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What's Games Workshop Doing With Necromunda?
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- Опубліковано 23 бер 2017
- Games Workshop announced a whole bunch of crazy new stuff at the GAMA Trade Show recently, including a replacement for old fan-favorite Necromunda?
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Completely agree. While people in the hobby (myself included) often curse about the money grabbing antics of GW, one just can't ignore the fact that GW is pretty much the driving force in miniatures gaming. Without them the field would be so much narrower. It is their work that allows smaller companies to push their products to an existing market and possibly grow into a market force.
The great thing about miniature gaming is that once you get into it you can pretty easily find new games, products and companies that aren't necessarily GW. But this requires that there are new people entering the hobby to feed the multitude of companies and as a gateway games GW games are pretty great. And I also agree that the direction GW management seems to be going is really smart. So hats off to them on this.
While GW may still be the major player in sci-fi and fantasy gaming they are no longer the only big player in the broader gaming scene. Warlord Games have played a huge part in bringing historical gaming to the more casual player with rules and minis for Bolt Action, Hail Caesar and Black Powder and would have played their part in taking away some of GW's income in recent years. Smaller companies like Studio Tomahawk and Osprey are also presenting great skirmish rules that will compete with GW's new skirmish rules.
I agree. Getting back from AdeptiCon last night, I was able to see it first hand. Thanks for watching!
I disagree. They no longer drive the market as much. GW has lost more than 45% of the market. Their sales are down again this year.
Roope Ollikainen I agree also.
I can't imagine that the core charm of Necromunda - the claiming of territories, the income, the development of your warband - are going to be present in this new version. Why do Space Marines need to live in a junkyard? Why do Necrons need income? How does a Grey Knight expect to get a resupply?
I think what will decide this for me is if they update the gang rules - perhaps in a way similar to the "Teams of Legend" for Blood Bowl. If I could choose to play my Goliath gang again, for instance, I'd get the models second-hand if need be. That's what GW's basically expecting for those BB teams anyhow.
But what I don't need, is more of 40k. Kill Team got me back into it but that ruleset makes more sense for the types of squads you'd use. Necrons in the Underhive, though? I'm not yet sold on this whole thing. We'll have to wait and see.
I'd be glad to be wrong - it would be a delight if the new rules are just an amazingly fun way to play with models I've already got - but I'm hard pressed to imagine the how.
Well, this setting is on Armageddon, and from what I understand that place is always besieged by war. Thanks for watching!
They could just make all the old pewter gangs available again by mail order. Easy. There's obviously a demand for them, just look at the prices.
Maybe that's something they'll consider. Thanks for watching!
I'd definitely like Arbites, they can be used in 40K I think though from what I can tell the only mini's for them are from Necromunda / or the Judge Dredd game they also made. Not sure if Dredd is worth rebooting for them at that rate.
Im absolutely delighted that Necromunda/Shadow War is back. The source materials for all the original gangs and game types are all online so I'm sure that those of us who kept a hold of our gangs will be able to cobble together scenarios where Tau are facing off against Spyrers, Orlocks against Genestealers and House Delaque finally getting a fight against Orks.
Putting together a Genestealer Cult Gang as we speak. I chose them because I felt like they were the most similar to an old skool Necromunda gang. If I'm being honest with myself, it's also because I could see myself getting a full army of them. SW:A has me stoked about 40k again, which I never thought I'd say. Thanks for another great video.
I'm in exactly the same boat. Thanks for watching!
Yup I'm on board- as is the entire 40k community centered around our local GW store. The store manager has already written a background story and has set up a tournament list for those of us joining. Everyone has picked their Squads and there are no players picking the same race/army, so it will be awesome to say the least! Thumps up from the Netherlands!
Sounds like you have a great community. Thanks for watching!
A well thought out commentary on Games-workshop's new stance of giving the customer what they really want. It's good to see them finally rebuilding their contact with their products users. It is still going to take some time before the community can honestly scrutinize their new releases without a negative knee-jerk reaction. You're a voice of reason in the grim darkness.
+Bill Penney "A voice of reason in the grim darkness." I should put that on my business cards. Thanks for watching!
Just a little info for you my friend. This was the last year GAMA was in Vegas, first year in Reno is next year. GW returned to GAMA in 2012. Yes there are distributors there, along with retail store owners and managers as well as manufacturers.
Reno is nice; "Biggest little city in the world". When I first read the byline, I thought "...probably nothing, since they abandoned the Specialist line or screwing it up". Good analysis.
As someone who swore off GW a long ago, they are making it hard for me to stay mad at them.
