It's funny how despite Kotone being cheery, (according to Akihiko) she would give Junpei a scary look when at one time he stole her food. Meaning, she has her own boiling point, because to her eating is what makes her happy, and a moment for her to relax. So for him doing that to her, feels like she can't catch break.
Which you could interpret as she’s a dopamine addict. Let me explain, (minor science ahead) most likely due to her being depressed and her apathy towards life she most likely often seeks out dopamine highs (basically the happy chemical in your brain) to feel something. Which if you believe is the case that might be why she was more willing to use an evoker, being in life or death scenarios often tiggers dopamine and adrenaline production. Which is why you have adrenaline junkies. She probably doesn’t value her life because to feel alive, she has to be doing something that is actively putting it in danger or be thrilling enough to trigger dopamine. Tldr: Kotone is most likely a drug addict without BEING a drug addict. If it’s the case I unfortunately can relate, not in the trying to constantly off myself to feel something part! But in feeling so apathetic you look to dopamine highs to make you happy, it’s a sad cycle. But that’s just a theory, A BRAIN THEORY!
@@blaquerose121can confirm. someone i know who is depressed "hungers" a lot for serotonin-inducing activities to the point of desperation. hope they can truly find their light someday
If I am not mistaken, during several events and social links characters will also note that despite eating so much Kotone stays in really good shape and doesn't gain much weight. Makes sense too why she wants to encourage Shinjiro to cook for the entire group.
Kotone has a lot of anger inside her that doesn't get brought up nearly enough. She threatens to punch people for Saori, glares at Junpei for taking her food, in the drama CD she wants to go after Kenji and (presumably) beat him up for saying something rude to Rio. She even has the option to try an kill Takaya after defeating him, which doesn't even come UP for Makoto but only stops because Aigis asks her to wait. Music was brought up in the video about how it's a glimpse into the character we play as but a line that was overlooked was "I'm not a princess. [A lot of anger in it.] Not a cutie girlfriend, don't you know?" Kotone is tempermental and violent and tries to bury those impulses underneath a bright and cheery smile.
People often forget that having a loved one in a coma can be just as-if not more painful than simply having someone gone. It’s a physical anchor to the trauma and ruminating ‘what if’ scenarios. What if the person will eventually wake up and recover but I gave up too early?
Something I actually don't hear people talk about is how in ryoji's social link, you'll notice that there are plenty of dialogue options where she probes or challenges his happiness. As if she can't believe that his happiness is genuine and not a mask like hers. It makes ryoji a different kind of foil to the femc than he was to the mc because his existence literally puts a spotlight on her masking, forcing her to acknowledge it.
@@DamienStarry0w0 You're right. You can choose whatever name you want, I just don't feel comfortable with Makoto being called Minato and Kotone not being called Minako at the same time.
Alternate theory: What if Kotone isn’t depressed, but actually nihilistic? Basically, this would make Kotone a heroic counterpart to Takaya, because if they’re both nihilists, then Takaya is a nihilist who uses the meaninglessness of life as an excuse to destroy the world, while Kotone is a nihilist who uses the meaninglessness of life as an excuse to heal the world. Maybe deep down, she agrees with Takaya that life is meaningless, sad, cruel, and inherently insignificant, but unlike Takaya, she still thinks it’s beautiful and worth saving anyway. They’re both abnormal and insane, but they went crazy in completely opposite directions. Maybe she also believes that life is still worth something to us, and that we’re the ones who should give our own lives their meaning if life doesn’t have any purpose. Maybe she loves the world not because she ignores its flaws, but rather in spite of its flaws? Kotone knows that the universe doesn’t care about her, but she still loves it anyway. Maybe the reason why her songs are so upbeat despite having somber lyrics is because the lyrics represents what she knows, while the beat and instruments represent what she feels? She knows the world is doomed, but she doesn’t care, because she’s still going to enjoy the time she has left with her friends. Even if both Kotone and Takaya see the world as empty, the word "empty" can have different meanings for different people. For Takaya, "empty" means something that is worthless and can’t be salvaged, but for Kotone, "empty" means so much more, because if something is empty, then it can be filled with anything you want. In other words, the emptiness is something that has unlimited potential and can potentially become anything, just like the Fool arcana that she represents. Basically, Takaya’s outlook is: "The world is empty and devoid of substance, thus it has no value and should be destroyed", while Kotone’s outlook is: "The world is empty and devoid of substance, but I will fill it with something to give it value and purpose for myself and the people around me". Kotone is someone who embraces the emptiness of the universe and sees herself in it, while Takaya fears it and has been driven mad by his own existential dread. They both stared into the abyss, but when it stared back, Takaya flinched at it, while Kotone smiled at it. Perhaps Kotone doesn’t believe in things like justice, good, evil, order or morality, but she still wants to see everyone around her smiling and happy, because that’s what makes her feel fullfilled and happy. After all, if life is one big cosmic joke, why not just be a good sport and laugh along with it in good fun? And even if Kotone knows that there’s no answer to the meaning of life, it won’t matter to her, because when all is said and done, she’ll be glad that she was a part of it anyway. And that’s why unlike STREGA, she’ll face death with no regrets.
Nihilism means life is empty, and that's it. Any negative and positive connotations come from how we view that inherent meaninglessness.@@Hilversumborn
@@giahuynguyenkim6389 Yeah, exactly. But even if we see the world as empty, the word "empty" can have different meanings for different people. For Takaya, "empty" means something that is worthless and can’t be salvaged, but for Kotone, "empty" means so much more, because if something is empty, then it can be filled with anything you want. In other words, the emptiness is something that has unlimited potential and can potentially become anything, just like the Fool arcana that she represents.
@@eon1014 It’s like a blank canvas, when Takaya sees it he does nothing, meanwhile Kotone and Makoto grab pencils, markers or paintbrushes and fill it in.
something about Makoto I don't agree with is that he acts the way he does because of the environment he was in being a man, I see it much more as none of that matters to him, he does not care about how a man is meant to act he does not have the will to act a certain way, I believe he has been completely consumed by his depression to the point of apathy, the environment he was in didn't change him instead he stagnated at a very young age and and kept on becoming more and more disconnected, basically what I'm saying is that he is too apathetic to care or even comprehend how he is meant to act to the point of not even understanding how people can feel things such as fearing death pre game, also I don't fully know if I would even call it a coping mechanism it more just seems like something that's happened to him over year's of not having the will to care. I have a lot of thoughts in my head about this blue haired depressed guy
Not having parents at a young age can easily cripple a person for life mentally too, so i think that’s a big part of it; he doesn’t know how to act, so he doesn’t do anything
@@dailynonsense9360 yea 100% moving from family member to family member also probably made it really rough to even understand how to attach to people again
Nice to see a follow up on this. Whatever you wanna call her, the FeMC is a great character and analyzing her is such a fun thing to witness people do. One thing I sort of lament is that we're probably never going to get a version of The Answer based on her scenario. It's always been a ponder in my mind about what would be different about it.
My view on her “Answer” route will be very biased but, I think it heavily relies on whether Shinjiro would live past the original P3 events. My theory would be that he would most likely take Aigis' spot or share combined protag role in a way. Either that or he essentially takes the role of Yukari wanting to go back to sacrifice himself once again so that she could live, but in the end realizing that she managed to save is his life, intentionally or not, and it would be selfish of him to let it go to waste after everything she has been through. Like I said my view of the Answer is very biased seeing as Shinji is my favourite character and I would love to see what they would do with his character if he managed to survive.
