FYI even though I've asked in the video to leave out atmos politics in the comments section I'm still getting the same repeated shite I see on EVERY atmos related video now. I'm all for contrast but I just can't have tin foil hat stuff on my channel. I'm too literal for that shite and I CANNOT have my channel resemble gearslutz and Facebook forums where its just a sea of misinformation coming from opinion completely devoid of any relevant experience. If you want to give your opinion on my channel then I urge you to base it from a place of actual experience and fact, not just speculation and conspiracy. I'm so bored with the quadriphonic, 3d tv, bla bla bla references. It's just irrelevant. You can dislike it all you want and refuse to watch the content but I'll still make it because it interests me and i couldnt give a fuck about what the popular opinion of the day is. I stay true to myself and tbh I quite enjoy the hate towards atmos cause it reminds me what it used to be like on this channel. Making content on what I was consumed in and educating people on what I learned regardless if the main consensus was against what I was making content about. That's called REAL content, not content that's made intentionally to please a large number of society to get more subscribers, views and likes. If there's one thing I pride myself on, it's being able to stick 2 fingers to public opinion and believe in the decisions I make. Also for extra context here are 2 documented setups mentioned in the video Focal alpha www.scvdistribution.co.uk/pro-audio/news/trevor-michael-chooses-focal-alpha-evo-atmos KRK rokit blog.krksys.com/2022/10/19/new-immersive-dolby-atmos-studio-instrumentoz-relies-on-krk-rokits/
I would love for a format like Atmos to be the standard in the future and used at the production stage and not just for mixing because for now the fact that it has to be done after a stereo mix is a major problem and won't allow music production to really expand outside the boundaries of stereo . Also , I don't think that attempting to gaslight those ( most likely the majority of your audience ) who are still against Atmos is the right approach here ,there are no conspiracy theories ... actual experience and facts tend to indicate that unfortunately Atmos is widely ignored by the general public and disliked by most music producers and audiophiles . When CDs or even mp3 download happened , the general public responded very quickly , not the case for atmos .
It's not gaslighting at all. It's asking people to back up their shit. That's all. I couldn't give 2 fucks if you like the idea of atmos or you don't but pushing misinformation isn't going to help anybody. How can somebody that's unsure possibly make a decision about something if all they are told is stuff that isn't proven by people who don't have any real knowledge or experience of what they are talking about. Speak to those in the industry, so many of them have atmos rooms and are mixing in atmos, it's here right now and the fact is.. There are those getting work, and there are labels asking for it. Theres something WAY off with atmos right now. Everybody online seems to be saying its pointless and you won't make any money but I'm looking all over guys I know in the industry and loads of them are silently building atmos rooms or already mixing atmos. Something just doesn't smell right and Im trying to make sense of what's actually going on. This confusion and misinformation is exactly what has been crippling the audio community for decades. Nobody knows if atmos is gonna stay or become a permanent requirement in the next 5 or 10 years. The fact is we don't know but everybody has their pitchforks up claiming that they know the future and don't waste your money even though most haven't even heard an atmos mix in an atmos setup. Right now atmos is a risky investment. Nothing is guaranteed. Nobody can tell whether it's a good or bad investment but... We won't be able to paint a true picture unless some of us invest and share our experiences. I'm not asking ANYBODY to invest their money in atmos, but I will invest mine and over time paint a realistic picture of how my investment panned out. Crowding over a crystal ball isn't helping anybody and never does .. Thats my 2 cents and I'm not afraid to go against the grain and talk about it
@@PaulThird I mostly agree but the " industry " will face bigger problems than atmos with AI .... and btw one the things that stopped me to invest in atmos speakers a year ago was the fact that it was either impossible or very expensive to be able to listen ( for reference ) to apple music atmos mixes on the speakers I would use for mixing . Did it change ? is there a way to be able to do it without a major investment ( like the one described by andrew schepps ) ? I you manage to find way to have a very affordable system that avoids things like the andrew schepps apple music hack or the very expensive trinnov , you might start changing people's mind ... finally , I hope it isn't required to be approved by Dolby if you want to work for labels or be easily approved on streaming platforms .
Atmos is a strange one where the masses can't really listen to it but labels are still asking for it. There was talk at NAMM about advanced headphone technology being available to the average consumer next year sometime but that's all speculation. An no, dolby has stopped the whole dolby verified thing. There was gate keeping at the very start but as far as I was told when I enquired, they've stopped it and it's not necissary any more
Really appreciate you putting this together Paul! To go through the setup in the first place is a task and a half... yet alone create videos, so thanks!
Just the thing I was looking for. Thanks, Paul! I've been thinking about an atmos setup with a budget around $ 4K . Any thoughts on a setup with 7 Adam T8Vs, 4 T5Vs on the top and a T10S sub? I'm already familiar with how Adam T series sound.
