I don't think that choosing a shaper instead a router table shouldn't be for power reasons. A strong plunge router installed upside down under a table can provide more than double the power of a small shaper. I have a plunge router and a couple trimmers (one of them converted in a router table) and yet I am going to to buy a shaper because 1) even the smaller models are heavier machines that will give you a firm grip over the ground and 2) it has a crank that turns the process of moving the shank up and down a piece of cake when you have to perform multiple passes. I think that only these two features are enough reason to get a shaper. Also shapers still allow you to use collets and regular router bits beside the big rotating heads. Knowing that a small shaper like the nice G0510Z from Grizzly can cost almost the same as a good plunge router plus all the necessary set up to build a decent router table, there is not too much to think about I guess. I vote for a shaper.
Man you guys in the US are lucky that quality tools are affordable, and yes your expensive prices are still cheap compared to my country. I can get a good 3hp router table for est $300-400usd, brand new. The cheapest used shaper I've seen here is like $3500usd, it's a Delta, but for that kinda money, it makes way more sense for me to burn through the 10 router tables instead, because we haven't even factored in bits/cutters. Routers are readily available here for the consumer/prosumer, but shapers tend to be owned by well established furniture factories and they don't sell equipment often and it's never cheap when they do, and those things have been worked to death for about a decade before they put them up for sale. Our local market is pretty ridiculous and it's really brought into stark contrast when a 20+ year old 6" Craftsman Jointer costs as much as a brand new 6" Rigid lol
Finally I know the difference. There’s a shaper in the cabinet shop I worked at that was used only with regular router bits while I was there. I thought maybe it’s just a large router table. But I knew there was more to it yet didn’t find much information. This video explained in a concise way.
I inherited a shaper from my father-in-law and have some nice cutting tools, but have looked in vain for affordable cutters. eBay has a set of 12 for around $50, iirc, but I have all but 2. Those 2 are cool, but I don't need double for cutters that are sharp as razers and are nearly 65 years old... Do you know where to get ½" shank cutters?
Hi Jason, thanks for your informative video on routers vs spindles/ shapers. Firstly, are spindles and shapers one and the same items. Secondly, how spindles can you recommend for a 4 garage workshop Thirdly, what price range should I expect to pay for a mid range Thanks Harry Petrie
That was a genius level non-sequitur. I'm actually a little disappointed it doesn't seem to have been intentional. Excellent breakdown of what a shaper is and how it differs from a router/table though.
I'm going to be building a sauna and have pretty much zero tools. I will be making around 120 pcs (8') v groove t&g boards and sme 1/4 round trim peices. A 1.5 hp shaper can be had for about 1k while a small router table, lift and router would be around 800. For the price it just seems like the shaper is a better way to go, am i missing something?
Taking the time to build high quality jigs and fixtures for holding small pieces on the shaper let's you enjoy all the great characteristics of a shaper without getting fingers too close.
If I can get a good used shaper for the price of a decent new router table, would you go for the shaper? I don't own either now but want something I can do trim work with as a professional home owner. :)
Shapers (called a spindle moulder in Europe) are very common in hobby shops in Europe where tooling options are much better. Go for it! You won't regret it!
so what if you were just generally doing round overs and dado's but a ton of it . would it be a shaper because of high use or is there a beefy router for heavy use of a couple of simple cuts?
Great information! What brand of shaped so you recommend? I recently bought a piece of grizzly equipment that I had to repair 13 separate issues straight out of the box. Didn't get to use the Grizzly product for a month, and it was brand new. They sent me a defective warranty part, parts that didn't even fit, and there was a back ordered part needed. I'll never buy a grizzly product again.
They work better than you might think, considering the RPM they want you to run Royer bits at. Part of the reason they want router bits so screaming fast, is they get through tough material with inertia, but shapers have enough power they don't need it.
What would you recommend for a minimum-- overall I have a pretty decent set of tools. I’m looking to build the cabinets for our kitchen. I’m considering getting a shaper.
