Oily, reddish fuel. Looks like off-road or farm diesel. Usually when I see old gas, it looks dark yellow and has distinct smell most of us know and love lol. Nice work Ivan! Stay gold.
Reddish color could be ATF oil too, but it would be a bit weird for it to enter the gasoline system. However some vehicles do have really strange systems for regulating pressure of the fuel system or controlling the gearbox. I have however heard about a car where the engine did run badly, smoked a lot and the oil level in the engine did raise - it was a vacuum control valve on the automatic gearbox that was broken and leaked ATF oil into the manifold. But the fuel wasn't impacted in that case.
Fuel being wonky is sometimes the last thing you think of because we just assume it’s “right”. Ivan has taught me when running into a “dead end” on a diagnosis, always check your “assumed goods” because you never know what you might find.
Yep, I returned my prior car to run on e85 and thought of how much of a loop it would throw a tech if I just sold it and they put gasoline in it. It would be super running rich for no reason. They'd get it if they threw a new computer at it, but then the fuel injectors would be wrong! Lots of variables sometimes, which is why having a solid understanding of the systems helps. I will agree that I wasn't thinking fuel on this one... I suspected severe over fueling from the maf.
Wow I can see why people would drive 100s and 100s of miles to have you fix there car ,i have took my sar to shops for same problem three winters and it didnt get fix. I figured it out myself. It had a miss till it got warm take it to shop they said # 3 coil 1300$ to replace fixed it 8n warm shop they said they had fixed, so nent cold morning same problem . I took heating pad put ❤ontop of pcm car started that sold morning tan fine so took and had pcm replaced, nomore problems. I love watching the video's of yours. Keep then coming. I wish all mechanics had your passion to fix cars❤❤
Dear God Ivan...you put my teeth on edge racing an unloaded engine & allowing it to run at 4or 5000 RPM with no load. . Your diagnoses are always logically thought out & you share a lot with your viewers. Stress analysis of crankshafts being repeatedly "torqued" by jazzing the throttle show ugly alterations in the molecular structures of the metal. Admittedly, small engines, & especially 4 cylinder in line engines are least likely to be adversely affected by such actions. Great diagnosis my friend.
There was so much smoke coming out the Nissan I could smell it through the TV lol! It is a shame that so many parts were thrown at it for it being an incorrect fuel issue. Though admittedly, I guess when all you have is a rough runner, with extreme measures just to get it running and no other clues, information, the last thing you would consider is incorrect fuel type, especially if you were not the first workshop to look at it. Good pick up gents.
I had a situation like this a couple of years ago. 2 vehicles in fact, had a tank full of Kerosene. The smell and smoke coming from the exhaust gave it away. And apparently, neither customer had any idea how that could have happened. Smh. Anyway, I enjoyed watching your process of elimination. I was very surprised that the injectors were still ok after all that. Nice work Ivan.
I went through a similar issue after replacing valve cover gaskets on a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. Originally ran fine, the started misfiring. Second guessed myself multiple times…plugs, coils, injector seals, as fuel trims also high. Turns out that one of the coolant lines to the throttle body has been switched with the vacuum line to the EVAP system, causing coolant to be sucked back into the fuel tank through the charcoal canister system. Even after draining almost all of the fuel, it took two fuel changes to get the car to nit randomly misfire. With modern fuels, the gasoline will emulsify the water / coolant and still allow the engine to run, but it will not run well.
Mystery red substance? Looks like she added heating oil to the tank. I have seen a gas station with regular looking pumps dispensing the stuff - but only REALLY far out in the country.
Great video Ivan! Contaminated gas is really hard to diagnose since we don't have a PID for it. I've seen the data does not reflect the actual symptom because the ecu's does not know what to do! The tool I have to do injector cleaning from BG help me to isolate this condition! This was a good one Ivan! thank you for sharing!
I had a similar situation, but luckily was given more clues. My neighbor (late 70's or early 80's) asked me to look at her Corolla that was bucking and misfiring. Somehow, she told me that she was stockpiling fuel, because the grocery store was giving out fuel points with grocery purchases, and the discount was good for 20 gallons. Since her car didn't hold 20 gallons, she'd fill it and put the rest of the 20 in plastic fuel containers. Get this: she took me over and showed me several gas containers sitting on the ground under tarps in her back yard! Since at the time I didn't even have a decent scan tool and she asked about taking it back to the dealer, and I told her to do that. I think they replaced an injector, among other things. Glad I didn't tear into it - and truly, I was not capable. However, I did come thru on the lawn mower when she ran the gas in it. Drained the fuel bowl and mostly water came out! I see the kerosene or diesel you dealt with as an order of magnitude more difficult than what I dealt with! That was a tough one!
When you described the low miles and age, then showed the symptoms, bad or old gas was my first thought. I had to look after an even lower miles car that wasn't being driven except when I was there every few weeks. Literally only put max $10 each time, drove it 60-70 miles. Just to keep it healthy.
I had a 2012 Quest that did the same thing. Had to replace the MAF sensor and the air intake hose. The shop that changed my oil caused a small tear. This was right after the transmission was changed at the dealer. CVT never again. Great job Ivan.
After you made a connection to the MAF output signal, what about bleeding off some of the signal to ground through a resistor to reduce the amount of injected fuel and see if the engine runs? Does the output signal from the MAF, when measured by 'scope or multimeter read the same as what ECU says it is? It may also be interesting to measure the MAF signal without it being connected to the ECU as this could help identify an electrical or electronic fault in the MAF circuit. Regarding the gas, I once ended up with contaminated fuel that resulted in my carb jet clogged with a white, almost gelatinous substance. If there is an absence of odor then maybe it's very old gas that may also be contaminated. Such a situation might occur if someone was very low on gas and someone else offered to help them out with a fuel can they had in the garage which had, unfortunately, been there for years and should have been properly disposed of years ago. The gas can may also have contained another fluid and then filled or topped up with gas and then put in the vehicle.
Had a very similar problem on a race car. A local gas station swapped their 109 octane to diesel. My brother might of got one lap in before it started sputtering and smoking.
