As usual a well-articulated and convincing video. You really love to get into it, don't you? Honestly that's what makes me watch though because this is a subject or opinion I would've never thought about. Well now I know my position on the matter. I wanted to say though that I thought your first point with the brothers game was sort of unrealistic but then the ones about the shooting game were solid. Also I don't know if you mentioned this specifically as a positive for cutscenes but I think they can be good "rewards" for beating a particularly hard part of the game. Sometimes in games I've felt the cutscenes were what I was playing for and the gameplay were fun intermissions inbetween instead of vice versa.
Well I'm glad you enjoyed it! Yeah I used to be of that same mindset back in the day where I was playing "to get to the next cutscene." They were such a marvel for so long that seeing a new cinematic was a treat in itself.
I honestly don’t mind video games being more like movies. My favorite TV series is The Wire which is one of the most novel like TV show ever. It all depends on the game. I do find that cutscenes can take too much control away, but taking away control for downtime can really help the pacing of the game. And I find pacing to be the most important part on how to make a cutscene work.
Ya, a lot of it definitely about context, style, and balance. Like, I thoroughly enjoy a game like Heavy Rain, but it's funny you mention taking control away for downtime because I actually find Heavy Rain exhausting in many ways. In a good way, but emotionally so. My hope is that games, more generally speaking, will not fall back on complacency and tried and true methods of pacing found in more established media and instead emphasize the strengths of this medium. I think a down, or lull, period can be established through gameplay. It Takes Two immediately comes to mind. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Wow this such a great game design video. No wonder i dont like majority of games starting from 8th gen. So much movie cinematic games that are long/bloated and slow.
@@FalconB76 Thank you. Ya the more "cinematic" approach is one that's neat to me, but overall just feels like a misguided progress that undermines the strength of what video games are capable of
games started to suck when developers started taking video games seriously as an artistic medium. Make a fun game first and then play philosopher, ok game studios.
I think this is a bit of a misconception, mostly on the creative end from developers. For example, books became wonderful when they took advantage of their strengths and became high art through that, same with film, music, etc. I think gaming's problem is one of imposter syndrome rather than taking itself seriously. Games that focus on its strengths can do both to be a good game and play philosopher simultaneously. Modern examples like Katana Zero, Hellblade, or Nier Automata. Older examples such as Soul Blazer, Chrono Trigger, or System Shock. When you try to tell a story through a game rather than have a game tell a story is where you get that "suck" that mentioned. At least those are my thoughts on the matter.
@@Zerbraxi I always thought we wanted fun video games but I guess I'm just a Super Nintendo kind of guy. Never, ever force a slow walk to "reinforce the narrative" or try to manipulate the players emotions and crap like that. That's what I mean by taking video games seriously as an artistic medium. Don't smell your own farts instead of making a fun game. A loading screen is better than a longer fake loading screen that takes longer with animations and mindless dialogue from NPCs(new God of War games I'm looking at you with your corny life lessons). I'd take a significantly longer loading screen with no Atreus irritating me than what they gave us, something no one asked for. RDR2 is the same. A big open world with 5 towns and huge spaces in between for mindless dialogue during unskippable slow walk one way fake me out not cutscenes cutscenes. just start the mission where I need to be. Tell a story but don't force a story. If it's good, people will appreciate it and if it's not and you have a fun game it's still a fun game. The fact that it is interactive means the more artsy fartsy it is the less it will appeal to people outside a niche.
I actually don't disagree with you here except for the "just want a fun video game" line. I don't think games need to be so limited to just "fun" while remaining good games. Papers Please is not fun at all but one of the most engaging games I've ever played that allows me to truly immerse myself in a crippling society in a way that ONLY games could do. Another thought is a game called This War of Mine. The difference is maybe more "being told a story" vs "being in the story" and games operate best , at least to me, when they operate in that second option. Then there are games that can just be a fun time and not need to do anything more than that!! I love those!! I think in this case though we actually can have our cake and eat it too.
@@Zerbraxi I actually think Papers Please a great example of video game art. I should probably state my criticisms are for big commercial releases. Stuff that is specifically made for a more indie market is what it is supposed to be.
I know this is an older video, but would you consider adding the titles of the gameplay you splice into these videos. I saw Blue Fire 2 minutes in and was instantly interested, but I had to look it up. Luckily with the hint of 'Lord Samael' on screen I was able to find it pretty quickly. But this isn't the first time I have had to go looking for a game for which you showed interesting gameplay. Just a suggestion that would be very helpful. Thanks.
