Here's a quote from the Design Works interview: "Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery." Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected."
I never doubted it was intentional. It just doesn't seem worth it. As soon as I hit No Man's Wharf I knew that any effort to immerse myself in Drangleic would be undercut by nagging questions that take me out of the experience, so I never viewed it as anything more than a collection of themed video game levels.
Domo my king. If you want some sort of credibility to your arguments, you need to split up your video into 6 individual, 4 hour length parts. And you need to talk condescendingly to your audience the entire time. Only then, will your rebutals be accepted into the cultural lexicon.
The problem Mauler and other detractors are having is that DS2 isn't a basic fantasy story about an ancient fight between gods and dragons, but is rather an existential exploration of self - what it means to be human, and how much of that is lost if you take away memory and purpose. It relies on knowledge of real myth, legend, and psychology that many gamers don't have the cultural intelligence to reference. The Shining is a fantastic point of comparison, and there are many people who completely miss the messaging in that film too. Drangliec is a land caught in a constant cycle of empire and ruin, each kingdom being forgotten long before the next is constructed. The people who reside there cannot remember their goals, families, or even themselves. When you take an elevator up from the top of a windmill and arrive at the base of a lava castle and think "how does this make any sense?" that's EXACTLY how the game wants you to feel. "How did I get here?" is the entire theme of the narrative.
The game really tries to beat it into your head too. Repeatedly referencing that you will end up somewhere "without really knowing why," characters constantly relating their own stories of dementia...I mean it honestly is legitimately sad that there are people who can play the whole game and still not pick up on the themes at all. I'm willing to chalk the earthen peak elevator up as a result of rushed development (I believe someone on the dev team basically said as much in an interview), I won't fight people on that one. But things like Heide's tower or Drangleic Castle appearing miles away only for their respective tunnels to take you there in less than a minute - you don't do this stuff by mistake, people talking about how easy it would be to "fix" the skyboxes to better match the gameplay are completely missing that the devs would have had no trouble doing it themselves if they thought it were necessary. the tunnel to the castle even takes you from a slightly overcast midday to a dark stormy night, it's not particularly subtle.
@@TonyTonyRedgravethe art director stated that even the transition to Iron Keep is deliberately confusing, as they could have just made it go down underground. Here's a quote from the Design Works interview: "Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery." Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected."
@Heclemysheckel Even if he might be, that doesn’t change the fact that the weird shifts from location to location is intentional on the part of the devs.
In a way Mauler's ramblings represent a character perpetually stuck in the world of Drangleic, trying to understand and make logical sense out of convoluted place he has no recollection of. Eight hour video critique, without even knowing the reason why.
I mean. We know the reason why. It's to epicly pwn the famous left yewtwuber Harriton Splimby. Once you look at Mauler's "response" as a purely reactive attack on a political opponent it starts to make more sense. Mauler isn't really trying to be correct. He's trying to defeat someone he dislikes.
The thing that makes Mauler's DS2 videos infuriating is that him and his audience genuinely believe that trying to contradict literally *every word and sentence* of Hbomb's video is actually what a good critique is, when it's the most blatant example of a gish gallop you can imagine. This tactic also ends up in him spending a comical amount of time making arguments that make no fucking sense, like him spending like half an hour trying to contest the use of the words "nightmare" or "falling apart" to describe the general structure and environmental storytelling of DS2. That entire section doesn't support his thesis at all, he's literally just bitching about the use of adjectives in a way he didn't like in the most round-about way possible, it's a pointless waste of time. Once you notice it, you will quickly spot how Mauler's rethoric often boils down to arguing semantics, "oh, you used the word X? Well I define the word X this way, therefore you are wrong and I'm objectively correct". This snippet is a great example of his modus operandi in action: 12:05. "Oh you used the word *inconsistency* to refer to the fact DS2's world is deliberately trying to evoke a feeling of dread and confusion? Well too bad because I define *inconsistency* as a synonym of something being bad and not thought out properly, therefore you are actually saying DS2 is badly designed, I objectively win this argument." How can anyone take Mauler and his cohort as serious critics is beyond me.
"trying to contradict literally every word and sentence of a video about a game I like is bad" Yeah just like how dark souls 2's world doesn't make sense because of the themes of your character having dementia, true criticism of someone's video game opinions needs to be spread out over a dozen video in non-linear order with a sarcastic robot voice (which also fits the themes of the game since DS2 feels like it was AI generated)
@@saysalla the world of DS2 has a very strong theme of a person's journey through life and all the ways they can lose their humanity. I mean, c'mon, the twix between is literally shaped like you're coming out of a dark place into the bright, overwhelming world through a big vertical slit and the final boss is basically Grimm Reaper. And most bosses have various themes of corruption and mental disorders symbolizing the way a life can go wrong. All you need is just to be open-minded about things you dive into instead of being stuck in your rigid pre-made schematics. It's like visiting another country, spending the entire visit in your hotel room watching crappy TV shows about the place, then leaving and telling everyone that the country was crap despite you never actually giving it a fair chance. Also, have you ever considered that Domo is making his response series in parts because listening to people like Mauler is unironically mentally taxing? When you have your own brain and ability to think critically, not be affected by manipulation and rhetorical malice, listening to such bs becomes simply painful. I honestly applaud Domo's patience because I personally wouldn't stand even 10 minutes of Mauler's or HBomber's rant. It also doesn't help that Mauler's mentality reminds me of myself when I was a teen and I remember how miserable and empty that lifestyle was. I also was an insufferable and boring person to be around but couldn't see it through the disguise of pseudo-intelligence. So I judge Mauler from an insight point of view as well.
The point about there being a lot of dragons isn’t very subtle is just asinine. What does that even mean? Why would this part need to be subtle? Subtlety shouldn’t even be a point of contention here at all. I swear, so many people have “subtlety” brainrot. Being subtle isn’t always the best. These people certainly aren’t very subtle about how much they love subtlety.
My favorite part is the fact that he's all about subtlety *until* it gets to the part where Mauler needs to parse through the actual themes of the video game he's spent *10 hours* reviewing. Some incredible irony on display by him. I couldn't make something more blatantly ironic if I tried.
But really, even if it isn't a pocket dimention, it still makes sense that the world would be weirder than Dark Souls 1, when a) So many kindoms have risen and fallen where dranglaic stands b) Vendrick which was supossed to link the flame, didn't to avoid giving access to Nashandra, leaving the flame weaker than in ds1 thus the world being more fucked AND even if it isn't either, the insconsistencies add to the sense of forgetfulness and doubt that the game is giving to you if you pay attention, and if you are not, well you won't notice, like I didn't notice in my first playthrough
@@Domo3000 Mauler: "...to be perfectly honest, stuffing a level with [many dragons] isn't exactly subtle. I prefer a more subdued approach, myself, but that's not something we're discussing here so let's continue." (14:11) Also Mauler: "[The level design]'s boring, but it's consistent. Areas take after each other one by one connected by very weak, corridor-like structures. There is no melting into each other, like you would see in _The Evil Within_ , _Alan Wake_ , or _Alice_ : _The Madness Returns_ , which are actual games about nightmarish content." (6:14) He keeps alluding he's got such a sophistocated palette and 10k IQ with all his objective thoughts and opinions, but quite literally takes 9 hours to constantly complain about how he needs his hand to be held to take in the level design, themes, and story. Edit: fixed typo and italics not working because youtube is weird about formatting
You know, in the very beginning I thought it was kinda funny… but at this point, I literally CANNOT listen to MauLer’s smug, arrogant and condescending tone of voice when talking about (more like belittling tbh) DS2 or hbomberguy. How anyone can sit through those 9 videos of his, which all average around 1h watch time, is absolutely beyond me.
MauLer is genuinely one of the most insufferable people on UA-cam. He sounds like this in every single video and “podcast” of his and it makes sitting through his content unbearably annoying.
I honestly feel sorry for Mauler. I might know how bland and cold his life must have been for him to turn out so objectivity-obsessed and machine-like, as well as very fixated on snobbish hatred and patronizing. Fortunately, in my life, there was a caring person to save me from going that direction.
The worst part is he's not even _actually_ objective in any way. It's just a meaningless word he throws around as a way to try and give bad arguments more weight, and as if works of art aren't often _defined_ by their subjective value/meaning to the viewer.
@@joshwenn989 art is literally all subjectivity. Even laws of physics aren't 100% objective as people keep finding out that the deeper you go on the universe scale, the less consistently the ones we know work.
@@kaschey6145 Just imagine Mauler ranting about how our reality is badly designed because when you go down to the atomic level, the laws of the universe (that we know of) start breaking apart lol
Also like. Let's say, hypothetically, that art is objective. I'm not. I'm subjective, and I like things for subjective reasons. So why should I care that one movie is objectively better if I like a different movie more?
Yeah I used to think dark souls 2 was kind of shit but after watching a bunch of domo videos I now think it's a masterpiece because as a dark souls 2 fan I need someone on the internet to tell me what my opinions are.
@@saysalla overwhelming hate from people like Mauler and their cultist fanboys makes new players afraid and hesitant to give DS2 a fair chance. Domo doesn't even advertise DS2 that much - he mostly just debunks BS around this game.
FINALLY someone says this! It annoys me so much that so many in the DS community take these games so literally. Don't show Mauler Picasso's paintings or he's gonna make another 10 hour objective critique about how they make basic design mistakes. DS1 was already big on the themes of memory/personality loss and DS2 beautifully takes this idea further. It is a surreal masterpiece. There are so many hints given to the player, as nicely collected in your video. It blows my mind that this went over so many people's heads, you just need to pay a little attention to notice... But then again, the same could be said about the enemy placement, adaptability and all that other good stuff. The world honestly does not deserve this game.
ok, I'm pissed off about what mauler says at 10:15 ish. He somehow doesn't get that hbomb is using a metaphor when he says that 'the world is falling apart'. He doesn't mean that it is literally, physically decaying, but it is ceasing to make sense, that space itself is coming apart at the seams. How does someone miss this.
I have to say, the video he made of ds2 was 6 years old, and 3 years after that, he reviewed The Father, a movie about a man with dementia, and he praised it for many of the things he missed out on in DS2. I'd like to imagine he started to pick up on it in DS2. The film has many of the same elements that he praises, constantly changing scenery, character recontextualization (not in DS2 iirc), just about everything from DS2 in regards to its dementia-like state.
But the scenery isn't constantly changing in DS2. It is always the same. If they wanted "shifting scenery" they could've actually done that by having objects that pop in or pop out, timed colour changes, etc. The place you are in DS2 is real. Confirmed in DS3. Your character having memory loss doesn't change that. I think, once again, "time is convoluted" is doing comical amounts of heavy lifting. It is fine to like Dark Souls 2 and agree that Iron Keep was poorly conveyed. It doesn't really impact the game all that much, anyway. Dragn Aerie is a bit harder to sort out. Could've been solved by having the imps fly you there instead of an elevator. Again, doesn't REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things. They put elevators there, because video game. 🤷♂️ It really wasn't some kind of grand 4D-philosophy-chess-3000iq-Kantian-quantum-genius. They just had to finish their product.
@@shemsuhor8763drangleic existed, yes, but it doesn't anymore by the time you arrive, it's the reason why in the intro there was the reflection of drangleic on the lake, but in it's place in the real world there were only debris and ruins, drangleic doesn't exist anymore, were we play in DS2 is more of a construct made because of the curse
Earthen Peak is specifically related to Angels. The Grave Wardens populating it are originally from the Undead Crypt where there can be found images of Cherubs. Also, the "fans" of the Sorceresses are actually supposed to be hand-mirrors (the ♀ symbol represents Venus' hand-mirror). Note also the name Mirrah (capital of Lindelt) being a corruption of Mirror and Myra (city-state in Asia Minor), similar to Leydia being a corruption of Ley, Lady and Lydia (kingdom in Asia Minor). Additionally, the Mirror Knight has angel wings etched on his back. I believe the idea is that the Sorceresses communed with angels via the mirrors, similar to how the Crystal Sages used their Crystal Balls (the court sorceror set (DS3) resembles Sir Edward Kelly's garb and includes scrying crystals; Kelly and John Dee supposedly spoke to angels through a mirror). Indeed, the gargoyles of the Profaned Capital and Grand Archives are stone Angels, but I digress. I guess I'll also mention that I believe the Milfanito are based on Cherubim. (Angels of Song, to contrast with the Demon of Song)
Throne Watcher and Throne Defender symbolise an angel and a dragon. Primordial Serpents (Watchdragons) seem related to Seraphim and Original Giants seem based on Nephilim (offspring of Humans and angels) Thrones are actually a class of Angels too.
I never did consider DS2 toying with the idea of memory degradation beyond individual characters. When really thinking about how the world of Drangleic feels like a very messy, surreal, and even demented place being the consequence of a dream world, or the product of a degrading imagination, it does make more sense for it to be the way it is.
