Which TINY WHOOP Batteries are BEST?: Testing NewBeeDrone, GNB, CNHL, Tattu and MORE!
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2024
- If you value my work and want to support more battery testing: patreon.com/chris_rosser
To contact me about battery testing: aos-rc.com
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:23 Test Equipment
2:42 Test Procedure
4:06 Data Analysis
4:36 Open door battery testing!
5:25 Test Results: Energy Delivered (Wh)
6:27 Energy Density (Wh/g)
7:23 Max Power (W)
8:54 Power density (W/g)
9:34 Voltage sag
11:35 Summary scores
12:42 Outro - Наука та технологія
Thanks again for putting the work in! ❤
I'd love to see a comparison of new packs vs. 50cycles vs. 100cycles vs. 150cycles. It would really help people who don't fly as much to get an idea how packs normally degrade.
p.s.: could you add internal resistance?
This really would be a useful metric, could just test the top 4 because well who's going to want any of the others now after seeing these charts?
Tattu by2.0 folded cell, webleedfpv by2.0 and tinywhoop bt2.0 lipos would be nice to see in the test.
Send them in and he'll test them for free! He says so in video...
Thank you for taking the time to do the work and thank you for what you do for the fpv community, its very much appreciated.
While this data is fantastic. The most popular batteries for top pilots are tinywhoop, webleed, nitronectar, and tattu bt2.0 and they are not even on the list. I really don't think there is a reason to test ph2.0 connectors when we know they're worse.
why ph2.0 is worse? im using them
@@PinkeySuavo The resistance of the connector is much worse than something else like BT2.0, A30, or GNB27.
yey it's live... been waiting for it :)
and thanks JB for the equipment !
Thank you, Chris, for all you do some may not like the results, but I do appreciate the testing it really helps me get the most for my money, can't wait to get your motors
Thanks for doing all the science on batteries and in general, Chris! we are making the move over to the a30 plug which seems like a good idea. Surprised by the Newbeedrone. It would be great to see the next tier up on capacities moving into the 450, etc for the next size up whoops. Patreon for FPV ever! Thanks again, Chris 🫡
Thanks for the testing!!
Yes Chris! Finaly someone who wants to test all kinds of batteries. I always feelt like there are difrences but now we are going to getthe facts to prove it!
Fantastic testing and comparison, Chris! Thanks a bunch! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
@marblekitfpv has a video with the real winner!
@@925fpv Yeah, I've seen it! Thanks! 🖖😊
Good job man!
awesome thanks for all the work you do formthe community
Chris, thanks for your vids, much appreciated, Peace🙂
Thanks for the info Chris 👍👍
Thank you so much for this. 🔥💰
This information is absolutely Gold!
@marblekitfpv has a video with the real winner!
Impressive! I think we would love to have look in the intro of each tested cell (a picture of each) to really know which is which at the end. Another thing, 300mah folded cells with plastic head and bt2.0 like tattu’s / webleedfpv are missing from those tests unless we assume they are exactly the same as the nitro nectar ones… who knows?… you may enlighten us in the future
Thanks for sharing.
I would have expected to see ESR numbers with a top notch meter like Wayne Gills meter (consistent down to 0.1mOhm). For my los flying it is the major truth detector instead of the sales C ratings. Of course these need to be tested at the same temp and voltage levels (I suggest storage 3.85v).
Also pack temperature rise after your tests.
And on another topic: battery break in, some say it's snake oil, but in rc car racing, it's a performance advantage if done right, maybe you can validate and bust some myths.
It's whoopin season!!!! Did not expect Tattu to be so far down the list. I love those. Better then the NBD ones. And they are a way better price.
Great video. Thanks. ❤
Glad you enjoyed it!
I would like to see how they perform after 10-20 discharge cycles. Also how they perform if accidenrally overdischarged or stored at non-storage voltage.
Excellent testing strategy and explanation. Having the results publicly available to look at would be kind of nice. A lot of people will be commenting on the different connectors. It would be interesting to do one round testing on a single battery with different connectors. Just to get that trolling out of the way. I think everybody knows PH2 doesn't last as long and all of the other connectors allow for less voltage sag
If you could ever make a video on how to spec motors/props for a frame, I would be eternally grateful. As always, thanks Chris!
Nice!!!! Thank you so much Chris! More whoop stuff please! (Whoop Motors)
As many comments have already been expressed - my personal choice is also Tattu 300 but with a custom plug BT2.0/A30.
