I basically need knobs and such to turn. I never got on with menu diving, but when now, late-50s, eyes start to struggle, and fiddling with menus means glasses on, glasses off. It just robs all the joy out of things. Younger folks here might laugh at grandad in the corner, but age will catch up with you in the end. (At least, its better than the alternative).
Your comment has always been my opinion, for the last 30 years almost, except for the glasses part. I was never been happy with how modelers sounded, and then all the menus and presets removed something from the experience of playing electric guitar that I needed I understand the convenience of an adequate all in one for a busy guitarist who plays a wide variety of music, but personally I enjoy having everything available to adjust in real time.
it is funny that you say that because that is exactly why I use a modeler. It is so much easier for my 50 year old eyes to see the screen on my Helix than to see the small printed text on my pedals. Often times the text is obfuscated by the knobs themselves.
@@daverokita7028 Well, i know what all the controls are for, so I’m not reading their labels either. I’ve also switched out the knobs on one pedal, because the “pointer” was hard to see.
@70, w/old heavy stuff, had to update. Using the tmp just for sheer processing power & multi connections... agonized over the choices. Do wish for a variable pedal (like an ernie ball) to a seamless change of the over drive. Have no clue as to design, just like the idea. The change in switching presets breaks the flow. 🤔 ty jc, peace.
@@Loader7272 The Tone Master Pro has sockets for 2 expression pedals. I never used one, but pretty sure you could use an expression pedal to adjust one or more of the controls on an overdrive. I have a couple of Strymon pedals that can do it. I use a Mission Engineering expression pedal that built like a tank and operates very smoothly (was not cheap, though).
My buddy just bought a Lightspeed and a Kilt overdrive which he runs into his Helix. I followed his thinking and dug up a Boss OS-2 and put it into my Boss GX100. We're both so happy right now. Ready for church playing on Sunday🙏.
Hey John I just started using pedals with my HX stomp XL and I find the experience really effective. As you have said in the video, the workflow with pedals allows me to choose my gain stage at any point, no matter on which snapshot I am at. All my gigs became so simple. And dsp friendly of course 😂
So I have a new question for you: I'm thinking of switching to a small size amp modeller - since the stomp is mainly an amp at the moment, so maybe I will take something smaller... Do you have a recommendation - pod express or tonex? Tonex seems more professional -is that so?
I keep pedals because of slots and DSP space. The MOOD and the microcosm require FX returns if I’m using the amp modeler, and if I split the amp and cab then I’m left with 4 slots on the stomp. I usually choose not to take those up with a drive. And to John’s point, there’s no BD-2 😂
I started using drive pedals in front of an FM3. They’re easy to tweak on stage and sound more organic to my ear. I also run a cloudburst through the effects loop for great verbs, plus it frees up a ton of CPU.
I love combining digital and analog. The stomp takes pedals well and I prefer using an external drive to create something unique or maybe something that isn't available in the helix.
Great video. I've built a board around my FM3 with delay and verb in the FX loop while having a drive pedal into the front and it has served me really well in saving on DSP. I also like having the adjustability on gigs with diferent music situations and noticed the sound of my OD pedals specifically can add some warmth and feel to make the modeler experience more like it tube counterparts.
@@friedrudibega6384a combination: mono FX loop for delay, drive/octave in front of. Works great and It gives me the chance to use DSP for other interesting combinations. But i don't know of i would do the same with a Helix
Honestly, I've never had a modeller with really decent effects across the board, they're usually good at one thing and awful at another on the effects front - I've had Kemper, Fractal, Helix etc, the convenience of having everything built in is nice, but all of them fell really short on the quality of the effects in one way or other. A selection of pedals with a modeller/profiler (Currently ToneX and no intention of changing!) handling the base amp tones gets me exactly what I want to hear. I am 100% for the digital guitar revolution, but I've still not heard really top notch digital drives, fuzzes, flangers or phasers. Also, it's just really easy to reach down and tweak things live rather than having to delve into menus and presets.
Same for me. But for me the tough ones are spring reverb, drives, and analog delays. The spring reverb just has to be spot on with drip for an authentic surf sound and no modeler out there does that very well. For the drives and the analog delays, I can get by with what are in modelers but they just don’t sound quite as good as some of my pedals. Also, unless you buy a modeler with an expression pedal, you are out of luck for wah and other effects. But if you do buy one with an expression pedal then you have as big a footprint as you would have by bringing a big pedal board so no net improvement. The things that are gigantic improvements with modelers is ease of set-up, better switching and coordination of effects, no need for complicated daisy-chain cabling, no need for an expensive power supply, no need for the actual physical pedal board, all of which add to expense and potential points of failure. Right now I am debating getting the big Tonex pedal, the Helix Stomp XL, or the Helix LT. I prefer the Tonex amp profiles and my pedals' sounds to Helix, but not the hassle. I am hoping that Amplitube comes out with a combined Tonex amp and effects profiler at some point.
