If I may make a suggestion, you can do this without an iPad and without jumping back and forth between the ref mic channel and the main mix. Under the RTA screen, use the first encoder knob and rotate to select the 'Use RTA Source' option, and then use the last rotary knob and select your reference mic channel. This will use the ref mic as the RTA for EVERY EQ overlay on your board. That way, when you are adjusting your main mix, you are actually looking at the reference mic RTA instead of the main mix RTA. Whenever you are done, you can deselect the 'Use RTA source' if you want. It is nice to have on during a performance though, but if you are making changes to individual channels it becomes a little harder to use. That is where the 'Solo Priority' option can come in handy (same rotary knob as the 'use rta source' knob). If you solo a channel, you use that channel's RTA again instead of the reference mic. It is really a personal preference thing, but for tuning the room, using the source RTA is really handy and makes the process a lot smoother. I personally do not use a reference mic during a live mix, so I turn those settings off. But for tuning a room, I turn on 'Use RTA source' to make it easier to tune. Couple of other pointers: adjust your Decay to use RMS (average) instead of the peaks, and adjust the Decay time to like 3 sec. This will smooth out the frequencies as 1s usually you see them bouncing around a lot. This will make it easier to see where your true peaks are (averaged out over your decay time) instead of trying to focus on the frequencies bouncing around all the time. If my written notes are hard to read, Drew Brashler did a video showing all these settings and how to enable them. He does most of Behringers X32 and xAir training videos now. Here is the section where he covers setting up the RTA: ua-cam.com/video/Kez1LIHbevY/v-deo.htmlm59s Lastly, I recommend people start using Matrix 1/2 for their main outputs. You can do the same 4-band EQ on that as you can your main mix, and then that gives you options later to send your main mix to other outputs (for example, a video output, recording, lobby, etc.) If you adjust EQ on your main mix, then all of those sources are now using that EQ. Remember, you are adjusting EQ for your room, not every output. Also, 31-band EQ for more advanced system tunings. You get 8 effect inserts, 4 are stereo returns to your FX bus, 5-8 you can insert to any channel. I set up a stereo 31-band to my matrix 1/2 to mix my room.
Chris, I am one of those users that prefer to enable the m/c (m/c follow l/r in setup) for my subs as a mono out and use the m/c for my kick, toms, kick, and Spotify channels. Then I bring those channels into the m/c at -0 db. It really makes things nice that the main l/r controls both the main and subs, yet the overall sub in the main mix is controlled by the m/c slider. The l/r and m/c each have their own eq. (subs low cut at 40, high cut at 160, and the l/r does a low cut at 160) If I use the reference mic as source in the RTA for this process, will it work when providing additional eq to each output eq that we use to provide this natural crossover?
The problem with this method is the frequency response is going to change, depending on where you place the measurement microphone because of reflections in the room. That's why you really need to use an FFT measurement system like SIA Smaart that will time window the room out. You cannot EQ a room you can only EQ a loudspeaker. Your method is OK for roughing things in but you will get much better results with Smaart. Back in the days when an FFT analyzer cost $50,000, yes of course this is the way we did it with an RTA.
Yep, this is more about getting things dialed in as much as possible for people who aren't experts. You can definitely fine tune much further with the method you mentioned, but this method is a simple way to improve the PA EQ.
This video is right in my zone of proximal development, as they say in education circles (sorry). In other words, it's in my sweet spot. It's perfect. Thank you!
I use the x32 stereo graphic EQ in the effects rack, I assume the process is the same for flattening out the EQ and then following the rest of the process while adjusting the graphic EQ?
Eventhough it is not specified in the manual, I believe as a DBX RTA M owner that the mic is a difuse mic mic (not direct) so it should be used at 90 degrees, so aiming at the ceiling and not the speakers/stage. But thats just my opinion.
I love the way you explain this topic. My question is can give me a close result to what SMAART will give? Knowing full well that I do not have SMAART, not planing to get one and do not even know how to use it. Once again, thanks for the great vid
Would you be able to make tutorial about setting corporate audio? Using wireless lavalieres and wireless hand held. With X 32Compact or Yamaha TF. Thank You
Hello... Kindly help me understand why I don't get enough output signal especially from the hand held mic even when the channel is clipping. I use a Midas m32. Not enough channel signal is output at the main LR even when the gain cranked all way.
I might be wrong, but under the impression the midas pro preamps are less powerful than those from behringer series x32 etc.. hence you do need to push a bit more gain.. I recently switched from a x32 to an m32 and found that even though i use the same exact session I had to turn up all the gains significantly to level them properly
I hope you don't mind commenting on an old video. I just discovered you channel and enjoying it. We currently use an iPad during services instead of the X32 itself. I'm not sure why this is, but I'm curious if you recommend this or not, or if it matters.
Our mixer does the same thing. He's typically sitting in different places in the room during rehearsal to get a better feel for what everyone else is hearing. They sit at the mixer during service though. I'm pretty sure they will still have the iPad handy, so they can have two different things visible at one time. Using the iPad to move around the room is great!
How do I set my Rta back to factory setting when I’m done my Rta is no longer reading like it used to and I didn’t write down the factory settings now I get feed back and my Rta won’t show where it’s comming from
It’s a pain eh! I like to take photos of each screen as I set it up so i can refer back, to reverse the process. Also I might shoot channel settings for each input, it’s easier than writing in a book. It came in very handy when I went to a different venue, I was able to take all my settings with me.