I'll definitely try to keep that in mind going forward for sure. I can also always update this video's description for sure. I'm glad there are games I'm showing that are grabbing attention. Blue Fire is a really fun game. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely come back to this video, after I sleep, and will try to remember to list gameplay shown in these more broad topic videos.
Personally I think that it's a matter of balancing it well and using cutscenes to add to an experience. That games can be interactive does not mean they always have to be, not having to think about reacting can make it easier to focus on the story that is being told. Forcing in cutscenes to show off doesn't work, neither does forcing all storytelling through gameplay, but if what is being told naturally falls in either way, it can work well. What's "better" depends on the specific game and preference of the player, personally I prefer more passive cutscenes, if they add to the experience the game brings.
I'm pretty sure what you said and what I was trying to express at the end is very similar. For example, I love games like Heavy Rain and that's hardly a "game" by many standards. It definitely depends. What I do find to be most interesting in the industry though is how the AAA space is "mostly" moving towards cinematic storytelling while, due to so many constraints, the indie scene is heavily relying on raw storytelling through gameplay. I'm of the mindset that the pendulum will start to swing more towards center again and we'll see the AAA space embrace more storytelling through gameplay in certain ways especially when you consider the critical and fan reception to titles like Elden Ring and Breath of the Wild.
@@ZerbraxiI doubt that big budget games will try to be better. I agree there needs to be a balance. But big budget titles more and more feel like make out of template with some exceptions. Brothers a Tale of two sons (great game imo) was mute there was no dialog player could understand to gameplay and controls have to do the heavy lifting. And I think they it very well. This does not change the fact that for some controlling at the beginning might be more of a challenge as we need to adjust the brain. On the other side we have Firewatch which was walking and talking but player had the agency to choose how to respond which impacted the response we got back. We also have a small gem of What happened to Edith Finch which does the good job of actively trying to tell us something. The balance between active and passive is what we need.
Before I get into the video. Hello and welcome I am.... Ahem excuse me something came over me. Cutscenes!! Who doesn't love them? I loved watching like 50 hours of movies with MGS 4.
Love having passive cutscenes in certain types of games just for some relief if there is a lot of action. Cutscenes with nothing going on, but story, also helps me instantly fall asleep. I know I have a problem of falling asleep while gaming. Lol
LOL, that's actually funny you bring that up. I was gonna make a joke about how when I do finally get to play games its often late at night and the amount of times I fell asleep during the like 20+ hours of ctuscenes in Triangle Strategy is immeasurable. I too fall asleep to cutscenes ALL the time. It's a serious problem. Happened to me a handful of times playing Fire Emblem Engage last month.
Oh I definitely poked fun at MGS4 in this video. Granted it was only like a line or two because it's a bit of low hanging fruit, but I definitely commented on its 10 hours of cutscenes in the 18 hour game. It's around the half way mark if I remember correctly because I immediately follow it up with Death Stranding's absolutely insane combined cutscene length as well. I'll never let go of an opportunity to poke fun at Kojima :)
You mention metal gear solid 4 and 5 in here. 4 had too many, 3 was perfect. 5 went soooooooooooo far the other way it actually ruined the game for me. Mgs 5 is probably the most disappointing game I have ever played. Years of hype, for a dull open world, hollow story and repetitive missions... built inside a fantastic game engine and combat system. A mess of a game. Great video as always! Interesting topic too
this man seriously deserves more subscribers
You seriously deserve more chinese food and flowers.
As usual a well-articulated and convincing video. You really love to get into it, don't you? Honestly that's what makes me watch though because this is a subject or opinion I would've never thought about. Well now I know my position on the matter. I wanted to say though that I thought your first point with the brothers game was sort of unrealistic but then the ones about the shooting game were solid.
Also I don't know if you mentioned this specifically as a positive for cutscenes but I think they can be good "rewards" for beating a particularly hard part of the game. Sometimes in games I've felt the cutscenes were what I was playing for and the gameplay were fun intermissions inbetween instead of vice versa.
Well I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Yeah I used to be of that same mindset back in the day where I was playing "to get to the next cutscene." They were such a marvel for so long that seeing a new cinematic was a treat in itself.
jeez, can't believe you made an almost 30-minute cutscene.
This entire cutscene was shot and edited using Chat GPT.
I honestly don’t mind video games being more like movies. My favorite TV series is The Wire which is one of the most novel like TV show ever. It all depends on the game. I do find that cutscenes can take too much control away, but taking away control for downtime can really help the pacing of the game. And I find pacing to be the most important part on how to make a cutscene work.
