Good stuff. Most of it's familiar, but I didn't know that the MYP writers had gotten the idea from us fans. As one of the first people to put forth the Keldor Origin Theory online (in Adam Tyner's old Q&A page back in the mid-90s, and supporting it with essays and fanfic), I feel like I share some of the credit/blame for this. :D
I always had the inkling that they got the idea from the fans' debate as I always felt it was unlikely the writers would have revisited an unrealized idea from one specific minicomic in so much depth if it wasn't for fan interest, but this video confirmed my suspicions. You definitely popularized the Keldor theory, but at least your fanfics were actually good, unlike the Keldor story as conceived/told by the post-millennium MOTU media. Not to undermine the MYP show in general, it was a very good series overall thanks mainly to the talents of Dean Stefan and Larry DiTillio, but the way Keldor was handled was lousy, as was the more detailed origin story they had in mind, later realized very poorly and unimaginatively by Scott Neitlich's MOTU Classics media. (And don't even get me started on Revolution and the CGI show's portrayals of the character.) An animated adaptation of The Endless Night fanfic - now that's something I'd love to see.
@@aidancross9756 Nice to know that old work is still fondly remembered in spots, even if the other thing it hinges on--the identification of Scare Glow with Skeletor--has been pretty firmly debunked. :) I think MYP's missteps were 1) making the Keldor/Skeletor connection a publicly known fact, instead of a dark secret that _only_ Skeletor and whoever caused the change might know about.* 2) The introduction of the Gar race, and the idea that they were the victims of prejudice, which introduced an element of "maybe Keldor/Skeletor is the victim here" that undercuts the evil of Skeletor. *(When watching "The Price of Deceit", I was struck by how well their Hordak slotted into the role I gave to the Nameless Evil. If I hadn't been trying to keep continuity with Filmation, I might have gone a similar way--and it becomes even stronger if you take some hints from the Power Tour that suggest Hordak might have been the "unnamed one" the Snake Men were serving.)
@@matthewmartin1595 Absolutely agree. The rendering of the Keldor/Skeletor connection as common knowledge among the heroes was where they seriously went wrong - it would have been better off left a mystery, something perhaps hinted at in certain episodes but not made clear, or at the very least, been information that only the viewers were privy to. The Price of Deceit is possibly my favourite episode of the MYP series despite my general dislike of the Keldor idea - Larry DiTillio's script definitely made his origin more palatable for me. The Gar always struck me as a lazy explanation for why Skeletor had blue skin, and unnecessary as well, especially considering most 80s media - I don't know about Filmation, but definitely the minicomics and UK Comics - depicted Skeletor as wearing a blue bodysuit, rather than it being the colour of his skin. The Gar idea could very easily have been discarded and left in the trash heap of unused ideas since it was never specifically mentioned in the MYP series, but sadly Scott Neitlich took both of the above two ideas and added insult to injury by making not only the Keldor/Skeletor connection, but his relation to Randor, common knowledge among the heroes in the MOTUC bios, and expanding on the Gar idea very poorly by making them poor victims of racism from bigoted white Eternians. Definitely weakened Skeletor's role by making him an unfortunate victim of racism rather than the ultimate evil he was portrayed as throughout the 80s media. While I was certainly never a fan of the 'Scare Glow is Skeletor's literal ghost' idea, that was another idea you handled very well in the fanfic.
@@aidancross9756 "The Gar always struck me as a lazy explanation for why Skeletor had blue skin, and unnecessary as well, especially considering most 80s media - I don't know about Filmation, but definitely the minicomics and UK Comics - depicted Skeletor as wearing a blue bodysuit, rather than it being the colour of his skin." I always figured that if something can transform someone's face into a yellow skull while keeping them fully functional, it can change skin color from pale pink to pale blue. :)
Great work on this, nice deep dive into the lore. I think you might have told me that the MYP folks got the idea from the boards, but it may have disappeared from my mind :)
GREAT VIDEO ON SKELETOR 🌟⚔️👌🏻👌🏻 !!! Would you still happen to have your Norem Prints , would you be interested to sell it ? i would like to make you an offer . Thanks
I strongly wish the minicomic writers had never come up with the idea of Keldor. As it was, a throwaway idea from the end of the line's run in the 80s, which was never even fully thought through, came to dictate the entire creative path of the franchise from its resurrection in the early 00s. And gave us a whole slew of medicore origin stories for Skeletor which cheapen the character, not to mention increasing Randor's role in the story to a level of importance never originally intended for him while simultaneously reducing He-Man's own centrality, with the emphasis now placed on the 'brothers in conflict' storyline rather than Mark Taylor's original concept of 'ultimate warriors of good and evil battling for the fate of the universe'. This is the first time I've ever seen that prick Ian Richter's face, let alone heard him speak. His arrogance and narcissism shows in his obnoxious tones and mannerisms, and his smug expression. This is the man who pretty much single-handedly ruined the creative course of the franchise with his lazy, unimaginative ideas. Shame he made the choice to let fandom debate influence his creative decisions to such an extent. Fans speculate wildly but their ideas and theories are not always that great, and creative decisions are best left to the writers (i.e. actual artists, not corporate hacks like Richter) without being influenced by fan speculation.
