One of the best movie duels I've ever seen; combatants who get tired, a fight that is as much a brawl as a fencing match, and actors who look like they are actually trying to kill each other rather than simply hit the other guy's blade to make a nice clashing noise. I also love how he uses his sword as a mace to break Lee's block at 1:37, not many people seem to know that you can use a sword that way (though presumably you need pretty thick gloves).
People saying that Christopher lee is an amateur sword fighter, you are so far from the truth, Christopher was the only member of the cast that could actually use a sword.
The "convincing" part was, how sloppy they were at the end, because of sheer energy used up to that point. They were both leaving themselves open at points, and the other didn't press because they were convincing how really exhausted they were. Swords are heavy, especially back in those days.
Wow! This was an awesome scene that came across as very convincing. I loved some of the camera angles, and it was cool to see that the actors themselves did so many of the stunts.
They probably were really tired. Christopher Lee mentions how hot it was filming in the summer of Spain and they wearing heavy period clothes and fighting in high heels.
THE BEST version of The Three Musketeers on film!! Oh, and The Four Musketeers was not a "sequel." They were filmed all at once, and the actors paid for ONE movie. Much arguing and legal wrangling ensued after that happened.
Christopher Lee is an expert swordsman, classically trained in both sport fencing and authentic medieval martial arts. This is an actual authentic example of the fighting men-at-arms did at the time, albeit drawn-out for a good show. You're used to 'sport fencing' which was developed specifically for smallsword duels, and has never been used in actual military conflicts, or 'Flynning' which is a bunch of swishing and parrying and utter nonsense.
@NicholasGeschke True, except it was Oliver Reed that Christopher Lee had to remind they were just acting during their duel earlier in the film. Mainly because Oliver Reed had refused to take part in any of the fencing lessons and just did his own thing. Michael York is a theatre trained fencer like Christopher Lee. See him as Tybalt in 'Romeo and Juliet' in 1967.
@TankUni You can see it in the Duelist and Rob Roy..but you are right it adds realism to the fight and a sense of desperation that you dont see. People fight for ever and shoot unlimited bullets and never break a CGI sweat.
I love how Rochefort always looks the same. Black hair, one eye, epic deep voice. D'artagnan is always changing, Michael York, Justin Chambers, Chris O'Donell, they all look different.
Yes, but this is supposed to be more realistic than movie swordfights, in which both combatants care less about having a stance and more about killing one another. In movie fights, one simply parries every single attack up and down. And keep in mind this is not fencing, this is an actual battle. The dagger he is using isn't meant to attack with, but to parry and break the opponents sword. They "hop" because they are actively getting close to the other and attacking. Try fencing in a real battle.
idk... he probably didn't really need his stunt double in star wars lol it's not even sharp enough to hurt him like his older stunts did. at least he had a say in the shape of the handle lol
Best European martial arts movies before we realized there were European martial arts. Realistic main gauche work. In the first movie we had a pro who used two rapiers. And we had Raquel Welch to boot.
@rhivideo Yeah and the setting in a church very classic..a holy quiet place the setting for such a desperate fight. The clashing of the swords breaking the peace...The young nuns running away is like D'Artagnan losing his youth and innocence to the realities of life. At any other time he would have never thought to fight in a place like this. The voice of reason from the older nun ignored symbolizing that this is desperation and revenge there is no talking no reason.. someone has to die.
actually all movie fights are kind of unrealistic, a real fight would last seconds... that why there are points in fencing, if it is just for contact, all matches will be over very quickly.
Way to many detailshere, but one thing is that in an "actual, authentic" rapier fight in that time there would actually be more thrusting, since that's how you can do the most damage with that weapon. Rapiers were not meant for slashing and hacking, which is what dartagnan seems to be trying to do the entire time.... Also, theres absolutely no reason to hold the blade of ur own rapier and try and hit him with the pommel. That technique was only used with medieval longswords and broadswords.
Needs to work on his ground and pound after getting the full mount. Or transition into the armbar submission. Conversely, Christopher Lee could have moved for the rubber guard and transition into the triangle choke.
