To be clear, "5 Times Undertale Foreshadows Deltarune" is not intended as a comprehensive list of every time Undertale hints about something to be in Deltarune. So when scripting, I cut out Clam-Girl foreshadowing Suzy, San's Workshop saying "Don't Forget," and many more things. This is intentional. This video is one part a vehicle for delivering little discoveries and one part a suggestion not to remove Undertale from Deltarune discussion. Also I'm already getting comments irritated that certain points (like Flowey's eyes) aren't "foreshadowing" enough to deserve to be mentioned so... There is no winning here.
I mean the Clam girl thing is probably the most overt instance of undertale foreshadowing deltarune by far and basically everyone already knows about it so it's probably not too worth including. Flowey's eye may be foreshadowing, or it may just be that toby/one of the artists drew the same thing twice and it's not meant to be related, but heres the thing: Theres so many connections between undertale and deltarune that even if you dismiss some of it as references, some of it as coincidence, and some of it as laziness/reuse of assets, theres still a mountain of evidence to suggest that Toby specifically wants us to think about the connections between the games, especially when you consider the overt statements like clam girl, the faq on the website, and the console warning. I mean we know that Toby was a little put off buy the insane popularity of undertale to say the least, he could have made a completely different game, or worked under a pseudonym and still been successful. But he didnt. he made deltarune, a game with so many undertale connections that people who play it are usually confused about if it's a direct sequel or not. There has to be a reason. Sorry for the rant lol.
Aw dude, disregard the gatekeepers and pedants as best you can. You make some of the most consistently comprehensive, utterly fascinating videos in the deltarune fanspace! As an aside, have you given much thought to the festival said to happen in chapter 7? I took note that both Extra Bosses so far took place in typical carnival rides (A calliope, aka the merry-go-round, as well as Spamton NEO's Face Coaster Thing... I don't have much else to ponder beyond that, but i certainly find it interesting. Take care and happy holidays!
@@junipersmith2856 is the Festival due to happen in chapter 7? Can you point me towards where that's mentioned? I could never find any mention of when it's supposed to happen, only "soon".
As soon as the difference between foreshadowing and referencing was mentioned, I realized that because this is an unfinished game with easter eggs, references, and foreshadowing... and knowing Toby's extensive experience in fandom... I bet he's intentionally playing around with keeping us guessing which is which. How else would he create mystery when dataminers and other very dedicated players will post their findings for all to see and discuss? Making an incredible amount of theory-worthy jigsaw puzzles and scrambling them all in the same box. Confusion over which is which is intended, but also a challenge for us to be courteous to eachother when disagreeing.
I have some critisism for your video... I had a hard time stoping the video to read the dense info-dumps in text, which are fine, but maybe slow a little while talking? Since you're using TTS that could be easier than with a voice... Your video is so dense with information that I need to stop the video, read, then go back to hear the whole thing, just give a silent pause or keep the text on the screen for longer...
I always assumed “photon readings negative” just meant pitch darkness, like negative and affirmative, but having the photon count actually be in the negatives and consuming all light around it seems very, very, interesting
The light puzzle in Chapter 2 specifically calls the lights "darkbulbs" that emit shadows, so that's probably as close as we're gonna get to negative photons.
"While human bodies are mostly made of water, monster bodies are made entirely of magic" ...i guess the ocean is getting a whole lot of relevance at one point
There are also some echo flowers dialogues in the wishing room of Undertale that may foreshadow Noelle and Dess. The dialogues is about the wish of two people wanting to see the real star, which interestingly enough, in the DECEMBER spelling puzzle of Deltarune, Noelle tell Kris that Dess promised to take Noelle somewhere with "shining light"
Another things about Asgore, Rudy, Dess and Noelle is that in the Undertale winter alarm clock Asgore says that in Undertale Ruddinn was also sick and he had "fallen" and he talked about his daughters and he talked about the *younger one* (Noelle) you can find all the dialogue in the Undertale winter alarm clock wiki
I think the two sisters are actually shyren and shyra, since if it would be noelle and dess, they would have the lil dialogue blips, like how when undyne and flowey whispered into ones
It'd be a fun subversion if the secret boss is somewhere up high instead, but might not make sense depending on what the secret bosses are leading up to/meant to symbolize
quick thing i wanted to point out, in case you haven't found it yet: i was looking through the game's sound effects and found "snd_him_quick.ogg". it seems to be a snippet of the first part of ANOTHER HIM. this is what plays when you enter a dark world in chapter 2, so that's... interesting. as for actual thoughts on the video. i don't think the ocean is something with kris, but rather something with dark worlds in general. onionsan says the song from the sea is coming from deep, deep below the water - and as far as we know, the darkness that forms dark worlds is deep below the earth. they always _fall_ into dark worlds. when you make a dark fountain, you stab the earth and allow darkness to flow through into the light world. that means there has to be some kind of "darkness reserve" lying below the earth that is where fountains come from, right? an even deeper darkness than dark worlds... darker yet darker if you will? is the song onionsan hears coming from that deeper darkness? did kris hear part of the song when they fell into a dark world for the first time, and that's what the ocean sounds are?? is the song actually the choir sound that we hear in the track THE HOLY?? (and there's a similar choir sound when ralsei talks about the roaring, further associating choir and singing with darkness...) anyway these are just some scattered thoughts haha. maybe i'm onto something, maybe not.
It's all good. Theory crafting these games is like having 50 puzzles dumped into one box. So scattered thoughts are like finding pieces but not being sure which puzzle they're for.
Also, speaking of THE HOLY, did you know that its choir melody is the exact same as the strings in Flashback? I have no clue what to do with this information, so I just write it under anything that mentions THE HOLY, because I can't come to any reasonable theories by myself on this one.
@@_TheMushroomMan if you mean my comment, i'm talking about a sound effect named "him_quick". there's a track in deltarune named "ANOTHER HIM" and "him_quick" is a shortened version of it. (the title comes from "him", aka the name of gaster's theme in the undertale files.)
@@abcdef-ms9mb at the anniversary stream, toby played an unused version of the holy and said "I actually really like this song and wanted to use it to introduce a leitmotif, but I ended up using a more evocative song with a different motif. I'll try to make an excuse to use this song in the game somewhere." so that melody is probably important to something
That's a statue of Asriel Dremurr, a memorial to his tragic death. You can even see his hands setting down what would be Chara onto the bed of flowers. That's why it plays Asriel's theme when you give it the umbrella. Many people speculate that the statue of Asriel was originally located in the MTT resort atop the fountain, but was ripped out to make place for the Mettaton statue, explaining why the fountain is spilling onto the floor; the Mettaton statue wasn't meant to be there. As for Delatrune, this could imply that Asriel is the Knight. An interesting final boss, for sure, especially given Kris's sibling rivalry with him.
@@leedlelel2373 - They wouldn't have known how his horns would've grown, since he never reached adult age, and they never saw him at the village. They're the exact same as his mother's and father's. Plus, if it's not Asriel, who else is the statue supposed to depict?
That echo flower thing is super interesting. The fact that it only has that dialogue if you killed Toriel implies that it is meant to be Toriel after she died, or at least Flowey guessing what Toriel is experiencing. Flowey would probably know what it's like to be dead. But that brings up the question, what is it like to be dead in undertale/deltarune? There are a few things that sound like an afterlife, and multiple references to a character being trapped in a dark void. Most importantly the unused text in the code, and the thing where spamton seemingly references it. This also seems to be connected to the amalgamates, how toriel says "it's so cold" and one amalgamate says "it's so cold", also amalgamates are monsters that came back from the dead. And maybe the gaster followers too? i don't remember what they all say. I think it also probably isn't the dark world exactly, or related to entry 17, mostly because the dark world has stuff and other characters in it. There probably something here but i have no idea what it could be
You're totally right! Flowey would know what it's like to be dead since Asriel was probably dead before he got turned into a golden flower. He has experienced the darkness. And before that Gaster was doing research on the darkness. Dess (or another person) is trapped in the darkness. Question is: What is the darkness exactly? We could speculate that it's some form of afterlife but maybe it's something else. Im wondering whether there's a difference between the darkness that is mentioned in "Don't forget" (that darkness seems to specifically mean the dark worlds Kris and Susie visit) and the darkness where you can get trapped in. If it were the same darkness it would mean that some people could enter it without being dead but some only enter it when dead or possibly die there and can't go back? I think to solve this puzzle we need to know what the line "There's a light inside your soul that's still shining in the cold, with the truth, the promise in our hearts" means! For a long time I was thinking that the "cold" might have something to do with Noelle but with the Toriel, Amalgamates and Dess dialogue, Toby seems to use that word specifically when speaking of "the dark." Just some scattered thoughts, it's still a big mystery ^^'
I remember some things that the Gaster followers said but this one was curious: *talking about Gaster and that he died falling into his own creation* well i should stop talking *It's rude to talk about someone who's listening* i don't remember very much the exact same dialogue but i remember the: *It's rude to talk about someone who's listening* because that really scared me another Gaster follower said that he had a piece of Gaster and i remember Goner kid saying: *can you imagine a world where you don't exist?* Everything functions perfectly without you... The thought terrifies me... Uh? An umbrella? But It's not raining... haha thanks it makes me feel a little better... *You should just forget about me.* And Asriel also said that when he breaks the barrier and says that without the souls he cannot maintain his form. That's all i can remember for now.
@@schalomforever *When the light is running low and the shadows start to grow and the places that you know seem like fantasy* the dark worlds formed in the library and in the closet of Kris' school the places that they know *There's a light inside your soul that's still shining in the cold* when we seal the fountains there's a dialogue that says: (It's like your very soul it's glowing) and our soul appeares and shines while it's sealing the fountain *With the truth the promise in our hearts* maybe it's the promise we made with Ralsei of sealing the fountains and doing everything without fighting or that the truth in *our hearts* is that Kris is not the one in control the soul is *Don't forget i'm with you in the dark* Maybe is that Susie and/or Ralsei they are the ones who are with you most of the time in the dark worlds.
@@Iamalwayswatchingyouall Good points, I actually forgot about the dialogue of the soul when sealing the fountains. On the other hand I think that we don't know enough about the plot yet to make any probable assumptions about the Don't forget lyrics. They're so vague yet the meaning will probably be blatantly obvious once the other chapters come out. 🤷🏼♀️ Also I'm not sure, but if I remember correctly the Gaster Follower never explicitly said that he died. Only that he shattered across time and space and that he fell into his own creation. We don't know for sure if he's dead.
Those are some "VERY VERY" spicy connections between both games. Since the Ancient Greek letter "Delta" is a triangle Δ, which has three sides, I too believe those things you mentioned which all come in threes could be important. I think that UNDERTALE is not only an excellent experience in its own right, but that it is also part of greater puzzle that DELTARUNE is part of. When DELTARUNE is "complete", I don't think we'll ever look at UNDERTALE the same way again. In essence, UNDERTALE may well be DELTARUNE's "Chapter 0". In the Annoying Dog Developer Room within the Snowdin area, there's an unfinished Jigsaw puzzle which says : "(Finally, the pieces of the puzzle are coming together.) (The Jigsaw puzzle.)" That could be foreshadowing how DELTARUNE was (And still is) an incomplete project, and it certainly contains many puzzles which require us fans to figure out how every piece of lore connects to each other, if we want to figure out its secrets and literally see "the bigger picture".
Some of the things may just be Toby's style of writing, but stuff like ocean, three eyed Flowey and Dess whole deal look very intentional 🤔 Mad props for this video, even the disclaimers are really fun to watch! :D
Oh phew, lol I was so worried about them since I tried to format them so I can just insert them into videos from now on instead of making a fresh one every time.