Brenden Chatterton, A router uses a universal motor and will slow down under a load. The maximum HP of the router isn't the issue, it is the operating characteristic of a universal motor that causes a problem with larger cutters. This isn't a problem with small diameter cutters because they apply a lower torque load on the motor. When a large diameter cutter is put in a router it will slow the RPMs of the motor down. When most people try this on a router table they compensate by starting the cutter at a fast RPM hoping that the correct RPM will happen once the cutter is loaded. This usually causes unwanted vibration plus you have no real idea if the cutter is turning at the proper speed or not. A shaper uses an induction motor and will hold a constant RPM with or without a load. The cutter speed is selected before the cutting starts. Once the wood is fed into the cutter It will either remain at the proper RPM or it will stall out. If a 3/4 HP shaper does not deliver enough power, you can put a larger motor on the machine to match the application. Once the RPM is set, the cutter remains at that RPM under load and produces virtually no vibration. david
For sure! I have always gone with that motto. Even with a wide belt sander ..I bought it based on monthly payments that I could afford for five years lol
Why wouldnt ya use a shaper for a birdhouse what if your router broke and had to get a birdhouse made for a million dollars you wouldnt just use ur shaper? Duh
I don't think that choosing a shaper instead a router table shouldn't be for power reasons. A strong plunge router installed upside down under a table can provide more than double the power of a small shaper. I have a plunge router and a couple trimmers (one of them converted in a router table) and yet I am going to to buy a shaper because 1) even the smaller models are heavier machines that will give you a firm grip over the ground and 2) it has a crank that turns the process of moving the shank up and down a piece of cake when you have to perform multiple passes. I think that only these two features are enough reason to get a shaper. Also shapers still allow you to use collets and regular router bits beside the big rotating heads. Knowing that a small shaper like the nice G0510Z from Grizzly can cost almost the same as a good plunge router plus all the necessary set up to build a decent router table, there is not too much to think about I guess. I vote for a shaper.
Man you guys in the US are lucky that quality tools are affordable, and yes your expensive prices are still cheap compared to my country. I can get a good 3hp router table for est $300-400usd, brand new. The cheapest used shaper I've seen here is like $3500usd, it's a Delta, but for that kinda money, it makes way more sense for me to burn through the 10 router tables instead, because we haven't even factored in bits/cutters. Routers are readily available here for the consumer/prosumer, but shapers tend to be owned by well established furniture factories and they don't sell equipment often and it's never cheap when they do, and those things have been worked to death for about a decade before they put them up for sale. Our local market is pretty ridiculous and it's really brought into stark contrast when a 20+ year old 6" Craftsman Jointer costs as much as a brand new 6" Rigid lol
Finally I know the difference. There’s a shaper in the cabinet shop I worked at that was used only with regular router bits while I was there. I thought maybe it’s just a large router table. But I knew there was more to it yet didn’t find much information. This video explained in a concise way.
Great to hear! Thanks for watching 😊
Ok. So I have been told I can use router bits in a shaper. How do I use shsper cutters in a router? How do I get a shaft for a shaper cutter head?
I inherited a shaper from my father-in-law and have some nice cutting tools, but have looked in vain for affordable cutters. eBay has a set of 12 for around $50, iirc, but I have all but 2. Those 2 are cool, but I don't need double for cutters that are sharp as razers and are nearly 65 years old...
Do you know where to get ½" shank cutters?
Hi Jason, thanks for your informative video on routers vs spindles/ shapers.
Firstly, are spindles and shapers one and the same items.
Secondly, how spindles can you recommend for a 4 garage workshop
Thirdly, what price range should I expect to pay for a mid range
Thanks
Harry Petrie
A shaper is called a spindle moulder in Europe which is really a better name for it! A proper shaper is an immensely capable and practical machine.
Thanks a lot as this video has cleared the difference between them.
Super!!
Are we all just ignoring the accidental stray shot at 1:16?? 😄
Haha. I guess that I sure did!
@@DoingitWithjason Appreciate the video otherwise!
That was a genius level non-sequitur. I'm actually a little disappointed it doesn't seem to have been intentional. Excellent breakdown of what a shaper is and how it differs from a router/table though.
Lol, yeah looked like an editing mistake. This could use color grading between different cameras as well.
I'm going to be building a sauna and have pretty much zero tools. I will be making around 120 pcs (8') v groove t&g boards and sme 1/4 round trim peices. A 1.5 hp shaper can be had for about 1k while a small router table, lift and router would be around 800. For the price it just seems like the shaper is a better way to go, am i missing something?
You're not, the shaper makes a lot of sense!
Anybody that knows wood working, should know a shaper is the best.
SO FOR CABINET MAKER SHAPER IS TOP 3 ITEM, WHAT ARE TOP 1 AND 2. LOVE YOUR CONTENTS, SORRY FOR CAP.
Ha, thanks!
For cabinet making, very tough....hmm top 1 would be table saw and 2 would be a wide belt sander.
Is there any issues with building smaller pieces with a shaper? What if I will do a lot of small stuff, but want the extra power for occasional use?
I would not recommend a shaper for really small pieces..it's a bit more dangerous. Although, what size are you talking about?
I'm interested in doing finer little projects as well.
Taking the time to build high quality jigs and fixtures for holding small pieces on the shaper let's you enjoy all the great characteristics of a shaper without getting fingers too close.
If I can get a good used shaper for the price of a decent new router table, would you go for the shaper? I don't own either now but want something I can do trim work with as a professional home owner. :)
Shapers (called a spindle moulder in Europe) are very common in hobby shops in Europe where tooling options are much better. Go for it! You won't regret it!
so what if you were just generally doing round overs and dado's but a ton of it . would it be a shaper because of high use or is there a beefy router for heavy use of a couple of simple cuts?
