The old SSI D&D games will always have a special place in my heart. The entire Krynn series, Azure bonds, even the weird Buck Rogers games. I loved them all, even as janky as they were. At the time they were just amazing. I think Pools was possibly one of the first CRPGS I was completely obsessed with. When my fighter learned to sweep... Damn! Not to mention dropping a fireball on a bunch of kobolds. So satisfying.
One of the greatest bugs in the game IS that troll battle; I had a halfling fighter/thief who was knocked down by the trolls, and after winning that battle (barely) he was infected by the trolls, and would regenerate in battles. It was amazing cos he was pretty spongy. Had that regen ability for the rest of the game. Saved me a few times.
"Speak my name 'OHLO'" - Another great blast from the past! Gotta come back for the trolls, though. Revolutionary representation of D&D for its time, and a great precedent for games to come.
It really upped the tactical with the puzzle solving in a great balance between the two that still felt true to the narrative. It's hard to believe they pushed out so many of these, but I love them all.
BTW, I always found it weird that the "Old Rope Guild" was a maze. First, what's an old rope guild? If it's literally a section of town where ropes were produced (is that a thing?), what benefit would having it be a maze be? But it's quite clever if the game designers thought that the area was "tangled like a rope". Those ruins were actually once the city of Phlan, so that area should have actually been part of a city. Wouldn't it have been cool if they had extended the storyline to retake Phlan, settle it, defend it, expand it, etc.? Anyhow, love your revisit of old games like this.
@@falloutfan2502 Glad you're enjoying our trip down Nostalgia Lane. Yeah, it struck me as odd that a place people supposedly lived and worked was hard to navigate. But it is ruins now, so I presume people who want to hide might have made it that way, but it's my own reading into things... I have zero proof of any of that.
Watching this got me thinking about the dragon lance series, so I started playing ‘champions of krynn’ on my new theC64. I love it! There are many similarities to this forgotten realms series, but some differences. It’s not as difficult, and you don’t have to pay to level up.
You can tell they learned things each iteration of the gold box, getting better and better from a player experience stand point each version and adding more and more of the 2e rules. I think I liked the DL series better, especially exploring the overworld maps, but I don't have one of them that I don't like.
One of the most unique RPG's I played is Ravenloft Stone Prophet, the game doesn't force you to level up at all, there's no grinding, you only engage in combat if you want or really need the Exp points. I usually prefer games where enemies, levels and items have some kind of randomization about them, but this game really nailed it in terms of predetermined design. Melee is scuffed though, bugged code :(
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit Just make sure to have Dosbox running in a fixed amount of cycles, recalling from memory this game would be 16.000 cycles, or 14.000, no more than 16. That's because if the CPU goes too fast it means that the enemies will have a speed advantage on combat (the game is real-time not turn-based) Also, max CPU speed will cause your characters to run out of water too fast, since that's also time-based. The game was not designed to run 30 FPS. If you see the game running "smooth" in terms of framerate it means that it is already too fast. Wish the GOG releases would pay more attention to that.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit I don't like Dosbox' newer updates, they switched to using config files (.Conf) inside the C:\Users directory, instead of using the app folder like it used to be.
I never thought about the auto map that way, that's a good point... I used to play the Diablo games by pressing TAB and just following the auto map until I had to kill something so at times I do think the auto map can delude the games they are in. Chris's keyboard looks like an old type writer and I only really know about them because my mother used to own one of the old ones, won it and a lot of bikes and a saddle, I think, from an auction. But, yeah the ink ribbons had been impossible to find for us... Due to the age of the beast, though I'm sure now that the internet is a big thing ("Now" lol) you can find them as someone who is really into old typewriters has for sure made a small business out of selling ink ribbons for antique typewriters. When I first got the game way back in the day (The C64 one, the Nintendo one came when I was a teenager, and my Rubbermaid full of Gold-Box games does not count because those were not for playing but for selling, and yes that kind of hurts to think about) Back on point! When I first started playing it I always thought that resting in a dungeon was like cheating... And I liked it! I liked how Pool of radiance starts you out with nodda and nothing but a little bit of gold. I mean you guys are adventures who showed up to... Let's face it, make money so you had to have come into it pretty broke and maybe even a little desperate. Honestly though, if you come into the game all decked out than you are not in a position of needing to "Adventure" for your gold, right? And if you had come into it as a fully trained, or even semi trained killer and not just a fighter who has learned to use a sword or knock a bow or even cast a little magic you would not be there struggling to not die and hopefully get at least a little gold. You did come to clear out part of Phlan so it sure seems like you guys are there for the money. That's way cool by the way! A haggard band of adventures showing up dressed in scant armor and all the gold they could save up to buy a few weapons to use after catching a boat. Would have gotten supplies to bring with them on the ship but they did not like the idea of putting their only gear into a chest that could easily be pilfered, and besides Phlan is a city over run with monsters so of course they have more than a few places to buy gear at and they can use their dwindling pile of coins to arm themselves and hope for the best. See? That's kind of like RP, right? So, you guys did not make it to the harbor? That one is a fun part of the game, I loved the skeletons! Not counting Dragons and the little blue slimes from my favorite Japanese console game, Skeletons are the coolest. Mindless thralls all with a singular goal, and that goal is to kill you all... And also other people, not just you, you're not special to skeletons! (Skeleton logic!) I also think I killed the trolls with a couple of sleep spells or no! I think it was paralyze or whatever it is the priest casts to subdue monsters. Important to know that Skeletons don't sleep. (Skeleton logic!) I'm just really happy to see this game being played, it's all happy memories because even when the game pissed me off, I still loved the game and that love made all the cheap party wipes done by skeletons and all the things that fought you at the first few levels. I love Snickers but hate sheet cake so as tickled as I am at the idea, I think I'm going to have to pass on the party... Make the party for 363. Ha! You guys are going to be playing Diablo because it's 20 years old now. I think I have it still, I have an old Beta of Diablo that I got trashing a house out years ago. This was one of the times I wish I had gotten there first because the other guys on the crew did not know video games so I swear they threw the boxes away. I had a copy of Dagger fall, still have the copy and judging by the collection the guy who owned it for sure had the boxes. Off note, the guy used to work at Kalypso but also tested games, that's why I have a beta of Diablo. Those are more games I had to sell off, mainly in a box pile, or all the games in a box because none of them had their boxes... I even had an Ever quest disk with a 989 studios logo on it, and that's crazy when you think about it! Neat! I made this too long too as I always do! The video was good, and it brought me back to an early time to see this played again... Thanks! (Guys your views love this channel, if you wanted to open a Patreon account I would not be against it.) ((But also, I have no idea what makes my beta of Diablo different but I think this beta was more about stability because I think anything else would have been an Alpha and I sure don't own one of them.))
The beta is actually pretty rare right now I think. It was part of Microsoft's desire to push their DirectX (I think? I know there was a version before that, and it might be that) to help them show off the game. It's 1 character, and there's some other differences. If you have it, hang on to it! ... or send it to me.
I had no idea it was that rare, I gave a way a bunch of old Madden games for the computer, I even had a beta copy maybe two of Madden 98 and an NHL game and Madden 99 and 04. Sadly as it goes, I was going to see if you wanted the Beta as for the same reason I have the Madden ones away is that you're not allowed to sell them. Anyway, I think I gave the copy to my buddy Josh and I kept a ripped copy of Diablo on an Electronic arts disk. I gave him a lot of the games from the collection I ended up with, I should see if he still has it as I'm sure he would be tickled by the idea of selling it for a few bucks... If it can be sold that is, I don't know if Diablo is old enough for selling the Beta to not matter any longer. I know it has been over 20 years no, however, Activision/Blizzard may be the kind to hold on to their properties so I will see what can be done with it, if Josh still has it.