Seems like this question answers itself, adding pedals to a all in one takes some load off the dsp which leaves more creative room open. The only thing my modeler is doing is eq and wet effects everything else is pedals going into it
I only have the Fender GTX100 modeling amp, and only just starting to use & experiment with different pedal FX. It's extremely convenient and can more than meet my beginner requirements at this stage (I only practice at home & jam with a friend once a week) but your point about missing pedals (Blues Driver & Bluesbreaker is what's tempting to get those seperately at some point). Another great & thought provoking (not to mention GAS inducing) video, thanks John!
Reckon this logic has always been true. More than a decade ago, I favoured dirt from a pedal rather than the built in approximations of the TC Voicelive 3. Could have been due to the silent pit requirement perhaps? Certainly felt a good deal closer to the real thing and by extension salvaged the last drop of inspiration with which to perform. Lovely think point, John. Thanks for sharing.
I’m personally a fan of combining both analog with digital pedals. My setup with particularly modeling amps, external drives, I also use analog compressor in front of drives then chorus, delay, reverb in the fx loop of the stomp post amp before external effects.
One of my main goals for using a modeler is to simplify my life (smaller, lighter pedalboard, and total control over volume). With that in mind, my approach is to find a modeler that has amps and drives that are pleasing to me (I am less picky about reverbs/delays/modulations). The HX Stomp (my main rig) does that for me (and I like the reverbs/delays/modulations just fine). The Ampero Mini (my backup and grab and go) has amps I enjoy, but on the drive side, a little less so (although they recently added a Timmy that is nice). If the amps and drives are "good enough", I dial in my tone using them.
I have the mini too and my issue with the drives is that the moment you add one, it introduces a lot of noise vs when I add an analog version of the pedal. So I just added my drives in front :)
I use an Eleven Rack and a regular pedal board, and that works for me. I prefer pedals as that eliminates the need for programming and endless tweaking of any type of multi effects unit; I have had many and always went back to pedals. The SanAmp GT2 is actually an amp modeler as well as a drive pedal and sounds fabulous even though it's old.
The only pedal I've used live with my Zoom G3n is an EHX B9 and that was to accompany the congregation singing Christmas carols. I've bought a bunch of pedals to play around with at home and they are a lot of fun but a modeller is very convenient playing out.
My biggest selling point when it comes to modelers is convenience. Pedals are a pain in the butt. When I look at a big pedalboard with a pile of cables I see multiple points where things can go wrong. Dealing with noise from power. And most pedalboards are bigger than even a full size Helix. When I run a traditional rig, I use as few pedals as possible. Just enough to get the job done. So when you start adding things to a modeler: pedals, power amps, traditional guitar cabs; it takes away from the convenience factor. The benefits just don't add up enough to deal with the hassle of adding pedals to a modeler. The audience isn't going to know or care if you use your favorite blues driver or not. Just my opinion. But if you like it, by all means use pedals.
Depends on the modeler and what you're trying to accomplish. I usually favor the full standalones like the Helix or AX3 but I like my GT1000core as a simple effects only pedal (similar to how you'd use a stomp). There, it can be nice to have a few other compliments and still on a mini board.
Besides my EQ pedals, I only use my HX-Effects these days. I found most of the effects I need are in there, except an 8x parallel modulated delay like the Yamaha MagicStomp / UDStomp. I use my HX-FX with my Catalyst 100 in 4CM, where the HX-FX changes amp models in the amp like an amp switcher; and I have a HX-FX footswitch mapped to the Catalyst boost; other than that I don't use any of the effects in the Catalyst, just the HX-Effects. Lightweight, versatile rig.
Love my pedal pile but, since making the switch to Helix, I've not played a single one of them. Everything I want, need, use, is modeled in my floorboard. It's been two years now. I really should take the time to post them up for sale.
I’m with you. Unless you’ve got some kind of wild, one off effect that your modeler won’t do, it seems a bit silly to have a massive all in one unit like the helix and then attach more pedals to it.
I use helix native live with unlimited dsp, and don’t need pedals, and don’t own any. There are a bunch of drives in the Helix that I absolutely love to play and can’t get enough of.
It's something I've been thinking about too. I'm torn between a HX Stomp and a FM3. I have a couple of drive pedals and figured I could just use those as boosts or lead tones to help free up the need for making more scenes or snapshots, but the thought of a single box is appealing.
So interesting to hear the perspective of a professional & appreciate you sharing @johnnathancordy It would seem the conversation is about combinations of tech, as opposed to one Vs the other 🤔
I have the Wampler Pantheon dual drive pedal. It's a very versatile overdrive. It's sounds awesome with my Boss GX100. The drives in the GX100 are great on their own, but I like having the knobs at my feet.
I’m using an FM3 & pedals on the show We Will Rock You atm. Works perfectly. Using pedals free up all 8 scenes for other stuff and it’s quick and easy to change sounds on the pedals. Like you said, if certain pedals aren’t in the modeller then use the real thing (I’m using a dude pedal on the show).
