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Irons Sights Vs. Red Dots on a Rifle: Which is Better/Faster?
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- Опубліковано 9 січ 2020
- In this informative video, Reid Henrichs of Valor Ridge discusses the benefits of red dots and iron sights. He demonstrates both speed and accuracy with both and lets the viewer make his/her own decision.
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Love shooting iron sights. There's just something appealing/pleasing when shooting with them.
They don't require a battery to function. I like old style, my opinion. In the long run, what ever you are most comfortable with and works for you.
@Eugene Stoner I have and shoot both. Thanks. My setup is very similar to Reid's red dot set-up.
This video was so encouraging. I've taken a long time to save up for my rifle as I'm married with Children and I'm always on a budget. I was only able to afford to put backup iron sights on it and have been practicing with those for a while now until I can afford a scope or red dot. Now I'm just going to wait even longer.
Less is more. You can do a lot with what you have. All the best
I got a used AR15 with no name red dot that I don’t want to trust. These videos and this comment helped me tremendously remove it tonight. Range next weekend on iron from here on out until I can buy a nice dot.
@@oak8728 you can get a decent red dot from Holosun that won’t break the bank I know budget is subjective but you can get a decent dot from them for like 200-250
Train.....Train... Train....!!!!!!! is ALL you need
Back in the 80's Infantry soldiers in the Army at least used iron sights first on M16A1's then A2's , you didn't use any kind of optic until or unless you moved into the Special Operations community . Even there you were expected to be proficient with iron sights on your weapons .Also what needs to be remembered is even a small red dot is a 2 MOA circle which isn't really anymore accuracy than you'd get from standard mil-spec irons .
It’s more accurate because you get more leeway and your alignment doesn’t have to be as precise behind the optic that and adjusting the brightness down will make the dot appear smaller and allow you to be more precise
Preach the truth Reid. When I attended Rifleman 1 there were a couple of new shooters (husband & wife) who ran a basic AR-15 and an AK-47. Both had iron sights and both were ringing steel way out there. It's doable within the confines of a two day class like Rifleman 1. Get on it y'all.
I've got 70 year old eyes (along with the rest of me) and I have a hard time picking up the rear aperture.
Red dot helps me quite a bit.
I'm 53 but my eyesight isn't what it used to be, and same same. Especially at night. Even with a weapon light that iron sight is not easy to see.
Remember when we were young and used to make fun of our older parents for being far-sighted? My dad always said I would regret it. Haha he was right like always.
I hear you, Sir, and I can commiserate. You might look into Tech Sights peep hole sights. They'll put that rear aperture MUCH closer to your eyes and clear your sight picture considerably, plus, they never need batteries!
I hear ya. I'm 68 & most days feel like I was shot out of a canon for a living. But it's still fun.
@@MyBacktrail I see 6 to 7 dots, a few will fade in and out, I wonder which one is the real one?
FRONT SIGHT FRONT SIGHT FRONT SIGHT!! Focus only on the FRONT SIGHT. Thats a FACT.
Love that saying "technique over technology "...I need to come to valor ridge for training soon.
Jonesy 22 Just make sure you have a stock factory rifle without modifications.
@@JS-.- hear that...easy to do when have no money though lmao...I do like the k.i.s.s. method on things anyhow...
I've grown to love the traditional A2 sights.
I have a different take on this topic. I consider 3 factors .
1. Maintenance- Iron wins here as they don't require batteries to operate.
2. Range- Short range no difference, Mid Range Iron has slight edge due to speed. Long Range Red Dot has edge due to optic.
3. Training required to get proficient. Red Dot wins here. Of course you can train with Iron and become proficient it just takes a lot longer.
Based on these it would be good to train on Iron for long term SHTF or WROL situation where technology is not available. However preparing for upcoming conflicts with our own government I would air on the side of Red Dot for the learning curve and train-ability.
I keep backup iron sights on my rifles, but I'm older so I really need the optics for FAST sight acquisition!!