@@galloe8933 You can ALWAYS sell your disk. Or give it away. When you buy it, you buy the rights to the physical good. It's yours now. It's part of my issue with Steam and streaming games. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine The not for resale is meant strictly so that software Etc can't bust open a bunch of demos and sell them separately. It wouldn't be illegal, but it would mean that they'd get hammered for not listening to the place that gave them the disks. As for value, keep an eye on this: www.ebay.com/itm/PC-Gamer-Disc-2-10-November-1996-Diablo-Demo-And-More/163672331728?hash=item261ba195d0:g:k0cAAOSwz1Rcv96s I feel like it'll go higher, but not sure where it'll end. I'd obviously love any collectible like that. I'm trying to build a reasonable collection here, but some things are hard to find, or over priced on ebay, and there isn't a lot of flea markets near me to go scavenging for old stuff.
Pool of Radiance is one of the first games I played on C64 back in the day. It is my go to game, It is the game that forced me to learn english reading the journal entries word for word with a crappy english dictionary. I still remember the first time I figured out how the code wheel worked (just plain luck that the same combo that was in the manual came up in game) and how many times I had to fight the main battle in Sokal keep before I finally managed to survive. I can still feel the smell of the room I sat in playing it. This game is THE game from my childhood... which just happens to be the game my brother bought and HATED. There are a number of exploits in the game, some of them are easier to figure out than others. A crappy one I saw was to create a bunch of temp characters that you then funnel the money to one guy... Considering how little you get while creating the characters this is a horribly bad idea. The better way is to use the casino. There is a bug there that allows you to come back as the winner overall, whithout having to save and load the game all the time. This works with the DOS version and most likely in the amiga and C64 versions as well. Unlimited cash 1. Go to bar to gamble 2. Listen to the dribble 3. Pay X Platinum If Green - Stop playing If Blue - Keep on playing If Red - Keep on playing offer 0 Platinum, get rejected and suddenly the money you just lost is back in your inventory 4.Repeat Unlimited XP 1. Hire a mercenary from the training hall 2. Remove the mercenary armor 3. Give all the money to the mercenary 4. Go pick a fight 5. Kill the mercenary at the end of the fight 6. Get lots and lots of XP 7.Repeat
I still love this game. As for the Troll fight, I remember being so happy when I was finally down to one troll. I won. I finally won. Then there were two. Then three. Then I was reloading. I haven't replayed it since a year or so after the first Baldur's Gate released. I had to use some MOSLO program to slow my P3 down 900% and it was still to fast to read the text in battle. Didn't matter, I still had a blast, and it was *_easier_* than I recalled it being? Probably because I was aware of the illusory door in the second to last combat area which I wasn't when I first played through it in 7th grade, going back to town thinking I would get a grand reward. Not getting one, going back, having to re-clear the castle, bumping into every wall in every room in the entirety of the last two areas because I had no clue what room I had fought the person claiming to be Tyranthraxus. What a nightmare for a little kid. Oh, when I finally did kill the Trolls I had to have been level 3 because I was able to use Acid Arrow which is a level 2 spell. It was the only way I could stop them from regenerating and getting back up before the combat was finished. 4 Trolls and two Ogres in a level 1-2 area is just plain evil, but I suppose they didn't want people clearing the Slums completely too early then having a free run back from Kudos Well. I believe I was 3 areas deep before I finished all the hand placed encounters in the Slums. I still remember finding that +1 short bow under some creaky floor boards in an old stable too. This game had me so exhausted, so many days in school. I'd play from 7p to 9p almost every night until my mother made me go to bed, then I'd listen to a baseball game on a little radio pretending to be asleep, and as soon as I hear her door shut for the night I was off my top bunk, in front of my desk turning the power/volume knob on my little 11" color TV then flicking the floppy drive and C64 power switch, just to play until 3 or 4am, when my eyes were burning and I kept having to shake my head to stay awake. Yikes I loved that game. So many fantastic memories from an age that we almost all of us had such a great time, but in one of life's crazy jokes had us too young to realize it, never mind really appreciate it. Ahh well, that's what rose colored glasses are for. And of course videos of middle-aged dudes playing 35-year-old games for other middle-aged dudes to watch and recall that nostalgia of youth. Good fun!
Hey guys, I just watched your video here playing/discussing Pool of Radiance and enjoyed it quite a bit. This was a pivotal game for me when I was young. Although a lot of the Gold Box games are similar to one another, I would still like to see you do a discussion walk-though like this for a couple of the other games - maybe start with Gateway to the Savage Frontier since that was released a few years after this one. I don't remember if it had the upgraded SVGA graphics or not though. Anyway, please note that as my Game suggestion for a future show! Thanks!
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit I just did a Azure through Darkness run on a Mac. Radiance I skipped because its 90% in black and white plus no Paladins and Rangers.
@@CaptainRufus Yeah, when we started this I forgot about the lack of those classes. But, that's OK, it keeps Matt on his toes and gave us more to talk about.
17:48 - That's not true. The only game you can't import characters to on the Amiga is Hillsfar, and that's because it came out for the Amiga before Pool of Radiance or Curse of the Azure Bonds had. The only Gold Box games not released for the Amiga was the 2nd Buck Rogers game. You can export from Pool to curse to Blades to Pools of Darkness, absolutely, Krynn series and Savage Frontiers as well. You shouldn't use excuses like that (especially when you're not talking from experience) to dismiss a different version of a game you apparently enjoy. You might like DOS, I like DOS as well, but the Amiga versions are worth playing.
I have played and finished Pool of Radiance on Amiga. This was my first proper FRP and I remember I wasn't impressed by technical side of the game; the graphics were bellow average and there was a lot of loading from floppy disks. But the gameplay was gripping and the sense of fantasy adventure was great. I think these were characteristics of many SSI games from that era.
Agreed. SSI never pushed any technical bounds in graphics and sound. But they delivered a solid experience after solid experience for most/all their games.
@@gyrz19 A lot of narrowing down the field for the graphical comparison. RPG, graphical, tactical, and 1988 or before. They were great for the RPGs that had come before, but they weren't breaking ground amazing us with something unseen.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit Then show me an rpg from 1988 and earlier on the c64 that has better out of combat sprites and in combat tactical sprites. Cause I would love to play it.
@@gyrz19 you don’t just get to compare it to tactical RPGs graphically. If you’re going to say it was great graphically you have to factor in all the games. But even staying in the RPG sub genre Dungeonmaster had some great stuff. Sorcerrian was different but similar side display style. Phantasie III looked great on the amiga. And honestly I prefer some of Ultima 5’s graphics. Especially seeing the spells blast out in cones from the character. The terrain didn’t feel like cardboard walls in battle or just randomly placed stones.
Hey guys, late comment I know but that's because I've been trying to play the game myself. ^_^ I played this on a C64 in high school, so the nostalgia is a lot of fun. My wife's reaction to me "having to do homework" like mapping was great. Like, she knew I was a nerd, but this is a whole new level sort of thing. :D I'm discovering a lot of mechanics I don't think I sussed out in my teens. Like for instance, obviously the arena dueling is intended to give you an option to gain that little bit of exp needed to reach the next level but I found it far too frustrating with "Rolf" being so exactly matched. A 50/50 chance of losing after having to endure minutes of whiffing was unsatisfying. SO, I've discovered how to "cheese" it. ;) If you enter the duel with your armor (or bracers/rings) unequipped, Rolf will not have armor at the start and won't equip armor during the battle. Which means YOU can equip your armor/bracers/rings and have quite an advantage. Obviously it's an oversight that you're able to equip armor during battle, but sometimes I feel like if it's possible, use it mirite? Another potential tip that I just noted for future testing today (so I might be way off here but I'ma share it anyway) is to have your highest Charisma character do all the gem/jewelry appraising. It could have just been a run of good RNG, but I got by-far the highest rolls when I accidentally had my 18 Cha "Cleric of Sune" appraise a few instead of my low-Cha Dwarf F/R. OH, and choose Dwarf for your rogue! As the game tries to stay true to 1st ed. AD&D, there are several "hidden" mechanics that aren't outlined in any of the included documentation (not even the hint book) but you can find in the tabletop Player's Handbook, like the fact Elves have a penalty to Open Locks, while Dwarves have a bonus - and what else do you use rogues for in this game aside from F/R Traps, which Dwarves also get a bonus to! My jury's still deliberating on the merits vs cons of multiclassing your rogue, but for now mine is taking advantage of the fighter's expanded weapon list in order to use a magical short bow from the slums, lol. Rogues *really* didn't have much of a ranged weapon selection in 1e. I'm going to try to document more tips, both cheese and legit, so I'll be back. I hope you plan to play the rest of the series, because I sure do!