Not pointless at all. It’s horses for courses. Some things pedals do better than multi effects. You pointed out Dimension and Fuzz and if you are using them the pedals are a must. Line 6 effects models are generally underwhelming in my view so for my back up rig with an HX stomp I am using a single drive pedal that is super flexible and a Zoia in the fx loop for most effects. My main rig though is just an Axe Fx as the effects are top notch and only drive I use is a model of an Sd1, which I really like, otherwise dirt comes from the amp sims With an EQ where necessary. I virtually never feel the need to make adjustments during a gig once a global eq is set up so this works for me.
Use whatever you feel is going to be effective. I do think guitarists wildly overestimate how much of a difference these things make to the audience experience, especially live. I also think you have to look at what your tools were built for. Hx stomp works great as a fly rig for anyone who doesn’t need a lot of processing. Its form factor and processing limits clearly lend itself to supplementing an existing board though. Love your drives but have no modulation pedals? Stomp works. Love your pedal board but can’t use a live amp at this venue? Stomp works. If you’re bringing your full sized helix to a live gig and plugging a bunch of other stuff into it while running 4 cable method into a tube amp, you may need to reevaluate your life choices.
@Newnodrogbob "If you’re bringing your full sized helix to a live gig and plugging a bunch of other stuff into it while running 4 cable method into a tube amp, you may need to reevaluate your life choices." - Hahaha That killed me. Too true.
I use chorus, delay, and reverb pedals with the Line 6 Catalyst 100 at home. Boss RE-202 Space Echo, Boss DD-7 digital delay, UA Evermore reverb, TC Electronic SCF Gold chorus/flanger, etc.
There are so many really cool, really unique pedals out there today...and you will not find many of those sounds on any modeler so depending on what you like, what you want to use or are inspired by, pedals still play a huge role. For me personally although they are a bigger bang for your buck, still modelers have way more features that I will never use so pedals just might be the way for me to go.
it bears mentioning, On the stomp if you use a loop block before any high gain block the noise floor will Make you grumpy. Regardless, adding pedals is like adding problems that the unit solved. So if there’s an equivalent model, The only purpose is dogma. Most important lesson from modelers for me, You adjust to most nuanced differences within minutes, If you can’t make it work with modern modeler, It is totally you.
I had to laugh... The three pedals I always have in front of the Helix / HX Stomp XL are: Browne Amplification Carbon X (Blues Breaker), Boss BD-2w (Blues Driver), and Boss OD-3. Most of the time I will add a JAM Rattler. I used to also keep an original Zen Drive, an OCD, and a DS-1w on the board, but learned over time to dial in the HX versions properly - and they are close enough. I do not mind menu diving, if it is intuitive and quick. Doing adjustments on the Line 6.products (or even the Hotone stuff) is not harder than physical knobs. With devices that are factually unusable without computer software (Fractal, Kemper), I would use more pedals.
I don't have a modeller yet but I think it makes sense to add pedals when they do things the modeller can't outside of the bread and butter stuff and depending on the genre so things like CBA's Gen loss, Mood, Drolo, microcosm etc. I think can add a lot to a modeller. I'm hoping to eventually combine both. Would be amazing if they were able to incorporate some kind of add-ons that cover this - the processing must be there on the modellers to do a lot more creative effects so maybe just a matter of time...
My only issues with modeling is menus. Like the boss GT-1 is easy to navigate kinda quick to make adjustments. Some of these others not so much. My other issue is I hate carrying huge gear around so I hate pedals but they’re easy to make adjustments on the fly. I think the Boss ME series does a good job of blending the 2 worlds.
I use a kemper as my main amp and still have a full pedalboard, I only use the reverb from the kemper effects. I just prefer having a full board and the interactivity of leaning down to change a setting on the fly. Plus there's something a bit cathartic to arranging your pedalboard and switching it up every now and again. Tried to replace it a while ago with a HX effects but it didn't have the same affect on me.
I know what sounds i can get from my favourite pedals without any menu scrolling. Suits me in front of an amp or my Strymon Iridium. I can't see me ever wanting a modeller - too many options I'll never use
Personally I think that any 'analogue' device, wether its a pedal, a real cab etc added to a digital signal chain like a modeller or plugin within a DAW does in fact help to get a step closer back to that all analogue sound we all loved in the past. A step closer....
It’s always going to be how you feel about them, if you’ve never used them, do you need them? I’ve used a hybrid setup for a few years where I like certain pedals in the loop of the helix because the helix didn’t quite get the sound quite right yet (old updates)
What about stacking modelers instead? Modelers are just insanely more cost effective, so by combining two, and using the FX loop, that would give you tons more of options. Although, if you just need that 1 drive ... But anyhow, whatever brand you're in now, you'd probably gain tons of new options with a 2nd modeler, though you'd have to learn to use 2 different units...
I thought there would be adequate equivalents in my GX-100 for my Origins Cali76 compressor and my Electro Harmonix Pitch Fork; but alas, no. So, those pedals are still in line with my modeler.
