Mr BB, fellow locksmith here... just a guess but i believe the purpose of the ball bearing was to counter tension, and as a trap to ensure whenever you lightened tension, you'd lose your progress... this was very enjoyable to watch you take apart! good job Farmer13!
Back in the 80's, I would make cylinders much like this in the shop, pins in the side of plug for VP customers concerned about employees having unauthorized keys made. It worked very well back then, as we are a major Sargent distributor in NJ. Those days are gone, much more advanced key systems today. It was back in the mid-late 80's - 90's when we began to see manufactures adding another level or two on common cylinders. Had a lot of fun in those days. Also used to make Sargent 6300 cores in LA-LB-LC keyways out of left over 8-line plugs. Cut off the end, drill two holes for Unican Locks. Back then Sargent only made Removable Cores in the H-Family keyways. Since my boss was with Sargent for many years he finally convinced them to make the cores in L-R families. Back in those days we used many Unican Locksets in office buildings, where the Unican Locks could not be keyed into the system. This is when I began to make them in the shop, customers were happy and many returns.
Bill, I stumbled across your channel a couple of weeks ago. Then I found the LPL's channel. Watching you guys has been an inspiration. I have never picked a lock up until about 10 minutes ago. I had a sealed Kwikset entry knob and deadbolt set in the garage that had been there for more than 10 years. I opened it up and within 15 minutes had picked my first lock ever (The Deadbolt). I used a large safety pin bent to a hook with the point cut off, and a large staple like the ones used on big boxes as my tension wrench. I had to add a couple small bends to keep it tight. I was so excited I called my wife at work, she was not surprised (I like to tinker), then called me a dork! Around here that's a good thing! I am going to buy a beginners set now and I blame you and the LPL! Thank's for what you do. You make lock picking a form of entertainment. Much appreciated!
1to1it Hey buddy, I just wanted to let you know of the vast number of pickers on UA-cam. There is a huge community that exchange and trade locks and challenge locks. If you want a quick reference go to my channel and my subscriptions and check them all out... they also have giveaways with much better odds. Just an fyi... I love to see new picker getting into the sport. Cheers and Happy Pickin!!!
1to1it Same here! Bill's videos inspired me to take up picking, and being that I'm totally blind, it was super empowering to realize that I could totally participate in this hobby. Made a channel and everything. If you end up picking on UA-cam, I'll totally subscribe to you!
I watched these for a long time before I bought my first set (Mad Bobs) after Bill reviews the set. I also bought a cheep Chinese set to see if I could tell the difference and I could even as a total newbie. You should try it. Get a good set from a good company, Get a simple set with about 8ish picks and a top of the key way tension wrench and start with a crappy master lock. Its fun and it is a skill that will on rare occasions come in handy. Any way I agree I loved to watch these videos even before I started.
Bill has caused me to spend a lot of damn money, but I enjoy it tremendously. It is very frustrating at times, but you have to learn to set a timer, and walk away. But man when you get that first one, as simple as it may be, it clicks.. satisfying, and surprising. You have just done something you are not supposed to do. Like seeing a woman's tan lines hehe. I am hooked. Cool hobby, something to fall back on one day, and a good skill to have.
I agree with these replies....I found a lock picking set in a pickup truck in a junkyard with a nice leather case about 20 years ago. I never tried to use it until now....now I am expanding the kit. I just with I knew what that weird aluminum spring loaded tool did(something that was in the kit)??? I do find lockpicking a satisfying thing to do now when I need a break from the world. I was stunned to learn the easiest lock I have to pick was my gun lock! LOL
@@jasonbrindamour903 Pretty new myself but it sounds like either a spring hammer for hinge pins on doors, or possibly a tool for turning a lock you have picked but in the in the wrong direction, to the other direction without having to re pick it, it turns it fast enough that the pins can't fall back down . Hope that's more helpful than confusing haha.
My guess is that the ball bearing would lock itself into the spring holding it and then it dragged on the core instead of spinning. Putting a cup between the ball bearing and the spring would probably solve it.
I'd like to see you drop just the 6 pin set into a normal lock and just pick that. Pretty interesting pin set that seemed like you never really got to address with the sever binding and side pins.
Bill, can it be that the ball bearing with its strong spring kept the lock "aligned" so that the pins never even bound? Since you said that they all still felt springy. Also, I wonder if the side pins were meant to be kept in place by the regular pins in front of them, only popping _off_ the shear line when the pin in front of them was picked. Could you please check? Great challenge lock!
Aalbert Torsius ... to your second point I'm going to guess no. If the side pins were resting on the main pins, once the main ooh t was picked, the side pins would "fall", and the main pins wouldn't be able to return to the original position. So it would be a one time event.
Aalbert Torsius... ahhh, I see. So if picking was attempted, the side pins would drop, locking the mains puns above the shear line. So the picker would have to push the side pins back into place to allow the main pins to drop to allow a second attempt. Gotcha.