From what was explained in the video, I like this. I was never a fan of the gangs, and I like the idea of urban combat much more than blobs of units trading fire over long distances. It's also an easier to talk people into playing a war game that fits in a box and can be picked up in minutes.
I too swore off GW ages ago.. and I too am tempted .. I actually tried to go pick up Kill Team and the store was out and came home with AOS starter set instead (which I have enjoyed working on but haven't played)... The idea of a flexible small scale game using older versions of 40K rules (2nd or 3rd edition) with 12 army lists that include all the cool cultists and niche armies (harlequins, wych gangs) as well as letting me use some scouts or chaos marines or imperial guard... does sound like a gateway drug back to 40K ... very scary!
I know what you mean. It's going to be interesting. Thanks for watching!
On one hand, I understand the charm of necromunda. It was a very small scope in a game that was refreshing for 40k. It has its own blanchitsu charm that puts the grimdark in 40k. However on the other hand, I understand it has a very small appeal, especially for people who want to involve their own armies and races. This keeps the original necromunda, but broadens its scope to widen the appeal, and I think it's a good compromise.
That's a good way to look at it. I agree. Thanks for watching!
As someone new to the hobby, that never played nercomunda, I am super excited about this.
Have fun at Adepticon.
I started painting miniatures when Heroquest came out in the 80s, and then explored 40k and warhammer - have returned to the hobby and am happy to see GW making many new formats for enjoying the hobby, will be getting this new game and joining in
Great to hear it. Thanks for watching!
Nothing really says that they can't release a pdf that updates the old gangs to the current ruleset as well...would be a nice way to draw in the older players as well as new people to the game
Beat me to the punch, I completely agree! I don't think anyone could expect a full rerelease, but stats for playing the old gangs, mercs and beasts would be a master stroke; maybe even do that one week only online purchase thing they do?
AzraelThanatos I agree. If Shadowwar gains enough support it would be a lot easier for them to release new books for other sectors than Armageddon. Like for example a book that covers Hive Primus. Then those who still own necromunda models can buy the box and the separate book and bam! Necromunda.
I was thinking that too, but how would a group of gangers and juves possibly go up against a pack of marines or Eldar... Guess we'll just have to wait and see the base rules to see how things can be adapted.
Gotta say, I someone who regards Necromunda as my favourite GW game ever, I am a bit excited for Shadow War. Probably won't bother with the box set as the minis don't appeal to me at all, and the "scenery" isn't enough to fill a table out, but will definitely pick up the rules from somewhere.
Well it seems like the Marine gangers will be Scout base with some power armoured specialists. If Guard can take that on, why not the gangs?
+Smith Jones Do you have a source on that? Because I haven't read anything else than the rules being based on Necromunda.
I've got it! Give us a "Shadow Wars: Necromunda" supplement with the gang stats and fluff; let it live in the new era, you don't need to print any new models, just provide updated rules; the fans will buy every damn copy of that book!
I'll certainly bet that fans will release rules for that right after the game goes live. Thanks for watching!
I picked up the April 2017 White Dwarf to learn more about this for myself and seeing a battle report made it all click for me. It looks REALLY GOOD and will make it easy for me to do short games with the newer players I've been helping, as well as convincing friends of mine who have been still playing Necromunda for years to check it out. Kill Team and Combat Patrol were also great for short 40-60 minute games and with this to throw with it too on the same scenery is awesome for more short games between those weekend long mega point games.
That was a pretty good battle report. Thanks for watching!
The thing I like most about what I'm hearing of Shadow War: Armageddon is that if I want to play a team for which I have no models (like Necrons), I don't have to spend an arm and a leg to hop on board. Plus, from GW's perspective, even if I'm only buying one additional squad kit, that's still a kit I wouldn't have otherwise purchased.
Very good point, and I'm pretty sure that their plan. Thanks for watching!
Update: My FLGS has received a Preview package from GW for Shadow War: Armageddon. It contains the rule book, some wristbands, some rules reference sheets, some army lists and a few other things that I can't remember right now. All the printed material is very well done and the rules reference sheet and army lists sheets are printed on good card stock. They are not fooling around with this thing. I am very excited to see this being released.
Good point raised Uncle Atom. It will be interesting to see where they go with the fluff to explain why there are small groups of different races in the underhive.
I love the extra warning about products, considering the expense of these things a week just isn't long enough to prepare, especially with the box games as they often aren't on sale for long so I want to get them quick, but cant just drop £100 with no notice. GW are changing!
For the better. Thanks for watching!
Yeah, I think this is a really ingenious way to rerelease an old game like Necromunda. A new take on the old setting, using existing 40K models that people have or can buy (perhaps in their Start Collecting or new squad/vehicle boxes), while still using the old rules that old timers remember. I think it's a perfect compromise of factors and hope it's as fun to play as it looks.