Some thoughts on the weird ocean stuff, cause now that you pointed it out my brain is going in all sorts of directions with it without being able to draw an actual conclusion: - the fountains being called fountains and, once by ralsei, geysers, already makes a strong connection between the darkness and water. - there's a line from if you beat jevil by fighting him: "SOON, THE "QUEEN" RETURNS, AND HELL'S ROAR BUBBLES FROM THE DEPTHS..." the verb "bubbles" there sure does seem Sus now, huh? - if the dark worlds are somehow aquatic in nature, i can't help but think of gerson and alvin, two monsters based on tutrles (animals that live in the ocean and on land), and wonder if they were made turtles for the sake of a metaphor about them dwelling in both the dark and light worlds. there are certainly hints that gerson was involved in dark worlds in the past, and considering alvin is involved with the angel religion, and is apparently planning something with gerson's hammer... oh, and also, in undertale, one of the two food items gerson sells is "sea tea", "made with glowing marshwater". - while we're on the topic of suspicious ocean related characters, there's obviously onionsan, but also, clam girl. you know, the one who teased "suzy" in undertale, who can become a goner in the switch version with a line that teased deltarune's release, and who you get faked out for in chapter 2 if you fail to talk to onionsan in chapter 1. plus, aren't the Pipis freshwater clams or something? - and then, there's this bit from undertale: "humans are made mostly of water". which, yes, is just a true fact. but it's pointed out in comparison to monsters being made of magic. and considering everything here, with water maybe = darkness and dreams, especially with our pale blue friend kris... EDIT: i thought about one more thing overnight - the shadow crystal is specifically described as "moving like water" in kris's hand, another connection between the darkness and water. and when kris look through it in the light world on their own, they see through their hand for a moment. you know what's transparent? water. more emphasis on humans being made mostly of water? So, yeah, I'm gonna be going crazy over this now, thanks. ...the only thing about it is... if we're setting up for all the dark worlds to be underwater somehow, or something like that... I feel like there should be more concrete hints laying the groundwork for that by this point? Like, the main thing tipping us off to this is a sound file name, and the optional encounter with onionsan. There's very little in the dark worlds themselves that feels even vaguely aquatic themed. Maybe we're just missing it, or maybe Toby is holding off on it for whatever reason, but... The only real Theory I can draw from this rn is that the dark worlds are maybe meant to parallel (or be foreshadowed by) the trash dump in waterfall. An area full of discarded items, flowing down into an unknown depth. A place where at least one of those items (thanks to mad mew mew in ut) gets new life. A place Frisk falls into, much like how Kris initially falls into the dark world. idk what would actually be being said by such a parallel, though. Unless deltarune is literally taking place at the bottom of the waterfalls in the trash dump. Somehow. EDIT 2: Okay, I have one other idea for what the Point of this could be. The dark worlds are reflections of the light world. Both in how they're based on the light world locations, and with certain characters seeming to parallel light world characters (like Queen seemingly paralleling Noelle's mother in some ways). And, well, you can see reflections on the surface of bodies of water. But those reflections disguise the true natures of what's under those depths. You know how there's a weird dissonance between Queen saying the cyber world fountain was just made the day of chapter 2, but the characters seem to have a history older than that, including stuff like Tasque Manager somehow recognizing Jevil's items even though he's from a whole other dark world? Maybe the *versions* of the dark worlds we see, reflections of the light world maintained by the fountains, are new... but the "depths" of the dark worlds are both older and connected to each other, in ways we are so far unable to perceive or explore.
About the Dark World's being older than they should be, I have an idea Determination allows you to screw with the timeline. Dark Worlds being created with determination, well... Perhaps it's less of a Dark Universe and more of a Dark Timeline, crafted entirely from determination and darkness. Oh, and maybe the darkness is a metaphor for how over determination can be bad, unlike Undertale's positive message about it.
It's actually a theory of mine that Pipis are based on Clam-eggs from another world. Sure, this doesn't make them "the original" anymore, but salespeople like Spamton would definitly lie to everyone as long as nobody can possibly know it's a lie.
@@uboa8060 i personally interpret the content of the fountain being older than its opening is because the fountains are given meaning by the objects in the room which have history of being used and played with. I wonder how the other thing, "fountains being a reflection of the light world to us, so we can't actually see clearly beneath the surface", could be combined with my interpretation.
2:20 i doubt this was intentional but the flowey face when he says everyone is actually identical to the glyph for "kulupu" in the language toki pona, which can be translated as society, group, or just anything within that concept as it's a minimalist language. Pretty interesting
Something that I found out was that Susie had a unused sprite for when she falls, in the sprite Susie is bleeding, in Undertale’s Genocide route after killing sans he bleeds, theres also reason to believe that monsters arent made of magic, since in chapter 2 Queen says something about lightners creating dark worlds with determination which shows Kris, Susie, and Noelle, in Undertale monsters can hold little determination or can hold high amounts for a limited amount of time, this is because monsters are made of magic thus not being physical beings and can’t hold high amounts of it, but in Deltarune they can which means they are physical and not magic, there is more evidence to prove this since in Deltarune the stove is actually used unlike in Undertale which suggests monsters need to rely on technology because they don’t have magic, another thing is that in Undertale monsters turn into dust because they are made of magic similarly in Deltarune an animation of the Darkners turning into dust is there, this would also explain on why Ralsei dissapears when he no longer has health this is because Darkners are made of magic thus having similar properties to the monsters in Undertale, which would also explain on why Darkners don’t make Dark Worlds, its because their bodies don’t have high enough determination to make one
I believe monsters could always bleed. Undyne lacks an eye and it means she had an injury that couldn't heal. That means you can injure monsters without killing them. Something that works like blood without actually being blood isn't that farfetched. In battle we don't actually see the damage we inflict reflected on our enemies but that doesn't mean they aren't injured.
I believe that the thread that ties undertale and deltarune together is very, very thin but still important, considering that it is recommended that you play UT first before DR. It adds context to the characters and the reverse story elements. It's an alternate flipped universe that can stand on its own with its own themes and context, though.
Very good video as always! One thing that often gets criminally overlooked between these two games is the Delta Rune symbol itself. Interestingly, it seems to have two different prophecies tied to it across Undertale and Deltarune. There's some information that can be extrapolated from one that can be applied to the other, there's still some specific differences that clearly set them apart from each other. In Undertale, the prophecy is about an angel who will return from the surface to rescue monsterkind. This can refer to either the Pacifist run, where Asriel becomes resurrected and frees the monsters from the Underground by breaking the barrier, or to the No Mercy run, where Chara becomes resurrected and frees the monsters from their "mortal coil," releasing them from life itself by killing them and then destroying the whole world. Indeed, both Asriel and Chara fit the description of the angel, being characters who have returned from the surface (that is, they left the Underground and came back, eliminating Frisk from being the angel), which may point to the idea that the angel isn't so much a specific character as much as an archetype. Often in folktales or old medieval stories, characters are named after their role in the story (or dare I say, a role-playing game?) as they re-enact a position to illustrate a moral message. The angel is treated very differently in Deltarune's...er, Delta Rune prophecy. Instead of being the one who fulfills the prophecy, they seem to take the role of primary antagonist as the three heroes of legend banish the Angel's Heaven in order to save the world from an apocalyptic imbalance of Light and Dark. What's particularly odd is that the idea of the angel being a creature from above (the surface or the Light World) which seeks to release people from their mortal coil fits both Undertale's No Mercy Run AND Deltarune's Snowgrave Route, pointing further to the idea that Noelle may be the angel of Deltarune. This is on top of all the character referring to her as an angel in the Snowgrave route, too. Interestingly, she actually could become the angel in the prophecy if she went through with Queen's plans and created her own Dark World, which would be the Angel's Heaven. It would also cause an imbalance which would instigate the apocalypse detailed by the prophecy, and the heroes of light would have to stop her. However, if we consider that the angel is an archetype rather than a specific character, then Asriel could be the Angel once again, coming home from college with some kind of flaw that the heroes need to banish in the Dark World. After all, things that happen in the Dark World affect that which is in the Light World, and vice versa. Maybe he comes home as a different person who Kris doesn't like, or Kris's adventures with his friends have caused him to abandon his co-dependent relationship with his brother, and he needs to banish those ties so he can move on and become more independent. Maybe Kris gets jealous at Asriel's newest achievement which attracts the attention of the town, so he uses the Dark World to sabotage his victory. Just listing off ideas here. You were totally right when you said "anything" could happen at this point. All of this comes back to the Delta Rune symbol itself with the three triangles and the winged circle. These different elements have different meaning between the two games. In Undertale, the Dremurr family adopts the symbol as their royal crest, and Asriel himself transforms into a Delta Rune during his final phase, which confirms him as the angel who fulfills Undertale's prophecy. In Deltarune, the symbol is used on the rug in Kris's room within Ralsei's castle, with each other triangle colored to represent the three heroes: Kris, Susie, and Ralsei. The angel, however, remains uncolored, and so its identity remains obscured. Sorry for the length, but I hope this inspire more interesting discussions and theories in the future for everyone!
Interestingly the Angel seems to have different meaning in the Light World compared to the Dark World. Father Alvin (church and graveyard) refers to the angel the way you might a god, saying "May the angel smile upon you."
What is interessting is that in Undertale, while the angel and the downward pointing triangle have direct counterparts in the actual events of the game, the upward pointing triangles do not. It's just "the monsters", without real reason to specifically have two triangles. This issue is not present in deltarune because the triangles are directly set to correspond with the main trio. However, only in the dark world. In the Light World, the triangles seem to have no meaning at all, only the angel seems relevant. It poses some questions that we don't have the answer to quite yet.
I love this, well, almost all of it, i thought the whole "chara killed everyone" would stop after deltarune made it clear that we are the one possesing the vessels.
Disabilities aside. Some UA-camrs also might just think text-to-speech is a cool technique. I'm trying to say there are many, very different reasons for someone to use tts.
That's fair, but most comments are approaching it from the framing of "TTS limits the audience" or "sounds annoying." It's more intended as a reminder that "it's not always a stylistic choice." Although strangely a fair number of my viewers do seem to enjoy it? I can't even lol.
@@HalfBreadChaos Guess I didn't really take the time to read what others say, that's on me. But I definitely disagree with the comments. Sure there can be annoying sounding TTS but as long as you do a little bit of sound mastering before uploading nothing could sound so bad as to turn someone away. And yeah I enjoy it. I don't know why but it's just fine as it is. Maybe because Undertale/Deltarune character's voice bits sound like a very basic TTS and then it just fits in with the theme? But uh I guess my point was that whatever the reason for disliking TTS and leaving a comment about it is stupid and ignorant since it's such a minute detail. and sorry for the long block of text.
@@pehetutzmemecatboi6731 No worries. XD I'm terrible with sound mastering so, my TTS process tends to be mostly just "record," "fix the spacing" based with the occasional echo if there's a joke to be made about being in a tunnel or in The Fuuuutuuuuure. I keep forgetting I'm constantly getting new viewers who haven't seen every video, so when presented with my latest disclaimer they lack the epic Tale of the TTS that quietly develops in the background of each video.
@@HalfBreadChaos Toby himself uses text-to-speech to communicate with us, and spamton's lyrics sound like altered text-to-speech, so i would just have assumed you chose it aesthetically, to sound like a gaster follower 🤣
Phew the juxtaposition of dark world kris and home town chris sitting with "ocean" playing gave me chills. Love the cat cam, hopefully it gets the copyright bots off of your back.
The "original meaning was lost to time" thing also reminded me of how Deltarune was the original, but it eventually became Undertale until Chapter 1 of Deltarune came out and Toby spilled some of 'em beans.
