I was kind of making a joke about the high cost of copper gas checks. Thanks for the reply with the interesting info. You have lots of knowledge inside your brain. Keep poring it out to us with your informational videos.
Once again I bennifit from one of your videos ! I had been under theimpression I needed a lube sizer press to install gas checks. i'm very happy to learn I can install them with a lee sizer on a standard press . Thanks again Fortune Cookie 45lc
Brian Smith - problem would be to attach them, and we don't want too much hardness going thru our barrels. But you bring up a good point - for many years, we could cast bullets that had a zinc washer put into the cavity to make base of bullet and then cast the lead around the washer - a zinc gas check. No leading. I never got into that as the standard GCs were good for me, but that idea died out for some reason. Best Regards...
magana559-Copper GCs been around for so many years, and for a while zinc washers were used, but they fell out of favor. If aluminum was good, it would have caught on long ago...staying with what works is a good rule of thumb...Best Regards...
Brian Smith reply2- I recall Elmer Keith every time I load his Keith bullets. He was the Father of Magnums and none of his Keith designs were GCs. His 22 grain/2400/245Keith is still hot magnum today and no GC. I do use GCs on rifle bullets though as well as my heavy weight cast magnum loads…Best Regards..
shrump87- A noted gun writer once wrote that as long as GCs don't just fall off, they are fine. Even if you can pry them off with heavy thumbnail pressure, once you seat that bullet into a case, additional squeeze is applied to the GC. And then when the powder charge goes off "the GC will be tapped with 40,000 psi (or more) - it won't be falling off" until the bullet smashes into armor plate that is...Best Regards...
this answers one my question about gas checking. now can you give us (me) pro and con about gas checking a cast bullet. i trying to get started in shooting hard cast bullets in 44 magnum for hunting. i going to be loading heavy bullets (240 grs) it as hot as i can go. about 1300 fps if its possible.
italianrelic-Selling cast bullets, I'd have to be making a lot more of 'em than I'm making now. And there are so many good commercial operations making them that I would be going up against.commercial operations make bullets in the extra hard BHN 22 range because no one wants bullets that get damaged in handling. And my cast bullets with home lubes aren't as pretty as the commercial guys using Carnauba Red e.g. Missouri Bullets is a good outfit - bullets are reasonable for buying. Best Regards
magana559-No, I haven't. I do not desire to make them either, as if aluminum was good, Hornady and Lyman would be making them. Even if they work as well as I think they should, the effort isn't worth it for me unless I could stamp them out 10 at a time. The other thing is that I only use GCs for my hot magnum loads and rifle loads. Most of my shooting is done without GCs even with bullets designed to use them. Thanks for your post...
Are gas checks needed on 45 long colt HSM 250gr bullets? I bought some at sportsmans and don't see any checks on them. Do any bullets come with gas checks already on them? Are they even needed for .45 colt Single action revolvers?
No gas checks are needed for standard pressure 45 colt loads. It’s originally a black powder cartridge thus the original pressure was relatively low and all modern “standard pressure” loads with smokeless are still around the 14,000psi maximum or under. Not to mention even through a lever action carbine/rifle with a 16-20” barrel the same load with a 250 grain bullet will be around 1100-1200 fps. And through a single action army or similar revolver velocity will be under 1000fps. So no gas check needed, just traditional lube, powder coat, or tumble lubing will be sufficient. 45 colt is a classic American cartridge that stands the test of time and is a blast to shoot. Also quite capable of a defense round that won’t beat you up, but WILL beat up whatever is on the receiving end of that nearly 1/2” wide projectile. Love me my 45 colt
I have come by one box of Hornady (1000) 45 cal. Gas Checks and one box of Hornady (500) 45 cal. Pistol Cups. I now understand how the first are used, how about the latter?
I think my resizing press(if that's what that is that you have here) is the same as yours. I just purchased a Lee double-cavity mold for .30-30 bullets and though they supposedly don't need sizing "as cast" I will want to gas check some of my loads. Can I do that with that press without sizing bullets? I actually got that years ago when I ordered a .45 Colt "Keith" style Lyman bullet mold.