Hey kade! Great video. I’m wondering if we can use any reference microphone or if that’s the one we need. My church isn’t really on a high budget so I was looking at the behringer ECM8000 and was wondering if you think that mic could get the job done. Thank you and God bless you.
Cheaper ones are most likely going to be less accurate, but just as long as your using a "reference" mic with a flat frequency response, you should be good. The ECM8000 should do just fine.
Great question! We actually do not have stage monitors because we are 100% in-ear monitoring at my church. But, if I did have stage monitors, I'd EQ them separately. So, go through this process with mains only. And then go through the process again with monitors only, putting your reference mic on the stage.
Hey Collab W, Wanted to run a test using sonar works. How would I be able to have the whole mix hit sonar works on a computer, return to the x32 and then to the house? I have Dante as well. Thanks in advanced, again this is just a test 😅
Is it recommended to use the auto EQ option in the DBX driverack PA2 instead of the regular pink noise process? the downside of using the regular process is that it makes too much noise and sometimes it can be very annoying for the audience at the event if you dont have time to EQ before they arrive Thanks
I found the opposite to be true, as far as annoying people. Gradually increasing volume static/pink noise seems to bother people less than the loud quickly increasing volume swoops that the auto EQ does on the Driverack. Automation is cool, but dirty looks and and people covering their ears is not. Lol.
what is the correct position for the type of microphone dbx rta-m??? Many people say that this microphone should be placed vertically and with the polarity reversed.
I've had good success pointing it toward the main speakers, as the same angle they are hanging. I've not tried the vertical method, but would be interested in how the two methods compare.
Hi! we're using a x32 rack. On the x32mix app for iPad there is no RTA tab under monitors.... having trouble finding the peak hold and decay settings. Thanks!
ahhh... perfect. Much appreciated. I don't see a decay setting, but trust the whatever the default is will get me through! Thanks again!@@collabworship
We tune with an empty room because it would be annoying for your whole congregation to sit there and listen to pink noise while you work on EQ. We do make sure all the chairs are out though because they affect the room acoustics a lot. Plus we do the initial mix during rehearsal on Sundays in an empty room anyway. We don't recommend tuning with music as there are so many variables to make it biased. Tune with pink noise like we show in the video and then go listen to your sound check for reference to how the tuning affected the sound. Turn it off and on to see if you got the results you want.
@@collabworship your microphone and pink noise are just as biased. and in so many situations in so many other fields of audio you will not have pink noise and reference microphones available, not to mention the time to actually set up and use them. but you can always have some music quickly playing from an ipod through your mixer to tune a room.
What shape curve are we aiming for? I've heard it said that a flat curve doesn't sound good. The same people have said that a bump in the bass frequencies and a rolling off of the highs is the way to go. What shape do you aim for usually? Many thanks!
Hey Mark - the sub lows (100Hz and down) are definitely higher than the rest of the frequency spectrum for me. But there isn't a specific "shape" per say. I just look for frequencies that are quite a bit higher (or lower) that those around them and fix them.
It's been a few years since you made this, so you might not see this... However, in an audio system I have "inherited" at my job, the main mix output goes through a DBX processor before hitting the amps. Should I keep the DBX processor in the signal path, or take it out? or should I configure the DBX processor to bypass the EQ it also can do, and just do it all on our M32R console? (note: I'm usually a lighting guy but I'm slowly learning audio stuffs...)
@@collabworship To be honest I am not sure if it is currently set correctly for the system/room... everything sounds fairly muddy... though I am also fighting against a very echoey space (sans bodies/clothing). I haven't quite made heads or tails of it yet (a lot of its features are well above my LX-oriented head). but I'll play around with it a bit...
Not really. A reference microphone has a flat frequency response, whereas the others don't. So, using another mic to EQ your room really isn't giving you an accurate result because the mic itself applies it's own EQ before sending the signal to the mixer.
Hi there..... i managed to eq main LR output during live ...thanks. .... May I ask if I can use this also if I use my X32 in the recording studio? I can calibrate the room coming from the main LR output. But for some reason the control monitor seems like not calibrated? Is the control monitor can be link to the EQ set of the main LR? Or maybe I am not doing the right thing. please help... thanks
A regular microphone does not have a flat frequency response. It accentuates certain frequencies depending on it's purpose. You can use them to EQ a room, but you will get skewed results. It's better to invest in a reference mic.
So this may be a no-brainer question, but does the room need to be empty to tune it? With being a church plant so many things are happening at the same time. People moving in and out, screens and lighting being set up.
Hey April - I recommend that the room be set up for worship (chairs set up, etc). But no one should be in the room while you are EQing the room. Otherwise the ambient noise of people moving around will skew your results.
The concept is the same, the process of doing so will just be unique to your mixer. Might try doing a quick google/youtube search and if anyone has made a tutorial for your mixer.
