Recently I bought big DMT extra coarse diamond plate. It is very good for repairing worn out edge before sharpening. A couple of strokes and it is ready. Very impressed.
i have one of those and you are right, it does cut fast for what it is. they work good for laying an edge back, i am not sure how they would compare to the crystolon for thinning out a whole blade bevel though.
To much friablity of a stone will work against you and plow the apex. The late Cliff Stamp addresses this in one of his timeless videos about 3 body abrasion and when it's useful and when it's counter productive. So true when you stated every stone and steel reacts differently. Your videos are and will be timeless as well Joe. Thank you for you contributions to the community!
thank you for the kind words! yes the softer stones can plow the apex, but nothing cuts as agressively as a softer coarse stone besides power equipment. and a soft stone is usually way cheaper and easier to get into and use for most folks.
Appreciate the recommendation and example of the coarse Norton Crystolon. I just bought a 8x3 on Amazon to use for thinning out Spydercos as needed. I used a Venev F100 for a while and realized it doesn't cut as quick and is a bit of a waste of such a nice coarse sharpening stone to eat it up on brute force thinning jobs. The Crystolon seems to be both fast and affordable, which is all the boxes ticked for a thinning/reprofiling stone.
congrats on the new stone! I did not know that they came in an 8x3. the crystolon really is a tough stone to beat for all around shaping and even regular sharpening.
Thanks for the tutorial, patiently and well explained . A cmall tip for you, is that you kept clearing your throat quite often, I had the same malady.; went to the head of a throat and lung institution. His advixe to me was to swallow instead of clearing ny throat . The saliver that the body produces, is ment to lubricate the throat. In time the roughnessin went. Hope this sorts out your problem.
Very good description of the silicon carbide stones, and thank you for the comparison to the king 220/1000. My favorite rough stone at the moment is naniwa pink 220 Thanks for the content!
i dont think I have one of those. i do have the naniwas in i want to say 12k, 8k, and 6 or 5, and they are great stones, but they cost quite a bit more than the kings if i remember right. and this type of work is hard on stones, so might as well use either what you already have, or the most cost efficient stone you can get :}
Great stuff, my dad would thin out every knife he carried with the cheapest flea market pocket stone he could get and then straight to a translucent ark, it would cut but it looked like a trainwreck and took days for him to do, but that was his way. I only do this sort of thing on mora scandis when they go south, or i will try a little "scandivex" on the edge itself. I am a worksharp guided field sharpener kind of guy now, its just too easy and fast and their new folding pocket model is my latest friend, but sometimes i love my norton silicone carbide and finishing on an ark or two. I rarely go past the soft arkansas anymore, but when i need therapy a good cup of coffee and bench stones will do the trick. Keep up the great content
that is a heck of a jump from a flea market stone to a trans ark. but if it worked for him and he liked it, then that is what he should have done and carried. i typically use one of my belt grinders for regrinds, but not everyone has a couple of those hanging around, and its the same process as with a stone so that is what I showed :}
@@joecalton1449yes he had arkansas stones to do the full progression but did not use them, edge had tooth to say the least but blades were thinned and didn't have the full integrity of a new blade, and thats what took forever he didn't use all the tools he had in the toolbox, the transclucent just was a polisher on a crosscut saw edge, not the best in my opinion but it was what he knew and liked
you might wait till next weeks video, it goes over "laying the edge back" which is like halfway between just sharpening and doing a total regrind. then you can decide which way to go.
I would only do this with Japanese knives with flat bevels meant to be grinded on stones and only on water stones. Even those knives, it's better to do any heavy work with sandpaper. it's faster. easier. easier to control the geometry of the grind. just works better. leaves cleaner and better scratches. overall just better, faster, easier, better results, etc. then if I want a contrasting finish, I will use a friable Japanese waterstone and or natural stones to give it the look that's desired at the end. Sandpaper is the same abrasive used in grinding belts. For heavy grinding I use 3M cubitron. Start with something like 60 grit, and it will cut faster than any stone by a lot, and one sheet handles both sides of the knive without issue. go to 80, 100/120, and then from there decide what you wanna do. Cubitron cuts more aggressive but leaves deep scratches in those low grits. you can use regular ceramic sandpaper or just smooth it out, once you get to 120 grit in any variety it's more smoothing and evening than stock removal. all the stock removal is done with the lower grits. Using stones is slower. harder. messier. takes longer. doesnt leave as good results. and grind away the stone.. which means you gotta keep it flat or work something out. sandpaper can be used on a platen or any shape to give you any geometry you want. I use a platen with a little give and the end result is a perfect shallow-convex bevel. bevel looks flat but has the benefits of slight convex like food release.