Well…. Not every modeller takes pedal well. In my experience with axefx, kemper, line 6 and boss. The boss unit is still the best at this. Still it had its own quirk.
In the most absolute respectful sense - is this even a discussion? They're all just tools to make sounds at the end of the day. Maybe your modeler has all the sounds you want. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe you find a pedal that is nowhere to be found in any modeler. Maybe you found your golden grail pedal and you'll never need to even buy a modeler. Maybe you'll never be able to afford a modeler. Maybe your only pedal is a Behringer and you're happy. There are so many variables - and to act as though a singular musical tool makes all others obsolete is just so short-sighted and naive. And to make up these imaginary rules that you can't combine these tools together is such a wild concept, I can't fathom someone living within those confines. There's always going to be analogue purists, there's always going to be digital embracers. There's always going to be someone who only plugs directly into an amp and there's always someone who can't fathom playing without pedals. There's always going to be someone who can only afford a used DS-1 and there's always going to be someone who has more guitars than they'll ever play. The electric piano didn't kill the grand piano. The electric guitar didn't kill the acoustic guitar. Tools are tools, and people are people - and the world will keep spinning.
Having been a long time user of Boss multi fx units, some time ago, I felt I needed a pedalboard, cos that's what real guitarists use, right?? I traded my Boss GT100 and spent £2500 putting together the best pedal board I could afford, with a Boss ES8 switching unit built in. Weighed a ton, and every time I used it, I was worried that one of the pedals or cables would pack up. It always seemed noisy compared to multi fx units, so I traded it all in (losing a fortune) for a Helix floor unit. I'm reasonably happy with it, although I haven't gigged with it yet, and I'm still not sure I have it configured in the best way for the way I use it (straight into the front of an amp), but I no longer have that fear of something failing. One pedal I didn't get rid of is the Gregor Hilden Okko Diablo overdrive, as I love the sound he gets out of it, and I'm now thinking of building another, smaller, board around that pedal
@@ianbarnes1406 That fail you speak of is why so many professionals turn away from pedals and patch cables and power supplies when playing live. It's a real thing. Enjoy the tones.
I have a bit of fomo and a "videogame completionist" mindset when It comes to gear. I love the digital options but i can't help but feel like there's always a ferature I'm ignoring or leaving on the table. Delegating some functions to simpler more intuitive units feels like a "smart compromise" rather then one you're too dumb not to make.
In my advancing age I find the differences between various drive pedals to be greatly overblown. I keep a few around for using with amps and with my Tonex but I couldn't be bothered with the HX Stomp.
imo my overdrive pedals sound a bit warmer smoothr with pedals.i have some pedals that helix has and once again to me it just sounds a but better nothing wrong with helix nut i like my pedals better.if the helix had a tube preamp selection like two nothes or amped 1 it might make it sound warmer.I turn on the tube selection on amp one
So Fractal, for example, allegedly model the behaviour of every resister and transistor etc. and do the clever mathematical waveform analysis, but a classic Marshall Supafuzz or Solasound Tone Bender, which are a few resistors, transistors and capacitors can't be modelled convincingly. Food for thought, no?
I just got a digitech drop which I wouldn't be able to replicate on my helix. I'm already running a mix of two high gain amps plus effects, so no DSP left
pedals are made to work with tube amps and speakers not with computers .life is pointless if you use a modeler :you basically work in the computing industry working your way by endless trial and error to someone else's tone .guitar players these days... with their home studios with their tiny ass plastic monitors know nothing about tone or inspiration they can might as well play on some control pad .guitars are heavy they go out of tune and expensive...
DSP is another good reason to add external pedals, especially when using the HX Stomp.
I basically need knobs and such to turn. I never got on with menu diving, but when now, late-50s, eyes start to struggle, and fiddling with menus means glasses on, glasses off. It just robs all the joy out of things. Younger folks here might laugh at grandad in the corner, but age will catch up with you in the end. (At least, its better than the alternative).
Your comment has always been my opinion, for the last 30 years almost, except for the glasses part. I was never been happy with how modelers sounded, and then all the menus and presets removed something from the experience of playing electric guitar that I needed
I understand the convenience of an adequate all in one for a busy guitarist who plays a wide variety of music, but personally I enjoy having everything available to adjust in real time.
it is funny that you say that because that is exactly why I use a modeler. It is so much easier for my 50 year old eyes to see the screen on my Helix than to see the small printed text on my pedals. Often times the text is obfuscated by the knobs themselves.
@@daverokita7028 Well, i know what all the controls are for, so I’m not reading their labels either. I’ve also switched out the knobs on one pedal, because the “pointer” was hard to see.
@70, w/old heavy stuff, had to update. Using the tmp just for sheer processing power & multi connections... agonized over the choices. Do wish for a variable pedal (like an ernie ball) to a seamless change of the over drive.
Have no clue as to design, just like the idea. The change in switching presets breaks the flow. 🤔
ty jc, peace.