I'd check the dolby DART excel sheet to see if those Adam's are listed, just so you can ensure you can get the right reccomended room placement for each speaker
It’s not that it’s expensive (it is in some ways but that’s not my issue)- I just am not into the sound of Atmos - I don’t want music all around my head, I like stereo. However I do feel it’s a great thing for film so your advice will no doubt be useful for some.
@@firewerk66 I'm not convinced by Atmos for music myself, it's amazing for film, but for music, it just doesn't make any sense to me, but only time will tell.
Thanks Paul! curious about the cheaper receiver options etc as well. Nice to know that there are reasonable options for speakers. Most every video i have seen are getting a genelec setup or something absurd lol
My advice from experience, if your on a budget buy a half decent Hi Fi surround and supplement it with a paid of Studio Monitors. I have two setups, one using a decent Atmos Receiver with Q Acoustics 3000 series speakers the other using a audio interface with ADAT extension into 6xCrown/QSC power amps (giving me 16 inputs and outputs) into a range of speakers/cabinets managed by Nuendo and DaVinci since both support Atmos natively. With the audio interface you just assign what channel does what, centre front surround subs etc with the Atmos amp I use ASIO since it picks up all channels available on the amp by default when the PC is setup for Atmos I even messed around with VA Audio software but seriously that will drive you bananas !! I started off with a simple 5.1 then added the second sub since it balanced the bass so much better and then the ceilings which I started by using JBL Studio One Monitors, there GOOD and finally added the second set of surrounds giving me in total, a lot of speakers and a spiders web of cabling !!! For the subs we ended up adding a 2x10 cab with Celestion BN10 300s inside cos subs/centre were never clear enough great for Booms/kick but not a bass guitar or floor toms. I did all this during lockdown when I had plenty of free time and nothing much else to do cost me a small fortune and yes it was fun but also infuriating. Great for movie effects but for audio/music? naaa The plan was record a concert (visual and audio in multi channel I also have a big mixer with a audio interface built in back to my surface pro) and then master/mixdown the video in Atmos, in the end I asked myself, WHY !!!!! UA-cam only supports 5.1 as do most streaming services and in low quality so really you have to ask yourself who and how will anyone appreciate all the hard work and investment?
the label guys I talk to are pinning a lot on the car industry. Immersive audio is apparently the next big focus for car manufacturers. It's already in a few higher priced motors and the idea is that it's gonna be more widespread in coming years. Immersive setups go in cars, they'll need immersive mixes, and the car industry won't invest in something that it can't playback. Supply and demand, thus why many industry guys are investing in setups now. Atmos is a risky investment, no doubt about it but when you see guys at the top of the game investing in immersive setups, then theres a reason.. People are thinking home setups when there is already binaural headphones (which sounds fake as shit to me but the tech is advancing all the time). Atmos for music is a waiting game. The industry is waiting on the technology so they remain at the front of the queue
@@PaulThird Mixing with immersive sound in mind, brings with it a whole bunch of new challenges to the sound engineer. Unlike stereo where the sound is generated in front of the listener now its 360', effects are true effects reverb/delay is your key to success and has to be understood and mastered. Can you mix in immersive sound for every lister in mind? Environments are all different sound treatment room shapes and sizes, whilst you might mix in the perfect room most listeners environment will probably be far from perfect. Should a studio album have you in the middle whilst a live album should correctly and accurately replicate the actual venues acoustics? With movies mixed in immersive sound you have a world around based on where the camera is so thats easy to replicate but for music specifically a studio album? Pink Floyd tried this with their quad version of Dark side of the Moon which when mixed in 5.1 sounds awesome but it was written and produced with immersive sound in mind, thats not true of 99.999% of albums. I have bought the rest of their remixed albums in 5.1 and there poor disappointing rubbish but they were never written and produced with immersive sound in mind. Over the past couple of days I went back and revisited immersive sound mixing. I took the Oasis multi tracks and sat down and thought, what should I do to mix these in immersive sound? First I imported the drums into Superior Drummer so I have all those lovely room mics and the drum kit is broken up into individual channels/stems but what do I do with the rest? DO I want to be sat in the middle of the drums like I was playing them with the rest of the band around me? or do I want to try and mix it like a live album in a venue not a studio? Or do I want to stand in front like a conductor or at the back like a spectator? or in the middle like the sound engineer at a gig? IN fact NONE of them are right since with immersive sound you would change the whole song and how its recorded and mixed. Panning from left to right now transforms into front to back even front bottom to rear top left to right etc. Is it really worth the effort and could it actually completely ruin a song? Sorry still think its a gimmick and none starter