"I feel like if it's possible, use it mirite?" This has been my one grace I give myself with old games. If you can do it without loading anything extra or modifying the code, it's legit. It might not be intended, but it's legal. I'm still very pro multiclass rogue. You lose some XP to level up, but I've never found that to be an actual problem when I can grind XP with them in other ways to catch up anyway. Please come back with tips! Love to see them!
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit My current party has a dwarf fighter/thief (my only demihuman, lol), so I'm trying it out. My misgivings are due to how, after he can't level as fighter any longer, I suspect he'll be stuck earning half the hit points a single-class thief would be earning. I may be wrong - I need to refresh my understanding of how 1e handles hit points of multiclassed characters. The upsides I've identified are 1) being allowed exceptional strength, which can make a big difference when you can line up backstabs, and 2) being able to use magical armor/shield/fighter weapons (like bows) when you don't want to worry about backstabs. Semi-downside to that is having to unequip all that again when roaming so he can utilize thief skills. Also, apparently the extra hit point bonus for higher-than-16 Con is single-class fighter exclusive, so that was another disappointment. I created my party with an eye toward dual-classing the two fighters into paladin and ranger. Aside from them and the dwarf, I have two clerics and a magic-user. I dislike having to roll infinitely until I get perfect scores, but I also would not feel satisfied by just modifying my party to all-18s, so I took a hybrid approach. I allowed myself to "arrange as desired" on the rolls, and I could lower only one score per character by 2 to raise one other score by 1. That reduced the required number of rerolls needed to get scores I could be happy with dramatically, and without feeling like I was cheating. I know, I have weird hangups. I'm currently planning to experiment with some of the mechanics I don't recall ever utilizing, like the flasks of oil and holy water. I have a theory that the infamous trolls & ogres encounter in the Rope Guild could have been done with far less frustration if I'd loaded up on oil flasks, and I'm about to head into Valhingen Graveyard, so the holy water may come in handy. I just did the Textile House, and I recall now why these old games put the fear in young me about undead and venomous creatures. Thankfully both of my clerics are max level for PoR already, so they usually were able to turn the ghouls and ghasts. Before Cadorna, in order, I did the Slums, Sokal Keep (without Fireball that final encounter required some creative use of the terrain), Kuto's Well, the Wealthy block, Temple of Bane, Koval Mansion, Mendor's Library, and Podal Plaza. I will be back with more tips and strategy as I work things out. I've been referring to the 1e Player's Handbook a lot to suss out the undocumented mechanics. I really love how these games tried to stay true to the tabletop rules. My love of them is only matched by the Genesis version of Shadowrun, for the same reason.
I've decided to switch my thief's role, so I've rolled an Elf F/M/T to keep in the back lines and use as artillery. I realized that's what I was using my Dwarf for anyway since he was usually too fragile to send in for backstabs, and he'd be much more useful with the Elf bonus with bows plus the use of spells. I'm going to try it out a bit and see how I feel with him.
@@Baarogue Good plan. I didn't do much backstabbing until higher levels. I remember backstabbing many dragons in Secret of the Silver blades with magic weapons for crazy damage. I hadn't thought of oil for the rope guild! I feel silly, and now I want to go back and try that. I might this weekend.
@@theLostSectorsDiscussions Well I'm sold on my Elf F/M/T. Having him has freed up my main MU from having to memorize utility spells like Detect Magic and Knock, and it'll be nice to have another Fireballer on the field once he gets there. I bought him a Fine Composite Long Bow from the silver shop, gave him the Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, and he's murdering everything. Dunno if a lot of people experiment with that bow; it's so expensive I wrote it off at first and forgot about it for a while, but it adds your Str bonus to damage and a portion of your Str bonus to hit, if I'm interpreting these numbers correctly.
While I loved these games literally to death, huge manuals, lots of text to read, many places to explore and monsters to fight, there was only one thing i downright hated: MAPPING-MADNESS! For every step you take draw your square on the grid, mark the buildings, waste tons of graph-paper. It sucked out all the fun of actual playing to track where is what and where is the party right now? At least orientation was aided by compass direction and grid coordinates making it somewhat easy to see how large a map is going to be. While hating to map back in the day you could at least make money with it! Send the completed maps to game mags and receive money, games, or some other reward for all the hard work and time. This was an additional incentive to play the games, map everything out and write a detailed walkthrough in addition to that. 😸
I never thought of sending my maps in to mags, but I LOVED mapping back in the day. It was like creating a journal of your journey you could look back on later. I wouldn't say it's my favorite part, but I have yet to find an auto-mapping solution that scratches the same itch.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit I totally understand that. What I liked best was taking short notices and writing my own story/solution/journal of the adventure. 😻 Drawing squares on paper on the other hand was a menial task at best which was impossible to get around without risking to get completely lost. Ultima Underworld was one of the first games offering an auto-mapping function. It goes without saying that I loved it for that alone! Being able to immediately tell where you are and what special features an area had, such as traps, a body of water, cells, doors etc., allowing to add markers and text, and on top of it letting me print it all out, brilliant! Games like Vail of Darkness, The Summoning, The Ravenloft series, Dark Sun, The Dark Eye series, Might&Magic (more or less), they all got it right. Maybe not perfect in all cases. Those and many more to follow all allowed me to enjoy the game, write a story, and just enjoy the adventure. As far as auto-mapping, this is also why I fell in love with the Book of Eschalon series. Mapping, they turned into a skill, so the better you got the more detailed a map would become. Makes backtracking or visiting a map for the umpteenth time less of a chore and more a chance to complete all details. Early 3D action games, Star Wars, Doom, Witchhaven, Duke Nukem? ... they made it impossible for me to find my way around without getting completely lost. So, yes, there are better and there are worse and some less ideal examples as well. Better than having to do it yourself at least in my humble opinion. 😺
@@yukimori2104 I liked that about the Eschelon games as well. It felt like a good compromise. The new Bard's Tale Remastered does some of the best auto-mapping I've seen, though not skill related. I still think there is a magic to doing it yourself, but if it's not your thing those two games are stand out examples of how to do it right. With the modern internet as well, most people aren't going to map. It's just not going to happen. You google it, and make your way through.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit The Bard's Tale series, yes, indeed! They absolutely nailed it! Nowadays we are blessed with tools that do all the work for us. The All-Seeing Eye, Where are We? and DOSBox GridC (Grid Cartographer) for instance. Where GridC is my favorite. Not free, not necessarily cheap, but absolutely worth it. They are a great middle-ground in that they don't spoil anything like a complete map would. Maybe if there were just the general outlines without any details that would also work. So at least you have the overview and leaves you to mark shops, traps etc. Add.: Also with multi-monitor 2 machine setup it's easy to simply use some tabletop map creation software allowing the same thing. With that there is hardly any work involved and changing/editing if you'd mess up is easy. So graphing should really be a thing of the past!