I have that same bullet and mold, I size and check my bullets separately, (heat treating inbetween) when I go to seat the check(Lyman/ideal 45) the bullet goes in fine, but takes an immense amount of force to push the bullet back up. No check=all is well. Sized bullet+check= stuck bullet. Any ideas on what's going on?
Neal Wilkinson - If sized to your barrel as you report, only way a bullet gets stuck is 1) primer popped but did not ignite powder charge or 2) inadequate or missing powder charge. Try spritzing your bullets with our home made case lube (ISO heat and Lanolin) before sizing them - instead of that immense amount of force - will become more natural. Best to ya, FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC the bullets are getting stuck in my die when I seat the check. It goes into the die fine and easy, but I have to pound on the sizer to get the bullet out
At what velocity do you think you need to start using gas checks? I want to load 327 federal magnum for use in a Henry rifle and they will be in excess of 1500 fps.
LoneWanderer360 don't know if you'll get a response from FC45 so I'll go for it. When you need to gas check really depends on your alloy. I'm not going to go to in depth about alloys, but it means lead + tin and/or antinomy, the higher the levels of tin/antinomy the harder the alloy. To answer you question, if you hard cast you won't need to gas check, if your using a softer alloy or are unsure of the hardness you should. There are alot of good resource materials regarding alloys available, and not to hard to find. There are several hardness testers on the market, that can help you determine the quality of your alloy. FYI pure lead is really to soft for cartridge ammunition and and is best for muzzle loaders.
just saved me from having to buy gc for my 45acp it shoots around 850fps in my kimber custom tle 2. What type of lead is good to use i see diff kinds and whats a good place to buy it at thanks:)
Devon Rounsaville- Congrats on your Kimber - fine auto pistol. Rotometals may not be the absolute cheapest, but they are a good outfit to do business with. No company is without the occasional negative review, but overall, reports are good. I believe their policy of over $100 orders shipping free is still in effect. But keep checking for local supplies - your best bet. You can make inquiries at local ranges - they know sources. Good castin' to ya...
well looks like the aluminum oxides that coat the aluminum GC can be harmful to the rifling in the barrel due to the hardness of the oxides. I may still try them and see for myself.....then again a few extra bucks gets you copper GC.
How firmly are the gas checks seated? Should I be able to flick them off with my thumbnail? with the crimp I put on my 357's, I can do so (not easily though, and with pretty firm thumb strength) is that ok? Even if they feel pretty secure anyway?
Reason I ask is because I see them on Ebay for a good price per 1k heck even the copper GC are cheaper than Hornady. I Might try them and let you know how they work!
At what bullet speed on a hard cast bullet should I be using gas checks. That would be for 357 and my 32 winchester special. Thanks for the video you have a great channel.
Karl Pettigrew - I like to use velocity because it almost always couples to pressure (pressure is the better indicator - but we reloaders have no way to really measure pressure other than what is printed - so I use velocity that we can chronograph). GCs are not needed for any pistol loadings up to and including full 44 magnums (Elmer Keith shot proof loads routinely and never used gas checks). The 460 and 500 S&Ws are a different story - around 2000 fps and 50,000+ psi chamber pressures (44 full magnums are around 35,000 psi) we are going to be needing Gas Checks pronto, vite, schnell, stat - and did I say we need gas checks? For rifle loads like your 32 Win Spl - yes gas checks. Best Regards to ya...
Mr fortunecookie do you do gas checks in all you lead bullets? because I load 38spl 3.2grains green dot with 158 cast bullet and 6.2 greendot 357 and 158grbullets 12.2grains 2400 do I need gas check in my bullets ? thank you I used green dot just because it's the only powder can get know in my local store but do I need lube I pick up same bullets and still 95% the lube
ecolocosi-Not all cast bullets are designed for Gas Checks. If the base of the bullet has an instep there, then GCs are in the design. Usually, these molds are also marked with GC designation. If not, and bullet base is flush and flat - no GCs are needed. Pistol velocities usually do not need GCs. If your 158 has GC design, you might want to install them for that 12.2 2400 load though just for insurance against leading, but not for your other two loadings. Best Regards
Can you put a gas check on a bullet that doesn't have a groove to hold a gas check? I just ordered a 125gn flat nose mold for my 357 magnum. Tumble lube design. Anyone??
