GoTo Group has two big problems; competition, and the need to burn billions of cash. Do you think the company will survive in the end? Let us know down below!
goto group even though the company is competing with strong rivals but they are on a different track than their competitors, I also don't know their competition, but the management feels they are on the right track & their management feels they are making a profit, maybe their management's way of evaluating , try searching again.
@@Kevin-fq3zh Indeed, on the stock market, they collapsed, but on the other hand, they claimed to be profitable... real companies sometimes don't care about the value of their shares, but they make big profits.
I don't think competition is the problem, goto group simply the only one brand to go to by default in Indonesia. They are also not really in the burning money mode anymore, the entire gofood business actually they already put 20 percent profit margin from the original price of the food plus the default service charge for each transaction, plus the percentage from the driver fee. Even if they provide free delivery promotion or food discount also, it is limited to a certain number. e.g. once for every point reached you can choose 20 percent discount to be included. But the game here is you can choose only "one" discount from whatever amount of discount perks you have. And you need some effort to get the perks anyway (e.g. prepaid or spend more). See, it is pre-calculated loss less, gain more system for them. One more thing to be added here is the perks also usually time limited, so you might burn away your hard earned perks.
Ride hailing is Grab rival and e-commrece is Shopee rival the only hope in goto group is their dominant E-Wallet Go-Pay because all of this financial rival are domestic
it should be short term investment, not for too long, because they always make loss every year, business need profit to work, but they didnt, so quite nervous about that
Tokopedia will increase their fees (almost double) for sellers starting 2 January 2023. This move could hurt small medium sellers and customers also will feel the price increase because seller will add the fees to their final product price.
it's about time. tokopedia and similar ecommerce was just 'burning money' to increase business valuation, but they haven't planned on making profit (until now). they overfocused on gaining market share and increasing business valuation that they 'forget' to make profit. their business can't survive relying solely on foreign investor. so now they trying to add more fees
as a woman with a lot of " boyish" interest, it is less about by which country shopee and tokopedia are and more about the target market. Shopee has more " girl things" like women fashion but Tokopedia has more " boy interest" like computer spareparts.
Price of the products bought on both e-commerces also impact our choice of platform. I tend to direct my peers to tokopedia if the transaction involves Rp. 500k++ since t&c of tokopedia is a lot more strict to seller and this too includes their 5 star cust. service. I've had encounters with sellers in both e-commerces, and tokopedia to me always had a higher rate of satisfaction and peace of mind (?) regarding how the money handled. It is because of the way tokopedia process and communicate to buyer, one of them is using more 'slang-y' choice of words. Also, tokopedia is always my preferred e-commerce because shopee's UI is a sore of a sight. Too content-packed with no sense of humane UX.
i especially hate shopee UI, same with lazada as well,, ugly design, overcrowded with unecessary stuff, unintuituve, it just a complete sore to the eyes, absolutely hate it, honestly thats the only reason why i never really use both shopee and lazada
@@ПобедавРоссии I have never seen an Indonesian claiming him/herself as creative, has never been our forte in the first place. We did claim other virtues like being polite, but never creative lol
@@dangerouspanda664 Oh yeah sure, and my smart dangerous panda probably never knew that Shopee hiring the whole Black Pink member, used Boombayah song for they jingle, change the "BALCPINK!" lyric and make the whole member yelled "SHOPEE", held a mini kpop concert way before tokopedia 😂😂
From on the ground in Indonesia, Gojek is always significantly more expensive than Grab for cars, food delivery, etc. Sometime restaurants (especially higher end ones) also have less of their items listed on Gojek. I almost soley use Grab because of this.
@@eloffmusk Yea, maybe as a migrant there is a different experience but I just checked ordering a Grab bike and Go bike to the same location and Gojek was more expensive. Same thing with a food delivery cost.
their underlying service still based on consumer, if they want to make their company stable, they should create branch that support the service, not just adding fee to the seller or user. like mekari for example. i believe mekari will be more stable than goto it self
@@sgsggsgsshshs8900 these kind of valuation business has never been a good place to invest. They're not a real business. It's the epitome of capitalistic market where the bigger player wins. If another big player joins Indonesian market and tries to dominate, it's gameover for most of our fintech.
Both mekari and goto product should focus on consumer / business partner. In the east consumer is king. But you're correct, there are some company that should focus to support their service. i.e. luxury goods company
Don't forget that Amazon also did that until very recently. Indeed, their profit is mainly from cloud servers business instead of online shopping business, which is still touch and go even today.
I see, so this is why their discount offers are getting worse. Back in 2021, Gojek lets us use 2 discount coupons for an order. Now it's limited to 1. Also noticed that their driver fees are getting way too high, to the point where it costs more than the food I order,
The last one is normal to all apps, ordering food is generally for big group instead of personal order. They are making loss if not. As for the 2 discount coupons, That's because it happened when COVID is all time high, so more user.
I noticed a huge price difference between the food if you go to the restaurant and if you buy it through gojek. The other day I ordered 2 hotdogs that were 40,000 rupiah each through grab. I went to the restaurant and the price was 20,000 rupiah per hotdog. I know gojek has got to make money but come on, 50 percent mark up. I need to stop being so lazy and just go out and get the food.
@@danieljones1784 same case with shopeefood, but i can get lower price (than gofood) by going out to the resto - then scan QR code & redeem shopeecoins up to 50% food price. not every merchant support it though, so it's a trial-and-error process to find out which merchant support coins redemption
no it’s not. The fact that they’re doing that means that their userbase will still hold onto them despite cutting out promos. Just because you don’t like that a feature isn’t beneficial to you anymore, doesn’t mean their business is dying because of it. To increase competition they have to provide more value to the market than their competitors, in a way that would make sense investment-wise. I guess they saw that the promos didn’t really help extend their userbase other than the one they already have. This reminds me of the Apple vs Samsung vs other tech companies’ rivalry. I think they have to be either a pioneer in something (being a pioneer always sucks though because the other companies can just copy it and make it better), or I guess cast a wider net to the market, idk
@@danieljones1784 partner fee is 20% so if the price difference is 50% or more, than its merchant responsibility. cause they want to get more profit. and i never see the 50% price difference just like u said, maybe the higher i found is around 25% .
They are doing poorly in short term speculation laden stock market. However in term of market dominance they are undoubtedly still and will still be the king for years ahead. They are in unique position of being regarded as the market leader, local representation, and also the best in quality/availability. Yes, Shopee (Tencent?) for example is around the same level of popularity and market share, but if anything they are much more aggressive in cash burning and has much weaker secondary products (e.g Shopeefood vs Gofood). They will survive.
I don't think so Are you indonesian? Tell me, which app offer more discount, grabfood or gofood? I think we can all tell, gofood offer miniscule discount like 5 thousand rupiah while grabfood still offer 20% to 35% food discount, see they're in trouble Tokopedia, see now you can't take the "bebas ongkir" (no shipping cost) with other discount, you can only take 1 discount, no shipping cost or price cut Also have you interviewed "supir gojek" (gojek driver) lately? Now it's harder to find passenger, while grab or maxim more common now To make it easy just open the app and compare price gojek vs grab, often times grab offer better price even if its only 2k-3k rupiah less
@@LexicroftAlpha GoTo generally lose or not winning in two areas, marketing and promotional discount budget. Neither of them are included in three factors that I have mentioned (if you are going to argue that the super clustered and laggy Shopee app is better than Tokopedia, I would just laugh at you). If you only consider promotional discount budget, it is difficult to quantify which one is actually the better one because (in case of you doesn't know) discounts and promotional differs depending on where you live and who you are. If you want my personal anecdote for food delivery as an example, I have and often use all three of them. It has reached a full cycle of Gofood > Grabfood > Shopeefood > Gofood again as the app who most often give the cheapest price. Grabfood is actually the least competitive right now in term of pricing, while Shopeefood keep reducing its discount and has very restrictive price eligibility for discount. In my area for the last few months gofood actually has several happy hours programs per day which offered great pricing and is not artificially limited/not fake discounts and a slower delivery option that make delivery completely free, which made it as the winner for pricing right now. However as I said I'm not adding pricing to the discussion because living in different city gets you a different experience. As for "drivers complaining about reducing orders/income", surprise surprise that anecdote has always been happening for all drivers in all apps for the last several years. That alone is not an indication of anything.