I'm not arguing about the creative side. I agree that there isn't a set standard for mixing atmos however I would argue that if artists start producing songs with atmos in mind then it'll obviously make more sense. However the issue is then insuring that the stereo fold down still makes sense. It's kind of mixing back words where just now it's about taking the stereo mix and simply making it bigger. Maintaining the artistic decisions and just making certain decisions that can further emphasise the stereo mix and still translate. For example when scheps was talking about it and showcasing his mixes at NAMM he was showing how the front 3 speakers is where most of the mix lives. Fx at the rear speakers which is simply further emphasising the depth created in stereo. Any obvious panning decisions in stereo can be further emphasised with automation or adding stuff to the side speakers. From what I've heard from people mixing atmos it's not about creating something different, it's merely expanding the stereo mix to an immersive setting where the immersive mix is almost dictated a lot by the stereo. Theres a lot of creative issues but when done right it makes a lot of sense as both immersive and stereo coincide BUT my thing about atmos is purely business. I think atmos will be a thing purely because of business not because of the art. That's my point
@@PaulThird The reason I considered immersive sound was taking a live gig and then making a UA-cam video of the gig which now supports 5.1. SO I planned on taking a direct multitrack recording (meaning all the stems going into the desk not just a stereo mix) from the venue mixing desk into my own gear either via a audio interface or direct USB into my surface pro. I even bought a X32 Compact and SD8/16 digiboxes linked to a surface pro and a ton of mics as well as the Motu M4 and M-Audio Fast Track Ultra I already owned with the view I had to capture the audience and use when there was no specific venue sound system (rare nowadays) and it wont have mics positioned to capture the audience. Anyway my point was to take a live recording and the create a usable marketable recording and with Video there is an argument to be made about exploiting the benefits of immersive sound for streaming platforms like UA-cam. Going forward I believe many artists are going to go their own way and not use record labels. They will have a manager who works with gig promoters and the studio work will be done privately either at home or in small studios. There is even an argument to be made about recording rehearsal sessions in fact like Jimmy Hendrix did, record EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE. When it comes to EDM and Rave type genre most of these artists create their music in a DAW anyway and so their need for a studio is limited since they probably already have the gear at home and maybe only involve a sound engineer for final cut and mixdown. If these artists move into immersive sound it will take off it not it wont since this is todays music kids listen to (Im now 58). I wont make a comment on what I think of the music cos I rarely listen to it, only when forced and no option sorry just talking off the top of my head and what comes into my old brain. I invested about £9k in gear for the project and in the end NEVER used it once. That said much of it was worth a lot more than what I paid so should I sell it all I will be in pocket not out of pocket since it was bought beginning of COVID when no one wanted it and the studio it came from was closing down, most of it was BRAND NEW at the time many mics still in their boxes unopened SM57/SM58 (including A/beta versions) think I got 10 of them in total. The studio had just invested 15K on a upgrade and I bought it all for just over half. It also included a load of QSC/Crown amps and a ton of speaker cabs with a large variety of separate celestion speaker drivers many unopened unused. I sold one of the decks (a digico thingie) and almost made my money back on that alone !! Thats not including all the damn guitars and keyboards I treated myself to during lockdown, erm yeah I went a little mad. Then I upgraded my main computer to one of those Asus Creators mobos, that wasnt cheap either !!
The iLoud MTM's do make back some money with the cost and less effort mounting them... also with acoustics because they are easier to tame... but I also find I have to enjoy the sound on my speakers so my thoughts of a cheap Atmos setup is constantly going around and around, this helps narrow things down a little bit for me... currently looking at the kali's, but the IN models and the very cheap looking a the Tannoy golds because I like the way these sound and Atmos mixing is more about where to place something than how you cut and shape things together and might not need such critical listening
Yesss been looking forward to this series! I’m looking to get an Adam Audio set up with their A series. Please can you cover the audio interface side of things, would love to see realistically what options there are.. Thanks Paul!
dolby atmos means that you,ll have to do 2 mixes otherwise dolby atmos collapse wont work well in stereo due to not having to the same spacing as you have to in a steroe mix
I have a pair of little Genelec 8010 that I use for mobile work. They cost like 260 quid and could be a cool Atmos start. Maybe I should get another 9 of them and check it out ;-)
I think Atmos is a cool idea, I haven't heard it, but it seems great for different applications. I remember listening to Dark Side Of The Moon in surround for the 1st time, which was novel and interesting, but not anything I couldn't live without. I think it would be great to go to a listening room and pay to hear an album in Atmos. That would be just like going to the cinema really, or even like the days of my youth, going to the record shop and asking them to play parts of a record before buying. There's the whole social angle of that. I can't imagine hating it. I don't know whether I'd shelve out the money for an Atmos room, and I'm not sure the average punter would either, but yeah, going to an Atmos Music "event" sounds great, I could tell my wife it's a date! What I don't like is the rumour that some platforms such as Spotify or Apple will only distribute Atmos mixes and not stereo, I don't know if that's true or not, but it seems to be exclusive rather than inclusive, but that's a business practice rather than a complaint against Atmos itself. Then again, I don't like Spotify or Apple Music that much anyway and wouldn't bother my arse subscribing to it, because, just like the old record company's, they exploit the artists.