Dan Meadows Yes, any tool that uses a collet - like a collet crimping die or collet type bullet puller used in a press can be used to swage gas check indents into the plain base of a cast bullet. And shooters report that they can work out well. But I'd just recommend using molds that cast for gas checks. These bullets have been designed for more long range high velocity shooting. However, our plain base handgun bullets can be driven to 1600 fps just fine with no need for gas checks. Elmer Keith never used any gas checks on his bullet designs. Any rifle round from 1700-2000fps should use gas checks. Best to ya
Simah E - Your 450 grain 45/70 is definitely useful. I'll get you some data tonight when I get to my reloading manuals... Have a great day in the meantime... FC
I should have told you, your videos on casting have really helped me. Thanks for your help. I really wanted a 405 gr mold but at the time I could not find one anywhere.
BooBooJonez - No, you don't "need" the gas check. But if you got some leading because of alloy hardness or perhaps not fitting well in a micro groove gun that needs even bigger bullets, the gas check could help. Also, some bullets shoot more accurately with the gas checks installed than without. Only testing will tell you, but you don't really "need" the gas checks on a 30/30. Cast bullets and the 30/30 and 45/70 really go well together - the velocity ranges of those cartridges is right up the alley of cast bullets. Best to ya, FC Steve
Brian Smith- I was checking out (lol) other posters vids on making our own GCs, so when you were referring to substitutes, I was already in that mode. Since I shoot GCs on GC bullets ONLY when shooting the hot magnum loads, I don't need enough of the GCs to make making them myself worthwhile. We don't need to GC a bullet if we are shooting standard to +P loadings or even light magnums. Reason for GCs is prevent leading, if we don't get leading, why bother? see 2
Fortunecookie45LC, wow this is uncanny! I was just running some gas checks on those exact same bullet for a Lee 300 grain .451/.452 bullet, I'm gas checking them for my .454 Casull. But a while back I was wondering if you could run gas check bullets without the guest check in standard velocity revolvers, I guess there's my answer right there thank you. I had 1 very experienced bullet caster tell me that I should be sizing 454 Casull bullets to .451 so there's not too much pressure to deal with.
jungblud59 - Thanks for the fun comment...I suspect that your casting friend has good knowledge of your particular gun…My Super Redhawk has tight chamber throats and barrel, and if it was in 454 Casull, that .451 sounds very good indeed!! But your Casull really needs GCs and hard alloy to boot. I'd probably cast 2-1 Linotype to range scrap, water quench (BHN 19-20), GC with lube, and then tumble lube with 45/45/10 in addition before stoking 'em in those big 454 cases… Good shootin' to ya...
Fortunecookie45, I don't know that he has knowledge about my super redhawk in particular, I think he was generalizing about all .454 Casull cast bullets being better off at .451 for the pressure issue. The alloy I am using for these bullets is 92/6/2, (pb/sb/sn) and he said I could run those with gas checks up to 2200 feet per second. Although I won't be running them up anywhere near that high, maybe more like 1400 to 1500 feet per second. With that alloy and without gas checks I could run those up to 1400 feet per second anyway. Do these numbers all sound right to you?