@@Loader7272 The Tone Master Pro has sockets for 2 expression pedals. I never used one, but pretty sure you could use an expression pedal to adjust one or more of the controls on an overdrive. I have a couple of Strymon pedals that can do it. I use a Mission Engineering expression pedal that built like a tank and operates very smoothly (was not cheap, though).
My buddy just bought a Lightspeed and a Kilt overdrive which he runs into his Helix. I followed his thinking and dug up a Boss OS-2 and put it into my Boss GX100. We're both so happy right now. Ready for church playing on Sunday🙏.
Hey John I just started using pedals with my HX stomp XL and I find the experience really effective.
As you have said in the video, the workflow with pedals allows me to choose my gain stage at any point, no matter on which snapshot I am at.
All my gigs became so simple.
And dsp friendly of course 😂
So I have a new question for you:
I'm thinking of switching to a small size amp modeller - since the stomp is mainly an amp at the moment, so maybe I will take something smaller... Do you have a recommendation - pod express or tonex? Tonex seems more professional -is that so?
I keep pedals because of slots and DSP space. The MOOD and the microcosm require FX returns if I’m using the amp modeler, and if I split the amp and cab then I’m left with 4 slots on the stomp. I usually choose not to take those up with a drive. And to John’s point, there’s no BD-2 😂
I’m about to switch from modelling to pedals just because I miss having the gear and actually turning knobs plus I think they sound better.
I have to say I am loving that Zen Drive sound 👍
I started using drive pedals in front of an FM3. They’re easy to tweak on stage and sound more organic to my ear. I also run a cloudburst through the effects loop for great verbs, plus it frees up a ton of CPU.
I love combining digital and analog. The stomp takes pedals well and I prefer using an external drive to create something unique or maybe something that isn't available in the helix.
I agree!
Great video. I've built a board around my FM3 with delay and verb in the FX loop while having a drive pedal into the front and it has served me really well in saving on DSP. I also like having the adjustability on gigs with diferent music situations and noticed the sound of my OD pedals specifically can add some warmth and feel to make the modeler experience more like it tube counterparts.
I use both: pedals for distortion/drive/fuzz, octave fx and delays. Rest is from hx stomp xl. But for rehearsals the stomp alone works fine.
Are you using the effects loop, running in front, or a combination?
@@friedrudibega6384 delay on FX loop (mono) and drive/octave in front
@@friedrudibega6384a combination: mono FX loop for delay, drive/octave in front of. Works great and It gives me the chance to use DSP for other interesting combinations. But i don't know of i would do the same with a Helix
I always like something in front of my Kemper. A drive pedal or even a compressor just makes me feel better.
Honestly, I've never had a modeller with really decent effects across the board, they're usually good at one thing and awful at another on the effects front - I've had Kemper, Fractal, Helix etc, the convenience of having everything built in is nice, but all of them fell really short on the quality of the effects in one way or other. A selection of pedals with a modeller/profiler (Currently ToneX and no intention of changing!) handling the base amp tones gets me exactly what I want to hear. I am 100% for the digital guitar revolution, but I've still not heard really top notch digital drives, fuzzes, flangers or phasers. Also, it's just really easy to reach down and tweak things live rather than having to delve into menus and presets.
Same for me. But for me the tough ones are spring reverb, drives, and analog delays. The spring reverb just has to be spot on with drip for an authentic surf sound and no modeler out there does that very well. For the drives and the analog delays, I can get by with what are in modelers but they just don’t sound quite as good as some of my pedals. Also, unless you buy a modeler with an expression pedal, you are out of luck for wah and other effects. But if you do buy one with an expression pedal then you have as big a footprint as you would have by bringing a big pedal board so no net improvement. The things that are gigantic improvements with modelers is ease of set-up, better switching and coordination of effects, no need for complicated daisy-chain cabling, no need for an expensive power supply, no need for the actual physical pedal board, all of which add to expense and potential points of failure. Right now I am debating getting the big Tonex pedal, the Helix Stomp XL, or the Helix LT. I prefer the Tonex amp profiles and my pedals' sounds to Helix, but not the hassle. I am hoping that Amplitube comes out with a combined Tonex amp and effects profiler at some point.
Seems like this question answers itself, adding pedals to a all in one takes some load off the dsp which leaves more creative room open. The only thing my modeler is doing is eq and wet effects everything else is pedals going into it
I only have the Fender GTX100 modeling amp, and only just starting to use & experiment with different pedal FX. It's extremely convenient and can more than meet my beginner requirements at this stage (I only practice at home & jam with a friend once a week) but your point about missing pedals (Blues Driver & Bluesbreaker is what's tempting to get those seperately at some point). Another great & thought provoking (not to mention GAS inducing) video, thanks John!
Reckon this logic has always been true.
More than a decade ago, I favoured dirt from a pedal rather than the built in approximations of the TC Voicelive 3.
Could have been due to the silent pit requirement perhaps?
Certainly felt a good deal closer to the real thing and by extension salvaged the last drop of inspiration with which to perform.
