At first I thought this might be a disguised Sargent Signature... they’re really nasty. FWIW, I think you would have opened it had the markings been intact and you had done a quick google search on the design. I see this as “security by obscurity,” which never seems to hold up very long. In any case, I’m glad PC sent you the lock... I’d never seen one before, so I definitely learned something today. 👍
Sargent is a rather obscure name outside of locksmith and contract hardware circles... with this said, Sargent only caters to the commercial & institutional markets through a network of authorized distributors and hardware sales offices, much like Assa-Abloy's other companies, like Corbin/Russwin & Yale ... of which also offers competitive product lines of security hardware.
Every time I see a "whipped" Video. I watch it because I know there is some crazy mechanism in it. Keep it up and thanks for explanation on the side detents.
Genius lies in thinking of a simple solution or a simple puzzle like this one. It's often easy with hindsight, but there's the trick. It's like inventing the safety pin, the zip fastener, buttons, or even your favourite fallback sport, crocheting. Thanks Bill.
Dude, I'ma shitty lockpicker age 35 (Massachusettes) been doin it since i learned the basic idea around age 16 when i bought Bill Phillips latest edition (at that time) of "Locksmithing". Back then, the internet was still a pain in the ass. I still hope to one day open my own buisness, i help people constantly into their cars/homes/desks/safes. I appreciate your shared knowledge in ways you can't imagine! Thanks bud! Been subscribed for about 4 months.
Wait a second... there is no "security by obscurity" here. This is just exactly the way this particular core comes. Huge kudos to Bosnian Beast for showing a fail with grace. Forgot how much I like him. (I wonder if LPL is equally human?)
Now first I am not into picking locks. There was a time I did have a interest in being a locksmith. So the reason for watching! But I enjoy theses videos and more enjoy your honesty. Whipped by a lock OK why is your question? And you show why! Very Kool! Thank you keep up the good videos.
im liking the increase in video production quality! i know you've put a crazy amount into sound, but i really enjoy the new 60fps videos as well as the new transitions that take away some of the extra unneeded time.
Alaric Balthi The entire Sargent line is very versed. There are several design series to go through. This model is the XC, and then there is the Degree series. Much like the Medeco M3 sidebar & slider, and the Signature series 2 sidebars with 6 side pins 3 on each side. Some phenomenal locks. But far from cheap. Cheers and happy pickin
It always seems the people who are among the best in a certain area, are also more likely to be able to admit being beat, and to be excited about it because they know they're about to add to their knowledge.
I also think that if you stuck a bar/rod down to push the pin at the rear, it may not depress unless there is enough of a gap for the front pin to go all the way in.
I would say it was a lever and it has two bumps on either side of the fulcrum. You can lift the back one but if you use a key to attempt to lift it, the second bump will stop it lifting, hence the second cut out.
Picked my first lock today. An old Abus 85/50 from my shed. It’s a weird lock though. Feels like the last pin is off centre somehow. Anyway, the videos you post have given me a new hobby. Cheers!
WOW, that is an Amazing security trap mechanism! Absolutely genius!!! 10/10 to that locksmith or Lock Company! I would love to see this picked even if the person new about the trap mechanism!
Looking at the documents on the Sargent website in the parts diagrams for the 858 lock there is a version of the Bible 11-6300 xc key system that has the slots in the Bible that match this lock, so it seems to be a commercial design. I've wondered why companies didn't test for something as thick as a key to help prevent picking, this seems to be a step in that direction.
john graesser Sargent makes many different varieties of high security locks. And yes you are so right about how this needs to be explored moreover. But greed has sunk its claws into the industry and patents make it where the technology is owned. So we have to wait and see what cleverness we can come up with.
For the Sargent locks with the trap pin on the lower side I use a key cut down the middle and I put the bottom half of the key into the lock so the trap pin can fall into place, then use my small sparrows half diamond to manipulate the pins while my half key is still in place. Its very difficult but possible. I keep the bottom half of a sargent key in my pin kit just for these
Wicked stuff there! Excellent work, and such precision by abloy/Sargent. I'd still be bending and breaking picks! Thanks for the video and behind the scenes tutorial!