I got my daughter a 2008 Sentra like this with the 2.0 and last owner destroyed the motor (never checked the oil until it blew up at 150k. I got a $600 JDM engine on ebay and put it in and its been rinning strong with 175k...even with the original CVT... I thought for sure the CDT would go out...knock on wood... It's still taking along for her in college. That 2.0 is a beast. As long as you keep up with the maintenance.
The engine came into the shop with 33k miles and left with 133k.🤣 Nothing like a good cold start oil diluted revving session to really break those piston rings in!
Yep, I bought a used 73 CB750 Honda with only 800 miles on it in Jan of 73. It ran great. After buying it I stopped at a country store and filled it with gas. By the time I got home it was running ragged. I changed the spark plugs and it was slightly better. After a while it needed gas again and after filling it again, it ran great again. I thought I had bought a pos but nope it was the old country store's fault.
You should have been able to smell contaminated gas in the exhaust smoke, your sense of smell is a finely calibrated tool. pumping fuel into a glass jar and looking at it helps too. Older guys like me would have gone there earlier, because bad fuel happened more often when we started messing with cars. looks like red diesel.
25 years ago I remember "bad fuel" being one of the 1st things you checked with an issue like this. For a long time now it is either a lost art with newer techs or it is in reality so hard to put diesel or k2 in a gasoline filler that you hardly see it. TBH Im not sure it would have ever crossed my mind either lol
My first thought was diesel fuel but mass air flow sensor seemed to be reporting an abnormally high air flow which would be a reason that the computer would give it too much fuel. Maybe the lady should buy gas at a full service island but the diesel nozzle shouldn't fit in a gas tank filler. Perhaps somebody else used her car, like a grandchild and used a fuel container that someone had put diesel fuel or kerosene into. If the fuel pump was changed could the shop that changed it have drained the gasoline and gotten it mixed up with diesel fuel?
Nasty problem! Great diagnostic! Just a slip-up at the gas station and you pick the wrong hose - I don't know about the US now (last time I've driven there was some 30 years ago), but in Europe you tend to have up to 4 hoses side by side, part gasoline and part diesel. However, you normally have an audible reminder of the fuel chosen, before you start to fill. This reminded me of an old episode of Top Gear, where they put gasoline in a diesel car and diesel in a gasoline car, to watch the results.
@@petrnemecek4379 You are right, in principle, but let me quote Wikipedia, for lack of an alternative source: "The nozzle on diesel pumps is supposed to be larger so that it cannot fit into the filler pipe on a vehicle tank designed for gasoline. However, the larger diameter diesel nozzles are not an actual requirement, and many diesel pumps have been fitted with standard gasoline nozzles."
Depends on the stations but most have 3 gas octanes, an "e-15" or "e-85" or both and a diesel. Wal-mart for example has 4 options per pump here. But they are color coded. I wonder if it was e-85. Usually black or red for gas, blue for ethanol and green for diesel. That pink color does remind me of kerosene. Awful stuff but can't see how you'd do that by mistake. If you are red/green color blind that doesn't help much... hm.
Around here some gas stations sell kerosene out of a fuelpump. Usually separated from the rest, but like they said, little old lady driver mite have gotten confused and added kerosene to her rig
I called diesel fuel right before you said it. As someone else said, the reddish tinge looks like off-road diesel. Years ago I went to a new Texaco station and topped off the tank on my 351 Ranchero. Got down the road a ways and it started running terrible. Called the station up and sure enough, the tanker filled the underground tank for the premium gas pump with diesel. They paid to drain my tank but it began a downhill slide for that engine.
I heard in the last couple of years of a gas station where the tanker truck had filled the underground tanks for gasoline with diesel. Maybe a similar case here if not just operator error?
I learned first things you check on a problematic engine: Air, fuel and fire in the hole (spark)! I already got a diesel van with gasoline lol. At Brazil is very normal to have adulterated fuel. This is an "old system engine", newer ones have the expected torque calculated. So, if you you have less power than expected, the light will glow! Really nice work!!!!!
A quick test for diesel mixed with gas, pour on clean steel work bench. Pure gas will evaporate and leave no residue. Diesel will leave an oily residue, because oil does not evaporate. Been there many times.
This sounds similar to what I did to my 1988 Toyota 4x4 I accidentally filled it with diesel and even after draining it and changing the filter still had these symptoms for awhile.
I wonder if the fuel delivery guy accidentally put diesel in the underground gas tank. I hauled fuel for quite a while, and it's not uncommon for stations to order small amounts of diesel compared to their gas orders, since they normally sell less. So maybe the station ordered 500ish gallons of diesel, and that mistakenly got dropped into a 5,000 gallon gas tank. Essentially making a 10% gas/diesel mix that is enough to run a gas engine off of, but it's not going to like it. That would also explain why it was highly flammable but still left an oily stain.
We’ve seen it several times over the years. Last time was 16 year old first trip to self serve. She thought she was buying cleaner fuel because handle was “Green”.
My teacher in school when i went for automotive told me that the inlets for when the tankers drop off fuel to the gas station are the same fitting sizes so they could have put diesel in the gas tank at the station or vice versa. He used to own a local mom and pop gas station here.
Great diag, Thanks! I had this on a Corolla a while back and the way I got to it was with process of elimination. I wish I would have a definitive test to do on fuel besides the ethanol content.
Wow, I never would have thought bad fuel. I was leaning towards something with the fuel system. I was thinking more on the line of clogged fuel injectors. This was a great video, I learned a lot!
One thing everyone should remember is that cranking an engine for a long time with injection working but no spark / combustion, pumps out a lot of gasoline vapour from the exhaust. This vapour is heavier than air and spread on the floor. In a closed spacee, if there is an ignition source, like a wood stove, compressor etc, nasty things can happen. Yet it is quite common to see YT videos where the door is not opened or exhaust hose attached when cranking the engine for minutes. People do not smell the vaporised gas, as their noses are far above from the floor. You had the doors open, well done.