Because this is just stupid valuation business. You know who the real winner will be? The last to join the competition, might be shoppee, or who knows if there's another corp, since they will have more money to burn to win the market share.
Tokopedia is Amazon like online outlet ,while Gojek is Uber with motorbike that also serve food and package delivery. It's a bit scummy though because some of it's investor are government official, or related with one of them. Some of Indonesian state company also invest money, controversial moves that make them in loss soon after IPO.
Of course they will. E-commerce and ride hailing combined? That's Uber's wet dream probably 😂. Grab will have to burn much more to compete. Combining Grab and Shopee, now that's scary for GoTo.
e-commerce and ride hailing are both cash burners and Goto needs to compete with specialists in both industries vs Grab for ride hailing vs Shopee for ecommerce (Shopee does have Shopeefood, but I feel like they would cut off Shopeefood anytime to save Shopee)
As a e-commerce consumer, I feel better experience using tokopedia compared to shopee, shopee had far better promotion thou, probably because they had more money to burn. For ride hailing grab and gojek seem similar.
Yeah, tokopedia and gojek is not burning money like they use to. I still remember up to Rp. 200.000,- cash back for some purchases in tokopedia, or the big discount when ordering rides or food on gojek in the past. Those discount vouchers almost never happens again. Right now shopee (e-commerce, food services) and grab (rides, food services) offer a better discount for customers. And since people will shifted to services that gives the biggest discount, most of go-to users have shifted to their competiters.
as an employee of one of GOTO competitor, I can tell you that we are, the employee, is fucked up because the growth of our company is slowing down and already firing employee left and right
Wow I didn’t know that! I used Gojek for transportation purposes only, recently was so difficult to get a car when I was in jogja, took three times after cancellation finally get a driver that almost needs 20 minutes in order to arrive.
even though Grab Food or Grab Bike sometimes feel cheaper, to this day, i'm still using Gojek as my primary and Tokopedia as my main e-commerce site, since i installed those app first and made their accounts first, and used Gopay for the digital transaction first. Too many apps and accounts made me headache. I think that's a small way to help this local company survive... it's not much, but i think it's the best for me rn.
Tokopedia too mamy hidden fees for even for buyer. They make insurance as default but cannot claim the insurance. They just wantbto increase the price for their benefit.
as a loyal shopper of tokopedia, recently i really feel they have some serious problem, esp in their shipping partners. I still believe tokope has its advantage, as a consumer they really have better customer service and provide better security than shopee, but they just need to be careful! cos shopee is catching up, cutting of benefits due to bad times is understandable, but there is no excuses that basic shipping/service quality should dropped!
I think there are a few things to be factored in : 1. goto is indonesia based,while SEA and grab are singapore,cost in indonesia is a lot cheaper than singapore,so goto having $2M and SEA and grab having $8M or more is still in the acceptable margin. 2.the biggest market in SEA is indonesia,and goto still have a good hold on it,not to mention goto is also diversifying both it's service and investment portfolio,because goto is now also involved with electric vehicle production with a major energy/mining company in indonesia,and it is also the 2nd largest shareholder of bank jago through it's subsidiary. 3.GoTo is quite politically well connected,nadiem makarim(Gojek founder) is now minister of education,garibaldi thohir(main commissioner) is the brother of erick thohir(minister of state owned enterprises),and most importantly,goto is indonesia's own star tech company,so the government will definitely give a certain preferential treatment to it. 4.goto is also involved in financial services like mokaPOS and midtrans,both are used by many businesses for it's daily transactions,for example if you go to a new cafe,there is a good chance the cashier uses mokaPOS,and midtrans will be used by many stores accepting qr payments. It's not there yet,but this might be a seed to be the digital qr version of visa or mastercard in indonesia.
@@multatuli1 relying on political connections is not exactly stable,but in indonesia the political field is relatively stable,and if there are a regime change,it won't kill the company,at most only stifle it. It will only be trouble if the ruling regime needs a distraction issue,and they become the target. But the key here is GoTo is an indonesian brand,the government,with whoever in charge wants to have an indonesian brand at least control the domestic market,or risk being called a traitor.
@@multatuli1 Politic in Indonesia is generally stable as even changing ministers couple time by the president, there are little to no effect politics stability (I mean they are exactly the same, rarely major big changes)
Why? Because founders are not businessmen and lack business acumen. Investors pour money to raise valuation n pull out fat profit later on. Investors never care about the future of the company. It's the founder's job to steer the ship but they all went down the hell hole. To reach profitability like Amazon it's almost impossible at this stage
I think with how impactful they are in the indonesian economy and society, a bail out may happened. (One of the co-founder is part of the current ruling regime)
I lost about 30% of my capital value in Paypal, Amazon, and Disney during 2020-2022. If you asked me what I think whether GoTo is sustainable? I think not, Paypal shares plummeted because of greedy investment in Crypto. Amazon due to failing to support their workers and union, and blatant dishonest practices, despite their profit were astronomical. Disney failed because nobody can afford to visit their parks during the pandemic and people just had enough of them. The bottom line for any business is that the company should not focus on greed and pocketing profits outside of their main business, companies must ensure the people are dependent to their service regardless of the competition, and most importantly that companies must threat their workers as if their life depends on it, so most critical is ensuring their workers can live sustainably, before taking any profit. These three things are what makes Microsoft, Google, CVS...etc maintain confidence in the market even throughout the pandemic.
You see... they will survive, why? Because they are too big to fail. Government will somehow bail them because they are source of income for a lot of people. It is simply main source of income for middle and low income groups.
When I say bailing out by government, it is a loose description, it doesn't only mean government giving money directly, it might be with bond, government contracts, and so on.
No wtf bro. GoTo only contribute for about 2% of Indonesia's GDP (source google). Its not big enough that the government need to save them if they go bankrupt. It need to be as big as samsung for south korea for that to happen (20% south korea GDP are from samsung). Or maybe if even just 10% its worth saving.
oh they may sink to the deepest abyss alright, but i'm still gonna use them.. atleast for now and foreseeable future because the other competitors are just as bad if not worse as they're really wished amazon would step in here and uber to just hit back then just take over the whole ecommerce and ride-hailing industry already
Uber can't be back for the time being because they already sold their business to Grab. It would be stupid for Grab if they didn't put that in the deal.
SEA (Shopee/Grab) and Goto thinks they can become like Amazon. Like Amazon, its initial days was a loss making business model. But e-commerce is a very small part of Amazon's income earnings, something maybe the these two companies need to look into.
@@stabbypandarogue8164 the most of aws customers are cooprate who not complaining about the price and the popularity. Is different case on SEA region which most them are want cheapest as possible with greater quality on popular brand only.
There are two major problems that technology startups in Indonesia are facing, especially when they are going public. Stop burning cash and start to think on how to make real profit, and stop paying your employees with salary much higher than market value. Honeymoon period is over, overseas investor are keeping their money, grow up and change your business model.