Yeah, I think it was a really smart move on their part. Thanks for watching!
Honestly, I played a lot of 40k back in the day. I still have numerous armies sitting in various states of "thrown in a box in the closet" disrepair, and I can't afford to get back into the game on a full scale. It's just too expensive for me right now. So, this kind of thing could really work to scratch that itch. It's enough that a friend and I could build a few guys, play some games, have some fun, and we wouldn't be spending thousands of dollars to build the biggest and coolest army in the store.
While it's a good way to get people back into the game, it's also a great way to get new people into the game.
I definitely dig it.
I totally agree. I think it was their intention, as well. Thanks for watching!
Necromunda was always my favourite ruleset but I always wanted to use more interesting factions in it. Win-win. Though Tau Stealth Suits really need to be usable. And Eldar Warp Spiders.
This video seems like the perfect follow up to that question I asked you a couple of weeks ago. Great info, and its something I'll definitely be checking out.
I'll make it over to the States for Adeptacon one day...
It's certainly a great time. Thanks for watching!
My first WH40k purchase was the Kill Team box based on community recommendations. I am seriously going to consider this after a great analysis of what we know so far. Thanks Atom. LWP
And you'll probably be able to use the figures from Kill Team for Shadow War: Armageddon, as well. Thanks for watching!
Wed in Vegas, divorce in Reno.
played a lot of Necromunda first time round so am massively looking forward to this new variation, especially that plastic scenery.
I love that they are breathing new life into one of the classics, even if only in slight homage. Gangs aren't dead either, just fresh ground for moders and the true enthusiast ; )
First -- yeah, a bit disappointed that new Ganger sprues/frames are not going to hit the street with this... but (go to 2nd)
2nd - Ecstatic that we're getting something like this! My main 'Gang' was Genestealer Cults that I constantly had to convince my opponent(s) to allow. Now, I don't. I'm in.
Who knows -- perhaps things will roll along good enough that we will indeed see new stuff for the classic Gangs over time.
This is most certainly a step in the right direction and it's something I can see at my club for a long time. Heck, we'll break out our old terrain and gangs too. Can't Wait!
I have a strong suspicion that they'll eventually release a free rules PDF for the gangers. Thanks for watching!
As an old school Necromunda fan, I'm so excited for this. WIll be pre-ordering as soon as I can.
Glad to hear it. Thanks for watching!
Anything to try and get my friends playing again :D
I think that's their plan. Thanks for watching!
As someone who is very interested in necromunda ( I was born 1993 so i never had the chance to actually try it ) i really liked what they did here. I currently play 40k and Kill Team and trying to get people in the hobby is alot easier with Kill Team but i feel like Kill Rules lack something. The RPG elements and progression from Shadow of War / Necromunda might be the fix for that which will get alot more people into the game. More people = More fun :)
I think it'll be fun. Thanks for watching!
The thing I remember making Necromunda so amazing (to me) was the fact that you where controlling the lowlives of the universe. The characters was horrible, the equipment completely trash and yet it all developed character over time. Rolling for injuries after a game was horrifying, knowing there IS a slight chance my favourite ganger will be permanently damages or even DIE!! :O
And having the amazing luck of scavenging a "one in a million bolder" that NEVER JAMS!! So much joy!
There was some form of scenario where several gangs team up to try and take on a single space marine who for whatever reason ventured down into the underhive....It was damn near impossible!
Damn fond memories of that game.
I recently picked up Kill Team, not as an intro to 40k but as a sci-fi skirmish game in its own right. I'm extremely happy about Shadow War because it looks to be even more like what I wanted out of Kill Team.
Exactly, same here. Thanks for watching!
I'm really excited about that news. I've always wanted to play Necromunda but never had the chance. Also great news for me me as I just bought Kill Team last weekend. :D
Thanks for the awesome news and the always awesome channel!
Glad you're getting into it. Thanks for watching!
Hey I am pretty new to the hobby, and this seems like an awesome way to get new people in. I've tried to show people 40k but it's hard to explain armies and points and factions and THEN the actual game. I look forward to being able to just pull out a box and say pick a squad and let's do this! Once the dice start rolling, they'll get the itch for sure.
I think that's their plan, certainly. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the vid Uncle Atom. When I first heard of this I was disappointed there are no gangs in the box, but the Necromunda rules are fantastic and I am pretty stoked for the to come out.
I bet someone will come up with rules for the old gangs. Thanks for watching!
Being able to build up a collection slowly, using them in different games as is why I love Warhammer Quest and AoS so much.