Every FromSoft Soulslike (not counting Sekiro) plays on the mystery world disconnected from other places and structured in weird ways that shift. In Demon's Souls it was explained by the fog which was then used as a gameplay meachnic in every subsequent game, in Dark Souls one Solaire openly tells you about it early in the game and the DLC even takes you back in time, in DS2 there's everything that you talked about in this video, Bloodborne directly tackles the topic of dreams and nightmares, Dark Souls 3 openly shows you the lands shifting and converging in endgame and DLC, Elden Ring's world is straight up called the Lands Between, with the Elden Ring which contained the rules of this world being a malleable thing now shattered, and the Land of Shadow being a distinct other realm sort of parallel to the main game one
Are we to assume we are being taken to another dimension? Or is it possible the portal was simply teleportation? NPCs talk about how they came from other lands e.g. Maughlin talks about his homeland and how he ended up in Majula.
I know it's kinda a meme in MauLer's group to accuse him of this... but i genuinely think he has a lack of grasp when it comes to more abstract concepts in art like the ones you presented. Its like if it isn't either super tangible like 1:1 real world rules OR, there's nuance and room for interpretation in how the world and setting fits together... then it simply must be bad. This is especially frustrating with his critique of DS2's setting/world as he keeps talking in a spiral of nonsensical drivel. Almost like a bad rant over why he just didnt like it. But since he can talk in a slower and more restrained way and has a fancy accent he *sounds* like he knows what he's talking about. At this point I could only attribute malice to all these 5+ hours of DS2 slander. He might have a hate bone to pick with Harris' vid. But its like he just wanted to be a contrarian to Harris and DS2 was caught in the crossfire
Here's a quote from the Design Works interview: "Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery." Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected." According to the Art Director the nonsensical connections were implemented as a deliberate way of creating confusion. So I'm pretty sure that the themes I'm talking about in this video where created as possible solutions for this mystery. Instead of even considering that it could be a deliberate mystery Mauler just went ahead and ignored all those themes and just called it lazy instead - and yet he considers himself to be a qualified art critic.
Mauler would blow his top off trying to read Berserk, I think he praises berserk but doesnt realise ds2 is the closest thing to berserk gaming has ever done besides the shitty berserk game lmao. The abstract themes and levels of reality would send him into a straightjacket, you bring up the interstice and its all over for him
The emerald herald sounds different when you're in the Dragon's aerie. The lines were most likely intended to be used with the child model. If From fully followed through with all of that i think that would have really beaten into some people's head that time and space are convoluted.
My first comment was a joke, now after watching the video I would say that recalling my first playthrough I did not feel like the worlds was poorly put together, and felt amazed at each new area, however I do think that the game could have leaned more into the reality breaking, maybe with more npcs trying and falling to recall where were they last in their questline (last location) or for example in the souls of the lords saying something about them externalizing their power through their geographical surroundings. Lastly I completely agree with the drangleic castle tunnel, first time playing it really felt like I was traveling into another world, like the castle itself was recluded into a completely different reality and what we saw from majula was an illusion, it really helped to make it be the climax of the story.
@@andrewwestfall65 if I understand correctly the story behind DS2, they literally couldn't, they realized that they were to ambitious to far in too development and so then they went the other way, limitations like that can make you find workarounds that end up being core part of the experience like mist in silent hill
I think the ultimate irony of DS2 and the hate it receives is that the plot is focused on you as the player. I get the sense gamers who generally use video games as an escape from their reality into a virtual power fantasy recognize this on a subconscious level and it causes a sort of cognitive dissonance. Most people won't ever admit that they hate themselves let alone begin to take steps towards loving themselves.
I do think DS2's unshaking commitment to melancholy and futility does alienate some... less literary inclined players (which there's nothing wrong with). But that makes it stand out, even in the souls series.
@@saysalla Well, DS2 haters must definitely have a miserable life if they consider it their duty to f*ck the brains of anyone who says something good and not false about a game they don’t like
You’re absolutely correct. Dark Souls 2 is the only Souls game interested in being anything more than a masturbatory power fantasy. FromSoftware is generally no better than Bethesda in that they are solely interested in entertaining a players violent desires rather than examining them through subversion.
If this truly is your last vid on debunking MauLer's terrible vids then i just want to thank you for the amazing work! 🙏 It was been so refreshing seeing someone who actually care about DS2 and can show off just how wrongly treated it has been simply for not being DS1.
I read a very compelling reddit post illustrating the similarities between DS2's world and characters, and H.P. Lovecraft's "The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath". Its not unusual given the other Lovecraftian elements in the series.
Having DS2 explained as another pocket dimension makes so much sense to me, especially when moving onto DS3 where both DLCs are in pocket dimension, then a time warp. This also reinforces that in the DS universe everything happens on the same cycle over and over again.
I think the references to dark souls 2 in dark souls 3 disprove this theory because the actual pocket dimension, ariamis and ariendel, are still treated like pocket dimensions while things like literally earthen peak being in dark souls 3 prove that the lands of dark souls 2 did exist in the same world as dark souls 3 and even 1. The giant tree is also another great example. Yhorm is also described as a descendant of an ancient, giant conqueror which eludes to him being a descendant of the giant lord. I think the theory of dark souls 2 being a pocket dimension is cool but I personally think that all the references between the games point to dark souls 2 being set in the same world as its brother games
Dark Souls 2 was my least favorite to play. However, I have a lot of respect for the game because it was far more ambitious and made a lot more interesting choices than Dark Souls 3.
@@vanilla.icescream Most of them are, if you were to take a cross-section of the community at large you would realize basically nobody is actually like this and ds2 vs ds3 drama online is just two vocal minorities whining about a victimhood complex
@@WyattStrange thats not a good example of art having "objective qualities" something like game balancing has less nuance to talk about, more variety in an rpg isbetter then less, no matter how you slice it.
@@WyattStrange Fans of Jackson Pollock might disagree with that bro. MauLer often looks at objective elements, mostly focused on plot/plot inconsistencies, and gives value judgements based on the things that are present. He can very myopic at times which is just exacerbated by the laser focus and extended criticism that he's known for.
@@teiull9388 Is more variety necessarily better if it's "junk" variety? A good example would be the number of weapons in LotF, there are a lot but every weapon class has the same moveset is basically just a reskinned version of any other weapon in that class. You could say it's a positive in itself but there's a negative that comes with it that outweighs that positive.
I just realized in the beginning of the intro the guy (player?) in the background falls down then everything else plays. It could be a dream or a hallucination produced due to hollowing. He dreams of getting up and sinking then ending up in a Drangleic. In Bloodborne its implied that the hunter might be dreaming for whatever reason, they might have been ill in the real world. Dark Souls 3 also continues with convoluted timeline so my guess is that after Dark Souls 1 the hollowing got worse and some started dreaming about being heroes and what not. Or their soul got pulled out in a pocket dimension by firekeepers in order to be protected or cleansed.. Just my thought's tho..
Great video. It was the complete dismissal of DS2's themes and narratives that initially clued me into the fact that the popular DS2 critics were really off the mark in their analyses. I think this makes for an exceptional swan song to your Mauler rebuttal series. Really it is the complete misunderstanding of the themes of a highly thematic game that represents the nail in the coffin of his critique.
Whatever criticisms one can make of mauler, he does actually say different things in his 5+ hour videos, he's not very repetitive. In cases where hes right that means a lot of detail as to why. when hes wrong though... thats a lotta wrong things o.o
@@timefades27It still is, I've yet to see a genuine argument supporting ds2 that doesnt boil down to "the game you like is also bad therefore the game i like is good 😭"
@@saysallaBias much? You know that isn't true. The chances of you not running into a single "4 ring slots, you can take off strong rings without having to fear them breaking like the RFP, more armour and weapon variety, bonfire ascetics, more interactions between equipment (can parry magic, shield that straight up sends it flying away and can turn it against the caster) which is a complete improvement, more magic variety a not by a little bit, expanded ranged options between bow-crossbow weapon classes and even consumables becoming viable, elemental damage scaling, THE AMAZING MAGIC SPICE MECHANIC LETTING 1 INT BUILDS USE MAGIC FOR ROLEPLAYING IF THEY WANT, the lore still manages to be interesting and thoughtful even If the development was a shitshow making the whole process of learning it 1000x more impressive even with its sporadic gaping info voids, P.O.W.E.R.S.T.A.N.C.I.N.G. , more variety in where you want to go at the beginning of the game and more access to weapons at the very start, many unique things only DS2 does (look at limitbreakers video for info), an actual NG+ experience, etc." Argument is next to 0. I can go on for a while but you get the point. I strongly believe there is a 0 chance of you not finding a single one of these pieces of information showing DS2 is a fine game, and a fine souls game too in the wild. Just ask me if you need more. Closing with that statement really doesn't show you in a good light.
I don't think I agree with the whole of Drangleic being a pocket dimension. Drangleic exist(ed) in the real world too, the Old Crone says as such in the intro cutscene. NPCs like Bernhart and Lucatiel don't appear to have crossed time to get here as they mention concrete directions they have come from like "distant East" and "Far East," they traveled over land to get to Drangleic. Things Betwixt is a limbo link between Space and Time to bring you and the players into the past to this particular point in the fall of Drangleic. You seemingly arrive through the structure in the Garden, that is the exit portal. The entrance to the portal was the lake. If you look at the structure in the garden it should look familiar, they appear in 3 other places in the game, next to Grandahl who uses them to create portals to the Dark Chasm of Old. They appear to be conduits for spatial magic.
I keep thinking the mauling of mauler is over, yet Domo keeps destroying this man without even breaking a sweat again and again... Truly built different.
rewatching this video and god damn, it feels like MauLer is practically incapable of abstract thinking. I think MauLer could personally decimate the whole essence of my being if he ever talked about Twin Peaks.
Although zullie the witch has pointed out the mismanagement of ds2’s corporate handling lead to certain things about its world design and time travel plot being dropped, with the salamander cave being theorized to be the original route to iron keep. I feel like the current structure of the world does a better job of presenting the themes of it. With the series not only refusing to reject that design which could be seen as a flaw, but making it a active plot point of the deteriorating world of dark souls in ds3. Once again proving the significance of ds2 to the soulsborne series. With Miyazaki only regret for ds2 being that he should have let it do its own thing, which conflits with the “B team” idea people have for this game. Ds2 certainly has some of the best thematic elements in the series. With a much more personal and dark story in comparison to its siblings that focus more on the world at large.
My favorite is the way critics attempt to downplay the themes and content in dark souls 3 that came from DS2 when in reality DS3 is chock-full of references to DS2 and they just never actually played it or at the very least payed attention.
15:03 mauler literally fights an npc and thinks its another player, if that isn't proof he's talking out his ass i don't know what is also he pulled the lever that tells you 7 times not to💀
Its the same with the champions covenant which tells you straight up the game will rek you. Join said covenant and then proceed to whine why enemies rek you and call DS2 to hard.
I've said this before and I'll say it again: critics like Mauler are so hyperfixated on "critiquing" every aspect of a piece of media, that they're incapable of seeing anything beyond the surface level of a work of art. They miss the forest for the trees, and with Mauler specifically, it's at such a large and blatantly disingenuous manner that it borders on just being malicious for the sake of it. What good intentioned individual goes on for 9 hours trying to tell someone they're wrong for enjoying a piece of media or art because it's "objectively bad"? Let alone, more recently, going on Twitter rants because he was merely given a passing mention in a video about long form media criticism, is proof enough that he himself believes he is above criticism. But others? Fair game for him. Art is subjective. It isn't objectively good or bad. It's entirely dependent on how the individual consuming it interprets it. That's something Mauler, and others like him, fail to wrap their heads around. Art doesn't have to conform to any logical structure or rigid criteria to have value to someone. That's what makes art... Art. We all gleam something different from it. Whether good, bad, thought provoking, vapid, brilliant, self-indulgent, or anything in between. Mauler can't think beyond the bare minimum of the surface to even entertain such a thought about media or art in general. And it's sad that so many view him as a professional in this. He's less than amateurish.
I don't think it's fair to lump all long form criticisms under one umbrella. Patrician TV's long analysis of The Elder Scrolls 3/4/5 are amazing pieces of work. We need good critics that care about the quality of whatever medium they cover to help people understand what they really want from the art they enjoy. To palm off all forms of critique under the banner of "art is subjective" (whether or not that is the case regardless of the vast philisophical implications of making such an assertion about the nature of art), is a bit short sighted in my mind. It is the analysis of art that gives it its value, without discussion and criticism all we have left is a tree falling in the woods and nobody around to hear if it really made a sound.
@@michaelcarroll5801 I wasn't specifically calling out all long form critics. There are some good ones. Noah Caldwell Gervais being a good example, in my opinion. I have barely any experience from Patrician TV, and what experience I've heard has been quite mixed, so can't speak there. It's just that the space has become over saturated with many who have tried to mimic Mauler's success, which has led to pretty bad and bad faith criticism of art and media. You can criticize art, that's not what I'm denying. It's how you go about doing so is the primary issue. A broken game that doesn't work properly is a flaw to be criticised. Or a movie or TV show with uninteresting characters or wooden acting. Aspects of a piece of art can be criticized. The art piece as a whole is open to criticism. The processes behind its creation can be criticized. All things are, and it's good to be critical of the art we consume. But not all people view aspects of criticism the same, and that's what people like Mauler fail to see. Believing that their own opinion about the piece is the correct interpretation of it, whether they got details about it right or wrong, or were blatantly disingenuous about how they framed their criticism. Also, of course, art and media that push something genuinely dangerous are free reign for criticism. Propaganda, misinformation, dangerous ideologies, etc. It's a bit more nuanced than I made it come across as, and I'm definitely sorry for coming off that way.