Bro that's how start-up company doing their business. If you stop burning cash, then your customer will shift their preference to another app. Once you lose the competition means you're dead. That's how the modern business model going on right now, it's all about competition. If you don't want to burning cash and focus on real profit, you need to make a product that no other people can make, so you can monopolized the market. As long as you have competitor, you can't focus on real profit.
@@reihardiansht6897 you have a wrong mindset, competition doesn't mean you can't make a real profit. There are dozens of other tech companies that have big competitor, selling the same products and they are making big profit just fine. And profit doesn't always come from selling products, management efficiency could also lead to profit indirectly if the startup companies are managed correctly. Look there's definitely a miss management here in Indonesian startup, and they should do something about it or else it's game over for them.
@@hast.. "dozen tech startup selling the same product making real profit just fine?", Show me which one? You only see the last standing tech company that finally can able to survive after a long time of spending and profit loss. There is a tough competition in tech company. One or two can survive but many others are failed. Goto condition is just the normal problem happen in startup business worldwide, not just Indonesia. Did you know that Spotify still can't make real profit until now? And Netflix need more than 10 years to finally make profit. Goto is relatively new company compare to others tech company, it's almost impossible to get a real profit in just a short time. Miss management, probably i agree with that, but burning money is mandatory, can you imagine what happen if Tokopedia & gojek stop burning money by not giving big discount? They will lose customer competition with shopee & grab. Once they lose there is no way they can compete. Forget about real profit if you lose the competition.
when retail price online is at lower than the actaul retail price, with minimum profit margin everyone will suffer. price wars and when everyone is happy to earn 10 cents with minimap operatng cost. who will have have money to buy online when everyone is pushed out of their business, offline, resellers, suppliers, distributors, factory. everyone is at war. who can afford to employ anyone. we may see increase in unemployment no one is safe.
@@SandLion Quite a lot actually. There is a WHOLE building (+ shopping mall) being used as the gojek HQ. Plus: I think their salary level is a little on the crazy side. As far as I understand, a fresh grad software engineer at gojek gets paid pretty much 3-4x the average starting salary of a typical fresh engineering grad in any other local Indonesian company. So their opex is a little on the higher side. It kinda...spoils the SW engineer market 😅recently i've heard of an ex gojek SW engineer (practically a fresh grad with
I don't understand. How can these companies be running at billion dollar losses every year and still be able to fundraise? Surely as an investor I want my dividends, or as a loanee I want my loan back plus interest. Where is that money coming from? If I open a coffee shop, I lose $100,000 a year net, and my shareholders and bank are waiting to be paid, I go bankrupt.
The bet is that when they take over everything they can then charge whatever they want. However this kind of American thinking never really works out in practice but now you've conditioned your customers with the subsidized price
Same, I don't understand either. So it's either that they didn't really lose money and just said so to avoid tax, or they really lose that much money and still managed to get investor's money.
IPO. It's why any company went to stock market, otherwise why would they want anybody else get a share of their assets? By selling part of the company share, they get a lot of money which they then use to expand (or burn).
Malah makin banyak yg jual kalau terlalu naik . Stigmanya udah negatif untuk beberapa minggu ke depan Mereka yg hold pasti panic sell, karena untuk mengurangi kerugian yg lebih dalem Mungkin perlu 4 bulan untuk benar2 pulih
@@maulidanis.harahap1436 ini masih hari ini Kita liat beberapa hari atau minggu ke depan Karena saingan goto Grab lagi bagus2nya SEA juga bgitu Jadi aga berat sih menurutku
@@dhingdhong61 Iya sih, setuju sama opini nya ga bakal 100% balik cepet. Tapi menurut gua goto ga bakal mati se gampang itu, karena perusahaan nya juga mempunyai backingan blackrock dan banyak lagi. Panic sell juga ga bakal se parah sebelumnya. intinya, GoTo bakal survive setidaknya sampe tahun baru
Mungkin ada yang mengambil keuntungan besar bukan panik...tapi ini saatnya yang tepat membeli saham yang sedang turun dari peruhaan mendapat untung tapi saham turun🤣🤣🤣
Just be the best of yourself, defeat yourself not others, learn from other mistakes not follow them, no matter how big they are or how small are you, cusomers knows which one is good in the end.
Used to love shopee and only shopped at shopee. Then gojek and tokped merged then i jumped ship because of the gosend promo and the minimum charge for a gratis ongkir and they always cut 20k off at that. Shopee was doing 10k and 15k only. Then they ALWAYS just suddenly charge and increase all kinds of fees. I am a diamong member di tokped, but the services are not as claimed. Often times i have to wait longer than claimed for a reply. I would have to resource dropping my friends name just to get them reply me fast. One time they called me within minutes cause i dropped my friends name who are working on the Uuuuupppper position at tokped. Its annoying but thats just how it is in indo, ALWAYS. And then now they have the plus package that ANYONE in jawa can just buy. I bought it and felt that having a diamond member is useless now. Cause anybody who bought it will have the same access as diamond. I’m very disappointed and slowly jumping ship back to shopee😅😅😂
Most of the questions and facts in this video are relevant to all tech startups around the world. At the end, it is an entirely different business model.
Gojek (GoPay) and Tokopedia are important apps for Indonesian. I wish they will survive and stop burning cash by hiring high tier KPop Idols. Sorry to say but it's useless.
You have to give value to the market to trump competition. I saw a comment saying Tokopedia has more guy things than girls and I absolutely agree that they should start putting women’s interests in there. I think having an all-encompassing environment is important, if you look at Walmart and other stores which are basically retail they take ALL AGES and ALL GENDERS into account, while specifically targeting low income people at the same time. I also think at some point they should start combining their services like LINE does.
Tokopedia is still better choice than crappy shoope. They just fired good talent and kept corrupted one, is kinda sad. And also worst UI, services and constantly defending the fake seller who sell fake, kw stuff.
Biggest problem with Tokoped, its products are full of fakes, cheapskates and seconds. Indonesian consumers have little recourse or protection from such practices. Unlike Amazon, claiming a refund from Tokoped is a tiresome experience that makes most people give up trying. As a result, people returns to the old Mall shopping way. Sad.
mati aja sih gojek, dulu dia nolong sekarang mulai nyiksa merchant dan driver terlalu banyak mereka ngambil keringat orang di belakangnya, usaha gak berkah, semoga bankrut
The simple answer was a lot of people use grab more than gojek, grab rides are cheaper than using gojek and the fact that grab have a lot of frequent discount for their food service compared to Gojek
Ayo bebanin lagi penguna applikasi sendiri. Pajakin lagi penjual and pembelinya. Pelit² diskon lah sama customernya, ngak kayak grab. Lama² juga wasalam.
It will absolutely survive: 1. They almost have everything they need for the ecosystem. 2. They have a strong root for Indonesian local users. 3. In short: they have a strong fundamental. With this fundamental, we can take Amazon as an example. Amazon was good, then the stock price slipped down, and now they are great.
1. Lose to Shopee and Grab domination. 2. root is garbage. price and discount is the king 3. following others footstep of others is not a good fundamental. im user dan seller on both platform. GOTO is acting and playing like they are the master in Indonesia, trust me they are NOT and they will in deep hole with these mindset. Consumer have right to choose and doesnt even care about the Big Name or the origin of the venture.
And u really wrong my friend Indonesian people love low prices and big discounts And gojek+tokopedia burned their money to make it possible Now they don't have any more money to burned,so they will increase the fee+price and lower the discounts It wont make them grow more in Indonesia And u don't see the big picture,don't u? The reason gojek+tokopedia grew so fast before=because of covid So many Indonesian people stay at home and use gojek and tokopedia to buy stuff They can survive but they wont be able to grow as big as before,unless there's another covid pandemic with a bigger scale If u are an Indonesian,u should aware of this Indonesian people don't care about brand/loyalty,they care about the discounts and low prices
Tf bro when amazon stock were going down the company itself is already in a good condition. They are profitable and does not need to burn money to survive. You cant compare the two.