Aalbert Torsius from what I saw in the tear down, it looked like those pins had a long way to go to get to the core's center and be affected by the key pins to hold their position. It seemed to me that the driver pins set into the core a tiny bit under normal spring pressure. If they were as devious as your suggestion/idea of a sort of spring trap, breaking shear when 3&6 are picked, I think they would give away their presence much more overtly than Bill's actions/observations led me to believe. He couldn't detect how to get at them, at all. If they were under pressure against the key pins, the pick would feel different on those two positions. And I think the secret side pins, in holding the core's tensioning susceptibility to a minimum, in conjunction with the super tight ball bearing below (the BBB, ya know) managed to keep all vertical stacks springy. If the side pins were at shear until 3&6 were picked, I think this lock would have been easier. Less tension restriction, more evidence for detecting side pins, and a clear "down the road" position in the binding order.
to add to that, i feel like it rhe side pins were kept in place by the key pins, theres no guarentee that when you pulled the key out that they would go back to their proper place. although i guess that doesnt really matter
From the look of that lock, you've got me wondering if the mad Canadian, AvE has an identical twin. You need a machine shop to build something like that.
Bill I learned everything I know from you I've been a subscriber for several years now and I'm currently working on a lock for you I'm going to try to find a blank key to key it for you but I'm not going to tell you too much about it all I'm going to say is I'd never be able to pick the thing myself and each of the security pins are hand done in a drill with jewlers files
One good move to try on locks with stuck or hard to turn keys (either something in the mechanics is stuck or doesn't fit correctly).. try hitting the lock against your block on one side, then try key, then repeat on each side. It may loosen or reset the stuck piece and make the key lock turn easier and make it easier to feel the parts that may be stuck..Have to do each side one at a time(one time I only tried top and bottom and of course later found out if I hit the lock on the side, would have moved a stuck side pin I didn't know was there). Just a helpful trick with sticky locks. Keep up the great reviews! And great custom locks by submitters!
IF ... the old saying - - " knowledge is power " IS true , this lock makes BILL look clueless ! Whoever made this , I say JOB WELL DONE !!!! If , this lock ever makes it into a production lock it'll cost , the consumer a fortune ... the locksmith a headache & lost sleep !!!!
For what is essentially a self made housing the stiffness seems unintentional. It is quite possible the movement was very fluid initially but the bearing got jammed in a way that prevented it from spinning which made turning the luck very difficult. Manufacturing oversight more than anything else.
It looks like the ball bearing serves two purposes. one is to make the lock heavier so you didn't know if you actually managed to pick it. you said you had a couple of false sets, it could simply be that you fumbled the lock open without knowing it due to the heavy tension of the lock. another use of the bearing seems to be to align the lock to keep springy-ness in the top pins
my thoughts exactly, theres no way you would think to put 600 Nm of torque on it unless you already tried the key. i guess you could call that an anti pick feature but its a little dodgy
enjoyed the video and the work done on putting that lock together. Bill, one of these days could you have a show which shows us how the different type of pins work. i thought i understood it all but the pin in pin kind of throws me. not sure if it should be a key pin or a bible pin. and if i am picking "up" what does it do. if i pick down does it separate and act like a spool??? and one more thing is there such a thing as "pick proof"? (given unlimited time) if not, what would you say comes the closest to it.
The ball bearing is there to put some pression on the barrel to force very high tension when picked. Few picks, and pickers, should be suited for that much tension. No thumb up and no thumb down. I'd appreciate a pick session after all that knowledge from disassembly.
It is too bad that the lock was so tight, other than that I think that this is exactly the type of thing I would love to see protecting my home. I like how the side pins and the ball bearing would completely screw up a picker that does not know they are there but does not require any special modifications of the key. Multi part pins are a + as well. Just out of curiosity what are the odds of bumping that lock open, since using a key would bypass most of the unknown tricks with this lock?
probably minimal given the amount of tension in the core, but that's just a n00b guess based on estimated physics. seems it would be hard to bind the pins quick enough to stay at the shear point if the core is so hard to turn. especially with all those tricky pin types. maybe a bump key with improvised perpendicularly attached torque lever lol, or a crossbar handle like on a corkscrew. not sure how you'd make that though, a spot weld probably wouldn't be strong enough. maybe setting the key into a handle frame? definitely a specialized tool but maybe not a terrible idea?
As far as beating the detent, I think you could have filed a Groove in some music wire and use the warding on the key way to hold it in place. You could shove the music wire into the detent, push the detent down with a pick and then slide it past it. Then use the music wire as a rest for the pick.
If they mounted the side pins very low, that would make this over set the the side pins and seize the core until you remove the music wire, I couldn't tell how low the side pin for mounted in the actual key way, I would assume halfway up
Eddie Kalista music wire is just very stiff wire in various sizes, I'm not sure particularly why it's called that but you can Google search for it or buy it at hardware stores
Music wire is hardened, very difficult to bend. I think it was originally used for some piano strings. Instead of that, how about some thin sheets of brass inserted into the keyway? I think the bottom ward might hold the sheets down.