@@yukimori2104 I'll have to make sure if I ever finish my RPG I have an 'invisiclues' style map system that lets you ease up how much info it gives you.
Can't wait to watch all of this as PoR is kind of my jam but I have to go AND 1998? Am I missing something, or did the game come out in 98? Almost sure it was supposed to be 88 but I love low hanging fruit and, well, that was low hanging fruit! All the same, I can't wait to get back and watch this episode but the store is calling and I need more peanut butter! (And other foods but c'mon PEANUT BUTTER!!!)
You might be thinking of Pool of Radiance: Pools of Myth Drannor which came out in 2001, but that's a whole different thing. And yes... peanut butter is essential. Go. Don't wait.
Let's get down to brass tacks: Crunchy or smooth? Do you like that natural shit you have to stir up every time, or do you like the highly processed but consistent peanut butter? The last time I remember really losing my temper was while attempting to stir a full jar of Kirkland Natural Peanut butter.
The video says "This month we take a bit of a break from our typical game discussion to talk about how to get started playing SSI's 1998 classic "Pool of Radiance"." I think you maybe meant 1988 unless I'm not in on the joke.
Heck, I don't go to Costco all that often and Kirkland is all over that place. I don't know much or anything about their peanut butter but I know that Peter Pan Peanut butter is full of oil that you have to stir up, and no I don't much care for it because it's not the 1940s or 30s or whenever that stuff came on the scene. Honestly it's off brand Safeway peanut butter and it's processed as hell. Also, no I love crunchy, however, my wisdom teeth ended up busting up four of my molars and I've yet to buy a bridge, anyway chunky peanut butter gets lodged in the holes in my gums where my molars used to be so no dice! Snicker bars have peanuts too, just not as much as crunchy peanut butter does... And Snickers and Peanut butter are my favorite, I mean as far as processed food goes... But Steak-ums, I love those though I'm sure that they cause something bad if you eat too many of them. Maybe not like cancer but more like a food born version of Hep-C. Steak-ums, the Pamela Anderson of food products. (Not the guy who gave her Hep-C because he is more like the factory that makes Steak-ums and thusly food born Hep-C.
Na' I was kidding, I even said that I think it should be 88, not 98 but then I got to thinking about the new-ish remake that used (I think?) the 5th version of AD&D but it's okay as I swear that edition was made for video games! Anyway, I think it came out in 03 and it sucked bad, like really bad and I tried to love it but alas it did not come out in 98. (Crap, I did not see the other comments here, sorry J.)
For initial equipment, i think banded mail is OK, chain is acceptable. Plate is kind of better but pricey. I wouldn't pick ring mail. The other tips are: buy (cheap) bows even for your front liners for flexibility. Be sure to take sleep for your mages. A few flaming oils are a good choice. The weapon list is overwhelming. Mages get a bunch of darts. Clerics should get flails. Front liners probably want a shield and longsword. Some of the weapon damage tables changes for Large enemies (more than one square), but I view that as optimization once you've gotten started. I'm also of the view that in the AD&D rules it's worth abusing the stat bonuses. 18 wisdom clerics are just sooo much better than 15 wisdom clerics. 13+ dex for front liners feels necessary to me. When taking notes, why not just record the entry value, as well as the useful info? LIX - Stop kobolds from drinking all the lemonade. That's what I did, though, I did find I lacked the energy to summarize some journal entries. 54 - See book. (random phlan history) ---- For hired NPCs, they cause some money to sort of "not exist", but they also will never give back things that you give to them, including kobold short swords. They will sell them, but for money they keep. There's some weirdness about NPCs depending on save/load where you might get more or less control over them.
I think the most annoying thing is trying to get 1k gold to level up. The game doesnt automatically convert platinum when gold is needed. I also hate that currency counts to ur encumbrance. Sooooo annoying
To clarify, this isn't like the play experience of old D&D. You're saying you get the same sense of feel from it, which I agree with, and also get that sense. But in old tabletop D&D you did not fight 30 kobolds over and over in 30+ minute encounters on grids. Combats weren't like this at all, and weren't long, and there was a lot more space for imagination. You're just imagining the experiences are more similar than they really are. In your game you had someone putting someone else in their backpack, making up your own fun. Here you're ensuring you've seen everything in 16x16 grid. But to the extent a book can be a like a movie, this is a pretty honest interpretation of D&D adventures for the computer experience. And that's more about the adventure design than the system. And it's great.
I would be careful telling people what they're only imagining. Unless you're real name is Philip Plencner, you don't have a good sense of most of my earliest D&D games. This is very, very close to my experience with D&D back in the day. Reiterating from the video: Every table is different. B2-Keep on the Borderlands A-10 has 40 kobold combatants. It's also the module I start 90% of my campaigns with. The chapel near the end of the caves has 20 skeletons and 20 zombies in one room. That module also encourages you to treat encounters as noisy with the chance of drawing more enemies when you fight, possibly upping the total fought in one combat. A dungeon area is more of a battle map, then a series of room v room. But Pool of Radiance doesn't do every encounter as 40 kobolds either. It has some big battles, and some tough battles and some wandering battles.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit Yes, every table is different. Keep on the Borderlands does not support a play experience like this. Entering into the large combats without exercising a freedom to create advantages will result in many dead characters without a reload option. Simply tracking all the monster turns manually is a chore. As referenced by Gygax's notes, charging headlong into giant fights is expected to draw more enemies, which combined with level 1 characters results in an expected total wipe. In the Slums alone, the size of essentially all random encounters is substantially larger than the size of random encounters in any published module. Typical values are things like 2d4 kobolds, 1d6 goblins, not 10 or 14. This is tied to the idea of save/load not being available and fully recovering after every combat being rare. Keep on the Borderlands, for example, was published for Moldvay basic where clerics got 0 healing spells at level 1, let alone the 4 you can get here, combined withthe mechanics of easily walking out to a full heal after every fight. Yes, the game definitely offers a good variety in smaller and larger scale combats, but fundamentally the play experience is vastly different. Running an encounter like the one in the Sokal Keep ambush tactically without computer assist is just awful. I've designed lots of adventures and play-tested a wide variety of large-scale combats for an *unusual* experience to give players, and invariably you find you have to make alternate rules. And there are great examples of that contemporary to this game, like the second half of Queen's Harvest, or the opening segment of Dark Night's Terror. They show that the employees at TSR came to the same conclusion. Similarly, in tabletop you get to do what you want to do, and that might include killing all the kobolds, but it also includes a lot of freeform ideas, goofing around, telling stupid jokes, doing interesting things with what you find. This game can suggest some of the richness of options, but that's all it can do. To consider that this is the same feel as actual tabletop requires a leap of imagination.
@@jsrodman I feel like there's no point in having this conversation since you're literally telling me how I played D&D. Since you know what I did better than me, I think we're done here.
@@jsrodman Would you say that games like Rogue or Moria/Angband is a more accurate representation of how D&D game would go down? Even though these games you only control a single character, no party members. But in terms of mechanics and the overall "feeling", I mean. (observation: I'm quoting these games without using graphical tilesets, only ASCII)
The old SSI D&D games will always have a special place in my heart. The entire Krynn series, Azure bonds, even the weird Buck Rogers games. I loved them all, even as janky as they were. At the time they were just amazing. I think Pools was possibly one of the first CRPGS I was completely obsessed with. When my fighter learned to sweep... Damn! Not to mention dropping a fireball on a bunch of kobolds. So satisfying.
One of the greatest bugs in the game IS that troll battle; I had a halfling fighter/thief who was knocked down by the trolls, and after winning that battle (barely) he was infected by the trolls, and would regenerate in battles. It was amazing cos he was pretty spongy. Had that regen ability for the rest of the game. Saved me a few times.
If anyone is interested I've been working on a modern remake of the goldbox games called goldchest for modern hardware. 3d graphics etc...