That's how I see it where I am. Create an experience around it so others can experience it. On the apple and Spotify front, it looks like they are hoping that the atmos fold down to stereo will be good enough to get one file to work for both. That's why atmos is mixed in stereo first and then stems exported and mixed in atmos. That way you can still get a coherent stereo mix in the fold down because what you can stop clashing by placing things to different speakers in atmos, will clash in the stereo fold down, so you mix in stereo first, sort out your tonal stuff, create your stereo space.. Then expand that in atmos. If mixers can get the stereo fold down to translate or sound better than the stereo then that one immersive file can provide atmos and stereo..best of both worlds. So stereo mixing is still needed until there is a time that mixers can mix in atmos from the start and get good stereo translation or until everything is immersive but I doubt that would actually ever be a thing. So as it stands now it's about stereo and immersive coinciding with each other in one format that works for both. That's how I kinda see atmos growing and becoming a thing but it will all depend on the immersive experience technology can provide to the consumer alongside the stereo fold down quality.
So if I was to go Atmos, I'd go with the IKM MTMs. Multiple reasons: 1. I know the MTMs and can work on them well 2. Setting up MTMs is a cakewalk - (rotable "wall-stands" by IKM FOR MTMs are available (~50 Bucks) 3. Would look less "invasive" But yes, Kalis would've been my second choice for a budget atmos setup. Focals are great when you invest some money, I don't know how their budget products are. But I have the (discontinued) Focal Spirit One Professional headphones and that's as tight as it gets. The clarity and punch are hard to beat - I have headphones twice the price that are wider and maybe a tiny be more detailed (in perception, due to the wideness), but also muddier (Beyerdynamic). I'm not going atmos, but since I've already rambled about the whys under another video of yours, I'll spare you - this one time!
@@PaulThird TBH that's not something I had to think about yet. I'd probably start with a subless setup. I realize that longterm I'd need at least one sub, but I think the only way to do that right is to try out a couple of them. So I'd order different subs and try out different setups and compare - then take it from there. I understand that you need some temporary budget for this. But I also wouldn't be afraid to write to the people at IKM. I can tell they had atmos a bit in mind with the MTMs, so they probably have some experience in the matter!
honest video. Unlike some commentators, I saw it to the end, so I am not gonna whine about Atmos. In fact, nobody knows if this will be the new standard in 20 years (although we can make predictions). Since we don't really know, it's good to have options. Another response to some commentators: if you are a musician and not a professional mixer, just stay with your 2 speakers. If you are a professional mixer, you have some tough choices to make. But I do have a comment about labels: 95% of the music that comes out nowadays from labels is trash! Pure, unfettered trash. And you professional mixers will have to listen to this shit for the rest of your lives. Now, immersively in 7.4.1 speakers! I really don't understand people who choose this profession...
I think a big issue is that all the focus is on atmos and not the fact that you are building a multi purpose immersive room. It's how you make the most of it. At the end if it I'll have a cinema room / treated stereo mixing room / ADR tracking room / tv & film editing room/ atmos mixing room / immersive music listening room If atmos mixing becomes a requirement for every artist on every platform in the future then I'll have a room and setup to offer that service but if it dies then my studio still offers other immersive based services
Atmos works great in movie theaters where you have a carefully crafted audio listening environment. For music, it's shite. I've not heard a single Atmos mix I thought was better than stereo when collapsed to 2-ch. stereo, which is what everyone has and uses. There's arguments that Atmos is still early in adoption, but I think that's a cop out when you have reference mixes and can easily compare the two. That said, I do encourage everyone to dive headlong into full Atmos setups, just because I look forward to getting a fantastic deal on liquidated Atmos studio monitors when everyone else finally comes to their senses and realizes Atmos is shite.