With all the challenge locks ive made i would consider a lock functional when its smooth to open this lock does have a good design but dodgy mechanics....
On the challenge locks, it seems such a difference if a lock is of commercial quality, meaning that it could be sold on the retail market with a quality control high enough that people would purchase it. And then a sub-category of locks that work but would not be of a high enough standard for realistic retail sales?
I know little about locks but do enjoy watching. This one was really interesting because I had the idea of side pin even if it worked with any key! Just for anti picking. Just a quick question is their some reason he could not patient this? Older video but still enjoyable! I should explain when I was in my teens I wanted to get into this after replacing locks and making all the lock fit the same key at my parents home!
Hi Bill. Big fan of your channel, just wanted to thank you for all the videos and the hard work you have put in. Just one question wanted to know ho to change the barrel or re-pin a key of a cheapo lock where it is not possible to remove the barrel. This just out of interest question, as people in our village have this done apposed to buying a new lock.
Personally Im not ok with any lock I build binding up, it has to work smooth or its not right. But like he said, maybe he messed somethin up trying to pick it.
It's technically working but not practically. It has so much tendency to jam that I wouldn't be tempted to pick it (even after seeing the internals) without removing parts until it does work reliably.
ultra n00b question (the only lock I ever picked in my life was the gym doorknob in elementary school so some of us could get in there after hours to play basketball, using a small unfolded paperclip bent into a tiny loop at the end as a pick, and a broken popsicle stick as a tensioner - seriously; it was pure luck I assure you but only took a minute or two, I was as amazed as the other kids lol, since I only had the slightest idea what I was doing at the time). anyway, what context would a lock like this be used in, I can't make sense of the mechanism on the back end - would this be paired with a deadbolt or used as some other kind of door lock? cheers for the insight either way, this stuff is weirdly fascinating.
I'm fairly new to legal picking and I find this hobby absolutely fascinating! I love being on the honest side of this and I have surpassed the negative I did during my career, making amends by assisting people with their (verified) lock troubles and by suggesting better security devices for what they need. Thanks to these videos, I have a better idea of what to suggest to people, so @Bosnianbill I thank you sir for what you do. It teaches me and inspires me to keep doing the right thing...and not to give up too easily! Lol. I know you said that this was made by someone, rather than a company, so what I'm wondering is why was it so tight to turn even with the key in place? That was because of the ball bearing, correct? Probably either too big of a bearing or too strong of a spring.
The ball is very interesting, it forces the key is inside, if you are picking the up pins and make tension, still you have to push down the ball. Very hard lock.
the back of the key push the ball bearing down thats why it was hard to turn because the spring and the ball were turning around the core wow thats just genious
Michael Pfadt agreed. Huge waste of Bill's time. He should have someone else open the key and try them first. This would not have passed the initial sniff test.
It opens with a key therefore it's a functional lock. Making it stiff enough to be impossible to open with a pick due to the torsion required is a legitimate way of defeating an attack, IMO.
those Allen grub screws u took out holding the pins in. do u know where a man could buy some of those I use them alot in my vape gear...I've bought carbon steel one m2.5x3mm and m3x3mm but would like some better ones that don't strip so easy
I gotta say it again. as much finesse you have, and touch when picking a lock to make it look so easy, you sure bugger it all up when gutting it hahah, quite comical actually. Fumble fingers, but hey, it makes Bill... well Bill hehehe. I'm not sure anyone could pick that crazy thing by the way...just stupid crazy pinned...
Lol he got you with those side millings again lmfao... Good thing I don't freqent the lock lab... There'd probably be a few hole disguising posters on the walls haha .... So frustrating
Well I hope you guys (including Bill and LPL) are happy. I just dropped almost $100 on my first kit and some practice locks from Dangerfield Praxis. You know, I had a perfectly fine life. I did not need to develop an addiction. But none of you could stop posting your videos and your comments, and now I am lost.
I am REALLY happy because it means that I am not the ONLY sucker out here!😂 I have so MUCH stuff that I bought, used once, then stashed away in a drawer...
I don’t think he would have gotten it anyway because all the parts were so tight in there and the core itself barely turned I don’t think he would have been able to get proper feedback on the pins. They prob would have gotten stuck
what a lock bill amazing in every way xxxxxxxxxxxxxxerlent pins in it well made well done I no u didn't pick it but 3 days is a long time ide like to try and pick it my self any way cool lock and better luck nextime thanks stiglocks..r..
Peter King This invokes a fundamental security principle: Security should work if the attacker knows everything except the key. Now in practice, secret traps do work against those who don't know, but that won't last long with mass produced locks as someone will get one and take it apart.
I call cheating... You could never pick it without something stronger than your tension wrench... Hell, you would need a torque wrench... The locking ball is the problem on the bottom... Too tight... You should have loosened the screw on the bottom and tried again...