jungblud59 Great comment for anyone interested. Your excellent 92/6/2 alloy is commonly called Hardball Alloy and is the same hardness as Lyman #2 (90/5/5). If your bullets fit your gun, you definitely can shoot them to 2000fps. Your friend knows his numbers. Even though your friend is no doubt right about 2200, I don't like pushing my cast bullets that high - if I want high velocity, I'll go with jacketed bullets - back at the turn of the 1900s when all the nations of the world were going to smokeless powder velocities going high, cast bullets would not hold the rifling = they went with jacketed bullets. 2200 may be the limit, but I'm not going to push that. In 30 cal, a 180-220 grain cast bullet at 1400-1900fps will do anything I want with a cast bullet. High velocity is for bullet expansion - hard cast bullets to hold rifling won't expand as well. If I want over 2000 - I'll take it to 2700-3200 fps with jacketed bullets. Everything in between doesn't matter to me. I don't need to push the cast bullet range, neither do I need to underperform expensive jacketed bullets. Full power 170 grain 30/30 ammo is in the 1700-1900 range and cast bullets are all you need. How many deer - elk have been taken with the 30/30? If we make our 308 - 30/06s into 30/30s with cast bullets, how useful will those be? Yes, you can definitely do your 1400 no GC thing, but if the accuracy needs to be tightened up a bit, the GCs installed (making the bullet bases more perfect), might just do the trick… Best to ya...
Robbie Fortner- Early on, I used the Lee bullet sizers in 45 and 38 cal. but I hated the LLA mess and sticky. But once I got my Lyman 450 (and my later RCBS LAM2), I gave those away to friends. Reason? - I never looked back. But since chevy6299 steered me onto the 45/45/10 system - lubing 10min/1000 bullets, that is the ultimate goodness - if your mold drops bullets .001-.0015 over what you want, you and I are in business…otherwise, I rev up my lube-sizer. Best Regards.
FortuneCookie45LC Hi I just ordered a 310 grain Lee bullet mold for my Ruger Super Redhawk in 44 Magnum and I wanted to load it with fairly soft alloy bullets that are moving fairly slow (maybe some plinking loads with IMR trailboss) anyway, the bullet is a gascheck design and I don't need to gas check it at 1300 pfs so I wondered how I avoid bullet lube getting into the place where the gas check would normaly be.
erklaerbaer01- LOL, :) forgive me for smiling, but your comment could be read that 1300 fps is your plinking load. I'm sure that's not what you meant (and besides 1300 with Trail Boss is a REAL trick and probably a KaBoom load) - So I'm sure that you are talking plinking loads around 700-750fps. Without GCs, your lube will foul every bullet base you size in sizerlubers. For your light loads, just use the 45/45/10 system (see video on that) - It's fast, neat, economical and effective. Just make sure you have ventilation for the mineral spirits. Solve all your problems with lubing...Best Regards...
erklaerbaer01 1300 for plinking - more power to ya...:) - Get the H110 / WW296 ready!! At 1300, the 45/45/10 system is still good - you might bump the LLA just a bit for extra protection against leading, but if your bullets fit your gun, you are in business with either mixture...No GCs needed even at 1500 - Elmer Keith never used 'em. Best Regards
No I haven't - the reviews on the equipment to make them and the use of them is spotty. Apparently, they work well, but my thought is that if they were that good, the ammo factories would use them or provide them since they would be cheaper to make and buy than the copper GCs. I don't use that many of them, so for me - it's not a big problem to use the copper ones. I believe it's the Hornady gas checks that are more reasonable to buy than the other companies, but I'd have to check that again... Best Regards, FC
I was kind of making a joke about the high cost of copper gas checks. Thanks for the reply with the interesting info. You have lots of knowledge inside your brain. Keep poring it out to us with your informational videos.
Once again I bennifit from one of your videos ! I had been under theimpression I needed a lube sizer press to install gas checks. i'm very happy to learn I can install them with a lee sizer on a standard press . Thanks again Fortune Cookie 45lc
Brian Smith - problem would be to attach them, and we don't want too much hardness going thru our barrels. But you bring up a good point - for many years, we could cast bullets that had a zinc washer put into the cavity to make base of bullet and then cast the lead around the washer - a zinc gas check. No leading. I never got into that as the standard GCs were good for me, but that idea died out for some reason. Best Regards...
Cycles Ov Hatred-Appreciate the comments...Have a great evening...
magana559-Copper GCs been around for so many years, and for a while zinc washers were used, but they fell out of favor. If aluminum was good, it would have caught on long ago...staying with what works is a good rule of thumb...Best Regards...