@lane johnson you have an astigmatism very common
@lane johnson Maybe try a prism sight
Add another to the "used to love irons but can't see them anymore" club. AR15 sights are too close to me now that I need to wear magnified reading glasses. AK sights...love them, but the red dot on either just works for me now that I'm past 50. It also is more like a star bit I still get hits consistently with less eye strain.
Right on time Reid! I just picked up a new AR today and vowed to run irons for a while! Thanks for cosigning my plan!!
It's tough keeping up with the Joneses lol everyone has a new optic every year. I have a few myself but I always go back to my irons
It is so awesome what you are teaching people in your country.
Lets see this comparison under stress in dark/low light on a moving target.
Hahaha. Good point
Exactly. No doubt I agree with almost anything he's saying about technique but a dot or lpvo is so much easier, especially if you have "technique".
Yup...T-Rex Arms has a good video demonstrating this, it's a pretty good drill to practice if you have the time and place to set it up.
Or when rounds are being flung back. (aka Under Stress) However, let's also test this when the dot battery is dead or as diving to prone you bang those sexy red dots on a rock knocking them off zero. Run BOTH, be proficient with BOTH, under ALL circumstances.
Regaina Young
I’ll probably soil myself.
That rifle will be illegal in VA if the governor gets his way, let's all hope he don't.
No it won’t. The 2A is the law. The only way it’s illegal is if you’re willing to give the tyrants the power over you to say so and believe it.
@@BretAllen1 What's legal and what's constitutional are sadly too often different things.
@@heythere4970 No they aren't. If something isn't Constitutional, it isn't legal...*period*
@@johnniewasr5740 This law in VA is a perfect example. It went through the proper process, is in the books, and is now the law. It's unconstitutional and shouldn't be obeyed, but it's still the law. Hopefully the Supreme Court gets off its ass and fixes that mess. And hopefully we get a constitutionalist justice next term.
@@heythere4970 It may be a law, but it is an illegitimate law. An unconstitutional *law* is not a law at all. At least that is how I feel and how many, many more Patriots feel as well.
M&P’s are selling now for between $1500 and $2500 on GunBroker. Insane where we’ve gone in just one year. For me, I no longer possess my 20/10 eye site and at 63 years of age, I now have multiple sites on my weapons to afford me a variety of options, all of which are effective. I even have one setup with all three site options - scope, red dot and iron sites. Interestingly, I have the scope on top with the iron sites at a right 45 degree offset and the red dot 🔴 on the left at a 45 degree offset. While looking through the scope down range with my dominant right eye 👁, it is an easy transition to the red dot with my left eye for closer shots.
KEY POINT!!!
If it's raining sideways (or snowing this time of year) red dot has lenses that get obstructed. Irons just need a quick blow and they're good to go.
Irons can get caked in snow or mud just as easily.
Shot iron sights on the M16A2 in the Singapore army in the 1980s. No problems hitting a man-sized target out to 300 m. I think the best sights are those you can comfortably and reliably use. My younger buddies in the army are now using a bullpup rifle, with an optical sight. What can I say? I'll choose my M16A2 with iron sights and the young ones can use their bullpup with optical sights. We'll both do well when we put in enough training.
On a man sized target, sure. But you'll never have a man sized target in real life.
Excellent demonstration Reid.
I mustered on the Lexington Green that morning with the rest of my company. I was determined not to retreat for any reason. When ordered to disperse I remained in place with my flint and ammo on the ground in my hat. I was hit in the second volley and knocked to the ground. As I tried to reload, I was bayoneted by the Redcoats and died on the Green. - Jonas Parker, Lexington.
(QS)
No shit?
Real men gave their lives so that we could have the freedoms of a constitutional republic.
D Rock 75. If he died on the green how did he write the story?
Hi Reid... great video. I just read your American Rifleman book in about 4 days!!