True, but real fights rarely look graceful and elegant, so it's realistic in that regard. A martial artist in a movie is going to fight differently from a martial artist in a street fight, after all.
Really? Most of what he was doing in this clip was thrusting attacks. It only looked like he was hacking away because his attacks were being parried left and right.
1) There is a proper stance for a reason. It gives you the maximum reach and leaves the minimum amount of your body exposed. In a "actual battle", they would get killed in about five seconds. That is why this fight is no more realistic than any other fight. 2) A movie sword fight at least should look like the characters know what they are doing. This scene looks like both of them had never had more than a day of instruction. 3) clearly, a dagger can be used to kill someone as well.
Honestly I would have loved to have seen Alan Rickman play the role... but I suspect we actually *have* seen Rickman's Rochefort in "Robin Hood Prince of Thieves"
"Above all things, a gentleman is to fight with dignity and poise; shouting not, mocking not, merely engaging and paying his opponent every respect, whoever they may be." - 16th Century French Swordsmanship D'artagnan has a lesson or two to learn: 0:25 and 0:52 and 2:05 . 2:30 is understandable, but 3:11 ? Blasphemy!
Well, the bastard did help to kill the woman D'artagnan loved, and had the Cardinal's ear, so I feel the time for rules was pretty much over at that point.
Sir Lee is of course a very good actor and I love his portrayal of both count Dooku and Saruman. I understand that this battle was probably epic for it's time, but for me it is a bit old school. I prefer more modern versions - don't throw stones on me, please.
He seems he must have ignored his "training" and listened to whoever coreographed this awful scene. Clearly, if u knew anything about swordfighting you would see how flawed this scene is and recognize this is an abysmal portrayal of any realism, the closest it gets is to a portrayal of two bumbling amatuers. Just look at how disgustingly imbalanced they are, on the verge of tripping over their own feet ever sec.
I think this is the worst sword fighting in movie history. It looks absolutely horrendous as well as being completely unsound swordfighting. They have no stance, they hop around like they're doing some demented jig. Not once do you see one of them lunge to make an attack. And when they do attacj it's horribly overextended. The coreographing as well is quite terrible. How is it that you can't stab a man sitting right on top of you when you're holding a sword in one hand and a dagger in the other!
One of the best movie duels I've ever seen; combatants who get tired, a fight that is as much a brawl as a fencing match, and actors who look like they are actually trying to kill each other rather than simply hit the other guy's blade to make a nice clashing noise.
I also love how he uses his sword as a mace to break Lee's block at 1:37, not many people seem to know that you can use a sword that way (though presumably you need pretty thick gloves).
People saying that Christopher lee is an amateur sword fighter, you are so far from the truth, Christopher was the only member of the cast that could actually use a sword.
Christopher Lee vs Michael York...Dracula vs Pterano...Scenery chewer vs even great scenery chewer.
What more can be said? Sheer brilliance.
The "convincing" part was, how sloppy they were at the end, because of sheer energy used up to that point. They were both leaving themselves open at points, and the other didn't press because they were convincing how really exhausted they were. Swords are heavy, especially back in those days.
Wow! This was an awesome scene that came across as very convincing. I loved some of the camera angles, and it was cool to see that the actors themselves did so many of the stunts.
The epic final battle between Count Dooku and Basil Exposition...
And Basil won.
this duel is absolutely amazing
They probably were really tired. Christopher Lee mentions how hot it was filming in the summer of Spain and they wearing heavy period clothes and fighting in high heels.
best sword fight scene ever... most realistic
THE BEST version of The Three Musketeers on film!!
Oh, and The Four Musketeers was not a "sequel." They were filmed all at once, and the actors paid for ONE movie. Much arguing and legal wrangling ensued after that happened.
Actual rapiers, not foils, and actual fighting... I am impressed.
Christopher Lee is an expert swordsman, classically trained in both sport fencing and authentic medieval martial arts. This is an actual authentic example of the fighting men-at-arms did at the time, albeit drawn-out for a good show. You're used to 'sport fencing' which was developed specifically for smallsword duels, and has never been used in actual military conflicts, or 'Flynning' which is a bunch of swishing and parrying and utter nonsense.