"Speak my name 'OHLO'" - Another great blast from the past! Gotta come back for the trolls, though. Revolutionary representation of D&D for its time, and a great precedent for games to come.
It really upped the tactical with the puzzle solving in a great balance between the two that still felt true to the narrative. It's hard to believe they pushed out so many of these, but I love them all.
BTW, I always found it weird that the "Old Rope Guild" was a maze. First, what's an old rope guild? If it's literally a section of town where ropes were produced (is that a thing?), what benefit would having it be a maze be? But it's quite clever if the game designers thought that the area was "tangled like a rope". Those ruins were actually once the city of Phlan, so that area should have actually been part of a city. Wouldn't it have been cool if they had extended the storyline to retake Phlan, settle it, defend it, expand it, etc.? Anyhow, love your revisit of old games like this.
@@falloutfan2502 Glad you're enjoying our trip down Nostalgia Lane. Yeah, it struck me as odd that a place people supposedly lived and worked was hard to navigate. But it is ruins now, so I presume people who want to hide might have made it that way, but it's my own reading into things... I have zero proof of any of that.
Watching this got me thinking about the dragon lance series, so I started playing ‘champions of krynn’ on my new theC64. I love it! There are many similarities to this forgotten realms series, but some differences. It’s not as difficult, and you don’t have to pay to level up.
You can tell they learned things each iteration of the gold box, getting better and better from a player experience stand point each version and adding more and more of the 2e rules. I think I liked the DL series better, especially exploring the overworld maps, but I don't have one of them that I don't like.
One of the most unique RPG's I played is Ravenloft Stone Prophet, the game doesn't force you to level up at all, there's no grinding, you only engage in combat if you want or really need the Exp points. I usually prefer games where enemies, levels and items have some kind of randomization about them, but this game really nailed it in terms of predetermined design. Melee is scuffed though, bugged code :(
Holy cow. There's a game I haven't thought about in a long time. I missed it when it was new, I'll have to go back and give it a look.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit Just make sure to have Dosbox running in a fixed amount of cycles, recalling from memory this game would be 16.000 cycles, or 14.000, no more than 16. That's because if the CPU goes too fast it means that the enemies will have a speed advantage on combat (the game is real-time not turn-based) Also, max CPU speed will cause your characters to run out of water too fast, since that's also time-based. The game was not designed to run 30 FPS. If you see the game running "smooth" in terms of framerate it means that it is already too fast. Wish the GOG releases would pay more attention to that.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit I don't like Dosbox' newer updates, they switched to using config files (.Conf) inside the C:\Users directory, instead of using the app folder like it used to be.
What I really wish is that someone would update the game and entire series to Pools of Darkness graphics and gameplay.
Pool of Radiance was my "gateway drug" to D&D. My 13 year old brain was blown away on this game. So many hours sunk into this game and it's sequels.
I never thought about the auto map that way, that's a good point... I used to play the Diablo games by pressing TAB and just following the auto map until I had to kill something so at times I do think the auto map can delude the games they are in. Chris's keyboard looks like an old type writer and I only really know about them because my mother used to own one of the old ones, won it and a lot of bikes and a saddle, I think, from an auction. But, yeah the ink ribbons had been impossible to find for us... Due to the age of the beast, though I'm sure now that the internet is a big thing ("Now" lol) you can find them as someone who is really into old typewriters has for sure made a small business out of selling ink ribbons for antique typewriters.
When I first got the game way back in the day (The C64 one, the Nintendo one came when I was a teenager, and my Rubbermaid full of Gold-Box games does not count because those were not for playing but for selling, and yes that kind of hurts to think about) Back on point! When I first started playing it I always thought that resting in a dungeon was like cheating... And I liked it!
I liked how Pool of radiance starts you out with nodda and nothing but a little bit of gold. I mean you guys are adventures who showed up to... Let's face it, make money so you had to have come into it pretty broke and maybe even a little desperate. Honestly though, if you come into the game all decked out than you are not in a position of needing to "Adventure" for your gold, right? And if you had come into it as a fully trained, or even semi trained killer and not just a fighter who has learned to use a sword or knock a bow or even cast a little magic you would not be there struggling to not die and hopefully get at least a little gold. You did come to clear out part of Phlan so it sure seems like you guys are there for the money.
That's way cool by the way! A haggard band of adventures showing up dressed in scant armor and all the gold they could save up to buy a few weapons to use after catching a boat. Would have gotten supplies to bring with them on the ship but they did not like the idea of putting their only gear into a chest that could easily be pilfered, and besides Phlan is a city over run with monsters so of course they have more than a few places to buy gear at and they can use their dwindling pile of coins to arm themselves and hope for the best. See? That's kind of like RP, right?
So, you guys did not make it to the harbor? That one is a fun part of the game, I loved the skeletons! Not counting Dragons and the little blue slimes from my favorite Japanese console game, Skeletons are the coolest. Mindless thralls all with a singular goal, and that goal is to kill you all... And also other people, not just you, you're not special to skeletons! (Skeleton logic!) I also think I killed the trolls with a couple of sleep spells or no! I think it was paralyze or whatever it is the priest casts to subdue monsters. Important to know that Skeletons don't sleep. (Skeleton logic!)
I'm just really happy to see this game being played, it's all happy memories because even when the game pissed me off, I still loved the game and that love made all the cheap party wipes done by skeletons and all the things that fought you at the first few levels. I love Snickers but hate sheet cake so as tickled as I am at the idea, I think I'm going to have to pass on the party... Make the party for 363.
Ha! You guys are going to be playing Diablo because it's 20 years old now. I think I have it still, I have an old Beta of Diablo that I got trashing a house out years ago. This was one of the times I wish I had gotten there first because the other guys on the crew did not know video games so I swear they threw the boxes away. I had a copy of Dagger fall, still have the copy and judging by the collection the guy who owned it for sure had the boxes. Off note, the guy used to work at Kalypso but also tested games, that's why I have a beta of Diablo. Those are more games I had to sell off, mainly in a box pile, or all the games in a box because none of them had their boxes... I even had an Ever quest disk with a 989 studios logo on it, and that's crazy when you think about it!
Neat! I made this too long too as I always do! The video was good, and it brought me back to an early time to see this played again... Thanks!
(Guys your views love this channel, if you wanted to open a Patreon account I would not be against it.)
((But also, I have no idea what makes my beta of Diablo different but I think this beta was more about stability because I think anything else would have been an Alpha and I sure don't own one of them.))
The beta is actually pretty rare right now I think. It was part of Microsoft's desire to push their DirectX (I think? I know there was a version before that, and it might be that) to help them show off the game. It's 1 character, and there's some other differences. If you have it, hang on to it! ... or send it to me.
I had no idea it was that rare, I gave a way a bunch of old Madden games for the computer, I even had a beta copy maybe two of Madden 98 and an NHL game and Madden 99 and 04.
Sadly as it goes, I was going to see if you wanted the Beta as for the same reason I have the Madden ones away is that you're not allowed to sell them. Anyway, I think I gave the copy to my buddy Josh and I kept a ripped copy of Diablo on an Electronic arts disk.
I gave him a lot of the games from the collection I ended up with, I should see if he still has it as I'm sure he would be tickled by the idea of selling it for a few bucks... If it can be sold that is, I don't know if Diablo is old enough for selling the Beta to not matter any longer. I know it has been over 20 years no, however, Activision/Blizzard may be the kind to hold on to their properties so I will see what can be done with it, if Josh still has it.
@@galloe8933 You can ALWAYS sell your disk. Or give it away. When you buy it, you buy the rights to the physical good. It's yours now. It's part of my issue with Steam and streaming games. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
The not for resale is meant strictly so that software Etc can't bust open a bunch of demos and sell them separately. It wouldn't be illegal, but it would mean that they'd get hammered for not listening to the place that gave them the disks.