"A tenth of a second is nothing to write home about".....famous last words. :P
Hey Reed. I think as far as a red dot goes, the advantage comes with situational awareness. I understand take your shot then ho back to ready, but at distance, especially with aging eyes (I'm 50 now) it seems easier to have situational awareness with a red dot superimposed so I don't have to stare at a front sight, and can watch what I'm shooting at. I do agree with you about staying fresh with irons. It just seems easier for my aging eyes to use a red dot.
Thanks for the content Mr. Henrichs. I wish I could take your classes but in the meantime your video content has helped me tremendously. World needs more men like you
Im a iron sight guy, but not at 200 yards. I can't see 200 yards, I have to use magnification to even make out the target. Guess I need to go back to the eye Dr.
Dude. I have 20/20 vision and cant see well at 200 yards. Open sights haha
Take my word for it, the price of a decent optic is less than the co-pay to get your eyes done.
@Manos Pequeñitas I actually run a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8 on my main rifle.
I like irons a lot too, but I don't care for the A1 style irons. Once you go past 300 meters, it makes it makes hitting the target much more difficult. I prefer to run the A2 style sights and use the drum as intended. For optics I prefer a fixed power scope, I find them more rugged and less things to worry about vs a variable ffp/sfp optic. But use what works for you, everyone has different preferences and what works best for them.
I remember hitting the big target at Parris Island (iirc 24”x36”) about the size of the avg man’s torso at 500m with just peep sights. Same target standing freehand at 200m...the good ole days
OUTSTANDING Reid !!
THANK YOU !!
Excellent read on BOTH books !!
Semper Fidelis
Great video. Thanks Reid.
I prefer old carry handle irons. Don’t really like red dots or optics. I genuinely enjoy the art and skill of learning the fundamentals of getting good with irons and breathing and holds and just all of it. I’m a new shooter. About 2 years now. But I been hitting decent groups at 200 yards now. Been practicing for 2 years with irons
Something I tell a lot of people as it's come with the time and experience is that the fundamentals of Red Dot/Reflex/Holographic Sights and Iron Sight are the same. The concept is for short range, quick target acquisition. Most Red Dots tend to have a more open objective which means a wider FOV when looking down the sight. The principle is also to shoot with both eyes open and it's usually much quicker for my eyes as well as others to find that dot than to find sight alignment.
There's plenty of application for iron sights and they arent useless or anything, but for any situation you can use irons at, the Red Dot will work just as well as your time trial showed, but at longer distances it will work more to your advantage as long as you have chosen the right size dot. If you're running a 5 MOA dot on a red dot and shooting at 100 yards or beyond, it can be done but you'll be a lot less precise than running say a 3 MOA or 1 MOA dot. Likewise, a smaller dot like that up close will be harder to pick up than a larger one. But this is no different than say iron sights with a dual position sight for close/long range.
In general, I prefer the Red Dot for a variety of reasons but I also believe having a pair of back up sights would be wise. There are plenty of good iron sight options out there too which fundamentally function as most Red Dots do such as XS Sights with their Big Dot line and the likes. There are plenty of other good examples but that's one of the easiest to make. End of the day though, use what you got, use it well, and I dont think you'll go wrong.
I'll have to concur with many of the comments, I like both. But I think it's important to start with iron sights, that way you learn the basic principles, and hopefully keep a set of irons on your rifle just in case.
I learned basic marksmanship many years ago in the Marines using iron sights. That's all we had. We learned about the "clear tip of the front sight post", etc. But now, at 64, for me the clear tip of the front sight post is now a "fuzzy tip". My old eyes appreciate any help they can get.
When you get older and focus range changes, red dots can be very beneficial.
I moved away from red dots to optics that run true 1X up to 6X or 8X. Gives a great amount of flexibility.
Reid rocks
I am amazed at the number of folks running AR's that have not zeroed them .. red dot or irons .. obviously that is not the case with you .. good concise video .. have a great year .. Scott
Nice shooting as always! And iron sights don't need batteries. I'm an iron sight kinda guy.