Brian Smith reply2- I recall Elmer Keith every time I load his Keith bullets. He was the Father of Magnums and none of his Keith designs were GCs. His 22 grain/2400/245Keith is still hot magnum today and no GC. I do use
GCs on rifle bullets though as well as my heavy weight cast magnum loads…Best Regards..
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shrump87- A noted gun writer once wrote that as long as GCs don't just fall off, they are fine. Even if you can pry them off with heavy thumbnail pressure, once you seat that bullet into a case, additional squeeze is applied to the GC. And then when the powder charge goes off "the GC will be tapped with 40,000 psi (or more) - it won't be falling off" until the bullet smashes into armor plate that is...Best Regards...
Thanks for video.
Hammering Hank 100, wow what a nick name 👍
Just beautiful
this answers one my question about gas checking. now can you give us (me) pro and con about gas checking a cast bullet. i trying to get started in shooting hard cast bullets in 44 magnum for hunting. i going to be loading heavy bullets (240 grs) it as hot as i can go. about 1300 fps if its possible.
I learned something...thanx
italianrelic-Selling cast bullets, I'd have to be making a lot more of 'em than I'm making now. And there are so many good commercial operations making them that I would be going up against.commercial operations make bullets in the extra hard BHN 22 range because no one wants bullets that get damaged in handling. And my cast bullets with home lubes aren't as pretty as the commercial guys using Carnauba Red e.g. Missouri Bullets is a good outfit - bullets are reasonable for buying. Best Regards
magana559-No, I haven't. I do not desire to make them either, as if aluminum was good, Hornady and Lyman would be making them. Even if they work as well as I think they should, the effort isn't worth it for me unless I could stamp them out 10 at a time. The other thing is that I only use GCs for my hot magnum loads and rifle loads. Most of my shooting is done without GCs even with bullets designed to use them. Thanks for your post...
Thanks for the video, once again, learned some good stuff here from ya FortuneCookie!
Are gas checks needed on 45 long colt HSM 250gr bullets? I bought some at sportsmans and don't see any checks on them. Do any bullets come with gas checks already on them? Are they even needed for .45 colt Single action revolvers?
No gas checks are needed for standard pressure 45 colt loads. It’s originally a black powder cartridge thus the original pressure was relatively low and all modern “standard pressure” loads with smokeless are still around the 14,000psi maximum or under. Not to mention even through a lever action carbine/rifle with a 16-20” barrel the same load with a 250 grain bullet will be around 1100-1200 fps. And through a single action army or similar revolver velocity will be under 1000fps. So no gas check needed, just traditional lube, powder coat, or tumble lubing will be sufficient.
45 colt is a classic American cartridge that stands the test of time and is a blast to shoot. Also quite capable of a defense round that won’t beat you up, but WILL beat up whatever is on the receiving end of that nearly 1/2” wide projectile.
Love me my 45 colt
Awesome job, Thanks
I have come by one box of Hornady (1000) 45 cal. Gas Checks and one box of Hornady (500) 45 cal. Pistol Cups. I now understand how the first are used, how about the latter?
Awsome
38 short colts with 105 SWC's may be getting a boost on the 4 grain universal load.
I think my resizing press(if that's what that is that you have here) is the same as yours. I just purchased a Lee double-cavity mold for .30-30 bullets and though they supposedly don't need sizing "as cast" I will want to gas check some of my loads. Can I do that with that press without sizing bullets? I actually got that years ago when I ordered a .45 Colt "Keith" style Lyman bullet mold.
I have that same bullet and mold, I size and check my bullets separately, (heat treating inbetween) when I go to seat the check(Lyman/ideal 45) the bullet goes in fine, but takes an immense amount of force to push the bullet back up. No check=all is well. Sized bullet+check= stuck bullet. Any ideas on what's going on?
Neal Wilkinson - If sized to your barrel as you report, only way a bullet gets stuck is 1) primer popped but did not ignite powder charge or 2) inadequate or missing powder charge. Try spritzing your bullets with our home made case lube (ISO heat and Lanolin) before sizing them - instead of that immense amount of force - will become more natural. Best to ya, FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC the bullets are getting stuck in my die when I seat the check. It goes into the die fine and easy, but I have to pound on the sizer to get the bullet out
What brand of dies are you using?