I also tested some others and the CNHL Pizza 350 performed very poorly... even with BT2.0 from the factory
Great test, Chris! Thanks a lot. I don't know if it is possible, but if it is, then it would be very useful to make like a durability test, on how does performance decrease over a given number of cycles. I hear sometimes, that a person would get new batteries and they fly amazing, but very soon become unflyable.
That's the ESR number being fine at first, then going to hell.
A big portion of this is how low you take your batteries and how long you let them sit full charged.
It would be helpful to do a comparison by connector type. The popular claims are that the newer designs (e.g., BT2.0, GNB 27, and A30) are much better than PH2.0. But, the data seems to suggest this may not always be the case.
One thing his test doesn't show is how the connector how the connector holds up over many battery connections. This is where PH2.0 really falls behind in comparison to all other connectors.
Yeah, I was expecting a bit more practicality from Chris, but I realize it’s a lot of work and grateful that we got this much I guess.
Awesome work! I always look at perf/price when it comes to lipos as I see them as very disposable 😅, especially whoop lipos. Without looking at the cost of the batteries in the test I'm pretty sure that would change the order significantly.
Great work. I'm a fan. Thanks.
Yes I too would wish to have some indication of battery longevity. But it is obvious this factor will very much depend on the use/abuse we put them through. An index to measure performance degradation over time based on charge/discharge cycles, I think even in a proper test environment, would be a daunting task.
Weird to see a comparison like this where the top batteries used by whoop racers are omitted (the bt2.0 tattus/webleed/tinywhoop at both 300mah and 270mah)
Any omissions are due to limited/no availability of the product in the UK. I bought everything I could find.
Might be interesting to try deriving a 'drone performance' score which factors in the weight and voltage differences
The nitronectergolds are great, but are held back by the PH2.0 connector. When new, the connector is fine, but it degrades quickly over time, NDB needs to sell them with one of the newer connectors to make them worth running. Switching to BT2.0 added a minute of runtime on a 65mm quad.
No way it's a minute, and the NBD are awesome with PH 2.0. You just need to make sure you have a solid pin connector.
@@KOrnhOliO1 I tried solid pin, and it helps for a short time, but still wears out. Switched to BT2.0 and haven’t had an issue since. But even so NBD sells all their 1S drones with those folded pin connectors. So if you have to switch it anyway, why waste time with PH2.0?
@@scottmilano2940I agree. I have a dozen solid pin ph2.0 pigtails that are just worn out. I switched to gnb27 on my 75mm quads and had a huge increase of run time and punch. I'd like to add the bt2.0 to my 65mm, but...I just don't want to switch all my 300mah to bt2.0. when my current stash of 1s dies, I'll make the switch
Agreed, its the lack of tapered pins on the PH2.0 and so anything will do better than PH2.0 over time
@marblekitfpv has a video with the real winner!
Nice. When will the aos 1s batteries be available? :p
I'm surprised battery life isn't more hyped. On the Mini 3 I began to lose signal at cycle 188 & it will drop out of the sky in S-mode at cycle 190, on a battery under 120 days used.
Thanks for doing performance evaluation of small batteries. For the future I would like suggest a 4S (650 to 850 mA), for performance oriented bellow 250 gram quads. For those of us that rather not deal with the BS reg's.
This video is from 2020...
Tattu BT2.0
WeBleed BT2.0
Tinywhoop BT2.0
Are 2023-2024
9:40 You need to plot multi-line graphs without the glow/halo for better contrast.
I was sure, the Tattu R-Line & Nitro Nectar Gold are the same batteries, just differently labeled. Interesting to see, that this is obviously not the case. Loved your voltage sag test, too. This was an unexpected result!
Great Project and also really well defined test scenrios. The only thing I'm missing is a peak Amp test… what would they deliver at full throttle? Your 80% to 3.1V test is heading in this directio, but I imagine the bigger boys (1300mAh/6S) will run hot or empty before reaching 3.1V in that scenario? What if you just give them 100% throttle at 80% for 3secs in a flank shape instead of ramping it up?
We'll have to see what happens when I test the larger packs. I think I can pull them down to 3.1V at 80% full without issue. My BIG rig can certainly pull enough current!