As for value, keep an eye on this: www.ebay.com/itm/PC-Gamer-Disc-2-10-November-1996-Diablo-Demo-And-More/163672331728?hash=item261ba195d0:g:k0cAAOSwz1Rcv96s I feel like it'll go higher, but not sure where it'll end.
I'd obviously love any collectible like that. I'm trying to build a reasonable collection here, but some things are hard to find, or over priced on ebay, and there isn't a lot of flea markets near me to go scavenging for old stuff.
This is a 5 out of 5 as far as pool-based videogames go
Pool of Radiance is one of the first games I played on C64 back in the day. It is my go to game, It is the game that forced me to learn english reading the journal entries word for word with a crappy english dictionary.
I still remember the first time I figured out how the code wheel worked (just plain luck that the same combo that was in the manual came up in game) and how many times I had to fight the main battle in Sokal keep before I finally managed to survive. I can still feel the smell of the room I sat in playing it.
This game is THE game from my childhood... which just happens to be the game my brother bought and HATED.
There are a number of exploits in the game, some of them are easier to figure out than others. A crappy one I saw was to create a bunch of temp characters that you then funnel the money to one guy... Considering how little you get while creating the characters this is a horribly bad idea. The better way is to use the casino. There is a bug there that allows you to come back as the winner overall, whithout having to save and load the game all the time. This works with the DOS version and most likely in the amiga and C64 versions as well.
Unlimited cash
1. Go to bar to gamble
2. Listen to the dribble
3. Pay X Platinum
If Green - Stop playing
If Blue - Keep on playing
If Red - Keep on playing offer 0 Platinum, get rejected and suddenly the money you just lost is back in your inventory
4.Repeat
Unlimited XP
1. Hire a mercenary from the training hall
2. Remove the mercenary armor
3. Give all the money to the mercenary
4. Go pick a fight
5. Kill the mercenary at the end of the fight
6. Get lots and lots of XP
7.Repeat
Those old AD&D rules.
They're kind of a mess, but in a charming way.
I still love this game. As for the Troll fight, I remember being so happy when I was finally down to one troll. I won. I finally won. Then there were two. Then three. Then I was reloading. I haven't replayed it since a year or so after the first Baldur's Gate released. I had to use some MOSLO program to slow my P3 down 900% and it was still to fast to read the text in battle. Didn't matter, I still had a blast, and it was *_easier_* than I recalled it being? Probably because I was aware of the illusory door in the second to last combat area which I wasn't when I first played through it in 7th grade, going back to town thinking I would get a grand reward. Not getting one, going back, having to re-clear the castle, bumping into every wall in every room in the entirety of the last two areas because I had no clue what room I had fought the person claiming to be Tyranthraxus. What a nightmare for a little kid.
Oh, when I finally did kill the Trolls I had to have been level 3 because I was able to use Acid Arrow which is a level 2 spell. It was the only way I could stop them from regenerating and getting back up before the combat was finished. 4 Trolls and two Ogres in a level 1-2 area is just plain evil, but I suppose they didn't want people clearing the Slums completely too early then having a free run back from Kudos Well. I believe I was 3 areas deep before I finished all the hand placed encounters in the Slums. I still remember finding that +1 short bow under some creaky floor boards in an old stable too. This game had me so exhausted, so many days in school. I'd play from 7p to 9p almost every night until my mother made me go to bed, then I'd listen to a baseball game on a little radio pretending to be asleep, and as soon as I hear her door shut for the night I was off my top bunk, in front of my desk turning the power/volume knob on my little 11" color TV then flicking the floppy drive and C64 power switch, just to play until 3 or 4am, when my eyes were burning and I kept having to shake my head to stay awake. Yikes I loved that game. So many fantastic memories from an age that we almost all of us had such a great time, but in one of life's crazy jokes had us too young to realize it, never mind really appreciate it.
Ahh well, that's what rose colored glasses are for. And of course videos of middle-aged dudes playing 35-year-old games for other middle-aged dudes to watch and recall that nostalgia of youth. Good fun!
Hey guys, I just watched your video here playing/discussing Pool of Radiance and enjoyed it quite a bit. This was a pivotal game for me when I was young. Although a lot of the Gold Box games are similar to one another, I would still like to see you do a discussion walk-though like this for a couple of the other games - maybe start with Gateway to the Savage Frontier since that was released a few years after this one. I don't remember if it had the upgraded SVGA graphics or not though. Anyway, please note that as my Game suggestion for a future show! Thanks!
Loved these games. So close to baremetal pen and paper D&D.
You can go all the way through in the Amiga and Mac as well.
Really? That's fantastic news. I may have to switch it up here.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit I just did a Azure through Darkness run on a Mac. Radiance I skipped because its 90% in black and white plus no Paladins and Rangers.
@@CaptainRufus Yeah, when we started this I forgot about the lack of those classes. But, that's OK, it keeps Matt on his toes and gave us more to talk about.
17:48 - That's not true. The only game you can't import characters to on the Amiga is Hillsfar, and that's because it came out for the Amiga before Pool of Radiance or Curse of the Azure Bonds had. The only Gold Box games not released for the Amiga was the 2nd Buck Rogers game. You can export from Pool to curse to Blades to Pools of Darkness, absolutely, Krynn series and Savage Frontiers as well. You shouldn't use excuses like that (especially when you're not talking from experience) to dismiss a different version of a game you apparently enjoy. You might like DOS, I like DOS as well, but the Amiga versions are worth playing.
I’m just starting the episode and heard about the subreddit - cool! what is the address? I tried a google search but couldn’t find it.
Here you go: www.reddit.com/r/thelostsectors
I would totally buy a request! especially if it would help you with equipment upgrades
You can grind a bit in the last castle for fire or hill giants
I have played and finished Pool of Radiance on Amiga. This was my first proper FRP and I remember I wasn't impressed by technical side of the game; the graphics were bellow average and there was a lot of loading from floppy disks. But the gameplay was gripping and the sense of fantasy adventure was great. I think these were characteristics of many SSI games from that era.
Agreed. SSI never pushed any technical bounds in graphics and sound. But they delivered a solid experience after solid experience for most/all their games.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit cant agree with. How many rpg's from 1988 and prior that had a more graphical tactical combat.
@@gyrz19 A lot of narrowing down the field for the graphical comparison. RPG, graphical, tactical, and 1988 or before. They were great for the RPGs that had come before, but they weren't breaking ground amazing us with something unseen.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit Then show me an rpg from 1988 and earlier on the c64 that has better out of combat sprites and in combat tactical sprites. Cause I would love to play it.
@@gyrz19 you don’t just get to compare it to tactical RPGs graphically. If you’re going to say it was great graphically you have to factor in all the games.
But even staying in the RPG sub genre Dungeonmaster had some great stuff. Sorcerrian was different but similar side display style. Phantasie III looked great on the amiga.
And honestly I prefer some of Ultima 5’s graphics. Especially seeing the spells blast out in cones from the character. The terrain didn’t feel like cardboard walls in battle or just randomly placed stones.
Hey guys, late comment I know but that's because I've been trying to play the game myself. ^_^ I played this on a C64 in high school, so the nostalgia is a lot of fun. My wife's reaction to me "having to do homework" like mapping was great. Like, she knew I was a nerd, but this is a whole new level sort of thing. :D
I'm discovering a lot of mechanics I don't think I sussed out in my teens. Like for instance, obviously the arena dueling is intended to give you an option to gain that little bit of exp needed to reach the next level but I found it far too frustrating with "Rolf" being so exactly matched. A 50/50 chance of losing after having to endure minutes of whiffing was unsatisfying. SO, I've discovered how to "cheese" it. ;) If you enter the duel with your armor (or bracers/rings) unequipped, Rolf will not have armor at the start and won't equip armor during the battle. Which means YOU can equip your armor/bracers/rings and have quite an advantage. Obviously it's an oversight that you're able to equip armor during battle, but sometimes I feel like if it's possible, use it mirite?