Good point; Randor really does get overcentralized in MYP and onward material, when he was originally just an element of world-building (minicomics) or a foil/disappointed parental figure for Adam (Filmation). And while Filmation introduced a bit of conflict between Grayskull and the throne of Eternia as Skeletor's goals, the later material has really overdone it with Keldor's resentment and focus on the latter (at least in what I saw of the CGI show--I ignore Revelation/Revolution on principle :) ). This is further complicated by the unnecessary 'graying' of issues with the idea that Keldor had legitimate grievances and was the rightful heir and/or victim of prejudice. I don't mind the idea of Skeletor being human once, but I draw the line at him being the victim of anything other than his own pride and flaws. :)
@@matthewmartin1595 It's been frustrating the way Randor has been overcentralized; he was only created in the first place as a generic king to serve as Adam's disappointed parental figure, and the fact Filmation portrayed him as a particularly unlikeable character, coming across as not only a poor father figure but a bit of a wimp in general and not too bright, certainly didn't help. I liked the way the later minicomics and the MYP series kind of corrected this by making him a warrior king and more battle-ready - after all it made far more sense for Eternia to have a warrior as king rather than a wuss like he was in Filmation - but either way, he should be kept to his original intended role as a background character and a foil for Adam, definitely not a centrepiece to the mythology. And I'm absolutely with you on Skeletor; I don't necessarily have a problem with him having a human origin, but he is far more effective as a natural born villain, driven by his own pride and greed for power, rather than an unfortunate victim of other people's prejudice.
I’d also add that ”bloodline” that comes directly to Adam from his father’s side complicates things to a degree. I remember when DC Comics 2014 had their prophecies about ”the heir of Grayskull will do X, while another heir will do Y”. Which more likely refers to Adam and Adora in the grand scheme of things. However fans were confused (and speculated) that is that about Randor having a role in it all, with Keldor serving a different role. There’s this… Obi-Wan & Anakin type of thing that almost crept into it all. Bloodline idea brings up the old ”well why is Miro not Champion for Grayskull? Why is Randor not worthy…?” And there hasn’t been any exploration into that. On whether Randor HAS to be King and not Grayskull’s chosen. OR he has drawn blood or made choises that disqualify his entry ticket… I don’t mind giving Randor some history. Or (spoilers for a decade old comic), . . his death even. To give him more to do. Centralized focus or not. But I personally prefer that prophecy stuff be left to Adam and Adora. 😅
@@ToonJukka Aidan may dislike Keldor, but personally, I think the introduction of "King Grayskull" has done as much or more harm in vitiating the original concepts. Maybe the same thing would have happened if the Powers of Grayskull had gone forward, but He-Ro's bloodline connection to He-Man was more of an 'Easter egg' than a unifying explanation of why it was Adam who received the Sword. (And the whole 'the Power was within King Grayskull all along' further takes away from the mystery and wonder.) But then, I'm also of the opinion that "He-Ro belongs to the 80s*, King Grayskull to 2002, and mixing the two as we've seen going forward has done more harm than good." *You can get some interesting results if you read the 87 movie through the lens of the Keldor Origin and some of the PoG concepts and rumors. :)
Thanks for not only this video but for everything you've done for the MOTU community, you most definitely have the power.
Appreciate it highly! I have more topics to cover, which are being edited. 😃😃
A deep dive on Skeletor's background; nice.