G'day, Ivan! Well suggesting, there's your problem lady... "E85!!" As you folks may have noticed already. Ethanol is flammable!! Meaning: The customer went to the gas station, thinking she would save money, and bought some E85 fuel. (contains 85% ethanol) Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) is a liquid made from “biomass,” containing various plant materials like corn grain. It is renewable and domestically produced for transportation fuel. 94% of the ethanol produced in the US is derived from corn grain starch. On the downside, E85 burns faster and produces lesser energy than gasoline. Because denatured ethanol contains around 30% less energy per gallon than regular gas. Suggestion... That is why the 'Nissan Sentra' was running poorly!! Lol! Cheers!
The foamyneas of the “gas” plus the oily residue makes me think its contaminated with diesel. It may have happened at the gas station or someone messing with the old lady
Wow great diag guys. I suspected something was amiss with the fuel when I saw all the smoke that engine was producing.... but that was bonkers ! Well done as usual Ivan !
Great video as usual. I thought it would be the fuel. I had a problem with bad petrol (gas) a couple of years ago with a car fitted with a carburettor, It did start and run but had almost no power, big problem was it kept running after the ignition was turned off, In fact it had more power while "dieseling" than with the ignition on. No accidental miss fuelling with diesel just very stale petrol (gas).
@12:43 I don't think anything I couldn't suggest would be quick. Timing might be the simplest to check just to verify its in line. I think I'd want to check fuel pressure. Then after that probably the fuel injectors. If both of these are in line, then it's probably something in the ECM.
Nice job. At last summer I,ll also make mistake with my Nissan Quashqai on holiday trip.. I put diesel pistol to tank but the pistol size was bigger and nothing happens. Many persons here Finland what I know has put benzin (gasolin) to diesel car and after that they was big problems.
Did they put ATF in the gas? Way back, people swore by it. Today, a very bad idea! Good diag! Don's a cool guy, and always good to bring someone in to get a second opinion on a really tricky car!
I’ve been burned with this before, car had red farm diesel in it. I’ve also seen from some of the older gas stations water contamination in the fuel, for any misfire on more than one cylinder il sample the fuel from the rail into a glass bottle to see if it separates. Good call on the bad fuel, might have been k1 kerosene or home heating oil.
I've seen people do just that. pull up to a pump with both diesel and gasoline and grab the diesel nozzle. USUALLY you can smell the difference clearly, but if it was only 10 litres of diesel in a tank of gas you may not I suppose. You wont be bothered by mosquitoes for a few hours with all that smoke! :)
You can't add diesel to a petrol car in Australia because the diesel pump nozzle is larger than the hole in the filler tube. But the reverse can happen.
@@breezy1849 Same here in Texas. My mind was on a seriously ill relative and was in a hurry. Stopped to fill up and grabbed the diesel handle but the nozzle (luckily) wouldn't fit. It was even green to differentiate the difference. I stopped, took a breath and realized my mistake. Couldn't believe I did such a thing....but, it happens.
@@namvet-l8m _" It was even green to differentiate the difference"_ In the UK the pump handle is normally green for petrol/gas and black for diesel, seems odd that there is no world wide standard on this.
@@namvet-l8m You CAN put diesel in a gas car in Texas. Even with the bigger diesel nozzle. I have seen it done. They put the diesel nozzle into the wider top part of the fill line and slowly meter it in. A guy filled his tank with diesel that way at an Exxon in Sequin.
I used to do all the diag work for a local shop after they part cannon'd them... Somehow these vehicles would be there for years!! I got in the habit of checking the fuel quality real quick at that place 😆 if it wasn't varnished gas it was contaminated or mystery fluid lol😂
Wow Ivan if this wasn't a pleasant surprise. One shop most likely put bad gas in so they could overcharge her for whatever repair they came up with.I hope not.Excellent thought process......Pete
Have exactly the same problem with my Jag. Son put some Derv in a can and like a fool I did not check the contents. Purged the fuel line and injectors and still no start. After watching this video I am wondering if it is the fuel in the oil messing things about. Feedback would be gratefully received.
This reminded me of something my dad told me as a kid, "If you have a gas vehicle that had diesel put in the tank don't shut the engine off. Drive it straight home where you can drain the tank. If you turn it off, you won't get it started again."
I was thinking it was the mass airflow sensor....bad gas, that's pretty interesting, especially as there wasn't much in the tank. I remember that truck you guys did....bad plug wires.
We get diesel in gas units all the time at the airport smokes like mad usually you can smell it but they will run quite poorly same with gas in diesels see this to
Had a few of those. One was a Tundra, run like crap after a hard stop had a bubble of water in bottom of tank. Other ones were milky looking gas after college parties. LOL. Students keep up busy.
Fresh gasoline is nearly clear. If it looks dark, it is old. If you take some and put a little in a open glass jar for a few weeks, it will not all evaporate, like fresh gas does. It will leave an oily liquid in the jar which doesn't smell like gasoline. It happened to me after years of keeping my fuel tank filled up & not driving much. The Expedition started cutting out whenever I tried to accelerate. Otherwise, it started and ran fine without setting any codes. I drove it for about a month until I was down to 1/8 tank, put $45 of gas in, & it has been running fine ever since. I drained some of the old fuel out when changing the fuel filter. It is still sitting in a jar. It looks like a thin oil, transparent with a brownish tint. I'm surprised the old Ford 4.6 liter 2 valve ran on that stuff. I got a laugh when I thought that this might be the next government pollution control strategy - a vehicle that won't allow you to accelerate fast because it wastes fuel. I see the EPA is adopting new pollution rules for ICE which will further limit NOx and CO2 emissions. That should be an engineering challenge. No doubt the ultimate goal is to make ICE so complex and expensive that people will be forced to go all electric. Seeing how they reduce CO2 from a ICE should be interesting. Anyone wanting a new non-electric vehicle might want to purchase a new one before the new designs emerge in a few years. I think the deadline is 2032 but I could be wrong. I'm glad I have an enclosed garage with 240 volt service in it.
Not tough to do basic tests on gasoline for alcohol and water. Just need a couple of CLEAN, clear bottles, a proper hydrometer and glass or HPDE measuring cylinders. Measuring cylinders good for testing fuel injectors as well. Bernie has a couple of good vids going over gasoline testing in the field. Your NOSE helps when it comes to REALLY OLD gasoline, but I've driven plenty of cars to gas station, on their old gasoline, after sitting for YEARS!