Hi Tim, may I ask you some questions? 1) You started your comment by mentioning you would do this process on japanese knives only meant to be ground with water stones only. What do you mean by " meant to be ground with water stones only "? Why couldn't another type of stone be used? 2) Concerning the 3M Cubitron sandpaper, could you please be more specific about what you use in particular (circular perforated sandpaper?) and how you use it / how you mount it on what surface. Thanks a lot in advance for your help.
sure if you wanted to spend the time chasing down all that sandpaper and keeping track of it. folks usually already have a stone. I would really like to see you shoot a video and post it of your method though.
@@S.Vallieres They have so many trade names I might have used ther wrong one. It's the 3m purple stuff. it's a shaped ceramic abrasive and their best technology. they make discs out of it but also sanding sheets and of course belts grinders. I believe Norton has an equivalent product out now was well. Its more aggressive, cuts faster and lasts longer than "normal" ceramic. it's a shaped ceramic. For hand grinding aka non powered, I use sheets. You can even get it home depot. It's the purple 3m stuff, you will notice it costs more than the others. I lay the sheets down on a rubber platen sometimes with a compressible medium in between depending on how much convexity I want on the bevel.
@@TimJohnson-x1o Hi Tim, Thanks a lot for replying and help. How do you hold the sandpaper in place? With one hand while holding and handling the knife with the other? Or do you glue it with something like Super 77? Like Joe, I would also like to see a video on how you proceed, if you got one of course. I've watched many by other using sandpaper over the years and I've never found one that let me think using sandpaper is a better alternative than using stones. Maybe for convex grinds, but I would still use stones for the bulk metal removing and finish with sandpaper over soft backing. And what about " knives meant to be ground with water stones only "? I don't understand why another type of abrasive couldn't be used... I mean, removing metal by manual (as opposed to power grinding) abrasion is removing metal... the metal doesn't care if it's from a japanese water stone or from an american oil stone...
@@S.Vallieres Traditional style Japanese kitchen knives have large flat bevels are designed to be easily maintained for life on waterstones by the user. You just set the bevel down on the surface of the stone and grind away, it's fool proof. The sandpaper can be affixed to platen in a number of ways including clips or even just with the aid of water. The 3m cubitron stuff I'm talking about isn't on a cheap flimsy paper backing like most sandpaper. It has a very durable synthetic backing that seals itself to my platen with nothing more than water. yet the backing does not absorb the water. I've never seen it tear unless you cut into it. Much faster grinding, especially with abrasion resistant steels, and a more consistent surface finish, as well as less mess and not needing to constantly flatten or otherwise maintain the stone are just some of the benefits. I've done it both ways, I find the sandpaper works better. But there's many ways to skin a cat. there is no right or wrong way, only what works and what does not work.
For the magic marker bit, the way it worked the best for me was to let it sit down a bit, to evaporate the solvent it comes with, and test the angle on stone while it's still dry.
i try to stay out of antique stores, as I can get lost in them really easy! same stuff as you listed plus old pocket knives, tongs, hammers, pellet and bb guns, there is just so much to look for :}
chickens are not near as fun as knives, but i was so impressed by the simple green and wood ash treatment on mites that i had to share it in the hopes of helping someone elses chicken and their tender out.
I love to hear tips about mud management and what we can learn from how the mud behaves. Good video 👌
Recently I bought big DMT extra coarse diamond plate. It is very good for repairing worn out edge before sharpening. A couple of strokes and it is ready. Very impressed.
i have one of those and you are right, it does cut fast for what it is. they work good for laying an edge back, i am not sure how they would compare to the crystolon for thinning out a whole blade bevel though.
To much friablity of a stone will work against you and plow the apex. The late Cliff Stamp addresses this in one of his timeless videos about 3 body abrasion and when it's useful
and when it's counter productive. So true when you stated
every stone and steel reacts differently.
Your videos are and will be timeless as well Joe.