The best lock to buy is the one that functions but makes all pickers give up even after having a thorough understanding of how it works and yet everyone can afford.
if you have to have a pipe wrench on the key to turn it, no way could you pick it. this lock was a fail, regardless of time spent to make it.. should have fixed the functionality of it you can see the galling in the bible from the ball bearing, Bill never turned the core.
Their is no way someone could pick that, you would need a tension tool as this as the key. Cant hardly turn it with even the key. I would call that challenge lock way too overdone.
I am really not impressed. I feel bad that Bill lost 3 days trying to pick this, when with the sheer amount of force required to rotate the keyway was beyond what he ever could have been expected to exert using even his most rigid and least flexible tools. Trying to pick a lock that stiff seems like more of an effort in futility than a "challenge", and stuff like this is, I imagine, why he stopped the challenge lock series altogether.
Seems kinda cheap to me man. If the key hardly works can it be considered a legitimate challenge. Imho a quality challenge would work as intended without having to fuss with the key so much. It's like saying you couldn't start you car because the brick you tossed at the refrigerator broke the window on your gas chamber.
I think this is a form of religion. I am now saved. Nasty bucket represents hell. I have two ugly locks in my nasty bucket. Cheap stuff less than 8 dollars. Both have keys and work just fine. I hate them. Remember Nietsche: "When you stare into the nasty bucket..."
This is not a functioning lock, maybe with some tweaking with tolerances it would be great. This is far from great. Even if you were able to pick it, it would have bent the living hell out of your picks and possibly snapped tension rods. So no not a whipped video bill chalk it up as maker error and put it in that category! Great videos!!
![[62] Miwa DS](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oev0vaESOlE/mqdefault.jpg)
Mr BB, fellow locksmith here... just a guess but i believe the purpose of the ball bearing was to counter tension, and as a trap to ensure whenever you lightened tension, you'd lose your progress... this was very enjoyable to watch you take apart! good job Farmer13!
Back in the 80's, I would make cylinders much like this in the shop, pins in the side of plug for VP customers concerned about employees having unauthorized keys made. It worked very well back then, as we are a major Sargent distributor in NJ. Those days are gone, much more advanced key systems today. It was back in the mid-late 80's - 90's when we began to see manufactures adding another level or two on common cylinders. Had a lot of fun in those days.
Also used to make Sargent 6300 cores in LA-LB-LC keyways out of left over 8-line plugs. Cut off the end, drill two holes for Unican Locks.
Back then Sargent only made Removable Cores in the H-Family keyways. Since my boss was with Sargent for many years he finally convinced them to make the cores in L-R families. Back in those days we used many Unican Locksets in office buildings, where the Unican Locks could not be keyed into the system. This is when I began to make them in the shop, customers were happy and many returns.
Bill, I stumbled across your channel a couple of weeks ago. Then I found the LPL's channel. Watching you guys has been an inspiration. I have never picked a lock up until about 10 minutes ago.
I had a sealed Kwikset entry knob and deadbolt set in the garage that had been there for more than 10 years. I opened it up and within 15 minutes had picked my first lock ever (The Deadbolt). I used a large safety pin bent to a hook with the point cut off, and a large staple like the ones used on big boxes as my tension wrench. I had to add a couple small bends to keep it tight.
I was so excited I called my wife at work, she was not surprised (I like to tinker), then called me a dork! Around here that's a good thing! I am going to buy a beginners set now and I blame you and the LPL! Thank's for what you do. You make lock picking a form of entertainment. Much appreciated!
1to1it
Hey buddy,
I just wanted to let you know of the vast number of pickers on UA-cam. There is a huge community that exchange and trade locks and challenge locks.
If you want a quick reference go to my channel and my subscriptions and check them all out... they also have giveaways with much better odds.
Just an fyi... I love to see new picker getting into the sport.
Cheers and Happy Pickin!!!
Im the same way. I also got the bug. Keep on keepin on.....
Thanks Albert. Just to convince myself it wasn't pure dumb luck I've picked both the inside and outside deadbolts 10 times.
1to1it Same here! Bill's videos inspired me to take up picking, and being that I'm totally blind, it was super empowering to realize that I could totally participate in this hobby. Made a channel and everything. If you end up picking on UA-cam, I'll totally subscribe to you!
Thats awesome Senshi! It's got to be a different experience for you. I will check out your channel.
why do I like watching ive never picked a lock in my life lol
I watched these for a long time before I bought my first set (Mad Bobs) after Bill reviews the set. I also bought a cheep Chinese set to see if I could tell the difference and I could even as a total newbie.
You should try it. Get a good set from a good company, Get a simple set with about 8ish picks and a top of the key way tension wrench and start with a crappy master lock. Its fun and it is a skill that will on rare occasions come in handy.
Any way I agree I loved to watch these videos even before I started.
