MM2 on the Apple IIe was everything for me. The hours and hours and hours you could spend in that game kept me absorbed and hooked. Then when the hintbook came out and revealed soooo much more in the game that I never knew about and inspired me to try and find that Megadragon... Still remember my character party: Thrud the Barbarian, Flower the Knight, Hosoi the Ninja, Robetta the Robber, Clerica the Cleric, Sorcerer the Sorcerer, with the hirelings Cleogotcha the Archer, and Big Bootay the Cleric. Good times
That was a fun video. Might and Magic 1 and the Pool of Radiance are the two RPGs I have the fondest memories of when thinking back to the Commodore 64 days.
I started with MM3. I broke two keyboards. I didn't have a proper desk; I had to keep the keyboard on my lap. And twice, in the first town, the same green monster cast purple diamonds at me at the exact moment I turned left. Twice it startled me so hard I dropped my keyboard. Once I could snap it back, but the other time it just died. No other jump scare ever cost me that much since then (I was a kid with a tiny allowance and keyboards were really expensive).
One of my top 5 RPGs from my Commodore childhood for sure. Loved this one, and it brought back great memories. I also really loved the box and map art at the time. Really got my imagination going. And that ending! ha Always loved M&MB1 but never played another one for some reason.
I remember drooling over it in Commodore Magazine ads for a long time before I got it. Was so happy when I finally brought it home after a long trip only to then have to copy a character disk before I could play and had to go to bed without even getting into the town as I ran out of time.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit I had the same experience with Bards Tale and similar games. I honestly loved Telengard. Ever play that D&D like c64 game? It’s kind of history. That game and Questron was easy and fun.
@@4kdemoscene I have. I like those fun simple dungeon crawls sometime. Just go in, loot and scoot through the whole thing relaxing and having a good time. For some reason asking me that reminded me I need to try Gemstone Warrior again too. I took a quick look at that once, but never kept going.
I've been asking for the M&M series since I joined the channel and I feel like you've really delivered here. I am one of those with a fond memory of the Xeen games but you're right about starting from the first one. It was seminal in a lot of ways and any discussion of this era of computer gaming that doesn't touch on M&M feels lacking to me. Xeen, the Heroes of M&M series, the later M&M games (6+) all had their pluses and minuses, but this was the beginning of that I feel. It was D&D without being D&D. It's interesting, too, that many of the things that were a problem with this game were fixed in later games (and you'll probably discuss these when you get to those). By M&M 3/4 there are spells which will reveal secret walls. A lot more of the world is animated. There is a legitimate difference between underground and above ground environments. Casting menus are built into the game. The map can simply be turned on or off (or filled in automatically by a spell). Lots of improvements as the game series developed.
It's one we've both wanted to do since the early days of the channel. One of the first games on our list. Navigating the length of RPGs for the channel without burning out on them has made it take WAY to long to get here.
It's a real shame for it. I think it had some great ideas, but just couldn't bring the price point or games behind it to really crack the market. I feel like if tech had a couple years to lower it's cost it would have done much better.
Every M&M after the second was radically different and didn't feel like Might & Magic to me. The spark was gone. Getting those black chests was my goal
It sounds like it. Heroes is solid. And while the RPG side of things changed often over the years, I"ll always have a special place in my heart for the first one.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit The talk of the Sci-Fantasy, made me remember some fantasy novels I read years ago, where the magic and monsters originated from an ancient, crashed Prison/Specimen ship.
@@Phreno_Xeno Yeah, that was way more common back then than I remembered. Looking back over the years I've been surprised on how frequently it's a thing.
ua-cam.com/video/eXnyyDualWo/v-deo.html This is the NES version of M&M: The Secret of the Inner Sanctum and its a port for this original console in the same year of the PC release in 1986. It has much better graphics, interface and music, and probably a team of artists for the console port. JVC can only do magic, with a bunch of good artists, which he did not have when he created the first version on computers. The M&M series are much more about art than gameplay. You can see and hear this in every game they made since the early 90ies, starting with M&M3: Isles of Terra in 1991. I only recommend the NES version, if you absolutely must start with the first game i have this habit, too.