Another potential tip that I just noted for future testing today (so I might be way off here but I'ma share it anyway) is to have your highest Charisma character do all the gem/jewelry appraising. It could have just been a run of good RNG, but I got by-far the highest rolls when I accidentally had my 18 Cha "Cleric of Sune" appraise a few instead of my low-Cha Dwarf F/R.
OH, and choose Dwarf for your rogue! As the game tries to stay true to 1st ed. AD&D, there are several "hidden" mechanics that aren't outlined in any of the included documentation (not even the hint book) but you can find in the tabletop Player's Handbook, like the fact Elves have a penalty to Open Locks, while Dwarves have a bonus - and what else do you use rogues for in this game aside from F/R Traps, which Dwarves also get a bonus to! My jury's still deliberating on the merits vs cons of multiclassing your rogue, but for now mine is taking advantage of the fighter's expanded weapon list in order to use a magical short bow from the slums, lol. Rogues *really* didn't have much of a ranged weapon selection in 1e.
I'm going to try to document more tips, both cheese and legit, so I'll be back. I hope you plan to play the rest of the series, because I sure do!
"I feel like if it's possible, use it mirite?"
This has been my one grace I give myself with old games. If you can do it without loading anything extra or modifying the code, it's legit. It might not be intended, but it's legal.
I'm still very pro multiclass rogue. You lose some XP to level up, but I've never found that to be an actual problem when I can grind XP with them in other ways to catch up anyway.
Please come back with tips! Love to see them!
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit My current party has a dwarf fighter/thief (my only demihuman, lol), so I'm trying it out. My misgivings are due to how, after he can't level as fighter any longer, I suspect he'll be stuck earning half the hit points a single-class thief would be earning. I may be wrong - I need to refresh my understanding of how 1e handles hit points of multiclassed characters. The upsides I've identified are 1) being allowed exceptional strength, which can make a big difference when you can line up backstabs, and 2) being able to use magical armor/shield/fighter weapons (like bows) when you don't want to worry about backstabs. Semi-downside to that is having to unequip all that again when roaming so he can utilize thief skills. Also, apparently the extra hit point bonus for higher-than-16 Con is single-class fighter exclusive, so that was another disappointment.
I created my party with an eye toward dual-classing the two fighters into paladin and ranger. Aside from them and the dwarf, I have two clerics and a magic-user. I dislike having to roll infinitely until I get perfect scores, but I also would not feel satisfied by just modifying my party to all-18s, so I took a hybrid approach. I allowed myself to "arrange as desired" on the rolls, and I could lower only one score per character by 2 to raise one other score by 1. That reduced the required number of rerolls needed to get scores I could be happy with dramatically, and without feeling like I was cheating. I know, I have weird hangups.
I'm currently planning to experiment with some of the mechanics I don't recall ever utilizing, like the flasks of oil and holy water. I have a theory that the infamous trolls & ogres encounter in the Rope Guild could have been done with far less frustration if I'd loaded up on oil flasks, and I'm about to head into Valhingen Graveyard, so the holy water may come in handy. I just did the Textile House, and I recall now why these old games put the fear in young me about undead and venomous creatures. Thankfully both of my clerics are max level for PoR already, so they usually were able to turn the ghouls and ghasts. Before Cadorna, in order, I did the Slums, Sokal Keep (without Fireball that final encounter required some creative use of the terrain), Kuto's Well, the Wealthy block, Temple of Bane, Koval Mansion, Mendor's Library, and Podal Plaza.
I will be back with more tips and strategy as I work things out. I've been referring to the 1e Player's Handbook a lot to suss out the undocumented mechanics. I really love how these games tried to stay true to the tabletop rules. My love of them is only matched by the Genesis version of Shadowrun, for the same reason.
I've decided to switch my thief's role, so I've rolled an Elf F/M/T to keep in the back lines and use as artillery. I realized that's what I was using my Dwarf for anyway since he was usually too fragile to send in for backstabs, and he'd be much more useful with the Elf bonus with bows plus the use of spells. I'm going to try it out a bit and see how I feel with him.
@@Baarogue Good plan. I didn't do much backstabbing until higher levels. I remember backstabbing many dragons in Secret of the Silver blades with magic weapons for crazy damage.
I hadn't thought of oil for the rope guild! I feel silly, and now I want to go back and try that. I might this weekend.
@@theLostSectorsDiscussions Well I'm sold on my Elf F/M/T. Having him has freed up my main MU from having to memorize utility spells like Detect Magic and Knock, and it'll be nice to have another Fireballer on the field once he gets there. I bought him a Fine Composite Long Bow from the silver shop, gave him the Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, and he's murdering everything. Dunno if a lot of people experiment with that bow; it's so expensive I wrote it off at first and forgot about it for a while, but it adds your Str bonus to damage and a portion of your Str bonus to hit, if I'm interpreting these numbers correctly.
While I loved these games literally to death, huge manuals, lots of text to read, many places to explore and monsters to fight, there was only one thing i downright hated: MAPPING-MADNESS! For every step you take draw your square on the grid, mark the buildings, waste tons of graph-paper. It sucked out all the fun of actual playing to track where is what and where is the party right now? At least orientation was aided by compass direction and grid coordinates making it somewhat easy to see how large a map is going to be.
While hating to map back in the day you could at least make money with it! Send the completed maps to game mags and receive money, games, or some other reward for all the hard work and time. This was an additional incentive to play the games, map everything out and write a detailed walkthrough in addition to that. 😸
I never thought of sending my maps in to mags, but I LOVED mapping back in the day. It was like creating a journal of your journey you could look back on later. I wouldn't say it's my favorite part, but I have yet to find an auto-mapping solution that scratches the same itch.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit I totally understand that. What I liked best was taking short notices and writing my own story/solution/journal of the adventure. 😻
Drawing squares on paper on the other hand was a menial task at best which was impossible to get around without risking to get completely lost.
Ultima Underworld was one of the first games offering an auto-mapping function. It goes without saying that I loved it for that alone! Being able to immediately tell where you are and what special features an area had, such as traps, a body of water, cells, doors etc., allowing to add markers and text, and on top of it letting me print it all out, brilliant!
Games like Vail of Darkness, The Summoning, The Ravenloft series, Dark Sun, The Dark Eye series, Might&Magic (more or less), they all got it right. Maybe not perfect in all cases. Those and many more to follow all allowed me to enjoy the game, write a story, and just enjoy the adventure.
As far as auto-mapping, this is also why I fell in love with the Book of Eschalon series. Mapping, they turned into a skill, so the better you got the more detailed a map would become. Makes backtracking or visiting a map for the umpteenth time less of a chore and more a chance to complete all details.
Early 3D action games, Star Wars, Doom, Witchhaven, Duke Nukem? ... they made it impossible for me to find my way around without getting completely lost. So, yes, there are better and there are worse and some less ideal examples as well. Better than having to do it yourself at least in my humble opinion. 😺
@@yukimori2104 I liked that about the Eschelon games as well. It felt like a good compromise. The new Bard's Tale Remastered does some of the best auto-mapping I've seen, though not skill related. I still think there is a magic to doing it yourself, but if it's not your thing those two games are stand out examples of how to do it right.
With the modern internet as well, most people aren't going to map. It's just not going to happen. You google it, and make your way through.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit The Bard's Tale series, yes, indeed! They absolutely nailed it!
Nowadays we are blessed with tools that do all the work for us. The All-Seeing Eye, Where are We? and DOSBox GridC (Grid Cartographer) for instance. Where GridC is my favorite. Not free, not necessarily cheap, but absolutely worth it.