I just realized the swan ride with Ralsei is a reference to the riverman! Since Ralsei wore a hood like them in chapter 1 it's like your riding with them again!
also I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the stone statue in undertale looks like Asriel with his hands behind his back, the same way Ralsie keeps them in chapter 2
That's a statue of Asriel Dremurr, a memorial to his tragic death. You can even see his hands setting down what would be Chara onto the bed of flowers. That's why it plays Asriel's theme when you give it the umbrella. Many people speculate that the statue of Asriel was originally located in the MTT resort atop the fountain, but was ripped out to make place for the Mettaton statue, explaining why the fountain is spilling onto the floor; the Mettaton statue wasn't meant to be there.
@@chrissysonicutdrloz Would be one heck of a plottwist if Ralsei is a titan that awakened early in a weaker form, but actively works towards the other ones not awakening because he knows they aren't as nice as him. It would certainly explain why a place full of titan-eyes is close to his kingdom and why he seems to know so much.
5:15 The fact that Sans says the antlered girl and her big sis implies that Noelle's sister doesn't have antlers and might not even be a reindeer or her mom since we never see them. What if they turn out to be the same species as Susie?
also i found a small one but in undertale when you are about to fight sans and flowey talks to you he tolds you after he became a flower asriel told him "there there everything will be okay" and then in deltarune after you beat spamtom ralsei tells you "there there everything will be okay" i dont know if its intentional or just a coincidence
Maybe this is stretching it but I recall Toby actually started development of Undertale in Andre Hussie's basement. Maybe this is somehow related to the basement stuff in deltarune, in a meta sort of way.
Imagine, finally we open the shelter, we feel a chill, we see nothing but darkness, hear nothing but deep otherworldly bellows, but then a light shines through... and it's just Andrew Hussie and the Annoying Dog vibing
I just wanted to say, if 'egg' in Wingdings means hands pointing right-down-down, then, maybe pressing right-down-down buttons somwehere in deltarune/Undertale triggers something.
I don't think that flowey describe Toriel near-death expirience. For me it seems more likely that it was his own expirience, when he woke up at the first time. Look at that text from genocide route: "My entire body had turned into a flower! "Mom! Dad! Somebody help me!" I called out. But nobody came. Eventually, the king found me, crying in the garden." Also this text from him, on the true pacifist route: "I'm so alone, I'm so afraid" It's all sounds "in line" with each other. (Intetesting enough that the almost the same text appears in deltarune text files, but it's unused lines. Like Toby intentionally left them here, for us to wonder who crying in this lines of code.)
your vids are always so thorough and unique, a lot of deltarune videos can start to feel the same. i also really appreciate the captions on your videos!
Speaking of how Dark Worlds might be related to death in some manner, there's a particularly curious aspect that's still up in the air in Deltarune, regarding death: Dusting & traditions around the deaths of monsters. In Undertale we know that monsters' bodies turn to dust after death, and tradition dictates spreading their dust on favored objects under the idea part of them will live on- which seems to be true, given that Alphys experimenting on flowers grown amidst Asriel's dust led to bringing part of him back in the form of Flowey. (and potentially what could've occurred for Chara to wind up within Frisk; I can't remember the details well enough to make a point on that, aside from how Asriel, after a True Pacifist run during what he feels to be his last bit of time to be himself, quietly stays by that initial flower patch where they fell, where they may be buried) Do monsters dust in Deltarune, leaving behind that essence of life? If a monster is exposed to enough determination after falling down, they can stave off death. If a monster is exposed to enough determination after dusting, they can be pulled back. If all that old dust from across time is spread throughout the world on various objects and it's exposed to enough determination, can it ignite that essence into a new energy, new form, new world? (I would say new life, but Darkners do seem to have some level of awareness even without a fountain's presence) I wouldn't see it as bringing back the dead, in this case (though if this is how Dark Worlds work, it means there is potential of interacting with someone who'd recently died). More like that essence has scattered and mixed together, finer than the amalgamates and their often-retained bits of individuality, becoming moreso its own thing without clear presence of any prior individual. Simply a matter of providing new form to something "without" it, or atleast making that form solid and accessible to those of the Light World, enough darkness that all that can be seen within it is the "true" form of that essence
this is gonna be kinda gross but in real life dust is 70% dead skin cells. The content of the fountain being older than its opening is because the fountains are given meaning by the objects in the room. When you use an object you get your dead skin cells on it thus spreading your "dust" or bits of yourself on the object. What if every fountain is just dust on objects someone used thats "brought back to life" with the fountain openers determination? like the reason why ralsei looks like asriel is because asriel used to go to the school and library and left his dust there and it got all mixed and jumbled into ralsei in the fountain
Thanks! Whenever I'm worried some piece of information will be boring or annoying I try to work extra hard to make it more fun or engaging in the hopes that people can be entertained instead of annoyed. In this case those disclaimers are destined to be recurring each video so I wanted to make some that were good enough to be used multiple times without being too boring.
12:25 I assumed that this “tree” was snowdrake’s mother, as the drakes have a sort of similar shape of a tree, and the “fruits” were the vegetoids that fused onto her eyes.
@@chrissysonicutdrloz UT. In DR, they talk about hearing a song that they think they have heard before. The ambiguity of the connection between UT and DR, plus the reference to music in both games, strikes me as possibly significant.
Hey. Idk where else to put this other than this theory video. I think it fits the most? In Undertale, you find what is assumed to be the Gaster room in the blue marshy area i forget what it’s called. That’s also where Temmie Village is. Temmie is fiercely protecting an egg there. In Deltarune, there is a man behind the tree in what is also assumed to be a Gaster room. Sometimes he gives you an egg. Maybe Gaster has interacted with Temmie In Undertale and given them an egg, too. It’s a weird detail but I just realized. I’m curious as to what the egg means, if anything, other than showing sans that you met Gaster by putting the egg into the carton in Sans’ store.
Also in the dating papyrus segment, theres the chart with the population on it, "Reel it in!", the weather, amongst other stuff, but then theres a random egg just labled "egg". This could also tie in papyrus to your theory.
Right. To be more precise, if I remember correctly, he had the ending of Deltarune revealed to him in a dream and woke up with the thought of absolutely having to make a game with that ending. And yes, that was way before Undertale. 2012, I believe. But this man keeps puzzling me - he says he's making a game around an ending revealed to him in a dream... And then answering a question about choices not affecting the ending he says "there's something more important than reaching the end". What the hell am I supposed to make of this?
Let's also not forget: he stopped working on Deltarune early in its production to make Undertale, instead. And now he recommends that we play UT before DR. It may be that there really are no connections between the two. Maybe Undertale is just, like, a key we can use to solve the puzzles and figure out what's going on in Deltarune. I still like to think there's some kind of connection, tho.
@@chrissysonicutdrloz Undertale being the "key" already works if we think in the context of Gaster. He's never mentioned in Deltarune at all, but there are numerous signs of his presence which one notices ONLY if they already spun a web of connections through Undertale. Wouldn't put it past Toby to extend this logic further.
@@abcdef-ms9mb Yeah, likely that's why he said to play UT first. Because in there, even though they are just random events, we learn about Gaster. And even though he is mentioned in DT, certain parts of the game, like the vessel making sequence, the Dark World in its entirety, and also the window titles if you played the game in windowed mode does tease on him, that's for sure.
Seam isn't outright confirmed to use they/them, that was just fan misinterpretation. But, since we don't know the gender, we might as well use they/them anyway.
11:13 as someone who's played ddlc ...that.. really... really reminds me of chara.. she sees a little bow and the check says "if you're cuter, monsters won't hit you ad hard" plus.... chara already comitted suicide in the games to try to free the monsters.. and *make everyone happy*
Another great analysis video! Hopefully your hard work & efforts are rewarded! Thanks for uploading! Also, I enjoy your "voice", even if not everyone can appreciate it.
XD thanks. When you spend multiple hours adding a disclaimer about that and still end up getting a "learn to talk" comment within 24 hours of upload lol. I appreciate the positivity though, I never realized how big an impact comments like yours have on a youtuber's Determination until I started making these.
Toby made a character who exists in both games at the same time, with the same memories, so we know using undertale for theory crafting about gaster is valid
@@gamertypeawesome it's weird to think of us as characters but that's the price of super meta games, the heart is itself a character, it's our influence on this world and it clearly remembers the events of Undertale, both through immediately understanding how determination(save points) works as well as the weird dialogue we have with sans. Sans' reaction also sounds like he remembers as well but Toby plays is vague to make it seem like he might just be living his life the way he does, instead of just constantly messing with us.
Hehe.. Gaster's rambling about darkness that keeps on growing makes so much more sense now, huh? Especially since Gaster is _definitely_ hinted at in Deltarune. And the three dots in Flowey's "everyone" symbol could be representory of Darkners, Monsters and Humans. (Also woh I got a Undertale ad before I watched this video.)
Considering there's now canonically a Noelle in the UNDERTALE Universe, that probably means there's also a Berdly, and maybe even some of the darkners considering Flowey is basically a Darker except with a Dark Fountain injected into him.
It annoys me so much when people say Undertale is unrelated to Deltarune. Now that I think of it. Unrelated is also an anagram of those two words, but that's not the point.
On the contrary, I think that's totally the point, and totally something Toby would do. Especially considering his comments that these are "different characters, with different lives," but "that doesn't mean there won't be any connections, though." He's trolling us.
Examples of predictions and references: At the graveyard, there are tombstones of the amalgamates (references). Clamgirl forshadowing a character named *Suzy* that we will meet soon. (foreshadowing)
Big question is: how many things that only appear to be references now might eventually turn out to be foreshadowing? Mettaon NEO seemed like a ridiculous joke- until Spamton came out wearing rainbow wings and playing Power of NEO and Dummy.
MAJOR MOTHER 3 SPOILERS: I have a different perspective about the Onion san scene that you might enjoy. Nearing the end of the game you can encounter the old bell ringer chained up. Interacting with him takes you into a long conversation about how this world was made. It was destroyed by the hands of it's people, reshaped to their likeness, then the people decided to erase their memories to keep from repeating their mistakes. Considering toby is a huge fan of the Earthbound series as a whole with several references from Mother 3 in Deltarune, I could potentially see this as an answer. Something akin to resetting timelines but people can bring fragments of memory over.
another thing that's interesting, spamton's phone attack gives him a shape similar to six souls flowey. haven't really thought about this one too hard yet, though, but neat food for thought.
this is the only theory channel in which i find new, interesting informations and inovative theories. keep up the good work ! hope your problems with youtube monetization get solved soon
The steam page for Deltarune calls it “The parallel story to Undertale.” This implies that its two separate storys going their own path, however they still are connected to each other with references and details like the ones in these video. I’ve always imagined Undertale like a dream world version of Deltarune. When you dream you take aspects of things that really happened and what people really look like but twist it to make something else however things you do in the dream will not affect the real world.
Maybe this whole "parallel story" thing can be more than what we think... There is a fancomic of Deltarune somewhere called the Paper Trail or something, I forgot exactly what it was. And in there, during the last few chapters, we find out the Knight was a Lightner (who is also Gaster) and he alongside other humans were banished to the bunker, by the monsters. And Gaster did experiments inside as well, which Kris was one of them. So, maybe the Bunker is actually more special than we think... Maybe humans did exist in Deltarune, but the bunker was their "Underground".
"Snow Angel" is actually just a pun in Deltarune (Noelle being assumed to be the Angel) and likely unrelated to Sans' comment. The "Blizzard" is also a reference to Papyrus' pre-battle scene. Most mentions of the "angel" in Undertale are also often referring to Asriel.
@@bredoslow8166 Yeah, the prophecy says that someone who saw the surface will arrive, and the Underground will become empty. The only characters we know who saw the surface are Asriel and Chara. And in Pacifist & Genocide routes respectively, these two characters empty the Underground. (Asriel uses 6 human souls and all monster souls to break the barrier, and Chara, awakened within Frisk during Genocide route, kills everyone in the Underground and destroys the world.)