Ya, a lot of it definitely about context, style, and balance. Like, I thoroughly enjoy a game like Heavy Rain, but it's funny you mention taking control away for downtime because I actually find Heavy Rain exhausting in many ways. In a good way, but emotionally so.
My hope is that games, more generally speaking, will not fall back on complacency and tried and true methods of pacing found in more established media and instead emphasize the strengths of this medium. I think a down, or lull, period can be established through gameplay. It Takes Two immediately comes to mind.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
The algo has shifted, and your videos are being recommended now.
Don't make a wrongthink, and this channel will probably take off
Dang, that's kinda fun to hear. Just don't screw it up now right? No pressure at all 😀
Star fox on the SNES has an amazing intro, Really blew my mind when I was kid
Huge agree! Corneria on SNES is genuinely one of the best first levels.
Dude your channel is incredibly underrated keep it up man.
Thank you for that! I don't plan on stopping anytime soon. I have way too much fun making these :)
Wow my yt actually infomed me of your video uploads! I'll get onto watching
It's a March Miracle!!
Great video! It's like a real life cutscene!
This scene cannot be skipped.
@@Zerbraxi tell me your thoughts on mortal Kombat 11 ultimate
@@jakemiddleton1783 Ugh, I love MK story...but I did want to do more fighting in my fighting game.
@@Zerbraxi SAME!
Wow this such a great game design video. No wonder i dont like majority of games starting from 8th gen. So much movie cinematic games that are long/bloated and slow.
@@FalconB76 Thank you. Ya the more "cinematic" approach is one that's neat to me, but overall just feels like a misguided progress that undermines the strength of what video games are capable of
CUTECENES?? *screams in speedrunning*
This scene cannot be skipped.
@@Zerbraxi 👎
Half life 2 has literally TWO cutscenes: one to open the game, one to close the game.
Actual legend of a game.
Giraffe: 🐘
If one person noticed then the entire thing was worth it :)
Nah man it's just a giraffe that's had a little too much to eat and suffers from a small neck and has a huge nose. Purely coincidental
fantastic Video!
Thank you SOO much! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
games started to suck when developers started taking video games seriously as an artistic medium. Make a fun game first and then play philosopher, ok game studios.
I think this is a bit of a misconception, mostly on the creative end from developers.
For example, books became wonderful when they took advantage of their strengths and became high art through that, same with film, music, etc. I think gaming's problem is one of imposter syndrome rather than taking itself seriously. Games that focus on its strengths can do both to be a good game and play philosopher simultaneously. Modern examples like Katana Zero, Hellblade, or Nier Automata. Older examples such as Soul Blazer, Chrono Trigger, or System Shock.
When you try to tell a story through a game rather than have a game tell a story is where you get that "suck" that mentioned.
At least those are my thoughts on the matter.
@@Zerbraxi
I always thought we wanted fun video games but I guess I'm just a Super Nintendo kind of guy. Never, ever force a slow walk to "reinforce the narrative" or try to manipulate the players emotions and crap like that. That's what I mean by taking video games seriously as an artistic medium. Don't smell your own farts instead of making a fun game. A loading screen is better than a longer fake loading screen that takes longer with animations and mindless dialogue from NPCs(new God of War games I'm looking at you with your corny life lessons). I'd take a significantly longer loading screen with no Atreus irritating me than what they gave us, something no one asked for. RDR2 is the same. A big open world with 5 towns and huge spaces in between for mindless dialogue during unskippable slow walk one way fake me out not cutscenes cutscenes. just start the mission where I need to be. Tell a story but don't force a story. If it's good, people will appreciate it and if it's not and you have a fun game it's still a fun game. The fact that it is interactive means the more artsy fartsy it is the less it will appeal to people outside a niche.
@@Zerbraxi
Make a shoot em up set in the old west not an allegory for good and evil. know what I mean?
I actually don't disagree with you here except for the "just want a fun video game" line. I don't think games need to be so limited to just "fun" while remaining good games. Papers Please is not fun at all but one of the most engaging games I've ever played that allows me to truly immerse myself in a crippling society in a way that ONLY games could do. Another thought is a game called This War of Mine.
The difference is maybe more "being told a story" vs "being in the story" and games operate best , at least to me, when they operate in that second option.
Then there are games that can just be a fun time and not need to do anything more than that!! I love those!! I think in this case though we actually can have our cake and eat it too.