Thank you for you contributions to the community!
thank you for the kind words! yes the softer stones can plow the apex, but nothing cuts as agressively as a softer coarse stone besides power equipment. and a soft stone is usually way cheaper and easier to get into and use for most folks.
Appreciate the recommendation and example of the coarse Norton Crystolon. I just bought a 8x3 on Amazon to use for thinning out Spydercos as needed. I used a Venev F100 for a while and realized it doesn't cut as quick and is a bit of a waste of such a nice coarse sharpening stone to eat it up on brute force thinning jobs. The Crystolon seems to be both fast and affordable, which is all the boxes ticked for a thinning/reprofiling stone.
congrats on the new stone! I did not know that they came in an 8x3. the crystolon really is a tough stone to beat for all around shaping and even regular sharpening.
@joecalton1449 It's a good thinning stone, even comes with it's own case/holder. 26 bucks. A patient man could probably do some regrinds with it.
Thanks for the tutorial, patiently and well explained .
A cmall tip for you, is that you kept clearing your throat quite often, I had the same malady.; went to the head of a throat and lung institution. His advixe to me was to swallow instead of clearing ny throat . The saliver that the body produces, is ment to lubricate the throat. In time the roughnessin went. Hope this sorts out your problem.
thank you I will try that :}
Very good description of the silicon carbide stones, and thank you for the comparison to the king 220/1000. My favorite rough stone at the moment is naniwa pink 220
Thanks for the content!
i dont think I have one of those. i do have the naniwas in i want to say 12k, 8k, and 6 or 5, and they are great stones, but they cost quite a bit more than the kings if i remember right. and this type of work is hard on stones, so might as well use either what you already have, or the most cost efficient stone you can get :}
Great stuff, my dad would thin out every knife he carried with the cheapest flea market pocket stone he could get and then straight to a translucent ark, it would cut but it looked like a trainwreck and took days for him to do, but that was his way. I only do this sort of thing on mora scandis when they go south, or i will try a little "scandivex" on the edge itself. I am a worksharp guided field sharpener kind of guy now, its just too easy and fast and their new folding pocket model is my latest friend, but sometimes i love my norton silicone carbide and finishing on an ark or two. I rarely go past the soft arkansas anymore, but when i need therapy a good cup of coffee and bench stones will do the trick. Keep up the great content
that is a heck of a jump from a flea market stone to a trans ark. but if it worked for him and he liked it, then that is what he should have done and carried. i typically use one of my belt grinders for regrinds, but not everyone has a couple of those hanging around, and its the same process as with a stone so that is what I showed :}
@@joecalton1449yes he had arkansas stones to do the full progression but did not use them, edge had tooth to say the least but blades were thinned and didn't have the full integrity of a new blade, and thats what took forever he didn't use all the tools he had in the toolbox, the transclucent just was a polisher on a crosscut saw edge, not the best in my opinion but it was what he knew and liked
Thanks for making this Joe! I will be able to do this to my 940 now and make it cut a little bit better
you might wait till next weeks video, it goes over "laying the edge back" which is like halfway between just sharpening and doing a total regrind. then you can decide which way to go.
A lot of good information. Thanks for the video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excited for this J!
aw shucks, this should be old news for you as much time as you spend sharpening :}
I would only do this with Japanese knives with flat bevels meant to be grinded on stones and only on water stones. Even those knives, it's better to do any heavy work with sandpaper. it's faster. easier. easier to control the geometry of the grind. just works better. leaves cleaner and better scratches. overall just better, faster, easier, better results, etc. then if I want a contrasting finish, I will use a friable Japanese waterstone and or natural stones to give it the look that's desired at the end. Sandpaper is the same abrasive used in grinding belts. For heavy grinding I use 3M cubitron. Start with something like 60 grit, and it will cut faster than any stone by a lot, and one sheet handles both sides of the knive without issue. go to 80, 100/120, and then from there decide what you wanna do. Cubitron cuts more aggressive but leaves deep scratches in those low grits. you can use regular ceramic sandpaper or just smooth it out, once you get to 120 grit in any variety it's more smoothing and evening than stock removal. all the stock removal is done with the lower grits.