@@suckerman7gm it says "arrive". Both asriel and chara have seen the surface but they've been in the underground, and therfore can't arrive. The protagonist however hasn't been in the underground* before, but CAN make the underground go empty
10:48 (Not so) Fun Fact: If you call Papyrus after befriending Undyne in that room she'll tell you that there are old shoes in the grass and to just pick them up because "thier owner isn't coming back" With the unused eco flower text it is easy to assume Undyne was the one to kill them
12:54 Even tho that entry specifies them standing up and walking around, I'd assume this is directly refering to the memoryheads. Because they share a lot of details with goners, the only diffrence actually seems to be that they are alive and Goners are ghosts. Actually, there is a detail which I wonder if it will ever properly come into play. Asriel tells us "Every time you die, your grip on the world slips away. Every time you die, your friends forget you a little more" about how Frisk uses Determination to cheat death. A connection is not directly confirmed, but it lines up with the implications from goner lore. So we can assume that simply losing connection with the world in an unsafe way is already enough to turn someone into a goner. What would stop a lightner who visits the dark world very often or is stuck in it from being affected by this concept? It would be an interessting thing if it does come up at some point.
@@nethowarrior3294 Yes they are? Their entire implication is "interdimensional ghost". That they are supposed to be seperate from the Memory Heads only further contradicts the notion that they are perfectly fine individuals who just like to be creepy and teleport around.
some things i've thought of, as i'm going through the video: •onion's "But... I can't remember... I can't... Can't remember, y'hear!" ...feels like it might have some connection to the theme of "Don't Forget" •snd_revival is the sound of the fountain being sealed? that's super interesting. wonder what relevance the ocean would have? actually, think about SAVE rules for a sec. the person with the highest determination in the world gets to save, right? if the dark world counts as "dying", wouldn't the person with the next-highest DT get to SAVE if kris left the light world? but then i realized...there's no save points in the light world. which is also pretty weird, and could have some relevance. maybe SAVE points don't just pop out of nowhere, they're directly related to your chances of death. •the three different clocks are interesting too, why are they all different? the only thing i notice (and it's a huge stretch anyways) is that the dark world closet's clock is pointing to 6 -> gaster number -> another "gaster is related to darkness" connection. though that makes me wonder, what form did the clock take in the dark world? not all inanimate objects turn into characters (the chalk & checkerboard, for instance), but the clock could've become a background element of the card kingdom or something. and what's even more weird about the closet is-what about the drawing of gerson??? that seems like it'd very obviously become some kind of character in the dark world, but we don't see it at all. kris doesn't even take it with them when they take the closet's contents into ralsei's castle town. and toby felt the need to confirm the identity of the person in the drawing during the anniversary livestream (it's gerson, _drawn by alvin_ , not a picture of alvin himself). that's definitely going to come into play at some point. anyways, nice video!
Hi I don’t want to cause an argument this isn’t what this is about, but I just thought I’d point out that I’m pretty sure the temmie and dragon photo is there bc the person that the character temmie is based off (temmie Chang) loved drawing dragons as a kid, she also did a lot of the art in undertale :)
Ooh neat! And also no worries, it was just an example. And also it's totally fine to disagree with me. XD As said in the disclaimer. I am very fallible human. I actually hard to re-word the opening because I made a huge mistake regarding the Switch disclaimer, and wasn't aware until a Patron told me.
Its probably a lot bigger than that. Temmie's whole cinematic universe (example: dweller's empty path) seems to revolve around dragons. Also yoki from that game is a doll in seams shop
I haven’t made it through ALL of the video yet but when you showed the picture of the Titans…I realized that spots on their design looked like the save points??
Another wonderful video, Chaos! Unfortunately I’m far too tired and busy to contribute anything here right now, but I thought I’d take a short break from my work to watch your new uploads. Your videos don’t get old, even for my deteriorating attention span!
consuming the "Dream" for the first time against asriel will prompt the line "Through DETERMINATION, the dream became true." Info on the item says "The goal of 'Determination.'" appears to be foreshadowing fountains, as they are created by coursing determination into the ground. and dark worlds are likened to dreams. furthermore, light and dark are equivalent to hopes and dreams in the legend.
You know, in heinsight, I wonder if the "two" people mentioned in Entry 17 are actually Kris and Suzie? I mean, it's not clear, but its implied through the funny skeleton man that some events in Deltarune at the very least have a parallel in Undertale, so I wonder if Entry 17 is actually FROM Deltarune originally.
why can you not like a video more than once? :( also yay thoust monarch hast returnst!!! i kept anxiously checking your channel to see if you'd uploaded. i can't believe i didn't discover you earlier :)
9:27 some months ago i was messing up with undertale's data file, and managed to implement the option to choose yes or no in a dialogue in the overworld where that wasn't supposed to happen. However, even if there wasn't supposed to be anything after selecting any option, when I pressed "Yes" in-game, that unused dialogue showed up for some unknown reason I was curious to see where was it supposed to show up, but if its unused i guess it will remain a mystery
@@HalfBreadChaos yeah, and the scariest part was that the text remained as its original color (black), making only possible to read the words "smell" because it was in red and "the pain" because it got out of the box
I'm sure someone else already pointed this out, but in the "most improved" NPC sprite with the number 1997, it's worth mentioning that 1997 is the number Spamton obsesses over for whatever reason.
0:53 You used the wrong "They're" on the second line on purpose, didn't you! Surely you didn't use "Their" properly and then immediately forget on the next line, right?
12:16 I’m pretty sure that watching man (the one that appears when you sleep) and he is hiding in the shaking fridge. We know he can disappear at any time due to him disappearing when you sleep in bed so that explains why the fridge is empty
Off the wall idea; the "two" mentioned in entry 17 are Asriel and Chara. Gaster, being the royal scientist, could been made a tutor of sorts to the royal heirs.
This reminds me of a fanart I saw where Kris dropped their pencil and it passed through this wave-like division and turned into a sword, with the castle town there too(maybe Ralsei down there as well?)
something ive actually noticed about the memory heads but never seen mentioned is their shape!! it may be just me, but each individual memory head looks very much like a smiling head speaking into a phone. i feel like, of all the amalgamates, they may actually have some of the most relevance to deltarune and the whole thing with the phone motif and. waves my hands around. i have a drawing somewhere outlining the head and phone shape of the memory heads in case it isnt as easily visible, but its something that really stuck out to me about them
Here's an interesting thing, no clue if itt has any lore importance though. In the 2nd chapter, the first room in the code is the goner maker room. It's identical to the 1st chapter but one of the dialogue prompts has flipped answers. When you end the sequence the normal intro to chapter 2 plays.
I'm pretty sure both River Person and Onion ARE talking about the Sound Test Room, as Onion mentions that it is only 'a piece of a song' that he is hearing, in reference to the fact that all/most of the songs in the ST Room are super short and incomplete.
To be clear, "5 Times Undertale Foreshadows Deltarune" is not intended as a comprehensive list of every time Undertale hints about something to be in Deltarune.
So when scripting, I cut out Clam-Girl foreshadowing Suzy, San's Workshop saying "Don't Forget," and many more things. This is intentional.
This video is one part a vehicle for delivering little discoveries and one part a suggestion not to remove Undertale from Deltarune discussion. Also I'm already getting comments irritated that certain points (like Flowey's eyes) aren't "foreshadowing" enough to deserve to be mentioned so...
There is no winning here.
I mean the Clam girl thing is probably the most overt instance of undertale foreshadowing deltarune by far and basically everyone already knows about it so it's probably not too worth including. Flowey's eye may be foreshadowing, or it may just be that toby/one of the artists drew the same thing twice and it's not meant to be related, but heres the thing: Theres so many connections between undertale and deltarune that even if you dismiss some of it as references, some of it as coincidence, and some of it as laziness/reuse of assets, theres still a mountain of evidence to suggest that Toby specifically wants us to think about the connections between the games, especially when you consider the overt statements like clam girl, the faq on the website, and the console warning. I mean we know that Toby was a little put off buy the insane popularity of undertale to say the least, he could have made a completely different game, or worked under a pseudonym and still been successful. But he didnt. he made deltarune, a game with so many undertale connections that people who play it are usually confused about if it's a direct sequel or not. There has to be a reason. Sorry for the rant lol.
Aw dude, disregard the gatekeepers and pedants as best you can. You make some of the most consistently comprehensive, utterly fascinating videos in the deltarune fanspace!
As an aside, have you given much thought to the festival said to happen in chapter 7? I took note that both Extra Bosses so far took place in typical carnival rides (A calliope, aka the merry-go-round, as well as Spamton NEO's Face Coaster Thing... I don't have much else to ponder beyond that, but i certainly find it interesting.
Take care and happy holidays!
@@junipersmith2856 is the Festival due to happen in chapter 7? Can you point me towards where that's mentioned? I could never find any mention of when it's supposed to happen, only "soon".
As soon as the difference between foreshadowing and referencing was mentioned, I realized that because this is an unfinished game with easter eggs, references, and foreshadowing... and knowing Toby's extensive experience in fandom... I bet he's intentionally playing around with keeping us guessing which is which. How else would he create mystery when dataminers and other very dedicated players will post their findings for all to see and discuss? Making an incredible amount of theory-worthy jigsaw puzzles and scrambling them all in the same box. Confusion over which is which is intended, but also a challenge for us to be courteous to eachother when disagreeing.
I have some critisism for your video... I had a hard time stoping the video to read the dense info-dumps in text, which are fine, but maybe slow a little while talking? Since you're using TTS that could be easier than with a voice... Your video is so dense with information that I need to stop the video, read, then go back to hear the whole thing, just give a silent pause or keep the text on the screen for longer...
I always assumed “photon readings negative” just meant pitch darkness, like negative and affirmative, but having the photon count actually be in the negatives and consuming all light around it seems very, very, interesting
Very very interesting you say?
The light puzzle in Chapter 2 specifically calls the lights "darkbulbs" that emit shadows, so that's probably as close as we're gonna get to negative photons.
It definitely means negative photons. Maybe they're photons with negative energy.
the door to the dark world literally emits darkness. I think photons would HAVE to be negative for that to work XD
you see, it's not just pitch black, that would make photon readings 0, not negative. So yeah I would say confirmed
"While human bodies are mostly made of water, monster bodies are made entirely of magic"
...i guess the ocean is getting a whole lot of relevance at one point
oh wait :o
imagine we get a water dark world
@@CapitanJorge24 **foreshadowing**
@@CapitanJorge24 imagine what onion-san looks like in the dark world
There aren't many humans in Deltarune. Maybe Onion will find his friends down there.
There are also some echo flowers dialogues in the wishing room of Undertale that may foreshadow Noelle and Dess. The dialogues is about the wish of two people wanting to see the real star, which interestingly enough, in the DECEMBER spelling puzzle of Deltarune, Noelle tell Kris that Dess promised to take Noelle somewhere with "shining light"
Holy shit, i never noticed that!
It never even occurred to me that some of the echo flowers could be Noelle and Dess.
Another things about Asgore, Rudy, Dess and Noelle is that in the Undertale winter alarm clock Asgore says that in Undertale Ruddinn was also sick and he had "fallen" and he talked about his daughters and he talked about the *younger one* (Noelle) you can find all the dialogue in the Undertale winter alarm clock wiki
I think the two sisters are actually shyren and shyra, since if it would be noelle and dess, they would have the lil dialogue blips, like how when undyne and flowey whispered into ones
@@Iamalwayswatchingyouall You mean Rudy. Rudinn is a type of minor enemy in the first dark world.
Imagine all the foreshadowing we just don’t understand yet
spore pfp seen
neuron activation
we just gotta remember in chapter 3 check out the basement it seems like its Toby's thing to have a screct boss hanging out there.
The secrets of [[Hyperlink Blocked]], hiding in the dark depths of the world.