Lovely think point, John. Thanks for sharing.
I’m personally a fan of combining both analog with digital pedals. My setup with particularly modeling
amps, external drives, I also use analog compressor in front of drives then chorus, delay, reverb in the fx loop of the stomp post amp before external effects.
One of my main goals for using a modeler is to simplify my life (smaller, lighter pedalboard, and total control over volume). With that in mind, my approach is to find a modeler that has amps and drives that are pleasing to me (I am less picky about reverbs/delays/modulations). The HX Stomp (my main rig) does that for me (and I like the reverbs/delays/modulations just fine). The Ampero Mini (my backup and grab and go) has amps I enjoy, but on the drive side, a little less so (although they recently added a Timmy that is nice). If the amps and drives are "good enough", I dial in my tone using them.
I have the mini too and my issue with the drives is that the moment you add one, it introduces a lot of noise vs when I add an analog version of the pedal. So I just added my drives in front :)
I use an Eleven Rack and a regular pedal board, and that works for me. I prefer pedals as that eliminates the need for programming and endless tweaking of any type of multi effects unit; I have had many and always went back to pedals. The SanAmp GT2 is actually an amp modeler as well as a drive pedal and sounds fabulous even though it's old.
The only pedal I've used live with my Zoom G3n is an EHX B9 and that was to accompany the congregation singing Christmas carols.
I've bought a bunch of pedals to play around with at home and they are a lot of fun but a modeller is very convenient playing out.
My biggest selling point when it comes to modelers is convenience. Pedals are a pain in the butt. When I look at a big pedalboard with a pile of cables I see multiple points where things can go wrong. Dealing with noise from power. And most pedalboards are bigger than even a full size Helix. When I run a traditional rig, I use as few pedals as possible. Just enough to get the job done. So when you start adding things to a modeler: pedals, power amps, traditional guitar cabs; it takes away from the convenience factor. The benefits just don't add up enough to deal with the hassle of adding pedals to a modeler. The audience isn't going to know or care if you use your favorite blues driver or not. Just my opinion. But if you like it, by all means use pedals.
Depends on the modeler and what you're trying to accomplish. I usually favor the full standalones like the Helix or AX3 but I like my GT1000core as a simple effects only pedal (similar to how you'd use a stomp). There, it can be nice to have a few other compliments and still on a mini board.
I just got the Rattler bcs of your video you did, thank you I love it
That depends on the modeler!
Besides my EQ pedals, I only use my HX-Effects these days. I found most of the effects I need are in there, except an 8x parallel modulated delay like the Yamaha MagicStomp / UDStomp.
I use my HX-FX with my Catalyst 100 in 4CM, where the HX-FX changes amp models in the amp like an amp switcher; and I have a HX-FX footswitch mapped to the Catalyst boost; other than that I don't use any of the effects in the Catalyst, just the HX-Effects. Lightweight, versatile rig.
Love my pedal pile but, since making the switch to Helix, I've not played a single one of them. Everything I want, need, use, is modeled in my floorboard. It's been two years now. I really should take the time to post them up for sale.
I’m with you. Unless you’ve got some kind of wild, one off effect that your modeler won’t do, it seems a bit silly to have a massive all in one unit like the helix and then attach more pedals to it.
I use helix native live with unlimited dsp, and don’t need pedals, and don’t own any. There are a bunch of drives in the Helix that I absolutely love to play and can’t get enough of.
What pedals do you have that Helix can’t recreate or reuse? Keep those.
It's something I've been thinking about too. I'm torn between a HX Stomp and a FM3. I have a couple of drive pedals and figured I could just use those as boosts or lead tones to help free up the need for making more scenes or snapshots, but the thought of a single box is appealing.
So interesting to hear the perspective of a professional & appreciate you sharing @johnnathancordy It would seem the conversation is about combinations of tech, as opposed to one Vs the other 🤔
I have the Wampler Pantheon dual drive pedal. It's a very versatile overdrive. It's sounds awesome with my Boss GX100. The drives in the GX100 are great on their own, but I like having the knobs at my feet.
I’m using an FM3 & pedals on the show We Will Rock You atm. Works perfectly. Using pedals free up all 8 scenes for other stuff and it’s quick and easy to change sounds on the pedals. Like you said, if certain pedals aren’t in the modeller then use the real thing (I’m using a dude pedal on the show).
Hey Nick. Good to see you here!
Not pointless at all. It’s horses for courses. Some things pedals do better than multi effects. You pointed out Dimension and Fuzz and if you are using them the pedals are a must. Line 6 effects models are generally underwhelming in my view so for my back up rig with an HX stomp I am using a single drive pedal that is super flexible and a Zoia in the fx loop for most effects. My main rig though is just an Axe Fx as the effects are top notch and only drive I use is a model of an Sd1, which I really like, otherwise dirt comes from the amp sims With an EQ where necessary. I virtually never feel the need to make adjustments during a gig once a global eq is set up so this works for me.