Interesting case study. Thanks for taking us along on this one Ivan. As Steve Lehto UA-cam lawyer from Michigan always says get a receipt every time you purchase fuel.
I had a 2014 versa about a year n half ago come in. Lady said she had it at 10 different shops couldn’t figure out why it wouldn’t run. It was just like the car in this video. The prior shops had replaced literally every thing under the hood. After pulling my hair out for a week checking everything. I said let’s get a fuel sample. Found that it looked green and oily looking. Spoke to the customer and she said oh i did put e85 in cuz a friend told her it was better for the car and cheaper 🤦🏿♂️ put fresh fuel in it and it ran like a top!
The liquid something for oil and semi flammable fuel, Italian tune up, back on the road. Great job again diagnosing that one. I had money on the mass air flow sensor I saw it climb to 90 plus grams a second I thought, that is enough air for a jet engine lol. Fuel didn't enter my mind until you mentioned it. I guess when you have air, fuel and spark all at the correct time you have to start checking if those are good quality. PHAD is like the 911 for a lot of shops.
Man I always get my car geek fix here . Thanks ! . I have the blue driver ob2 tool . Does a better diag tool give more information on a 96 GMC van ? IE AWD or transmission . Thanks in advance
A gas station near my home has green pump handles for both the gas and diesel. I wonder if someone went to a station like this and put diesel in it by accident?
What I like to do is put a few ounces of the test fuel into a beaker, then add a few ounces of Known good fuel and see if they separate. Quick easy test.
Wouldn't diesel in the fuel produce dense white smoke? Is that what we're seeing to start with? It did in the days of carburettors when they'd tend to keep running. What other liquid fuels does the gas station sell that might have got partly mixed in. All assumes of course the tanker driver didn't mess up when delivering last.
I kept thinking "Fuel delivery issue" throughout the video, and when the final culprit was found, it does sort of make sense. It's wild to think that some dumped some unknown fuel into grandma's car, but I can't argue with facts.
So final result. Was it diesel or water in the fuel tank? Depending on where customer got the magic fuel, that will determine what the fuel content was. I know what water in the gas is like. Had that one time in Massachusetts during the winter. The Shell station had received a load of contaminated (water in fuel) fuel. I used denatured alcohol about 2 quarts to about 10 to 12 gallons of gas. That absorbed a lot of the water and made the mixture burnable. Next day all was well.
When you said a little old lady drives this car the first thing I thought was, I wonder how often she drives it. Twice a week to the store and to church. Fuel quality would definitely be a concern in that case if she isn't refueling enough and the gas goes stale. I got to admit though, that barrel you guys put the gas in looks like diesel fuel color to me.
Given it has a returnless fuel system, wpuld have been kinder for the starter to have unhooked the line at engine and purged out the mystery fuel than keep cranking it.
This is why I keep a 1 liter graduated cylinder in the shop. You can see what separates out in a 10min test. Cloudy = moisture saturated alcohol content, Yellow-green = diesel, Clear = normal 10% ethanol. Sometimes I add a few drops of motorvac fluid to test for other unknown chemicals like paint thinner. Goes cloudy vs other chemicals, including sugar. I used to use a centrifuge, but stopped when 10% ethanol was the norm. Study your chemistry, kids. Key to the universe.
I purchased 2 gallon of fuel from station that Diesel had put in gas tank.front page news so i knew what to check for.ive had 2 customer manage to put fuel from diesel pump into gas tank .I ask now have you recently bought fuel , how long ago?
And had all the parts including the kitchen sink thrown at it now it probably needs a starter but the problem was bad gas wonder if the gas was mostly water or diesel fuel or recreational fuel or something?
Oily, reddish fuel. Looks like off-road or farm diesel. Usually when I see old gas, it looks dark yellow and has distinct smell most of us know and love lol. Nice work Ivan!
Stay gold.
Smells like varnish.
Old gas smell, you don't forget it, like a skunk, and oil from a differential.
Someone filled up at grandpa's old farm.
Probably someone using a few tune up in a cans combined with or to correct for using e85 - because it's cheaper.
Reddish color could be ATF oil too, but it would be a bit weird for it to enter the gasoline system.
However some vehicles do have really strange systems for regulating pressure of the fuel system or controlling the gearbox.
I have however heard about a car where the engine did run badly, smoked a lot and the oil level in the engine did raise - it was a vacuum control valve on the automatic gearbox that was broken and leaked ATF oil into the manifold. But the fuel wasn't impacted in that case.
Fuel being wonky is sometimes the last thing you think of because we just assume it’s “right”. Ivan has taught me when running into a “dead end” on a diagnosis, always check your “assumed goods” because you never know what you might find.
Yep, I returned my prior car to run on e85 and thought of how much of a loop it would throw a tech if I just sold it and they put gasoline in it. It would be super running rich for no reason.
They'd get it if they threw a new computer at it, but then the fuel injectors would be wrong!
Lots of variables sometimes, which is why having a solid understanding of the systems helps.
I will agree that I wasn't thinking fuel on this one... I suspected severe over fueling from the maf.
That car suffered from “food poisoning”! Nice troubleshooting Ivan!
Wow I can see why people would drive 100s and 100s of miles to have you fix there car ,i have took my sar to shops for same problem three winters and it didnt get fix. I figured it out myself. It had a miss till it got warm take it to shop they said # 3 coil 1300$ to replace fixed it 8n warm shop they said they had fixed, so nent cold morning same problem . I took heating pad put ❤ontop of pcm car started that sold morning tan fine so took and had pcm replaced, nomore problems. I love watching the video's of yours. Keep then coming. I wish all mechanics had your passion to fix cars❤❤
Dear God Ivan...you put my teeth on edge racing an unloaded engine & allowing it to run at 4or 5000 RPM
with no load. . Your diagnoses are always logically thought out & you share a lot with your viewers.
Stress analysis of crankshafts being repeatedly "torqued" by jazzing the throttle show ugly alterations in the molecular structures of the metal. Admittedly, small engines, & especially 4 cylinder in line engines are least likely to be adversely affected by such actions. Great diagnosis my friend.