Buy a plastic character model, odds are you can use it as a Hero in Silver Tower and / or Shadows over Hammerhal. Buy an unit to go with it and suddenly you've started the basis of an AoS force.
Clever GW, clever!
I think that's their idea. Thanks for watching!
It's always a safe move to release the practically the same game under a new name. If they called it Necromunda, they have way more things to screw up. Longtime fans will pick it apart and point out every little thing since it's their baby. With a new line they have the change to fix and tweak things as new versions/expansions release.
This video raised the Pa-chow! to video ratio.
"While you watch this I will be at Adepticon" Hahahaha well played, sir. Please, make a video with the stuff about Games Workshop's news you find out there!
Consider this: If this is "Shadow War: Armageddon" then this is the first in a product line.
Nothing really stops them from using this to get the rules out there, then releasing further Shadow War boxes down the line.
Such as, say... "Shadow War: Necromunda."
Good point. Thanks for watching!
I dropped out of Warhammer 40k about v5 of the rule set. I was just done with all the special rules. You had to have the core game the codex of both yours and your opponents armies. If this streamlines some of those special rules and gives me an idea of how V8 I may pick it up. But the thing about Necromunda that I loved was the fact that it wasn't your standard 40k armies. I guess we will see how it goes.
While I love the original gangs, I just got a ton of Genestealer Cultists and I'm dying to do some small stuff with the ones I have before 8th ed eventually hits. I loved the Necromunda rules and gang progression the most, so that aspect is what I wanted most, and not having to buy a bunch of new models is a mercy on my wallet.
I could see myself getting some of those, too. Thanks for watching!
Maybe they'll introduce new gangs, since the main game takes place in the underhives of Armagedon instead of Necromunda's. Could be an interesting story arc, and could give some new lore into the War for Armagedon. While massed waves of soldiers are blasting away at each other on the toxic surface and these Shadow War kill teams are going deep underground behind enemy lines, the few collectives of battered and deprived residents still living in the contested underhives struggle to survive.
Maybe via ForgeWorld, I suppose. Thanks for watching!
They've been doing a great, at least I think! With Shadow over Armageddon, I will be able to play just for fun and without learning a ton of rules, the Karadrons Overlords and the Death Guard are beautiful and the fact that they recolt feedback for Warhammer Shadespire is a terrific idea, I really love the game ideas and the two warbands.
I'm really happy that now they act as a company which is close to his fan base, and the decisions they've been making with the announcements of new game and new miniatures way before they release them is one step forward because it was annoying to search for dirty pictures on website to know about the future of the different tabletop game, and it drives me crazy.
So what a time to be in the hobby =)
I got into 40k last year at Adepticon and my first 2 purchases were Shadow War: Armageddon and the Start Collecting: Nexrons. Great cid and keep up the good work.
Really hoping that the rule book is going to be available separately. If you already have scenery and models you could jump right in which would be great.
If I had to guess, it might be available digitally, like Kill Team was. Thanks for watching!
I like the terrain in the box! looks like it can be used with other terrain sets. Gonna be awesome!
Seeing the terrain really got me excited; I'm planning on chopping a tonne of Deadzone terrain I bought from a mate, combined with my own into several 1-2' sections of modular stackable scenery, to produce my own hive! The challenge will be making it detailed, allowing for player access and visibility, and providing fire lanes and tank movement while keeping the scenery dense. I may only have the Shadow War scenery as a small section, but it's inspired what may be my most ambitious hobby project ever!
Yeah, the terrain looks pretty cool. Thanks for watching!
Nercro was and still is my favorite GW game. So pumped for this.
The thing that will be a deciding factor for me with Shadow War is what I need to play it in terms of books. If I need to pick up a codex for every faction that will kill it for me as I have little interest in playing 40K. That may change with the new edition but really I don't play games of that scale anymore, it really needs to be a fully self contained ruleset otherwise I'm out.
As a relatively newcomer I think that this is a good move from GW to attract new people to the hobby.
I agree with you. Thanks for watching!
Excellent news! Necromunda finally returns! (Or should we say Confrontation, or even Laserburn?)
Aside from the clear change if attitude to IP this represents, Rountree is definately shaking up the GW tree. With product previews they are basically doing what the rest of the industry and their stablemate, Forge World, having been doing as BAU. When I've been to Warhammer 40,000 open days and events in the UK there is such a contrast at the audience Q&A between GW and FW. With the former you would get polite but firm "we can't answer that" responses and most of the audience just figured the game and asked questions about everything other than what people wanted to actually know, just to try get something out of the session. Contrast with FW where they told you what they were working on with pictures and then gave you a list of stuff on the to do list that they didn't have anything yet to show. Then if you asked them questions about other ideas you would get a straight answer, it was like chalk and cheese.