They are a great middle-ground in that they don't spoil anything like a complete map would. Maybe if there were just the general outlines without any details that would also work. So at least you have the overview and leaves you to mark shops, traps etc.
Add.: Also with multi-monitor 2 machine setup it's easy to simply use some tabletop map creation software allowing the same thing. With that there is hardly any work involved and changing/editing if you'd mess up is easy. So graphing should really be a thing of the past!
@@yukimori2104 I'll have to make sure if I ever finish my RPG I have an 'invisiclues' style map system that lets you ease up how much info it gives you.
Reference absence of music, I always enjoy listening to the opening music for Pool of Radiance on the Amiga.
Can't wait to watch all of this as PoR is kind of my jam but I have to go AND 1998? Am I missing something, or did the game come out in 98? Almost sure it was supposed to be 88 but I love low hanging fruit and, well, that was low hanging fruit! All the same, I can't wait to get back and watch this episode but the store is calling and I need more peanut butter! (And other foods but c'mon PEANUT BUTTER!!!)
You might be thinking of Pool of Radiance: Pools of Myth Drannor which came out in 2001, but that's a whole different thing.
And yes... peanut butter is essential. Go. Don't wait.
Let's get down to brass tacks: Crunchy or smooth? Do you like that natural shit you have to stir up every time, or do you like the highly processed but consistent peanut butter? The last time I remember really losing my temper was while attempting to stir a full jar of Kirkland Natural Peanut butter.
The video says "This month we take a bit of a break from our typical game discussion to talk about how to get started playing SSI's 1998 classic "Pool of Radiance"." I think you maybe meant 1988 unless I'm not in on the joke.
Heck, I don't go to Costco all that often and Kirkland is all over that place. I don't know much or anything about their peanut butter but I know that Peter Pan Peanut butter is full of oil that you have to stir up, and no I don't much care for it because it's not the 1940s or 30s or whenever that stuff came on the scene.
Honestly it's off brand Safeway peanut butter and it's processed as hell. Also, no I love crunchy, however, my wisdom teeth ended up busting up four of my molars and I've yet to buy a bridge, anyway chunky peanut butter gets lodged in the holes in my gums where my molars used to be so no dice!
Snicker bars have peanuts too, just not as much as crunchy peanut butter does... And Snickers and Peanut butter are my favorite, I mean as far as processed food goes... But Steak-ums, I love those though I'm sure that they cause something bad if you eat too many of them. Maybe not like cancer but more like a food born version of Hep-C.
Steak-ums, the Pamela Anderson of food products. (Not the guy who gave her Hep-C because he is more like the factory that makes Steak-ums and thusly food born Hep-C.
Na' I was kidding, I even said that I think it should be 88, not 98 but then I got to thinking about the new-ish remake that used (I think?) the 5th version of AD&D but it's okay as I swear that edition was made for video games! Anyway, I think it came out in 03 and it sucked bad, like really bad and I tried to love it but alas it did not come out in 98.
(Crap, I did not see the other comments here, sorry J.)
For initial equipment, i think banded mail is OK, chain is acceptable. Plate is kind of better but pricey. I wouldn't pick ring mail.
The other tips are: buy (cheap) bows even for your front liners for flexibility. Be sure to take sleep for your mages. A few flaming oils are a good choice.
The weapon list is overwhelming. Mages get a bunch of darts. Clerics should get flails. Front liners probably want a shield and longsword. Some of the weapon damage tables changes for Large enemies (more than one square), but I view that as optimization once you've gotten started.
I'm also of the view that in the AD&D rules it's worth abusing the stat bonuses. 18 wisdom clerics are just sooo much better than 15 wisdom clerics. 13+ dex for front liners feels necessary to me.
When taking notes, why not just record the entry value, as well as the useful info?
LIX - Stop kobolds from drinking all the lemonade.
That's what I did, though, I did find I lacked the energy to summarize some journal entries.
54 - See book. (random phlan history)
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For hired NPCs, they cause some money to sort of "not exist", but they also will never give back things that you give to them, including kobold short swords. They will sell them, but for money they keep. There's some weirdness about NPCs depending on save/load where you might get more or less control over them.
I think the most annoying thing is trying to get 1k gold to level up.
The game doesnt automatically convert platinum when gold is needed. I also hate that currency counts to ur encumbrance. Sooooo annoying
Ad&d is such a good game a great upgrade ti the ikd d&d. The new d&d systen is just awful.
To clarify, this isn't like the play experience of old D&D. You're saying you get the same sense of feel from it, which I agree with, and also get that sense. But in old tabletop D&D you did not fight 30 kobolds over and over in 30+ minute encounters on grids. Combats weren't like this at all, and weren't long, and there was a lot more space for imagination.
You're just imagining the experiences are more similar than they really are. In your game you had someone putting someone else in their backpack, making up your own fun. Here you're ensuring you've seen everything in 16x16 grid.
But to the extent a book can be a like a movie, this is a pretty honest interpretation of D&D adventures for the computer experience. And that's more about the adventure design than the system. And it's great.
I would be careful telling people what they're only imagining. Unless you're real name is Philip Plencner, you don't have a good sense of most of my earliest D&D games. This is very, very close to my experience with D&D back in the day. Reiterating from the video: Every table is different.
B2-Keep on the Borderlands A-10 has 40 kobold combatants. It's also the module I start 90% of my campaigns with. The chapel near the end of the caves has 20 skeletons and 20 zombies in one room.
That module also encourages you to treat encounters as noisy with the chance of drawing more enemies when you fight, possibly upping the total fought in one combat. A dungeon area is more of a battle map, then a series of room v room.
But Pool of Radiance doesn't do every encounter as 40 kobolds either. It has some big battles, and some tough battles and some wandering battles.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit Yes, every table is different.
Keep on the Borderlands does not support a play experience like this. Entering into the large combats without exercising a freedom to create advantages will result in many dead characters without a reload option. Simply tracking all the monster turns manually is a chore. As referenced by Gygax's notes, charging headlong into giant fights is expected to draw more enemies, which combined with level 1 characters results in an expected total wipe.
In the Slums alone, the size of essentially all random encounters is substantially larger than the size of random encounters in any published module. Typical values are things like 2d4 kobolds, 1d6 goblins, not 10 or 14. This is tied to the idea of save/load not being available and fully recovering after every combat being rare. Keep on the Borderlands, for example, was published for Moldvay basic where clerics got 0 healing spells at level 1, let alone the 4 you can get here, combined withthe mechanics of easily walking out to a full heal after every fight.
Yes, the game definitely offers a good variety in smaller and larger scale combats, but fundamentally the play experience is vastly different. Running an encounter like the one in the Sokal Keep ambush tactically without computer assist is just awful. I've designed lots of adventures and play-tested a wide variety of large-scale combats for an *unusual* experience to give players, and invariably you find you have to make alternate rules. And there are great examples of that contemporary to this game, like the second half of Queen's Harvest, or the opening segment of Dark Night's Terror. They show that the employees at TSR came to the same conclusion.
Similarly, in tabletop you get to do what you want to do, and that might include killing all the kobolds, but it also includes a lot of freeform ideas, goofing around, telling stupid jokes, doing interesting things with what you find. This game can suggest some of the richness of options, but that's all it can do. To consider that this is the same feel as actual tabletop requires a leap of imagination.
@@jsrodman I feel like there's no point in having this conversation since you're literally telling me how I played D&D. Since you know what I did better than me, I think we're done here.
@@jsrodman Would you say that games like Rogue or Moria/Angband is a more accurate representation of how D&D game would go down? Even though these games you only control a single character, no party members. But in terms of mechanics and the overall "feeling", I mean. (observation: I'm quoting these games without using graphical tilesets, only ASCII)
I enjoy the touch of a gentle woman