Actually, sending a sample of that fuel to a lab might provide some useful info.
Just run it through the lawn mower and keep it moving.
@@calholli lol!
There was so much smoke coming out the Nissan I could smell it through the TV lol! It is a shame that so many parts were thrown at it for it being an incorrect fuel issue. Though admittedly, I guess when all you have is a rough runner, with extreme measures just to get it running and no other clues, information, the last thing you would consider is incorrect fuel type, especially if you were not the first workshop to look at it.
Good pick up gents.
Four channels on the scope, I though we were going to have a Bernie level interesting case study! Thanks Ivan.
I had a situation like this a couple of years ago. 2 vehicles in fact, had a tank full of Kerosene. The smell and smoke coming from the exhaust gave it away. And apparently, neither customer had any idea how that could have happened. Smh. Anyway, I enjoyed watching your process of elimination. I was very surprised that the injectors were still ok after all that. Nice work Ivan.
kerosene is a great cleaner LOL
@@ua7pyro591 I thought it was acetone
Great case study!! Makes me smile to see a couple mechanics having a chuckle there at the end too!👍✌️
I went through a similar issue after replacing valve cover gaskets on a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. Originally ran fine, the started misfiring. Second guessed myself multiple times…plugs, coils, injector seals, as fuel trims also high. Turns out that one of the coolant lines to the throttle body has been switched with the vacuum line to the EVAP system, causing coolant to be sucked back into the fuel tank through the charcoal canister system. Even after draining almost all of the fuel, it took two fuel changes to get the car to nit randomly misfire. With modern fuels, the gasoline will emulsify the water / coolant and still allow the engine to run, but it will not run well.
Mystery red substance? Looks like she added heating oil to the tank. I have seen a gas station with regular looking pumps dispensing the stuff - but only REALLY far out in the country.
Great video Ivan! Contaminated gas is really hard to diagnose since we don't have a PID for it. I've seen the data does not reflect the actual symptom because the ecu's does not know what to do! The tool I have to do injector cleaning from BG help me to isolate this condition! This was a good one Ivan! thank you for sharing!
I had a similar situation, but luckily was given more clues. My neighbor (late 70's or early 80's) asked me to look at her Corolla that was bucking and misfiring. Somehow, she told me that she was stockpiling fuel, because the grocery store was giving out fuel points with grocery purchases, and the discount was good for 20 gallons. Since her car didn't hold 20 gallons, she'd fill it and put the rest of the 20 in plastic fuel containers. Get this: she took me over and showed me several gas containers sitting on the ground under tarps in her back yard! Since at the time I didn't even have a decent scan tool and she asked about taking it back to the dealer, and I told her to do that. I think they replaced an injector, among other things. Glad I didn't tear into it - and truly, I was not capable. However, I did come thru on the lawn mower when she ran the gas in it. Drained the fuel bowl and mostly water came out! I see the kerosene or diesel you dealt with as an order of magnitude more difficult than what I dealt with! That was a tough one!
When you described the low miles and age, then showed the symptoms, bad or old gas was my first thought. I had to look after an even lower miles car that wasn't being driven except when I was there every few weeks.
Literally only put max $10 each time, drove it 60-70 miles. Just to keep it healthy.
Great case study Ivan. The green hue in the fuel gave it away. It happens a lot here in the uk, especially out in the Shires 🙂
I had a 2012 Quest that did the same thing. Had to replace the MAF sensor and the air intake hose. The shop that changed my oil caused a small tear. This was right after the transmission was changed at the dealer. CVT never again. Great job Ivan.
After you made a connection to the MAF output signal, what about bleeding off some of the signal to ground through a resistor to reduce the amount of injected fuel and see if the engine runs? Does the output signal from the MAF, when measured by 'scope or multimeter read the same as what ECU says it is? It may also be interesting to measure the MAF signal without it being connected to the ECU as this could help identify an electrical or electronic fault in the MAF circuit.
Regarding the gas, I once ended up with contaminated fuel that resulted in my carb jet clogged with a white, almost gelatinous substance. If there is an absence of odor then maybe it's very old gas that may also be contaminated. Such a situation might occur if someone was very low on gas and someone else offered to help them out with a fuel can they had in the garage which had, unfortunately, been there for years and should have been properly disposed of years ago. The gas can may also have contained another fluid and then filled or topped up with gas and then put in the vehicle.
Had a very similar problem on a race car. A local gas station swapped their 109 octane to diesel. My brother might of got one lap in before it started sputtering and smoking.
I got my daughter a 2008 Sentra like this with the 2.0 and last owner destroyed the motor (never checked the oil until it blew up at 150k. I got a $600 JDM engine on ebay and put it in and its been rinning strong with 175k...even with the original CVT... I thought for sure the CDT would go out...knock on wood... It's still taking along for her in college. That 2.0 is a beast. As long as you keep up with the maintenance.
The engine came into the shop with 33k miles and left with 133k.🤣
Nothing like a good cold start oil diluted revving session to really break those piston rings in!
HA HA HA 🤣
Lmao!! I thought the exact same thing 🤣🤣😂.
Yep, I bought a used 73 CB750 Honda with only 800 miles on it in Jan of 73. It ran great. After buying it I stopped at a country store and filled it with gas. By the time I got home it was running ragged. I changed the spark plugs and it was slightly better. After a while it needed gas again and after filling it again, it ran great again. I thought I had bought a pos but nope it was the old country store's fault.
You should have been able to smell contaminated gas in the exhaust smoke, your sense of smell is a finely calibrated tool. pumping fuel into a glass jar and looking at it helps too. Older guys like me would have gone there earlier, because bad fuel happened more often when we started messing with cars. looks like red diesel.
Yessiree, our noses tend to have much more experience with "gas" and other minerals !
After covid, who can smell?
@@williamwhite9767 agree, had it twice now
25 years ago I remember "bad fuel" being one of the 1st things you checked with an issue like this. For a long time now it is either a lost art with newer techs or it is in reality so hard to put diesel or k2 in a gasoline filler that you hardly see it. TBH Im not sure it would have ever crossed my mind either lol
HE forgot how to do the basics Thats what gets a lot of people in trouble
When you showed all the smoke my first thought was she mixed diesel by mistake. Saw that once at the Dave’s South Amoco I worked at in college.
diesel mixed in for sure. Can tell the way it was all carboned up on the gravel.