@@PaulThird Literally every time I go to the movies. Or did you mean strictly music listening? In the latter case, only in cars, because that's the only listening environment where it's convenient to do so, and even then, the listening conditions are thoroughly sub-optimal. For Atmos to succeed it has to show that it is superior to LCR mixing when collapsed down to 2-channel stereo, and it hasn't done that yet. Not even close actually. Where Atmos has an advantage, is quickly training mix engineers how to create room reverb reflections more correctly. So many producers have fuck-all clue about how to accurately re-create the room space they want using 2-channel, and end up with all these wishy washy sounding reverbs of different room spaces on every channel and bus send stomping all over each other and creating a huge mess in the mix, and then explain the mistakes away as "stylistic license" or some other such cop-out. Atmos allows you to hear reflections properly in a 3D space moreso than 2 or 2.1 channel mixing since you have opposing speakers for creating initial surface reflections. But once you have best practices learned using an Atmos setup, it's easy enough to then back-port those approaches to 2-channel again and we're back where we started.
Right.. so you've not heard a music atmos mix in an atmos room? So how can you say atmos sounds shite when you haven't been in the correct environment to listen to it? I've been in proper setups and had the original stereo mix (not the fold down) played and then the atmos mix. When it's done right I much prefer the atmos. Where you've got a valid point is the fold down issue in many cases but I've spoken to engineers working in atmos who admit it's hit and miss. Sometimes the stereo mix remains the preference, sometimes the fold down is preferred. But the real issue that everyone is avoiding is that the end consumer doesn't give a shit if they are listening to a fold down bounce. The fold down bounces don't sound like absolute abominations. It's not like we are substituting it for badly compressed low quality mp3's.. And even still the consumer is mostly listening to sub par monitoring so it's irrelevant. Speak to those in the car manufacturering industry. Loads will tell you that immersive will be the new thing fitted into modern cars. I've spoken to a few guys and they've told me they expect immersive audio to be in most new cars in 2-3 years. However, speculation. Nothing concrete as of yet so nothing to pin your investment on. Atmos is all business. You can see virtual reality being pushed, immersive audio in cars, apple pushing their Headphone sales. Right now it's got fuck all to do with audio quality unfortunately. It's industry engineers preparing for a new format of audio that's being pushed as the technology advances. That's where all this future proof stuff is coming from. Here's the thing, if the car industry takes it on and implements it globally then millions will be listening to immersive audio. Which means us engineers will have to provide immersive mixes. Doesn't matter if it doesn't really work, the industry will demand it and you either conform or get left behind. The risk is the fold down becoming the new stereo. If that happens immersive mixing is unavoidable. We'll all have to provide it. If the car manufacturers implement their version of immersive then you bet your bottom dollar this will be in tandem with the streaming platforms as what are we playing in our cars?.. Spotify, tidal, amazon bla bla the car industry won't shell out billions on immersive audio systems unless audio can be played back on it Its all a game of chess and those in the industry are making their moves now. Right now, atmos has fuck all to do with audio quality. There's not even "set standards" yet and engineers are still experimenting with what works best. Atmos just now is a waiting game, and if the technology allows it, guaranteed it'll be the new selling point of tons of stuff. Apple aren't daft, they are moving early and everybody is watching them like hawks. Quadriphonic, 5.1..the technology was never there to put in the hands of the common man. But you can see today it's getting there. It's where the tech is moving. Zuckerberg ploughing billions into meta. We live in a world where technology rules the roost. Everything else that came before atmos was in a time where technology wasnt readily avaliable to the consumer. Think of this video.. 12 top quality speakers for £2700. Optimum grade hp amps for under £200, studio grade conversion for under a grand, smart UHD tv's for under £600 Open your eyes man.. Technology rules over artistry. Listen to the charts ffs. All sound the same and dictated by a social media platform. Ryan Tedder said it himself. You don't get a hit right now unless you break Tik Tok. He even said the song matters fuck all now. It's all luck and marketing. If the industry decide immersive audio is the future and the techs there to give consumers 25% of the overall affect.. Its getting pushed down our throats like everything else. Its business, not art, but when it does become a thing and artists and producers start making music with it in mind there's no going back. That's why I'm taking the risk now cause if it becomes a requirement in a year or 2 time.. Prices will sky rocket cause they can. Nothings set in stone and all speculation but you just need half an eyeball in the industry to see the amount of guys investing in it
@@PaulThird The inconvenience is the point. What are you on about, I just told you I've heard Atmos mixes in a car (specifically the S-class) and everyone has heard them in movie theaters during credits roll, and I think it really offers no appreciable difference over a standard stereo mix tbh. I used to work for Google from '07 to '12. They came up with so many harebrained products which never caught on, it's laughable. I beta tested Google Glass, it was a miserable failure. I tested Google Plus, and every employee said it would fail, they released it anyway, and it did. Ask Meta how VR is going. And you can damn well bet even a well-resourced company like Apple is going to absolutely biff many releases. If you haven't been paying attention the way big tech works, they don't listen to their users, they piss away money on a million shite products, maybe 1-2 have sticking power, and then in 4-5 years their CEO takes a massive severance package to pass the torch to the next clown who will fuck things up similarly. Let's not pretend that just because "big tech" is involved that this is somehow a sacrosanct product we should all just accept. The market will decide, and my prediction is due to the inconvenience of listening environments required, much like every other immersive audio spec that's been tried, people will hand all those involved w/ Atmos for music a path to the door. Time will tell.