Good stuff. Most of it's familiar, but I didn't know that the MYP writers had gotten the idea from us fans. As one of the first people to put forth the Keldor Origin Theory online (in Adam Tyner's old Q&A page back in the mid-90s, and supporting it with essays and fanfic), I feel like I share some of the credit/blame for this. :D
I always had the inkling that they got the idea from the fans' debate as I always felt it was unlikely the writers would have revisited an unrealized idea from one specific minicomic in so much depth if it wasn't for fan interest, but this video confirmed my suspicions.
You definitely popularized the Keldor theory, but at least your fanfics were actually good, unlike the Keldor story as conceived/told by the post-millennium MOTU media. Not to undermine the MYP show in general, it was a very good series overall thanks mainly to the talents of Dean Stefan and Larry DiTillio, but the way Keldor was handled was lousy, as was the more detailed origin story they had in mind, later realized very poorly and unimaginatively by Scott Neitlich's MOTU Classics media. (And don't even get me started on Revolution and the CGI show's portrayals of the character.)
An animated adaptation of The Endless Night fanfic - now that's something I'd love to see.
@@aidancross9756 Nice to know that old work is still fondly remembered in spots, even if the other thing it hinges on--the identification of Scare Glow with Skeletor--has been pretty firmly debunked. :)
I think MYP's missteps were 1) making the Keldor/Skeletor connection a publicly known fact, instead of a dark secret that _only_ Skeletor and whoever caused the change might know about.* 2) The introduction of the Gar race, and the idea that they were the victims of prejudice, which introduced an element of "maybe Keldor/Skeletor is the victim here" that undercuts the evil of Skeletor.
*(When watching "The Price of Deceit", I was struck by how well their Hordak slotted into the role I gave to the Nameless Evil. If I hadn't been trying to keep continuity with Filmation, I might have gone a similar way--and it becomes even stronger if you take some hints from the Power Tour that suggest Hordak might have been the "unnamed one" the Snake Men were serving.)
@@matthewmartin1595 Absolutely agree. The rendering of the Keldor/Skeletor connection as common knowledge among the heroes was where they seriously went wrong - it would have been better off left a mystery, something perhaps hinted at in certain episodes but not made clear, or at the very least, been information that only the viewers were privy to. The Price of Deceit is possibly my favourite episode of the MYP series despite my general dislike of the Keldor idea - Larry DiTillio's script definitely made his origin more palatable for me.
The Gar always struck me as a lazy explanation for why Skeletor had blue skin, and unnecessary as well, especially considering most 80s media - I don't know about Filmation, but definitely the minicomics and UK Comics - depicted Skeletor as wearing a blue bodysuit, rather than it being the colour of his skin.
The Gar idea could very easily have been discarded and left in the trash heap of unused ideas since it was never specifically mentioned in the MYP series, but sadly Scott Neitlich took both of the above two ideas and added insult to injury by making not only the Keldor/Skeletor connection, but his relation to Randor, common knowledge among the heroes in the MOTUC bios, and expanding on the Gar idea very poorly by making them poor victims of racism from bigoted white Eternians. Definitely weakened Skeletor's role by making him an unfortunate victim of racism rather than the ultimate evil he was portrayed as throughout the 80s media.
While I was certainly never a fan of the 'Scare Glow is Skeletor's literal ghost' idea, that was another idea you handled very well in the fanfic.
@@aidancross9756 "The Gar always struck me as a lazy explanation for why Skeletor had blue skin, and unnecessary as well, especially considering most 80s media - I don't know about Filmation, but definitely the minicomics and UK Comics - depicted Skeletor as wearing a blue bodysuit, rather than it being the colour of his skin."
I always figured that if something can transform someone's face into a yellow skull while keeping them fully functional, it can change skin color from pale pink to pale blue. :)
@@matthewmartin1595 Absolutely - would much rather they'd gone with that idea personally! :)
Great work on this, nice deep dive into the lore. I think you might have told me that the MYP folks got the idea from the boards, but it may have disappeared from my mind :)
I love this
GREAT VIDEO ON SKELETOR 🌟⚔️👌🏻👌🏻 !!! Would you still happen to have your Norem Prints , would you be interested to sell it ? i would like to make you an offer . Thanks
I thought he was Duke Igthorn from Gummi bears Before he lost his skin
Haha. Never heard of that fan theory! 😂😃😃
I strongly wish the minicomic writers had never come up with the idea of Keldor. As it was, a throwaway idea from the end of the line's run in the 80s, which was never even fully thought through, came to dictate the entire creative path of the franchise from its resurrection in the early 00s. And gave us a whole slew of medicore origin stories for Skeletor which cheapen the character, not to mention increasing Randor's role in the story to a level of importance never originally intended for him while simultaneously reducing He-Man's own centrality, with the emphasis now placed on the 'brothers in conflict' storyline rather than Mark Taylor's original concept of 'ultimate warriors of good and evil battling for the fate of the universe'.