My first thought was diesel fuel but mass air flow sensor seemed to be reporting an abnormally high air flow which would be a reason that the computer would give it too much fuel. Maybe the lady should buy gas at a full service island but the diesel nozzle shouldn't fit in a gas tank filler. Perhaps somebody else used her car, like a grandchild and used a fuel container that someone had put diesel fuel or kerosene into. If the fuel pump was changed could the shop that changed it have drained the gasoline and gotten it mixed up with diesel fuel?
@@tiredoldmechanic1791 in PA it's cheaper to do self service (pump your own)
She paid for it badly though
Nasty problem! Great diagnostic! Just a slip-up at the gas station and you pick the wrong hose - I don't know about the US now (last time I've driven there was some 30 years ago), but in Europe you tend to have up to 4 hoses side by side, part gasoline and part diesel. However, you normally have an audible reminder of the fuel chosen, before you start to fill.
This reminded me of an old episode of Top Gear, where they put gasoline in a diesel car and diesel in a gasoline car, to watch the results.
Diesel hose end has bigger diameter, you shouldn't be able to put it in gasoline car.
@@petrnemecek4379 You are right, in principle, but let me quote Wikipedia, for lack of an alternative source: "The nozzle on diesel pumps is supposed to be larger so that it cannot fit into the filler pipe on a vehicle tank designed for gasoline. However, the larger diameter diesel nozzles are not an actual requirement, and many diesel pumps have been fitted with standard gasoline nozzles."
Depends on the stations but most have 3 gas octanes, an "e-15" or "e-85" or both and a diesel. Wal-mart for example has 4 options per pump here. But they are color coded. I wonder if it was e-85. Usually black or red for gas, blue for ethanol and green for diesel. That pink color does remind me of kerosene. Awful stuff but can't see how you'd do that by mistake. If you are red/green color blind that doesn't help much... hm.
@@MTLeopold Thanks for that explanation, Mike!
@12:47...I would check the TPS and IAC sensors and circuits!
Around here some gas stations sell kerosene out of a fuelpump. Usually separated from the rest, but like they said, little old lady driver mite have gotten confused and added kerosene to her rig
I called diesel fuel right before you said it. As someone else said, the reddish tinge looks like off-road diesel. Years ago I went to a new Texaco station and topped off the tank on my 351 Ranchero. Got down the road a ways and it started running terrible. Called the station up and sure enough, the tanker filled the underground tank for the premium gas pump with diesel. They paid to drain my tank but it began a downhill slide for that engine.
It was a 351, it was on a downward slide since it left the factory
@@JackS425 Ha, nothing wrong with Windsors, I've got a 5.0 with 307K on the clock, never had the heads off and it's never been touched internally.
@@FordV8Forever I am just joking, those Windsors and Clevelands seem to last forever
I heard in the last couple of years of a gas station where the tanker truck had filled the underground tanks for gasoline with diesel. Maybe a similar case here if not just operator error?
17:29 you called it. Nice work to get a multiple issue diagnostic mapped without draining the cannon.
Looks like its gonna need a new starter when your third and a couple rod bearings
I learned first things you check on a problematic engine: Air, fuel and fire in the hole (spark)! I already got a diesel van with gasoline lol. At Brazil is very normal to have adulterated fuel. This is an "old system engine", newer ones have the expected torque calculated. So, if you you have less power than expected, the light will glow! Really nice work!!!!!
A quick test for diesel mixed with gas, pour on clean steel work bench. Pure gas will evaporate and leave no residue. Diesel will leave an oily residue, because oil does not evaporate. Been there many times.
This sounds similar to what I did to my 1988 Toyota 4x4 I accidentally filled it with diesel and even after draining it and changing the filter still had these symptoms for awhile.
Hey, Ivan How do you explain the the high maf voltage during cranking?
I feel like I am watching the automotive version of a Wireshark capture. Keep up the great work!
I wonder if the fuel delivery guy accidentally put diesel in the underground gas tank. I hauled fuel for quite a while, and it's not uncommon for stations to order small amounts of diesel compared to their gas orders, since they normally sell less. So maybe the station ordered 500ish gallons of diesel, and that mistakenly got dropped into a 5,000 gallon gas tank. Essentially making a 10% gas/diesel mix that is enough to run a gas engine off of, but it's not going to like it. That would also explain why it was highly flammable but still left an oily stain.
We’ve seen it several times over the years. Last time was 16 year old first trip to self serve. She thought she was buying cleaner fuel because handle was “Green”.
My teacher in school when i went for automotive told me that the inlets for when the tankers drop off fuel to the gas station are the same fitting sizes so they could have put diesel in the gas tank at the station or vice versa. He used to own a local mom and pop gas station here.
N im not talking about at the pump im talking about the tanks that the pumps draw fuel from.
Great diag, Thanks! I had this on a Corolla a while back and the way I got to it was with process of elimination. I wish I would have a definitive test to do on fuel besides the ethanol content.
Yup process of elimination for sure 👌
I was expecting you to open the airbox, remove the air filter and find a HUGE mouse nest. Great video!
did it really seem like a clogged air intake?
Nice work. Who would have guessed contaminated fuel was the culprit?
Wow, I never would have thought bad fuel. I was leaning towards something with the fuel system. I was thinking more on the line of clogged fuel injectors. This was a great video, I learned a lot!
I would have checked the signals on the mass air sensor especially the ground right off the bat. Good catch on the fuel problem.
Had a crank no start like this. Customer filled up with diesel. Good work
One thing everyone should remember is that cranking an engine for a long time with injection working but no spark / combustion, pumps out a lot of gasoline vapour from the exhaust. This vapour is heavier than air and spread on the floor.
In a closed spacee, if there is an ignition source, like a wood stove, compressor etc, nasty things can happen. Yet it is quite common to see YT videos where the door is not opened or exhaust hose attached when cranking the engine for minutes. People do not smell the vaporised gas, as their noses are far above from the floor.