Me too
Bill has caused me to spend a lot of damn money, but I enjoy it tremendously. It is very frustrating at times, but you have to learn to set a timer, and walk away. But man when you get that first one, as simple as it may be, it clicks.. satisfying, and surprising. You have just done something you are not supposed to do. Like seeing a woman's tan lines hehe. I am hooked. Cool hobby, something to fall back on one day, and a good skill to have.
I agree with these replies....I found a lock picking set in a pickup truck in a junkyard with a nice leather case about 20 years ago. I never tried to use it until now....now I am expanding the kit. I just with I knew what that weird aluminum spring loaded tool did(something that was in the kit)???
I do find lockpicking a satisfying thing to do now when I need a break from the world. I was stunned to learn the easiest lock I have to pick was my gun lock! LOL
@@jasonbrindamour903 Pretty new myself but it sounds like either a spring hammer for hinge pins on doors, or possibly a tool for turning a lock you have picked but in the in the wrong direction, to the other direction without having to re pick it, it turns it fast enough that the pins can't fall back down . Hope that's more helpful than confusing haha.
My guess is that the ball bearing would lock itself into the spring holding it and then it dragged on the core instead of spinning. Putting a cup between the ball bearing and the spring would probably solve it.
Imagine that in your front door and coming home after a few beers.
you would have to call a lock smith to use the key. LOL that was a fun video!
Imagine just trying to use it... period lol. That lock wants to be cool so bad that it doesnt even work.
I'd like to see you drop just the 6 pin set into a normal lock and just pick that. Pretty interesting pin set that seemed like you never really got to address with the sever binding and side pins.
Could you imagine if farmer13 started to work for master lock.
Bill you would freak out. LOL
Bill, can it be that the ball bearing with its strong spring kept the lock "aligned" so that the pins never even bound? Since you said that they all still felt springy.
Also, I wonder if the side pins were meant to be kept in place by the regular pins in front of them, only popping _off_ the shear line when the pin in front of them was picked. Could you please check?
Great challenge lock!
Aalbert Torsius ... to your second point I'm going to guess no. If the side pins were resting on the main pins, once the main ooh t was picked, the side pins would "fall", and the main pins wouldn't be able to return to the original position. So it would be a one time event.
I meant as an anti-pick measure. If used with the key, the key would keep those side pins in their place.
Aalbert Torsius... ahhh, I see.
So if picking was attempted, the side pins would drop, locking the mains puns above the shear line. So the picker would have to push the side pins back into place to allow the main pins to drop to allow a second attempt. Gotcha.
Aalbert Torsius from what I saw in the tear down, it looked like those pins had a long way to go to get to the core's center and be affected by the key pins to hold their position. It seemed to me that the driver pins set into the core a tiny bit under normal spring pressure. If they were as devious as your suggestion/idea of a sort of spring trap, breaking shear when 3&6 are picked, I think they would give away their presence much more overtly than Bill's actions/observations led me to believe. He couldn't detect how to get at them, at all. If they were under pressure against the key pins, the pick would feel different on those two positions. And I think the secret side pins, in holding the core's tensioning susceptibility to a minimum, in conjunction with the super tight ball bearing below (the BBB, ya know) managed to keep all vertical stacks springy. If the side pins were at shear until 3&6 were picked, I think this lock would have been easier. Less tension restriction, more evidence for detecting side pins, and a clear "down the road" position in the binding order.
to add to that, i feel like it rhe side pins were kept in place by the key pins, theres no guarentee that when you pulled the key out that they would go back to their proper place. although i guess that doesnt really matter
You and the lock picking lawyer have me hooked on every lock I can get my hand on. Thanks for the addiction. Love watching these.
From the look of that lock, you've got me wondering if the mad Canadian, AvE has an identical twin. You need a machine shop to build something like that.
Nah, AvE would have the tolerances correct so that "It VERKS" and the result would be far more skookum.
if AvE built something like that it would chooch real slick and probably would have had a dick on it for the vice
It would have came in several pieces covered in schmoo and a some assembly required sticker on the bag.
And the key would say cockford Ollie
He definitely needs some focus you fac
he would have sent all 15 prototypes as well
How many pinning trays do you have every single video you got a different pinning tray
Bill I learned everything I know from you I've been a subscriber for several years now and I'm currently working on a lock for you I'm going to try to find a blank key to key it for you but I'm not going to tell you too much about it all I'm going to say is I'd never be able to pick the thing myself and each of the security pins are hand done in a drill with jewlers files
One good move to try on locks with stuck or hard to turn keys (either something in the mechanics is stuck or doesn't fit correctly).. try hitting the lock against your block on one side, then try key, then repeat on each side. It may loosen or reset the stuck piece and make the key lock turn easier and make it easier to feel the parts that may be stuck..Have to do each side one at a time(one time I only tried top and bottom and of course later found out if I hit the lock on the side, would have moved a stuck side pin I didn't know was there). Just a helpful trick with sticky locks. Keep up the great reviews! And great custom locks by submitters!
Bill, I think the sprung ball is there to damp out any feeling on the tension tool pick and increase the turning force required to move the core.