@@Solibrae The Mystery man
chap 3 secret boss is chairiel
@@beezmanit2683 /YEET
It'd be a fun subversion if the secret boss is somewhere up high instead, but might not make sense depending on what the secret bosses are leading up to/meant to symbolize
quick thing i wanted to point out, in case you haven't found it yet: i was looking through the game's sound effects and found "snd_him_quick.ogg". it seems to be a snippet of the first part of ANOTHER HIM. this is what plays when you enter a dark world in chapter 2, so that's... interesting.
as for actual thoughts on the video. i don't think the ocean is something with kris, but rather something with dark worlds in general. onionsan says the song from the sea is coming from deep, deep below the water - and as far as we know, the darkness that forms dark worlds is deep below the earth. they always _fall_ into dark worlds.
when you make a dark fountain, you stab the earth and allow darkness to flow through into the light world. that means there has to be some kind of "darkness reserve" lying below the earth that is where fountains come from, right? an even deeper darkness than dark worlds... darker yet darker if you will? is the song onionsan hears coming from that deeper darkness? did kris hear part of the song when they fell into a dark world for the first time, and that's what the ocean sounds are?? is the song actually the choir sound that we hear in the track THE HOLY?? (and there's a similar choir sound when ralsei talks about the roaring, further associating choir and singing with darkness...)
anyway these are just some scattered thoughts haha. maybe i'm onto something, maybe not.
It's all good. Theory crafting these games is like having 50 puzzles dumped into one box.
So scattered thoughts are like finding pieces but not being sure which puzzle they're for.
Also, speaking of THE HOLY, did you know that its choir melody is the exact same as the strings in Flashback?
I have no clue what to do with this information, so I just write it under anything that mentions THE HOLY, because I can't come to any reasonable theories by myself on this one.
im stoopid, so can anyone tell me what a him sound file is?
@@_TheMushroomMan if you mean my comment, i'm talking about a sound effect named "him_quick". there's a track in deltarune named "ANOTHER HIM" and "him_quick" is a shortened version of it. (the title comes from "him", aka the name of gaster's theme in the undertale files.)
@@abcdef-ms9mb at the anniversary stream, toby played an unused version of the holy and said "I actually really like this song and wanted to use it to introduce a leitmotif, but I ended up using a more evocative song with a different motif. I'll try to make an excuse to use this song in the game somewhere." so that melody is probably important to something
3:42 The horned figure in the middle looks like the stone statue from Undertale. The one you give the umbrella
That's a statue of Asriel Dremurr, a memorial to his tragic death. You can even see his hands setting down what would be Chara onto the bed of flowers. That's why it plays Asriel's theme when you give it the umbrella.
Many people speculate that the statue of Asriel was originally located in the MTT resort atop the fountain, but was ripped out to make place for the Mettaton statue, explaining why the fountain is spilling onto the floor; the Mettaton statue wasn't meant to be there.
As for Delatrune, this could imply that Asriel is the Knight. An interesting final boss, for sure, especially given Kris's sibling rivalry with him.
@@josephb.4640 I wasn't talking about It's significance, i just said they look similar.
They have entirely diff horns
@@leedlelel2373 - They wouldn't have known how his horns would've grown, since he never reached adult age, and they never saw him at the village. They're the exact same as his mother's and father's. Plus, if it's not Asriel, who else is the statue supposed to depict?
@@josephb.4640 Im talking about the statue not asriel, i wasnt even replying to you.... But ok lol
That echo flower thing is super interesting. The fact that it only has that dialogue if you killed Toriel implies that it is meant to be Toriel after she died, or at least Flowey guessing what Toriel is experiencing. Flowey would probably know what it's like to be dead.
But that brings up the question, what is it like to be dead in undertale/deltarune? There are a few things that sound like an afterlife, and multiple references to a character being trapped in a dark void. Most importantly the unused text in the code, and the thing where spamton seemingly references it. This also seems to be connected to the amalgamates, how toriel says "it's so cold" and one amalgamate says "it's so cold", also amalgamates are monsters that came back from the dead. And maybe the gaster followers too? i don't remember what they all say. I think it also probably isn't the dark world exactly, or related to entry 17, mostly because the dark world has stuff and other characters in it.
There probably something here but i have no idea what it could be
You're totally right! Flowey would know what it's like to be dead since Asriel was probably dead before he got turned into a golden flower. He has experienced the darkness. And before that Gaster was doing research on the darkness. Dess (or another person) is trapped in the darkness. Question is: What is the darkness exactly?
We could speculate that it's some form of afterlife but maybe it's something else.
Im wondering whether there's a difference between the darkness that is mentioned in "Don't forget" (that darkness seems to specifically mean the dark worlds Kris and Susie visit) and the darkness where you can get trapped in.
If it were the same darkness it would mean that some people could enter it without being dead but some only enter it when dead or possibly die there and can't go back? I think to solve this puzzle we need to know what the line "There's a light inside your soul that's still shining in the cold, with the truth, the promise in our hearts" means!
For a long time I was thinking that the "cold" might have something to do with Noelle but with the Toriel, Amalgamates and Dess dialogue, Toby seems to use that word specifically when speaking of "the dark." Just some scattered thoughts, it's still a big mystery ^^'
this only brings more questions as to was state Berdly is in after being Snowgraved
I remember some things that the Gaster followers said but this one was curious: *talking about Gaster and that he died falling into his own creation* well i should stop talking *It's rude to talk about someone who's listening* i don't remember very much the exact same dialogue but i remember the: *It's rude to talk about someone who's listening* because that really scared me another Gaster follower said that he had a piece of Gaster and i remember Goner kid saying: *can you imagine a world where you don't exist?* Everything functions perfectly without you... The thought terrifies me...
Uh? An umbrella? But It's not raining... haha thanks it makes me feel a little better... *You should just forget about me.* And Asriel also said that when he breaks the barrier and says that without the souls he cannot maintain his form.
That's all i can remember for now.
@@schalomforever *When the light is running low and the shadows start to grow and the places that you know seem like fantasy* the dark worlds formed in the library and in the closet of Kris' school the places that they know
*There's a light inside your soul that's still shining in the cold* when we seal the fountains there's a dialogue that says: (It's like your very soul it's glowing) and our soul appeares and shines while it's sealing the fountain
*With the truth the promise in our hearts* maybe it's the promise we made with Ralsei of sealing the fountains and doing everything without fighting or that the truth in *our hearts* is that Kris is not the one in control the soul is
*Don't forget i'm with you in the dark* Maybe is that Susie and/or Ralsei they are the ones who are with you most of the time in the dark worlds.
@@Iamalwayswatchingyouall Good points, I actually forgot about the dialogue of the soul when sealing the fountains.
On the other hand I think that we don't know enough about the plot yet to make any probable assumptions about the Don't forget lyrics. They're so vague yet the meaning will probably be blatantly obvious once the other chapters come out. 🤷🏼♀️
Also I'm not sure, but if I remember correctly the Gaster Follower never explicitly said that he died. Only that he shattered across time and space and that he fell into his own creation. We don't know for sure if he's dead.
i love the cat cam, 12/10 content
wait, re: foreshadowing 1, so shawm is a titan? or has a titan eye?
catcam @620 awwww happy kitty squint
@11:08 KITTY REACH FOR CAMERA
got to 11:05 for reach
I was just looking at the cat for the entire video lol
Those are some "VERY VERY" spicy connections between both games. Since the Ancient Greek letter "Delta" is a triangle Δ, which has three sides, I too believe those things you mentioned which all come in threes could be important.
I think that UNDERTALE is not only an excellent experience in its own right, but that it is also part of greater puzzle that DELTARUNE is part of. When DELTARUNE is "complete", I don't think we'll ever look at UNDERTALE the same way again. In essence, UNDERTALE may well be DELTARUNE's "Chapter 0".
In the Annoying Dog Developer Room within the Snowdin area, there's an unfinished Jigsaw puzzle which says :
"(Finally, the pieces of the puzzle are coming together.) (The Jigsaw puzzle.)"
That could be foreshadowing how DELTARUNE was (And still is) an incomplete project, and it certainly contains many puzzles which require us fans to figure out how every piece of lore connects to each other, if we want to figure out its secrets and literally see "the bigger picture".
Half life 3 confirmed
∆
Maybe the 3 circles represented everyone as a whole, 1. Human 2. Monsters 3. Darkners
Ah yes, a truly unique triangle. Never seen another one with three sides /j
@@dianacraft_gaming Toby Fox was just ripping off the Triforce all along.
Just kidding! ; )
Some of the things may just be Toby's style of writing, but stuff like ocean, three eyed Flowey and Dess whole deal look very intentional 🤔
Mad props for this video, even the disclaimers are really fun to watch! :D
Oh phew, lol I was so worried about them since I tried to format them so I can just insert them into videos from now on instead of making a fresh one every time.
Some thoughts on the weird ocean stuff, cause now that you pointed it out my brain is going in all sorts of directions with it without being able to draw an actual conclusion:
- the fountains being called fountains and, once by ralsei, geysers, already makes a strong connection between the darkness and water.
- there's a line from if you beat jevil by fighting him: "SOON, THE "QUEEN" RETURNS, AND HELL'S ROAR BUBBLES FROM THE DEPTHS..." the verb "bubbles" there sure does seem Sus now, huh?
- if the dark worlds are somehow aquatic in nature, i can't help but think of gerson and alvin, two monsters based on tutrles (animals that live in the ocean and on land), and wonder if they were made turtles for the sake of a metaphor about them dwelling in both the dark and light worlds. there are certainly hints that gerson was involved in dark worlds in the past, and considering alvin is involved with the angel religion, and is apparently planning something with gerson's hammer... oh, and also, in undertale, one of the two food items gerson sells is "sea tea", "made with glowing marshwater".
- while we're on the topic of suspicious ocean related characters, there's obviously onionsan, but also, clam girl. you know, the one who teased "suzy" in undertale, who can become a goner in the switch version with a line that teased deltarune's release, and who you get faked out for in chapter 2 if you fail to talk to onionsan in chapter 1. plus, aren't the Pipis freshwater clams or something?
- and then, there's this bit from undertale: "humans are made mostly of water".
which, yes, is just a true fact. but it's pointed out in comparison to monsters being made of magic. and considering everything here, with water maybe = darkness and dreams, especially with our pale blue friend kris...
EDIT: i thought about one more thing overnight - the shadow crystal is specifically described as "moving like water" in kris's hand, another connection between the darkness and water. and when kris look through it in the light world on their own, they see through their hand for a moment. you know what's transparent? water. more emphasis on humans being made mostly of water?
So, yeah, I'm gonna be going crazy over this now, thanks.
...the only thing about it is... if we're setting up for all the dark worlds to be underwater somehow, or something like that... I feel like there should be more concrete hints laying the groundwork for that by this point? Like, the main thing tipping us off to this is a sound file name, and the optional encounter with onionsan. There's very little in the dark worlds themselves that feels even vaguely aquatic themed. Maybe we're just missing it, or maybe Toby is holding off on it for whatever reason, but...
The only real Theory I can draw from this rn is that the dark worlds are maybe meant to parallel (or be foreshadowed by) the trash dump in waterfall. An area full of discarded items, flowing down into an unknown depth. A place where at least one of those items (thanks to mad mew mew in ut) gets new life. A place Frisk falls into, much like how Kris initially falls into the dark world. idk what would actually be being said by such a parallel, though. Unless deltarune is literally taking place at the bottom of the waterfalls in the trash dump. Somehow.
EDIT 2: Okay, I have one other idea for what the Point of this could be. The dark worlds are reflections of the light world. Both in how they're based on the light world locations, and with certain characters seeming to parallel light world characters (like Queen seemingly paralleling Noelle's mother in some ways).
And, well, you can see reflections on the surface of bodies of water. But those reflections disguise the true natures of what's under those depths.