I would recommend a 3 hp Porter Cable for that type of work. It's very powerful and perfect for this
I build bird houses with a Stihl 066 and doors with a hand planer that came in a Cracker Jack box
Great video man
Thanks Owen! You are such a great guy!
I didn’t know Johnny Knoxville was into woodworking
Ha! Is he??
Thank you. You saved me $$$
Edit from 1:17-1:34. You might have overlooked that in production of the video.
Great information! What brand of shaped so you recommend? I recently bought a piece of grizzly equipment that I had to repair 13 separate issues straight out of the box. Didn't get to use the Grizzly product for a month, and it was brand new. They sent me a defective warranty part, parts that didn't even fit, and there was a back ordered part needed. I'll never buy a grizzly product again.
Grizzly is garbage buy an older machine powermatic’s are good the older ones and so are the deltas,
Is feed direction same as a router table? (i just acquired a vintage Delta shaper.🧡)
Most turn in both directions.
do you have a recomendation of shapers?
Biggest, best one you can afford.
Are shapers with 10K rpm any good with small diameter bits?
They work better than you might think, considering the RPM they want you to run Royer bits at. Part of the reason they want router bits so screaming fast, is they get through tough material with inertia, but shapers have enough power they don't need it.
I have a 9 watt shaper how many hourse power is that?
9W or 900Watts. 1bhp is about 746W so do your maths
What about if you are making lots of moulding?
Then shaper over a router all the way. Or a planer molder machine is really nice and perfect for that
you can get a shape that has a adapter spindel that will take router bits
I heard about that. I wonder how well it will cut with router bits since the shaper doesn't spin as fast. Have you tried it?
Doesn’t cut well and you don’t want a shaper that small you want one that has at least a 1” spindle preferably 1 1/4
What if you're building a large bird house?
Thanks
What would you recommend for a minimum-- overall I have a pretty decent set of tools. I’m looking to build the cabinets for our kitchen. I’m considering getting a shaper.
Order the doors from a door company, it will save you time and money and they’ll be a better. Product than you can produce yourself
Minimum 3hp, 3/4" spindle. Get as big a machine as you can afford. And definitely get a power feeder.
I built a bird house with a shaper. What are trying to say??? Rage... rage... laugh... laugh.
Haha, nothing really...was a spur of the moment decision
What about a 1.5 hp shaper vs a 2 hp router with table. Is it all about the hp?
A 1.5 hp shaper would be close to a 3 hp router
Oh wow, that's very helpful.
Brenden Chatterton,
A router uses a universal motor and will slow down under a load. The maximum HP of the router isn't the issue, it is the operating characteristic of a universal motor that causes a problem with larger cutters. This isn't a problem with small diameter cutters because they apply a lower torque load on the motor. When a large diameter cutter is put in a router it will slow the RPMs of the motor down. When most people try this on a router table they compensate by starting the cutter at a fast RPM hoping that the correct RPM will happen once the cutter is loaded. This usually causes unwanted vibration plus you have no real idea if the cutter is turning at the proper speed or not.
A shaper uses an induction motor and will hold a constant RPM with or without a load. The cutter speed is selected before the cutting starts. Once the wood is fed into the cutter It will either remain at the proper RPM or it will stall out. If a 3/4 HP shaper does not deliver enough power, you can put a larger motor on the machine to match the application. Once the RPM is set, the cutter remains at that RPM under load and produces virtually no vibration.
david
@@postholedigger8726 woah, thank you
9@@postholedigger8726
You can do so much more with a shaper…… A router table is a step down shaper.
1:15 .. dafuq?
Not sure how that got in the edit lol. Thanks for letting me know 😊
He was focusing on the cardboard (where he stood all the time) then clapped probably to sync audio and video later in post
Better yet... 1:39...witff?
A shaper looks better, you don't need a router table when you have a shaper.
So it’s bigger. Got it.
So much bigger!!
the router is a mini shaper.
Pretty much
Forget the side view while talking to the forward camera other wise good info.
get the very best that you can afford
For sure! I have always gone with that motto. Even with a wide belt sander ..I bought it based on monthly payments that I could afford for five years lol
Too much jabbering and not enough demo and visual
Why waste my time with a clip of you looking confused and doing a silent slate? Unfortunate editing.
Sorry for the inconvenience, how much do I owe you?
Buy a shaper please……. Just use scrap wood to practice with.
Good video. Possibly the worst chanale name ever. Unless your trying to get a date.
Ha, thanks...hmmm..
Why wouldnt ya use a shaper for a birdhouse what if your router broke and had to get a birdhouse made for a million dollars you wouldnt just use ur shaper? Duh