Norwich City FC made this video on Mental Health: Two friends sit beside each other during several games, one of them is so happy to be there and the other is not. Over a montage of clips, its clear that the happy friend is excited to be a part of everything that's going on during the matches; While the sad friend barely moves around in his seat, hardly notices how the matches are going, is fidgeting with his hands and doesn't look like he wanted to be there. But the happy friend asks him how he's doing, and even gives him his team scarf. After a caption about how *Sometimes it is easy to tell if someone is struggling to cope,* the sad friend comes back to his seat. The happy friend never returns. The sad friend places the team scarf on the happy friend's seat, and tips his hat for his missing friend. The last caption says *Sometimes, the signs are harder to spot. Check in on those around you.*
I wanted to say thank you to covering the truths of smiling depression while using a good character as the base for it. Holding on to a persona of happiness is something that no one should have to use and I feel like as a society we don’t recognize it when we should.
As a female that enjoys the persona series i honestly really enjoy the different view. I myself as a yong girl handled my depression way different then how i deal with it as a adult. As a kid i handle my sadness much like Kototone but now as a adult i'm very much am like the male mc i can understand both pain. As for the bigest issues in peoples eyes about Senjis not dying "ruining" the games meaning feels like a spit in the face to the fact they still lost a very important friend aka Kototone and that it didn't have a impact feels wrong it left a impact. Would i have loved to see them handle Senji survived differently? Hell yes.
In all honesty it doesn't take TOO much effort to see that FEMC isn't the complete opposite of the male mc, some of her inner dialog mirror the male mc. An example of this being how FEMC is just as irritated by the energetic and catchy song of that one marketing show where you can buy items. It may be a small thing but despite how cheerful FEMC is outwardly, when she's alone she can show similar traits to the male mc which implies that both of them think similarly, even if both of them outwardly express themselves differently.
Glad to see a part 2! Kotone has a lot more depth than most people realise in all sorts of different perspectives, so I’m glad you came back for further discussion. Oh and thank you for reading my thread the other day after I saw your video lol, wasn’t expecting that! Keep up the good work!
Love the vid, just wanted to put some input on femc that I noticed. While how someone acts can definitely be a thing because of environment, i would also look at it for how society wants X person to act as well. I think Femc also struggled with having to come off as happy because of the toxic femininity of back then too(speaking from personal experience) as while you’re expected to be expressive, it’s to a degree. If you express negative emotion, it usually leads to some people saying you had failed as X gender. So I guess it’s moreso about how both male and female have toxic expectations. On the female end, you’re expected to be passive, say yes, and accommodate. Usually we would have to ignore our own needs for other people, which I feel reflects a bit in femc, like how she just straight up accepted being apart of S.E.E.S. And then the leader. Not saying everything she does is stemming from it being toxic femininity but could be apart of it. But ye just wanted to put my own opinion as a girl who lived in that time and what it was like for me lol. Keep up the good work.
These are some excellent observations, in fact, I’ve had similar thoughts on this topic! It would make sense for social expectations regarding gender to have influenced Kotone’s behaviour, including how she grapples with depression. Her desire to be accommodating for others strongly supports this, as it aligns with traditional expectations of femininity (especially the expectation to possess maternalistic qualities). This may be one of the reasons she consistently prioritizes the comfort and wellbeing of others above her own. It’s possible she believes that if she doesn’t hide her negative thoughts and emotions behind a mask of positivity, it would only burden those around her and undermine her care for them. As a side note, it’s also worth mentioning that the lyrics of Wiping All Out suggest Kotone has a deep frustration about traditional gender roles and how others perceive her as a result: “I'm not a princess / (A lot of anger in it) / Not a cutie girlfriend, oh no / Don't you know?”
Kotone I can relate to greatly. To the point it consumes my mental well-being. I constantly fear consequences and being a burden to others. And am depressed by my past. So, like she does, I mask my emotions. Under the appearance of being okay. And, like Kotone in the manga, and also implied ingame with dialog choices, there comes to points where the pain is too much I cannot maintain that "mask" of being alright. Thankfully, my value of life, care for others, and mental fortitude, prevents me from having su1cidal thoughts. But that doesn't change the fact I hate my life, I hate myself. I see myself as a burden whenever I'm not what I see as a "tool" to solve problems for those around me. If hiding my suffering to those precious to me, ensures their happiness, it's a price I'm willing to pay. I don't want to get others wrapped in my problems and suffer as well, so, I shoulder this pain of emotional suffering of my past mistakes, regrets, and grief, alone. So nobody has to suffer because of me. Not a happy way to live, nor a healthy way to do so, but it's how my life is.
As someone who feels and understand this all too well, this too is a type of selfishness, as if you are as close to your friends as you are, they will notice your hiding and signs of it, maybe just waiting to see if you ever trust them enough to bring it up And in that case, what we perceive as selfless just to feel useful and serving a purpose, could just be hurting them even more, I know I certainly would not feel good if my friend I can notice is not okay, never once confides in me or seems to ever trust me enough to be vulnerable to me Friendship, true friendship, is a two way street, you can not only take or only give, it will never end well, I know now that the friends I have want to help me as much if not more than me wanting to bottle it all up and suffer quietly Have some more trust and faith in them, it could only provide them joy to them if they see you are trusting them enough to be vulnerable with them, I learned this the hard way by bottling all my own pain and grievings until I literally could not breathe or physically do so anymore And what do I find? Every single close friend I have, coming in strides to help, when I finally broke Even the most altruist and selfless people, and/or maybe just people devoid of self worth, deserve to feel safe in front of others too, matter of fact they find it in greater amounts if anything, due to how much they ignored themselves in favor for those people Really long winded and kinda personal story to say, you are not wrong to feel this way, it is admirable in theory even, but it is not perfect or able to be maintained indefinitely, take that step and trust your friends to show you that same warmth you always try to show them
I made a draft for a fanfic before where Kotone basically ends up in an alternate future, like 10 years later... and there, Shinjiro is still in a coma and Akihiko is still clutching for hope and... yeah.
Minako: " Get this clear. I hate being the same as everyone else, everyone else not cheerful, not smiling, not want to stay at home, other, etc. Which means I'm the reverse of that a paradigm shift." Giggles
Also fuck it. Im glad you can choose to save shinji. Im glad you can give him the second chance he deserves..hashino be damned, that entire thing was a tragedy.
Is it though? He says he's going to die soon from his meds anyway and you kinda deprive him of his moment lol Not saying I'm bothered by it,I just don't really see how its any better than him dying a few months earlier
Theres no confirmation that he dies from the pills. The only form of closure you get is if you do the ng+ on the rooftop. Otherwise you hear a random girl talk about how he woke up on 3/4. Therefore it's really left up to the players interpretation, and while I wish that they did more with the concept on the femc route (another reason he'd be great for kotones version of the answer), I like to think they found a way to treat him be it with kirijo group drugs or something else. A lot of fanfictions do it, there's nothing else that says otherwise.
Another excellent analysis! I'm so glad you made a part 2! Have you ever thought how the difference in their character designs shaped how the player sees me and femc?