Amazing design! I bet Lock Picking Lawyer would even have a difficult time with this, no matter how far outside of the box he goes. Of course, after watching your video he would have a CRUCIAL piece of info you didn't have so there's that... lol
I lived in New Haven, ct. , I lived very close to where these locks are made. They do have a good rep, I always wanted to work there,,, TY Sir,,, luv all your videos ! PS,,, I believe there are several lock makers in Ct. 😁🖒🇺🇸
How would you have defeated the detente? Would there have been a way to notice it, and defeat that feature? Would the sidebar be something that could be defeated also? Would that detente defeat a plug spinner?
Great lock I understand the concept of the hole on the left side of the Bible as well in case being picked counterclockwise it would catch after so many degrees of turn also understand using all spools in case you felt feedback you would have to back off tension a little and possibly get caught by the detent again excellent lock I do not comment very often but great job
Bosnianbill and once again, thank you so much for all your tips and advice. It really humbles me that you took the time to do so. Thanks also for making these videos, they are so educational, informative, and I always learn something from them. It’s on my bucket list to have my own sort of lock lab, although it’ll really just be a general purpose man cave with some locks in it! I’m an electronics kid, mainly... but I do love locks, too. Thanks for being awesome!
That's a really fine design. If the tiny lever at the back was up high behind a deep cut pin it would be very difficult to get to it especially if the driver pin at the back was sedated, I think a wouldbe criminal would have broken thier picks in frustration at the thing and given up. Here's a question; what if a lock had a trap pin at the front right where your tension wrench would go and the front plate entry was bevelled so your tension tool would slip out?
Is it possible to make a flag/tensioner combo? I think it would be hard to work around, but, I don't see anything else that would work. Looks like the most secure traditional style lock I've seen to date.
Even if you could have gotten to it, how would you pick the lock with a pick already in there to hold it up to keep it out of the groove...? I see absolutely no way of picking it, unless you have a key with built-in pick-tips for each pin...
Michael Berthelsen Once you depress the detent, you get a mini-false set when it hangs up on the 6 pins in the core. From there, it is like picking a regular 6-pin lock.
Bosnianbill But you'd still have to keep it depressed, no? Alternatively, to make it harder, extend the external groove, so it can't set without a key (or two picks) in the lock?
Once the trap has been moved to a false set, there's no room for it to come up again until it reaches another cutout; the trick then would be to ensure one of the other pins requires enough counter-rotation to defeat the spooling so that the trap can reset, and then you're back to square 1.
Neil is right. Once you pick the detent and the core rotates a tiny bit, the detent is held down by the body of the lock - just like a picked pin would be.
Well Bill I have to say that I feel this is just security by obscurity... it is a simple Sargent XC it is a lot like the Everest but at a different place in the lock. Now it is a different mechanism than the Everest but the same outcome. But in the end... it better look nicely done... it was done professionally by Sargent. And ultimately a standard pinned Sargent. I personally have 4 of these XC locks... and I just can't call it a true challenge lock. Sorry🤔
ABLOY EXPERT I think SP is simply stating that it contains standard factory components. I'd bet my left arm that Bill wouldn't have uploaded this video if it weren't for the trap feature. I know for a fact that he doesn't upload videos of challenge locks with nothing but commercial pins because that's already been done. Normalizing pin stacks with commercial spools doesn't make this a valid challenge lock. It just doesn't. Still a cool lock though.
ABLOY EXPERT Bill recently accepted ones that exceed MACS but I don't. Anyway take it easy, man. It's just a lock. It's supposed to be a fun hobby. Not a blood sport. Nobody is attacking you personally. We're simply commenting on the guts.
Well man, you definitely have all the answers too... and know that my opinion is crap! I do have 4 of the XC series and yeah you didn't modify anything in that lock but put commercial spools in it and calling it a modified challenge lock. Yes I say mine are exactly like the one you sent Bill... with different bitting and pinning... But the same "modifications" in the core. That you for some reason want credit for. And not to mention that Bill said he could pick it no problem once he saw the guts... and LPL said the EXACT same thing that I did about "security by obscurity" So go ahead and get all defensive over someone else's opinions. That's all they are really, Opinions. And you too have a great day.