Same here
I I can’t wait to read your rifleman book I just bought it. I couldn’t put your pistol craft book down it was really good
I like how this guy point it out.
When batteries die, you better have a backup plan! Semper Fi!
I prefer my iron, carry handle sights. It feels more natural to me.
Thank you for all you do sir.
I'm with you. Don't need them expensive red dots.
I love iron sights. I've never owned a fancy scope or optic. Just iron and I've put several thousand rounds through my rifles. Teaching my young one the same.
Up close a bit faster with irons. Moving back RDS start to shine. Nice vid
I gotta get my old self down to Tennessee and attend one of you carbine classes.
Thank Reid for the wealth of knowledge. I truly respect and admire you.
This is Truly Appreciated from Goomiez Shop!
I just began using my first red dot that my FIL gave to me, I've only used iron sights or scopes on my guns up until now. One thing I love is that you can keep both eyes open, and for me, it decreases flinching. Something about having your eyes unsquinted, fully focused on the target, almost glaring at it. And I'm a lefty with an ar-15 that has the scaled down brass deflector, so the brass gets pretty close to my face. :)
Always a pleasure to watch one of your videos!
Good video.
Virginia just passed gun free zone where they're meeting on the 20th.
How ridiculous.
@Eugene Stoner I like your name 🔫 lol 😁
Dont be surprised if they bus antifa in to start fights in their “gun free zone” either.
Reid I recently completed a build identical to your 20 inch setup you did a couple years back, I run irons/carry handle on it and feel the longer sight radius helps with quicker target acquisition not red dot fast but still very useable.
The smith and Wesson m&p 15 sport 2 is a dang good rifle. It’s a steal at the prices they sell for.
I use a 2x7 scope with a solid QD mount. A2 front sight post, Matech rear peep. Works great. I have nothing against red dots, but I like the scope and irons better. Good video
Love this; technique over technology. Thanks Reid
It's different at night in the dark. Good video.
Good show
Thanks, sir
I think the main argument with red dots vs irons is the overall ability and ease use of the red dot. Obviously you can be just as fast with irons at 7 yards, Even at distance on a range day. But in a stressful life threatening situation, optics are always going to be better. At night, optics are going to be better. Shooting in anything other than a perfect position, a red dot is definitely going to be better. Not arguing against the fact that proper technique does definitely matter. Just giving my 2 cents and from use and experience is all.
Mr Henrichs I LOVE your vids especially the insight they give, "7 yards this could be a typical room engagment". OH DEAR not for us Brits on our crowded little island, with our little houses. Good stuff though as always thank you for this vid and for your time and effort. Also HAPPY NEW YEAR..... may your future be un-eventfully, peasefull and successfull.
Just bought both books cant wait to read them 👍
I want a back yard like this. Nice range you have built Reid, well done!
Training over technology
I love this guy‼I hope and pray I'll be able to train with him soon. Blessings to him and his wife🇺🇸. Happy Sabbath brother Reid🙏🏽
🤙 RIght on from Calif
USMC 93-97. I learned on m16 A2 Irons. I like my 3x scope, but take it off for the peep sights.
It's special because it's a S&W. I've had my Sport since 2012. Love it. Depends what you train with the most. I've always used iron sights and always will >:0
With an AK you can use the caveman eotech technique and it's even faster due to the design of the front sight.
How many Shooters on the three gun competition circuit use iron sights over red dot?
none and for good reason
Exactly
In my experience, gun-games on a manicured range aren't the same thing as practical shooting in the real world. go over to inrangetv, their comps are fairly realistic, and you see that the difference between "Open" an "Classic" type classes isn't that much (with plenty of "open" competitors placing below the classic guys). shoot, in one of the comps, Karl runs a Win 1873 and a ww1 1911 and places well in the overall standings vs guys with tricked out ar's. it should also be noted that those guys (Ian and Karl) are not world class shooters (and don't claim to be), just guys that really like to shoot.
Thank you Reid for your instructional videos! And I love your Book. Stay happy and safe Brother 🤙🇺🇸
Random comment to help analytics.