Hey Paul, As someone who watches a fair few of your video's, I'm going to suggest that I am probably the "everyman". I am interested in what you have to say but I am not an expert mixer, nor am I having bottomless pockets. I think what I am trying to say is, a Dolby Atmos set up is not what an audience who are still learning how to EQ, Compress, use effects effectively and understand how to mix in stereo are really in need of knowing.I understand that you are keeping up with the current trend but all the gear, with no idea is not the way forward. Would it not be better to at least suggest that Dolby Atmos is not something to even attempt unless one has a solid grounding in already creating great stereo mixes. The reason I say this is because I can see many people rushing out and spending a lot of money before they are able to reap the rewards of mixing in this new format.
Nah I'd disagree cause dolby atmos is easier to mix to a certain extent. Remember where we are right now, in many cases the atmos mixer gets the stereo mix done by somebody else. Your job is basically just panning and levels if you look at it in its simplest form. The stereo mixer has already done the hard work in regards to balance and dynamics. You take the stems and place them in an immersive setup. It's your job to ensure that it makes sense in immersive and that the stereo fold down isn't completely losing the original stereo mix. Its a different mindset to stereo mixing. It's more panning and placement than anything else. For me anyway, we should always be learning. That's how we grow as engineers. You'd probably learn a lot by doing atmos as you are receiving mixed stems. You are learning what elements sound like, how they piece together, tonal balances, dynamics, fx etc That's how jaycen joshua learned, by listening to Dave Pensado. He knew what 'pro' sounded like before he'd even got the chance to do a label mix. You have to seperate atmos like you would mastering. It's a different process. Not discussing about how to mix in atmos is like telling people not to learn about mastering when mixing. You need to understand industry expectations and how the end result is achieved. Knowledge is key to growth. Without knowledge you are simply bashing around in the dark in the hope you will bump into enough stuff to build a picture of how the room looks. Just because you may not be at a skill level to achieve professional results doesn't mean you shouldnt gain knowledge on how to achieve professional results.. Experience and knowledge go hand in hand and you really can't achieve success without having both.
There are many things I don't want you to speak about, Dolby Atmos isn't one of them. I won't be doing Atmos, but I love seeing new innovations. My hobby studio is about fun and there are so many better ways to spend money for personal fun when making music.
I'd like to see an ultra, ultra budget system, only to be used for panning. That includes a legitimately terrible multitrack DAC out.... Then you'd do all of your critical listening and tweaking on headphones. For those who just want to qualify for Apple playlists. F*** Apple.... Atmos doesn't even translate well into binaural audio... It's unfocused, phasey, syrupy and over process sounding with too many strange ambience resonances. i don't think it's really something most people are going to want to listen to. It's fatiguing..... After filling around with it briefly and trying to adjust..... The music feels so much more high-fi when you turn that s*** off! The only way it might start to sound more convincing with earbuds is if they add head tracking.
Don´t waste your money and time on an industry constructed demand. I believe you will regret this in the future. Your audience isn´t really interested in this topic as well I would guess. I like you, it´s not a front - just a thought.
Tbh i don't really give a shit if my audience is interested in it or not. I'm done making content to appease others. Too many caped crusaders out there now telling the people what they want to hear to get more subs and likes. Fighting battles they have no proper knowledge about. It's completely spineless and only perpetuating the idea that you follow the agreed norm of society in order to gain popularity I believe I can make quite a bit of passive income from having an immersive setup. Village cinema room, ADR, tv & film, immersive band nights, artist release nights, production, checking binaural atmos mixes, not just mixing music in atmos. Normally my investments are right for my situation and I don't really see this being an exception as I'll make the most of every angle an immersive setup can bring to my situation. I put a lot of thought into this As soon as it pays itself off there will be no future regret for me
@@PaulThird ok, that´s a different angle on your take on it. Hopefully it works for you! Also it is totally ok to don´t give a shit about your audience but imo it would be sad to loose your interesting, funny and truthful content. Your growth and recognition from people like Warren Huart came from your mindset and your content. But maybe it´s time to go another road for you. It´s not worth it if you´re finally bored with the content you did the last years. Wish you all the best.