Makes me wonder if it would be possible to create a keyway that was pickable, but did not actually open the lock unless the actual key was inserted. Not just a "false gate", but a "false lock" -- it rotates, but nothing happens... It's funny that I like watching this channel since not only do I not own any picking tools, but I have never tried, nor do I have any desire to be able to pick a lock. I figure that if I ever have a lock that I own that I have lost the key to, I have plenty of power tools that can defeat whatever security it might have. If an angle grinder doesn't work, I'm pretty sure my oxy-fuel torch will work.
Excellent video, as it really held my interest to the very end. With Property of US Govt on key, might suggest this is a high Security padlock. Was the shackle made of very high tensile steel, to prevent it being ground off, or cut off with bolt cutters.
MrMinigun457 He didn't make it... it is the Sargent XC series, and available on Ebay for $29 Sargent makes much harder that this model. But this one is a very effective lock!!!
Steel Pinnings oh thank you I fugured he made it as he kept making reference to the guy being a locksmith and I know you can make your own pins change springs and add pins I figured this was a mod
At first I thought this might be a disguised Sargent Signature... they’re really nasty.
FWIW, I think you would have opened it had the markings been intact and you had done a quick google search on the design. I see this as “security by obscurity,” which never seems to hold up very long.
In any case, I’m glad PC sent you the lock... I’d never seen one before, so I definitely learned something today. 👍
I agree, just like ths Schlage Everest. Once I knew about the detent and picked it first, it was just a 6-pin lock.
Guys utube name is abloy expert, yeah he might be a locksmith by trade 😁
Janne Heino possibly and probably but who puts expert in their username though?🤐
Don'z Lockz it is quite a claim, but, i think abloy was already in use 🤔
Sargent is a rather obscure name outside of locksmith and contract hardware circles... with this said, Sargent only caters to the commercial & institutional markets through a network of authorized distributors and hardware sales offices, much like Assa-Abloy's other companies, like Corbin/Russwin & Yale ... of which also offers competitive product lines of security hardware.
Every time I see a "whipped" Video. I watch it because I know there is some crazy mechanism in it. Keep it up and thanks for explanation on the side detents.
Superb design. Bill, your honesty at the fail is what sets you apart.
A good sportsman knows when he's beat
Genius lies in thinking of a simple solution or a simple puzzle like this one. It's often easy with hindsight, but there's the trick. It's like inventing the safety pin, the zip fastener, buttons, or even your favourite fallback sport, crocheting. Thanks Bill.
Excellent craftsmanship. Nice try Bill , I always learn things better the hard way also lol
Holy crap the video quality and the production just felt so good. Along with quality content I just loved this video in general.
Dude, I'ma shitty lockpicker age 35 (Massachusettes) been doin it since i learned the basic idea around age 16 when i bought Bill Phillips latest edition (at that time) of "Locksmithing". Back then, the internet was still a pain in the ass. I still hope to one day open my own buisness, i help people constantly into their cars/homes/desks/safes. I appreciate your shared knowledge in ways you can't imagine! Thanks bud! Been subscribed for about 4 months.
Absolutely amazing love this design. The guys deserves a medal. Thanks bill. Great look at a great lock.
This guy is a genius . Be a great lock to sell to those afraid of picking.
Wait a second... there is no "security by obscurity" here. This is just exactly the way this particular core comes. Huge kudos to Bosnian Beast for showing a fail with grace. Forgot how much I like him. (I wonder if LPL is equally human?)
Now first I am not into picking locks. There was a time I did have a interest in being a locksmith. So the reason for watching! But I enjoy theses videos and more enjoy your honesty. Whipped by a lock OK why is your question? And you show why! Very Kool! Thank you keep up the good videos.
Now that you know what's in it do you think you could pick it? That's a hell of a padlock
Yes, once I knew how to deactivate the detent, it was like picking a normal 6-pin padlock. The wizardry was in that darn detent.
That is one smooth working key!
if you look closer on the same spring area there is a small pin thats holding the detent down held in place
Beautiful lock, elegant design. Thanks for sharing.