Hello Kade, I stated using the X32 Behringer a 2 or 3 Months, for some reason i did hit something on it and activate the Solo Btn on the Main LR Fader, i can't find the way how to Un-solo, i am unable to use the Main Fader for the volume... if you know how to or where to go on the Mixer and fix this, please help. thanks
we had a outside audio company install our system which included ringing out the room. I noticed he did this in the effects section using the graphic equalizer This takes away one of two of my effects because they have also use on for my subs. thought?
Many prefer graphic EQ for EQing a room. Defnitely no harm, just a matter of preference. If you want to free up those FX slots, you can use the EQ on the main mix instead.
Thanks Kade for sharing your knowledge. My question is I have our mains assigned to matrix 1/2 and our subs to Matrix 3. Should I have the subs on when running the pink noise through the mains and will the pink noise come through the subs, as I have a high shelf turning off the higher frequencies in my subs. If the pink noise do come through the subs, would I do the sub EQ separate of the mains or do them together?
Hey Dan - Pink noise covers the full frequency spectrum, so you can use it to EQ your subs too. You'll EQ your mains on Matrix 1/2 and your sub on Matrix 3.
No, it has to be a "reference" microphone because they are made to have a flat, unbiased frequency response. Any other kind of microphone is going to have frequency biases.
It will most likely sound better. Natural acoustical treatment. It would probably be nice to get an EQ adjustment with the room full of people, but then you'd have to subject everyone to pink noise while you do it, which they would certainly not appreciate lol. Getting your room EQ'd empty is the best option and will still get you great results, even after filling it with people.
@@collabworship Thank you so much for responding. On another video, you recommended us to go to a church that has a decent sound & to observe their EQ curve coming out of the speakers using an RTA mic (with our phone). Do you recommend (as a good starting point) making our curve look relatively the same when we work at our church? I ask because I consider myself pretty good at making instruments and speakers sound good but when the band goes up it seems like I don’t know where to start when EQing the master bus.
Do you do this for every Output. i.e Front of house and also monitors? For example, would you use a different Graphic EQ for each monitor positioned separately?
You'll do it seperately for monitors and mains. Your monitors can likely share the same result, but it wouldn't hurt to customize it for each one if you have the time.
I have not use the Qu-32, but I imagine the process would be very similar since it is also a digital mixer. Yes, I recommend using an RTA mic or at least something with a flat frequency response. Otherwise, what the mic hears will be 'colored' and make it tough to properly tune your room. -Kade
Without an RTA mic, you'll get skewed results. Other microphones have a modified frequency response (vs a flat frequency response on the RTA mic), so they will hear the room with their own bias.
Every room reflects and absorbs frequencies differently. An RTA will help you find the ranges that are out of control, and you can use EQ to balance them alongside the rest of the frequency spectrum.
Hey Mariano - you can definitely do this with the X32 Rack. Just follow this same process with the iPad app and you'll be good to go. I don't have a video specifically dedicated to running through this process on the iPad app, but all the features on the X32 are also available on the app - you just have to search a bit to find them sometimes. :) -Kade
Hey Fernando - You can give a normal mic a shot, but your results will be skewed. The reason is, normal vocal mics have a frequency response that is already adjusted to sound best for a vocal. So, it is going to favor some frequencies over the others, making it hard to figure out what is really going on in your room.
yes you can. you would need a 32ch eq in between your main LR and speakers if one is not present on your analog board. You can also use an RTA analyzer app on your phone if you don't have software and a RTA mic. You can download a pink noise file from the internet so that you can generate it on your loud speaker. I hope this helps and that others may comment with better info if necessary.
Great question, Patrick. I would try it both ways and see which gets the best result. You can save each test as a preset for easy A/B comparison. -Kade
I would try EQing the main speakers first, then bringing up the balcony speakers to see how it affected it. For balcony speakers, I would DEFINITELY have the main speakers on, since there'll still be some bleed from the main speakers that'll color the sound. Of course, time-aligning the balcony speakers is important too, but that's more difficult to describe in a comment.
Hey Benjamin - The X32 Compact is very similar to the full version. Only difference is, the buttons may be in a slightly different place. When it comes to the meters, the one's shown in this video are from the X32-Edit Mac app. So, it won't look exactly the same as the X32 Compact, but you should notice similarities. Hope that helps! -Kade
Is it possible to do the same thing but using SMAART to see the analyzer from the channel input where is connected the misure microphone by USB connection?I mean, for example, I send pink noise by X32 internal generator in LR, I connect my mic in a channel that will be obviously close to the FOH, but I pick up the signal of of it from USB and send to Smaart, where I can see the spectre and fix the curve by a graphic eq inserted on LR in X32?Thank you very much.
Since you have SMAART you should take readings from several different positions around the room and use the average feature to design an EQ curve that is more accurate. Even for those without SMAART, repeat the steps in the video several times, writing down the changes that had to be made to flatten the room, and you should notice some trends in the data. Average the amount of cut on these problem frequencies and apply that average to the mains EQ of your choice.
When it comes to EQing your room, a 31-band graphic EQ will give you a 'smoother' result. But, for simplicity sake, I prefer to use parametric. To ensure you still have a smooth result, keep your Q value around 4. This gives you a very similar effect to adjusting one knob on a 31-band graphic EQ. Hope that helps! -Kade
@@collabworship I'm a Midas user and I must say you guys are doing good and God bless you. I use both parametric and graphic on my main mix . What do you think of that?