IF ... the old saying - - " knowledge is
power " IS true , this lock makes BILL
look clueless !
Whoever made this , I say JOB WELL DONE !!!!
If , this lock ever makes it into a production lock it'll cost , the consumer a fortune ... the locksmith
a headache & lost sleep !!!!
For what is essentially a self made housing the stiffness seems unintentional. It is quite possible the movement was very fluid initially but the bearing got jammed in a way that prevented it from spinning which made turning the luck very difficult.
Manufacturing oversight more than anything else.
It looks like the ball bearing serves two purposes. one is to make the lock heavier so you didn't know if you actually managed to pick it. you said you had a couple of false sets, it could simply be that you fumbled the lock open without knowing it due to the heavy tension of the lock. another use of the bearing seems to be to align the lock to keep springy-ness in the top pins
my thoughts exactly, theres no way you would think to put 600 Nm of torque on it unless you already tried the key. i guess you could call that an anti pick feature but its a little dodgy
enjoyed the video and the work done on putting that lock together. Bill, one of these days could you have a show which shows us how the different type of pins work. i thought i understood it all but the pin in pin kind of throws me. not sure if it should be a key pin or a bible pin. and if i am picking "up" what does it do. if i pick down does it separate and act like a spool??? and one more thing is there such a thing as "pick proof"? (given unlimited time) if not, what would you say comes the closest to it.
Do you think you picked it, but didn't have bionic tension to turn it open??
The ball bearing is there to put some pression on the barrel to force very high tension when picked. Few picks, and pickers, should be suited for that much tension.
No thumb up and no thumb down. I'd appreciate a pick session after all that knowledge from disassembly.
It is too bad that the lock was so tight, other than that I think that this is exactly the type of thing I would love to see protecting my home. I like how the side pins and the ball bearing would completely screw up a picker that does not know they are there but does not require any special modifications of the key. Multi part pins are a + as well. Just out of curiosity what are the odds of bumping that lock open, since using a key would bypass most of the unknown tricks with this lock?
probably minimal given the amount of tension in the core, but that's just a n00b guess based on estimated physics. seems it would be hard to bind the pins quick enough to stay at the shear point if the core is so hard to turn. especially with all those tricky pin types. maybe a bump key with improvised perpendicularly attached torque lever lol, or a crossbar handle like on a corkscrew. not sure how you'd make that though, a spot weld probably wouldn't be strong enough. maybe setting the key into a handle frame? definitely a specialized tool but maybe not a terrible idea?
As far as beating the detent, I think you could have filed a Groove in some music wire and use the warding on the key way to hold it in place. You could shove the music wire into the detent, push the detent down with a pick and then slide it past it. Then use the music wire as a rest for the pick.
If they mounted the side pins very low, that would make this over set the the side pins and seize the core until you remove the music wire, I couldn't tell how low the side pin for mounted in the actual key way, I would assume halfway up
"music wire"? you mean something like guitar string? cause thats a cool idea for an improvised tool
Eddie Kalista music wire is just very stiff wire in various sizes, I'm not sure particularly why it's called that but you can Google search for it or buy it at hardware stores
Music wire is hardened, very difficult to bend. I think it was originally used for some piano strings.
Instead of that, how about some thin sheets of brass inserted into the keyway? I think the bottom ward might hold the sheets down.
With all the challenge locks ive made i would consider a lock functional when its smooth to open this lock does have a good design but dodgy mechanics....
At first, I thought the side pins were a trap that would push the pins into the core when placed in a vise. Interesting load for sure.
I love the MR rating symbols. Usually nobody really remembers that we exist.
And the ones that do remember are quick to heap derision, demand the impossible and question why your job takes so much time. :D
On the challenge locks, it seems such a difference if a lock is of commercial quality, meaning that it could be sold on the retail market with a quality control high enough that people would purchase it. And then a sub-category of locks that work but would not be of a high enough standard for realistic retail sales?
I think the ball bearing may have been to keep the key pushed up against the pins, including the 2 side pins.
Hell of an impressive lock!
I know little about locks but do enjoy watching. This one was really interesting because I had the idea of side pin even if it worked with any key! Just for anti picking. Just a quick question is their some reason he could not patient this? Older video but still enjoyable! I should explain when I was in my teens I wanted to get into this after replacing locks and making all the lock fit the same key at my parents home!
Luv ya Bill, the only reason I've an interest in locks is because of you!
same here
-kenneth
That was painful to watch.
This really isn't a valid challenge lock. Nobody would use this IRL because it doesn't really work.
HA CALLED IT!!!! I didn't get the ball bearing, but I guessed there was a spring pushing against the core ^.^
Hi Bill. Big fan of your channel, just wanted to thank you for all the videos and the hard work you have put in.
Just one question wanted to know ho to change the barrel or re-pin a key of a cheapo lock where it is not possible to remove the barrel. This just out of interest question, as people in our village have this done apposed to buying a new lock.
good to see your new videos coming out just a lil bit earlier :) it means I don't have to wait until the morning for me to watch them :P
Impressive lock! I'd really like to see a video of you putting a lock TOGETHER at some point.