This is my truthful content. Making up shit that appeases my audience isnt. As you can see, I'm just a bit pissed off at the state of youtube right now. Its either guys shilling hard or caped audio crusaders pretending they are in it to protect the wants of the audio youtube community, when really they are working just as hard to make money as others. Either are not real content in my eyes. It's just a paid opinion or an opinion crafted by the mass agreed opinion of the day to get more subs and views to make more ad revenue and get more free shit. It's not content coming from the gut and it's not honest either. It feels like hardly anybody is being honest with their channel any more I just rather people made content that they are genuinely interested in, not cause the algorithm tells them thats what their audience wants. I'm genuinely interested in atmos and everything that goes into it, and it's where my head is at right now. That's always been the key success of my channel. me documenting the learnings around whatever rabbit hole im down. I get it that most of my audience don't care but the tin foil hat stuff and misinformation surrounding atmos is really grating me as its all speculation and comes from a place of zero fact or experience. It just doesn't help our community, it turns it more into gearslutz which is what I really don't want youtube to become. If atmos doesn't work for me after 6 months to a year then I'll tell you all but it'll come from a place of actual experience that has proper context around it. I don't think we should ever lose the context on this platform. You lose the context it turns into gearslutz and failed "experienced" engineers talking shit online to those starting out in the hope they can feel better about their own failures and regain some pride and boost their ego. . That's what I'm seeing more on this platform. Talk is cheap, so ensure you back your shit up
You may assume theres not any wife which will allow their hubby to install a proper dolby atmos speaker setup in HER living room. So how does a dolby atmos fuelled car sound?
FYI even though I've asked in the video to leave out atmos politics in the comments section I'm still getting the same repeated shite I see on EVERY atmos related video now.
I'm all for contrast but I just can't have tin foil hat stuff on my channel. I'm too literal for that shite and I CANNOT have my channel resemble gearslutz and Facebook forums where its just a sea of misinformation coming from opinion completely devoid of any relevant experience.
If you want to give your opinion on my channel then I urge you to base it from a place of actual experience and fact, not just speculation and conspiracy. I'm so bored with the quadriphonic, 3d tv, bla bla bla references. It's just irrelevant.
You can dislike it all you want and refuse to watch the content but I'll still make it because it interests me and i couldnt give a fuck about what the popular opinion of the day is.
I stay true to myself and tbh I quite enjoy the hate towards atmos cause it reminds me what it used to be like on this channel. Making content on what I was consumed in and educating people on what I learned regardless if the main consensus was against what I was making content about.
That's called REAL content, not content that's made intentionally to please a large number of society to get more subscribers, views and likes.
If there's one thing I pride myself on, it's being able to stick 2 fingers to public opinion and believe in the decisions I make.
Also for extra context here are 2 documented setups mentioned in the video
Focal alpha
www.scvdistribution.co.uk/pro-audio/news/trevor-michael-chooses-focal-alpha-evo-atmos
KRK rokit
blog.krksys.com/2022/10/19/new-immersive-dolby-atmos-studio-instrumentoz-relies-on-krk-rokits/
I would love for a format like Atmos to be the standard in the future and used at the production stage and not just for mixing because for now the fact that it has to be done after a stereo mix is a major problem and won't allow music production to really expand outside the boundaries of stereo . Also , I don't think that attempting to gaslight those ( most likely the majority of your audience ) who are still against Atmos is the right approach here ,there are no conspiracy theories ... actual experience and facts tend to indicate that unfortunately Atmos is widely ignored by the general public and disliked by most music producers and audiophiles . When CDs or even mp3 download happened , the general public responded very quickly , not the case for atmos .
It's not gaslighting at all. It's asking people to back up their shit. That's all. I couldn't give 2 fucks if you like the idea of atmos or you don't but pushing misinformation isn't going to help anybody.
How can somebody that's unsure possibly make a decision about something if all they are told is stuff that isn't proven by people who don't have any real knowledge or experience of what they are talking about. Speak to those in the industry, so many of them have atmos rooms and are mixing in atmos, it's here right now and the fact is.. There are those getting work, and there are labels asking for it.
Theres something WAY off with atmos right now. Everybody online seems to be saying its pointless and you won't make any money but I'm looking all over guys I know in the industry and loads of them are silently building atmos rooms or already mixing atmos. Something just doesn't smell right and Im trying to make sense of what's actually going on.
This confusion and misinformation is exactly what has been crippling the audio community for decades.
Nobody knows if atmos is gonna stay or become a permanent requirement in the next 5 or 10 years.
The fact is we don't know but everybody has their pitchforks up claiming that they know the future and don't waste your money even though most haven't even heard an atmos mix in an atmos setup.
Right now atmos is a risky investment. Nothing is guaranteed. Nobody can tell whether it's a good or bad investment but... We won't be able to paint a true picture unless some of us invest and share our experiences. I'm not asking ANYBODY to invest their money in atmos, but I will invest mine and over time paint a realistic picture of how my investment panned out.