Thanks for the video and enjoy Adepticon :)
While I would have preferred the gangs of old, you make a good point about using 40K models - it makes it much easier for them to supply the game and it means we have full faction support on release day, which is pretty nice too.
I have to say, I haven't bought any GW stuff in 14 years or so but if Shadow War: Armageddon is coming with the full Necromunda campaign system, then I am in.
I'm in, too. Thanks for watching!
it's a shame that they haven't updated the rules tbh, it would have been a great chance to trial run the new 8th rules on a small scale. great video fella!
You said it's not worth it for GW to make an entire new line of models for this specialist game... But that's exactly what they're doing with bloodbowl and look how well that's doing!
+Cai Warner Exactly. They're already doing it with Blood Bowl (and pretty slowly, I might add - they're only able to release a new team every month or so) so they can't really afford to crank out a bunch of new gang sculpts at the same time. They chose to put more effort into Blood Bowl because they believe it'll be more likely to pay off. Plus, getting people to buy normal 40k minis to play Shadow War will probably lead at least some of them to playing regular 40k. If those people bought gangs instead, that would probably be less likely. Thanks for watching!
I'm cool with this, my first real game was GorkaMorka. I don't know if they are going to include rules for light vehicles but that is all that would be missing from it to basically play that again.
Count me among the happy! And agreed: a game that lets people play after only making a single squad of models is a great gateway. I was happy with Kill Team, but this is pretty cool, too.
You're very right. Thanks for watching!
GW understands one thing what killed fantasy was cost a new army will cost you a ton and most don't have that type of cash .
That is the genuine with games like bloodbowl or killteam you buy the box and your done you can play .
but theirs more to expand the game it not going need you to remortgage the house .
Thanks for the vid. I can totally see why they're doing it the way they are. I was so hyped when I heard that Necromunda would be coming back, as it was the game that got me into miniatures back in the day. But I'm now super disappointed that they are doing it this way. The coolest thing about Necromunda was the awesome gangs that were separate to 40k, and gave the game a really unique feel. So to hear now that it's just squads of 40k models, I ain't really interested. Yeah I know it makes sense, but as an old school Necromunda fan, I just wish they were bringing the gangs back. I mean how cool would new models of Delaque, Escher, Goliath etc have been?! Or even totally new gangs!!
Treks i'm totally with you. highly disappointed. if i want to play small style regular 40k armys, i can do this without a"new game". just play smaller armys or kill team. hoped so much for the gangs to reappear!
Probably already know this by now. Halfway through summer they announced an actual necromunda that can be played 2D on a board or 3D on a gaming table
It makes a lot of sense to use existing 40k factions rather than releasing new gangs for a box game. This will probably get me to dip my toe back in the 40k universe
Same here. Thanks for watching!
Interesting thing there is currently PC game based on "Necromunda" in development called "Necromunda: Underhive Wars".
Guys behind "Mordheim: City of the Damned" making it soo there is a high chance it's gonna be good and pretty accurate.
I'm familiar with the Mordheim game, I hadn't heard of the Necromunda version. Interesting. Thanks for watching!
Whilst I never played Necromunda, I remember reading a white dwarf issue that was revealing models for a gang called the Ash Waste Nomads. I thought they were really cool. I might try converting some chaos cultist models and skitari models and fielding them as Nurgle cultists in this new iteration. Anyone else going to try something similar with the other necromunda gangs? I appreciate some people will really want gang models and rules, but this could be a nice compromise?
Having just recovered my old 90s GW stock from my parents attic, I am more than happy to see a return to something akin to Necromunda! In my opinion, this is exactly what I was hoping for from Kill Team, small scale skirmish based games, stripped down, quick and dirty... what I got with Kill Team was two unbalanced squads and the 40k 7th ed rules... Not cool for someone who's last proper game of 40k was back in 2nd ed!
Basically, I'm excited. I love GW's lore, I love GW's minis, I've not liked GW's rules for some time when there are companies out there like FFG, Mantic and Warlord making awesome games without the bloat that surrounds a lot of GW's stuff these days.
It'll be interesting to see how it works out. Thanks for watching!
'They can't do Necromunda again, they would have to remake all the gangs and that would take a really long time"
Man that was a huge rational miss 😂
It would be good If GW released some generic plastic gang members for Shadow War. I'd like to field an army of them in 40k
I completely agree! I want to start a turf war between my Goliaths and Genestealer Cult, I reckon both could just about use Guard or Cult rules.
Robert Wallace is there any PDF or civilian models in W40k? Other then chaos cultists and genestealer cults?