Happy to see a part 2 and also dreading the copium in these comments keep up the great work also lowkey i play kotones route bc u can save shinji lmaoooo
I feel like Danger Zone could have been used as well. Especially the name itself, even tho it's instrumental, it's those feelings you feel in the song, at most, even for me, like when the music fades I feel there is a deeper meaning and underling tone in it, and it starts playing a few notes of Soul Phrase and it later restarts the song.
I'm honestly so sick of Persona fans who hate Kotone (mostly men because duh, how dare you expect a man to be fine with romancing men or something along those lines and how dare you make the hero female that is so woke). I understand if someone isn't a fan of her personality or social links. Everyone has their own preferences they are entitled to. However, claiming it's better she isn't in Reload or that she doesn't belong there because it's supposed to be a nostalgic experience is just ridiculous. Just because you don't want to play her route or her route isn't nostalgic to you, doesn't mean no one else should be able to play her route in Reload. It's true Makoto's route is the original, so it's the most likely to be nostalgic for people, but not everyone is rich, so many people would have only had a PSP as their sole gaming console. Especially girls/women would have likely chosen to play as Kotone instead of Makoto. Kotone was my first experience with P3 too. Hence not adding her to the game means removing the nostalgia factor for some fans. Having a female protagonist also just helps a good chunk of the fandom feel seen. Many Persona fans are female. (The argument this is just about "waifus" is also stupid, at least if you think Kotone is the "waifu". Most Kotone fans are female. On the other hand, for many male fans this is about "waifus", because Kotone "forces" them to romance men. (They aren't forced to romance anyone at all and Aigis's social link is still romantic.))
I love Kotone, she's so awesome. One of the few (It's hopefully not a few) male fans of Kotone and she's my favorite protagonist next to Tatsuya. She's just like me fr... Wish she was in Reload but the modding community is pulling massive weight!
I'm a man, and I'm definitely a fan of Kotone as well. But since Persona to me is so much more than just some meaningless dating simulator, her male romance options don't bother me one bit. Plus, it just makes sense; of course a girl character is going to have male romance options! But I'm glad that her route in p3p made them optional like you said, whereas Makoto's route for nearly 20 years across three games (p3, p3fes, and p3p) basically forced you to romance all female social links in order to max them out. Like, I personally don't want to romance Yuko but I have to in order to reach Strength 10. I like her fine; no hate for her. She's just not the type of character I'd be romantically interested in. That was easily yet another amazing improvement in Reload when they made Makoto's romance options optional, thus including more dialogue for the new platonic routes, and even giving certain characters a better chance to shine on their own (a great example being Mitsuru, who during Makoto's romance route would essentially hide behind him and use her love for him against her arranged fiancé in order to cut ties, while in the new platonic route and in Kotone's link with her in p3p, she rejects him purely on the basis of him being a huge d-bag and her respect for both herself and her friends). Anyways, back to Kotone herself, I will admit that I am annoyed when representation in media occurs for the sake of representation alone and thus constructs poorly written characters whom the franchise forces to be likeable without real merit. I think most people can agree with that when talking about characters like Rey in the Star Wars sequels, or the live-action Mulan. All the more reason why I love Kotone. As said in the video, she isn't "Makoto, but a girl". She's her own character with her own values to add to this game that can't be found with Makoto. So she clearly wasn't meant to fulfill some sort of political agenda, or appease a certain crowd. But instead give a new, and insightful perspective on a story that Persona fans were already familiar with. Plus, also like was said in the video, she comes with brand new social link characters like Sayori and Rio (shoutout to the brief background cameos they made in Persona 3 The Movie #3: Falling Down, just like all the other social link characters throughout that film series), and through Kotone, we could get social links with the male SEES teammates for the first time, meaning that we got to see more of Junpei, Akihiko, Ken, Shinjiro, and even Koromaru than was already showcased in the main story for both Makoto and Kotone. Alot to say that I fully support her inclusion in p3p, and she's one of the best parts of Persona Q2. I am personally rather sad that Atlus will likely not be adding her into Reload. While the fan made mods for her are interesting, I doubt they'll be able to fully replicate and reimagine the experience of her route in p3p, since she still wields her naginata just like Makoto does his shortsword, and as far as I can tell, no efforts have been made to reimagine her exclusive social links in Reload. Literally, I spent the $100 to preorder the super special edition or whatever its called of p3r, and then spent more once Episode Aigis released so I could get that too. So I'll gladly spend however much more I need to on an official DLC from Atlus that truly remakes Kotone and her route. If that happens, I'll immediately tell Atlus "shut up and take my money!!"
I try to understand what people insinuate with the canon argument, but I just don't get it. Like, they can just say they aren't interested in Kotone, that's fine, but trying to argue it from a point of canonicity just feels weird. Are they saying because she isn't canon any future releases won't focus on her so why care, but the story of Persona 3 is over! Do they genuinely believe Atlus will actually in a substantial way continue the story, and I mean like beyond just cameos in spin-offs? And honestly, if Atlus did try to continue the story, you'd know that'd just lead to a whole new discourse, and I, for one, would be glad if Kotone wasn't involved in that.
The issue with all this is that FeMC was added to portable as the extension of the new theme Hashino implemented called the "butterfly effect". Essentially, something that allows you to change fates of Chidori and Shinjiro, and.... directly contradicts the previous sentiments of Hashino himself of how their deaths are not meant to be these huge tragedies, because they've accepted the fact that they will die and passed away satisfied. (Read the interview if you want context) I already mentioned how the pink color addition only works as the extension of Kotone's personality and doesn't display the game's themes in the same way blue does, as well as how the FACT that she has more personality/dialogue choices that veer into a less vague direction than Makoto's turns a potentially universal experience into something lesser. Makoto can act cheery, she CANNOT act apathetically. The Protagonist (if we believe the writers) is supposed to be this empty shell that represents the lack of ambition, drive and direction in life. Also, it doesn't matter HOW they connect with others, but the fact that they do. How Kotone behaves can only be attributed t9 a limited amount of individuals, while you can make Makoto say whatever you want. How can you guys not understand how important this is? Her having "more personality" is exactly the issue. As for the DSM-5... (and ICD for that matter) here's the thing: "According to DSM-5, at least one of the symptoms is either depressed mood or loss of interest or pleasure. Depressed mood occurs nearly every day as subjective feelings like sadness, emptiness, and hopelessness or observations made by others. Loss of interest or pleasure occurs in all, or almost all activities of the day, nearly every day. These symptoms, as well as five out of the nine more specific symptoms listed, must frequently occur for more than two weeks (to the extent in which it impairs functioning) for the diagnosis." If Makoto or Kotone TRULY had depression, they would NOT be able to go to Tartarus, where in the Dark Hour your stamina is further drained and you experience even worse fatigue. So, once again, bringing up DSM-5 as an argument didn't work. I win these.