I definitely get where you are going with this. The problem is, the human ear does not have a flat frequency response. So naturally, some frequencies are going to 'stand out' even when they might be where they need to be. So, I definitely recommend using a reference mic connected to an RTA for the most accurate results. -Kade
@@collabworship could you possibly make a video? i have my rta hooked up right now and am trying to get it to be the source on my main mix for the rta function to work. im lost. because the rta is also showing the input of pink noise on the main LR mix
So you sacrifice your main eq to tune the speakers to the room instead of using the system processor eq to do this. I strongly disagree with the way you are explaining this. And it also should be done one side at a time then one final tweak with both sides. If it gets done your way you will have boost the heck out the bass and kick drum to make the sound good instead of using main eq on board for the tonality of all instruments and music. Yes sure if you don’t have a processor then you have no choice but to do it your way. But when ever possible advice to use a system processor. Cheers
I get your point, Noel. At the same time, I've been using the technique in this video for years, in multiple venues, and it always works like a charm. Plus, I have trust issues with automatic processors. Lol.
@@collabworship I agree with you on that one. I hate the wizards too. When I do the room flat eq I do them by hand using audio tools transfer function software running thru the processor then I connect the board in-line..
Not exactly, but the results are very similar. When you "ring out a room" you turn up a mic until it produces feedback and then use EQ to eliminate it. Then you do it again, and again, until multiple frequencies feedback at the same time. When EQing a room (like explained in this video), you don't use feedback as the gauge, but an RTA. Again, you'll get a similar result. They are just two different techniques.
Hey Isak - Our focus at Collaborate Worship is helping churches with sound. Of course, the sound principles we teach can be used anywhere. We just teach everything from a perspective of running sound during a church service. -Kade
If I may make a suggestion, you can do this without an iPad and without jumping back and forth between the ref mic channel and the main mix. Under the RTA screen, use the first encoder knob and rotate to select the 'Use RTA Source' option, and then use the last rotary knob and select your reference mic channel. This will use the ref mic as the RTA for EVERY EQ overlay on your board. That way, when you are adjusting your main mix, you are actually looking at the reference mic RTA instead of the main mix RTA. Whenever you are done, you can deselect the 'Use RTA source' if you want. It is nice to have on during a performance though, but if you are making changes to individual channels it becomes a little harder to use. That is where the 'Solo Priority' option can come in handy (same rotary knob as the 'use rta source' knob). If you solo a channel, you use that channel's RTA again instead of the reference mic.
It is really a personal preference thing, but for tuning the room, using the source RTA is really handy and makes the process a lot smoother. I personally do not use a reference mic during a live mix, so I turn those settings off. But for tuning a room, I turn on 'Use RTA source' to make it easier to tune.
Couple of other pointers: adjust your Decay to use RMS (average) instead of the peaks, and adjust the Decay time to like 3 sec. This will smooth out the frequencies as 1s usually you see them bouncing around a lot. This will make it easier to see where your true peaks are (averaged out over your decay time) instead of trying to focus on the frequencies bouncing around all the time.
If my written notes are hard to read, Drew Brashler did a video showing all these settings and how to enable them. He does most of Behringers X32 and xAir training videos now. Here is the section where he covers setting up the RTA: ua-cam.com/video/Kez1LIHbevY/v-deo.htmlm59s
Lastly, I recommend people start using Matrix 1/2 for their main outputs. You can do the same 4-band EQ on that as you can your main mix, and then that gives you options later to send your main mix to other outputs (for example, a video output, recording, lobby, etc.) If you adjust EQ on your main mix, then all of those sources are now using that EQ. Remember, you are adjusting EQ for your room, not every output.
Also, 31-band EQ for more advanced system tunings. You get 8 effect inserts, 4 are stereo returns to your FX bus, 5-8 you can insert to any channel. I set up a stereo 31-band to my matrix 1/2 to mix my room.
Great tips, Chris! Thank you! -Kade
Was going to make this exact post. Thanks to all you guys at Collaborate Worship for all you do. You are awesome guys!!!
Hi this saves so much time many thanks.
can you make a video of this i love the ideas
Chris, I am one of those users that prefer to enable the m/c (m/c follow l/r in setup) for my subs as a mono out and use the m/c for my kick, toms, kick, and Spotify channels. Then I bring those channels into the m/c at -0 db. It really makes things nice that the main l/r controls both the main and subs, yet the overall sub in the main mix is controlled by the m/c slider.
The l/r and m/c each have their own eq. (subs low cut at 40, high cut at 160, and the l/r does a low cut at 160)
If I use the reference mic as source in the RTA for this process, will it work when providing additional eq to each output eq that we use to provide this natural crossover?
The problem with this method is the frequency response is going to change, depending on where you place the measurement microphone because of reflections in the room. That's why you really need to use an FFT measurement system like SIA Smaart that will time window the room out. You cannot EQ a room you can only EQ a loudspeaker. Your method is OK for roughing things in but you will get much better results with Smaart. Back in the days when an FFT analyzer cost $50,000, yes of course this is the way we did it with an RTA.
Yep, this is more about getting things dialed in as much as possible for people who aren't experts. You can definitely fine tune much further with the method you mentioned, but this method is a simple way to improve the PA EQ.