Profitability speaking, online shopping part of Amazon is not good, it's mediocre to hopeless. Amazon profit is from their cloud servers business, which made most of Amazon profit.
In my experience, Tokopedia is the safest E-commerce. Tokopedia always improve the balance between Customers and Sellers, they growing so fast around 2020-2021 because of Covid-19, people can't go out, so buy daily necessity through Tokopedia, and buy meal from Gofood. So if the analyst data source from Covid Years, it's not fully accurate (My Opinion)
i dont know much about tokopedia business side like their fee etc. but i know verywell about gojek since i am a merchant and they be making alot of money from it. the seller fee + costumer fee and they rarely doing a big promotion but still so many people use it.
I think it's their main blunder I have so many friends who worked in Tokopedia/Bukalapak before Their salary is very big(minimum 5 times the average salary for fresh grad,at least in IT department) So they also burned so much money for salaries
@@alexponco4753 That's the country's job industry problem of standardizing very low wages. Other sectors should compete and raise the overall average salaries instead. A country cannot prosper if their common citizen is paid peanuts and be stuck in a low wage class forever.
as a consumer, there's 1 thing from tokopedia and gojek respectively that stopped me from using me their services anymore. small thing that made me stopped using tokopedia is that the amount of dummy stores that has no reviews which sells items with jacked up prices. to my knowledge, these stores are just dropshippers which is fine, but they're not really legit. they just took the order and then order the items themselves through tokopedia or shoppee, then pockets the profit without being really affiliated with the original stores (hence the unreasonably jacked up prices). i stopped using gojek services because of the price spiking after their initial launch. again, this is fine, i get that they're burning money through vouchers and coupons, huge discount, etc to get traction with new users. but after this phase ends, they really don't handle it well especially with the gofood services. the price skyrocketed compared to their competitors, and you can't even chose the vouchers or discount you want to use in your transaction because gojek applied it automatically to your order. that'd be fine if it works well but it doesn't. more often than not the biggest discount isn't used (through some additional rules that is somewhat hidden and hard to understand from the pov of consumers), and the discount that is actually used don't really affect your price significantly. to lose the ability to chose and apply the vouchers myself is pretty infuriating. and to top it off, the obvious discount bait such as "90% OFF!! capped at $2" (though gojek isn't the only one to do this, but with the way their voucher system works, cmon).
Exactly, way too much real finance insights and good content. Don't know why youtube pushes this out, given that whoever made it didn't even google correctly since they blabbel about goto when SEA is in much bigger trouble
And wef, gates and blackrock "investing' into robotics farming. In a nation where farmers already have it tough, this is frightening monopoly and state collusion.
2022 I almost reaching Diamond level in Tokopedia, and yes, more and more increase of prices, way less promotion, or promotion with absurd terms and conditions, well 2023 time to leave GOTO since they no longer concern (loyal) customers
Goto has become too big to fail, since it provides a lot of jobs for ordinary Indonesians. If it can't keep afloat one day, government will step in to help
GoTo Group has two big problems; competition, and the need to burn billions of cash. Do you think the company will survive in the end? Let us know down below!
goto group even though the company is competing with strong rivals but they are on a different track than their competitors, I also don't know their competition, but the management feels they are on the right track & their management feels they are making a profit, maybe their management's way of evaluating , try searching again.
@@maumuapa4198 how on earth can anyone take you seriously when you readily admit you know nothing about their competitors hahaha 🤣
@@Kevin-fq3zh Indeed, on the stock market, they collapsed, but on the other hand, they claimed to be profitable... real companies sometimes don't care about the value of their shares, but they make big profits.
I don't think competition is the problem, goto group simply the only one brand to go to by default in Indonesia. They are also not really in the burning money mode anymore, the entire gofood business actually they already put 20 percent profit margin from the original price of the food plus the default service charge for each transaction, plus the percentage from the driver fee. Even if they provide free delivery promotion or food discount also, it is limited to a certain number. e.g. once for every point reached you can choose 20 percent discount to be included. But the game here is you can choose only "one" discount from whatever amount of discount perks you have. And you need some effort to get the perks anyway (e.g. prepaid or spend more). See, it is pre-calculated loss less, gain more system for them. One more thing to be added here is the perks also usually time limited, so you might burn away your hard earned perks.
Ride hailing is Grab rival and e-commrece is Shopee rival the only hope in goto group is their dominant E-Wallet Go-Pay because all of this financial rival are domestic
The amount of tears falling down from retail investors as GoTo went from 200 to 80 is enough to flood Jakarta once again.
Lol
Best comment for all those goto lover
it should be short term investment, not for too long, because they always make loss every year, business need profit to work, but they didnt, so quite nervous about that
And can you guess whos buying GOTO stock at 80? Yes youre right, its Singapore Govt.
Very smart
Tokopedia will increase their fees (almost double) for sellers starting 2 January 2023. This move could hurt small medium sellers and customers also will feel the price increase because seller will add the fees to their final product price.
Same thing is happening with Shopee in Malaysia. New rate starts 10 Jan 2023
True
bener ni toko ane.juga terpaksa naekin harga
They also no longer give 'free shipping' I no longer use it because of that
it's about time. tokopedia and similar ecommerce was just 'burning money' to increase business valuation, but they haven't planned on making profit (until now). they overfocused on gaining market share and increasing business valuation that they 'forget' to make profit. their business can't survive relying solely on foreign investor. so now they trying to add more fees
as a woman with a lot of " boyish" interest, it is less about by which country shopee and tokopedia are and more about the target market. Shopee has more " girl things" like women fashion but Tokopedia has more " boy interest" like computer spareparts.
yes this is so true
I never really like shopping at shopee. Sure they have more option for women but their service is not as good as tokopedia.
Price of the products bought on both e-commerces also impact our choice of platform. I tend to direct my peers to tokopedia if the transaction involves Rp. 500k++ since t&c of tokopedia is a lot more strict to seller and this too includes their 5 star cust. service. I've had encounters with sellers in both e-commerces, and tokopedia to me always had a higher rate of satisfaction and peace of mind (?) regarding how the money handled. It is because of the way tokopedia process and communicate to buyer, one of them is using more 'slang-y' choice of words. Also, tokopedia is always my preferred e-commerce because shopee's UI is a sore of a sight. Too content-packed with no sense of humane UX.
i especially hate shopee UI, same with lazada as well,, ugly design, overcrowded with unecessary stuff, unintuituve, it just a complete sore to the eyes, absolutely hate it, honestly thats the only reason why i never really use both shopee and lazada
@@yttrium6575true, same for me. Its feels so overcrowded and filled with unnecessary UI. That's why i stick with Tokopedia
While I respect marketing and advertising, GoTo hiring the entire BTS group for an advertisement must have burned a hole in the pocket
yup, that was dumb af. they should have lowered their prices instead, customers dont giv a f about BTS they just want lower prices
Yeah that's one idiotic move, I moved to shopee just because I am disgusted by kpop 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
@@sipsofhell9018what a smart human resources from a country that always self claimed themselves as creative people
@@ПобедавРоссии I have never seen an Indonesian claiming him/herself as creative, has never been our forte in the first place.