To the first point: Woah, the dude changed his own mind on the story he wrote. It's not like every author ever does this -- this point is useless because you're just upset he didn't stick to the original intention YOU liked. The pink color scheme is not only a reflection of Kotone's personality. Pink is a counterpart to blue, not only in gender, but in mood. Pink is the childish joy and passion the S.E.E.S. members feel as they begin to live life, which is an important theme of Persona 3. All the characters are drowning in a sea, even Kotone, but they still get up and continue to keep going because there's stuff to look forward to. Kotone actually has a lot of sarcastic dialogue, and this is important because it suggests she is moodier than Makoto. Makoto's choices aren't apathetic -- him saying 'I don't care' is him not wanting to make a decision in case it's wrong, whereas Kotone will snap and tell people to leave her alone. I'm really tired of people painting Makoto as apathetic and a blank slate when that's absolutely not true. Makoto's will to live is evident even in the beginning of the game when he questions why Yukari has a gun. If you watched this video, you would understand this. "How Kotone behaves can only be attributed to a limited amount of individuals" Then why do so many people relate to her instead of Makoto? How do you assume that people cannot relate to her? Yes, relatability is important to a main character, but Persona already had protagonists with defined personalities such as Tatsuya and Maya from Persona 2, Aigis from FES, and even P5's MC was inspired a bit by Kotone in how he's given a defined personality, showcasing her influence. Your assessment of depression is wrong. "If they truly had depression, they would NOT be able to go to Tartarus," but chronic depression manifests for different reasons from different disorders such as PTSD. People OFTEN cope with this. I as someone with complex PTSD and Bipolar II STILL do things -- I don't feel particularly exhausted on certain days, but I still have chronic episodes that leave me unable to leave my bed or keep up a routine. The protagonist (either Makoto or Kotone) are literally knocked out for two weeks after awakening their persona, and every character is weakened if they're sick or they're in a terrible mood, causing them to get hit more frequently by status ailments, criticals, etc. You can literally just never go to Tartarus and hang out with everyone. You don't really 'win' anything. Everything you've said is easy to disprove. You're not wrong for having an opinion on the video's points, but you're wrong in bragging as if you're excessively intelligent and understand everything about Persona 3 when it's very easy to prove you wrong.
@@nymphia You know what? Screw it. I feel like proving wrong people like you. So, let it commence. To your first point. If Kotone fit the original intent, why would he deem her inclusion "not worth it" in the remake? If she "fit all the themes" as you say? Huh? Huuuh? If she truly was as valuable to the story and as important he'd make sure she would be in it, and yet she isn't. Next. Color scheme. "Pink is a counterpart to blue, not only in gender, but in mood." Not in Japan. The counterpart to blue is red, bc both are part of 4 primary colors in Japanese culture. Not to mention the importance of meanings of those 4 colors vs "pink". It's such an insane downgrade in this sense, it's not even funny. "All the characters are drowning in a sea." The sea is fucking blue. "Makoto's choices aren't apathetic -- him saying 'I don't care' is him not wanting to make a decision in case it's wrong." Where did I say he WAS apathetic, huh? (Act apathetically /= is apathetic) Please, learn to read first before arguing with me. "I'm really tired of people painting Makoto as apathetic and a blank slate." Exerpt of the interview: "HASHINO: Lots of young people today feel no pressing urge to accomplish anything. They're bored, lack interests." Makoto's experience is supposed to represent this "universality", where his "vagueness" as a character is supposed to immerse the player in the same way as if we themselves would experience death. And, since we acted as we potentially would and inserted our own personality into Makoto, it hits way harder. And is the author's intent. "Then why do so many people relate to her instead of Makoto?" Because Kotone fans are vocal. In Japanese popularity polls she hasn't exceeded Makoto's popularity even before the release of reload. "Yes, relatability is important to a main character, but Persona already had protagonists with defined personalities." Because, the intention of making the P3 mc a self-insert is important to the game's themes. It's ALL in that interview, m'dude. Just read it. It's not that hard. "Your assessment of depression is wrong." Your courage stat must truly be maxed out as you're talking to someone who STUDIES psychiatry in uni. "but chronic depression manifests for different reasons from different disorders such as PTSD." Sure, but that's not the rule. And so what? Makoto (not in the movies) or Kotone don't have PTSD. "People OFTEN cope with this." Funnily enough, the diagnostic criteria is that you CANNOT cope with it, and that's why it's a disorder. "I as someone with complex PTSD and Bipolar II STILL do things." Because. Bipolar and MDD are COMPLETELY different disorders. You have episodes of depression, chronic depression as part of the MDD is something that doesn't have "days off" or intermissions. "I still have chronic episodes that leave me unable to leave my bed or keep up a routine." Your disorder is what's chronic, not the episodes themselves, they're called "acute". And you are essentially completely "healthy" when you aren't in a depressive phase. That's what's so debilitating to patients with bipolar, actually. I'm sorry you have to go through that. I hope the pills tone it down at least a little. "The protagonist (either Makoto or Kotone) are literally knocked out for two weeks after awakening their persona, and every character is weakened if they're sick or they're in a terrible mood, causing them to get hit more frequently by status ailments, criticals, etc." This is literally normal reactive behavior to stress. They're essentially child soldiers, remember? But everyone with no diagnoses in their position would feel the same way. "Everything you've said is easy to disprove." Nuh-uh. Continue seething. "you're wrong if you're excessively intelligent and understand everything about Persona 3 when it's very easy to prove you wrong." Really? Did you end up proving me wrong? No. So, I am "excessively intelligent". Toodles.
@@phrinus once again, if that seriously how you look at people with depression and you claim to actually be studying psychology. Stay the fuck out of it. I seriously fear for your potential patients.
Even if everything you said is true, none of it matters. Other peoples' experience and resonance with Minako has had meaning. You can see that in this video, and in the comments on it. There's no point in trying to "disprove" anything, or be "correct" in interpreting her character, just because you came away from the experience with a different understanding than others. You can not take away what Minako means to people, especially to those struggling with mental illness that found solace in her character.
![[ElevenLabs] The Persona protagonists discuss about Pokémon (Persona AI Parody)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6gWsCKCDUVE/mqdefault.jpg)
It's funny how despite Kotone being cheery, (according to Akihiko) she would give Junpei a scary look when at one time he stole her food.
Meaning, she has her own boiling point, because to her eating is what makes her happy, and a moment for her to relax.
So for him doing that to her, feels like she can't catch break.
Which you could interpret as she’s a dopamine addict.
Let me explain, (minor science ahead) most likely due to her being depressed and her apathy towards life she most likely often seeks out dopamine highs (basically the happy chemical in your brain) to feel something.
Which if you believe is the case that might be why she was more willing to use an evoker, being in life or death scenarios often tiggers dopamine and adrenaline production. Which is why you have adrenaline junkies. She probably doesn’t value her life because to feel alive, she has to be doing something that is actively putting it in danger or be thrilling enough to trigger dopamine.
Tldr: Kotone is most likely a drug addict without BEING a drug addict.
If it’s the case I unfortunately can relate, not in the trying to constantly off myself to feel something part! But in feeling so apathetic you look to dopamine highs to make you happy, it’s a sad cycle.
But that’s just a theory, A BRAIN THEORY!
@@blaquerose121can confirm. someone i know who is depressed "hungers" a lot for serotonin-inducing activities to the point of desperation. hope they can truly find their light someday
If I am not mistaken, during several events and social links characters will also note that despite eating so much Kotone stays in really good shape and doesn't gain much weight.
Makes sense too why she wants to encourage Shinjiro to cook for the entire group.
Kotone has a lot of anger inside her that doesn't get brought up nearly enough. She threatens to punch people for Saori, glares at Junpei for taking her food, in the drama CD she wants to go after Kenji and (presumably) beat him up for saying something rude to Rio. She even has the option to try an kill Takaya after defeating him, which doesn't even come UP for Makoto but only stops because Aigis asks her to wait.