@@ChrisRosser That sounds about right. And fun >:3
heck yeah, hey btw, i broke more sandwedge plates on my aos35 v3 lol so i had to put my spare bottom plate on as a sandwedge plate, 5.8g penalty but i think it should be a lot more durable hopefully being thicker and more meat around the bolt holes
Brilliant Chris - you can’t test them all but I’d like to know how far I can consistently discharge my 1s batteries without damaging them- and to know whether a ‘bounce back’ voltage of 3.5v is a good metric for battery longevity
Thanks for all your work. More people should support your patreon. I would also like to see how the batteries recover after dropped below 3V because it seems like some A tire batteries have issues. Tatu 450 1s BT2.0 is awesome
next video: I've made the worlds best Lipo. With science!
Haha, not on the cards just yet I'm afraid.
Hopefully one day!@@ChrisRosser
I would love to see some comparisons with smaller 4s batteries like 650mah and 850mah lihv and lipo. Also if you could test RDQ brand batteries. I figure they are just rebranded GNB, but I would be curious to see if that is actually the case.
This is a great review but you really should have used the bt2.0 variant for tattu. Think the results would have been different and you should also run a test under average whoop weight load.
You watched it, right? He said we can send him any batteries he missed, just send a brand new, never flown battery and he'll test it for free!
Great analysis. Are you going to test 2s batts ?
Yes I am!
Thanks for the work! I would love to see error bars, seldomly one pack is the same despite looks, right? So variability over multiple packs might give us an idea of what to expect when we are buying one.
I tested 4-5 of a subset of the batteries and variance was within 1-2% or so.
This is very true, I use a nice esr meter and when buying 10 to 20 packs at a time, I see a 17% esr variance on the lower cost batteries. But I don't expect him to buy multiple batteries to test this.
I am always suspect testing sent in batteries/motors from manufactures as they can send in the top 5% after testing, and the end user would not be getting that motor/battery. I have 23 years racing and have experienced this.
Hello! Ive been using tattu batteries for a while(the same as in the video, but with bt2.0). I can tell that high voltage feels very much and im sure it is not a placebo. They are also pretty old now, but still flying ok.
how is it placebo when it’s been tested to death since 10 years ago that Lihv performs better
@@user-yk1cw8im4h im saying its not
really interesting video. Now I only need to enrich your scoring with the price per battery and its availability in Europe. 👍
THX we need benchmarks like this to get fair prices from the brands. I think to make it scientifically correct you would have to measure at least 20 of each type and evaluate the median and then compare them. Due to series scatter and measurement errors etc. But it i rarely to find something like that on UA-cam. But I'm sure the manufacturers do it, they usually also test the competition...
Can't wait for 6s ..
Excellent... next time I can make a better choice.
I would have liked Solid pin ph2.0 (not that rolled pin cheapo connector). And bt2.0 which is arguably the #1 connector for whoops.
But hopefully you will also get sent some tattu bt2.0 batteries too
Wich one should i get for the Mobula 7 ?
I hope you will be able to test Ovonic batteries as well, hopefully they do watch your videos 🤞
During voltage sag test do you discharge all batteries at different current (eg. follow 12C * nominal capacity)? IMHO you might come to different results when using constant current/power since (eg. 300 mAh 12 C = 3.6 A while 380 mAh 12 C = 4.56 A). The percentage difference is around 20 %
Where is tattu bt2.0 🫥
this Chris guy is out of touch some times, he’s too up his mind and missing out the big picture
@user-yk1cw8im4h calm down, dude. He's doing this for free and I'm sure he's going to get there.
It didn't quite compare to the legit nbd nitro nectar gold with the same ph2.0 so idk what difference we will find besides less sag. Also, at 5 minutes he addresses this. He simply needs more batteries, and that's something the community (and manufacturers) can potentially help him with.
My best
he probably tested what he had in hand, you can buy some and send him for test like he stated on the video@@user-yk1cw8im4h
Was the c rate calculated from the stated mah or did you align them with the mah you discovered from testing? Wondering if down rating the packs could explain the better performance of some of the top tier.
I used the manufacturer rating. I think that's correct as that's how they'll calculate their C ratings
@@ChrisRosser Seems reasonable but probably worth noting that in the instances where batteries are underrated that could skew some of the results. Ad absurdum: the same cell rated at 10mah would perform better in nearly every test than that cell rated at 1000mah
I have been wanting the nitro nectars but i wish they came in a higher mah
Consistency over time would also be super useful. PH2.0 for example theoretically should not be near the top for max power after some usage given how the connectors wear and carbonize.
Most of the time we aren't flying brand new batteries so it would likely be more representative to test after like 50 cycles each or something, and 50-100 plug+unplugs.