Just got our X32! Can't wait to use your tips for our church! Keep up the good work!
Thanks, Abe! -Kade
This video is right in my zone of proximal development, as they say in education circles (sorry). In other words, it's in my sweet spot. It's perfect. Thank you!
I use the x32 stereo graphic EQ in the effects rack, I assume the process is the same for flattening out the EQ and then following the rest of the process while adjusting the graphic EQ?
You are correct. I know several who prefer to use the Stereo Graphic EQ in the effects rack - definitely a good choice!
Eventhough it is not specified in the manual, I believe as a DBX RTA M owner that the mic is a difuse mic mic (not direct) so it should be used at 90 degrees, so aiming at the ceiling and not the speakers/stage. But thats just my opinion.
Thanks for the tip man! I'll look into it and test it out.
I love the way you explain this topic.
My question is can give me a close result to what SMAART will give? Knowing full well that I do not have SMAART, not planing to get one and do not even know how to use it.
Once again, thanks for the great vid
I've not use SMAART, so not sure on the comparison.
Since it has being working for you, I will definitely put it to practice. Thanks for sharing
Would you be able to make tutorial about setting corporate audio? Using wireless lavalieres and wireless hand held. With X 32Compact or Yamaha TF.
Thank You
Hello...
Kindly help me understand why I don't get enough output signal especially from the hand held mic even when the channel is clipping.
I use a Midas m32. Not enough channel signal is output at the main LR even when the gain cranked all way.
Confirm your compressor is not taking away the gain
I am not using any compressor
I might be wrong, but under the impression the midas pro preamps are less powerful than those from behringer series x32 etc.. hence you do need to push a bit more gain.. I recently switched from a x32 to an m32 and found that even though i use the same exact session I had to turn up all the gains significantly to level them properly
I hope you don't mind commenting on an old video. I just discovered you channel and enjoying it. We currently use an iPad during services instead of the X32 itself. I'm not sure why this is, but I'm curious if you recommend this or not, or if it matters.
Our mixer does the same thing. He's typically sitting in different places in the room during rehearsal to get a better feel for what everyone else is hearing. They sit at the mixer during service though. I'm pretty sure they will still have the iPad handy, so they can have two different things visible at one time. Using the iPad to move around the room is great!
How do I set my Rta back to factory setting when I’m done my Rta is no longer reading like it used to and I didn’t write down the factory settings now I get feed back and my Rta won’t show where it’s comming from
It’s a pain eh! I like to take photos of each screen as I set it up so i can refer back, to reverse the process.
Also I might shoot channel settings for each input, it’s easier than writing in a book. It came in very handy when I went to a different venue, I was able to take all my settings with me.
Hey kade! Great video. I’m wondering if we can use any reference microphone or if that’s the one we need. My church isn’t really on a high budget so I was looking at the behringer ECM8000 and was wondering if you think that mic could get the job done. Thank you and God bless you.
Cheaper ones are most likely going to be less accurate, but just as long as your using a "reference" mic with a flat frequency response, you should be good. The ECM8000 should do just fine.
@@collabworship Awesome. Thank you so much Kade.
great video. Can you do one on how to measure the R60 values in the worship space?
Are your on-stage mix monitors (wedges) on and playing pink noise too, while you're doing this? I presume yes, as you're trying to address feedback?
Great question! We actually do not have stage monitors because we are 100% in-ear monitoring at my church. But, if I did have stage monitors, I'd EQ them separately.
So, go through this process with mains only. And then go through the process again with monitors only, putting your reference mic on the stage.
@@collabworship Nice, thanks for responding!
@@collabworship When EQ'ing floor wedges, would you point the RTA microphone parallel to the ground, or at the wedges?
@@standardracer You'll probably get better results placing it parallel with the ground.
Hey Collab W,
Wanted to run a test using sonar works. How would I be able to have the whole mix hit sonar works on a computer, return to the x32 and then to the house? I have Dante as well.
Thanks in advanced, again this is just a test 😅
Is it recommended to use the auto EQ option in the DBX driverack PA2 instead of the regular pink noise process? the downside of using the regular process is that it makes too much noise and sometimes it can be very annoying for the audience at the event if you dont have time to EQ before they arrive
Thanks
I found the opposite to be true, as far as annoying people. Gradually increasing volume static/pink noise seems to bother people less than the loud quickly increasing volume swoops that the auto EQ does on the Driverack. Automation is cool, but dirty looks and and people covering their ears is not. Lol.
I disagree
what is the correct position for the type of microphone dbx rta-m???
Many people say that this microphone should be placed vertically and with the polarity reversed.
I've had good success pointing it toward the main speakers, as the same angle they are hanging. I've not tried the vertical method, but would be interested in how the two methods compare.
We only have an iPad as an interface. Actually, we can view this with 2 iPads. Can we use on instead of the board? and the other as you suggest?
You bet!
I agree with the discussions however I would like to know how you proceed to align your subwoofer?
Make a separate mix on the board for the sub
Can we use condeser mic for RTA or EQ the area ??
It needs to a reference microphone with a flat frequency response.
Hi! we're using a x32 rack. On the x32mix app for iPad there is no RTA tab under monitors.... having trouble finding the peak hold and decay settings. Thanks!