With all due respect, I must disagree with this being called a working lock. If you need a pry bar to turn the key, its just not ok.
Personally Im not ok with any lock I build binding up, it has to work smooth or its not right. But like he said, maybe he messed somethin up trying to pick it.
It's technically working but not practically. It has so much tendency to jam that I wouldn't be tempted to pick it (even after seeing the internals) without removing parts until it does work reliably.
When it comes to challenge locks, it only has to turn using the key to be considered functional. It doesn't have to be practical.
I agree. Who knew the "challenge" would be using the actual key? :)
Looks like the bottom ball bearing was tightened too much, loosen it and it will work fine
SEND THIS TO LPL!!!!
ultra n00b question (the only lock I ever picked in my life was the gym doorknob in elementary school so some of us could get in there after hours to play basketball, using a small unfolded paperclip bent into a tiny loop at the end as a pick, and a broken popsicle stick as a tensioner - seriously; it was pure luck I assure you but only took a minute or two, I was as amazed as the other kids lol, since I only had the slightest idea what I was doing at the time). anyway, what context would a lock like this be used in, I can't make sense of the mechanism on the back end - would this be paired with a deadbolt or used as some other kind of door lock? cheers for the insight either way, this stuff is weirdly fascinating.
That is some great pinning, and a one of a kind lock you made Mr. Farmer13. Can't win them all Mr.Bill, but liked how you when through the info
I'm fairly new to legal picking and I find this hobby absolutely fascinating! I love being on the honest side of this and I have surpassed the negative I did during my career, making amends by assisting people with their (verified) lock troubles and by suggesting better security devices for what they need. Thanks to these videos, I have a better idea of what to suggest to people, so @Bosnianbill I thank you sir for what you do. It teaches me and inspires me to keep doing the right thing...and not to give up too easily! Lol.
I know you said that this was made by someone, rather than a company, so what I'm wondering is why was it so tight to turn even with the key in place? That was because of the ball bearing, correct? Probably either too big of a bearing or too strong of a spring.
The ball is very interesting, it forces the key is inside, if you are picking the up pins and make tension, still you have to push down the ball. Very hard lock.
the back of the key push the ball bearing down thats why it was hard to turn because the spring and the ball were turning around the core wow thats just genious
Now THAT was a challenge lock! You'd better never make Farmer13 mad at you.
The only "challenge" here was getting the lock to function.
The Lock Picking Lebowski 😂😜
Dude for real. Idk why ppl are saying this was great. The person who made the lock went so overboard that the thing doesnt even function.
An interesting design, but with how difficult it is to operate I don’t know if I would consider it functional.
Michael Pfadt agreed. Huge waste of Bill's time. He should have someone else open the key and try them first. This would not have passed the initial sniff test.
Perhaps graphite would have helped if none was used from the "factory".
3 days of poking at it might had an effect on it....
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I agree fully. NOT a working lock....
It opens with a key therefore it's a functional lock.
Making it stiff enough to be impossible to open with a pick due to the torsion required is a legitimate way of defeating an attack, IMO.
those Allen grub screws u took out holding the pins in. do u know where a man could buy some of those I use them alot in my vape gear...I've bought carbon steel one m2.5x3mm and m3x3mm but would like some better ones that don't strip so easy
Home Depot. Fastner aisle.
do u know the proper term or name for them
Allen plug. Just look at the pictures on the trays in the fastner aisle.
I gotta say it again. as much finesse you have, and touch when picking a lock to make it look so easy, you sure bugger it all up when gutting it hahah, quite comical actually. Fumble fingers, but hey, it makes Bill... well Bill hehehe. I'm not sure anyone could pick that crazy thing by the way...just stupid crazy pinned...
Lol he got you with those side millings again lmfao... Good thing I don't freqent the lock lab... There'd probably be a few hole disguising posters on the walls haha .... So frustrating
Is it possible he may have machined it in a way that the thickness tapered that's why it became difficult
Well I hope you guys (including Bill and LPL) are happy. I just dropped almost $100 on my first kit and some practice locks from Dangerfield Praxis. You know, I had a perfectly fine life. I did not need to develop an addiction. But none of you could stop posting your videos and your comments, and now I am lost.
I am REALLY happy because it means that I am not the ONLY sucker out here!😂 I have so MUCH stuff that I bought, used once, then stashed away in a drawer...
I don’t think he would have gotten it anyway because all the parts were so tight in there and the core itself barely turned I don’t think he would have been able to get proper feedback on the pins. They prob would have gotten stuck
Nothing is cooperating with you today Bill! I'm glad it was only locksport and not bomb diffusing!
No disrespect implied at all, but that’s a cap retaining pin, the tailpiece is missing.Love your videos, you have my utmost respect.