We did claim other virtues like being polite, but never creative lol
@@dangerouspanda664 Oh yeah sure, and my smart dangerous panda probably never knew that Shopee hiring the whole Black Pink member, used Boombayah song for they jingle, change the "BALCPINK!" lyric and make the whole member yelled "SHOPEE", held a mini kpop concert way before tokopedia 😂😂
From on the ground in Indonesia, Gojek is always significantly more expensive than Grab for cars, food delivery, etc. Sometime restaurants (especially higher end ones) also have less of their items listed on Gojek. I almost soley use Grab because of this.
thats news to me, might have to start using Grab then hahah
thanks for sharing
wow i just knew bout that, might switching
as Indonesian I can tell that GoFood is much more cheaper than GrabFood
@@eloffmusk Yea, maybe as a migrant there is a different experience but I just checked ordering a Grab bike and Go bike to the same location and Gojek was more expensive. Same thing with a food delivery cost.
beuh, gojek map api is shi*. couldnt even detect my house. while grab, love em ❤
their underlying service still based on consumer, if they want to make their company stable, they should create branch that support the service, not just adding fee to the seller or user. like mekari for example. i believe mekari will be more stable than goto it self
Their focus solely only for raising valuations, lack ambition to be self sufficient which is laughable. Valuations lmao, protect your cashflow ffs
@@sgsggsgsshshs8900 these kind of valuation business has never been a good place to invest. They're not a real business.
It's the epitome of capitalistic market where the bigger player wins. If another big player joins Indonesian market and tries to dominate, it's gameover for most of our fintech.
no idea how they need fee from seller. its possible the greedy mafia one need more money from big tech.
Mekari who?
Both mekari and goto product should focus on consumer / business partner. In the east consumer is king. But you're correct, there are some company that should focus to support their service. i.e. luxury goods company
Don't forget that Amazon also did that until very recently. Indeed, their profit is mainly from cloud servers business instead of online shopping business, which is still touch and go even today.
I see, so this is why their discount offers are getting worse. Back in 2021, Gojek lets us use 2 discount coupons for an order. Now it's limited to 1. Also noticed that their driver fees are getting way too high, to the point where it costs more than the food I order,
The last one is normal to all apps, ordering food is generally for big group instead of personal order. They are making loss if not. As for the 2 discount coupons, That's because it happened when COVID is all time high, so more user.
I noticed a huge price difference between the food if you go to the restaurant and if you buy it through gojek. The other day I ordered 2 hotdogs that were 40,000 rupiah each through grab. I went to the restaurant and the price was 20,000 rupiah per hotdog. I know gojek has got to make money but come on, 50 percent mark up. I need to stop being so lazy and just go out and get the food.
@@danieljones1784 same case with shopeefood, but i can get lower price (than gofood) by going out to the resto - then scan QR code & redeem shopeecoins up to 50% food price. not every merchant support it though, so it's a trial-and-error process to find out which merchant support coins redemption
no it’s not. The fact that they’re doing that means that their userbase will still hold onto them despite cutting out promos. Just because you don’t like that a feature isn’t beneficial to you anymore, doesn’t mean their business is dying because of it. To increase competition they have to provide more value to the market than their competitors, in a way that would make sense investment-wise. I guess they saw that the promos didn’t really help extend their userbase other than the one they already have. This reminds me of the Apple vs Samsung vs other tech companies’ rivalry. I think they have to be either a pioneer in something (being a pioneer always sucks though because the other companies can just copy it and make it better), or I guess cast a wider net to the market, idk
@@danieljones1784 partner fee is 20% so if the price difference is 50% or more, than its merchant responsibility. cause they want to get more profit. and i never see the 50% price difference just like u said, maybe the higher i found is around 25% .
They are doing poorly in short term speculation laden stock market. However in term of market dominance they are undoubtedly still and will still be the king for years ahead. They are in unique position of being regarded as the market leader, local representation, and also the best in quality/availability. Yes, Shopee (Tencent?) for example is around the same level of popularity and market share, but if anything they are much more aggressive in cash burning and has much weaker secondary products (e.g Shopeefood vs Gofood). They will survive.
I don't think so
Are you indonesian?
Tell me, which app offer more discount, grabfood or gofood?
I think we can all tell, gofood offer miniscule discount like 5 thousand rupiah while grabfood still offer 20% to 35% food discount, see they're in trouble
Tokopedia, see now you can't take the "bebas ongkir" (no shipping cost) with other discount, you can only take 1 discount, no shipping cost or price cut
Also have you interviewed "supir gojek" (gojek driver) lately?
Now it's harder to find passenger, while grab or maxim more common now
To make it easy just open the app and compare price gojek vs grab, often times grab offer better price even if its only 2k-3k rupiah less
@@LexicroftAlpha GoTo generally lose or not winning in two areas, marketing and promotional discount budget. Neither of them are included in three factors that I have mentioned (if you are going to argue that the super clustered and laggy Shopee app is better than Tokopedia, I would just laugh at you).
If you only consider promotional discount budget, it is difficult to quantify which one is actually the better one because (in case of you doesn't know) discounts and promotional differs depending on where you live and who you are.
If you want my personal anecdote for food delivery as an example, I have and often use all three of them. It has reached a full cycle of Gofood > Grabfood > Shopeefood > Gofood again as the app who most often give the cheapest price. Grabfood is actually the least competitive right now in term of pricing, while Shopeefood keep reducing its discount and has very restrictive price eligibility for discount. In my area for the last few months gofood actually has several happy hours programs per day which offered great pricing and is not artificially limited/not fake discounts and a slower delivery option that make delivery completely free, which made it as the winner for pricing right now.
However as I said I'm not adding pricing to the discussion because living in different city gets you a different experience. As for "drivers complaining about reducing orders/income", surprise surprise that anecdote has always been happening for all drivers in all apps for the last several years. That alone is not an indication of anything.
Because this is just stupid valuation business. You know who the real winner will be? The last to join the competition, might be shoppee, or who knows if there's another corp, since they will have more money to burn to win the market share.
The winner is consumers
@@LexicroftAlpha didn't you use it all cause here goride and gocar have cheaper price than grab, gofood much much cheaper than competition.
Tokopedia is Amazon like online outlet ,while Gojek is Uber with motorbike that also serve food and package delivery. It's a bit scummy though because some of it's investor are government official, or related with one of them. Some of Indonesian state company also invest money, controversial moves that make them in loss soon after IPO.
Of course they will. E-commerce and ride hailing combined? That's Uber's wet dream probably 😂. Grab will have to burn much more to compete. Combining Grab and Shopee, now that's scary for GoTo.
e-commerce and ride hailing are both cash burners
and Goto needs to compete with specialists in both industries
vs Grab for ride hailing
vs Shopee for ecommerce
(Shopee does have Shopeefood, but I feel like they would cut off Shopeefood anytime to save Shopee)
Grab and Shopee burn more money, lose even more, so I think 2024 will see who wins, hopefully it lasts.
The problem is tokopedia, its already losing customer, more people in indonesia shoping more on shopee.
As a e-commerce consumer, I feel better experience using tokopedia compared to shopee, shopee had far better promotion thou, probably because they had more money to burn. For ride hailing grab and gojek seem similar.
@@dorayap7734 they come to shopee just for the discounts. the experience, costumer services, and reliability of the seller is well done in goto
Yeah, tokopedia and gojek is not burning money like they use to. I still remember up to Rp. 200.000,- cash back for some purchases in tokopedia, or the big discount when ordering rides or food on gojek in the past. Those discount vouchers almost never happens again.
Right now shopee (e-commerce, food services) and grab (rides, food services) offer a better discount for customers. And since people will shifted to services that gives the biggest discount, most of go-to users have shifted to their competiters.