Using stones is slower. harder. messier. takes longer. doesnt leave as good results. and grind away the stone.. which means you gotta keep it flat or work something out. sandpaper can be used on a platen or any shape to give you any geometry you want. I use a platen with a little give and the end result is a perfect shallow-convex bevel. bevel looks flat but has the benefits of slight convex like food release.
Hi Tim,
may I ask you some questions?
1) You started your comment by mentioning you would do this process on japanese knives only meant to be ground with water stones only.
What do you mean by " meant to be ground with water stones only "? Why couldn't another type of stone be used?
2) Concerning the 3M Cubitron sandpaper, could you please be more specific about what you use in particular (circular perforated sandpaper?) and how you use it / how you mount it on what surface.
Thanks a lot in advance for your help.
sure if you wanted to spend the time chasing down all that sandpaper and keeping track of it. folks usually already have a stone. I would really like to see you shoot a video and post it of your method though.
@@S.Vallieres They have so many trade names I might have used ther wrong one. It's the 3m purple stuff. it's a shaped ceramic abrasive and their best technology. they make discs out of it but also sanding sheets and of course belts grinders. I believe Norton has an equivalent product out now was well. Its more aggressive, cuts faster and lasts longer than "normal" ceramic. it's a shaped ceramic. For hand grinding aka non powered, I use sheets. You can even get it home depot. It's the purple 3m stuff, you will notice it costs more than the others. I lay the sheets down on a rubber platen sometimes with a compressible medium in between depending on how much convexity I want on the bevel.
@@TimJohnson-x1o
Hi Tim,
Thanks a lot for replying and help.
How do you hold the sandpaper in place? With one hand while holding and handling the knife with the other? Or do you glue it with something like Super 77?
Like Joe, I would also like to see a video on how you proceed, if you got one of course. I've watched many by other using sandpaper over the years and I've never found one that let me think using sandpaper is a better alternative than using stones. Maybe for convex grinds, but I would still use stones for the bulk metal removing and finish with sandpaper over soft backing.
And what about " knives meant to be ground with water stones only "? I don't understand why another type of abrasive couldn't be used... I mean, removing metal by manual (as opposed to power grinding) abrasion is removing metal... the metal doesn't care if it's from a japanese water stone or from an american oil stone...
@@S.Vallieres Traditional style Japanese kitchen knives have large flat bevels are designed to be easily maintained for life on waterstones by the user. You just set the bevel down on the surface of the stone and grind away, it's fool proof. The sandpaper can be affixed to platen in a number of ways including clips or even just with the aid of water. The 3m cubitron stuff I'm talking about isn't on a cheap flimsy paper backing like most sandpaper. It has a very durable synthetic backing that seals itself to my platen with nothing more than water. yet the backing does not absorb the water. I've never seen it tear unless you cut into it. Much faster grinding, especially with abrasion resistant steels, and a more consistent surface finish, as well as less mess and not needing to constantly flatten or otherwise maintain the stone are just some of the benefits. I've done it both ways, I find the sandpaper works better. But there's many ways to skin a cat. there is no right or wrong way, only what works and what does not work.
Joe i gotta tell you. I've got a primitive cut black Arkansas coming from Dan's whetstones. I'm pumped
i would be pumped also. i hear those are cool stones!
Good video, one of the best I like 👍. That's Joe.
thank you for the kind words!
Excellent video 👍
Thank you very much!
Works well on belt grinder too.
heck yes! but not everyone has a belt grinder yet, so I showed it on a simple stone
@@joecalton1449 of course,
Muito bom!
🇧🇷
Man you look good with that new camera I will be ashamed to make videos now.
lol! had I known that a $100 camera would have made me look that good, Id have bought it a long time ago!! :}
For the magic marker bit, the way it worked the best for me was to let it sit down a bit, to evaporate the solvent it comes with, and test the angle on stone while it's still dry.
Whenever I’m in an antique shop I’m looking for cast iron pans, old measuring tools and sharpening stones.
i try to stay out of antique stores, as I can get lost in them really easy! same stuff as you listed plus old pocket knives, tongs, hammers, pellet and bb guns, there is just so much to look for :}
Maybe interested in Indonesian natural Whetstone?
Such a relief to be off chickens and back on knives again. 🙂
chickens are not near as fun as knives, but i was so impressed by the simple green and wood ash treatment on mites that i had to share it in the hopes of helping someone elses chicken and their tender out.