You know how there's a weird dissonance between Queen saying the cyber world fountain was just made the day of chapter 2, but the characters seem to have a history older than that, including stuff like Tasque Manager somehow recognizing Jevil's items even though he's from a whole other dark world?
Maybe the *versions* of the dark worlds we see, reflections of the light world maintained by the fountains, are new... but the "depths" of the dark worlds are both older and connected to each other, in ways we are so far unable to perceive or explore.
O_O Woah very good point. I'm going to have to reference this comment when I dive into that.
About the Dark World's being older than they should be, I have an idea
Determination allows you to screw with the timeline. Dark Worlds being created with determination, well... Perhaps it's less of a Dark Universe and more of a Dark Timeline, crafted entirely from determination and darkness.
Oh, and maybe the darkness is a metaphor for how over determination can be bad, unlike Undertale's positive message about it.
@@uboa8060 That already happened in the Genocide route tho, where determination is seen as something purely negative.
It's actually a theory of mine that Pipis are based on Clam-eggs from another world. Sure, this doesn't make them "the original" anymore, but salespeople like Spamton would definitly lie to everyone as long as nobody can possibly know it's a lie.
@@uboa8060 i personally interpret the content of the fountain being older than its opening is because the fountains are given meaning by the objects in the room which have history of being used and played with. I wonder how the other thing, "fountains being a reflection of the light world to us, so we can't actually see clearly beneath the surface", could be combined with my interpretation.
2:20 i doubt this was intentional but the flowey face when he says everyone is actually identical to the glyph for "kulupu" in the language toki pona, which can be translated as society, group, or just anything within that concept as it's a minimalist language. Pretty interesting
Something that I found out was that Susie had a unused sprite for when she falls, in the sprite Susie is bleeding, in Undertale’s Genocide route after killing sans he bleeds, theres also reason to believe that monsters arent made of magic, since in chapter 2 Queen says something about lightners creating dark worlds with determination which shows Kris, Susie, and Noelle, in Undertale monsters can hold little determination or can hold high amounts for a limited amount of time, this is because monsters are made of magic thus not being physical beings and can’t hold high amounts of it, but in Deltarune they can which means they are physical and not magic, there is more evidence to prove this since in Deltarune the stove is actually used unlike in Undertale which suggests monsters need to rely on technology because they don’t have magic, another thing is that in Undertale monsters turn into dust because they are made of magic similarly in Deltarune an animation of the Darkners turning into dust is there, this would also explain on why Ralsei dissapears when he no longer has health this is because Darkners are made of magic thus having similar properties to the monsters in Undertale, which would also explain on why Darkners don’t make Dark Worlds, its because their bodies don’t have high enough determination to make one
I believe monsters could always bleed.
Undyne lacks an eye and it means she had an injury that couldn't heal.
That means you can injure monsters without killing them.
Something that works like blood without actually being blood isn't that farfetched.
In battle we don't actually see the damage we inflict reflected on our enemies but that doesn't mean they aren't injured.
I believe that the thread that ties undertale and deltarune together is very, very thin but still important, considering that it is recommended that you play UT first before DR. It adds context to the characters and the reverse story elements. It's an alternate flipped universe that can stand on its own with its own themes and context, though.
Very good video as always!
One thing that often gets criminally overlooked between these two games is the Delta Rune symbol itself. Interestingly, it seems to have two different prophecies tied to it across Undertale and Deltarune. There's some information that can be extrapolated from one that can be applied to the other, there's still some specific differences that clearly set them apart from each other.
In Undertale, the prophecy is about an angel who will return from the surface to rescue monsterkind. This can refer to either the Pacifist run, where Asriel becomes resurrected and frees the monsters from the Underground by breaking the barrier, or to the No Mercy run, where Chara becomes resurrected and frees the monsters from their "mortal coil," releasing them from life itself by killing them and then destroying the whole world. Indeed, both Asriel and Chara fit the description of the angel, being characters who have returned from the surface (that is, they left the Underground and came back, eliminating Frisk from being the angel), which may point to the idea that the angel isn't so much a specific character as much as an archetype. Often in folktales or old medieval stories, characters are named after their role in the story (or dare I say, a role-playing game?) as they re-enact a position to illustrate a moral message.
The angel is treated very differently in Deltarune's...er, Delta Rune prophecy. Instead of being the one who fulfills the prophecy, they seem to take the role of primary antagonist as the three heroes of legend banish the Angel's Heaven in order to save the world from an apocalyptic imbalance of Light and Dark. What's particularly odd is that the idea of the angel being a creature from above (the surface or the Light World) which seeks to release people from their mortal coil fits both Undertale's No Mercy Run AND Deltarune's Snowgrave Route, pointing further to the idea that Noelle may be the angel of Deltarune. This is on top of all the character referring to her as an angel in the Snowgrave route, too. Interestingly, she actually could become the angel in the prophecy if she went through with Queen's plans and created her own Dark World, which would be the Angel's Heaven. It would also cause an imbalance which would instigate the apocalypse detailed by the prophecy, and the heroes of light would have to stop her. However, if we consider that the angel is an archetype rather than a specific character, then Asriel could be the Angel once again, coming home from college with some kind of flaw that the heroes need to banish in the Dark World. After all, things that happen in the Dark World affect that which is in the Light World, and vice versa. Maybe he comes home as a different person who Kris doesn't like, or Kris's adventures with his friends have caused him to abandon his co-dependent relationship with his brother, and he needs to banish those ties so he can move on and become more independent. Maybe Kris gets jealous at Asriel's newest achievement which attracts the attention of the town, so he uses the Dark World to sabotage his victory. Just listing off ideas here. You were totally right when you said "anything" could happen at this point.
All of this comes back to the Delta Rune symbol itself with the three triangles and the winged circle. These different elements have different meaning between the two games. In Undertale, the Dremurr family adopts the symbol as their royal crest, and Asriel himself transforms into a Delta Rune during his final phase, which confirms him as the angel who fulfills Undertale's prophecy. In Deltarune, the symbol is used on the rug in Kris's room within Ralsei's castle, with each other triangle colored to represent the three heroes: Kris, Susie, and Ralsei. The angel, however, remains uncolored, and so its identity remains obscured.
Sorry for the length, but I hope this inspire more interesting discussions and theories in the future for everyone!
Interestingly the Angel seems to have different meaning in the Light World compared to the Dark World. Father Alvin (church and graveyard) refers to the angel the way you might a god, saying "May the angel smile upon you."
the turtle even says it has a different meaning lost to time.
The angel part is actually colored white, which kind of matches with noelle's clothes in the dark world.
What is interessting is that in Undertale, while the angel and the downward pointing triangle have direct counterparts in the actual events of the game, the upward pointing triangles do not. It's just "the monsters", without real reason to specifically have two triangles. This issue is not present in deltarune because the triangles are directly set to correspond with the main trio.
However, only in the dark world. In the Light World, the triangles seem to have no meaning at all, only the angel seems relevant.
It poses some questions that we don't have the answer to quite yet.
I love this, well, almost all of it, i thought the whole "chara killed everyone" would stop after deltarune made it clear that we are the one possesing the vessels.
Disabilities aside. Some UA-camrs also might just think text-to-speech is a cool technique.
I'm trying to say there are many, very different reasons for someone to use tts.
That's fair, but most comments are approaching it from the framing of "TTS limits the audience" or "sounds annoying." It's more intended as a reminder that "it's not always a stylistic choice."
Although strangely a fair number of my viewers do seem to enjoy it? I can't even lol.
@@HalfBreadChaos Guess I didn't really take the time to read what others say, that's on me. But I definitely disagree with the comments.
Sure there can be annoying sounding TTS but as long as you do a little bit of sound mastering before uploading nothing could sound so bad as to turn someone away.
And yeah I enjoy it. I don't know why but it's just fine as it is. Maybe because Undertale/Deltarune character's voice bits sound like a very basic TTS and then it just fits in with the theme?
But uh I guess my point was that whatever the reason for disliking TTS and leaving a comment about it is stupid and ignorant since it's such a minute detail.
and sorry for the long block of text.
@@pehetutzmemecatboi6731 No worries. XD I'm terrible with sound mastering so, my TTS process tends to be mostly just "record," "fix the spacing" based with the occasional echo if there's a joke to be made about being in a tunnel or in The Fuuuutuuuuure.
I keep forgetting I'm constantly getting new viewers who haven't seen every video, so when presented with my latest disclaimer they lack the epic Tale of the TTS that quietly develops in the background of each video.
@@HalfBreadChaos Toby himself uses text-to-speech to communicate with us, and spamton's lyrics sound like altered text-to-speech, so i would just have assumed you chose it aesthetically, to sound like a gaster follower 🤣
Phew the juxtaposition of dark world kris and home town chris sitting with "ocean" playing gave me chills. Love the cat cam, hopefully it gets the copyright bots off of your back.
When?
When?
Another thing that you missed is that gerson in undertale literally says "That's the Delta Rune, the emblem of our kingdom"
The "original meaning was lost to time" thing also reminded me of how Deltarune was the original, but it eventually became Undertale until Chapter 1 of Deltarune came out and Toby spilled some of 'em beans.
@@Estra_Estra Knowing the fact that the idea of Deltarune came from a dream Toby had 10 years ago, explains everything.
@@suckerman7gm Which yeah, Gerson also hints at in that one bench. Gerson's the first Deltarune lore theorist apparently. lol
I just realized the swan ride with Ralsei is a reference to the riverman! Since Ralsei wore a hood like them in chapter 1 it's like your riding with them again!
toby said ralsei looking like river person not was intended
@@RaphielShiraha64oh ok.
That was in the deltarune stream right?
also I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the stone statue in undertale looks like Asriel with his hands behind his back, the same way Ralsie keeps them in chapter 2
That's a statue of Asriel Dremurr, a memorial to his tragic death. You can even see his hands setting down what would be Chara onto the bed of flowers. That's why it plays Asriel's theme when you give it the umbrella.
Many people speculate that the statue of Asriel was originally located in the MTT resort atop the fountain, but was ripped out to make place for the Mettaton statue, explaining why the fountain is spilling onto the floor; the Mettaton statue wasn't meant to be there.
It feels somewhat ominous that there's an asriel statue in UT and ralsei is the only darkner that doesn't turn into a statue in dr
On Tumblr, the popular theory is that the Memory statue looks like one of the Titans in The Roaring propehcy.
@@chrissysonicutdrloz Would be one heck of a plottwist if Ralsei is a titan that awakened early in a weaker form, but actively works towards the other ones not awakening because he knows they aren't as nice as him. It would certainly explain why a place full of titan-eyes is close to his kingdom and why he seems to know so much.
@@lpfan4491 i like this theory
5:15 The fact that Sans says the antlered girl and her big sis implies that Noelle's sister doesn't have antlers and might not even be a reindeer or her mom since we never see them. What if they turn out to be the same species as Susie?
Why would they be the same species as Susie?
@Spamton G Spamton™ Why would she be attracted to someone like her sister???
@@nolife5268 Freud frantically writing this down:
That's pretty ridiculous
also i found a small one but in undertale when you are about to fight sans and flowey talks to you he tolds you after he became a flower asriel told him "there there everything will be okay" and then in deltarune after you beat spamtom ralsei tells you "there there everything will be okay" i dont know if its intentional or just a coincidence
I think you mean Asgore (The King) said that, not Asriel? Just checking?
Maybe this is stretching it but I recall Toby actually started development of Undertale in Andre Hussie's basement. Maybe this is somehow related to the basement stuff in deltarune, in a meta sort of way.
Imagine, finally we open the shelter, we feel a chill, we see nothing but darkness, hear nothing but deep otherworldly bellows, but then a light shines through... and it's just Andrew Hussie and the Annoying Dog vibing
this is the first deltarune video in A WHILE that has showed me things I haven’t already seen. good job!! this was a great vid!!