At what velocity do you think you need to start using gas checks? I want to load 327 federal magnum for use in a Henry rifle and they will be in excess of 1500 fps.
LoneWanderer360 don't know if you'll get a response from FC45 so I'll go for it. When you need to gas check really depends on your alloy. I'm not going to go to in depth about alloys, but it means lead + tin and/or antinomy, the higher the levels of tin/antinomy the harder the alloy. To answer you question, if you hard cast you won't need to gas check, if your using a softer alloy or are unsure of the hardness you should. There are alot of good resource materials regarding alloys available, and not to hard to find. There are several hardness testers on the market, that can help you determine the quality of your alloy. FYI pure lead is really to soft for cartridge ammunition and and is best for muzzle loaders.
David Oakley Thanks.
just saved me from having to buy gc for my 45acp it shoots around 850fps in my kimber custom tle 2. What type of lead is good to use i see diff kinds and whats a good place to buy it at thanks:)
Devon Rounsaville- Congrats on your Kimber - fine auto pistol. Rotometals may not be the absolute cheapest, but they are a good outfit to do business with. No company is without the occasional negative review, but overall, reports are good. I believe their policy of over $100 orders shipping free is still in effect. But keep checking for local supplies - your best bet. You can make inquiries at local ranges - they know sources. Good castin' to ya...
Thank you sir for the info will check em out now. Thanks again and god bless
well looks like the aluminum oxides that coat the aluminum GC can be harmful to the rifling in the barrel due to the hardness of the oxides.
I may still try them and see for myself.....then again a few extra bucks gets you copper GC.
Thanks !!!
How firmly are the gas checks seated? Should I be able to flick them off with my thumbnail? with the crimp I put on my 357's, I can do so (not easily though, and with pretty firm thumb strength) is that ok? Even if they feel pretty secure anyway?
it is almost cheaper to use Nickels for gas checks. Maybe you could try that. That would be cool.
damn i love you.... you already answered ny question
Reason I ask is because I see them on Ebay for a good price per 1k heck even the copper GC are cheaper than Hornady.
I Might try them and let you know how they work!
magana559- I'll look for your report on this…intriguing…Best Regards to ya...
What would you do if you had pc that bullet and still wanted a gas check ?? Would a lube sizer still do the job?
Edad Martin - Absolutely...and the Lee sizers also do that handily - just posted a couple of videos on gas checking PC bullets... Have a great day, FC
At what bullet speed on a hard cast bullet should I be using gas checks. That would be for 357 and my 32 winchester special. Thanks for the video you have a great channel.
Karl Pettigrew - I like to use velocity because it almost always couples to pressure (pressure is the better indicator - but we reloaders have no way to really measure pressure other than what is printed - so I use velocity that we can chronograph). GCs are not needed for any pistol loadings up to and including full 44 magnums (Elmer Keith shot proof loads routinely and never used gas checks). The 460 and 500 S&Ws are a different story - around 2000 fps and 50,000+ psi chamber pressures (44 full magnums are around 35,000 psi) we are going to be needing Gas Checks pronto, vite, schnell, stat - and did I say we need gas checks? For rifle loads like your 32 Win Spl - yes gas checks. Best Regards to ya...
thanks
Mr fortunecookie do you do gas checks in all you lead bullets? because I load 38spl 3.2grains green dot with 158 cast bullet and 6.2 greendot 357 and 158grbullets 12.2grains 2400 do I need gas check in my bullets ? thank you I used green dot just because it's the only powder can get know in my local store but do I need lube I pick up same bullets and still 95% the lube
ecolocosi-Not all cast bullets are designed for Gas Checks. If the base of the bullet has an instep there, then GCs are in the design. Usually, these molds are also marked with GC designation. If not, and bullet base is flush and flat - no GCs are needed. Pistol velocities usually do not need GCs. If your 158 has GC design, you might want to install them for that 12.2 2400 load though just for insurance against leading, but not for your other two loadings. Best Regards
Can you put a gas check on a bullet that doesn't have a groove to hold a gas check? I just ordered a 125gn flat nose mold for my 357 magnum. Tumble lube design. Anyone??