Head to the SETUP screen and GLOBAL tab. There, you have a few options for the RTA.
ahhh... perfect. Much appreciated. I don't see a decay setting, but trust the whatever the default is will get me through! Thanks again!@@collabworship
Is it best to tune an empty room or with an audience before the service starts? Also, can tune the room using virtual sound check? Thanks!
We tune with an empty room because it would be annoying for your whole congregation to sit there and listen to pink noise while you work on EQ. We do make sure all the chairs are out though because they affect the room acoustics a lot. Plus we do the initial mix during rehearsal on Sundays in an empty room anyway.
We don't recommend tuning with music as there are so many variables to make it biased. Tune with pink noise like we show in the video and then go listen to your sound check for reference to how the tuning affected the sound. Turn it off and on to see if you got the results you want.
@@collabworship your microphone and pink noise are just as biased. and in so many situations in so many other fields of audio you will not have pink noise and reference microphones available, not to mention the time to actually set up and use them. but you can always have some music quickly playing from an ipod through your mixer to tune a room.
We are about to EQ our room but we are using Presonus StudioLive. I don't believe they have a built in oscillator. Any other options?
You can play Pink Noise from any source. You'll even find it on UA-cam.
What shape curve are we aiming for? I've heard it said that a flat curve doesn't sound good. The same people have said that a bump in the bass frequencies and a rolling off of the highs is the way to go. What shape do you aim for usually? Many thanks!
Hey Mark - the sub lows (100Hz and down) are definitely higher than the rest of the frequency spectrum for me. But there isn't a specific "shape" per say. I just look for frequencies that are quite a bit higher (or lower) that those around them and fix them.
It's been a few years since you made this, so you might not see this...
However, in an audio system I have "inherited" at my job, the main mix output goes through a DBX processor before hitting the amps. Should I keep the DBX processor in the signal path, or take it out? or should I configure the DBX processor to bypass the EQ it also can do, and just do it all on our M32R console?
(note: I'm usually a lighting guy but I'm slowly learning audio stuffs...)
If you are happy with the results of the DBX processor, leave it there. But I do recommending digging in and learning what it is actually doing.
@@collabworship To be honest I am not sure if it is currently set correctly for the system/room... everything sounds fairly muddy... though I am also fighting against a very echoey space (sans bodies/clothing). I haven't quite made heads or tails of it yet (a lot of its features are well above my LX-oriented head). but I'll play around with it a bit...
Apart from using a reference microphone can you used any microphone to EQ your church room. Let say a condenser mic or ordinary mic.
Not really. A reference microphone has a flat frequency response, whereas the others don't. So, using another mic to EQ your room really isn't giving you an accurate result because the mic itself applies it's own EQ before sending the signal to the mixer.
Hi there..... i managed to eq main LR output during live ...thanks. .... May I ask if I can use this also if I use my X32 in the recording studio? I can calibrate the room coming from the main LR output. But for some reason the control monitor seems like not calibrated? Is the control monitor can be link to the EQ set of the main LR? Or maybe I am not doing the right thing. please help... thanks
Can you do this with a regular microphone with no eq
A regular microphone does not have a flat frequency response. It accentuates certain frequencies depending on it's purpose. You can use them to EQ a room, but you will get skewed results. It's better to invest in a reference mic.
So this may be a no-brainer question, but does the room need to be empty to tune it? With being a church plant so many things are happening at the same time. People moving in and out, screens and lighting being set up.
Hey April - I recommend that the room be set up for worship (chairs set up, etc). But no one should be in the room while you are EQing the room. Otherwise the ambient noise of people moving around will skew your results.
Is this something you’d do without running audio thru any subs? Just the tops?
With this technique you would run it through both mains and subs.
What is the best way to do this if I do not have a beringer console?
The concept is the same, the process of doing so will just be unique to your mixer. Might try doing a quick google/youtube search and if anyone has made a tutorial for your mixer.
How do you do this with a subwoofer on a seperate bus
You'll repeat the same process for your Subwoofer bus.
Can I do this with a CAD GXL3000BP. If so which setting should I use? It is omnidirectional
Nope. You cannot use an omnidirectional mic to EQ your room. You need a cardioid pickup pattern with a flat frequency response.
Hello Kade, I stated using the X32 Behringer a 2 or 3 Months, for some reason i did hit something on it and activate the Solo Btn on the Main LR Fader, i can't find the way how to Un-solo, i am unable to use the Main Fader for the volume... if you know how to or where to go on the Mixer and fix this, please help. thanks
Hey Jose - Not exactly sure what you mean. Can you clarify?
we had a outside audio company install our system which included ringing out the room. I noticed he did this in the effects section using the graphic equalizer This takes away one of two of my effects because they have also use on for my subs. thought?
Many prefer graphic EQ for EQing a room. Defnitely no harm, just a matter of preference. If you want to free up those FX slots, you can use the EQ on the main mix instead.
Thanks Kade for sharing your knowledge. My question is I have our mains assigned to matrix 1/2 and our subs to Matrix 3. Should I have the subs on when running the pink noise through the mains and will the pink noise come through the subs, as I have a high shelf turning off the higher frequencies in my subs. If the pink noise do come through the subs, would I do the sub EQ separate of the mains or do them together?