I just wanted to say, if 'egg' in Wingdings means hands pointing right-down-down, then, maybe pressing right-down-down buttons somwehere in deltarune/Undertale triggers something.
Actually, the "right-down-down" pattern is also how a Knight piece moves in chess.
@@suckerman7gm :-O :-O :-O
I don't think that flowey describe Toriel near-death expirience. For me it seems more likely that it was his own expirience, when he woke up at the first time. Look at that text from genocide route:
"My entire body had turned into a flower!
"Mom! Dad! Somebody help me!" I called out.
But nobody came.
Eventually, the king found me, crying in the garden."
Also this text from him, on the true pacifist route:
"I'm so alone,
I'm so afraid"
It's all sounds "in line" with each other.
(Intetesting enough that the almost the same text appears in deltarune text files, but it's unused lines. Like Toby intentionally left them here, for us to wonder who crying in this lines of code.)
This is possible, but he's using Toriel's txt sound, and if you DIDN'T kill Toriel he says something else in her voice.
@@HalfBreadChaos, i mean, for me it sounds like he just extrapolate his own experience, to something else. But of course it can be taken other way.
@@ksjejkddgcci4370 Fair enough.
lol "flowey is projecting" maybe? but he's clearly playing toriel there
your vids are always so thorough and unique, a lot of deltarune videos can start to feel the same. i also really appreciate the captions on your videos!
Thanks! I try to make the sort of stuff I'd want to see, and I like captions and other ease-of-access features.
One of my favorite headcannons:
U know how lancer just slides around? Heelys
6:25 "why dont you sing with me" is accounted for. its a hint to sing with shyren when you encounter her in waterfall
oh wait i guess i was wrong. i was looking it up and it seems the river person says another more obvious hint for the shyren encounter
Speaking of how Dark Worlds might be related to death in some manner, there's a particularly curious aspect that's still up in the air in Deltarune, regarding death: Dusting & traditions around the deaths of monsters. In Undertale we know that monsters' bodies turn to dust after death, and tradition dictates spreading their dust on favored objects under the idea part of them will live on- which seems to be true, given that Alphys experimenting on flowers grown amidst Asriel's dust led to bringing part of him back in the form of Flowey. (and potentially what could've occurred for Chara to wind up within Frisk; I can't remember the details well enough to make a point on that, aside from how Asriel, after a True Pacifist run during what he feels to be his last bit of time to be himself, quietly stays by that initial flower patch where they fell, where they may be buried)
Do monsters dust in Deltarune, leaving behind that essence of life? If a monster is exposed to enough determination after falling down, they can stave off death. If a monster is exposed to enough determination after dusting, they can be pulled back. If all that old dust from across time is spread throughout the world on various objects and it's exposed to enough determination, can it ignite that essence into a new energy, new form, new world? (I would say new life, but Darkners do seem to have some level of awareness even without a fountain's presence)
I wouldn't see it as bringing back the dead, in this case (though if this is how Dark Worlds work, it means there is potential of interacting with someone who'd recently died). More like that essence has scattered and mixed together, finer than the amalgamates and their often-retained bits of individuality, becoming moreso its own thing without clear presence of any prior individual. Simply a matter of providing new form to something "without" it, or atleast making that form solid and accessible to those of the Light World, enough darkness that all that can be seen within it is the "true" form of that essence
this is gonna be kinda gross but in real life dust is 70% dead skin cells. The content of the fountain being older than its opening is because the fountains are given meaning by the objects in the room. When you use an object you get your dead skin cells on it thus spreading your "dust" or bits of yourself on the object. What if every fountain is just dust on objects someone used thats "brought back to life" with the fountain openers determination? like the reason why ralsei looks like asriel is because asriel used to go to the school and library and left his dust there and it got all mixed and jumbled into ralsei in the fountain
kinda unrelated but the disclaimer section actually felt genuine and relevant. very well done. disclaimers usually feel artificial lol
Thanks! Whenever I'm worried some piece of information will be boring or annoying I try to work extra hard to make it more fun or engaging in the hopes that people can be entertained instead of annoyed.
In this case those disclaimers are destined to be recurring each video so I wanted to make some that were good enough to be used multiple times without being too boring.
@@HalfBreadChaos god this is such a good video it’s so rich in content the quality is insane
While not related exactly to the video, I wanted to show my appreciation for the captions. Thanks!
12:25 I assumed that this “tree” was snowdrake’s mother, as the drakes have a sort of similar shape of a tree, and the “fruits” were the vegetoids that fused onto her eyes.
Speaking of Onion and music, if you backtrack to talk to them again, they talk about starting a band. I wonder if that is significant.
in UT or DR? I remember the Red Hot Chibi Peppers in UT, but nothing like that in DR.
@@chrissysonicutdrloz UT. In DR, they talk about hearing a song that they think they have heard before. The ambiguity of the connection between UT and DR, plus the reference to music in both games, strikes me as possibly significant.
Hey. Idk where else to put this other than this theory video. I think it fits the most?
In Undertale, you find what is assumed to be the Gaster room in the blue marshy area i forget what it’s called. That’s also where Temmie Village is. Temmie is fiercely protecting an egg there.
In Deltarune, there is a man behind the tree in what is also assumed to be a Gaster room. Sometimes he gives you an egg.
Maybe Gaster has interacted with Temmie In Undertale and given them an egg, too.
It’s a weird detail but I just realized.
I’m curious as to what the egg means, if anything, other than showing sans that you met Gaster by putting the egg into the carton in Sans’ store.
Also in the dating papyrus segment, theres the chart with the population on it, "Reel it in!", the weather, amongst other stuff, but then theres a random egg just labled "egg". This could also tie in papyrus to your theory.
IIRC Toby had a dream about deltarune before making undertale, right? I've seen that mentioned a few times.
Right. To be more precise, if I remember correctly, he had the ending of Deltarune revealed to him in a dream and woke up with the thought of absolutely having to make a game with that ending.
And yes, that was way before Undertale. 2012, I believe.
But this man keeps puzzling me - he says he's making a game around an ending revealed to him in a dream... And then answering a question about choices not affecting the ending he says "there's something more important than reaching the end". What the hell am I supposed to make of this?
@@abcdef-ms9mb befriending everyone
Let's also not forget: he stopped working on Deltarune early in its production to make Undertale, instead. And now he recommends that we play UT before DR.
It may be that there really are no connections between the two. Maybe Undertale is just, like, a key we can use to solve the puzzles and figure out what's going on in Deltarune.
I still like to think there's some kind of connection, tho.
@@chrissysonicutdrloz Undertale being the "key" already works if we think in the context of Gaster.
He's never mentioned in Deltarune at all, but there are numerous signs of his presence which one notices ONLY if they already spun a web of connections through Undertale.
Wouldn't put it past Toby to extend this logic further.
@@abcdef-ms9mb Yeah, likely that's why he said to play UT first. Because in there, even though they are just random events, we learn about Gaster.
And even though he is mentioned in DT, certain parts of the game, like the vessel making sequence, the Dark World in its entirety, and also the window titles if you played the game in windowed mode does tease on him, that's for sure.
Undertale and Deltarune got enough secrets/hidden bits to fill an entire book
One magical day, I will use Seam's "they/them" pronouns. The thought of this fills me with Determination.
Determination
nah its not that important
How about learning how to talk instead of using an unbearable tts that rots my cochlea
Seam isn't outright confirmed to use they/them, that was just fan misinterpretation. But, since we don't know the gender, we might as well use they/them anyway.
@@jailun6758 ua-cam.com/video/ng2QhLhOCEM/v-deo.html
4:50 Most improved *1997*??! Hmmmm.... what is with that year?!
8:21 just wanted to say kris and susie will sit down whether or not you ever spoke to onion-san or not :)
No
This is correct. It was too late to fix the voice over by the time I realized. XD
@@HalfBreadChaos lol no worries!! ty for the vid!
4:58 Sans confirmed to have either seen Snowgrave or have survived it (probably by dodging)
Wouldn’t doubt it
11:13
as someone who's played ddlc
...that.. really... really reminds me of chara..
she sees a little bow and the check says "if you're cuter, monsters won't hit you ad hard"
plus.... chara already comitted suicide in the games to try to free the monsters.. and *make everyone happy*
How is ddlc related
"The antlered girl"? I always assumed it was Gyftrot, but reading it now makes me think it can be some kind of foreshadowing.
i fuckin love the little interaction between berdly and jevil at the beggining its so cute
Another great analysis video! Hopefully your hard work & efforts are rewarded! Thanks for uploading!
Also, I enjoy your "voice", even if not everyone can appreciate it.
XD thanks. When you spend multiple hours adding a disclaimer about that and still end up getting a "learn to talk" comment within 24 hours of upload lol.
I appreciate the positivity though, I never realized how big an impact comments like yours have on a youtuber's Determination until I started making these.
@@HalfBreadChaos Glad to know you appreciate it. Rooting for you!
Oh hype for some more theories I just played through both chapters again
Toby made a character who exists in both games at the same time, with the same memories, so we know using undertale for theory crafting about gaster is valid
that hasn't been confirmed at all???
@@gamertypeawesome it's us! The heart recognizes sans
@@funtimegamer8733 oh
@@gamertypeawesome it's weird to think of us as characters but that's the price of super meta games, the heart is itself a character, it's our influence on this world and it clearly remembers the events of Undertale, both through immediately understanding how determination(save points) works as well as the weird dialogue we have with sans. Sans' reaction also sounds like he remembers as well but Toby plays is vague to make it seem like he might just be living his life the way he does, instead of just constantly messing with us.
8:22 HOW DID I HAVE NO IDEA THIS HAPPENS UNTIL NOW
Hehe.. Gaster's rambling about darkness that keeps on growing makes so much more sense now, huh? Especially since Gaster is _definitely_ hinted at in Deltarune.
And the three dots in Flowey's "everyone" symbol could be representory of Darkners, Monsters and Humans.
(Also woh I got a Undertale ad before I watched this video.)
I think that the pointy nose face on the left side of memoryhead resembles Spamton.
Considering there's now canonically a Noelle in the UNDERTALE Universe, that probably means there's also a Berdly, and maybe even some of the darkners considering Flowey is basically a Darker except with a Dark Fountain injected into him.
i love the cat cam
also, very smat idea
It annoys me so much when people say Undertale is unrelated to Deltarune. Now that I think of it. Unrelated is also an anagram of those two words, but that's not the point.
On the contrary, I think that's totally the point, and totally something Toby would do. Especially considering his comments that these are "different characters, with different lives," but "that doesn't mean there won't be any connections, though." He's trolling us.
@@chrissysonicutdrloz But what if he wanted us to think that and it actually is related?
Examples of predictions and references:
At the graveyard, there are tombstones of the amalgamates (references).
Clamgirl forshadowing a character named *Suzy* that we will meet soon. (foreshadowing)
Big question is: how many things that only appear to be references now might eventually turn out to be foreshadowing?
Mettaon NEO seemed like a ridiculous joke- until Spamton came out wearing rainbow wings and playing Power of NEO and Dummy.
@@chrissysonicutdrloz spamton neo actually make sense, since his body was draw by mettaton (ghost) on the light world
MAJOR MOTHER 3 SPOILERS:
I have a different perspective about the Onion san scene that you might enjoy. Nearing the end of the game you can encounter the old bell ringer chained up. Interacting with him takes you into a long conversation about how this world was made. It was destroyed by the hands of it's people, reshaped to their likeness, then the people decided to erase their memories to keep from repeating their mistakes. Considering toby is a huge fan of the Earthbound series as a whole with several references from Mother 3 in Deltarune, I could potentially see this as an answer. Something akin to resetting timelines but people can bring fragments of memory over.