Yep, me too. Now using shopee and grab ever since gojek and tokopedia have useless discounts and outrageous fees and delivery charges.
You didn't use flashsale program in gofood then
True. I move to Shopee. I was loyal Tokopedia user
since when shopee offer a good discount except when it's on flash sale? not to mention their free delivery fee is basically a bullshit
as an employee of one of GOTO competitor, I can tell you that we are, the employee, is fucked up because the growth of our company is slowing down and already firing employee left and right
Wow I didn’t know that! I used Gojek for transportation purposes only, recently was so difficult to get a car when I was in jogja, took three times after cancellation finally get a driver that almost needs 20 minutes in order to arrive.
even though Grab Food or Grab Bike sometimes feel cheaper, to this day, i'm still using Gojek as my primary and Tokopedia as my main e-commerce site, since i installed those app first and made their accounts first, and used Gopay for the digital transaction first. Too many apps and accounts made me headache. I think that's a small way to help this local company survive... it's not much, but i think it's the best for me rn.
Based 👍
yea ovo pay sucks ass but shopeepay is on par with gopay
Tokopedia too mamy hidden fees for even for buyer. They make insurance as default but cannot claim the insurance. They just wantbto increase the price for their benefit.
as a loyal shopper of tokopedia, recently i really feel they have some serious problem, esp in their shipping partners. I still believe tokope has its advantage, as a consumer they really have better customer service and provide better security than shopee, but they just need to be careful! cos shopee is catching up, cutting of benefits due to bad times is understandable, but there is no excuses that basic shipping/service quality should dropped!
Please ask Tokopedia to enter Malaysia's market. I have lots of stuffs I want to purchase from Indonesia (especially comics)
Coba anda pesan pesan komik, dari tokopedia dengan layanan gojek...katanya bisa sampai🤣🤣🤣
@@maumuapa4198 benaran? Gw serius nih
Kalau cuma komik sih, chat aja ama sellernya, kirim via pos jg bisa itu mah.
@@redeunuch2989 Kos hantarannya akan lebih mahal. Ya bisa aja guna Shopee tapi, pilihannya terhad.
@@supayakamupercaya w sering baca komik walau pun anime belum keluar...apa yang gak gratis sih di indonesia.🤣🤣🤣
I think there are a few things to be factored in :
1. goto is indonesia based,while SEA and grab are singapore,cost in indonesia is a lot cheaper than singapore,so goto having $2M and SEA and grab having $8M or more is still in the acceptable margin.
2.the biggest market in SEA is indonesia,and goto still have a good hold on it,not to mention goto is also diversifying both it's service and investment portfolio,because goto is now also involved with electric vehicle production with a major energy/mining company in indonesia,and it is also the 2nd largest shareholder of bank jago through it's subsidiary.
3.GoTo is quite politically well connected,nadiem makarim(Gojek founder) is now minister of education,garibaldi thohir(main commissioner) is the brother of erick thohir(minister of state owned enterprises),and most importantly,goto is indonesia's own star tech company,so the government will definitely give a certain preferential treatment to it.
4.goto is also involved in financial services like mokaPOS and midtrans,both are used by many businesses for it's daily transactions,for example if you go to a new cafe,there is a good chance the cashier uses mokaPOS,and midtrans will be used by many stores accepting qr payments.
It's not there yet,but this might be a seed to be the digital qr version of visa or mastercard in indonesia.
Depending on political factions are very risky, you wouldn't know which faction dominating in the next election
@@multatuli1 relying on political connections is not exactly stable,but in indonesia the political field is relatively stable,and if there are a regime change,it won't kill the company,at most only stifle it.
It will only be trouble if the ruling regime needs a distraction issue,and they become the target.
But the key here is GoTo is an indonesian brand,the government,with whoever in charge wants to have an indonesian brand at least control the domestic market,or risk being called a traitor.
@@multatuli1 Politic in Indonesia is generally stable as even changing ministers couple time by the president, there are little to no effect politics stability (I mean they are exactly the same, rarely major big changes)
They need to cut a lot of cost, especially their executive salaries and benefit.
We just love discount.
Why? Because founders are not businessmen and lack business acumen. Investors pour money to raise valuation n pull out fat profit later on. Investors never care about the future of the company. It's the founder's job to steer the ship but they all went down the hell hole. To reach profitability like Amazon it's almost impossible at this stage
I think with how impactful they are in the indonesian economy and society, a bail out may happened. (One of the co-founder is part of the current ruling regime)
I lost about 30% of my capital value in Paypal, Amazon, and Disney during 2020-2022. If you asked me what I think whether GoTo is sustainable? I think not, Paypal shares plummeted because of greedy investment in Crypto. Amazon due to failing to support their workers and union, and blatant dishonest practices, despite their profit were astronomical. Disney failed because nobody can afford to visit their parks during the pandemic and people just had enough of them. The bottom line for any business is that the company should not focus on greed and pocketing profits outside of their main business, companies must ensure the people are dependent to their service regardless of the competition, and most importantly that companies must threat their workers as if their life depends on it, so most critical is ensuring their workers can live sustainably, before taking any profit. These three things are what makes Microsoft, Google, CVS...etc maintain confidence in the market even throughout the pandemic.
You see... they will survive, why? Because they are too big to fail.
Government will somehow bail them because they are source of income for a lot of people.
It is simply main source of income for middle and low income groups.
When I say bailing out by government, it is a loose description, it doesn't only mean government giving money directly, it might be with bond, government contracts, and so on.
@@Dominus_Potatus they already have bug investment from Indonesian state company
The government already no money
No wtf bro. GoTo only contribute for about 2% of Indonesia's GDP (source google). Its not big enough that the government need to save them if they go bankrupt. It need to be as big as samsung for south korea for that to happen (20% south korea GDP are from samsung). Or maybe if even just 10% its worth saving.
I mean they bailed Century Bank
glad I just buy the stock for fun, still losing the capital but not selling either🙃😅
oh they may sink to the deepest abyss alright, but i'm still gonna use them.. atleast for now and foreseeable future because the other competitors are just as bad if not worse as they're
really wished amazon would step in here and uber to just hit back then just take over the whole ecommerce and ride-hailing industry already
Uber can't be back for the time being because they already sold their business to Grab. It would be stupid for Grab if they didn't put that in the deal.
SEA (Shopee/Grab) and Goto thinks they can become like Amazon.
Like Amazon, its initial days was a loss making business model.
But e-commerce is a very small part of Amazon's income earnings, something maybe the these two companies need to look into.
Yup. Iirc most of Amazon income comes from Amazon Web Services.
@@stabbypandarogue8164 They make their name from online shopping, but they make their money from web services.
Those 3 are bigger than Amazon here 😁
Even Uber can't even compete
@@stabbypandarogue8164 the most of aws customers are cooprate who not complaining about the price and the popularity. Is different case on SEA region which most them are want cheapest as possible with greater quality on popular brand only.
There are two major problems that technology startups in Indonesia are facing, especially when they are going public. Stop burning cash and start to think on how to make real profit, and stop paying your employees with salary much higher than market value. Honeymoon period is over, overseas investor are keeping their money, grow up and change your business model.
Sadly it's more widespread startup problems worldwide not just Indonesian startup silly. Even grab and shoppee too have same problems
More or less that's how start-up company works
Bro that's how start-up company doing their business. If you stop burning cash, then your customer will shift their preference to another app. Once you lose the competition means you're dead. That's how the modern business model going on right now, it's all about competition. If you don't want to burning cash and focus on real profit, you need to make a product that no other people can make, so you can monopolized the market. As long as you have competitor, you can't focus on real profit.