Music was brought up in the video about how it's a glimpse into the character we play as but a line that was overlooked was "I'm not a princess. [A lot of anger in it.] Not a cutie girlfriend, don't you know?" Kotone is tempermental and violent and tries to bury those impulses underneath a bright and cheery smile.
Well. She isn't a princess(alot of anger in it)
People often forget that having a loved one in a coma can be just as-if not more painful than simply having someone gone. It’s a physical anchor to the trauma and ruminating ‘what if’ scenarios. What if the person will eventually wake up and recover but I gave up too early?
Something I actually don't hear people talk about is how in ryoji's social link, you'll notice that there are plenty of dialogue options where she probes or challenges his happiness. As if she can't believe that his happiness is genuine and not a mask like hers. It makes ryoji a different kind of foil to the femc than he was to the mc because his existence literally puts a spotlight on her masking, forcing her to acknowledge it.
Protags at the start of the story
Minato: "Nothing in life matters... 😮💨🔫"
Kotone: "Nothing in life matters!😎🔫"
Makoto*
@FelixTheAnimator it's my protag and I'll name him how I want lol atlus can kick rocks lmao
In all seriousness I'm ok with either name it's just a matter of sentimentality for the manga I guess
@@DamienStarry0w0 You're right. You can choose whatever name you want, I just don't feel comfortable with Makoto being called Minato and Kotone not being called Minako at the same time.
@@DamienStarry0w0 Don't care + didn't ask + Luigi Lasagna is canon
Alternate theory: What if Kotone isn’t depressed, but actually nihilistic? Basically, this would make Kotone a heroic counterpart to Takaya, because if they’re both nihilists, then Takaya is a nihilist who uses the meaninglessness of life as an excuse to destroy the world, while Kotone is a nihilist who uses the meaninglessness of life as an excuse to heal the world. Maybe deep down, she agrees with Takaya that life is meaningless, sad, cruel, and inherently insignificant, but unlike Takaya, she still thinks it’s beautiful and worth saving anyway. They’re both abnormal and insane, but they went crazy in completely opposite directions.
Maybe she also believes that life is still worth something to us, and that we’re the ones who should give our own lives their meaning if life doesn’t have any purpose. Maybe she loves the world not because she ignores its flaws, but rather in spite of its flaws? Kotone knows that the universe doesn’t care about her, but she still loves it anyway. Maybe the reason why her songs are so upbeat despite having somber lyrics is because the lyrics represents what she knows, while the beat and instruments represent what she feels? She knows the world is doomed, but she doesn’t care, because she’s still going to enjoy the time she has left with her friends.
Even if both Kotone and Takaya see the world as empty, the word "empty" can have different meanings for different people. For Takaya, "empty" means something that is worthless and can’t be salvaged, but for Kotone, "empty" means so much more, because if something is empty, then it can be filled with anything you want. In other words, the emptiness is something that has unlimited potential and can potentially become anything, just like the Fool arcana that she represents. Basically, Takaya’s outlook is: "The world is empty and devoid of substance, thus it has no value and should be destroyed", while Kotone’s outlook is: "The world is empty and devoid of substance, but I will fill it with something to give it value and purpose for myself and the people around me". Kotone is someone who embraces the emptiness of the universe and sees herself in it, while Takaya fears it and has been driven mad by his own existential dread. They both stared into the abyss, but when it stared back, Takaya flinched at it, while Kotone smiled at it.
Perhaps Kotone doesn’t believe in things like justice, good, evil, order or morality, but she still wants to see everyone around her smiling and happy, because that’s what makes her feel fullfilled and happy. After all, if life is one big cosmic joke, why not just be a good sport and laugh along with it in good fun? And even if Kotone knows that there’s no answer to the meaning of life, it won’t matter to her, because when all is said and done, she’ll be glad that she was a part of it anyway. And that’s why unlike STREGA, she’ll face death with no regrets.
That makes her an Anti-Nihilist/Existentialist.
@@Hilversumborn Yup, exactly.
Nihilism means life is empty, and that's it. Any negative and positive connotations come from how we view that inherent meaninglessness.@@Hilversumborn
@@giahuynguyenkim6389 Yeah, exactly. But even if we see the world as empty, the word "empty" can have different meanings for different people. For Takaya, "empty" means something that is worthless and can’t be salvaged, but for Kotone, "empty" means so much more, because if something is empty, then it can be filled with anything you want. In other words, the emptiness is something that has unlimited potential and can potentially become anything, just like the Fool arcana that she represents.
@@eon1014 It’s like a blank canvas, when Takaya sees it he does nothing, meanwhile Kotone and Makoto grab pencils, markers or paintbrushes and fill it in.
something about Makoto I don't agree with is that he acts the way he does because of the environment he was in being a man, I see it much more as none of that matters to him, he does not care about how a man is meant to act he does not have the will to act a certain way, I believe he has been completely consumed by his depression to the point of apathy, the environment he was in didn't change him instead he stagnated at a very young age and and kept on becoming more and more disconnected, basically what I'm saying is that he is too apathetic to care or even comprehend how he is meant to act to the point of not even understanding how people can feel things such as fearing death pre game, also I don't fully know if I would even call it a coping mechanism it more just seems like something that's happened to him over year's of not having the will to care.
I have a lot of thoughts in my head about this blue haired depressed guy
You get it.
@@Door3234 In Japanese culture being stoic is considered badass and manly.
Not having parents at a young age can easily cripple a person for life mentally too, so i think that’s a big part of it; he doesn’t know how to act, so he doesn’t do anything
@@Hilversumborn yea and I'm saying I don't think that's the way he is
@@dailynonsense9360 yea 100% moving from family member to family member also probably made it really rough to even understand how to attach to people again
Nice to see a follow up on this. Whatever you wanna call her, the FeMC is a great character and analyzing her is such a fun thing to witness people do.
One thing I sort of lament is that we're probably never going to get a version of The Answer based on her scenario. It's always been a ponder in my mind about what would be different about it.
My view on her “Answer” route will be very biased but, I think it heavily relies on whether Shinjiro would live past the original P3 events.
My theory would be that he would most likely take Aigis' spot or share combined protag role in a way.
Either that or he essentially takes the role of Yukari wanting to go back to sacrifice himself once again so that she could live, but in the end realizing that she managed to save is his life, intentionally or not, and it would be selfish of him to let it go to waste after everything she has been through.
Like I said my view of the Answer is very biased seeing as Shinji is my favourite character and I would love to see what they would do with his character if he managed to survive.
Norwich City FC made this video on Mental Health:
Two friends sit beside each other during several games, one of them is so happy to be there and the other is not. Over a montage of clips, its clear that the happy friend is excited to be a part of everything that's going on during the matches; While the sad friend barely moves around in his seat, hardly notices how the matches are going, is fidgeting with his hands and doesn't look like he wanted to be there. But the happy friend asks him how he's doing, and even gives him his team scarf.
After a caption about how *Sometimes it is easy to tell if someone is struggling to cope,* the sad friend comes back to his seat. The happy friend never returns.
The sad friend places the team scarf on the happy friend's seat, and tips his hat for his missing friend. The last caption says *Sometimes, the signs are harder to spot. Check in on those around you.*
I am so back
We are so back.