Top notch name and pfp.
"Could you do me a favor? Could you have a great day? Thanks."
Thank you for this. I practice with Both! KEEP ON ROCKING!
Reid, Thank you very much. GOD Bless you and Patriot Nurse and GOD Bless The Republic!!!
The advantage of a red dot over irons simply comes down to science because you don’t have to shift your focus back and forth from as many different focal plains it allows you to get on target faster that’s not to say you can’t get fast with irons but if your fast with those imagine how much quicker you can be with a red dot especially if you train with it
I have the same Riffle , and I love it ....
I have the exact same rifle and I love it. ...519.00 from Smokey Mountain Guns in Tennessee...I don’t live in Tennessee...lol
Thank You for this block of instruction, I am getting it down. Just slow and go.
i have iron
I suck at rifles and jealous. Photographers say "it's not the brand of camera, it's the photographer" Nice shooting!
Stand tall on 2nd amendment
One thing brother, I'm 56 now and I used to iron shoot with anybody, but now my eyes ain't what they used to be. I started using a scope and it really does help. I bought a red dot and I can hit out to 100 with it consistently. When I can get a 200 yd lane on my property, I'll see if I can use the red dot or if I am going to have to go with my scope!
As Reid is stating, it's whatever you get comfortable with,,, Set Down, Snap In, and Practice, Practice, Practice. That what the Marine Corps teaches. I went though Paris Island in 1977, platoon 3037, and run my rifle drills a couple time a week, then pistol drill along side that. So keep sharp, and proficient, and for the newbies Reid Henrichs has OUTSTANDING training courses, and is an Outstanding PMI (Primary Marksman Instructor).
God Speed, God Bless, and God Bless the Marine Corps,,,,,, 🇺🇸
Semper Fi,,,
I dropped EoTech two or three years ago when they admitted their sights were subject to a drift caused by weather temps. I shoot from MN to AZ and had always thought I must have bumped it somehow to lose zero over the years. At least they bought it back from me...that was cool. I switched to Aimpoint PRO and like it even better...I use a Vortex flip up magnifier at distance shooting. Good combination. For all those geezers with poor eyesight...get checked for cataracts and have the surgery done. It's absolutely life changing!
Now do them both moving, fire 6 rounds with .15 splits, do them around corners, go from standing to prone On the clock and engage a 200 yrd target. Red dot will win 10/10 times and probably by alot
The biggest advantage of red-dot and reflex sights is that they require only the indexing of one point - the dot or aiming point itself - with the target. With irons, you are looking at 3-4 discrete movements - indexing your eye to the rear sight aperture or notch, lining up with and indexing the front sight, and then aligning them on target. There are people who run 3-gun competitions with irons and score very highly. Not many, but they are out there. Usually older guys used to using iron sights since they were young, and in the service, that kind of thing.
Good video.
I do practice with iron sights more but I noticed my vision is getting worse with age. It's not terrible yet but noticeably worse than used to be so using iron sights is getting more difficult especially in low light conditions. Red dots makes this easier. But - this makes me practice with irons even more as I think one can train his eyes to some extent and slow down vision decline.
THANKS REID, IM AN OLD SCHOOL IRON SIGHT GUY. IM SURE LEARNING STUFF FROM YOU BROTHER. GOD BLESS
Keep “em light! Keep “em right!
I have both. For me, someone with astigmatism in my dominant eye, it helps to have a crisp red dot. I’m simply not good with those peep iron sights, or most iron sights. But at least I have them for a backup 😉🇺🇸
Nice job Brother 👊🇺🇸
I have both on my rifle but started with iron and believe everyone should first learn with iron sights then learn with red dots. I also believe that iron sights are quicker due to if there was a situation right now, you iron sights are ready where with the red dot you would have to turn it on first wasting precious seconds. I use iron sights in my home ready to go but have the red dot when needed and not in a rush.