That's something you don't see in a lot of modern films, the combatants get tired...
@NicholasGeschke True, except it was Oliver Reed that Christopher Lee had to remind they were just acting during their duel earlier in the film. Mainly because Oliver Reed had refused to take part in any of the fencing lessons and just did his own thing. Michael York is a theatre trained fencer like Christopher Lee. See him as Tybalt in 'Romeo and Juliet' in 1967.
brilliant films and brilliant castings to match
Rushing forward in a rage in combat. A guaranteed way to get yourself instantly run through anywhere but in a movie.
2:30 - "now, let's see who you REALLY are!" *whips off eyepatch* "The KING?" "Thankyaverrymuch!" My mind works in strange ways xD
@TankUni You can see it in the Duelist and Rob Roy..but you are right it adds realism to the fight and a sense of desperation that you dont see. People fight for ever and shoot unlimited bullets and never break a CGI sweat.
2:57 that is a really good counter and finishing move
@Jensaarai1
And they didn't call him "Count Dooku"...
I love how Rochefort always looks the same. Black hair, one eye, epic deep voice. D'artagnan is always changing, Michael York, Justin Chambers, Chris O'Donell, they all look different.
and that, friends, is fight choreography by the great William Hobbs - look up his Rob Roy fight with Liam Neeson ....
Christopher Lee=Ultimate Bad Guy
Christopher Lee was known as one of Hollywoods best swordsman .
How'd you come to that conclusion?
Although counter to the Dumas masterpiece I found great pleasure watching watching M.Dartagnan fight to the death with his man of Meung
Yes, but this is supposed to be more realistic than movie swordfights, in which both combatants care less about having a stance and more about killing one another. In movie fights, one simply parries every single attack up and down. And keep in mind this is not fencing, this is an actual battle.
The dagger he is using isn't meant to attack with, but to parry and break the opponents sword. They "hop" because they are actively getting close to the other and attacking. Try fencing in a real battle.
CL actually knows the sound a real person makes when they die of a blade wound. Somehow.
You forgot Saruman. :P
How does Christopher Lee come back in the second film when he dies in the first one?
He died in the second film, not the first. (He did return again alive in a third film "Return of the Musketeers", which made NO sense.)
idk... he probably didn't really need his stunt double in star wars lol
it's not even sharp enough to hurt him like his older stunts did.
at least he had a say in the shape of the handle lol
now this is an actual fight with swords.
Best European martial arts movies before we realized there were European martial arts. Realistic main gauche work. In the first movie we had a pro who used two rapiers. And we had Raquel Welch to boot.
holy shit is that Dooku?
Darth Tyrannis
Why not prove your point by posting a video demonstration showing how you would 'fought' that scene?
@rhivideo Yeah and the setting in a church very classic..a holy quiet place the setting for such a desperate fight. The clashing of the swords breaking the peace...The young nuns running away is like D'Artagnan losing his youth and innocence to the realities of life. At any other time he would have never thought to fight in a place like this. The voice of reason from the older nun ignored symbolizing that this is desperation and revenge there is no talking no reason.. someone has to die.
actually all movie fights are kind of unrealistic, a real fight would last seconds... that why there are points in fencing, if it is just for contact, all matches will be over very quickly.
Way to many detailshere, but one thing is that in an "actual, authentic" rapier fight in that time there would actually be more thrusting, since that's how you can do the most damage with that weapon. Rapiers were not meant for slashing and hacking, which is what dartagnan seems to be trying to do the entire time.... Also, theres absolutely no reason to hold the blade of ur own rapier and try and hit him with the pommel. That technique was only used with medieval longswords and broadswords.
Needs to work on his ground and pound after getting the full mount. Or transition into the armbar submission. Conversely, Christopher Lee could have moved for the rubber guard and transition into the triangle choke.
True, but real fights rarely look graceful and elegant, so it's realistic in that regard. A martial artist in a movie is going to fight differently from a martial artist in a street fight, after all.