So, so back
0:25 Makotosis had no right to be as funny as it was. lol
I wanted to say thank you to covering the truths of smiling depression while using a good character as the base for it. Holding on to a persona of happiness is something that no one should have to use and I feel like as a society we don’t recognize it when we should.
Kotone’s hairclips form the number 22, which is an alternate number for the Fool Arcana.
As a female that enjoys the persona series i honestly really enjoy the different view. I myself as a yong girl handled my depression way different then how i deal with it as a adult. As a kid i handle my sadness much like Kototone but now as a adult i'm very much am like the male mc i can understand both pain. As for the bigest issues in peoples eyes about Senjis not dying "ruining" the games meaning feels like a spit in the face to the fact they still lost a very important friend aka Kototone and that it didn't have a impact feels wrong it left a impact. Would i have loved to see them handle Senji survived differently? Hell yes.
OMG!? THANK YOU AGAIN! You are doing some justice! Thank you!
FEMC / Kotone deserves better!😭
It's funny how I was a hater. Then I realized she was me.
Friend, I hope you don’t hate yourself. Thoughts to you.
In all honesty it doesn't take TOO much effort to see that FEMC isn't the complete opposite of the male mc, some of her inner dialog mirror the male mc. An example of this being how FEMC is just as irritated by the energetic and catchy song of that one marketing show where you can buy items. It may be a small thing but despite how cheerful FEMC is outwardly, when she's alone she can show similar traits to the male mc which implies that both of them think similarly, even if both of them outwardly express themselves differently.
Wearing different masks if you will, but when she is alone she doesn't need to wear any.
She gave so much and Yet The World in the series and real life gave her so little.
Adachi was right about one thing.
The World is Full of Shit
I appreciate the fact we get a part 2; I've been so interested in her character since part 1 but barely anyone seems to really go in depth about her!
Glad to see a part 2! Kotone has a lot more depth than most people realise in all sorts of different perspectives, so I’m glad you came back for further discussion. Oh and thank you for reading my thread the other day after I saw your video lol, wasn’t expecting that! Keep up the good work!
Love the vid, just wanted to put some input on femc that I noticed. While how someone acts can definitely be a thing because of environment, i would also look at it for how society wants X person to act as well. I think Femc also struggled with having to come off as happy because of the toxic femininity of back then too(speaking from personal experience) as while you’re expected to be expressive, it’s to a degree. If you express negative emotion, it usually leads to some people saying you had failed as X gender. So I guess it’s moreso about how both male and female have toxic expectations. On the female end, you’re expected to be passive, say yes, and accommodate. Usually we would have to ignore our own needs for other people, which I feel reflects a bit in femc, like how she just straight up accepted being apart of S.E.E.S. And then the leader. Not saying everything she does is stemming from it being toxic femininity but could be apart of it. But ye just wanted to put my own opinion as a girl who lived in that time and what it was like for me lol. Keep up the good work.
These are some excellent observations, in fact, I’ve had similar thoughts on this topic! It would make sense for social expectations regarding gender to have influenced Kotone’s behaviour, including how she grapples with depression. Her desire to be accommodating for others strongly supports this, as it aligns with traditional expectations of femininity (especially the expectation to possess maternalistic qualities). This may be one of the reasons she consistently prioritizes the comfort and wellbeing of others above her own. It’s possible she believes that if she doesn’t hide her negative thoughts and emotions behind a mask of positivity, it would only burden those around her and undermine her care for them. As a side note, it’s also worth mentioning that the lyrics of Wiping All Out suggest Kotone has a deep frustration about traditional gender roles and how others perceive her as a result: “I'm not a princess / (A lot of anger in it) / Not a cutie girlfriend, oh no / Don't you know?”
Kotone I can relate to greatly. To the point it consumes my mental well-being. I constantly fear consequences and being a burden to others. And am depressed by my past. So, like she does, I mask my emotions. Under the appearance of being okay. And, like Kotone in the manga, and also implied ingame with dialog choices, there comes to points where the pain is too much I cannot maintain that "mask" of being alright. Thankfully, my value of life, care for others, and mental fortitude, prevents me from having su1cidal thoughts. But that doesn't change the fact I hate my life, I hate myself. I see myself as a burden whenever I'm not what I see as a "tool" to solve problems for those around me. If hiding my suffering to those precious to me, ensures their happiness, it's a price I'm willing to pay. I don't want to get others wrapped in my problems and suffer as well, so, I shoulder this pain of emotional suffering of my past mistakes, regrets, and grief, alone. So nobody has to suffer because of me. Not a happy way to live, nor a healthy way to do so, but it's how my life is.
I felt that comment
As someone who feels and understand this all too well, this too is a type of selfishness, as if you are as close to your friends as you are, they will notice your hiding and signs of it, maybe just waiting to see if you ever trust them enough to bring it up
And in that case, what we perceive as selfless just to feel useful and serving a purpose, could just be hurting them even more, I know I certainly would not feel good if my friend I can notice is not okay, never once confides in me or seems to ever trust me enough to be vulnerable to me
Friendship, true friendship, is a two way street, you can not only take or only give, it will never end well, I know now that the friends I have want to help me as much if not more than me wanting to bottle it all up and suffer quietly
Have some more trust and faith in them, it could only provide them joy to them if they see you are trusting them enough to be vulnerable with them, I learned this the hard way by bottling all my own pain and grievings until I literally could not breathe or physically do so anymore
And what do I find? Every single close friend I have, coming in strides to help, when I finally broke
Even the most altruist and selfless people, and/or maybe just people devoid of self worth, deserve to feel safe in front of others too, matter of fact they find it in greater amounts if anything, due to how much they ignored themselves in favor for those people
Really long winded and kinda personal story to say, you are not wrong to feel this way, it is admirable in theory even, but it is not perfect or able to be maintained indefinitely, take that step and trust your friends to show you that same warmth you always try to show them
People saying Shinji possibly spending the rest of his life as a vegetable doesn't fit P3 clearly haven't given it much thought
I made a draft for a fanfic before where Kotone basically ends up in an alternate future, like 10 years later... and there, Shinjiro is still in a coma and Akihiko is still clutching for hope and... yeah.
Another Kotone video? We are winning
persona's a pretty cool gal, she feels tired on an early march day and SMILES all over the place
Minako: " Get this clear. I hate being the same as everyone else, everyone else not cheerful, not smiling, not want to stay at home, other, etc. Which means I'm the reverse of that a paradigm shift." Giggles
Also fuck it. Im glad you can choose to save shinji. Im glad you can give him the second chance he deserves..hashino be damned, that entire thing was a tragedy.
Is it though? He says he's going to die soon from his meds anyway and you kinda deprive him of his moment lol
Not saying I'm bothered by it,I just don't really see how its any better than him dying a few months earlier
Theres no confirmation that he dies from the pills. The only form of closure you get is if you do the ng+ on the rooftop. Otherwise you hear a random girl talk about how he woke up on 3/4. Therefore it's really left up to the players interpretation, and while I wish that they did more with the concept on the femc route (another reason he'd be great for kotones version of the answer), I like to think they found a way to treat him be it with kirijo group drugs or something else. A lot of fanfictions do it, there's nothing else that says otherwise.
@@stormfallvalkyri8389 well, fine by me
@@stormfallvalkyri8389Im just saying play their cards right and we would have had Episode Shinjiro
TRUE!!!!!
You missed the chance to end the video with a "It's on you to find The Answer".
