams! Teach the Angels how to draw and animate! :( :( :( :( :(
Even Stan Lee a comic book died
I'm also seeing studios like Cartoon Saloon and SPA Studios make a dent into the animation sphere. I would love to see, not only 2D animation reemerge, but other avenues the medium can explore. Have great directors take a crack at animation, and promote them as high art.
You should check out everything related to french animation, specially sylvian chomet films. Also what ever is in the feature film selection in the Annecy animation festival each year.
I'm an animation student, and I agree its super sad to see that animation in the U.S. cant achieve its full potential; there's a negative stigma associated with it. I'm going to make movies one day, hopefully great ones, and i refuse to tell a story that's restricted to a certain audience. There's a video somewhere, where Ralph Bakshi commented on art students being sad they couldn't work for Disney, Pixar, or other major studios. He essentially said stop, go and make your own films; get a bunch of friends together in your garage, starve for a year, and make a film. Its likely my movies will flop or ill go broke, but ill have told the story i wanted to tell. Do it for the sake of sharing your art, not making money. ( Sorry for grammar and punctuation, I'm an art student)
Gkids is still a newer distribution compony for animation in other countries, at least in comparison to other distribution companies like Funimation and Aniplex (which mostly specialize in anime, which is literally just traditional animation from japan). Funimation mostly focuses on TV anime, but when they step into theatrical releases, I think I heard they've done pretty well. I know the American limited release of the My Hero Acadamia: Two Heroes Movie beat out a lot of other movies that came out that weekend. To be fair though the My Hero movie did have the added benefit of being attached to an extremely popular TV Anime. point is, just give Gkids some time and they probably will be doing pretty well at the Box Office.
Happy that my hero academia is becoming more popular
I work full-time as a 3d animator for a tv series (and part-time on my own in youtube) and there's a lot of what you said in this video that resonated with what I am seeing in my studio and with my friends from other studios.
I think, as a US film category, yeah, animation is not taken seriously. It's seen as a kids' genre, or the really good ones that are too indie and won't be as popular enough. It's alive and well in the European market though, the studio I work in make tv series and films for that side.
But as a medium, animation is booming here in the US, it's just not as seen as animation. Every blockbuster hit for a decade now has VFX in it, and practically every single vfx entity in films has to be animated by talented animators. Every creature, every facial acting, every westeros dragons, the computer and mocap actors can only really do so much, and artists still have to get in there and mess around with it. Creature animation is actually a high-selling skill within the industry. You cannot mocap that, and the level of sensitivity an artist needs to get in order to sell a realistic dragon next to a live-action actress is a masterclass in animation.
What's interesting too is the diversity of animation platforms. Netflix just announced that they've already built an animation production house of their own, and disney is pushing for more series in their own streaming service. That's a lot of places for any kind of animator to get involved in.
But yeah, it would be cool for a big-time director to get their hands in animation. I could only imagine what a Quentin Tarantino fully animated film would be like. =)
I'm trying to be in the industry. I've been working on my own animated movie for a while, and what I've found, is there is so much animation can do and so many places it can go, that it is seems ridiculous to put in the "just for kids" box
As a fan of animation and one who creates animation/cartoons for a living, I have been noticing an audience shift to more I guess you would say experimental animation. The overly polished look of the major animation studios is pushing audiences away cause they have seen that before. I haven't seen as much excitement towards those films in recent years. People will go see them but I think the audiences are craving more. I think the success of Spiderverse sort of proved that you can have a creative non polished looking, strong storytelling film and people will go see it. However your correct that people need to go support these studios that are making these films. I think in the next couple of years you will start to see more and more smart intelligent and even experimental animated films be on the rise. Though you will probably will see these films on the internet first before seeing them in the box office.
Great
I completely agree with you. I hate how some people disregard all animation just because of some old and misrepresenting prejudices. Lately some guy just admittet, he doesn't even see animated movies as "complete" and "real" movies. And later he stated, that this type of movies "shout for a real adaptation" a.k.a live action remake.
Things like that really make me (m/s)ad.
Agreed
Thank God this isn’t another person saying “ We don’t have original films anymore!”
Sadly we live in that generation
Thank you so much for making this. It's so good to see this issue be talked about. It's good to know there is a community of people who feel the same.
For anyone who craves animation that is taken more seriously than just being a kids movie, I highly recommend looking into Alberto Mielgo‘s work.
It may look familiar to some of you, and that’s because he was a creative lead on the look of into the spider-verse. He’s currently working on short films as well as directed an episode of love death and robots (The Witness) and was it was just announced that he’s directing a full length feature soon. I think that once more of his work gets out there, he could really make a difference on the current animation landscape.
I'm so glad you did a video on this! Everytime someone was excited for the new Lion King or Jungle Book I told everything I'd learned from your videos about the original point of animation-- to do what we can't do in the real world. Which is why Into Spiderverse was amazing
This is probably wishful thinking but I believe we will see a rise in mature animated films in the future. A lot of young adults and children have been/or are watching more mature animation. There watching animi, internet animations, and adult animated tv shows like Rick and Monty.
Because of this I believe (or at least hope) people will be more open to the idea of animated movies made for mature audiences.
Im a senior level animation student and i am working toward working in frame by frame animation professionally, but there is a constant pressure to focus more on 3D because everyone says that there are no jobs in 2D anymore. There is this collective anxiety among my classmates and professors that if you don't do 3D then you won't get a job and you will have waisted your degree.