Use whatever you feel is going to be effective. I do think guitarists wildly overestimate how much of a difference these things make to the audience experience, especially live.
I also think you have to look at what your tools were built for. Hx stomp works great as a fly rig for anyone who doesn’t need a lot of processing. Its form factor and processing limits clearly lend itself to supplementing an existing board though.
Love your drives but have no modulation pedals? Stomp works. Love your pedal board but can’t use a live amp at this venue? Stomp works. If you’re bringing your full sized helix to a live gig and plugging a bunch of other stuff into it while running 4 cable method into a tube amp, you may need to reevaluate your life choices.
@Newnodrogbob "If you’re bringing your full sized helix to a live gig and plugging a bunch of other stuff into it while running 4 cable method into a tube amp, you may need to reevaluate your life choices." - Hahaha That killed me. Too true.
I've a Gearbox into a Tonex with a capture of a Suhr SL67. It was glorious! Technically not a modeler, but still incredible results.
I use chorus, delay, and reverb pedals with the Line 6 Catalyst 100 at home. Boss RE-202 Space Echo, Boss DD-7 digital delay, UA Evermore reverb, TC Electronic SCF Gold chorus/flanger, etc.
There are so many really cool, really unique pedals out there today...and you will not find many of those sounds on any modeler so depending on what you like, what you want to use or are inspired by, pedals still play a huge role. For me personally although they are a bigger bang for your buck, still modelers have way more features that I will never use so pedals just might be the way for me to go.
Gosh, there’s no wonder I never use the chorus in the helix 😂. This makes me want the boss pedal now.
it bears mentioning,
On the stomp if you use a loop block before any high gain block the noise floor will
Make you grumpy.
Regardless,
adding pedals is
like adding problems that the unit solved.
So if there’s an equivalent
model,
The only purpose is dogma.
Most important lesson from modelers for me,
You adjust to most nuanced differences within minutes,
If you can’t make it work with modern modeler,
It is totally you.
I had to laugh... The three pedals I always have in front of the Helix / HX Stomp XL are: Browne Amplification Carbon X (Blues Breaker), Boss BD-2w (Blues Driver), and Boss OD-3. Most of the time I will add a JAM Rattler. I used to also keep an original Zen Drive, an OCD, and a DS-1w on the board, but learned over time to dial in the HX versions properly - and they are close enough. I do not mind menu diving, if it is intuitive and quick. Doing adjustments on the Line 6.products (or even the Hotone stuff) is not harder than physical knobs. With devices that are factually unusable without computer software (Fractal, Kemper), I would use more pedals.
If I was playing live then it would just be the Helix, but because I'm only playing in the studio, I mix both as nothing is repeated.
I don't have a modeller yet but I think it makes sense to add pedals when they do things the modeller can't outside of the bread and butter stuff and depending on the genre so things like CBA's Gen loss, Mood, Drolo, microcosm etc. I think can add a lot to a modeller. I'm hoping to eventually combine both. Would be amazing if they were able to incorporate some kind of add-ons that cover this - the processing must be there on the modellers to do a lot more creative effects so maybe just a matter of time...
My only issues with modeling is menus. Like the boss GT-1 is easy to navigate kinda quick to make adjustments. Some of these others not so much. My other issue is I hate carrying huge gear around so I hate pedals but they’re easy to make adjustments on the fly. I think the Boss ME series does a good job of blending the 2 worlds.
We need a BD2 in the Helix! Make it happen Line6 pleaaaase
I use a kemper as my main amp and still have a full pedalboard, I only use the reverb from the kemper effects. I just prefer having a full board and the interactivity of leaning down to change a setting on the fly. Plus there's something a bit cathartic to arranging your pedalboard and switching it up every now and again. Tried to replace it a while ago with a HX effects but it didn't have the same affect on me.
I know what sounds i can get from my favourite pedals without any menu scrolling. Suits me in front of an amp or my Strymon Iridium. I can't see me ever wanting a modeller - too many options I'll never use
Yes!
Personally I think that any 'analogue' device, wether its a pedal, a real cab etc added to a digital signal chain like a modeller or plugin within a DAW does in fact help to get a step closer back to that all analogue sound we all loved in the past. A step closer....
I have a nice practice board with plethora and pedal drives best of both
Yep
Are modelers useless when you play the trumpet?
It’s always going to be how you feel about them, if you’ve never used them, do you need them? I’ve used a hybrid setup for a few years where I like certain pedals in the loop of the helix because the helix didn’t quite get the sound quite right yet (old updates)
Overdrive/Distortion/Modulation pedals will come and go....My FUZZ Pedals are staying. Muahahahaha
Just wait till ai gets completely control of everything!!
What about stacking modelers instead? Modelers are just insanely more cost effective, so by combining two, and using the FX loop, that would give you tons more of options. Although, if you just need that 1 drive ... But anyhow, whatever brand you're in now, you'd probably gain tons of new options with a 2nd modeler, though you'd have to learn to use 2 different units...