I had this game back on the C64 in the glory days of 1986 or 87... For some reason I remember being frustrated with the game and stopped playing it early on. I kept getting my butt handed to me. I recall going back to Bard's Tale 2 where I had things figured out and did the ass kicking. lol... Good video. I might have to go back and give this one another try.
I’ve not yet seriously tried to play MM1, but I play MM6 a lot, and the things you are describing-secret exploits, xp wishing wells, the ability to jump to “high level areas” has carried over to the latter games.
Great bookclub discussion! I've only played M&M 3, which I really enjoyed and it was interesting to have a look at where it started. I totally agree with you about being over rolling stats. I much prefer systems where you assign points. That's hilarious about DeathLord Relorded! How many rolls does it take to get to the center of a...
I really need to sit down and really read his stuff. I always do it in this sort of hit one thing and forget to go back fashion. I'm glad he agrees though!
Ha. I really fell out of love with M&M when they did Xeen. It was so far from the power fantasy over level grind and explore that I fell in love with. They're not bad, but they're not what I think of when I think of Might and Magic.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit ah, that is fair. Personally, I started either with Clouds of Xeen or Isles of Terra, but only got really into the series with 6... and the first one I actually finished was 7... I should probably replay all of them at some point.
@@lemonZzzzs Definitely replay them! Would love to know what you think about them going back. We just had a talk on the Discord about how I can say without a doubt Ultima V is a better game than III, but you know what game I go back and play repeatedly? Not 5. There's something about the simplicity of just crashing around a game world, doing things, with a quest somewhere in the background if you need a focus that adds a desire to return and try different ways that a more fleshed out story doesn't give you. Or that's just me.
My first big fantasy game that I played on C64 was Bard's Tale 2, and I use that as my measuring stick when playing other similar game franchises. I moved on and enjoyed the gold box games by SSI, and only played the two Xeen games later on in university. The Might and Magic franchise never really stood out for me otherwise. Great video as always!
Are you glad you played 2 before 1? Going back now I am. I really liked 2, but 1 feels more polished somehow and think I would have been disappointed if I did them in the other order.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit I do really like how the first one is contained within one town, and the story of how you're trapped there. I did buy the remastered versions of them on Steam and have been picking away at them. I think I've only actually played the second one all the way to the end, some battles are insane from what I remember in 3 (plus I never had a thief to transport over from 2), also back then I didn't understand optimizing a party, I just made the classes I wanted.
@@konasavage There are things I thought were really cool about 3, but the story and dungeons always left me a little flat. I might try it again via the remaster, but not going to feel bad if I miss out on it.
The "Heroes" series was more of a successor and rebranding of the original King's Bounty, so the disconnect from the RPG is not surprising. By the way, you should cover King's Bounty - it's a genre you don't do much and went on to generate a significant series in itself.
yep, KB roots and it abandoning the sci-fi elements despite featuring very recognizable units, places, and heroes... They totally should cover the original KB though. You can play it in a browser nowadays :D
Just saying, I love M&M 1 also. Play the C64 and the IBM versions, it can take a year to finish. Have a huge binder of level maps. Still have (working) boot floppies of games in progress.. LoL
I played HoMM 2 prior to getting MM6, and the tie-in of the latter to the former was engaging to me. I’d never had experience with any M&M game prior to that
MM2 on the Apple IIe was everything for me. The hours and hours and hours you could spend in that game kept me absorbed and hooked. Then when the hintbook came out and revealed soooo much more in the game that I never knew about and inspired me to try and find that Megadragon... Still remember my character party: Thrud the Barbarian, Flower the Knight, Hosoi the Ninja, Robetta the Robber, Clerica the Cleric, Sorcerer the Sorcerer, with the hirelings Cleogotcha the Archer, and Big Bootay the Cleric.
Good times
That was a fun video. Might and Magic 1 and the Pool of Radiance are the two RPGs I have the fondest memories of when thinking back to the Commodore 64 days.
As an avid fan of the Might and Magic series, I'm all for making "Xeenery" happen! Great (and fair) discussion of M&M I.
I started with MM3. I broke two keyboards. I didn't have a proper desk; I had to keep the keyboard on my lap. And twice, in the first town, the same green monster cast purple diamonds at me at the exact moment I turned left. Twice it startled me so hard I dropped my keyboard. Once I could snap it back, but the other time it just died.