I'm still waiting for you to produce your Supernova motors for tiny whoops 🤭
Great video! What is the difference between GNB 350mah A30P 1S 70C LiHV and GNB 350mah A30C 1S 70C LiHV. I think the A30P version is without a cable and the A30C with a cable. It is so? Why are the results different? The cell should be the same. I can only think of the difference in weight and the losses caused by the cable. It is so? What is the weight difference? Thank you very much for your answer!
My takeaway from this is that it's going to be a lucky dip bag. How are the gnb 380mah both the best, and worst battery between a27 and A30 connector?? I think it might actually be better to take the connector out of the equation and direct solder for the purposes of the test. Then test 2-3 cells from the same brand, since the results seem to be so variable.
I love my gnb 380s but I've been running them in 3s
missed webleedfpv 1s batteries. I swear by them but I wonder how they compare to these major brands.
Can't get them in the UK but I'll reach out to WeBleed and see if I can get some for testing!
Somewhat surprised that the same connectors weren’t used across all of the samples. Also need to know what happens after 50 and 100 cycles to be of any practical use.
Oh yeah and can you please put if the batteries are folded cells. From the picture of you dumping them on the table. I’m guessing the gaoneng black and the nectar was folded. However I don’t know that for a fact.
Maybe there is way to calculate a unitless metric for each of these three measurements and somehow find a way to represent them on a ternary plot? I know they don't add up to 100% but maybe that can be incorporated somehow in the unitless metric? Then you could designate areas of the ternary plot that make those batteries better for some uses than others?
Aren't the folded cell batteries (NBD, Dogcom, Tattu) all just Tattu? Interesting that they show as much variability as they do.
Ph2.0 connector is a rolled pin should be using the sild pin at least.
For the 5inch class definetly get some sls noc from germany
Thank you Mr Rosser. Are there any plans to test the claimed C-Ratings of any batteries?
I don't put much stock in C ratings. It doesn't really matter what the manufacturers rating is, what matters is how much current you can get at what voltage.
@@ChrisRosser I don't either, however, I would like to know how close, or how completely rubbish they might be.
If there was some spec for calculating C rating, then yeah sure he could compare them, but even Chris had to devise his own test procedures as there really isn't any standard for our industry. I like the way Chris tried to develop testing methods in an attempt to highlight the different use cases for batteries in our hobby. It would be great if he could calculate some sort of unitless number for each of these three categories that might be independent of size, cell count, etc? Then we could have a "Rosser Triple Stat" number for each battery.
@@cagmuer Essentially the C rating thing would just have to be a "how many amps can we get this sucker to push out" and see if the batteries hit anywhere near their 'rated' C mark. It would likely destroy the batteries in the process. I know that a fixed wing guy who's done a bunch of battery work in the past said he's tried some batteries that were rated to a supposed 100C, only to have them burn some internal management circuitry at around 20-something C. I don't even look at C ratings when purchasing batteries (within reason) - but it would just be fun to see if the batteries could, in fact, deliver anywhere near the amperage they are supposedly rated for.
@@clifffield1Sorry, this is a long response. Testing the C would be great, but the problem is that no battery manufacturer says how much battery sag and other cofactors are acceptable when they spec the C value for a battery. For example, any battery can provide 500C but it will sag and catch on fire. But technically, it provided 500C for 5 seconds (before the flames). I know this is an extreme example, but it illustrates the meaningless of the C value spec. Lets say a 1500mah 100C battery can supply 100C but the battery only lasts half as long before it hits 3.1V and had nothing left to give at 100C. Technically it provided 100C, but its sag was super unacceptable. However, after the test it bounces back up to 3.8V and still has 1500mah total. So technically it isn't lying. But is that the definition of C value? No one has defined what sag is acceptable when determining C value. That's why C is "meaningless" because sag and other co-dependent factors are not specified. So Chris could define his own C specification, maybe call it a "CRosser" Factor and that would be cool. But Chris would have to define all of those co-factors and it still couldn't be used to compared to the manufacturers spec as the manufacturer might be telling the truth but they just have a different spec for C. Hope this makes sense. Its a rating that isn't a rating. But its still helpful in absence of anything else. That's why we need battery testing.
Someone please send Chris the weBLEEDfpv 300MAH BT2.0 Batteries, the TinyWhoop 300MAH BT2.0 Batteries and the Tattu R-Line 300MAH Batteries! These are what we race whoops with! Thanks
Does this mean we should expect AOS batteries soon?
No nothing in the works at this end.