@@Stellos812thanks for elaborating, I definitely misunderstood your point. Critics like Mauler definitely put the cart before the horse; they assume the worst and because of this assumption they bring a massive confirmation bias.
I can understand not liking Mauler, but it's important to remember that his DS2 videos weren't critiquing DS2, he's addressing Hbomber's arguments and points about the game.
@michaelcarroll5801 the difference is that Patrician is someone who actually plays video games and can tell an objective screw up like a broken quest or a mechanic or system being dumbed down.
Every day I wake up grateful MauLer didn't reach me during my edgy teenage phase that he apparently failed to grow out of. The whole "objectivity in art" angle he tries to sell is such horseshit and so nonsensical it could only appeal to literal children. I would like to give a shoutout to him for poking holes in his own logic three times a minute though. From "the game doesn't present the world as being strange, it's all just corridors" to "look at how Aldia's keep clips through a 3D map of the game you can only access with debug tools, how amateur" is embarrassing. This is what happens when you are convinced every word you say is gold and lost your backspace key, infinite blabbering.
I think the “real world” is actually the painted world, one that has successfully survived free from the curse for years until Aldia started messing with things
Years ago I watched dozens of hours of Mauler's content, and I can't think of a single instance in which Mauler demonstrated the kind of insight that Domo does in this single, 15 minute video. Mauler is someone who doesn't make video games, yet somehow insists that there's a _correct_ way to make games. He also seems to be someone who doesn't write, but has no shortage of opinions about how themes _should_ be implemented. Mauler seems to lack a core component of effective criticism; namely, he seems to be completely disconnected from the work itself and solely concerned with justifying his knee-jerk, intellectual responses. I'm starting to wonder whether Mauler could even tell you _why_ he dislikes something on an emotional level, rather than just listing off 'objective flaws' that he Dunning-Krugered into existence. That's why his criticism of movies and shows always devolves into character decision making-- about whether something a character did was 'realistic'-- because he doesn't have the skill or understanding to actually express how a work of fiction makes him _feel_, let alone identify with emotionally-driven themes and characters.
"Mauler isn't a video game developper so he isn't allowed to say bad things about the video game I like 😭" I don't need to be a professional 5 Michelin star world renowned chef to have the culinary experience required to perceive that the chef shat in my plate, I'll just leave a bad review on yelp and go eat somewhere else instead of spending a decade pretending the diarrhoea enhances the flavour but only for people who have a palate refined enough to appreciate it.
@@saysalla yea man, me myself personally I LOVE Capra Demon and the three Asylum Demons and the army of Taurus Demons guarding the Chaos Ember, DS1 is OBVIOUSLY the bestest game ever with zero flaws whatsoever!!!!!
@@inexplicablepresence8274 Why is it that dark souls 2 fans are so insecure they are entirely unable to defend their favorite game without trashing DS1?
@@saysalla then why are the DS2 haters such hypocrites that they don’t notice the same problems in DS1 and DS3, attributing them exclusively to the second part.
It's funny to me that video games give us a unique opportunity to make truly impossible spaces; and when we do, people like mauler get upset. Maybe he's just mad that the game gaslighting him made him feel 'weak'.
Ds2 doesn't really do much to make impossible spaces though Earthen Peak is supposed to be at the base of a volcano containing the Iron Keep. It's just poorly communicated in game The travel distances being shorter is a game play decision / time constraint on development The goal is to make the world look and feel bigger, which the game succeeds at
@@firekramHere's a quote from the Design Works interview: "Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery." Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected." To me, it really looks like they deliberately made the world confusing and added these themes as possible solutions for the mystery.
I suppose my only defense for what MauLer said for this (even foregoing how much of DS2 I love and appreciate) is that we are naturally assuming that the contrived, convoluted and misleading nature of DS2's world design was intentional by the developers, and not as a result of time, pressure and being half cocked with the B-team of FromSoft, things that are naturally true about DS2's design as far back as the initial beta. You mentioned the DLC of Dark Souls 3 that reintroduces Earthen Peak along with the jagged, nonsensical placement of buildings, and in that sense, I feel that WAS intentional design by the devs to really illustrate the convoluted nature of Dark Souls' world. Even the fight arena with Soul of Cinder illustrates this nicely. I never really get that same feeling with Dark Souls 2 in terms of it's design, even if I understand the nature of losing one's self of purpose and struggle. That all being said, whether or not the design of these world was intentional or not, whether they overlap in certain places or don't support a thru-line, I don't think any of this is a huge knock against the game even if it's going against DS1's incredibly intricate level design philosophy, since ultimately gameplay will outshine any nonsensical level design.
Here's a quote from the Design Works interview: "Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery." Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected."
@@Domo3000 I feel like saying 'we wanted to give the player something curious and unexpected' is not the same through line of trying to give a demented, dream like experience that you are trying to convey.
@@somethingguy912the video you‘re commenting under has a high number of examples of NPCs speaking about losing their memory and the world being full of madness and nonsense. How does this not speak for the world design being nonsensical intentionally?
I do think this overlapping is not exactly intentional, but I wouldn't call it lazy, if you know the stories of development of this game they performed a miracle to get it out on time and being a decent game that improved with patches and later Scholar
scholar feels like a mod, ds2 original enemy placement was smarter and more tactful. They just throw a shitload of enemies at you in sotfs for no reason, like when I play through iron keep I regularly have alonne knights falling into the lava because they walk into each other and body block their own pathing lol
@@TheArnoldification I've heard similar critics to scholar recently, I didn't play it so I can't refute you, my cousin really likes scholar, but honestly having played base version (Fully patched) I wouldn't change a thing, I really liked it how it is
@@bloody_dagger819 its really a mixed bag, personally I think it's worse overall because a lot of stuff was changed for the sake of change. For example, there are way more statues you need to use fragrant branches on now and a good amount of them are basically bait so you waste them such as blocking off the main path to the ruin sentinels. I find all it really does is encourage you to not explore areas that you might've otherwise but the reward is not enough to justify the tedium in finding another branch. The thing I like most about it is probably how they integrated finding the DLC keys into loot you have to find in the world, although some people hate this feature because they are somewhat difficult to find when playing through blind. Also, idk if this got patched but when sotfs came out weapons would break twice as fast because it was framerate dependent and sotfs boosts the fps cat from 30 to 60. You could break a katana in like 3 swings if you angled it a certain way on a corner lol
Interesting, I thought Straid's dialogue implied that Drangleic was built on top of civilizations that were built on top of Lordran, hence why you can find the souls of Gwyn, Seath, Nito etc etc etc from the main bosses... But this video seems to imply that Drangleic is like the Painted World of Ariamis... How do these two things become consistent?
while I don't "fully" agree with your perspective on ds2's world design being a part of the dementia theme, as im a bigger proponent of the "they didn't have enough time to fix skyboxes after shuffling areas around in the last few weeks before the game came out,they put areaas near each other based on pacing" theory. outside that, the way your interpretation plays into the themes of the game is really interesting. even on first watch I didn't get where mauler was coming from, hbomberguy was just saying his opinion on the game's narrative and he decided to shit on it from a "objective" point of view for...what reason? stories have little "objective value" in them already, art in general, very few things can be labeled as objective in game design, like a rpg having little build variety is arguably an objectively "bad" trait, but this style of thinking really doesn't apply to narrative.
Here's a quote from the Design Works interview: "Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery." Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected." The Art Director stated that they deliberately made the world confusing in order to create mystery. So I'm pretty sure that the themes I'm talking about in this video were added as possible solutions to this mystery.
Well remember H Bomber Guy didnt just hate the game and said some good things so Mauler had to piss and shit himself, quickly rushing to gatekeep liking this game. Hes literally the "STOP HAVING FUN!!!" meme but a real person.
That's an interesting take on the world design; I personally just wrote it off as the world being bigger than what could feasibly be translated into gameplay.
Yeah, it's a byproduct of DS2's development being so borked + it originally intending to be a open world game like Elden Ring. When Tanimura took over there wasn't enough time to make it the way they had originally envisioned, so we got more patchwork world instead. DS2 was actually literally ahead of its time. Screwed by an overly ambitious director and the tech just not being there (the OG lighting was supposed to be like SoTFS but it made the game run at seconds per frame on most hardware at the time). Elden Ring proves it again and again. And speaking of which one of the main complaints I see about ER is that actually traversing from point of interest to point of interest is actually kinda boring. Considering how far across DS2 you actually travel if you compare the fires on stone map in Majula to the places you travel in game, you basically go all over a full on country. Actually walking that on foot would've been awful, I've never minded the transitory areas letting them cheat the space.
@@Graysett Don’t misconstrue my words: I just meant that I play a lot of games where the world is bigger in lore, but is shrunk down for gameplay convenience. Your character is still traveling those large distances, but as a player the travel time is significantly reduced.
@@Hewasnumber1yeah like how in lore the Duke's Archives are on top on the mountain, and once there you can see Anor Londo in the distance, giving you the impression that the places are distant from each other, the corridors and the elevator make it seem like you've travelled far but in reality the distance is VERY short.
The same thing happens in ds1 and ds3. Distances are exaggerated, which is why locations you visit look 5x further away when you see them from majula or similar. Like when you go up the elevators from anor Londo to the Duke's Archives, and from the Archives you see an anor Londo that looks miles away despite you not really going that far It's to keep the play space small for the sake of development and probably also for pacing and not making the players walk the realistic distance, but still giving a sense that you have traveled an epic, enormous journey Elden Ring is really the first game to commit to actually making you go as far as it looks like you have to go to regions in the distance (usually), and the cost of that is an open world that is regularly complained to be "too big" and "a slog to travel".
its pretty simple, you can take these things very literally and they will make no sense but there are things in dialogue and item descriptions that clue you in that things are supposed to be strange and unexplainable i think thats a product of ds1 and ds3 sharing a more grounded and connected narrative and people approaching ds2 in the same way
Mauler es el crítico de todos los tiempos. Si fuera por el te convencería de que el juego tenga rejugabilidad como algo muy malo y que daña la esencia de los Souls.
I love Gilligan's dialogue at Earthen Peak. People who rush the game and bad mouth it will miss that dialogue. Shame, Gilligan has a lot of lore drops.
While this video makes sense and gives an interesting interpretation of some areas, I've always seen the travels between areas as cinematic cut. When you see Heide from Majula, far away, but you need to walk like 1min to go to it, this is like if the travel time was just jump cut, similarly to what would have been done in a movie, where travels are cut if not having anything special to show.
I love how with pretty much every video of yours, I either learn new things or get a new perspective on some aspects of it. This time it was the seemingly "messy" placement of areas. Mostly from critiques, I always thought it was unintended, especially since DS2 had troubles in development. But honestly, I agree with your take and perspective. It really fits the themes of feeling wrong, messing with your mind. Whether it was intended or not, it plays into the themes very well. Perhaps the thing they could have made to make it seem more intended would be to make old area views change when passing certain points (like with Drangleic castle moving, make it so if you go back to check, it's in the "correct" place). But honestly, people who immerse themselves and don't go back to check those details, will be more likely to spot the artistic value of this, be it intended or not.
If they ever do a remake I want them to embrace it even more. For example the elevator up to Iron Keep could still be the same, but you suddenly have some new items in the inventory. If you go back there's a new area that's a underground world that connects the back of the windmill with the vulcano, which your character cleared without you remembering. Or implementing something similar as the confusing looping Dungeon from Elden Ring in the Shulva pyramid.
That last paragraph illustrates quite well why I'm 100% certain that it was in fact only a development fluke. They just used the idea of convoluted space from DS1 and used it as an excuse for why DS2 didn't turn out well world-wise.
@@Domo3000 I agree, although I think best if they didn't change too much in terms of areas for a remake (keep it like DeS remake did - since DS2 already has so much charm). That's why I'm suggesting background changes only, so if you go back, suddenly the areas in the distance are in "correct" spots. It would be very subtle and more likely to confuse the player, since they might brush it off as "bad memory". An additional area that you didn't clear would be way more recognizable since you, as a player, would clearly know that you weren't here. However, the ideas of confusing the player in general would be awesome to explore even more in future games. Leyndell Catacombs were awesome.
@@greibert1447Here's a quote from the Design Works interview: "Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery." Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected." According to the Art Director they deliberately made the world confusing.