HAHA, I love the nun, "SWEET JESUS!"
A mordhau with a rapier? IT'S MORE LIKELY THAN YOU THINK.
Really? Most of what he was doing in this clip was thrusting attacks. It only looked like he was hacking away because his attacks were being parried left and right.
1) There is a proper stance for a reason. It gives you the maximum reach and leaves the minimum amount of your body exposed. In a "actual battle", they would get killed in about five seconds. That is why this fight is no more realistic than any other fight. 2) A movie sword fight at least should look like the characters know what they are doing. This scene looks like both of them had never had more than a day of instruction. 3) clearly, a dagger can be used to kill someone as well.
Lee lost his swords at 0:53
To be fair, the rapier he carried is too heavy for him.
Christopher Lee = best Rochefort ever!!!!!!! He is a goooooood!!!
Honestly I would have loved to have seen Alan Rickman play the role... but I suspect we actually *have* seen Rickman's Rochefort in "Robin Hood Prince of Thieves"
@NCWC2 And a new Basil Rathbone.
Also Saruman vs the Antichrist
1:36 *MURDER STROKE*
@archer111000 And we have Jeremy Brett and Hugh Dancy's D'Artagnans.
@clavery0909 Well, Hugh did, too, in Young Blades(2001)!
0:53 they both lose the sword, but next shot doesn't think so
D'artagnan has elected the way of pain, it seems.
If D'Artagnan was Richard Sharpe he would have beaten the shite out of Rochefort the moment he had him locked on the floor.
and then he comes back to life in 20 years after?
Captain Hook Vs Basil Exposition
"Above all things, a gentleman is to fight with dignity and poise; shouting not, mocking not, merely engaging and paying his opponent every respect, whoever they may be." - 16th Century French Swordsmanship
D'artagnan has a lesson or two to learn: 0:25 and 0:52 and 2:05 . 2:30 is understandable, but 3:11 ? Blasphemy!
Well, the bastard did help to kill the woman D'artagnan loved, and had the Cardinal's ear, so I feel the time for rules was pretty much over at that point.
You do not seriously think you can contend with the will of Rochefort?
there was both. Either way, each time he thrusts he's completely off balanced and completely over extending himself. Looks ridiculous.
It's clear that any serious discussion with you about this is pointless, as you counter historical fact with your own -opinion-. Good day, sir.
It's realistic because they both look like amatuers? Could be. I just think a movie has much better ways of making a fight look realistic...
@NCWC2 I would agree, I really would. But...Tim Curry trumps the man.
0:54 Rochefort drops bolth sword and poniard 0:55 Magicly has them again. :)
Visit a rapier class in a historical fencing school, you'll understand my point perhaps
Never bettered.
Rochefort? isn't that a smelly kind of cheese?
Maybe the Dark Side had clouded his emotions.
:)
Darth Tyrannus has a much nicer ring, tis true.
Take that Bible!
HAHAHA! @ "SWEET JESUS!"
Sir Lee is of course a very good actor and I love his portrayal of both count Dooku and Saruman. I understand that this battle was probably epic for it's time, but for me it is a bit old school. I prefer more modern versions - don't throw stones on me, please.
Rochefort reminds me of smelling cheese! ^^
Nope. Tim Curry.
He seems he must have ignored his "training" and listened to whoever coreographed this awful scene. Clearly, if u knew anything about swordfighting you would see how flawed this scene is and recognize this is an abysmal portrayal of any realism, the closest it gets is to a portrayal of two bumbling amatuers. Just look at how disgustingly imbalanced they are, on the verge of tripping over their own feet ever sec.
I think this is the worst sword fighting in movie history. It looks absolutely horrendous as well as being completely unsound swordfighting. They have no stance, they hop around like they're doing some demented jig. Not once do you see one of them lunge to make an attack. And when they do attacj it's horribly overextended. The coreographing as well is quite terrible. How is it that you can't stab a man sitting right on top of you when you're holding a sword in one hand and a dagger in the other!