No other jump scare ever cost me that much since then (I was a kid with a tiny allowance and keyboards were really expensive).
One of my top 5 RPGs from my Commodore childhood for sure. Loved this one, and it brought back great memories. I also really loved the box and map art at the time. Really got my imagination going. And that ending! ha Always loved M&MB1 but never played another one for some reason.
The box and the map art really were special. So many hidden monsters on the map just begging you to go find them.
What were the other 4?
I watched a friend play this on his Apple 2… I was so jelly. He had Wings of Fury as well… color.
I remember drooling over it in Commodore Magazine ads for a long time before I got it. Was so happy when I finally brought it home after a long trip only to then have to copy a character disk before I could play and had to go to bed without even getting into the town as I ran out of time.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit I had the same experience with Bards Tale and similar games. I honestly loved Telengard. Ever play that D&D like c64 game? It’s kind of history. That game and Questron was easy and fun.
@@4kdemoscene I have. I like those fun simple dungeon crawls sometime. Just go in, loot and scoot through the whole thing relaxing and having a good time.
For some reason asking me that reminded me I need to try Gemstone Warrior again too. I took a quick look at that once, but never kept going.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit ah yeah… name rings a bell. I’ll Google it.
I've been asking for the M&M series since I joined the channel and I feel like you've really delivered here. I am one of those with a fond memory of the Xeen games but you're right about starting from the first one. It was seminal in a lot of ways and any discussion of this era of computer gaming that doesn't touch on M&M feels lacking to me. Xeen, the Heroes of M&M series, the later M&M games (6+) all had their pluses and minuses, but this was the beginning of that I feel. It was D&D without being D&D.
It's interesting, too, that many of the things that were a problem with this game were fixed in later games (and you'll probably discuss these when you get to those). By M&M 3/4 there are spells which will reveal secret walls. A lot more of the world is animated. There is a legitimate difference between underground and above ground environments. Casting menus are built into the game. The map can simply be turned on or off (or filled in automatically by a spell). Lots of improvements as the game series developed.
It's one we've both wanted to do since the early days of the channel. One of the first games on our list. Navigating the length of RPGs for the channel without burning out on them has made it take WAY to long to get here.
I actually love the 3DO. Its got a lot of really good games on it and its charming in its miserable failureness.
It's a real shame for it. I think it had some great ideas, but just couldn't bring the price point or games behind it to really crack the market. I feel like if tech had a couple years to lower it's cost it would have done much better.
He Man originally had that "fantasy + rayguns" thing going on, they pulled it off somehow.
ps SimCity rules!
I wish Thundarr the Barbarian would make some kind of comeback.
Every M&M after the second was radically different and didn't feel like Might & Magic to me. The spark was gone.
Getting those black chests was my goal
I really feel like we’re the minority and that is really too bad.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit it seemed like every game maker had to go Doom like Ultima Underworld with their games
@@MrJimbojamez agreed. Sometimes just give me a world that makes me feel like I’m small in it.
I remember playing Warriors oM&M, and Crusaders on PS1, later I played Dark Messiah on the 360. Looks like I missed the best parts of the franchise.
It sounds like it. Heroes is solid. And while the RPG side of things changed often over the years, I"ll always have a special place in my heart for the first one.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit The talk of the Sci-Fantasy, made me remember some fantasy novels I read years ago, where the magic and monsters originated from an ancient, crashed Prison/Specimen ship.
@@Phreno_Xeno Yeah, that was way more common back then than I remembered. Looking back over the years I've been surprised on how frequently it's a thing.
ua-cam.com/video/eXnyyDualWo/v-deo.html
This is the NES version of M&M: The Secret of the Inner Sanctum and its a port for this original console in the same year of the PC release in 1986.
It has much better graphics, interface and music, and probably a team of artists for the console port.
JVC can only do magic, with a bunch of good artists, which he did not have when he created the first version on computers.
The M&M series are much more about art than gameplay. You can see and hear this in every game they made since the early 90ies, starting with M&M3: Isles of Terra in 1991.
I only recommend the NES version, if you absolutely must start with the first game i have this habit, too.