I am a huge fan of Dark Souls 2, played that thing for thousands of hours. The problem with the themes and narrative of Dark Souls 2 is that it doesn't stick to those themes. At the end, it is "Dark Souls", which means it prioritizes the themes of cycles, decay and futility- and hope despite this reality. My main criticism of Dark Souls 2 has ALWAYS been that they should've made it its own setting and focused far, far more on the initial themes of *memory*, decay and the relentless march of time. These themes themselves are not bad- the problem is the execution. The problem is, 9o% of the time, the execution. The idea that an elevator leading into a lava lake from below is somehow an amazing iteration of "the world not making sense" is beyond silly. Especially when the rest of the game's maps are... just "normal". The size of the map is squashed down, but other than that it is entirely mundane, save for the monumental spires of stones with the drakes. Imagine if, instead, you went to Heide's Tower of Flame, beat its boss, continued on to Lost Sinner and came back to find the tower reduced to rubble. Aged and weathered to vaguely structured scraps of stone. And as you explore its new geography, you find the underground tunnel sinking further down and leading to a gaping chasm. This is your path to The Gutter, and to The Rotten at the bottom of it. As you progress through the game, the world ages and decays- and, eventually, begins to mix and mesh together. As you continue defeating the major bosses, the maps begin to wear down into ruins, and maybe the world even begins to shrink in on itself, or the individual biomes begin leaking into one another. The Forest of Giants begins getting swallowed up by the fog of the Shaded Woods, eventually leading directly into Pharros' Doors despite initially being nowhere near one another. Eventually, the Tower of Flame might simply merge with and become one with the Lost Bastille, while portions of the bottom-most layers of the prison now lead directly into the Rat King's domain. And, as you reach the end, you begin seeing the ocean recede, and mighty pillars of rock looming on the horizon, with more and more appearing as the Dragon Aerie draws near. At this point, you would have an almost complete dissolution of the map, going from several distinct (yet connected) environs to a singular, shifting mess of attributes from those areas. You could even have NPCs react to this, or take advantage of the evolving geometry to access places previously out-of-reach. Imagine how Cale would handle this, spiraling into madness and eventually resignation and even Hollowing as the map in the basement weathers away until it is just a rock platform. The problem is the execution. The themes are rife with potential, but the way they are handled does them no justice. And simply asserting that because the position of background elements not lining up with geographically accurate distances means the game has good storytelling doesn't mean much. Apologies.
@@Zapdos7471Cycles are part of Ds1, they are more in the subtext. In particular Gwyn killed the dragons, to end of the age of fog to start the age of Fire, we then kill Gwyn to either start an age of dark or to restart the age of Fire
@@firekram there are no cycles in DS1. Gwyn started the age of fire and it's still going ( although fading ) during the events of the game. We can extend the age of fire or let the first flame die and start the age of dark, which would be new to the world at that point.
@@sviniciusbraga There is a cycle in DS1. "A", singular- specifically, in the Linking of the Flame ending, you begin the cycle. Additionally, it is heavily implied that, once Fire sprang into existence and brought with it opposites, The Age of Light would always (eventually) have an opposing "Age of Dark". It is absolutely a lot more subtextual, but it is there nonetheless. Edit: specifically, you begin the cycle of "Dark Souls 1 plot repeating itself to perpetuate the fire", separate from the implied cycle between Light and Dark.
Here's a quote from the Design Works interview: "Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery." Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected."
my older brother will not stop watching mauler. he's already a somewhat negative person and the dudes videos just fucking spew negativity. every time we talk about a new movie i can just feel mauler's words through him. like possession but not really. just parroting. mauler clearly makes high effort content but in every. single. video. he is constantly talking down about others for the entertainment. his comment sections are seriously what i consider to be a highschool lunchtable filled with failing debate club kids.
I get that the cursed undead is developing dementia and losing his mind, but am I really to assume the character suddenly recovered his memory, his sense of self and space and his proper orientation for the three DLCs? Besides they could have developed an NPC that thanks you for doing things you have no memory of doing to hammer the point home, and also make him a straight liar so it'd still be unclear. As the game is right now, it really feels like we have to justify their artistic choices for them.
I think one thing that Dark Souls 2 could have done that would have really nailed the memory loss idea can be taken from the Immersive Portals Mod from Minecraft. Hear me out. Everyone knows the Earthen Peak elevator but how cool would it have been if you walked outside the elevator, only to look back and see something completely different from the elevator. Even better if you could walk back and see an entire area with all the enemies already dead. This kind of visual trickery would really nail the whole "forgetting" theme that makes you question reality.
A lot of thematic and narrative criticsm of DS2 seems to hinge on the idea of authorial intent and how the game's story and lore were affected by its development cycle, rather than engaging with the art for what it does end up communicating, regardless of how much the player wanted it to be DS1
I personally don’t think it takes place in a dream. If it was all a dream then why does the connections between dark souls 2 and 3 exist? The references take place in the same universe as dark souls 3’s but the actual alternate universe being ariamis is still treated like it takes place separately from dark souls 3. It could be argued that ariamis and ariendel are the same world but then that only solidifies that the other universe is in its own universe and not dark souls 3. Furthermore the references to dark souls 1 being in the game make it clear that both games are in the same universe. If the world of dark souls 2 was created by the emerald herald then how come she would be able to know what ornstein looks like or even who the four old ones are? This also would include the old chaos as well. There are to many things pointing to dark souls 2 taking place in the same world as dark souls 1 and 3 for it to all be a dream world
The Duke's Dear Freya, as in the Duke's Archives I.e. Seathe. I feel like it's a bit of a reach to say it's a dream and even still to say it's the player losing their memories or going hollow. We can't know what is intentional and what isn't, although the interviews point to time constraints preventing a lot of what might have been a more cohesive world. Still, perhaps they were trying to imply the player's mind is fading, but there's no way to know for sure without explicit statements from the devs.
@@michaelcarroll5801 the time constraints prevented them from making the world even more nonsensical. Here's a quote from the Design Works interview: "Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery." Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected." They deliberately made the connections nonsensical in order to create mystery.
@@Domo3000 I am only partially convinced, because in the full interview Tanimura, in response to the same question, explicitly states that Iron Keep is a volcanic mountain plateau and that given more time they would have made the geographical connection clearer. So the reality is that it's somewhere between the two extremes; a disorienting and strange world where time and space are warped, where the players mind is fading like all of those around him, but still with more cohesive elements presented in the world. Either way we can only dream of a world where DS2 was fully realised instead of being limited by the release timeline of Bloodborne. BTW this is an old comment, so I have been thinking about it and I definitely think the player is losing their memories like the NPCs around him, but not that Drangleic is a dream. Not sure if you'll see this but thanks for so much interesting discourse around DS2, it's made me think more critically about the games I enjoy. I've put in 100 hours in the last few months of DS2 entirely inspired by your videos pointing out the uncritical, incohesive nature of the majority of DS2 discourse.
Some of his complaints are so specific like the exact position of the Drangleic Tower, bruh, you literally have to go looking for such little things and even if you see them doesnt make a damn difference... Its like if i use my spyglass on Elden Ring to lookt at far away things that dont render at such distance only for me to complain that it isnt loaded even though thr only way for me to notice that is if i went looking in the first place... Some of the scenery not alining perfectly is fine, it looking further than it is to make the world feel larger is fine, Dark Souls 2 is fine, ppl need to stop making stuff up.
I did a few videos debunking his "Scholar ruined DS2" clickbait videos: ua-cam.com/video/8FdMy30_f98/v-deo.html But yeah now that you say it I don't think I did one on his general DS2 video,
@@Domo3000 Damn, even though I looked through the channel I didn't notice it. Thanks. I think he has 2 videos aside from that "scholar ruined it" video. The 2 years old video even has the obligatory "Amana bad" bit. I personally hated it for a long-ish while until I discovered the shields that parry magic and the looking glass shield, magic shield, and the fact that the tracking of those soul arrows stops following you if you do a sharp turn, turning even vanilla Amana into a fun bullet hell section, or trivial walk with those shields. I never see anyone mentioning this.
12:08 That is where most will not be able to continue MauLers video as he is literally just making arguments in favor of the "DS2 is bad" narrative, not making any sense.
can’t believe i got gaslit by this community into thinking i only liked ds2 because it was mY fiRst souLs gaMe. i replayed every single souls and souls like 10’s of times and dark souls 2 still without a shadow of a doubt stands on top of all souls and souls like games as the best one.
Personally, I think everyone's blowing this game out of proportion. It's a decent game, some of the inconsistencies aren't intentional as much as last-minute reworks, which isn't anything new to FromSoftware games as there are usually instances like that in all of their games (though Bloodborne is probably the worst due to the crazy time crunch). I never got everyone's beef with earth peak to the volcano.
Dark Souls II is the bleakest game in the series because its about the very real fear of losing oneself. It's the perfect compliment to DS1's ending of linking the fire, IMO.
The truly overwhelming counter to this whole "laziness" argument (as if it really needs one), in the fact that the earthern peak elevator used to go down to undead crypt. If the designers wanted the connection to iron keep to make geographic sense, or even if they fully didn't care, they could have kept it as-is and just swapped the destinations. Descending an elevator to enter a sunken lava lake is totally sensible and realistic. Instead, they actively put in work to change the layout of the level in order to make it unrealistic. This seems to me like it oBjEcTiVeLy refutes the idea that it's a product of laziness and not a design decision. Of course, that only matters if you have a definition of "objective" that actually means anything. The "objectivity" that Mauler and co. champion so much seems to just amount to "I am a smart person, and smart people care about factual things, so the things I believe are clearly irrefutable facts"
Did you see my pinned comment where the Art Director said the same thing about the elevator going deliberately up in order to create mystery and that he implemented a lot of such moments in the game?
Here's a quote from the Design Works interview:
"Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery."
Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected."
Very interesting quote supporting what you said in the video. I wonder how this connects to the time constraints and cut content.
Well, guess it was intentional after all.
I never doubted it was intentional. It just doesn't seem worth it. As soon as I hit No Man's Wharf I knew that any effort to immerse myself in Drangleic would be undercut by nagging questions that take me out of the experience, so I never viewed it as anything more than a collection of themed video game levels.
@@myb8955 skill issue
@@myb8955 But... you're simply wrong, and it is not a collection, it is indeed intentional. That it didn't hit with you, who's problem this is?
When Aldia said "How will you grapple with this dreadfully twisted world?" I immediately got an ad for pizza. I guess that must be the answer
Pizza and 2 liters of pepsi❤
Domo my king. If you want some sort of credibility to your arguments, you need to split up your video into 6 individual, 4 hour length parts. And you need to talk condescendingly to your audience the entire time. Only then, will your rebutals be accepted into the cultural lexicon.
The problem Mauler and other detractors are having is that DS2 isn't a basic fantasy story about an ancient fight between gods and dragons, but is rather an existential exploration of self - what it means to be human, and how much of that is lost if you take away memory and purpose.
It relies on knowledge of real myth, legend, and psychology that many gamers don't have the cultural intelligence to reference.
The Shining is a fantastic point of comparison, and there are many people who completely miss the messaging in that film too.
Drangliec is a land caught in a constant cycle of empire and ruin, each kingdom being forgotten long before the next is constructed. The people who reside there cannot remember their goals, families, or even themselves.
When you take an elevator up from the top of a windmill and arrive at the base of a lava castle and think "how does this make any sense?" that's EXACTLY how the game wants you to feel.
"How did I get here?" is the entire theme of the narrative.
The game really tries to beat it into your head too. Repeatedly referencing that you will end up somewhere "without really knowing why," characters constantly relating their own stories of dementia...I mean it honestly is legitimately sad that there are people who can play the whole game and still not pick up on the themes at all.
I'm willing to chalk the earthen peak elevator up as a result of rushed development (I believe someone on the dev team basically said as much in an interview), I won't fight people on that one. But things like Heide's tower or Drangleic Castle appearing miles away only for their respective tunnels to take you there in less than a minute - you don't do this stuff by mistake, people talking about how easy it would be to "fix" the skyboxes to better match the gameplay are completely missing that the devs would have had no trouble doing it themselves if they thought it were necessary. the tunnel to the castle even takes you from a slightly overcast midday to a dark stormy night, it's not particularly subtle.
@@TonyTonyRedgraveyeah that's what I'm also thinking. They could have fixed the skybox in an hour if they wanted to for the Scholar release.
@@TonyTonyRedgravethe art director stated that even the transition to Iron Keep is deliberately confusing, as they could have just made it go down underground.
Here's a quote from the Design Works interview:
"Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery."
Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected."
You are giving it too much credit
@Heclemysheckel Even if he might be, that doesn’t change the fact that the weird shifts from location to location is intentional on the part of the devs.
The dreamlike nature was one of the reasons ds2 gripped me so much when I first played thru it.
In a way Mauler's ramblings represent a character perpetually stuck in the world of Drangleic, trying to understand and make logical sense out of convoluted place he has no recollection of. Eight hour video critique, without even knowing the reason why.
Genius
Lol, he got tossed into the Gutter and is maniacally trying to build his way back out.
This is even more brutal than Domo's videos.
Turns out he was a DS2 fanboy all along and was just roleplaying
I mean. We know the reason why. It's to epicly pwn the famous left yewtwuber Harriton Splimby. Once you look at Mauler's "response" as a purely reactive attack on a political opponent it starts to make more sense. Mauler isn't really trying to be correct. He's trying to defeat someone he dislikes.
The thing that makes Mauler's DS2 videos infuriating is that him and his audience genuinely believe that trying to contradict literally *every word and sentence* of Hbomb's video is actually what a good critique is, when it's the most blatant example of a gish gallop you can imagine. This tactic also ends up in him spending a comical amount of time making arguments that make no fucking sense, like him spending like half an hour trying to contest the use of the words "nightmare" or "falling apart" to describe the general structure and environmental storytelling of DS2. That entire section doesn't support his thesis at all, he's literally just bitching about the use of adjectives in a way he didn't like in the most round-about way possible, it's a pointless waste of time.