I ordered the 1st place GND 350mah a30p 70c and flown them on the race track today... was kinda dissapointed i didnt get any more flight time with those than the default 350mah betafpv sticks.
Someone borrowed me the 380mah 90c, and holy shit from close around 2min flight time up to 3 min flight time.
Didnt think that this "small" of a difference in power density makes such a big difference in flight time
edit: quad: analog betafpv meteor65 pro
I am sorry what is A30P vs A30C?
We also need to think about price, if not a racer of whoops. If I can get 2 batteries for 3min flights at less than 50% the cost, of a 4 minute flight that is where my choice would be
Really wish he would have identified which ones were folded cell or have a test parameter based on that
Test Betafpv 1S Lava Z folding 300mah and 550mah.
No tinywhoop or webleedfpv bt20 batteries? And why not 450mah 1s? Considering tons of tiny whoop pilots who dont really fly 65mm batteries.
send him some and he will test it
Thanks...very interesting!!!!!
You really need to take 5 identical batteries from one of the top performers and see how much variability there is. I suspect some of them have large variability due to quality control, as I've experienced that myself already. Two supposedly identical batteries can be vastly different performers.
Why do all tiny whoop batteries have such a high internal resistance? All of my batteries have a resistance of like 60-70 and they are brand new.
The smaller the battery the higher the resistance. You can think of big batteries as just small batteries in parallel and is why they have much much lower resistance the bigger they are. You should see how low the resistance is for giant 16000mah batteries.
1600mah is usually 5-7 brand new if they were taken care of. Still thats a big jump they say if it gets over 20 u should throw it out.@@cagmuer
Betafpv and flywoo 1s batteries please
I'm sorry to say this but they are crap
Didn't 1S 450 mhp? New to the hobbie
Hey Chris love your videos, widh you had tested some higher capacity but i know it would get expensive really fast.
PS i would just disable comments on your videos, to many idiots who cannot listen to what is said or even read a graph, specially Americans(no offense to the normal ones :x
)
would be really helpful if the data would be accessible somewhere. Lookint at the graphs in the video its hard to compare them
I'll add them to aos-rc.com under aos labs
@@ChrisRosser thank you♥️
Tattu 300mah BT 2.0 best you can buy.
Bummer that there are no Tinywhoop or webleedfpv folded cell packs in this test. Probably would blow most of these out of the water.
Hey Chris ditch those sermo conectors they are absolutely garbage after 50 or so plug ins
Where was the Rant about C Ratings ? 😬😬
i have bad luck with 1s batteries
Finally not a clickbait video, it looks a lot more professional!
Ph2.0 is obsolete, and GNB27 is no longer being manufactured... This video is already obsolete
Many of these batteries are OEM. Where is the actual top batteries like dogcom? boslipo? These are real manufacturers who do oem for others
Dogcom was tested and performed well.
@@ChrisRosser this is super old dogcom battery, they have 150c 1s battery now, and even the recently old battereis are 95c
@@33rdframe Those are 6S batteries and this is Tinywhoop battery test
bro 1s 560mah 150c@@kuzyatron
you need the tattu r line in bt2.0, weebleed bt 2.0, and tiny whoop bt 2.0. those are the best batteries by a mile, without them saddly this video is meaningless. great video but next time do your research on what people actually fly. also ph sux only test bt 2.0 next time.
Looks to me like it doesn't matter what battery lead you have ph20 looks pretty dam good.
We are very welcome you would love test Auline A45 21700 Li-ion for LR using, that will be impressive you we believe🎉
The C rating is complete BS. the best performing battery GNB 380 is advertised at 90C and can do just shy of .... 43C. Hey manufacturers, STOP THIS, this is ridiculous, no one can trust you. ANd fun fact, does anyone realise what is really 90C ? it means a battery dead in 1/90 of an hour = 40 sec !! At this point this is a short circuit. 40C is already 1'30", this is seriously short even for racing. And we are not even talking of battery life expectancy at this rate. Please marketing, find another number to fight on. Or do like Elon, fire Sales and Marketing altogether ! Let engineers like Chris do the job, you will have great products.
Why would you even try to compare ph vs bt...
This test is a joke.
Did you look at the data? It was confidently simple to compare ph vs bt as they can be quite comparable in many cases.
Go watch the video, pause at the graphs and forget everything you think, or you read on the internet, unless you have tested your self the diferent connectors, you are the joke, no one cares about you feelling when flying x or y connector, placebo is real and you are proof of it.