Dan Meadows Yes, any tool that uses a collet - like a collet crimping die or collet type bullet puller used in a press can be used to swage gas check indents into the plain base of a cast bullet. And shooters report that they can work out well. But I'd just recommend using molds that cast for gas checks. These bullets have been designed for more long range high velocity shooting. However, our plain base handgun bullets can be driven to 1600 fps just fine with no need for gas checks. Elmer Keith never used any gas checks on his bullet designs. Any rifle round from 1700-2000fps should use gas checks. Best to ya
I bought a 450 grain bullet mold, and I'm having a hard time finding a powder load for .45-70. Is this even a good bullet for lever guns?
Simah E - Your 450 grain 45/70 is definitely useful. I'll get you some data tonight when I get to my reloading manuals... Have a great day in the meantime... FC
I should have told you, your videos on casting have really helped me. Thanks for your help. I really wanted a 405 gr mold but at the time I could not find one anywhere.
Now everything seems easy to get.
Simah E - I'm still working on getting that data for you...please stay tuned... Have a great day, FC
So, does that mean you wouldn't need a gas check for a 30-30 Winchester bullet?
BooBooJonez - No, you don't "need" the gas check. But if you got some leading because of alloy hardness or perhaps not fitting well in a micro groove gun that needs even bigger bullets, the gas check could help. Also, some bullets shoot more accurately with the gas checks installed than without. Only testing will tell you, but you don't really "need" the gas checks on a 30/30. Cast bullets and the 30/30 and 45/70 really go well together - the velocity ranges of those cartridges is right up the alley of cast bullets. Best to ya, FC Steve
What is a .45 LONG Colt?
can i use my lee sizer?
Brian Smith- I was checking out (lol) other posters vids on making our own GCs, so when you were referring to substitutes, I was already in that mode. Since I shoot GCs on GC bullets ONLY when shooting the hot magnum loads, I don't need enough of the GCs to make making them myself worthwhile. We don't need to GC a bullet if we are shooting standard to +P loadings or even light magnums. Reason for GCs is prevent leading, if we don't get leading, why bother? see 2
have you tried aluminum gas checks?
Another great vid cookie would you be willing to sell any cast bullets?
Fortunecookie45LC,
wow this is uncanny! I was just running some gas checks on those exact same bullet for a Lee 300 grain .451/.452 bullet, I'm gas checking them for my .454 Casull. But a while back I was wondering if you could run gas check bullets without the guest check in standard velocity revolvers, I guess there's my answer right there thank you.
I had 1 very experienced bullet caster tell me that I should be sizing 454 Casull bullets to .451 so there's not too much pressure to deal with.
jungblud59 - Thanks for the fun comment...I suspect that your casting friend has good knowledge of your particular gun…My Super Redhawk has tight chamber throats and barrel, and if it was in 454 Casull, that .451 sounds very good indeed!! But your Casull really needs GCs and hard alloy to boot. I'd probably cast 2-1 Linotype to range scrap, water quench (BHN 19-20), GC with lube, and then tumble lube with 45/45/10 in addition before stoking 'em in those big 454 cases… Good shootin' to ya...
Fortunecookie45,
I don't know that he has knowledge about my super redhawk in particular, I think he was generalizing about all .454 Casull cast bullets being better off at .451 for the pressure issue.
The alloy I am using for these bullets is 92/6/2, (pb/sb/sn) and he said I could run those with gas checks up to 2200 feet per second. Although I won't be running them up anywhere near that high, maybe more like 1400 to 1500 feet per second.
With that alloy and without gas checks I could run those up to 1400 feet per second anyway.