Once you notice it, you will quickly spot how Mauler's rethoric often boils down to arguing semantics, "oh, you used the word X? Well I define the word X this way, therefore you are wrong and I'm objectively correct". This snippet is a great example of his modus operandi in action: 12:05.
"Oh you used the word *inconsistency* to refer to the fact DS2's world is deliberately trying to evoke a feeling of dread and confusion? Well too bad because I define *inconsistency* as a synonym of something being bad and not thought out properly, therefore you are actually saying DS2 is badly designed, I objectively win this argument."
How can anyone take Mauler and his cohort as serious critics is beyond me.
He's contesting the deliberacy. Rightfully so.
"trying to contradict literally every word and sentence of a video about a game I like is bad"
Yeah just like how dark souls 2's world doesn't make sense because of the themes of your character having dementia, true criticism of someone's video game opinions needs to be spread out over a dozen video in non-linear order with a sarcastic robot voice (which also fits the themes of the game since DS2 feels like it was AI generated)
@@saysalla the world of DS2 has a very strong theme of a person's journey through life and all the ways they can lose their humanity.
I mean, c'mon, the twix between is literally shaped like you're coming out of a dark place into the bright, overwhelming world through a big vertical slit and the final boss is basically Grimm Reaper. And most bosses have various themes of corruption and mental disorders symbolizing the way a life can go wrong.
All you need is just to be open-minded about things you dive into instead of being stuck in your rigid pre-made schematics. It's like visiting another country, spending the entire visit in your hotel room watching crappy TV shows about the place, then leaving and telling everyone that the country was crap despite you never actually giving it a fair chance.
Also, have you ever considered that Domo is making his response series in parts because listening to people like Mauler is unironically mentally taxing? When you have your own brain and ability to think critically, not be affected by manipulation and rhetorical malice, listening to such bs becomes simply painful. I honestly applaud Domo's patience because I personally wouldn't stand even 10 minutes of Mauler's or HBomber's rant.
It also doesn't help that Mauler's mentality reminds me of myself when I was a teen and I remember how miserable and empty that lifestyle was. I also was an insufferable and boring person to be around but couldn't see it through the disguise of pseudo-intelligence. So I judge Mauler from an insight point of view as well.
MauLer is the definition of missing the forest for the trees.
@@saysalla I can't even tell whether you mean Domo or Mauler
The point about there being a lot of dragons isn’t very subtle is just asinine. What does that even mean? Why would this part need to be subtle? Subtlety shouldn’t even be a point of contention here at all. I swear, so many people have “subtlety” brainrot. Being subtle isn’t always the best. These people certainly aren’t very subtle about how much they love subtlety.
That last comment you made has got to be the best roast so far I seen
My favorite part is the fact that he's all about subtlety *until* it gets to the part where Mauler needs to parse through the actual themes of the video game he's spent *10 hours* reviewing.
Some incredible irony on display by him. I couldn't make something more blatantly ironic if I tried.
But really, even if it isn't a pocket dimention, it still makes sense that the world would be weirder than Dark Souls 1, when
a) So many kindoms have risen and fallen where dranglaic stands
b) Vendrick which was supossed to link the flame, didn't to avoid giving access to Nashandra, leaving the flame weaker than in ds1 thus the world being more fucked
AND even if it isn't either, the insconsistencies add to the sense of forgetfulness and doubt that the game is giving to you if you pay attention, and if you are not, well you won't notice, like I didn't notice in my first playthrough
Mauler has so little imagination and wonder he fixates on such a specific cone of definition for “nightmare”
Slowly losing your mind and sense of self while repeatedly dying against giant monsters does not count as real certified horror.
@@Domo3000
Mauler: "...to be perfectly honest, stuffing a level with [many dragons] isn't exactly subtle. I prefer a more subdued approach, myself, but that's not something we're discussing here so let's continue." (14:11)
Also Mauler: "[The level design]'s boring, but it's consistent. Areas take after each other one by one connected by very weak, corridor-like structures. There is no melting into each other, like you would see in _The Evil Within_ , _Alan Wake_ , or _Alice_ : _The Madness Returns_ , which are actual games about nightmarish content." (6:14)
He keeps alluding he's got such a sophistocated palette and 10k IQ with all his objective thoughts and opinions, but quite literally takes 9 hours to constantly complain about how he needs his hand to be held to take in the level design, themes, and story.
Edit: fixed typo and italics not working because youtube is weird about formatting
@@Crappy9922 carzy to make examples of games that dont try to be subtle about the horror lmao
“noooo not muh heckin unassailable rollslop I’m going insane!!!!” lmao
@@buzzworddujourwhat is the point that you're trying to make, exactly?
Plot twist: Mauler is trapped inside drangleic and can't get out 😢
he went hollow (w/o even knowing why)
And he'll be damned if anyone tells him he can have a good time about it.
imagine finishing dark souls 2 and thinking "yep, the themes and narratives in this game are objectively bad" LOL
imagine finishing dark souls 2 instead of accepting that you got scammed and dropping it to play something better.
@@saysalla imagine thinking that there are better games than DS2.
It's easy, plenty of people read entire books without having understood a single word.
@@saysalla imagine finishing it 20+ times and loving it ...
Wait, i already did that 😅
@@saysalla imagine having parents who are siblings
Honey wake up DS2 goat just uploaded
You know, in the very beginning I thought it was kinda funny… but at this point, I literally CANNOT listen to MauLer’s smug, arrogant and condescending tone of voice when talking about (more like belittling tbh) DS2 or hbomberguy. How anyone can sit through those 9 videos of his, which all average around 1h watch time, is absolutely beyond me.
MauLer is genuinely one of the most insufferable people on UA-cam. He sounds like this in every single video and “podcast” of his and it makes sitting through his content unbearably annoying.
I honestly feel sorry for Mauler. I might know how bland and cold his life must have been for him to turn out so objectivity-obsessed and machine-like, as well as very fixated on snobbish hatred and patronizing. Fortunately, in my life, there was a caring person to save me from going that direction.
The worst part is he's not even _actually_ objective in any way. It's just a meaningless word he throws around as a way to try and give bad arguments more weight, and as if works of art aren't often _defined_ by their subjective value/meaning to the viewer.
@@joshwenn989 art is literally all subjectivity. Even laws of physics aren't 100% objective as people keep finding out that the deeper you go on the universe scale, the less consistently the ones we know work.
@@kaschey6145 Just imagine Mauler ranting about how our reality is badly designed because when you go down to the atomic level, the laws of the universe (that we know of) start breaking apart lol
Also like. Let's say, hypothetically, that art is objective. I'm not. I'm subjective, and I like things for subjective reasons. So why should I care that one movie is objectively better if I like a different movie more?
@@cowhale2488 it's objectively bad that we can not measure the position and speed of an electron at the same time
You are making my love of dark spuls 2 even greater than it already is. My goat
Yeah I used to think dark souls 2 was kind of shit but after watching a bunch of domo videos I now think it's a masterpiece because as a dark souls 2 fan I need someone on the internet to tell me what my opinions are.
@@saysalla I think you're describing DS2 haters not DS2 fans.
@@saysalla overwhelming hate from people like Mauler and their cultist fanboys makes new players afraid and hesitant to give DS2 a fair chance. Domo doesn't even advertise DS2 that much - he mostly just debunks BS around this game.
FINALLY someone says this! It annoys me so much that so many in the DS community take these games so literally. Don't show Mauler Picasso's paintings or he's gonna make another 10 hour objective critique about how they make basic design mistakes. DS1 was already big on the themes of memory/personality loss and DS2 beautifully takes this idea further. It is a surreal masterpiece. There are so many hints given to the player, as nicely collected in your video. It blows my mind that this went over so many people's heads, you just need to pay a little attention to notice... But then again, the same could be said about the enemy placement, adaptability and all that other good stuff. The world honestly does not deserve this game.
ok, I'm pissed off about what mauler says at 10:15 ish. He somehow doesn't get that hbomb is using a metaphor when he says that 'the world is falling apart'. He doesn't mean that it is literally, physically decaying, but it is ceasing to make sense, that space itself is coming apart at the seams. How does someone miss this.
Mauler: "I prefer more subtle approaches myself"
Also Mauler: unless the world is literally ripped into pieces reality is not falling apart
Dark souls 2’s second strongest warrior is back (im #1)
I used to think I was #1 but then domo very solidly took that title from me
I have to say, the video he made of ds2 was 6 years old, and 3 years after that, he reviewed The Father, a movie about a man with dementia, and he praised it for many of the things he missed out on in DS2. I'd like to imagine he started to pick up on it in DS2. The film has many of the same elements that he praises, constantly changing scenery, character recontextualization (not in DS2 iirc), just about everything from DS2 in regards to its dementia-like state.
But the scenery isn't constantly changing in DS2. It is always the same. If they wanted "shifting scenery" they could've actually done that by having objects that pop in or pop out, timed colour changes, etc.
The place you are in DS2 is real. Confirmed in DS3. Your character having memory loss doesn't change that. I think, once again, "time is convoluted" is doing comical amounts of heavy lifting.
It is fine to like Dark Souls 2 and agree that Iron Keep was poorly conveyed. It doesn't really impact the game all that much, anyway.
Dragn Aerie is a bit harder to sort out. Could've been solved by having the imps fly you there instead of an elevator. Again, doesn't REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things. They put elevators there, because video game. 🤷♂️
It really wasn't some kind of grand 4D-philosophy-chess-3000iq-Kantian-quantum-genius. They just had to finish their product.
@@shemsuhor8763drangleic existed, yes, but it doesn't anymore by the time you arrive, it's the reason why in the intro there was the reflection of drangleic on the lake, but in it's place in the real world there were only debris and ruins, drangleic doesn't exist anymore, were we play in DS2 is more of a construct made because of the curse
Earthen Peak is specifically related to Angels. The Grave Wardens populating it are originally from the Undead Crypt where there can be found images of Cherubs.
Also, the "fans" of the Sorceresses are actually supposed to be hand-mirrors (the ♀ symbol represents Venus' hand-mirror). Note also the name Mirrah (capital of Lindelt) being a corruption of Mirror and Myra (city-state in Asia Minor), similar to Leydia being a corruption of Ley, Lady and Lydia (kingdom in Asia Minor).
Additionally, the Mirror Knight has angel wings etched on his back.
I believe the idea is that the Sorceresses communed with angels via the mirrors, similar to how the Crystal Sages used their Crystal Balls (the court sorceror set (DS3) resembles Sir Edward Kelly's garb and includes scrying crystals; Kelly and John Dee supposedly spoke to angels through a mirror).
Indeed, the gargoyles of the Profaned Capital and Grand Archives are stone Angels, but I digress.
I guess I'll also mention that I believe the Milfanito are based on Cherubim. (Angels of Song, to contrast with the Demon of Song)
Throne Watcher and Throne Defender symbolise an angel and a dragon.
Primordial Serpents (Watchdragons) seem related to Seraphim and Original Giants seem based on Nephilim (offspring of Humans and angels)
Thrones are actually a class of Angels too.
Keep going I'm not finished reading yet bro lol. Just spit it all out this is gold knowledge
I never did consider DS2 toying with the idea of memory degradation beyond individual characters. When really thinking about how the world of Drangleic feels like a very messy, surreal, and even demented place being the consequence of a dream world, or the product of a degrading imagination, it does make more sense for it to be the way it is.
I picked up on that theme when I first played DS2 as a depressed teenager in 2014 lol
How did you miss that bro 😭😭 its the point of the game
@@Krutonkreatura I pay very little attention to lore. I at least can admit that, unlike Objective Opinion Man 🤣
@@user-pn4px5lr8w the intro cinematic hints at it
Every FromSoft Soulslike (not counting Sekiro) plays on the mystery world disconnected from other places and structured in weird ways that shift. In Demon's Souls it was explained by the fog which was then used as a gameplay meachnic in every subsequent game, in Dark Souls one Solaire openly tells you about it early in the game and the DLC even takes you back in time, in DS2 there's everything that you talked about in this video, Bloodborne directly tackles the topic of dreams and nightmares, Dark Souls 3 openly shows you the lands shifting and converging in endgame and DLC, Elden Ring's world is straight up called the Lands Between, with the Elden Ring which contained the rules of this world being a malleable thing now shattered, and the Land of Shadow being a distinct other realm sort of parallel to the main game one
In the intro of dark souls 2, you can see how the player enters the Drangleics pocket dimension.
Are we to assume we are being taken to another dimension? Or is it possible the portal was simply teleportation? NPCs talk about how they came from other lands e.g. Maughlin talks about his homeland and how he ended up in Majula.
@@michaelcarroll5801Wherever the flame is creates essentially a little pocket dimension where time and space is warped so I would say yes
Dark souls 2 tries to make you feel the way the hollows do dying over and over again and slowly forgetting what happened
I know it's kinda a meme in MauLer's group to accuse him of this... but i genuinely think he has a lack of grasp when it comes to more abstract concepts in art like the ones you presented.