There used to be Sisters Of Battle metal militia in blister packs; I reckon they're pretty rare these days. Other than that, I think you'll struggle for civvies, there's lots of Imperial Guard and alternative sculpts for PDF troops though.
It's a shame they didn't do their roleplay in 28mm like Iron Kingdoms or Infinity, they both flesh out their wider world nicely.
Dominic Davis-Foster That's what I'm thinking. A conversion sprue to Cultists and a Rule Supplement would probably be simplest addition. Although I do miss the Sisters Mobs to go against Chaos. :)
the problem is the plastic molds they use are incredibly expensive, so they probably thought not enough people would be interested to justify making new mold.
I have no problem convincing people to *play* 40k,(borrowing a spare army of mine) they just say "no effing way man" after being told they need to spend £600 minimum for an army. Gone are the days of buying 100 Space Marines for less than £90
I started playing in the days where it was actually affordable, as in attending secondary school affordable.
(Even then my Dad used to call me crazy for spending the equivalent of £0.75 per normal Space Marine)
I remember when a ten man Tactical Squad was *increased* to £12.50, Rhino Transports were £12.50 at the time too.
Games Workshops tactic over the last 15 years has been based on;
1--Accountant A: "We are not selling enough stuff to keep the company running!"
2--Accountant B: "Just increase the prices of the models!"
3--Accountant A: "We are still not making enough revenue!"
4--Accountant B: "Reduce the amount of models in the boxes so people have to buy more to make an army!"
5--Accountant A: "Still not enough!"
6--Accountant B: "Moar price increases to compensate falling sales!"
*Return to line 1*
I genuinely wonder what would happen to Games Worksop if they just made it £1 per guy.
People would buy bloody loads, feel like they were getting good value, tell their friends,
friends buy some because its a fun game with massive armies etc.
3D printers are now thankfully only £200....
well, a good reason for gw to not bring the old gangs back is: one time production-costs, many times people buying models. if i started playing that game, i'd be new to it and I wouldn't care if it was a necromunda without gangs, as long as it plays well.
Production costs are pretty high for models of that quality. Thanks for watching!
GAMA Trade Show moves to Reno next year. This year's was still in Vegas. We tried to make the most of it because Reno ain't no Vegas.
Huh, I guess I got that wrong. Thanks for watching!
After playing some games, it is actually fun, after looking at Necromunda, they fit together the extremely well. you can still play Gangs from the old rules and it works fine. You can even still play the campaign and use the new Charts for upgrades and it works just fine.
+Josh Maddux I've been hearing they're pretty compatible. Thanks for watching!
My Local Club actually did 100+ test games (we had a system with Modifiers and dices rolls to see what tam would win and how many models would be taken out of action) we are confedent that they work well enough together that we are doing a Shadow War Campaign with Necromunda Campaign rules.
If you get a skill use shadow war skill chart, armies lists stay the same from the same books, but all updated rules are also from Shadow war. The Money/Terrain you own for money and exp will all stay the same.
Hoefully we will have the 9 boxes of terrain done many armies painted for video BatReps in the next 2 weeks.
I'm surprised and yet not; let me explain. What I'm surprised about is that GW is continuing this trend (and its a good trend) of trying to make themselves and their products more accessible and "customer friendly" given everything they were doing (or weren't doing, as it were) only a few years ago; I'm not surprised that they're reintroducing an older "specialist" game updated and, I guess, "re-branded" for lack of a better term since it seems to be a trend for them lately as well. Now I'll be the first to admit that I never played Bloodbowl or Necromunda - I have nothing against them, it was more a question of budget and what game was being played more locally - but I'm personally glad they're bringing back these "specialist" games; not only are they a great gateway into the hobby, they also provide a more relaxed alternative away from the possible stresses of building, painting and fielding an army that's perfect for a small group of friends to play. This is only my opinion, but I sincerely believe this is the way they're going to get more people coming in to the hobby; a lot of potential customers/players are still gun shy about army scale games because of the price barrier and time investment, and while the price barrier has been reduced it only partially assuages those fears. Something like Bloodbowl, or Kill Team, or Shadowwar represents a much smaller time investment and may be the final tipping point for a lot of people who were still on the fence.
This all begs the question, of course (or at least it does for me, and other Mordheim fans); will we see a Mordheim-esque game on the horizon anytime soon? I think it would be amazing if they did something like what they did for Shadowwar; update the rules (probably making them more streamlined in the process) and offer a boxed set with a couple of warbands and some plastic terrain and then make available rules on how to incorporate other, existing miniatures/factions into the game for those who might just want to use existing miniatures for playing the game.
I wonder if there'll be an Age of Sigmar-like Mordheim remake. Thanks for watching!