Beautiful work on that core.. extremely clever design
That lock is amazing
im liking the increase in video production quality! i know you've put a crazy amount into sound, but i really enjoy the new 60fps videos as well as the new transitions that take away some of the extra unneeded time.
That challenge lock was 1337, as in video #1337
Leet.
@@jamesoxford4260 1337*. D0n'7 y0u kn0w 1337 h4x0r sp33k?
This was more straightforward and polished but i have been thinking same kind of idea. Good to know that someone else thought this to be valid idea :)
Alaric Balthi
The entire Sargent line is very versed.
There are several design series to go through.
This model is the XC, and then there is the Degree series. Much like the Medeco M3 sidebar & slider, and the Signature series 2 sidebars with 6 side pins 3 on each side.
Some phenomenal locks. But far from cheap.
Cheers and happy pickin
It always seems the people who are among the best in a certain area, are also more likely to be able to admit being beat, and to be excited about it because they know they're about to add to their knowledge.
I also think that if you stuck a bar/rod down to push the pin at the rear, it may not depress unless there is enough of a gap for the front pin to go all the way in.
Wow!!! amazing clever to defeat picks!
This is a very cool lock, nice job Mr.Bill
I would say it was a lever and it has two bumps on either side of the fulcrum. You can lift the back one but if you use a key to attempt to lift it, the second bump will stop it lifting, hence the second cut out.
That is a beautiful padlock!
Dang... what a design! Very nice!
Picked my first lock today. An old Abus 85/50 from my shed. It’s a weird lock though. Feels like the last pin is off centre somehow. Anyway, the videos you post have given me a new hobby. Cheers!
Sargent assa XC series. Very good lock. Happy picking
Fantastic lock, Bill, I would love to see you try it knowing what it has under the hood...
This is excellent pickproofing! Especially since on the outside it just looks like a normal lock.
Please pick it again showing how you'd defeat the detent.
Looked super smooth on key insertion and opening
Cool lock for a challenge. The detent working on a fulcrum is very neat. That would make for a tough bump
WOW, that is an Amazing security trap mechanism! Absolutely genius!!! 10/10 to that locksmith or Lock Company! I would love to see this picked even if the person new about the trap mechanism!
What a nice lock!
Sick key, cool design
I love the precision machining!!! Don’t feel bad Bill! That lock is insane!!!
What an amazing core.
Wow! Great design
Looking at the documents on the Sargent website in the parts diagrams for the 858 lock there is a version of the Bible 11-6300 xc key system that has the slots in the Bible that match this lock, so it seems to be a commercial design. I've wondered why companies didn't test for something as thick as a key to help prevent picking, this seems to be a step in that direction.
john graesser
Sargent makes many different varieties of high security locks. And yes you are so right about how this needs to be explored moreover.
But greed has sunk its claws into the industry and patents make it where the technology is owned. So we have to wait and see what cleverness we can come up with.
what an amazing lock
mmm Sargent...keyed up several of them today at work!
The lock was good but the tape was amazing!
I wish LPL would post whipped videos.
Does that happen? Lol.
He doesn’t post the videos where he can’t pick the lock. I would like to seem them, though.
The only thing that whips him is his gay lover...
Matthew Mills really He seems too good
@@SR-tn6gv check out his "top 10 nastiest keyways" video, it has several he hadn't got an open yet at the time of the video
What an amazing lock, no shame in not getting that open
A good sportsman knows when he's beat
Excellent lock I'd like to have a bunch of those
That was ingenious
For the Sargent locks with the trap pin on the lower side I use a key cut down the middle and I put the bottom half of the key into the lock so the trap pin can fall into place, then use my small sparrows half diamond to manipulate the pins while my half key is still in place. Its very difficult but possible. I keep the bottom half of a sargent key in my pin kit just for these
Nice one!!
Amazing lock.
The room in that lock for the addition of more nastiness is ridiculous
Good lock well done....
Could you have seen the trap with a borescope? It might be a tool to look into to add to your arsenal.
damn..whoever put that together was a smart dude.
Wicked stuff there! Excellent work, and such precision by abloy/Sargent. I'd still be bending and breaking picks! Thanks for the video and behind the scenes tutorial!