Its like if it isn't either super tangible like 1:1 real world rules OR, there's nuance and room for interpretation in how the world and setting fits together... then it simply must be bad.
This is especially frustrating with his critique of DS2's setting/world as he keeps talking in a spiral of nonsensical drivel. Almost like a bad rant over why he just didnt like it. But since he can talk in a slower and more restrained way and has a fancy accent he *sounds* like he knows what he's talking about.
At this point I could only attribute malice to all these 5+ hours of DS2 slander.
He might have a hate bone to pick with Harris' vid. But its like he just wanted to be a contrarian to Harris and DS2 was caught in the crossfire
Here's a quote from the Design Works interview:
"Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery."
Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected."
According to the Art Director the nonsensical connections were implemented as a deliberate way of creating confusion.
So I'm pretty sure that the themes I'm talking about in this video where created as possible solutions for this mystery.
Instead of even considering that it could be a deliberate mystery Mauler just went ahead and ignored all those themes and just called it lazy instead - and yet he considers himself to be a qualified art critic.
Mauler would blow his top off trying to read Berserk, I think he praises berserk but doesnt realise ds2 is the closest thing to berserk gaming has ever done besides the shitty berserk game lmao.
The abstract themes and levels of reality would send him into a straightjacket, you bring up the interstice and its all over for him
The emerald herald sounds different when you're in the Dragon's aerie. The lines were most likely intended to be used with the child model. If From fully followed through with all of that i think that would have really beaten into some people's head that time and space are convoluted.
shame we didn't get it. from the design works, she looks adorable. just makes you want to ruffle her hair and call her kiddo.
My first comment was a joke, now after watching the video I would say that recalling my first playthrough I did not feel like the worlds was poorly put together, and felt amazed at each new area, however I do think that the game could have leaned more into the reality breaking, maybe with more npcs trying and falling to recall where were they last in their questline (last location) or for example in the souls of the lords saying something about them externalizing their power through their geographical surroundings. Lastly I completely agree with the drangleic castle tunnel, first time playing it really felt like I was traveling into another world, like the castle itself was recluded into a completely different reality and what we saw from majula was an illusion, it really helped to make it be the climax of the story.
Could have also done some more "there's a cool place over way off in the distance" then you round a corner and you're there
@@andrewwestfall65 if I understand correctly the story behind DS2, they literally couldn't, they realized that they were to ambitious to far in too development and so then they went the other way, limitations like that can make you find workarounds that end up being core part of the experience like mist in silent hill
I think the ultimate irony of DS2 and the hate it receives is that the plot is focused on you as the player. I get the sense gamers who generally use video games as an escape from their reality into a virtual power fantasy recognize this on a subconscious level and it causes a sort of cognitive dissonance. Most people won't ever admit that they hate themselves let alone begin to take steps towards loving themselves.
I do think DS2's unshaking commitment to melancholy and futility does alienate some... less literary inclined players (which there's nothing wrong with). But that makes it stand out, even in the souls series.
Read a book people! 😂
"If you don't like the game i like it's because you hate yourself"
The mind of a dark souls 2 fan
@@saysalla Well, DS2 haters must definitely have a miserable life if they consider it their duty to f*ck the brains of anyone who says something good and not false about a game they don’t like
You’re absolutely correct. Dark Souls 2 is the only Souls game interested in being anything more than a masturbatory power fantasy. FromSoftware is generally no better than Bethesda in that they are solely interested in entertaining a players violent desires rather than examining them through subversion.
If this truly is your last vid on debunking MauLer's terrible vids then i just want to thank you for the amazing work! 🙏
It was been so refreshing seeing someone who actually care about DS2 and can show off just how wrongly treated it has been simply for not being DS1.
I read a very compelling reddit post illustrating the similarities between DS2's world and characters, and H.P. Lovecraft's "The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath". Its not unusual given the other Lovecraftian elements in the series.
Drangleic Castle is very much like how Lovecraft describes some of the buildings in his stories too. With the inky black stone and such.
Please, post the link or the post title. That sounds like an interesting read and I don't like scrolling through reddit.
@@aroukar47 Lovecraft, Dark Souls 2, and Bloodborne posted on /r/DarkSouls2 by /u/Wandering_Scarabs
"Lovecraft, Dark Souls 2, and Bloodborne" by Wandering_Scarabs posted on the DarkSouls2 subreddit
@@timefades27 Thank you.
Having DS2 explained as another pocket dimension makes so much sense to me, especially when moving onto DS3 where both DLCs are in pocket dimension, then a time warp. This also reinforces that in the DS universe everything happens on the same cycle over and over again.
I think the references to dark souls 2 in dark souls 3 disprove this theory because the actual pocket dimension, ariamis and ariendel, are still treated like pocket dimensions while things like literally earthen peak being in dark souls 3 prove that the lands of dark souls 2 did exist in the same world as dark souls 3 and even 1. The giant tree is also another great example. Yhorm is also described as a descendant of an ancient, giant conqueror which eludes to him being a descendant of the giant lord. I think the theory of dark souls 2 being a pocket dimension is cool but I personally think that all the references between the games point to dark souls 2 being set in the same world as its brother games
@@gingerknight4753 Things betwix is the connection between drangleic and the OUTSIDE WORLD
Dark Souls 2 was my least favorite to play. However, I have a lot of respect for the game because it was far more ambitious and made a lot more interesting choices than Dark Souls 3.
true
Why can't more souls community be like you?
@@vanilla.icescream Most of them are, if you were to take a cross-section of the community at large you would realize basically nobody is actually like this and ds2 vs ds3 drama online is just two vocal minorities whining about a victimhood complex
Surprise surprise, the guy who legitimately thinks art can be judged objectively doesn't like how Drangleic is intentionally obtuse and disorderly
He talks about “measurable functionality in a product” like he’s reviewing a fucking lawnmower
You can judge objective aspects of art, him missing the point of DS2's themes and narratives doesn't disprove that.
@@WyattStrange thats not a good example of art having "objective qualities" something like game balancing has less nuance to talk about, more variety in an rpg isbetter then less, no matter how you slice it.
@@WyattStrange Fans of Jackson Pollock might disagree with that bro. MauLer often looks at objective elements, mostly focused on plot/plot inconsistencies, and gives value judgements based on the things that are present. He can very myopic at times which is just exacerbated by the laser focus and extended criticism that he's known for.
@@teiull9388 Is more variety necessarily better if it's "junk" variety? A good example would be the number of weapons in LotF, there are a lot but every weapon class has the same moveset is basically just a reskinned version of any other weapon in that class. You could say it's a positive in itself but there's a negative that comes with it that outweighs that positive.
Our strongest DS2 warrior strikes again
I just realized in the beginning of the intro the guy (player?) in the background falls down then everything else plays. It could be a dream or a hallucination produced due to hollowing. He dreams of getting up and sinking then ending up in a Drangleic. In Bloodborne its implied that the hunter might be dreaming for whatever reason, they might have been ill in the real world. Dark Souls 3 also continues with convoluted timeline so my guess is that after Dark Souls 1 the hollowing got worse and some started dreaming about being heroes and what not. Or their soul got pulled out in a pocket dimension by firekeepers in order to be protected or cleansed.. Just my thought's tho..
Great video. It was the complete dismissal of DS2's themes and narratives that initially clued me into the fact that the popular DS2 critics were really off the mark in their analyses.
I think this makes for an exceptional swan song to your Mauler rebuttal series. Really it is the complete misunderstanding of the themes of a highly thematic game that represents the nail in the coffin of his critique.
Didn't knew there was still Mauler content
Whatever criticisms one can make of mauler, he does actually say different things in his 5+ hour videos, he's not very repetitive. In cases where hes right that means a lot of detail as to why. when hes wrong though... thats a lotta wrong things o.o
My man thought his 9 hour series was un-toppleable
@@timefades27It still is, I've yet to see a genuine argument supporting ds2 that doesnt boil down to "the game you like is also bad therefore the game i like is good 😭"
@saysalla Try playing the game and it might help you understand some of the "supporting arguments"
@@saysallaBias much? You know that isn't true. The chances of you not running into a single "4 ring slots, you can take off strong rings without having to fear them breaking like the RFP, more armour and weapon variety, bonfire ascetics, more interactions between equipment (can parry magic, shield that straight up sends it flying away and can turn it against the caster) which is a complete improvement, more magic variety a not by a little bit, expanded ranged options between bow-crossbow weapon classes and even consumables becoming viable, elemental damage scaling, THE AMAZING MAGIC SPICE MECHANIC LETTING 1 INT BUILDS USE MAGIC FOR ROLEPLAYING IF THEY WANT, the lore still manages to be interesting and thoughtful even If the development was a shitshow making the whole process of learning it 1000x more impressive even with its sporadic gaping info voids, P.O.W.E.R.S.T.A.N.C.I.N.G. , more variety in where you want to go at the beginning of the game and more access to weapons at the very start, many unique things only DS2 does (look at limitbreakers video for info), an actual NG+ experience, etc." Argument is next to 0.
I can go on for a while but you get the point.
I strongly believe there is a 0 chance of you not finding a single one of these pieces of information showing DS2 is a fine game, and a fine souls game too in the wild.
Just ask me if you need more.
Closing with that statement really doesn't show you in a good light.
I don't think I agree with the whole of Drangleic being a pocket dimension. Drangleic exist(ed) in the real world too, the Old Crone says as such in the intro cutscene. NPCs like Bernhart and Lucatiel don't appear to have crossed time to get here as they mention concrete directions they have come from like "distant East" and "Far East," they traveled over land to get to Drangleic. Things Betwixt is a limbo link between Space and Time to bring you and the players into the past to this particular point in the fall of Drangleic. You seemingly arrive through the structure in the Garden, that is the exit portal. The entrance to the portal was the lake. If you look at the structure in the garden it should look familiar, they appear in 3 other places in the game, next to Grandahl who uses them to create portals to the Dark Chasm of Old. They appear to be conduits for spatial magic.
I keep thinking the mauling of mauler is over, yet Domo keeps destroying this man without even breaking a sweat again and again... Truly built different.
rewatching this video and god damn, it feels like MauLer is practically incapable of abstract thinking. I think MauLer could personally decimate the whole essence of my being if he ever talked about Twin Peaks.
Although zullie the witch has pointed out the mismanagement of ds2’s corporate handling lead to certain things about its world design and time travel plot being dropped, with the salamander cave being theorized to be the original route to iron keep. I feel like the current structure of the world does a better job of presenting the themes of it.
With the series not only refusing to reject that design which could be seen as a flaw, but making it a active plot point of the deteriorating world of dark souls in ds3. Once again proving the significance of ds2 to the soulsborne series. With Miyazaki only regret for ds2 being that he should have let it do its own thing, which conflits with the “B team” idea people have for this game.
Ds2 certainly has some of the best thematic elements in the series. With a much more personal and dark story in comparison to its siblings that focus more on the world at large.
Jesus Christ the cope is real
@@greibert1447you're the one coping bud
>Y-you don't understand!!! DS3 GOOD DS2 BAD!!!!
My favorite is the way critics attempt to downplay the themes and content in dark souls 3 that came from DS2 when in reality DS3 is chock-full of references to DS2 and they just never actually played it or at the very least payed attention.
Actually DS3 bad and DS2 good 🤓
Actually DS3 is bad, DS2 is bad, Dark Souls is goated
Actually Dark Souls is good, DS2 is good, and DS3 is good
But the B Team!
15:03 mauler literally fights an npc and thinks its another player, if that isn't proof he's talking out his ass i don't know what is
also he pulled the lever that tells you 7 times not to💀
mauler is just an idiot
Its the same with the champions covenant which tells you straight up the game will rek you. Join said covenant and then proceed to whine why enemies rek you and call DS2 to hard.
Every time you upload I open ds2 and play it for three hours
Sometimes mauler is hard to listen to without getting frustrated thank you for the work Domo
I've said this before and I'll say it again: critics like Mauler are so hyperfixated on "critiquing" every aspect of a piece of media, that they're incapable of seeing anything beyond the surface level of a work of art. They miss the forest for the trees, and with Mauler specifically, it's at such a large and blatantly disingenuous manner that it borders on just being malicious for the sake of it. What good intentioned individual goes on for 9 hours trying to tell someone they're wrong for enjoying a piece of media or art because it's "objectively bad"? Let alone, more recently, going on Twitter rants because he was merely given a passing mention in a video about long form media criticism, is proof enough that he himself believes he is above criticism. But others? Fair game for him.
Art is subjective. It isn't objectively good or bad. It's entirely dependent on how the individual consuming it interprets it. That's something Mauler, and others like him, fail to wrap their heads around. Art doesn't have to conform to any logical structure or rigid criteria to have value to someone. That's what makes art... Art. We all gleam something different from it. Whether good, bad, thought provoking, vapid, brilliant, self-indulgent, or anything in between. Mauler can't think beyond the bare minimum of the surface to even entertain such a thought about media or art in general.
And it's sad that so many view him as a professional in this. He's less than amateurish.
I don't think it's fair to lump all long form criticisms under one umbrella. Patrician TV's long analysis of The Elder Scrolls 3/4/5 are amazing pieces of work. We need good critics that care about the quality of whatever medium they cover to help people understand what they really want from the art they enjoy.