GAS is a thing unfortunately Jon. Pedals keep updating.
I had the worst GAS until i got my FM9 last year.... managed to only buy 1 guitar since 😅
This is so true mate
Ergonomics, troubleshooting, order, on the fly experimenting, sound...
I wouldn’t want to sound like recorded music when playing live, which is what modelers do. I don’t play live though so mostly modeler for me haha
I thought there would be adequate equivalents in my GX-100 for my Origins Cali76 compressor and my Electro Harmonix Pitch Fork; but alas, no. So, those pedals are still in line with my modeler.
Do you go through the send and return of the effects loop or guitar➡️pedals➡️gx100?
A hybrid rig is the way to go. Been doing this for years. Guitar -> Pedals -> MacBook with special sauce guitar amps/cabs
pedals for the studio
Well…. Not every modeller takes pedal well.
In my experience with axefx, kemper, line 6 and boss.
The boss unit is still the best at this. Still it had its own quirk.
In the most absolute respectful sense - is this even a discussion?
They're all just tools to make sounds at the end of the day. Maybe your modeler has all the sounds you want. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe you find a pedal that is nowhere to be found in any modeler. Maybe you found your golden grail pedal and you'll never need to even buy a modeler. Maybe you'll never be able to afford a modeler. Maybe your only pedal is a Behringer and you're happy.
There are so many variables - and to act as though a singular musical tool makes all others obsolete is just so short-sighted and naive. And to make up these imaginary rules that you can't combine these tools together is such a wild concept, I can't fathom someone living within those confines.
There's always going to be analogue purists, there's always going to be digital embracers. There's always going to be someone who only plugs directly into an amp and there's always someone who can't fathom playing without pedals. There's always going to be someone who can only afford a used DS-1 and there's always going to be someone who has more guitars than they'll ever play.
The electric piano didn't kill the grand piano. The electric guitar didn't kill the acoustic guitar. Tools are tools, and people are people - and the world will keep spinning.
@johnnathancordy if you have a blacstar amped1 can you try some of your line 6 presets with the amp tube selection on.
Having been a long time user of Boss multi fx units, some time ago, I felt I needed a pedalboard, cos that's what real guitarists use, right?? I traded my Boss GT100 and spent £2500 putting together the best pedal board I could afford, with a Boss ES8 switching unit built in. Weighed a ton, and every time I used it, I was worried that one of the pedals or cables would pack up. It always seemed noisy compared to multi fx units, so I traded it all in (losing a fortune) for a Helix floor unit. I'm reasonably happy with it, although I haven't gigged with it yet, and I'm still not sure I have it configured in the best way for the way I use it (straight into the front of an amp), but I no longer have that fear of something failing. One pedal I didn't get rid of is the Gregor Hilden Okko Diablo overdrive, as I love the sound he gets out of it, and I'm now thinking of building another, smaller, board around that pedal
@@ianbarnes1406 That fail you speak of is why so many professionals turn away from pedals and patch cables and power supplies when playing live. It's a real thing. Enjoy the tones.
Mais non! The real question is : If you have pedals, why would you need a modeler?
First viewer. Love your content cordy. Love from southeast Asia
I have a bit of fomo and a "videogame completionist" mindset when It comes to gear.
I love the digital options but i can't help but feel like there's always a ferature I'm ignoring or leaving on the table. Delegating some functions to simpler more intuitive units feels like a "smart compromise" rather then one you're too dumb not to make.
In my advancing age I find the differences between various drive pedals to be greatly overblown. I keep a few around for using with amps and with my Tonex but I couldn't be bothered with the HX Stomp.
imo my overdrive pedals sound a bit warmer smoothr with pedals.i have some pedals that helix has and once again to me it just sounds a but better nothing wrong with helix nut i like my pedals better.if the helix had a tube preamp selection like two nothes or amped 1 it might make it sound warmer.I turn on the tube selection on amp one
So Fractal, for example, allegedly model the behaviour of every resister and transistor etc. and do the clever mathematical waveform analysis, but a classic Marshall Supafuzz or Solasound Tone Bender, which are a few resistors, transistors and capacitors can't be modelled convincingly. Food for thought, no?
It's also a way to save some DSP
I retired all my pedals, or they got glitchy/died and retired themselves. I keep them in a box just as a backup in case my Modeler goes down.
Yup since I started using a Modeler my pedals are just gathering dust.
Surely it depends on the pedal.
what if yer modeler breaks down?.....have a nice day!.....cheers!....Peace!
Also, DSP
I just got a digitech drop which I wouldn't be able to replicate on my helix. I'm already running a mix of two high gain amps plus effects, so no DSP left
pedals are made to work with tube amps and speakers not with computers .life is pointless if you use a modeler :you basically work in the computing industry working your way by endless trial and error to someone else's tone .guitar players these days... with their home studios with their tiny ass plastic monitors know nothing about tone or inspiration they can might as well play on some control pad .guitars are heavy they go out of tune and expensive...