Hey Dan - Pink noise covers the full frequency spectrum, so you can use it to EQ your subs too. You'll EQ your mains on Matrix 1/2 and your sub on Matrix 3.
@@collabworship thank you!
Thank you for sharing. I have one question. Is it possible to EQ a room using a regular music coming from an mp3 player?
Not sure what you mean.
@@collabworship Instead of using pink noise, is there a way to use regular recorded music as the source?
Can you do this with a shotgun mic?
No, it has to be a "reference" microphone because they are made to have a flat, unbiased frequency response. Any other kind of microphone is going to have frequency biases.
What happens when the room fills up with people and the Room Ambience changes???
It will most likely sound better. Natural acoustical treatment.
It would probably be nice to get an EQ adjustment with the room full of people, but then you'd have to subject everyone to pink noise while you do it, which they would certainly not appreciate lol.
Getting your room EQ'd empty is the best option and will still get you great results, even after filling it with people.
How far back of the speakers would be the “listening area” to place the rta?
Half to three quaters of the way into your listening area.
Shouldn't you insert a Graphic EQ on the main mix rather than a parametric EQ?
Either way. I've done it both ways, and usually prefer the parametric EQ (unless lots of adjustments need to be made).
Once flat, when the band goes on stage, what do you recommend us to EQ? Say if it sounds muddy....
Every room is going to be different. But muddiness usually takes place in the 100-300Hz range.
@@collabworship Thank you so much for responding.
On another video, you recommended us to go to a church that has a decent sound & to observe their EQ curve coming out of the speakers using an RTA mic (with our phone).
Do you recommend (as a good starting point) making our curve look relatively the same when we work at our church?
I ask because I consider myself pretty good at making instruments and speakers sound good but when the band goes up it seems like I don’t know where to start when EQing the master bus.
@@ItzTooSik Yep. That's a great idea.
Do you do this for every Output. i.e Front of house and also monitors? For example, would you use a different Graphic EQ for each monitor positioned separately?
You'll do it seperately for monitors and mains. Your monitors can likely share the same result, but it wouldn't hurt to customize it for each one if you have the time.
@@collabworship Yes, Time and real estate on my FXs rack.
Do you do this again for a separate stage eq or does this one time eq the entire room?
For stage EQ, you'll use the same process but different RTA mic placement. Place the mics where the musicians/singers stand.
At my church the singers and musicians are on the floor. The pastor/clergy and anyone else who is directing the service usually speak from the stage.
What pink noise frequency are you generating? Is it 1000Hz(1Khz)?
Pink noise covers the full frequency spectrum. Here's an example: ua-cam.com/video/ZXtimhT-ff4/v-deo.html
We have a Qu 32 from Allen and heath. Is the process the same? And does it have to be a RTA mic? Thanks man.
I have not use the Qu-32, but I imagine the process would be very similar since it is also a digital mixer.
Yes, I recommend using an RTA mic or at least something with a flat frequency response. Otherwise, what the mic hears will be 'colored' and make it tough to properly tune your room.
-Kade
Cool. Thank you!!
Can I use other non-RTA microphone? What is the impact if I do so? Will I get useless result?
Without an RTA mic, you'll get skewed results. Other microphones have a modified frequency response (vs a flat frequency response on the RTA mic), so they will hear the room with their own bias.
@@collabworship Will it solve some feedback problems?
@@mrr319 Definitely.
Off topic, what camera/lens are you using? clarity is great!
Canon 5d mark iv with 24-70 f2.8 lens - thanks for the compliment! -Kade
@@collabworship well that would explain it. You can’t get much better than that!
what do you mean by frequency that sticks in your room
Every room reflects and absorbs frequencies differently. An RTA will help you find the ranges that are out of control, and you can use EQ to balance them alongside the rest of the frequency spectrum.
@@collabworship thank you
hi, is the x32 rack mount unit can also do the room calibration? do you have a video tutorial on that too? thanks!!
Hey Mariano - you can definitely do this with the X32 Rack. Just follow this same process with the iPad app and you'll be good to go. I don't have a video specifically dedicated to running through this process on the iPad app, but all the features on the X32 are also available on the app - you just have to search a bit to find them sometimes. :) -Kade
Thank you so much!
Could you do this with a normal mic just to get you by till you purchase an RTA mic?
Hey Fernando - You can give a normal mic a shot, but your results will be skewed. The reason is, normal vocal mics have a frequency response that is already adjusted to sound best for a vocal. So, it is going to favor some frequencies over the others, making it hard to figure out what is really going on in your room.
@@collabworship ok thank you very much for the quick reply, I have a gig today. I'll let you know how it goes.
Hey Kade! Is there a way to do this with an analog mixer?
Thanks for all of the resources you put out. They're extremely helpful!
yes you can. you would need a 32ch eq in between your main LR and speakers if one is not present on your analog board. You can also use an RTA analyzer app on your phone if you don't have software and a RTA mic. You can download a pink noise file from the internet so that you can generate it on your loud speaker. I hope this helps and that others may comment with better info if necessary.
I'll second what Jessie said. Great advice! -Kade
thank you sir
would you MUTE balcony speakers when EQ'ing the main and visa versa, would you MUTE the main speakers when EQ'ing the balcony speakers.