To palm off all forms of critique under the banner of "art is subjective" (whether or not that is the case regardless of the vast philisophical implications of making such an assertion about the nature of art), is a bit short sighted in my mind. It is the analysis of art that gives it its value, without discussion and criticism all we have left is a tree falling in the woods and nobody around to hear if it really made a sound.
@@michaelcarroll5801 I wasn't specifically calling out all long form critics. There are some good ones. Noah Caldwell Gervais being a good example, in my opinion. I have barely any experience from Patrician TV, and what experience I've heard has been quite mixed, so can't speak there. It's just that the space has become over saturated with many who have tried to mimic Mauler's success, which has led to pretty bad and bad faith criticism of art and media.
You can criticize art, that's not what I'm denying. It's how you go about doing so is the primary issue. A broken game that doesn't work properly is a flaw to be criticised. Or a movie or TV show with uninteresting characters or wooden acting. Aspects of a piece of art can be criticized. The art piece as a whole is open to criticism. The processes behind its creation can be criticized. All things are, and it's good to be critical of the art we consume. But not all people view aspects of criticism the same, and that's what people like Mauler fail to see. Believing that their own opinion about the piece is the correct interpretation of it, whether they got details about it right or wrong, or were blatantly disingenuous about how they framed their criticism.
Also, of course, art and media that push something genuinely dangerous are free reign for criticism. Propaganda, misinformation, dangerous ideologies, etc. It's a bit more nuanced than I made it come across as, and I'm definitely sorry for coming off that way.
@@Stellos812thanks for elaborating, I definitely misunderstood your point. Critics like Mauler definitely put the cart before the horse; they assume the worst and because of this assumption they bring a massive confirmation bias.
I can understand not liking Mauler, but it's important to remember that his DS2 videos weren't critiquing DS2, he's addressing Hbomber's arguments and points about the game.
@michaelcarroll5801 the difference is that Patrician is someone who actually plays video games and can tell an objective screw up like a broken quest or a mechanic or system being dumbed down.
Every day I wake up grateful MauLer didn't reach me during my edgy teenage phase that he apparently failed to grow out of. The whole "objectivity in art" angle he tries to sell is such horseshit and so nonsensical it could only appeal to literal children.
I would like to give a shoutout to him for poking holes in his own logic three times a minute though. From "the game doesn't present the world as being strange, it's all just corridors" to "look at how Aldia's keep clips through a 3D map of the game you can only access with debug tools, how amateur" is embarrassing. This is what happens when you are convinced every word you say is gold and lost your backspace key, infinite blabbering.
"It also seems that MauLer is some kind of robot"
Heh.
I think the “real world” is actually the painted world, one that has successfully survived free from the curse for years until Aldia started messing with things
I love the fever dream aesthetic of the layout of the lands between. Mauler's willful ignorance can only be attributed to malice.
Do you mean Things Betwixt, or maybe just Drangleic?
Because the Lands Between is Elden Ring.
@@Acorn_Anomaly Elden Ring is just Dark Souls 2 II but yeah Things Betwixt lol
Years ago I watched dozens of hours of Mauler's content, and I can't think of a single instance in which Mauler demonstrated the kind of insight that Domo does in this single, 15 minute video. Mauler is someone who doesn't make video games, yet somehow insists that there's a _correct_ way to make games. He also seems to be someone who doesn't write, but has no shortage of opinions about how themes _should_ be implemented.
Mauler seems to lack a core component of effective criticism; namely, he seems to be completely disconnected from the work itself and solely concerned with justifying his knee-jerk, intellectual responses. I'm starting to wonder whether Mauler could even tell you _why_ he dislikes something on an emotional level, rather than just listing off 'objective flaws' that he Dunning-Krugered into existence. That's why his criticism of movies and shows always devolves into character decision making-- about whether something a character did was 'realistic'-- because he doesn't have the skill or understanding to actually express how a work of fiction makes him _feel_, let alone identify with emotionally-driven themes and characters.
"Mauler isn't a video game developper so he isn't allowed to say bad things about the video game I like 😭"
I don't need to be a professional 5 Michelin star world renowned chef to have the culinary experience required to perceive that the chef shat in my plate, I'll just leave a bad review on yelp and go eat somewhere else instead of spending a decade pretending the diarrhoea enhances the flavour but only for people who have a palate refined enough to appreciate it.
@@saysalla yea man, me myself personally I LOVE Capra Demon and the three Asylum Demons and the army of Taurus Demons guarding the Chaos Ember, DS1 is OBVIOUSLY the bestest game ever with zero flaws whatsoever!!!!!
@@saysalla 👍
@@inexplicablepresence8274 Why is it that dark souls 2 fans are so insecure they are entirely unable to defend their favorite game without trashing DS1?
@@saysalla then why are the DS2 haters such hypocrites that they don’t notice the same problems in DS1 and DS3, attributing them exclusively to the second part.
It's funny to me that video games give us a unique opportunity to make truly impossible spaces; and when we do, people like mauler get upset.
Maybe he's just mad that the game gaslighting him made him feel 'weak'.
Ds2 doesn't really do much to make impossible spaces though
Earthen Peak is supposed to be at the base of a volcano containing the Iron Keep. It's just poorly communicated in game
The travel distances being shorter is a game play decision / time constraint on development
The goal is to make the world look and feel bigger, which the game succeeds at
@@firekramHere's a quote from the Design Works interview:
"Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery."
Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected."
To me, it really looks like they deliberately made the world confusing and added these themes as possible solutions for the mystery.
Wait so Dark Souls 2 is all a dream created by Shanalotte? No wonder we're so floaty
I suppose my only defense for what MauLer said for this (even foregoing how much of DS2 I love and appreciate) is that we are naturally assuming that the contrived, convoluted and misleading nature of DS2's world design was intentional by the developers, and not as a result of time, pressure and being half cocked with the B-team of FromSoft, things that are naturally true about DS2's design as far back as the initial beta.
You mentioned the DLC of Dark Souls 3 that reintroduces Earthen Peak along with the jagged, nonsensical placement of buildings, and in that sense, I feel that WAS intentional design by the devs to really illustrate the convoluted nature of Dark Souls' world. Even the fight arena with Soul of Cinder illustrates this nicely. I never really get that same feeling with Dark Souls 2 in terms of it's design, even if I understand the nature of losing one's self of purpose and struggle.
That all being said, whether or not the design of these world was intentional or not, whether they overlap in certain places or don't support a thru-line, I don't think any of this is a huge knock against the game even if it's going against DS1's incredibly intricate level design philosophy, since ultimately gameplay will outshine any nonsensical level design.
Here's a quote from the Design Works interview:
"Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery."
Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected."
@@Domo3000 I feel like saying 'we wanted to give the player something curious and unexpected' is not the same through line of trying to give a demented, dream like experience that you are trying to convey.
@@somethingguy912the video you‘re commenting under has a high number of examples of NPCs speaking about losing their memory and the world being full of madness and nonsense. How does this not speak for the world design being nonsensical intentionally?
I do think this overlapping is not exactly intentional, but I wouldn't call it lazy, if you know the stories of development of this game they performed a miracle to get it out on time and being a decent game that improved with patches and later Scholar
scholar feels like a mod, ds2 original enemy placement was smarter and more tactful. They just throw a shitload of enemies at you in sotfs for no reason, like when I play through iron keep I regularly have alonne knights falling into the lava because they walk into each other and body block their own pathing lol
@@TheArnoldification I've heard similar critics to scholar recently, I didn't play it so I can't refute you, my cousin really likes scholar, but honestly having played base version (Fully patched) I wouldn't change a thing, I really liked it how it is
@@bloody_dagger819 its really a mixed bag, personally I think it's worse overall because a lot of stuff was changed for the sake of change. For example, there are way more statues you need to use fragrant branches on now and a good amount of them are basically bait so you waste them such as blocking off the main path to the ruin sentinels. I find all it really does is encourage you to not explore areas that you might've otherwise but the reward is not enough to justify the tedium in finding another branch.
The thing I like most about it is probably how they integrated finding the DLC keys into loot you have to find in the world, although some people hate this feature because they are somewhat difficult to find when playing through blind.
Also, idk if this got patched but when sotfs came out weapons would break twice as fast because it was framerate dependent and sotfs boosts the fps cat from 30 to 60. You could break a katana in like 3 swings if you angled it a certain way on a corner lol
apparently solaire says that time is stagnent not convoluted (according to a good friend of mine)
Interesting, I thought Straid's dialogue implied that Drangleic was built on top of civilizations that were built on top of Lordran, hence why you can find the souls of Gwyn, Seath, Nito etc etc etc from the main bosses... But this video seems to imply that Drangleic is like the Painted World of Ariamis... How do these two things become consistent?
while I don't "fully" agree with your perspective on ds2's world design being a part of the dementia theme, as im a bigger proponent of the "they didn't have enough time to fix skyboxes after shuffling areas around in the last few weeks before the game came out,they put areaas near each other based on pacing" theory. outside that, the way your interpretation plays into the themes of the game is really interesting. even on first watch I didn't get where mauler was coming from, hbomberguy was just saying his opinion on the game's narrative and he decided to shit on it from a "objective" point of view for...what reason? stories have little "objective value" in them already, art in general, very few things can be labeled as objective in game design, like a rpg having little build variety is arguably an objectively "bad" trait, but this style of thinking really doesn't apply to narrative.
Here's a quote from the Design Works interview:
"Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery."
Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected."
The Art Director stated that they deliberately made the world confusing in order to create mystery. So I'm pretty sure that the themes I'm talking about in this video were added as possible solutions to this mystery.
@@Domo3000 interesting, so it is exacly as you said, i guess the "rushed" part is not making the world even more nonsensical.
Well remember H Bomber Guy didnt just hate the game and said some good things so Mauler had to piss and shit himself, quickly rushing to gatekeep liking this game. Hes literally the "STOP HAVING FUN!!!" meme but a real person.
DS2 bad because Mauler said so
But mauler Is an idiot 😊
That's an interesting take on the world design; I personally just wrote it off as the world being bigger than what could feasibly be translated into gameplay.
Yeah, it's a byproduct of DS2's development being so borked + it originally intending to be a open world game like Elden Ring. When Tanimura took over there wasn't enough time to make it the way they had originally envisioned, so we got more patchwork world instead.
DS2 was actually literally ahead of its time. Screwed by an overly ambitious director and the tech just not being there (the OG lighting was supposed to be like SoTFS but it made the game run at seconds per frame on most hardware at the time). Elden Ring proves it again and again. And speaking of which one of the main complaints I see about ER is that actually traversing from point of interest to point of interest is actually kinda boring. Considering how far across DS2 you actually travel if you compare the fires on stone map in Majula to the places you travel in game, you basically go all over a full on country. Actually walking that on foot would've been awful, I've never minded the transitory areas letting them cheat the space.
@@Graysett Don’t misconstrue my words: I just meant that I play a lot of games where the world is bigger in lore, but is shrunk down for gameplay convenience. Your character is still traveling those large distances, but as a player the travel time is significantly reduced.
@@Hewasnumber1 I 100% agree.
@@Hewasnumber1yeah like how in lore the Duke's Archives are on top on the mountain, and once there you can see Anor Londo in the distance, giving you the impression that the places are distant from each other, the corridors and the elevator make it seem like you've travelled far but in reality the distance is VERY short.
The same thing happens in ds1 and ds3. Distances are exaggerated, which is why locations you visit look 5x further away when you see them from majula or similar. Like when you go up the elevators from anor Londo to the Duke's Archives, and from the Archives you see an anor Londo that looks miles away despite you not really going that far
It's to keep the play space small for the sake of development and probably also for pacing and not making the players walk the realistic distance, but still giving a sense that you have traveled an epic, enormous journey
Elden Ring is really the first game to commit to actually making you go as far as it looks like you have to go to regions in the distance (usually), and the cost of that is an open world that is regularly complained to be "too big" and "a slog to travel".
its pretty simple, you can take these things very literally and they will make no sense
but there are things in dialogue and item descriptions that clue you in that things are supposed to be strange and unexplainable
i think thats a product of ds1 and ds3 sharing a more grounded and connected narrative and people approaching ds2 in the same way
15:00 Mauler: "The game evokes feelings in it's player" this is bad! because I say so.
feeble cursed one!
Mauler es el crítico de todos los tiempos. Si fuera por el te convencería de que el juego tenga rejugabilidad como algo muy malo y que daña la esencia de los Souls.
I used to think that Mauler is just dishonest, now I'm thinking he's incapable of understanding non-literal language. And dishonest.
>ds1 fans when they require abstract thinking
So Mauler is saying Stanley Kubrick films are "Clownishly put together"?
Mauler's never had anything other than an L take so
I love Gilligan's dialogue at Earthen Peak. People who rush the game and bad mouth it will miss that dialogue. Shame, Gilligan has a lot of lore drops.
ngl, i never doubted the volcano above the windmill, seems i was hollow all along
While this video makes sense and gives an interesting interpretation of some areas, I've always seen the travels between areas as cinematic cut. When you see Heide from Majula, far away, but you need to walk like 1min to go to it, this is like if the travel time was just jump cut, similarly to what would have been done in a movie, where travels are cut if not having anything special to show.