You had the doors open, well done.
After you verified mechanical and spark timing I started to wonder if MAF was bad. At this point it's either that or excessive fuel pressure...
Loved the video. I laughed out loud at, "...you think someone pissed in the tank? ...".
That foam is a big sign it's Diesel
G'day, Ivan! Well suggesting, there's your problem lady... "E85!!" As you folks may have noticed already. Ethanol is flammable!! Meaning: The customer went to the gas station, thinking she would save money, and bought some E85 fuel. (contains 85% ethanol)
Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) is a liquid made from “biomass,” containing various plant materials like corn grain. It is renewable and domestically produced for transportation fuel. 94% of the ethanol produced in the US is derived from corn grain starch.
On the downside, E85 burns faster and produces lesser energy than gasoline. Because denatured ethanol contains around 30% less energy per gallon than regular gas.
Suggestion... That is why the 'Nissan Sentra' was running poorly!! Lol!
Cheers!
The foamyneas of the “gas” plus the oily residue makes me think its contaminated with diesel. It may have happened at the gas station or someone messing with the old lady
Wow great diag guys. I suspected something was amiss with the fuel when I saw all the smoke that engine was producing.... but that was bonkers ! Well done as usual Ivan !
Great video as usual. I thought it would be the fuel. I had a problem with bad petrol (gas) a couple of years ago with a car fitted with a carburettor, It did start and run but had almost no power, big problem was it kept running after the ignition was turned off, In fact it had more power while "dieseling" than with the ignition on. No accidental miss fuelling with diesel just very stale petrol (gas).
@12:43
I don't think anything I couldn't suggest would be quick. Timing might be the simplest to check just to verify its in line.
I think I'd want to check fuel pressure. Then after that probably the fuel injectors. If both of these are in line, then it's probably something in the ECM.
I think you would be able to smell diesel in the gas unless it was a very small amount, still makes me wonder what happened to this car
In my opinion, diesel has very low odder now days.
@dans_Learning_Curve I disagree. The modern ULSD fuel smells different than the old high Sulphur fuels, but it still stinks like diesel fuel.
Nice job. At last summer I,ll also make mistake with my Nissan Quashqai on holiday trip.. I put diesel pistol to tank but the pistol size was bigger and nothing happens. Many persons here Finland what I know has put benzin (gasolin) to diesel car and after that they was big problems.
Did they put ATF in the gas? Way back, people swore by it. Today, a very bad idea! Good diag! Don's a cool guy, and always good to bring someone in to get a second opinion on a really tricky car!
Consensus is red off road diesel
I’ve been burned with this before, car had red farm diesel in it. I’ve also seen from some of the older gas stations water contamination in the fuel, for any misfire on more than one cylinder il sample the fuel from the rail into a glass bottle to see if it separates. Good call on the bad fuel, might have been k1 kerosene or home heating oil.
I've seen people do just that. pull up to a pump with both diesel and gasoline and grab the diesel nozzle. USUALLY you can smell the difference clearly, but if it was only 10 litres of diesel in a tank of gas you may not I suppose. You wont be bothered by mosquitoes for a few hours with all that smoke! :)
You can't add diesel to a petrol car in Australia because the diesel pump nozzle is larger than the hole in the filler tube. But the reverse can happen.
😂😂
@@breezy1849 Same here in Texas. My mind was on a seriously ill relative and was in a hurry. Stopped to fill up and grabbed the diesel handle but the nozzle (luckily) wouldn't fit. It was even green to differentiate the difference. I stopped, took a breath and realized my mistake. Couldn't believe I did such a thing....but, it happens.
@@namvet-l8m _" It was even green to differentiate the difference"_ In the UK the pump handle is normally green for petrol/gas and black for diesel, seems odd that there is no world wide standard on this.
@@namvet-l8m You CAN put diesel in a gas car in Texas. Even with the bigger diesel nozzle. I have seen it done. They put the diesel nozzle into the wider top part of the fill line and slowly meter it in. A guy filled his tank with diesel that way at an Exxon in Sequin.
I used to do all the diag work for a local shop after they part cannon'd them... Somehow these vehicles would be there for years!! I got in the habit of checking the fuel quality real quick at that place 😆 if it wasn't varnished gas it was contaminated or mystery fluid lol😂
What do you think why maf reading was so high at first when you started diagnose. At the end you put back that maf sensor, so it is good.
The gas pumped out looks like what I use to clean farm machinery parts. 2/3rds off road diesel (red) and 1/3rd gas.
Wow Ivan if this wasn't a pleasant surprise. One shop most likely put bad gas in so they could overcharge her for whatever repair they came up with.I hope not.Excellent thought process......Pete
Have exactly the same problem with my Jag. Son put some Derv in a can and like a fool I did not check the contents. Purged the fuel line and injectors and still no start. After watching this video I am wondering if it is the fuel in the oil messing things about. Feedback would be gratefully received.
This reminded me of something my dad told me as a kid, "If you have a gas vehicle that had diesel put in the tank don't shut the engine off. Drive it straight home where you can drain the tank. If you turn it off, you won't get it started again."
I was thinking it was the mass airflow sensor....bad gas, that's pretty interesting, especially as there wasn't much in the tank.
I remember that truck you guys did....bad plug wires.
On a car it would be the last thing I'd ever think of but when I'm working on boats it's the first thing I check.
That was the best case study I have seen in a long time.
We get diesel in gas units all the time at the airport smokes like mad usually you can smell it but they will run quite poorly same with gas in diesels see this to
What station fuel pump did you pull up to mam?
good of this shop to call in a 2nd opinion, rather than throwing more parts at it.
Had a few of those. One was a Tundra, run like crap after a hard stop had a bubble of water in bottom of tank. Other ones were milky looking gas after college parties. LOL. Students keep up busy.