Great question, Patrick. I would try it both ways and see which gets the best result. You can save each test as a preset for easy A/B comparison. -Kade
I would try EQing the main speakers first, then bringing up the balcony speakers to see how it affected it. For balcony speakers, I would DEFINITELY have the main speakers on, since there'll still be some bleed from the main speakers that'll color the sound. Of course, time-aligning the balcony speakers is important too, but that's more difficult to describe in a comment.
Hi, can I use the same for the monitors in the stage? Thank you in advance!
You bet!
We use the x32 compact. It's a little different in the meters. Can you help?
Hey Benjamin - The X32 Compact is very similar to the full version. Only difference is, the buttons may be in a slightly different place.
When it comes to the meters, the one's shown in this video are from the X32-Edit Mac app. So, it won't look exactly the same as the X32 Compact, but you should notice similarities.
Hope that helps! -Kade
Thank you so much.
You're welcome!
Where you conect the micro
Any open input channel.
thank you
Is it possible to do the same thing but using SMAART to see the analyzer from the channel input where is connected the misure microphone by USB connection?I mean, for example, I send pink noise by X32 internal generator in LR, I connect my mic in a channel that will be obviously close to the FOH, but I pick up the signal of of it from USB and send to Smaart, where I can see the spectre and fix the curve by a graphic eq inserted on LR in X32?Thank you very much.
Sounds like you are on the right track. I don't see why this wouldn't work and sounds like a great solution! Let me know how it goes. -Kade
Since you have SMAART you should take readings from several different positions around the room and use the average feature to design an EQ curve that is more accurate.
Even for those without SMAART, repeat the steps in the video several times, writing down the changes that had to be made to flatten the room, and you should notice some trends in the data. Average the amount of cut on these problem frequencies and apply that average to the mains EQ of your choice.
What’s the difference between using the graphic EQ and using this EQ?
Great video by the way! 👍
When it comes to EQing your room, a 31-band graphic EQ will give you a 'smoother' result. But, for simplicity sake, I prefer to use parametric. To ensure you still have a smooth result, keep your Q value around 4. This gives you a very similar effect to adjusting one knob on a 31-band graphic EQ.
Hope that helps!
-Kade
Collaborate Worship - Awesome! Thank you!
@@collabworship Thank you for this explanation.
@@collabworship I'm a Midas user and I must say you guys are doing good and God bless you.
I use both parametric and graphic on my main mix . What do you think of that?
@@immanueltetteh6232 If it works, it works!
Thank you
Has anyone tried using the pink noise oscillator and then sweeping each frequency with a narrow Q and a high gain to see what stands out?
I definitely get where you are going with this. The problem is, the human ear does not have a flat frequency response. So naturally, some frequencies are going to 'stand out' even when they might be where they need to be. So, I definitely recommend using a reference mic connected to an RTA for the most accurate results. -Kade
Thanks
its more accurate if you use graphic eq than peq
Yep, just a little more complicated for a newbie. We have some content coming out soon on using graphic EQ to EQ your room though.
Please my actually proble EQ the room
Owsome
How about XR16?
Hey Kareem - you can definitely use the same process on the XR16.
@@collabworship could you possibly make a video? i have my rta hooked up right now and am trying to get it to be the source on my main mix for the rta function to work. im lost. because the rta is also showing the input of pink noise on the main LR mix
@@thebigac102 You'll want to look at the RTA on the RTA mic's channel when doing this, not the RTA on the main mix.
Btw thanks for the vid. But WE need to See how to doit
This guy's really handsome though (I know this is unrelated but yeah)
More pictures would help
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Best way to earn an acoustic help
So you sacrifice your main eq to tune the speakers to the room instead of using the system processor eq to do this. I strongly disagree with the way you are explaining this. And it also should be done one side at a time then one final tweak with both sides. If it gets done your way you will have boost the heck out the bass and kick drum to make the sound good instead of using main eq on board for the tonality of all instruments and music. Yes sure if you don’t have a processor then you have no choice but to do it your way. But when ever possible advice to use a system processor. Cheers
I get your point, Noel. At the same time, I've been using the technique in this video for years, in multiple venues, and it always works like a charm. Plus, I have trust issues with automatic processors. Lol.
@@collabworship I agree with you on that one. I hate the wizards too. When I do the room flat eq I do them by hand using audio tools transfer function software running thru the processor then I connect the board in-line..
just for the sake of less experienced people who may not know the right terminology, this process isn't actually EQing a room its ringing out a room
Not exactly, but the results are very similar. When you "ring out a room" you turn up a mic until it produces feedback and then use EQ to eliminate it. Then you do it again, and again, until multiple frequencies feedback at the same time.
When EQing a room (like explained in this video), you don't use feedback as the gauge, but an RTA. Again, you'll get a similar result. They are just two different techniques.
If this is about audio, why mention church? Unrelated and random.
Hey Isak - Our focus at Collaborate Worship is helping churches with sound. Of course, the sound principles we teach can be used anywhere. We just teach everything from a perspective of running sound during a church service. -Kade
If I back up the board does the eq get backed up as well? I am thinking to reset and update my board and don’t want to start completely over
When you save a scene to a flash drive, it saves all of your settings (including EQ).
Would you not utilize the graphic eq section on the M32?
You can use the graphic EQ or parametric. Totally up to you.