@@reihardiansht6897 you have a wrong mindset, competition doesn't mean you can't make a real profit. There are dozens of other tech companies that have big competitor, selling the same products and they are making big profit just fine. And profit doesn't always come from selling products, management efficiency could also lead to profit indirectly if the startup companies are managed correctly. Look there's definitely a miss management here in Indonesian startup, and they should do something about it or else it's game over for them.
@@hast.. "dozen tech startup selling the same product making real profit just fine?", Show me which one? You only see the last standing tech company that finally can able to survive after a long time of spending and profit loss. There is a tough competition in tech company. One or two can survive but many others are failed. Goto condition is just the normal problem happen in startup business worldwide, not just Indonesia. Did you know that Spotify still can't make real profit until now? And Netflix need more than 10 years to finally make profit. Goto is relatively new company compare to others tech company, it's almost impossible to get a real profit in just a short time. Miss management, probably i agree with that, but burning money is mandatory, can you imagine what happen if Tokopedia & gojek stop burning money by not giving big discount? They will lose customer competition with shopee & grab. Once they lose there is no way they can compete. Forget about real profit if you lose the competition.
when retail price online is at lower than the actaul retail price, with minimum profit margin everyone will suffer. price wars and when everyone is happy to earn 10 cents with minimap operatng cost.
who will have have money to buy online when everyone is pushed out of their business, offline, resellers, suppliers, distributors, factory. everyone is at war. who can afford to employ anyone. we may see increase in unemployment
no one is safe.
Tokopedia app doesn't even have English version.
Goto annual income can't even cover their staffs's annual wages.
Eh really? How many staff do they even have? Isn't almost everything automatic? I figure their staff is very low in number.
@@SandLion Quite a lot actually. There is a WHOLE building (+ shopping mall) being used as the gojek HQ.
Plus: I think their salary level is a little on the crazy side. As far as I understand, a fresh grad software engineer at gojek gets paid pretty much 3-4x the average starting salary of a typical fresh engineering grad in any other local Indonesian company. So their opex is a little on the higher side. It kinda...spoils the SW engineer market 😅recently i've heard of an ex gojek SW engineer (practically a fresh grad with
I don't understand. How can these companies be running at billion dollar losses every year and still be able to fundraise? Surely as an investor I want my dividends, or as a loanee I want my loan back plus interest. Where is that money coming from? If I open a coffee shop, I lose $100,000 a year net, and my shareholders and bank are waiting to be paid, I go bankrupt.
The bet is that when they take over everything they can then charge whatever they want. However this kind of American thinking never really works out in practice but now you've conditioned your customers with the subsidized price
They inflated the company valuation and selling their stocks at ridiculously overpriced ipo
Stock price eventually will rise as the company growth
Same, I don't understand either. So it's either that they didn't really lose money and just said so to avoid tax, or they really lose that much money and still managed to get investor's money.
IPO. It's why any company went to stock market, otherwise why would they want anybody else get a share of their assets? By selling part of the company share, they get a lot of money which they then use to expand (or burn).
This video is so light on analysis. Disappointing. Nice clickbait
So if all their life is about survivability then when will they pay off their shares holder devident?
Fyi, its surviving, the stock already went up by 16 percent today
Malah makin banyak yg jual kalau terlalu naik . Stigmanya udah negatif untuk beberapa minggu ke depan
Mereka yg hold pasti panic sell, karena untuk mengurangi kerugian yg lebih dalem
Mungkin perlu 4 bulan untuk benar2 pulih
@@dhingdhong61 ngga, bisa liat sendiri di order book nya kok ini datanya open to public loh.
@@maulidanis.harahap1436 ini masih hari ini
Kita liat beberapa hari atau minggu ke depan
Karena saingan goto
Grab lagi bagus2nya
SEA juga bgitu
Jadi aga berat sih menurutku
@@dhingdhong61 Iya sih, setuju sama opini nya ga bakal 100% balik cepet. Tapi menurut gua goto ga bakal mati se gampang itu, karena perusahaan nya juga mempunyai backingan blackrock dan banyak lagi. Panic sell juga ga bakal se parah sebelumnya.
intinya, GoTo bakal survive
setidaknya sampe tahun baru
Mungkin ada yang mengambil keuntungan besar bukan panik...tapi ini saatnya yang tepat membeli saham yang sedang turun dari peruhaan mendapat untung tapi saham turun🤣🤣🤣
what external problems are they? I think it was important to note it in the video as it was really relevant
Gojek Consumers now have to pay admin fees to use their services and sellers have to pay higher fees to open stores online.
Just be the best of yourself, defeat yourself not others, learn from other mistakes not follow them, no matter how big they are or how small are you, cusomers knows which one is good in the end.
I'm disappointed they didn't merge into Tokek
Im not using goto anymore cause the competitor is cheaper. I still use tokopedia, but shopee seems interesting
I use Huawei smartphone. Gojek is not available in Huawei's apps gallery, but Grab is.
Only dumb ppl buy huawei. No freedom.
@@mak2048-d1u Freedom from what?
0:21 that number is questionable. Indonesia's population is a shy of 300mil. There's no way a third of them are Tokopedia users😑
Gojek and Tokped already create many job.
Lets hope that they will keep it
Used to love shopee and only shopped at shopee. Then gojek and tokped merged then i jumped ship because of the gosend promo and the minimum charge for a gratis ongkir and they always cut 20k off at that. Shopee was doing 10k and 15k only. Then they ALWAYS just suddenly charge and increase all kinds of fees. I am a diamong member di tokped, but the services are not as claimed. Often times i have to wait longer than claimed for a reply. I would have to resource dropping my friends name just to get them reply me fast. One time they called me within minutes cause i dropped my friends name who are working on the Uuuuupppper position at tokped. Its annoying but thats just how it is in indo, ALWAYS. And then now they have the plus package that ANYONE in jawa can just buy. I bought it and felt that having a diamond member is useless now. Cause anybody who bought it will have the same access as diamond. I’m very disappointed and slowly jumping ship back to shopee😅😅😂
Most of the questions and facts in this video are relevant to all tech startups around the world. At the end, it is an entirely different business model.
I use the platform almost every day. Wouldn’t mind NOT investing in it though lol
60% of T. Assets is goodwill, and people still purchase it thtough IPO. Well played.
When u grow by asking money through the top, what do you expect?
Gojek (GoPay) and Tokopedia are important apps for Indonesian. I wish they will survive and stop burning cash by hiring high tier KPop Idols. Sorry to say but it's useless.
It's not just them but also shopee and others. They wouldn't ALL be doing it if it was useless.
Please stay. Without competition, it won't be healthy.
So this is Mamaearth situation of Indonesia?
You have to give value to the market to trump competition. I saw a comment saying Tokopedia has more guy things than girls and I absolutely agree that they should start putting women’s interests in there. I think having an all-encompassing environment is important, if you look at Walmart and other stores which are basically retail they take ALL AGES and ALL GENDERS into account, while specifically targeting low income people at the same time. I also think at some point they should start combining their services like LINE does.
Tokopedia is still better choice than crappy shoope. They just fired good talent and kept corrupted one, is kinda sad. And also worst UI, services and constantly defending the fake seller who sell fake, kw stuff.
Biggest problem with Tokoped, its products are full of fakes, cheapskates and seconds. Indonesian consumers have little recourse or protection from such practices. Unlike Amazon, claiming a refund from Tokoped is a tiresome experience that makes most people give up trying. As a result, people returns to the old Mall shopping way. Sad.