@@Zerbraxi
I actually think Papers Please a great example of video game art. I should probably state my criticisms are for big commercial releases. Stuff that is specifically made for a more indie market is what it is supposed to be.
I know this is an older video, but would you consider adding the titles of the gameplay you splice into these videos. I saw Blue Fire 2 minutes in and was instantly interested, but I had to look it up. Luckily with the hint of 'Lord Samael' on screen I was able to find it pretty quickly. But this isn't the first time I have had to go looking for a game for which you showed interesting gameplay. Just a suggestion that would be very helpful. Thanks.
I'll definitely try to keep that in mind going forward for sure. I can also always update this video's description for sure.
I'm glad there are games I'm showing that are grabbing attention. Blue Fire is a really fun game.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely come back to this video, after I sleep, and will try to remember to list gameplay shown in these more broad topic videos.
Game names have been added to the description. Thanks for the suggestion!
@@Zerbraxi Nice. Thank you for the effort.
Personally I think that it's a matter of balancing it well and using cutscenes to add to an experience.
That games can be interactive does not mean they always have to be, not having to think about reacting can make it easier to focus on the story that is being told.
Forcing in cutscenes to show off doesn't work, neither does forcing all storytelling through gameplay, but if what is being told naturally falls in either way, it can work well.
What's "better" depends on the specific game and preference of the player, personally I prefer more passive cutscenes, if they add to the experience the game brings.
I'm pretty sure what you said and what I was trying to express at the end is very similar. For example, I love games like Heavy Rain and that's hardly a "game" by many standards. It definitely depends.
What I do find to be most interesting in the industry though is how the AAA space is "mostly" moving towards cinematic storytelling while, due to so many constraints, the indie scene is heavily relying on raw storytelling through gameplay. I'm of the mindset that the pendulum will start to swing more towards center again and we'll see the AAA space embrace more storytelling through gameplay in certain ways especially when you consider the critical and fan reception to titles like Elden Ring and Breath of the Wild.
@@ZerbraxiI doubt that big budget games will try to be better. I agree there needs to be a balance. But big budget titles more and more feel like make out of template with some exceptions.
Brothers a Tale of two sons (great game imo) was mute there was no dialog player could understand to gameplay and controls have to do the heavy lifting. And I think they it very well. This does not change the fact that for some controlling at the beginning might be more of a challenge as we need to adjust the brain.
On the other side we have Firewatch which was walking and talking but player had the agency to choose how to respond which impacted the response we got back.
We also have a small gem of What happened to Edith Finch which does the good job of actively trying to tell us something.
The balance between active and passive is what we need.
@@mravg79 Very fair point. The combination of both is definitely the peak of what video games can provide vs other media.
This is a comment comparing your video to a cutscene.
Press X to skip.
Before I get into the video. Hello and welcome I am.... Ahem excuse me something came over me. Cutscenes!! Who doesn't love them? I loved watching like 50 hours of movies with MGS 4.
Love having passive cutscenes in certain types of games just for some relief if there is a lot of action. Cutscenes with nothing going on, but story, also helps me instantly fall asleep. I know I have a problem of falling asleep while gaming. Lol
LOL, that's actually funny you bring that up. I was gonna make a joke about how when I do finally get to play games its often late at night and the amount of times I fell asleep during the like 20+ hours of ctuscenes in Triangle Strategy is immeasurable. I too fall asleep to cutscenes ALL the time. It's a serious problem.
Happened to me a handful of times playing Fire Emblem Engage last month.
Buh bye!
Can't believe he did not mention any metal gear solid game in terms of cutscene lenght and count lol
Oh I definitely poked fun at MGS4 in this video. Granted it was only like a line or two because it's a bit of low hanging fruit, but I definitely commented on its 10 hours of cutscenes in the 18 hour game. It's around the half way mark if I remember correctly because I immediately follow it up with Death Stranding's absolutely insane combined cutscene length as well.
I'll never let go of an opportunity to poke fun at Kojima :)
You mention metal gear solid 4 and 5 in here. 4 had too many, 3 was perfect. 5 went soooooooooooo far the other way it actually ruined the game for me. Mgs 5 is probably the most disappointing game I have ever played. Years of hype, for a dull open world, hollow story and repetitive missions... built inside a fantastic game engine and combat system. A mess of a game.
Great video as always! Interesting topic too
That's tough. Sometimes being an extremely casual fan of a franchise is the best position to be in.
😂
I don't know why we're laughing but I want to join.