Wow! The first video was so good I wasn't expecting a part 2! Love the femc talk, especially positive kinds!
omg I wasn't expectating another Kotone video. If this going to continue, I'm in!! No doubt!! :D
Wish you added a little bit more on the audio drama. Having her in a speaking role just made her 1000% more likeable and relatable
Beautiful work, after your videos, I'm even more of a Kotone fan.
WE ARE BACK KOTONE STANS!!💅💅
Another excellent analysis! I'm so glad you made a part 2! Have you ever thought how the difference in their character designs shaped how the player sees me and femc?
PART 2 HELL YEAH🔥🔥
Happy to see a part 2 and also dreading the copium in these comments keep up the great work also lowkey i play kotones route bc u can save shinji lmaoooo
I feel like Danger Zone could have been used as well. Especially the name itself, even tho it's instrumental, it's those feelings you feel in the song, at most, even for me, like when the music fades I feel there is a deeper meaning and underling tone in it, and it starts playing a few notes of Soul Phrase and it later restarts the song.
this was quite a sad ko-tone video
I'm honestly so sick of Persona fans who hate Kotone (mostly men because duh, how dare you expect a man to be fine with romancing men or something along those lines and how dare you make the hero female that is so woke).
I understand if someone isn't a fan of her personality or social links. Everyone has their own preferences they are entitled to. However, claiming it's better she isn't in Reload or that she doesn't belong there because it's supposed to be a nostalgic experience is just ridiculous.
Just because you don't want to play her route or her route isn't nostalgic to you, doesn't mean no one else should be able to play her route in Reload.
It's true Makoto's route is the original, so it's the most likely to be nostalgic for people, but not everyone is rich, so many people would have only had a PSP as their sole gaming console. Especially girls/women would have likely chosen to play as Kotone instead of Makoto. Kotone was my first experience with P3 too. Hence not adding her to the game means removing the nostalgia factor for some fans.
Having a female protagonist also just helps a good chunk of the fandom feel seen. Many Persona fans are female.
(The argument this is just about "waifus" is also stupid, at least if you think Kotone is the "waifu". Most Kotone fans are female. On the other hand, for many male fans this is about "waifus", because Kotone "forces" them to romance men. (They aren't forced to romance anyone at all and Aigis's social link is still romantic.))
I love Kotone, she's so awesome. One of the few (It's hopefully not a few) male fans of Kotone and she's my favorite protagonist next to Tatsuya. She's just like me fr... Wish she was in Reload but the modding community is pulling massive weight!
I'm a man, and I'm definitely a fan of Kotone as well. But since Persona to me is so much more than just some meaningless dating simulator, her male romance options don't bother me one bit. Plus, it just makes sense; of course a girl character is going to have male romance options! But I'm glad that her route in p3p made them optional like you said, whereas Makoto's route for nearly 20 years across three games (p3, p3fes, and p3p) basically forced you to romance all female social links in order to max them out. Like, I personally don't want to romance Yuko but I have to in order to reach Strength 10. I like her fine; no hate for her. She's just not the type of character I'd be romantically interested in. That was easily yet another amazing improvement in Reload when they made Makoto's romance options optional, thus including more dialogue for the new platonic routes, and even giving certain characters a better chance to shine on their own (a great example being Mitsuru, who during Makoto's romance route would essentially hide behind him and use her love for him against her arranged fiancé in order to cut ties, while in the new platonic route and in Kotone's link with her in p3p, she rejects him purely on the basis of him being a huge d-bag and her respect for both herself and her friends).
Anyways, back to Kotone herself, I will admit that I am annoyed when representation in media occurs for the sake of representation alone and thus constructs poorly written characters whom the franchise forces to be likeable without real merit. I think most people can agree with that when talking about characters like Rey in the Star Wars sequels, or the live-action Mulan. All the more reason why I love Kotone. As said in the video, she isn't "Makoto, but a girl". She's her own character with her own values to add to this game that can't be found with Makoto. So she clearly wasn't meant to fulfill some sort of political agenda, or appease a certain crowd. But instead give a new, and insightful perspective on a story that Persona fans were already familiar with. Plus, also like was said in the video, she comes with brand new social link characters like Sayori and Rio (shoutout to the brief background cameos they made in Persona 3 The Movie #3: Falling Down, just like all the other social link characters throughout that film series), and through Kotone, we could get social links with the male SEES teammates for the first time, meaning that we got to see more of Junpei, Akihiko, Ken, Shinjiro, and even Koromaru than was already showcased in the main story for both Makoto and Kotone.
Alot to say that I fully support her inclusion in p3p, and she's one of the best parts of Persona Q2. I am personally rather sad that Atlus will likely not be adding her into Reload. While the fan made mods for her are interesting, I doubt they'll be able to fully replicate and reimagine the experience of her route in p3p, since she still wields her naginata just like Makoto does his shortsword, and as far as I can tell, no efforts have been made to reimagine her exclusive social links in Reload. Literally, I spent the $100 to preorder the super special edition or whatever its called of p3r, and then spent more once Episode Aigis released so I could get that too. So I'll gladly spend however much more I need to on an official DLC from Atlus that truly remakes Kotone and her route. If that happens, I'll immediately tell Atlus "shut up and take my money!!"
Sigma Kotone
I just want a gender option in p6. In a forced way, it'd make up for FeMC's absence in P3R. ... Okay no it wouldn't, but it'd be better than nothing.
Moist critical is that you
What did they mean by "Shonji live" he still died his body is beyond save even he never getting shot he is already dead
I try to understand what people insinuate with the canon argument, but I just don't get it. Like, they can just say they aren't interested in Kotone, that's fine, but trying to argue it from a point of canonicity just feels weird. Are they saying because she isn't canon any future releases won't focus on her so why care, but the story of Persona 3 is over! Do they genuinely believe Atlus will actually in a substantial way continue the story, and I mean like beyond just cameos in spin-offs?
And honestly, if Atlus did try to continue the story, you'd know that'd just lead to a whole new discourse, and I, for one, would be glad if Kotone wasn't involved in that.
🔥🔥🔥
2:25 a certain Great Mara from the fandom megaten wiki is contemplating your murder right about now, sorry mate
Honestly the way I see it makoto yuki and kotone shiomi are the best protags in persona other than yu narukami being at number 1 of course
I'm shocked, Makoto is suffering from depression!!? Can you make a video about this?
Too bad the makoto fanboys won't agree to your statements
No ones even disagreed
@@Blitzhound764 I disagree and am proud of it.
@@phrinus You want a medal?
@@melmeron7843 A chocolate one, if you have one of those, please.
@@phrinus You'd get the same chocolate people bake shitpies out of.
saving shinji isn't a point against kotone, it's a point against the writer e.e
The issue with all this is that FeMC was added to portable as the extension of the new theme Hashino implemented called the "butterfly effect". Essentially, something that allows you to change fates of Chidori and Shinjiro, and.... directly contradicts the previous sentiments of Hashino himself of how their deaths are not meant to be these huge tragedies, because they've accepted the fact that they will die and passed away satisfied. (Read the interview if you want context)
I already mentioned how the pink color addition only works as the extension of Kotone's personality and doesn't display the game's themes in the same way blue does, as well as how the FACT that she has more personality/dialogue choices that veer into a less vague direction than Makoto's turns a potentially universal experience into something lesser. Makoto can act cheery, she CANNOT act apathetically. The Protagonist (if we believe the writers) is supposed to be this empty shell that represents the lack of ambition, drive and direction in life. Also, it doesn't matter HOW they connect with others, but the fact that they do. How Kotone behaves can only be attributed t9 a limited amount of individuals, while you can make Makoto say whatever you want. How can you guys not understand how important this is?