Fresh gasoline is nearly clear. If it looks dark, it is old. If you take some and put a little in a open glass jar for a few weeks, it will not all evaporate, like fresh gas does. It will leave an oily liquid in the jar which doesn't smell like gasoline. It happened to me after years of keeping my fuel tank filled up & not driving much. The Expedition started cutting out whenever I tried to accelerate. Otherwise, it started and ran fine without setting any codes. I drove it for about a month until I was down to 1/8 tank, put $45 of gas in, & it has been running fine ever since. I drained some of the old fuel out when changing the fuel filter. It is still sitting in a jar. It looks like a thin oil, transparent with a brownish tint. I'm surprised the old Ford 4.6 liter 2 valve ran on that stuff. I got a laugh when I thought that this might be the next government pollution control strategy - a vehicle that won't allow you to accelerate fast because it wastes fuel.
I see the EPA is adopting new pollution rules for ICE which will further limit NOx and CO2 emissions. That should be an engineering challenge. No doubt the ultimate goal is to make ICE so complex and expensive that people will be forced to go all electric. Seeing how they reduce CO2 from a ICE should be interesting. Anyone wanting a new non-electric vehicle might want to purchase a new one before the new designs emerge in a few years. I think the deadline is 2032 but I could be wrong. I'm glad I have an enclosed garage with 240 volt service in it.
Not tough to do basic tests on gasoline for alcohol and water. Just need a couple of CLEAN, clear bottles, a proper hydrometer and glass or HPDE measuring cylinders. Measuring cylinders good for testing fuel injectors as well. Bernie has a couple of good vids going over gasoline testing in the field. Your NOSE helps when it comes to REALLY OLD gasoline, but I've driven plenty of cars to gas station, on their old gasoline, after sitting for YEARS!
Interesting case study. Thanks for taking us along on this one Ivan. As Steve Lehto UA-cam lawyer from Michigan always says get a receipt every time you purchase fuel.
I had a 2014 versa about a year n half ago come in. Lady said she had it at 10 different shops couldn’t figure out why it wouldn’t run. It was just like the car in this video. The prior shops had replaced literally every thing under the hood. After pulling my hair out for a week checking everything.
I said let’s get a fuel sample. Found that it looked green and oily looking. Spoke to the customer and she said oh i did put e85 in cuz a friend told her it was better for the car and cheaper 🤦🏿♂️ put fresh fuel in it and it ran like a top!
The liquid something for oil and semi flammable fuel, Italian tune up, back on the road. Great job again diagnosing that one. I had money on the mass air flow sensor I saw it climb to 90 plus grams a second I thought, that is enough air for a jet engine lol. Fuel didn't enter my mind until you mentioned it. I guess when you have air, fuel and spark all at the correct time you have to start checking if those are good quality. PHAD is like the 911 for a lot of shops.
Wet plugs or oily plugs? All that smoke; a bit of diesel in the tank?
Man I always get my car geek fix here . Thanks ! . I have the blue driver ob2 tool . Does a better diag tool give more information on a 96 GMC van ? IE AWD or transmission . Thanks in advance
Yes get a real scanner you won't regret it 👍
A gas station near my home has green pump handles for both the gas and diesel. I wonder if someone went to a station like this and put diesel in it by accident?
Should look for the receipt when the car was last filled up !!
Probably wrote a $5 check to the gas station and didn't get a receipt.
What I like to do is put a few ounces of the test fuel into a beaker, then add a few ounces of Known good fuel and see if they separate. Quick easy test.
Certainly compare two samples side by side
Is there a prophylactic for CVT ?
ANOTHER great catch Ivan!
Wouldn't diesel in the fuel produce dense white smoke? Is that what we're seeing to start with? It did in the days of carburettors when they'd tend to keep running. What other liquid fuels does the gas station sell that might have got partly mixed in. All assumes of course the tanker driver didn't mess up when delivering last.
I kept thinking "Fuel delivery issue" throughout the video, and when the final culprit was found, it does sort of make sense. It's wild to think that some dumped some unknown fuel into grandma's car, but I can't argue with facts.
What happens to ethanol gas when it gets extremely old?
So final result. Was it diesel or water in the fuel tank? Depending on where customer got the magic fuel, that will determine what the fuel content was. I know what water in the gas is like. Had that one time in Massachusetts during the winter. The Shell station had received a load of contaminated (water in fuel) fuel. I used denatured alcohol about 2 quarts to about 10 to 12 gallons of gas. That absorbed a lot of the water and made the mixture burnable. Next day all was well.
When you said a little old lady drives this car the first thing I thought was, I wonder how often she drives it. Twice a week to the store and to church. Fuel quality would definitely be a concern in that case if she isn't refueling enough and the gas goes stale. I got to admit though, that barrel you guys put the gas in looks like diesel fuel color to me.
Do you think it may have been 2-stroke fuel in the tank?
Given it has a returnless fuel system, wpuld have been kinder for the starter to have unhooked the line at engine and purged out the mystery fuel than keep cranking it.
This is why I keep a 1 liter graduated cylinder in the shop. You can see what separates out in a 10min test. Cloudy = moisture saturated alcohol content, Yellow-green = diesel, Clear = normal 10% ethanol. Sometimes I add a few drops of motorvac fluid to test for other unknown chemicals like paint thinner. Goes cloudy vs other chemicals, including sugar. I used to use a centrifuge, but stopped when 10% ethanol was the norm. Study your chemistry, kids. Key to the universe.
Good job buddy i learned a lot from you. Thank you professor Pine.🤣🤣
I think the smokescreen would give away a big clue from the beginning. I’d probably test the fuel as the first couple of things
Good job sticking to your guns on this one. Great diag 🎉
Hey Keith I appreciate that! Wonder if Bernie T sells a fuel quality test kit 🤔
I purchased 2 gallon of fuel from station that Diesel had put in gas tank.front page news so i knew what to check for.ive had 2 customer manage to put fuel from diesel pump into gas tank
.I ask now have you recently bought fuel , how long ago?
Ivan did u put back the original maf
Reminds me of the one I had lol, I changed everything but the computer an that what the problem was‼️💯😂😂😂
I wonder if someone dumped an excessive amount of fuel stabilizer or some other additive in & it just got over dosed.
Doesn't even look like fuel. Looks milky. A lab result would be interesting to see. Good find fellas.
And had all the parts including the kitchen sink thrown at it now it probably needs a starter but the problem was bad gas wonder if the gas was mostly water or diesel fuel or recreational fuel or something?