Very very cool!
waow, seriously, never seen something like that! so interesting!
The concept design is amazing !
Thank you for this video and for this lock!
That's an awesome idea, I'd love to know how he did that....
Wow, never seen anything like that. I would have had absolutely no chance...
Bill has sent me a lock like that, Just did not realize until now that trap pin is a Sargent design.
Awesome lock
Amazing design! I bet Lock Picking Lawyer would even have a difficult time with this, no matter how far outside of the box he goes. Of course, after watching your video he would have a CRUCIAL piece of info you didn't have so there's that... lol
That is one wicked design feature :-)
Beautiful lock!!!
Wow. I came into possession of a sargeant and thus far it has eluded me. I wish I had more time to focus just on picking...
genius design
I lived in New Haven, ct. , I lived very close to where these locks are made. They do have a good rep, I always wanted to work there,,, TY Sir,,, luv all your videos !
PS,,, I believe there are several lock makers in Ct. 😁🖒🇺🇸
Sneaky trap. Cheers bill.
How would you have defeated the detente? Would there have been a way to notice it, and defeat that feature?
Would the sidebar be something that could be defeated also?
Would that detente defeat a plug spinner?
Great lock I understand the concept of the hole on the left side of the Bible as well in case being picked counterclockwise it would catch after so many degrees of turn also understand using all spools in case you felt feedback you would have to back off tension a little and possibly get caught by the detent again excellent lock I do not comment very often but great job
Quality! I was thinking the detent holes on either side was to stop picking clockwise or anticlockwise , guess I got that wrong :0)
wow, great video! learned something new
that's a really cool lock
That is such a cool keychain, reminds me of what I used to have in hs, so jealous
I'd love to know if that trap mechanism is a factory design or custom added. Because that's seriously professional work in the latter case.
Check the description.
Bosnianbill ah, my apologies! I clearly didn't see that the first time. Sorry about that! Its a bloody genius design, though.
Bosnianbill and once again, thank you so much for all your tips and advice. It really humbles me that you took the time to do so. Thanks also for making these videos, they are so educational, informative, and I always learn something from them. It’s on my bucket list to have my own sort of lock lab, although it’ll really just be a general purpose man cave with some locks in it! I’m an electronics kid, mainly... but I do love locks, too.
Thanks for being awesome!
Sedated=serated. Auto correct text is the bane of modern tech. I wasn't suggesting lazy springs lol.
Somebody REALLY wanted a paclock!
LOVE me a whipped video!!
Pretty awesome lock. Would really like to know if it was something new, discontinued or exclusive somehow.
merlin308
It is a Sargent XC Series and available on Ebay currently for $29.
Cheers and happy pickin
wow what a cool lock
Very nice design in fact manufacturers should take notice, maybe keep it to themselves as much as possible, until you people get ahold of it!!!!
Very cool Lock, Ingenious. Love the way you explain how this lock works Mr.Bill. Thanks
That's a really fine design. If the tiny lever at the back was up high behind a deep cut pin it would be very difficult to get to it especially if the driver pin at the back was sedated, I think a wouldbe criminal would have broken thier picks in frustration at the thing and given up. Here's a question; what if a lock had a trap pin at the front right where your tension wrench would go and the front plate entry was bevelled so your tension tool would slip out?
So fun!
WOW! Is all I have to say to that one!
Is it possible to make a flag/tensioner combo? I think it would be hard to work around, but, I don't see anything else that would work. Looks like the most secure traditional style lock I've seen to date.
Even if you could have gotten to it, how would you pick the lock with a pick already in there to hold it up to keep it out of the groove...? I see absolutely no way of picking it, unless you have a key with built-in pick-tips for each pin...
Michael Berthelsen Once you depress the detent, you get a mini-false set when it hangs up on the 6 pins in the core. From there, it is like picking a regular 6-pin lock.
Bosnianbill But you'd still have to keep it depressed, no? Alternatively, to make it harder, extend the external groove, so it can't set without a key (or two picks) in the lock?
Michael Berthelsen I don’t think he’s going to give away all his trade secrets but he did pick it after reassembly I read in another post.