Wow! I hadn't made that connection... Thanks!
Great video! Also if the Sans is a darkener theory is true, since he is a skeleton, that may deepen the connection between the dark world and death
I mean,dark world temmie summoning a _fucking dragon_ to save us would he pretty cool.
another thing that's interesting, spamton's phone attack gives him a shape similar to six souls flowey. haven't really thought about this one too hard yet, though, but neat food for thought.
this is the only theory channel in which i find new, interesting informations and inovative theories. keep up the good work ! hope your problems with youtube monetization get solved soon
The steam page for Deltarune calls it “The parallel story to Undertale.” This implies that its two separate storys going their own path, however they still are connected to each other with references and details like the ones in these video.
I’ve always imagined Undertale like a dream world version of Deltarune. When you dream you take aspects of things that really happened and what people really look like but twist it to make something else however things you do in the dream will not affect the real world.
Maybe this whole "parallel story" thing can be more than what we think...
There is a fancomic of Deltarune somewhere called the Paper Trail or something, I forgot exactly what it was. And in there, during the last few chapters, we find out the Knight was a Lightner (who is also Gaster) and he alongside other humans were banished to the bunker, by the monsters. And Gaster did experiments inside as well, which Kris was one of them.
So, maybe the Bunker is actually more special than we think... Maybe humans did exist in Deltarune, but the bunker was their "Underground".
My man has no bounds, he used ghouliday as background music and I remember hearing meat factory at another time
Endogeny gross noises too huh?
"Snow Angel" is actually just a pun in Deltarune (Noelle being assumed to be the Angel) and likely unrelated to Sans' comment. The "Blizzard" is also a reference to Papyrus' pre-battle scene.
Most mentions of the "angel" in Undertale are also often referring to Asriel.
or chara
@@RaphielShiraha64 where is chara called the angel?
@@bredoslow8166 They are not, but the prophecy is clearly meant to apply to both.
@@bredoslow8166 Yeah, the prophecy says that someone who saw the surface will arrive, and the Underground will become empty.
The only characters we know who saw the surface are Asriel and Chara. And in Pacifist & Genocide routes respectively, these two characters empty the Underground. (Asriel uses 6 human souls and all monster souls to break the barrier, and Chara, awakened within Frisk during Genocide route, kills everyone in the Underground and destroys the world.)
@@suckerman7gm it says "arrive". Both asriel and chara have seen the surface but they've been in the underground, and therfore can't arrive. The protagonist however hasn't been in the underground* before, but CAN make the underground go empty
These videos are PURE GOLD! I love watching these! Can’t wait to watch more! :D
10:48
(Not so) Fun Fact:
If you call Papyrus after befriending Undyne in that room she'll tell you that there are old shoes in the grass and to just pick them up because "thier owner isn't coming back"
With the unused eco flower text it is easy to assume Undyne was the one to kill them
axis the undying when
12:54 Even tho that entry specifies them standing up and walking around, I'd assume this is directly refering to the memoryheads. Because they share a lot of details with goners, the only diffrence actually seems to be that they are alive and Goners are ghosts.
Actually, there is a detail which I wonder if it will ever properly come into play. Asriel tells us "Every time you die, your grip on the world slips away. Every time you die, your friends forget you a little more" about how Frisk uses Determination to cheat death. A connection is not directly confirmed, but it lines up with the implications from goner lore. So we can assume that simply losing connection with the world in an unsafe way is already enough to turn someone into a goner.
What would stop a lightner who visits the dark world very often or is stuck in it from being affected by this concept? It would be an interessting thing if it does come up at some point.
Goners aren't dead, though...?
@@nethowarrior3294 Yes they are? Their entire implication is "interdimensional ghost".
That they are supposed to be seperate from the Memory Heads only further contradicts the notion that they are perfectly fine individuals who just like to be creepy and teleport around.
some things i've thought of, as i'm going through the video:
•onion's "But... I can't remember... I can't... Can't remember, y'hear!"
...feels like it might have some connection to the theme of "Don't Forget"
•snd_revival is the sound of the fountain being sealed? that's super interesting. wonder what relevance the ocean would have?
actually, think about SAVE rules for a sec. the person with the highest determination in the world gets to save, right? if the dark world counts as "dying", wouldn't the person with the next-highest DT get to SAVE if kris left the light world? but then i realized...there's no save points in the light world.
which is also pretty weird, and could have some relevance. maybe SAVE points don't just pop out of nowhere, they're directly related to your chances of death.
•the three different clocks are interesting too, why are they all different? the only thing i notice (and it's a huge stretch anyways) is that the dark world closet's clock is pointing to 6 -> gaster number -> another "gaster is related to darkness" connection.
though that makes me wonder, what form did the clock take in the dark world? not all inanimate objects turn into characters (the chalk & checkerboard, for instance), but the clock could've become a background element of the card kingdom or something.
and what's even more weird about the closet is-what about the drawing of gerson??? that seems like it'd very obviously become some kind of character in the dark world, but we don't see it at all. kris doesn't even take it with them when they take the closet's contents into ralsei's castle town. and toby felt the need to confirm the identity of the person in the drawing during the anniversary livestream (it's gerson, _drawn by alvin_ , not a picture of alvin himself). that's definitely going to come into play at some point.
anyways, nice video!
3:53
Fun fact : snow grave = wrong save
Same letters/charecters
4:06 this could be a reference too how furbys sound demonic as hell from time too time.
Hi I don’t want to cause an argument this isn’t what this is about, but I just thought I’d point out that I’m pretty sure the temmie and dragon photo is there bc the person that the character temmie is based off (temmie Chang) loved drawing dragons as a kid, she also did a lot of the art in undertale :)
Ooh neat! And also no worries, it was just an example.
And also it's totally fine to disagree with me. XD As said in the disclaimer. I am very fallible human. I actually hard to re-word the opening because I made a huge mistake regarding the Switch disclaimer, and wasn't aware until a Patron told me.
Its probably a lot bigger than that. Temmie's whole cinematic universe (example: dweller's empty path) seems to revolve around dragons.
Also yoki from that game is a doll in seams shop
I haven’t made it through ALL of the video yet but when you showed the picture of the Titans…I realized that spots on their design looked like the save points??
Huh... good point!
Another wonderful video, Chaos! Unfortunately I’m far too tired and busy to contribute anything here right now, but I thought I’d take a short break from my work to watch your new uploads. Your videos don’t get old, even for my deteriorating attention span!
XD Ty. Unintended downside, the massive wave of comments makes it harder to find the comments of older viewers such as yourself.
@@HalfBreadChaos Understandable! No matter what, I’ll still leave comments, if only to help your videos’ UA-cam stats.
I really trust that Gaster created the Deltarune world!
Wait so your physical condition that doesn't let you do facecam is that you're a cat?
Yes you figured it out. My meows won't translate well to words.
@@HalfBreadChaos is Element 6, confirmed.
consuming the "Dream" for the first time against asriel will prompt the line "Through DETERMINATION, the dream became true." Info on the item says "The goal of 'Determination.'"
appears to be foreshadowing fountains, as they are created by coursing determination into the ground. and dark worlds are likened to dreams. furthermore, light and dark are equivalent to hopes and dreams in the legend.
the only time dark world is linked to dreams is on chapter 2, in chapter 1 susie and kris just appear in the unused classroom
@@RaphielShiraha64 Susie questions if it was a dream, implying that they woke up in some way.
@@lpfan4491 questioning it was a dream not mean they were sleeping though but fair point
Great video all around, really great connections to undertale and a lot of thought provoking ideas in there. Thanks for making the video!
You know, in heinsight, I wonder if the "two" people mentioned in Entry 17 are actually Kris and Suzie? I mean, it's not clear, but its implied through the funny skeleton man that some events in Deltarune at the very least have a parallel in Undertale, so I wonder if Entry 17 is actually FROM Deltarune originally.
why can you not like a video more than once? :(
also yay thoust monarch hast returnst!!! i kept anxiously checking your channel to see if you'd uploaded. i can't believe i didn't discover you earlier :)
nice pfp
@@RichConnerGMN why hello again. what is it, the 4th time? i even changed it :)
9:27 some months ago i was messing up with undertale's data file, and managed to implement the option to choose yes or no in a dialogue in the overworld where that wasn't supposed to happen. However, even if there wasn't supposed to be anything after selecting any option, when I pressed "Yes" in-game, that unused dialogue showed up for some unknown reason
I was curious to see where was it supposed to show up, but if its unused i guess it will remain a mystery
holy crap that sounds terrifying
@@HalfBreadChaos yeah, and the scariest part was that the text remained as its original color (black), making only possible to read the words "smell" because it was in red and "the pain" because it got out of the box
Can't wait to watch this after I finish playing :) Thanks again for stopping by!
No problem, thanks for the support!
I choose to believe that rather than human you are, in fact, the cat, and that is a normal webcam setup of you recording
I'm sure someone else already pointed this out, but in the "most improved" NPC sprite with the number 1997, it's worth mentioning that 1997 is the number Spamton obsesses over for whatever reason.
Actually the year 1997 is when spam ads could be blocked, and also an ad to a drink brand named Big Shot.
2:41
Fidget spinner
the "I just want everyone to be happy" reminds me of Queen's line
"I Just Want To Make Everyone Smile"
i really dont think flowey's face was foreshadowing lol, it just feels it was done to scare you
I can't stop looking at the cat
0:53 You used the wrong "They're" on the second line on purpose, didn't you! Surely you didn't use "Their" properly and then immediately forget on the next line, right?
Errors that people point out mean comments witch means engagement and leads to more viewers
Aw crap I finally made a spelling error on a non-Spamton part. XD
The ''ocean''maybe deltarune's way to symbolize determination like the wind in Undertale
or the darkness is coming from the core of the world, i mean kris did had to hit the floor to make a dark fountain
@@RaphielShiraha64 very very intresting
the moment you mentioned "ableism" i clicked off the video
Ah? Glad to hear the disclaimers are working then.
@@HalfBreadChaos not even that, i have ADHD and even i found the mention of it stupid
@@Random_Dude999 r/asablackman
@@BlueAvocado3 r/gooncaves you troon
14:03
"a bunch of smiling people you don't recognize"
"don't forget"
12:16 I’m pretty sure that watching man (the one that appears when you sleep) and he is hiding in the shaking fridge. We know he can disappear at any time due to him disappearing when you sleep in bed so that explains why the fridge is empty
your channel has inspired me to make a notebook of all the weird bogus in deltarune/undertale, and to try my hardest to piece it all together myself
Off the wall idea; the "two" mentioned in entry 17 are Asriel and Chara. Gaster, being the royal scientist, could been made a tutor of sorts to the royal heirs.
This reminds me of a fanart I saw where Kris dropped their pencil and it passed through this wave-like division and turned into a sword, with the castle town there too(maybe Ralsei down there as well?)
something ive actually noticed about the memory heads but never seen mentioned is their shape!! it may be just me, but each individual memory head looks very much like a smiling head speaking into a phone. i feel like, of all the amalgamates, they may actually have some of the most relevance to deltarune and the whole thing with the phone motif and. waves my hands around. i have a drawing somewhere outlining the head and phone shape of the memory heads in case it isnt as easily visible, but its something that really stuck out to me about them
You chose the perfect voice for entry 17
The amalgamate saying ‘come join the fun. Don’t worry about it’ lmao
Here's an interesting thing, no clue if itt has any lore importance though. In the 2nd chapter, the first room in the code is the goner maker room. It's identical to the 1st chapter but one of the dialogue prompts has flipped answers. When you end the sequence the normal intro to chapter 2 plays.
I'm pretty sure both River Person and Onion ARE talking about the Sound Test Room, as Onion mentions that it is only 'a piece of a song' that he is hearing, in reference to the fact that all/most of the songs in the ST Room are super short and incomplete.