This is the first time I've ever seen that prick Ian Richter's face, let alone heard him speak. His arrogance and narcissism shows in his obnoxious tones and mannerisms, and his smug expression. This is the man who pretty much single-handedly ruined the creative course of the franchise with his lazy, unimaginative ideas. Shame he made the choice to let fandom debate influence his creative decisions to such an extent. Fans speculate wildly but their ideas and theories are not always that great, and creative decisions are best left to the writers (i.e. actual artists, not corporate hacks like Richter) without being influenced by fan speculation.
Good point; Randor really does get overcentralized in MYP and onward material, when he was originally just an element of world-building (minicomics) or a foil/disappointed parental figure for Adam (Filmation). And while Filmation introduced a bit of conflict between Grayskull and the throne of Eternia as Skeletor's goals, the later material has really overdone it with Keldor's resentment and focus on the latter (at least in what I saw of the CGI show--I ignore Revelation/Revolution on principle :) ). This is further complicated by the unnecessary 'graying' of issues with the idea that Keldor had legitimate grievances and was the rightful heir and/or victim of prejudice. I don't mind the idea of Skeletor being human once, but I draw the line at him being the victim of anything other than his own pride and flaws. :)
@@matthewmartin1595 It's been frustrating the way Randor has been overcentralized; he was only created in the first place as a generic king to serve as Adam's disappointed parental figure, and the fact Filmation portrayed him as a particularly unlikeable character, coming across as not only a poor father figure but a bit of a wimp in general and not too bright, certainly didn't help. I liked the way the later minicomics and the MYP series kind of corrected this by making him a warrior king and more battle-ready - after all it made far more sense for Eternia to have a warrior as king rather than a wuss like he was in Filmation - but either way, he should be kept to his original intended role as a background character and a foil for Adam, definitely not a centrepiece to the mythology.
And I'm absolutely with you on Skeletor; I don't necessarily have a problem with him having a human origin, but he is far more effective as a natural born villain, driven by his own pride and greed for power, rather than an unfortunate victim of other people's prejudice.
I’d also add that ”bloodline” that comes directly to Adam from his father’s side complicates things to a degree. I remember when DC Comics 2014 had their prophecies about ”the heir of Grayskull will do X, while another heir will do Y”. Which more likely refers to Adam and Adora in the grand scheme of things.
However fans were confused (and speculated) that is that about Randor having a role in it all, with Keldor serving a different role. There’s this… Obi-Wan & Anakin type of thing that almost crept into it all.
Bloodline idea brings up the old ”well why is Miro not Champion for Grayskull? Why is Randor not worthy…?”
And there hasn’t been any exploration into that. On whether Randor HAS to be King and not Grayskull’s chosen. OR he has drawn blood or made choises that disqualify his entry ticket…
I don’t mind giving Randor some history.
Or (spoilers for a decade old comic),
.
.
his death even. To give him more to do. Centralized focus or not.
But I personally prefer that prophecy stuff be left to Adam and Adora. 😅
@@ToonJukka Aidan may dislike Keldor, but personally, I think the introduction of "King Grayskull" has done as much or more harm in vitiating the original concepts. Maybe the same thing would have happened if the Powers of Grayskull had gone forward, but He-Ro's bloodline connection to He-Man was more of an 'Easter egg' than a unifying explanation of why it was Adam who received the Sword. (And the whole 'the Power was within King Grayskull all along' further takes away from the mystery and wonder.)
But then, I'm also of the opinion that "He-Ro belongs to the 80s*, King Grayskull to 2002, and mixing the two as we've seen going forward has done more harm than good."
*You can get some interesting results if you read the 87 movie through the lens of the Keldor Origin and some of the PoG concepts and rumors. :)
Crack