Tabletop Minions I think that would be awesome.
8th was announced at Adepticon so my guess is Kill Team will be updated with a new rule book
Yeah, they talked about some stuff in the presentation on Wednesday night. Cool stuff. We'll see how it goes. Thanks for watching!
I don't think prepainted models would be ever an option. Color coded plastic minis that don't require glue to assemble (like in the new AoS "starter box") is what they are aiming for entry level stuff.
It sounds like it'll be like that with the new Shadespire game. Thanks for watching!
As someone who already has pretty much the complete range of 95-97 necromunda figures. I wish they brought back the old game. I will accept this as a substitute and use the terrain either way. GW did something right for once IMO.
Yeah, I think it'll turn out well for them. Thanks for watching!
I like the idea of using more factions with its rules rather than the gangs, tho it might be nice to get rules for gangs don the line. Tho one thing I would say is its not a simplified form of 40k if anything I would say its more complicated, it was based on 2nd edition. Since its a skirmish game you can make it a little more complicated since its a low model count it won't bog the game down like it would with a ton of models on table.
I have being flirting with starting on infinity, since I like the small customisable skirmish games. But I prefer the models that games workshop creates, and I love my little skitarii army.
Kill team is great, but the team creation was way to simple for me to actually enjoy. And I really miss stuff like the 'overwatch' rule that infinity have.
So I think that shadow war is like a dream come true for me.
I think it'll be cool. Thanks for watching!
I think it looks great but would at least like to see updated rules for the gangs so the vets could play with them in game
After playing around 4 or 5 matches of Armageddon, I've noticed that snipers dominate the game. It's pretty much the main meta to use if you want to win.
Snipers, huh? See, around here, it's been more plasma. Thanks for watching!
"It will take a long time to make new molds for all the factions"
They do it with Blood Bowl as well though, and you don't need all factions right from the start.
For me, abandoning the gang aspect of this game makes it extremely unappealing right from the start. I already can play 40k and 40k Kill Team with my "regular" 40k minis. Having gang warfare within the 40k universe was always unique, now its just your classic Space Marines against XXX.
Yeah, they just spent on one special project and are letting that play out. If ShadowWar is popular, they likely will release new ganger models for it. But you don't need new ganger models to get the ball rolling. These efforts are all about drawing in new players. If the priority was pandering to older players, we wouldn't have AoS.
I imagine if there is enough demand for it (from what I've seen so, yeah!) they could release an updated necromunda rulesheet and some plastic minis like the Chaos and genestealer cultists. Also I imagine if you put some thought into it you could adapt the rules yourself to fit around gangs which can be made from GW and other companies miniatures. Frostgrave cultists for example.
Or maybe the Frostgrave Barbarians, too. With bolters and lasguns. Thanks for watching!
the fact that GW doing normal business things is considered 'crazy' says volumes about how poorly run it was previously.
Why not do something special (competition, gang styles etc) ? I think Necromunda can get us many more new players.
I like your style. Can't wait to go through more of your videos.
+lhn6856 I appreciate it. Thanks for watching!
The Scenery alone has me sold. Deff pre ordering this tomorrow.
GW have a tradition of doing sets for sale in non-specialised stores with simplified rules to lure new players in, Space Crusade, Space Hulk, etc...
Funny how Warhammer 40k has been knocked off the top spot as the biggest seller to X-wing in the US, and now they seem to be leaking and revealing New products at US Conventions rather than their own Warhammer Fest/Open Days in the UK.... :P
The X wing market and the GW market are very different groups. It's like saying a niche restaurant isn't selling as much foood as McDonalds. 40k might be big but it's not "ruin Christmas by spamming every TV network with advertisements" big.
They're closer than you think since theyre both miniatures games.
The point I'm making isn't about GW trying to get step into the X-wing market. its the fact that 40k has been the biggest seller in the US for years and was recently knocked back by X-wing. So GW need to build up the US Fanbase back up - and this is probably why theyre showing so much at conventions like GAMMA and Adepticon.
We'll have to wait and see but if it's following the necromunda style rules, maybe the profiles and abilities with the current necromunda gang will be backwards compatible with the new game
There was just no way in hell people were going to tolerate another game with new miniatures and rules. Using the models you've already bought is ABSOLUTELY THE BEST possible way to reboot the system. The miniature gaming field is just way too complicated, but you're only adding additional value to your models by giving players alternate modes of play.
I agree. Thanks for watching!
I agree with the broad strokes. I wonder, though, if GW is finally seeing financial opportunities in smaller scale games, which seem hot at the moment. By a similar token, I wonder if they're seeing some threat from, oh, I don't know, Infinity.