Do these numbers all sound right to you?
jungblud59 Great comment for anyone interested. Your excellent 92/6/2 alloy is commonly called Hardball Alloy and is the same hardness as Lyman #2 (90/5/5). If your bullets fit your gun, you definitely can shoot them to 2000fps. Your friend knows his numbers. Even though your friend is no doubt right about 2200, I don't like pushing my cast bullets that high - if I want high velocity, I'll go with jacketed bullets - back at the turn of the 1900s when all the nations of the world were going to smokeless powder velocities going high, cast bullets would not hold the rifling = they went with jacketed bullets. 2200 may be the limit, but I'm not going to push that. In 30 cal, a 180-220 grain cast bullet at 1400-1900fps will do anything I want with a cast bullet. High velocity is for bullet expansion - hard cast bullets to hold rifling won't expand as well. If I want over 2000 - I'll take it to 2700-3200 fps with jacketed bullets. Everything in between doesn't matter to me. I don't need to push the cast bullet range, neither do I need to underperform expensive jacketed bullets. Full power 170 grain 30/30 ammo is in the 1700-1900 range and cast bullets are all you need. How many deer - elk have been taken with the 30/30? If we make our 308 - 30/06s into 30/30s with cast bullets, how useful will those be? Yes, you can definitely do your 1400 no GC thing, but if the accuracy needs to be tightened up a bit, the GCs installed (making the bullet bases more perfect), might just do the trick… Best to ya...
Heya FC45LC Nice vid amigo..would like to see the lee bullet sizer system in action if ever you think it useful. have a good one )
Robbie Fortner- Early on, I used the Lee bullet sizers in 45 and 38 cal. but I hated the LLA mess and sticky. But once I got my Lyman 450 (and my later RCBS LAM2), I gave those away to friends. Reason? - I never looked back. But since chevy6299 steered me onto the 45/45/10 system - lubing 10min/1000 bullets, that is the ultimate goodness - if your mold drops bullets .001-.0015 over what you want, you and I are in business…otherwise, I rev up my lube-sizer. Best Regards.
FortuneCookie45LC Hi I just ordered a 310 grain Lee bullet mold for my Ruger Super Redhawk in 44 Magnum and I wanted to load it with fairly soft alloy bullets that are moving fairly slow (maybe some plinking loads with IMR trailboss) anyway, the bullet is a gascheck design and I don't need to gas check it at 1300 pfs so I wondered how I avoid bullet lube getting into the place where the gas check would normaly be.
erklaerbaer01- LOL, :) forgive me for smiling, but your comment could be read that 1300 fps is your plinking load. I'm sure that's not what you meant (and besides 1300 with Trail Boss is a REAL trick and probably a KaBoom load) - So I'm sure that you are talking plinking loads around 700-750fps.
Without GCs, your lube will foul every bullet base you size in sizerlubers. For your light loads, just use the 45/45/10 system (see video on that) - It's fast, neat, economical and effective. Just make sure you have ventilation for the mineral spirits. Solve all your problems with lubing...Best Regards...
actually you weren't misunderstanding me, 1300 pfs will be the plinking load 1500 fps will be the thumping load.
erklaerbaer01 1300 for plinking - more power to ya...:) - Get the H110 / WW296 ready!! At 1300, the 45/45/10 system is still good - you might bump the LLA just a bit for extra protection against leading, but if your bullets fit your gun, you are in business with either mixture...No GCs needed even at 1500 - Elmer Keith never used 'em. Best Regards
hey FortuneCookie45LC like your videos have you tried using the aluminum Gas Check.
No I haven't - the reviews on the equipment to make them and the use of them is spotty. Apparently, they work well, but my thought is that if they were that good, the ammo factories would use them or provide them since they would be cheaper to make and buy than the copper GCs. I don't use that many of them, so for me - it's not a big problem to use the copper ones. I believe it's the Hornady gas checks that are more reasonable to buy than the other companies, but I'd have to check that again... Best Regards, FC
didn’t know Bullwinkle cast bullets
Who the hell is Hank ?
Kenny Blacksmith Hammeringhank100 is another viewer on UA-cam that asked the question about gas checks... Best Regards to you...