Her having "more personality" is exactly the issue.
As for the DSM-5... (and ICD for that matter) here's the thing: "According to DSM-5, at least one of the symptoms is either depressed mood or loss of interest or pleasure. Depressed mood occurs nearly every day as subjective feelings like sadness, emptiness, and hopelessness or observations made by others. Loss of interest or pleasure occurs in all, or almost all activities of the day, nearly every day. These symptoms, as well as five out of the nine more specific symptoms listed, must frequently occur for more than two weeks (to the extent in which it impairs functioning) for the diagnosis."
If Makoto or Kotone TRULY had depression, they would NOT be able to go to Tartarus, where in the Dark Hour your stamina is further drained and you experience even worse fatigue. So, once again, bringing up DSM-5 as an argument didn't work. I win these.
To the first point: Woah, the dude changed his own mind on the story he wrote. It's not like every author ever does this -- this point is useless because you're just upset he didn't stick to the original intention YOU liked.
The pink color scheme is not only a reflection of Kotone's personality. Pink is a counterpart to blue, not only in gender, but in mood. Pink is the childish joy and passion the S.E.E.S. members feel as they begin to live life, which is an important theme of Persona 3. All the characters are drowning in a sea, even Kotone, but they still get up and continue to keep going because there's stuff to look forward to.
Kotone actually has a lot of sarcastic dialogue, and this is important because it suggests she is moodier than Makoto. Makoto's choices aren't apathetic -- him saying 'I don't care' is him not wanting to make a decision in case it's wrong, whereas Kotone will snap and tell people to leave her alone. I'm really tired of people painting Makoto as apathetic and a blank slate when that's absolutely not true. Makoto's will to live is evident even in the beginning of the game when he questions why Yukari has a gun. If you watched this video, you would understand this.
"How Kotone behaves can only be attributed to a limited amount of individuals" Then why do so many people relate to her instead of Makoto? How do you assume that people cannot relate to her? Yes, relatability is important to a main character, but Persona already had protagonists with defined personalities such as Tatsuya and Maya from Persona 2, Aigis from FES, and even P5's MC was inspired a bit by Kotone in how he's given a defined personality, showcasing her influence.
Your assessment of depression is wrong. "If they truly had depression, they would NOT be able to go to Tartarus," but chronic depression manifests for different reasons from different disorders such as PTSD. People OFTEN cope with this. I as someone with complex PTSD and Bipolar II STILL do things -- I don't feel particularly exhausted on certain days, but I still have chronic episodes that leave me unable to leave my bed or keep up a routine. The protagonist (either Makoto or Kotone) are literally knocked out for two weeks after awakening their persona, and every character is weakened if they're sick or they're in a terrible mood, causing them to get hit more frequently by status ailments, criticals, etc. You can literally just never go to Tartarus and hang out with everyone.
You don't really 'win' anything. Everything you've said is easy to disprove. You're not wrong for having an opinion on the video's points, but you're wrong in bragging as if you're excessively intelligent and understand everything about Persona 3 when it's very easy to prove you wrong.
@@nymphia I’m not going to talk with someone who didn’t at least read the Hashino interviews. Bye-bye. We are on different planets.
@@nymphia You know what? Screw it. I feel like proving wrong people like you. So, let it commence.
To your first point. If Kotone fit the original intent, why would he deem her inclusion "not worth it" in the remake? If she "fit all the themes" as you say? Huh? Huuuh? If she truly was as valuable to the story and as important he'd make sure she would be in it, and yet she isn't.
Next. Color scheme.
"Pink is a counterpart to blue, not only in gender, but in mood."
Not in Japan. The counterpart to blue is red, bc both are part of 4 primary colors in Japanese culture. Not to mention the importance of meanings of those 4 colors vs "pink". It's such an insane downgrade in this sense, it's not even funny.
"All the characters are drowning in a sea." The sea is fucking blue.
"Makoto's choices aren't apathetic -- him saying 'I don't care' is him not wanting to make a decision in case it's wrong." Where did I say he WAS apathetic, huh? (Act apathetically /= is apathetic) Please, learn to read first before arguing with me.
"I'm really tired of people painting Makoto as apathetic and a blank slate."
Exerpt of the interview: "HASHINO: Lots of young people today feel no pressing urge to accomplish anything. They're bored, lack interests." Makoto's experience is supposed to represent this "universality", where his "vagueness" as a character is supposed to immerse the player in the same way as if we themselves would experience death. And, since we acted as we potentially would and inserted our own personality into Makoto, it hits way harder. And is the author's intent.
"Then why do so many people relate to her instead of Makoto?"
Because Kotone fans are vocal. In Japanese popularity polls she hasn't exceeded Makoto's popularity even before the release of reload.
"Yes, relatability is important to a main character, but Persona already had protagonists with defined personalities." Because, the intention of making the P3 mc a self-insert is important to the game's themes. It's ALL in that interview, m'dude. Just read it. It's not that hard.
"Your assessment of depression is wrong." Your courage stat must truly be maxed out as you're talking to someone who STUDIES psychiatry in uni.
"but chronic depression manifests for different reasons from different disorders such as PTSD." Sure, but that's not the rule. And so what? Makoto (not in the movies) or Kotone don't have PTSD.
"People OFTEN cope with this." Funnily enough, the diagnostic criteria is that you CANNOT cope with it, and that's why it's a disorder.
"I as someone with complex PTSD and Bipolar II STILL do things." Because. Bipolar and MDD are COMPLETELY different disorders. You have episodes of depression, chronic depression as part of the MDD is something that doesn't have "days off" or intermissions.
"I still have chronic episodes that leave me unable to leave my bed or keep up a routine."
Your disorder is what's chronic, not the episodes themselves, they're called "acute". And you are essentially completely "healthy" when you aren't in a depressive phase. That's what's so debilitating to patients with bipolar, actually. I'm sorry you have to go through that. I hope the pills tone it down at least a little.
"The protagonist (either Makoto or Kotone) are literally knocked out for two weeks after awakening their persona, and every character is weakened if they're sick or they're in a terrible mood, causing them to get hit more frequently by status ailments, criticals, etc."
This is literally normal reactive behavior to stress. They're essentially child soldiers, remember? But everyone with no diagnoses in their position would feel the same way.
"Everything you've said is easy to disprove."
Nuh-uh. Continue seething.
"you're wrong if you're excessively intelligent and understand everything about Persona 3 when it's very easy to prove you wrong." Really? Did you end up proving me wrong? No. So, I am "excessively intelligent". Toodles.
@@phrinus once again, if that seriously how you look at people with depression and you claim to actually be studying psychology. Stay the fuck out of it. I seriously fear for your potential patients.
Even if everything you said is true, none of it matters. Other peoples' experience and resonance with Minako has had meaning. You can see that in this video, and in the comments on it. There's no point in trying to "disprove" anything, or be "correct" in interpreting her character, just because you came away from the experience with a different understanding than others. You can not take away what Minako means to people, especially to those struggling with mental illness that found solace in her character.