Animator here! The Laika situation is pretty interesting. It has the benefit of being owned by Phil Knight (who own Nike) and is (last time I looked) partially run by his son, Travis Knight, who happens to be a knock out director and animator. (Look up the story about how this all came about. It's pretty interesting!) Based on that financial backing, Laika might be able to weather some more flops. Their last film, The Missing Link, was (according to my sources who worked there) their attempt to "sell out" by making a more... "accessible" film. One similar to the "loud noise" examples you cited in your video. They didn't really hit the mark there, clearly, and anyone who watched it would know its storytelling is a far cry from what they were able to accomplish with Kubo.
Anyway, that aside Laika does have a commercial division, which certainly helps with paying the bills. I've loved Coraline through Kubo and I'd hate to see Laika close down. I hope that Knight bank account keeps them around for a long time and they retread back to the path they were on with Kubo.
I'm working on my first feature film, a horror movie that combines live action with animation.
My previous animation works are mostly, for lack of a better name, "art videos", by that I mean they are made for and usually displayed at art exhibitions and usually don't fall in the category of linear storylines you need to watch from beginning to end. They are more like explorations of atmospheres, moods and techniques.
They mostly get a good reception from the public. Normally I see animation used for that purpose made in the art academy has a more abstract, non-figurative form. Though, I see it getting more popular in forms like animated classical paintings that take animation as a "serious" art form.
Outside the world of exhibitions, galleries and online niches, there seems to be hope for animated feature films here. A town called panic, co-productions with other countries like Song of the sea and Secret of the Kells, ...
Though it's well-known for filmmakers here, you're better off working abroad than hoping for any assistance here. Johan Vandewoestijne AKA James Desert said about film financing in Belgium: "It's a lottery, you have more chance to not get anything than to get anything".
To make it even less appealing, Belgian (co-created) movies barely get any local promotion. Which I find strange because one would assume that movies would be promoted a lot more in the country(s) of their makers.
I notice myself now with my movie and co-creator Nancy Van Beersel who has a lot more experience with animation and film festivals. If you're not making a documentary or "standard" live action drama, you'll have to dig deep in your own pockets to get your (animated)movie financed.
We didn't get much local interest so far, but some of our previous creations and script of our current film got us awards, selections and support from film festivals abroad.
One thing that gives me hope for Laika is that Pinocchio, Fantasia and Bambi were considered the biggest flops ever back in the 40s, and look at them now.
True
I'm an animator based in Montreal. Thank you so much for your thoughts. I believe in the power of traditonal animation and love the techniques behind it. There are many independant directors who are working hard to bring out their vision. Check out the projects from National Film Board of Canada. The company has some works to do to respect its directors, but it's still a place where many passionate artists gather ( I also started my career from there). I truly believe it will get better. More and more people start to appreciate the sincerity in frames and young artists are eager to work hard for their passion. Thank you for loving animations.
Keep fighting and keep up the good work!! :) :D
Cool
As a CG artist and animation professor, I entirely agree with you, with the small note that purely the art of motion is well reflected in even major studio releases. Good ANIMATION (the art of motion) is alive and well everywhere, but creative application of animation is less commonplace. Overall really nice to see the data, and I too hope you're wrong about Laika :)
One other note, in some cases indie animation feeds off of the technological advances of mainstream CG. As a kinda messy example, the artistic style of Spiderverse could not exist without the advances in rendering and compositing that result from a saturation of CG and large budget movies. It entirely benefits off of the technology and artistic skills that are created by things like Mortal Engines
5:38 I didn't know most of these titles, but the ones I did know are some of my favorite animation films too. You mentioned something about a Gkids streaming service - I wonder if it's available outside the US? A Netflix just for animation would be a godsend - although Netflix itself has been expanding its selection with some quality films. The one I watched recently I really loved was I Lost My Body.
Well, I appreciate a lot your video since it is completely honest about animation status today. Number are useful to see and somehow not that bad, as you commented. I am an animator and storyteller and I am trying to find a way to avoid some products that I do not admire but it is hard, the industry kind of push you towards those ones you do not want to be really part of. Anyway, I hope I can find my own way to contribute to that part of the history of animation persons like Richard Williams and so many others wrote and are nowadays trying to push. I have the feeling that if we are there... then there is hope :)
Really enjoying these vlog-style videos. Your video essays are also great, but this is the kind of stuff I really dig. Keep up the excellent work!
THANK YOU!!!!! I see every animated feature released by Disney and/or Pixar,but the one thing about going to see them that I absolutely loathe is having to sit through trailers for all the CG-animated crap coming out within the year; I swear to God,it seems like even Dreamworks has given up and has become content to just produce the sort of C-list-celebrity-voiced,pop-music-soundtracked,bad-slapstick GARBAGE aimed at 5-year-olds that the makers clearly don't give a shit if it makes a profit beyond its opening weekend!!!
It would be a shame if Laika went under....other than an occasional feature from Wes Anderson and the odd Aardman film that reaches our shores,you don't see a lot of stop-motion features these days.
As far as CGI is concerned,despite the fact that it seems to have completely eclipsed traditional style in Hollywood,I still have no problem with it...but I wish they start getting a little more creative visually. The only CG-animation feature made in the last twenty years that didn't look like just another Disney/Pixar wanna-be was *Rango* !
animation is dead....? Have they seen "Spiderman, into the Spiderverse" ? .. how about "The Bread Winner"? I feel like there's hope for animation. 9:40 you, Brad Bird and the rest of us in the animation field. And money will always talk. Hunt out those animated films, see them in theaters... and on streaming platforms. Netflix is coming out strong, but until they share their numbers.... the cinema ratings will hold the most control.
Hell infinity train came out