And Malifaux and Bolt Action and the Batman Game and MERCS and Aliens vs. Predator and Wrath of Kings and all the other great skirmish games out there right now. Probably. Thanks for watching!
Tabletop Minions - I try to keep my commentary to a minimum for any video I remark on but I must say one more thing. I am fairly disappointed that GW resorted to the 2nd ed 40k rules as the engine for this game. It really was my least favorite of the rules sets. I understand why they did it, I think: more detail, the original rules set Necromunda (and GorkaMorka!) was based on. Still, I think it's clunky, and being retro does not make it cool. Moreover, I think GW missed a FANTASTIC opportunity to do something all (well, most) of the games we cited do well: something other than the 'you-go-I-go' turn. Lastly, if this is an indication that 8th ed is going back to a 2nd ed rules-style, well ... they can count me out.
I definitely got into 40k at the right time. I keep hearing stories about how people have been waiting decades for X Y or Z from GW.
Right now is an amazing time to get into GW stuff. Thanks for watching!
It's so nice for GW to be returning to sane behavior. Looking at the "totally not a necromunda" remake, I think I might want to just take that ruleset for unit stats, throw everything else in the wastebin, and use that instead to play 40k skirmish matches.
Course I could always just download a PDF of 2e and print it off.
Very insightful video. I haven't purchased any GW products for a while now for many reasons. I was starting a guard army a few years ago but it ran out steam. But really the Armageddon era was a deal breaker for me. When GW released Armageddon I had a "I see what you did there" moment. I have always thought of Warhammer 40k as a skirmish game since the Rogue Trader days. Yeah you could field a large number of miniatures in a battle but the system broke down. When I saw images of Armageddon armies with there ridiculous amounts of miniatures played on large, but not large enough, tables I gave up in despair. I do prefer the smaller more focused skirmish style games and I think the current market trends agree with that. I like the direction GW is taking and this has at least made an old grognard take a new look at GW products.
Glad to hear you're thinking about it. Thanks for watching!
GW are also going to the UKGE this year which should be interesting, I go every year and I'm looking forward to seeing what they bring. Last year was the first time FFG turned up and I think they are coming back this year too, hope they don't end up having a Gangs of New York-esque throwdown in the car park ... or maybe I do.
Maybe a West Side Story-esque dance battle. That'd be cool. Thanks for watching!
I love some of the newer FW models, I have a Belladonna coming in the mail n can't wait! I'll probably use her as I have with my other Escher gals as chaos cultists for my night lords army .
Necromunda was amazing. I think this will be good it's what Killteam needs. Maybe they'll do gangs if it's a hit!
Great video Atom - however, could GW be making a longer play here? Could this be the first step to a full relaunch of Necromunda proper? I can imagine GW using Shadow Wars: Armageddon as a gateway game for getting fresh blood and existing 40k players into GW skirmish - "Hey try this new game and just use your existing models!" Once GW proves Shadow Wars: Armageddon is viable and has a fresh legion of followers for skirmish it can then reliably invest in the moulds etc for a new larger installment 'Shadow Wars: Necromunda' with new gangs, and sell that to its new skirmish fans. GW then has a path for fresh blood into a larger skirmish game and also 4Ok. I only play Necromunda - so this may be me being hopeful - that said i have my gangs and a strong core of local players at a club that runs Necromunda campaigns so we'll keep playing the original game even if this Shadow Wars: Armageddon is as far as a relaunch of Necromunda goes. Win win because we can use the game as a gateway to get fresh blood into our campaigns (and bring new players back to the old rules) 😆
While I understand what GW is doing in trying to bring in "new blood", I do feel that they are doing a bit of a disservice to the more seasoned players that have supported them through the years. Part of the charm of Necro, is that while in the 40k universe, it was completely removed from the standard 40k battles and races. The gangs felt more like what was happening to the regular people having to exist in the war-torn imperium, not just more overpowered superboys or IG. With the narrative aspect, it brought the whole thing down to a more personal level, where each fig had a name, and a history as the games went on.
I also understand that while GW is moving away from metal figs, I see no reason why they can't let Forge World run wild with it, or at the very least, release a limited run of the originals. The prices for older figs on the secondary market clearly show there is a built-in base for that. As the main game my group plays. this is definitely a disappointment, but considering the direction GW has been heading, it is not really surprising.
Just to chime in from PC gaming land - there is also a Necromunda Turn Based Strategy game coming to the PC from the team behind Mordiniem. Should be fun!
Sold out in the web store. I swear I heard that you may be able to use the old gangs with little to no modification...that's how close the rules are.
It could be. Or there will be someone who releases some conversion stats. Thanks for watching!
Totally agree. Thanks Atom! :)