I love how with pretty much every video of yours, I either learn new things or get a new perspective on some aspects of it.
This time it was the seemingly "messy" placement of areas. Mostly from critiques, I always thought it was unintended, especially since DS2 had troubles in development.
But honestly, I agree with your take and perspective. It really fits the themes of feeling wrong, messing with your mind. Whether it was intended or not, it plays into the themes very well.
Perhaps the thing they could have made to make it seem more intended would be to make old area views change when passing certain points (like with Drangleic castle moving, make it so if you go back to check, it's in the "correct" place). But honestly, people who immerse themselves and don't go back to check those details, will be more likely to spot the artistic value of this, be it intended or not.
If they ever do a remake I want them to embrace it even more.
For example the elevator up to Iron Keep could still be the same, but you suddenly have some new items in the inventory. If you go back there's a new area that's a underground world that connects the back of the windmill with the vulcano, which your character cleared without you remembering.
Or implementing something similar as the confusing looping Dungeon from Elden Ring in the Shulva pyramid.
That last paragraph illustrates quite well why I'm 100% certain that it was in fact only a development fluke. They just used the idea of convoluted space from DS1 and used it as an excuse for why DS2 didn't turn out well world-wise.
@@Domo3000 I agree, although I think best if they didn't change too much in terms of areas for a remake (keep it like DeS remake did - since DS2 already has so much charm). That's why I'm suggesting background changes only, so if you go back, suddenly the areas in the distance are in "correct" spots. It would be very subtle and more likely to confuse the player, since they might brush it off as "bad memory". An additional area that you didn't clear would be way more recognizable since you, as a player, would clearly know that you weren't here.
However, the ideas of confusing the player in general would be awesome to explore even more in future games. Leyndell Catacombs were awesome.
@@greibert1447Here's a quote from the Design Works interview:
"Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery."
Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected."
According to the Art Director they deliberately made the world confusing.
I am a huge fan of Dark Souls 2, played that thing for thousands of hours.
The problem with the themes and narrative of Dark Souls 2 is that it doesn't stick to those themes. At the end, it is "Dark Souls", which means it prioritizes the themes of cycles, decay and futility- and hope despite this reality. My main criticism of Dark Souls 2 has ALWAYS been that they should've made it its own setting and focused far, far more on the initial themes of *memory*, decay and the relentless march of time. These themes themselves are not bad- the problem is the execution. The problem is, 9o% of the time, the execution.
The idea that an elevator leading into a lava lake from below is somehow an amazing iteration of "the world not making sense" is beyond silly. Especially when the rest of the game's maps are... just "normal". The size of the map is squashed down, but other than that it is entirely mundane, save for the monumental spires of stones with the drakes. Imagine if, instead, you went to Heide's Tower of Flame, beat its boss, continued on to Lost Sinner and came back to find the tower reduced to rubble. Aged and weathered to vaguely structured scraps of stone. And as you explore its new geography, you find the underground tunnel sinking further down and leading to a gaping chasm. This is your path to The Gutter, and to The Rotten at the bottom of it. As you progress through the game, the world ages and decays- and, eventually, begins to mix and mesh together.
As you continue defeating the major bosses, the maps begin to wear down into ruins, and maybe the world even begins to shrink in on itself, or the individual biomes begin leaking into one another. The Forest of Giants begins getting swallowed up by the fog of the Shaded Woods, eventually leading directly into Pharros' Doors despite initially being nowhere near one another. Eventually, the Tower of Flame might simply merge with and become one with the Lost Bastille, while portions of the bottom-most layers of the prison now lead directly into the Rat King's domain.
And, as you reach the end, you begin seeing the ocean recede, and mighty pillars of rock looming on the horizon, with more and more appearing as the Dragon Aerie draws near. At this point, you would have an almost complete dissolution of the map, going from several distinct (yet connected) environs to a singular, shifting mess of attributes from those areas. You could even have NPCs react to this, or take advantage of the evolving geometry to access places previously out-of-reach. Imagine how Cale would handle this, spiraling into madness and eventually resignation and even Hollowing as the map in the basement weathers away until it is just a rock platform.
The problem is the execution. The themes are rife with potential, but the way they are handled does them no justice. And simply asserting that because the position of background elements not lining up with geographically accurate distances means the game has good storytelling doesn't mean much. Apologies.
You’re misremembering the plot of DS1, there are no cycles in DS1, that part of the lore was introduced by DS2.
@@Zapdos7471Cycles are part of Ds1, they are more in the subtext. In particular Gwyn killed the dragons, to end of the age of fog to start the age of Fire, we then kill Gwyn to either start an age of dark or to restart the age of Fire
@@firekram there are no cycles in DS1.
Gwyn started the age of fire and it's still going ( although fading ) during the events of the game. We can extend the age of fire or let the first flame die and start the age of dark, which would be new to the world at that point.
@@sviniciusbraga
There is a cycle in DS1. "A", singular- specifically, in the Linking of the Flame ending, you begin the cycle.
Additionally, it is heavily implied that, once Fire sprang into existence and brought with it opposites, The Age of Light would always (eventually) have an opposing "Age of Dark". It is absolutely a lot more subtextual, but it is there nonetheless.
Edit: specifically, you begin the cycle of "Dark Souls 1 plot repeating itself to perpetuate the fire", separate from the implied cycle between Light and Dark.
Here's a quote from the Design Works interview:
"Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery."
Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected."
my older brother will not stop watching mauler. he's already a somewhat negative person and the dudes videos just fucking spew negativity. every time we talk about a new movie i can just feel mauler's words through him. like possession but not really. just parroting.
mauler clearly makes high effort content but in every. single. video. he is constantly talking down about others for the entertainment. his comment sections are seriously what i consider to be a highschool lunchtable filled with failing debate club kids.
He gossips like a woman
I get that the cursed undead is developing dementia and losing his mind, but am I really to assume the character suddenly recovered his memory, his sense of self and space and his proper orientation for the three DLCs?
Besides they could have developed an NPC that thanks you for doing things you have no memory of doing to hammer the point home, and also make him a straight liar so it'd still be unclear.
As the game is right now, it really feels like we have to justify their artistic choices for them.
I think one thing that Dark Souls 2 could have done that would have really nailed the memory loss idea can be taken from the Immersive Portals Mod from Minecraft. Hear me out.
Everyone knows the Earthen Peak elevator but how cool would it have been if you walked outside the elevator, only to look back and see something completely different from the elevator. Even better if you could walk back and see an entire area with all the enemies already dead. This kind of visual trickery would really nail the whole "forgetting" theme that makes you question reality.
Your video editing and storytelling is getting better each video.
This game was made for the lads.
A lot of thematic and narrative criticsm of DS2 seems to hinge on the idea of authorial intent and how the game's story and lore were affected by its development cycle, rather than engaging with the art for what it does end up communicating, regardless of how much the player wanted it to be DS1
I personally don’t think it takes place in a dream. If it was all a dream then why does the connections between dark souls 2 and 3 exist? The references take place in the same universe as dark souls 3’s but the actual alternate universe being ariamis is still treated like it takes place separately from dark souls 3. It could be argued that ariamis and ariendel are the same world but then that only solidifies that the other universe is in its own universe and not dark souls 3. Furthermore the references to dark souls 1 being in the game make it clear that both games are in the same universe. If the world of dark souls 2 was created by the emerald herald then how come she would be able to know what ornstein looks like or even who the four old ones are? This also would include the old chaos as well. There are to many things pointing to dark souls 2 taking place in the same world as dark souls 1 and 3 for it to all be a dream world
The Duke's Dear Freya, as in the Duke's Archives I.e. Seathe. I feel like it's a bit of a reach to say it's a dream and even still to say it's the player losing their memories or going hollow. We can't know what is intentional and what isn't, although the interviews point to time constraints preventing a lot of what might have been a more cohesive world. Still, perhaps they were trying to imply the player's mind is fading, but there's no way to know for sure without explicit statements from the devs.
@@michaelcarroll5801 the time constraints prevented them from making the world even more nonsensical.
Here's a quote from the Design Works interview:
"Next we move onto The Iron Keep, although many people found the fact that these locations were linked to be something of a mystery."
Art Director Daisuke Satake: "Of course, conventional wisdom would place magma underground but when you start to consider this lake and realize that there must be a reason for it being there, then the world becomes a little more interesting. I tried to implement ideas like this throughout the game, to give the player something curious and unexpected."
They deliberately made the connections nonsensical in order to create mystery.
@@Domo3000 I am only partially convinced, because in the full interview Tanimura, in response to the same question, explicitly states that Iron Keep is a volcanic mountain plateau and that given more time they would have made the geographical connection clearer. So the reality is that it's somewhere between the two extremes; a disorienting and strange world where time and space are warped, where the players mind is fading like all of those around him, but still with more cohesive elements presented in the world.
Either way we can only dream of a world where DS2 was fully realised instead of being limited by the release timeline of Bloodborne.
BTW this is an old comment, so I have been thinking about it and I definitely think the player is losing their memories like the NPCs around him, but not that Drangleic is a dream.
Not sure if you'll see this but thanks for so much interesting discourse around DS2, it's made me think more critically about the games I enjoy. I've put in 100 hours in the last few months of DS2 entirely inspired by your videos pointing out the uncritical, incohesive nature of the majority of DS2 discourse.
Some of his complaints are so specific like the exact position of the Drangleic Tower, bruh, you literally have to go looking for such little things and even if you see them doesnt make a damn difference...
Its like if i use my spyglass on Elden Ring to lookt at far away things that dont render at such distance only for me to complain that it isnt loaded even though thr only way for me to notice that is if i went looking in the first place...
Some of the scenery not alining perfectly is fine, it looking further than it is to make the world feel larger is fine, Dark Souls 2 is fine, ppl need to stop making stuff up.
Someone just needs to program A=B B=Youre a Smart Logic Man in flashy lights so Mauler can have his objective narrative
Domo do you have plans to take a look at feeble king's ds2 videos? Though a lot is similar to Mauler's complaints
I did a few videos debunking his "Scholar ruined DS2" clickbait videos: ua-cam.com/video/8FdMy30_f98/v-deo.html
But yeah now that you say it I don't think I did one on his general DS2 video,
@@Domo3000 Damn, even though I looked through the channel I didn't notice it. Thanks.
I think he has 2 videos aside from that "scholar ruined it" video.
The 2 years old video even has the obligatory "Amana bad" bit. I personally hated it for a long-ish while until I discovered the shields that parry magic and the looking glass shield, magic shield, and the fact that the tracking of those soul arrows stops following you if you do a sharp turn, turning even vanilla Amana into a fun bullet hell section, or trivial walk with those shields. I never see anyone mentioning this.
What mods are you running in this vid? Looks great
Lighting Engine
He's at least running DS2LightingEngine. It's a game changer.
I always thought people forgetting how they got here was them losing their memories and going hollow
12:08 That is where most will not be able to continue MauLers video as he is literally just making arguments in favor of the "DS2 is bad" narrative, not making any sense.
can’t believe i got gaslit by this community into thinking i only liked ds2 because it was mY fiRst souLs gaMe.
i replayed every single souls and souls like 10’s of times and dark souls 2 still without a shadow of a doubt stands on top of all souls and souls like games as the best one.
_MOM WAKE UP!!! DOMO IS STILL GOING IN ON MAULER!!!!_
Personally, I think everyone's blowing this game out of proportion. It's a decent game, some of the inconsistencies aren't intentional as much as last-minute reworks, which isn't anything new to FromSoftware games as there are usually instances like that in all of their games (though Bloodborne is probably the worst due to the crazy time crunch). I never got everyone's beef with earth peak to the volcano.
I loved DS2. Best souls 2 imo ❤
Best Souls 2
Domo, Discord channel when ? u should make one
Dark Souls II is the bleakest game in the series because its about the very real fear of losing oneself. It's the perfect compliment to DS1's ending of linking the fire, IMO.
Dark souls 2 has the best story of any dark souls story . Thank you 🙏🏽
The truly overwhelming counter to this whole "laziness" argument (as if it really needs one), in the fact that the earthern peak elevator used to go down to undead crypt. If the designers wanted the connection to iron keep to make geographic sense, or even if they fully didn't care, they could have kept it as-is and just swapped the destinations. Descending an elevator to enter a sunken lava lake is totally sensible and realistic. Instead, they actively put in work to change the layout of the level in order to make it unrealistic. This seems to me like it oBjEcTiVeLy refutes the idea that it's a product of laziness and not a design decision. Of course, that only matters if you have a definition of "objective" that actually means anything. The "objectivity" that Mauler and co. champion so much seems to just amount to "I am a smart person, and smart people care about factual things, so the things I believe are clearly irrefutable facts"
Did you see my pinned comment where the Art Director said the same thing about the elevator going deliberately up in order to create mystery and that he implemented a lot of such moments in the game?
Another banger
dark souls 2 is unironically lynchian and i love it for that
I honestly think Lynch's Dune has a lot of similarities in the difficulty of its production that you can compare to DS2's rocky development
He’s like “there are dragons in the game, but dragons aren’t real, so clearly the developers are fools who made a mistake!”