Delivery fee issue makes me move to Shopee. The delivery fee is outrageous.
mati aja sih gojek, dulu dia nolong sekarang mulai nyiksa merchant dan driver terlalu banyak mereka ngambil keringat orang di belakangnya, usaha gak berkah, semoga bankrut
They are very rich especially tokopedia and traveloka, the sum of their saving account in BRI is really huge
My oppinion
Its attacked by same new startup whois back up by china and overseas
SHOPEE WILL WIN
Grab didn't have any merger right? Why or how does grab have larger cash held?
The simple answer was a lot of people use grab more than gojek, grab rides are cheaper than using gojek and the fact that grab have a lot of frequent discount for their food service compared to Gojek
Arent SEA and Grab both in trouble as well?
Ayo bebanin lagi penguna applikasi sendiri.
Pajakin lagi penjual and pembelinya.
Pelit² diskon lah sama customernya, ngak kayak grab.
Lama² juga wasalam.
BA as in Business Analyst
It will absolutely survive:
1. They almost have everything they need for the ecosystem.
2. They have a strong root for Indonesian local users.
3. In short: they have a strong fundamental. With this fundamental, we can take Amazon as an example. Amazon was good, then the stock price slipped down, and now they are great.
1. Lose to Shopee and Grab domination.
2. root is garbage. price and discount is the king
3. following others footstep of others is not a good fundamental.
im user dan seller on both platform. GOTO is acting and playing like they are the master in Indonesia, trust me they are NOT and they will in deep hole with these mindset. Consumer have right to choose and doesnt even care about the Big Name or the origin of the venture.
And u really wrong my friend
Indonesian people love low prices and big discounts
And gojek+tokopedia burned their money to make it possible
Now they don't have any more money to burned,so they will increase the fee+price and lower the discounts
It wont make them grow more in Indonesia
And u don't see the big picture,don't u?
The reason gojek+tokopedia grew so fast before=because of covid
So many Indonesian people stay at home and use gojek and tokopedia to buy stuff
They can survive but they wont be able to grow as big as before,unless there's another covid pandemic with a bigger scale
If u are an Indonesian,u should aware of this
Indonesian people don't care about brand/loyalty,they care about the discounts and low prices
Tf bro when amazon stock were going down the company itself is already in a good condition. They are profitable and does not need to burn money to survive. You cant compare the two.
Kalau promo makin ilang mereka bakal.ditinggalin ah
Profitability speaking, online shopping part of Amazon is not good, it's mediocre to hopeless. Amazon profit is from their cloud servers business, which made most of Amazon profit.
Will Indonesia's Largest Technology Company Survive? It will because Indonesian already now them better than anyone and it's more comfortable to use
In my experience, Tokopedia is the safest E-commerce.
Tokopedia always improve the balance between Customers and Sellers, they growing so fast around 2020-2021 because of Covid-19, people can't go out, so buy daily necessity through Tokopedia, and buy meal from Gofood. So if the analyst data source from Covid Years, it's not fully accurate (My Opinion)
Well every start up company lost money. The question is, is it as succesful as goto?
Yes it will, the fall in stock market is nothing to do with real market
Nah gojek’s price gradually increased by 70% . Ppl ate leaving it
Maybe?
i dont know much about tokopedia business side like their fee etc. but i know verywell about gojek since i am a merchant and they be making alot of money from it. the seller fee + costumer fee and they rarely doing a big promotion but still so many people use it.
It's a shame both goto and sea cut jobs just to keep up the competition. Employees are the biggest value of a company
customer is bruh.. money and greed wins😶
I think it's their main blunder
I have so many friends who worked in Tokopedia/Bukalapak before
Their salary is very big(minimum 5 times the average salary for fresh grad,at least in IT department)
So they also burned so much money for salaries
@@alexponco4753 That's the country's job industry problem of standardizing very low wages. Other sectors should compete and raise the overall average salaries instead. A country cannot prosper if their common citizen is paid peanuts and be stuck in a low wage class forever.
Employees are just replaceable cogs for them
as a consumer, there's 1 thing from tokopedia and gojek respectively that stopped me from using me their services anymore.
small thing that made me stopped using tokopedia is that the amount of dummy stores that has no reviews which sells items with jacked up prices. to my knowledge, these stores are just dropshippers which is fine, but they're not really legit. they just took the order and then order the items themselves through tokopedia or shoppee, then pockets the profit without being really affiliated with the original stores (hence the unreasonably jacked up prices).
i stopped using gojek services because of the price spiking after their initial launch. again, this is fine, i get that they're burning money through vouchers and coupons, huge discount, etc to get traction with new users. but after this phase ends, they really don't handle it well especially with the gofood services. the price skyrocketed compared to their competitors, and you can't even chose the vouchers or discount you want to use in your transaction because gojek applied it automatically to your order. that'd be fine if it works well but it doesn't. more often than not the biggest discount isn't used (through some additional rules that is somewhat hidden and hard to understand from the pov of consumers), and the discount that is actually used don't really affect your price significantly. to lose the ability to chose and apply the vouchers myself is pretty infuriating. and to top it off, the obvious discount bait such as "90% OFF!! capped at $2" (though gojek isn't the only one to do this, but with the way their voucher system works, cmon).
You forgot to mention the biggest threat that is Tiktok Shop.
Yea lol, Its freaking cheap. A lot more cheaper than shopee.
Man this company waste so much money that easy.
Burning so much money from investors without certainty of real profit..is plain stupidity
no worry, i keep buyin below 100, 80, 60 and last 50
Lmao, imma try my luck and buy some at 80s :D
Will Behind Asia survive the competitive UA-cam landscape by uploading purely online-researched news?
Exactly, way too much real finance insights and good content. Don't know why youtube pushes this out, given that whoever made it didn't even google correctly since they blabbel about goto when SEA is in much bigger trouble
@@TheBBromberg iqro, ini video bbrp bulan lalu ttg SEA ua-cam.com/video/MeTka3MDnUM/v-deo.html
Or they can just sell to grab 😮
C'mon, what do you expect in a company who made a loss on each their transaction??
too big too fail , BlackRock the largest venture capitalist on earth has invested in GoTo
ftx?
And don't forget our biggest network provider also invested heavily there
And wef, gates and blackrock "investing' into robotics farming. In a nation where farmers already have it tough, this is frightening monopoly and state collusion.
So what? Their "investment" can be withdrawn at the drop of hat whenever they feel it's no longer make sense.
2022 I almost reaching Diamond level in Tokopedia, and yes, more and more increase of prices, way less promotion, or promotion with absurd terms and conditions, well 2023 time to leave GOTO since they no longer concern (loyal) customers
by the way, garena has left SEA
Let's always do alot of good and encourage others to do the same 🌈
Goto has become too big to fail, since it provides a lot of jobs for ordinary Indonesians. If it can't keep afloat one day, government will step in to help
The burning money part sounds like tax evasion more than anything else for me. Idk maybe its just me
all indonesian "tech" they said, belong to "ALIBABA".
🤣🤣🤣
ITS CHINESE TECH
ccp is shadow govt in Indonesia.
and dc swamp the go to make knock-offs.
Gojek :O
I feel like GoTo is already too big to fail, at least not in the next 5 years or so
When you rely on domestic alone it will burst
Hayolo yg beli goto gara" FOMO :))
In Indonesia we don’t really use Grab, and never heard of Sea, the realistic competitor is Shopee
Lol Sea is the holding company of Shopee
And really 'in Indonesia we don't really use Grab' u sure ur Indonesian
This is a shame to Indonesia.
Tech workers are simply paid too much
Failed company .no other than absorbed investor money and burned it. Finish.
Impossible to survive if the company can't make any real profit.
'Burning Cash ' is not only silly, it is IDIOTIC business idea 😀😋😁
That's my stance from years ago.
too much ad...too much...
they are sucking their user