Once the trap has been moved to a false set, there's no room for it to come up again until it reaches another cutout; the trick then would be to ensure one of the other pins requires enough counter-rotation to defeat the spooling so that the trap can reset, and then you're back to square 1.
Neil is right. Once you pick the detent and the core rotates a tiny bit, the detent is held down by the body of the lock - just like a picked pin would be.
Well Bill I have to say that I feel this is just security by obscurity... it is a simple Sargent XC it is a lot like the Everest but at a different place in the lock. Now it is a different mechanism than the Everest but the same outcome.
But in the end... it better look nicely done... it was done professionally by Sargent. And ultimately a standard pinned Sargent. I personally have 4 of these XC locks... and I just can't call it a true challenge lock. Sorry🤔
Steel Pinnings I concur with Sir Steel Pinnings on all points.
ABLOY EXPERT I think SP is simply stating that it contains standard factory components. I'd bet my left arm that Bill wouldn't have uploaded this video if it weren't for the trap feature. I know for a fact that he doesn't upload videos of challenge locks with nothing but commercial pins because that's already been done. Normalizing pin stacks with commercial spools doesn't make this a valid challenge lock. It just doesn't. Still a cool lock though.
ABLOY EXPERT Exceeding MACS makes it even less than a legitimate challenge lock than the commercial pins.
ABLOY EXPERT Bill recently accepted ones that exceed MACS but I don't. Anyway take it easy, man. It's just a lock. It's supposed to be a fun hobby. Not a blood sport. Nobody is attacking you personally. We're simply commenting on the guts.
Well man, you definitely have all the answers too... and know that my opinion is crap!
I do have 4 of the XC series and yeah you didn't modify anything in that lock but put commercial spools in it and calling it a modified challenge lock.
Yes I say mine are exactly like the one you sent Bill... with different bitting and pinning... But the same "modifications" in the core. That you for some reason want credit for.
And not to mention that Bill said he could pick it no problem once he saw the guts... and LPL said the EXACT same thing that I did about "security by obscurity"
So go ahead and get all defensive over someone else's opinions.
That's all they are really, Opinions.
And you too have a great day.
Anti pick for sure, but is it anti bump key? I welcome feedback.
I believe so, because the detent is not deactivated until the key is fully inserted.
Okay so how do I find CrocheLab?
Ive designed a special needle that can go up in between those threads...
Assuming this becomes cheaper than Bowley, this seems promising to be highly pick resistant.
dragade101
Much cheaper buddy, it is the Sargent XC series and on Ebay currently for $29.
Happy pickin
Thanks!
While I acknowledge the bowley lock is good this is a simpler cheaper solution.
Makes me wonder if it would be possible to create a keyway that was pickable, but did not actually open the lock unless the actual key was inserted. Not just a "false gate", but a "false lock" -- it rotates, but nothing happens...
It's funny that I like watching this channel since not only do I not own any picking tools, but I have never tried, nor do I have any desire to be able to pick a lock. I figure that if I ever have a lock that I own that I have lost the key to, I have plenty of power tools that can defeat whatever security it might have. If an angle grinder doesn't work, I'm pretty sure my oxy-fuel torch will work.
Excellent video, as it really held my interest to the very end. With Property of US Govt on key, might suggest this is a high Security padlock. Was the shackle made of very high tensile steel, to prevent it being ground off, or cut off with bolt cutters.
Very cool
What do you make those shims out of
Could you have left all pins out and still have it be unpickable?
What a leet lock! hahaha congratz on 1337 videos!!!
Are there any rules to this lock challenge? I have some pretty tricksy ideas's
I think the only rule is in video 1265: ua-cam.com/video/QzgddeUbzG0/v-deo.htmlm29s
Impressive work..
I want to know how he made it
MrMinigun457
He didn't make it... it is the Sargent XC series, and available on Ebay for $29
Sargent makes much harder that this model.
But this one is a very effective lock!!!
Steel Pinnings oh thank you I fugured he made it as he kept making reference to the guy being a locksmith and I know you can make your own pins change springs and add pins I figured this was a mod