I feel your pain bill ,I've been picking on a loto lock since may and still can't get more than a small false set LOL
I got a shop to run, and a Subaru Ignition lock on the bench, waiting for me. I'll never get my shop in order if I keep watching this stuff.
what a lock bill amazing in every way xxxxxxxxxxxxxxerlent pins in it well made well done I no u didn't pick it but 3 days is a long time ide like to try and pick it my self any way cool lock and better luck nextime thanks stiglocks..r..
Wonder who had the name first.. hahaha great video bill.. good job FarmerFreak
Wow that lock was nasty! He should go into building commercial locks for sure! Excellent video.
Here’s a really dumb question. If a manufacture develops a patterned mechanism and they file the patent wouldn’t that expose the vulnerabilities?
Peter King This invokes a fundamental security principle: Security should work if the attacker knows everything except the key. Now in practice, secret traps do work against those who don't know, but that won't last long with mass produced locks as someone will get one and take it apart.
John Francis Doe Agreed. Security through obscurity is not really security.
cool to see ppl use me two piece key pin design... good job
As tight as that was you can’t really fault yourself, I believe you could have picked it otherwise
I call cheating... You could never pick it without something stronger than your tension wrench... Hell, you would need a torque wrench...
The locking ball is the problem on the bottom... Too tight... You should have loosened the screw on the bottom and tried again...
That was my thought originally. But he took out the bottom and side pins - they core still would not turn using the key.
The best lock to buy is the one that functions but makes all pickers give up even after having a thorough understanding of how it works and yet everyone can afford.
until you lose the key and need a locksmith lol.
FarmerFreak must be a Freakin machinist! Outstanding trickery & build!🍺✌
if you have to have a pipe wrench on the key to turn it, no way could you pick it.
this lock was a fail, regardless of time spent to make it.. should have fixed the functionality of it
you can see the galling in the bible from the ball bearing, Bill never turned the core.
did they patent the lock idea?
what are those screwdrivers called the ones u are using to take apart the lock
Julio Ruiz . Wera Kraftform micro I think.
Robert Harding Looked like Torx screwdrivers, the ones with star-shaped tips.
As a locksmith, I would have drilled it out and replaced it, if I ran across that in the field.
Their is no way someone could pick that, you would need a tension tool as this as the key. Cant hardly turn it with even the key. I would call that challenge lock way too overdone.
God damn Bill, holy shit. So what're you doin' for Thanksgiving?
Were can I get that flashlight?
I would say you weren't whipped there, Bill. Key wasn't working well enough to call it a fair fight.
I am really not impressed. I feel bad that Bill lost 3 days trying to pick this, when with the sheer amount of force required to rotate the keyway was beyond what he ever could have been expected to exert using even his most rigid and least flexible tools. Trying to pick a lock that stiff seems like more of an effort in futility than a "challenge", and stuff like this is, I imagine, why he stopped the challenge lock series altogether.
You got to be a very patient man! :)
How could u expect to pick a lock that barely works with a key I don’t know about this one
that's what's so genius about it.
Imagine if you are running away from a killer and trying to open your front door
Seems kinda cheap to me man. If the key hardly works can it be considered a legitimate challenge. Imho a quality challenge would work as intended without having to fuss with the key so much. It's like saying you couldn't start you car because the brick you tossed at the refrigerator broke the window on your gas chamber.
The lock didnt work properly, so it was not a good challenge.
Wow
An amazing amount of effort from both you and the maker.
Great video
I think this is a form of religion. I am now saved. Nasty bucket represents hell. I have two ugly locks in my nasty bucket. Cheap stuff less than 8 dollars. Both have keys and work just fine. I hate them. Remember Nietsche: "When you stare into the nasty bucket..."
Really nice looking quality on that acrylic/plastic pinning tray.
Must of used the ant-man suit to make this lock lol
Best intros on UA-cam
Loud intros
If Bill really was an EOD he had to have been a damn good one with shaky hands and butterfingers like that.
you need a beater bowl
I don't recommend keys for this class of lock, next time try dynamite 😉
Thanks Bill
Works hardly at all. I think Bills being generous
the openings are so intense...
Damn. He could sell these kinda locks to the FBI.
love the birds its so soothing watching your vids
Why does Google want me to watch this?
That lock is positively devilish.
i thought 3'rd time is a charm not a curse XD
This is not a functioning lock, maybe with some tweaking with tolerances it would be great. This is far from great. Even if you were able to pick it, it would have bent the living hell out of your picks and possibly snapped tension rods. So no not a whipped video bill chalk it up as maker error and put it in that category! Great videos!!
You got this guys email /phone maybe I need a new lock smith
That's not whipped if it's way too tight
Your focus needs more focus.
its all fun and games till they break a key off in it????
Bill, have you tried my lock? I sent it 2 years ago.
He promptly threw it away lol. He opened my lock with ease and then destroyed it to show me that it was an easy lock. Good times.
BowHunter77 I think Bill got defeated by my first lock, he can't handle it that's why he ignores me. Hehe