I had this game back on the C64 in the glory days of 1986 or 87... For some reason I remember being frustrated with the game and stopped playing it early on. I kept getting my butt handed to me. I recall going back to Bard's Tale 2 where I had things figured out and did the ass kicking. lol...
Good video. I might have to go back and give this one another try.
Xeenery! Love it!
I think that one physically hurt me if I'm being honest.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit I'm sorry. I pray for your recovery
@@lordsheogorath8895 Not you... Matt with Xeenery. It's funny, but still hit me somewhere inside my soul.
I’ve not yet seriously tried to play MM1, but I play MM6 a lot, and the things you are describing-secret exploits, xp wishing wells, the ability to jump to “high level areas” has carried over to the latter games.
Legend of Might and Magic was 3DO’s try at a live MMO. It was great, but small in scale.
Great bookclub discussion! I've only played M&M 3, which I really enjoyed and it was interesting to have a look at where it started. I totally agree with you about being over rolling stats. I much prefer systems where you assign points.
That's hilarious about DeathLord Relorded! How many rolls does it take to get to the center of a...
The CRPG Addict rated MM1 more highly than the sequels (he hasn’t gotten to MM6 or later games, yet).
I really need to sit down and really read his stuff. I always do it in this sort of hit one thing and forget to go back fashion. I'm glad he agrees though!
Starting with game 1 to appreciate a series? Sure. You like MM1 over MM7? You, sir, are a monster.
Ha. I really fell out of love with M&M when they did Xeen. It was so far from the power fantasy over level grind and explore that I fell in love with. They're not bad, but they're not what I think of when I think of Might and Magic.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit ah, that is fair. Personally, I started either with Clouds of Xeen or Isles of Terra, but only got really into the series with 6... and the first one I actually finished was 7... I should probably replay all of them at some point.
@@lemonZzzzs Definitely replay them! Would love to know what you think about them going back. We just had a talk on the Discord about how I can say without a doubt Ultima V is a better game than III, but you know what game I go back and play repeatedly? Not 5. There's something about the simplicity of just crashing around a game world, doing things, with a quest somewhere in the background if you need a focus that adds a desire to return and try different ways that a more fleshed out story doesn't give you.
Or that's just me.
My first big fantasy game that I played on C64 was Bard's Tale 2, and I use that as my measuring stick when playing other similar game franchises. I moved on and enjoyed the gold box games by SSI, and only played the two Xeen games later on in university. The Might and Magic franchise never really stood out for me otherwise. Great video as always!
Are you glad you played 2 before 1? Going back now I am. I really liked 2, but 1 feels more polished somehow and think I would have been disappointed if I did them in the other order.
@@ChrisFreeman_4Bit I do really like how the first one is contained within one town, and the story of how you're trapped there. I did buy the remastered versions of them on Steam and have been picking away at them. I think I've only actually played the second one all the way to the end, some battles are insane from what I remember in 3 (plus I never had a thief to transport over from 2), also back then I didn't understand optimizing a party, I just made the classes I wanted.
@@konasavage There are things I thought were really cool about 3, but the story and dungeons always left me a little flat. I might try it again via the remaster, but not going to feel bad if I miss out on it.
The "Heroes" series was more of a successor and rebranding of the original King's Bounty, so the disconnect from the RPG is not surprising. By the way, you should cover King's Bounty - it's a genre you don't do much and went on to generate a significant series in itself.
My wife loved the kings bounty series. She hasn’t played the original or 2 yet, but she ate those others up.
yep, KB roots and it abandoning the sci-fi elements despite featuring very recognizable units, places, and heroes...
They totally should cover the original KB though. You can play it in a browser nowadays :D
I never played this game or series way back in the day.
Just saying, I love M&M 1 also. Play the C64 and the IBM versions, it can take a year to finish. Have a huge binder of level maps. Still have (working) boot floppies of games in progress.. LoL
The interface is fantastic just like in Autoduel.
I played HoMM 2 prior to getting MM6, and the tie-in of the latter to the former was engaging to me. I’d never had experience with any M&M game prior to that
Any chance of you guys doing TES Arena and/or Daggerfall? Both are free. And classic.
Go Daggerfall Unity, muuuuuuch better
Great game. Stupid ending.