Your shooting is impressive but I feel like this is a flawed argument. The red dot is faster , 9/10 people. Target transitions and rapid fire? Just easier to track a bright red dot. Secondly, red dots are meant to threat focus, irons is front sight focus- two totally different philosophies. I do agree with your idea that skill is better than toys, but I just feel like if you take the same guy and put him on irons vs dot, hes gonna most likely do better with the dot hour per hour behind each. Get good with both, and train the most with what you plan to use. But nice shooting Reed ✌🏼
Thanks for your videos. Just purchased your book in kindle version
Very good video. Agree completely. Thank you very much Reid.
I think really the advantage of red dot is it requires less to align to the target. Can iron sights be just as good? YES, maybe better. But, I think a red dot would require less practice and muscle memory. After all, you don't have to worry about getting things lined up. As long as you can see the reticle in the sight and the reticle is on target, you will hit the target. That's only 2 things you are lining up with the red dot. With irons, you have 3 variables to line up: Front sight, rear sight, and target. So you can be as good with irons as far as speed, but I think you'd have to train more. Also, irons are cheaper and more simple. If you want to be accurate at range with the red dot, you need a good one, which can be pricey. Also, most red dots are 1 MOA in diameter, which can cover your target too much at long range and leave you guessing where it is. With irons, you can have them sighted in to place the target above the front post, allowing you to still see your target without the optic getting in the way. *Long story short, Reddots require less time and brain cells to be good with (which is useful because in a firefight, adrenaline is pumping and the less you have to think about is the better). Iron sights are more accurate in my opinion at longer ranges, and you can be just as good with them, but it may take more practice and training to be fast with them, especially when the Fit hits the Shan.*
Your channel profile pic looks like the Mona Lisa only better looking. Great content as well.
Your philosophy is impeccable. Master iron sights and all the rest will follow. Technique!
Doing the Lord's work, Reid. Thank you. Hope to see you here in Virginia.
Red dots are nice but in most situations there might not be enough time for you to turn it on so being accurate and well trained with iron sights should be how everyone starts instead of just going straight to the red dots or lasers in my humble opinion. Reid keep up the great work and channel content, god bless you and other Patriots like you and most of all god bless our United States of America.
You shouldnt buy red dots that need to be turned on to use. Many good options that stay on for a few years nonstop, or that automatically turn on when the rifles moves.
@@JoshBenware I agree with you I guess my point was that anything electrical can fail be it the batteries die, or something can go bad inside of it. I guess if you are going to go with red dots your right you should go with a good quality one with motion detection turn on
@@wsttxC10_454 yeah, I've never understood people buying the ones you gotta manually turn on, unless it's just a range toy. I put red dots and backup irons on all my ar's, and luckily my aks already come with irons. I think it's a good idea to learn both. I bought my ar from a combat veteran, and it was setup with only irons. It was barely on paper at 50y, and I'm talking a poster target. Couldnt believe he had that thing as a defensive gun and it was so far off.
I like my iron sights and a flashlight. But i do have a red dot or two. They are ok sometimes. Good video Reid. Life is better on the ridge
I love the retro style carry handle type rifles
I just close my eyes and spray and pray....lol
I run a aimpoint micro. But when I shoot anything over 100yds I look through my back sight and use my red dot, it sharpens up the dot and crips it up... I have bad astigmatism try it out it works!
I recently purchased a rifle and I really want to learn the iron sights first before I out an optic on it. I have hunted game all my life, I'm 44 years old, and I'm just getting in to the AR-15 platform. I have ordered some ammunition and plan on learning the platform as best I can.
I put a cheap tasco propoint red dot on my Ruger mark III Hunter 22 pistol because the iron sights would completly hide Squirrels when I would Squirrel hunt with it ,the red dot really made all a big change in the outcome of a hunt for me .I bagged over 40 Squirrels that season with that pistol .I have went too a Bushnell handgun scope and it shoots even tighter groups with that .but the red dot really was a help for me when I needed it.
Tzit tzit; awesome. Good work, Brother.