Crowding over a crystal ball isn't helping anybody and never does .. Thats my 2 cents and I'm not afraid to go against the grain and talk about it
@@PaulThird I mostly agree but the " industry " will face bigger problems than atmos with AI .... and btw one the things that stopped me to invest in atmos speakers a year ago was the fact that it was either impossible or very expensive to be able to listen ( for reference ) to apple music atmos mixes on the speakers I would use for mixing . Did it change ? is there a way to be able to do it without a major investment ( like the one described by andrew schepps ) ? I you manage to find way to have a very affordable system that avoids things like the andrew schepps apple music hack or the very expensive trinnov , you might start changing people's mind ... finally , I hope it isn't required to be approved by Dolby if you want to work for labels or be easily approved on streaming platforms .
Atmos is a strange one where the masses can't really listen to it but labels are still asking for it. There was talk at NAMM about advanced headphone technology being available to the average consumer next year sometime but that's all speculation.
An no, dolby has stopped the whole dolby verified thing. There was gate keeping at the very start but as far as I was told when I enquired, they've stopped it and it's not necissary any more
Really appreciate you putting this together Paul! To go through the setup in the first place is a task and a half... yet alone create videos, so thanks!
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Just the thing I was looking for. Thanks, Paul!
I've been thinking about an atmos setup with a budget around $ 4K .
Any thoughts on a setup with 7 Adam T8Vs, 4 T5Vs on the top and a T10S sub?
I'm already familiar with how Adam T series sound.
I'd check the dolby DART excel sheet to see if those Adam's are listed, just so you can ensure you can get the right reccomended room placement for each speaker
Fantastic job with the video Paul. You nicely explained everything 👌
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Thanks, Paul..excellent video as usual. Much appreciated. 😉👍
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It’s not that it’s expensive (it is in some ways but that’s not my issue)- I just am not into the sound of Atmos - I don’t want music all around my head, I like stereo. However I do feel it’s a great thing for film so your advice will no doubt be useful for some.
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What about presonus eris xt 5 monitor?
Dunno you'd need to check the DART spreadsheet
How much extra is paid by a client for an Atmos mix? That's the big question.
I'll let you know when I get to that stage 🤓
@@PaulThird Cheers Paul. One question aswell though. Sorry if you've already made a vid about it, but what interface have you got to run it?
That's coming in part 3 or 4
it's a gimmick. it's not going to catch on, it's too expensive and impractical. all for the speaker companies to drain money out of folks.
@@firewerk66 I'm not convinced by Atmos for music myself, it's amazing for film, but for music, it just doesn't make any sense to me, but only time will tell.
Thanks Paul! curious about the cheaper receiver options etc as well. Nice to know that there are reasonable options for speakers. Most every video i have seen are getting a genelec setup or something absurd lol
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My advice from experience, if your on a budget buy a half decent Hi Fi surround and supplement it with a paid of Studio Monitors. I have two setups, one using a decent Atmos Receiver with Q Acoustics 3000 series speakers the other using a audio interface with ADAT extension into 6xCrown/QSC power amps (giving me 16 inputs and outputs) into a range of speakers/cabinets managed by Nuendo and DaVinci since both support Atmos natively. With the audio interface you just assign what channel does what, centre front surround subs etc with the Atmos amp I use ASIO since it picks up all channels available on the amp by default when the PC is setup for Atmos I even messed around with VA Audio software but seriously that will drive you bananas !! I started off with a simple 5.1 then added the second sub since it balanced the bass so much better and then the ceilings which I started by using JBL Studio One Monitors, there GOOD and finally added the second set of surrounds giving me in total, a lot of speakers and a spiders web of cabling !!! For the subs we ended up adding a 2x10 cab with Celestion BN10 300s inside cos subs/centre were never clear enough great for Booms/kick but not a bass guitar or floor toms.
I did all this during lockdown when I had plenty of free time and nothing much else to do cost me a small fortune and yes it was fun but also infuriating. Great for movie effects but for audio/music? naaa The plan was record a concert (visual and audio in multi channel I also have a big mixer with a audio interface built in back to my surface pro) and then master/mixdown the video in Atmos, in the end I asked myself, WHY !!!!! UA-cam only supports 5.1 as do most streaming services and in low quality so really you have to ask yourself who and how will anyone appreciate all the hard work and investment?
the label guys I talk to are pinning a lot on the car industry. Immersive audio is apparently the next big focus for car manufacturers. It's already in a few higher priced motors and the idea is that it's gonna be more widespread in coming years.
Immersive setups go in cars, they'll need immersive mixes, and the car industry won't invest in something that it can't playback. Supply and demand, thus why many industry guys are investing in setups now.
Atmos is a risky investment, no doubt about it but when you see guys at the top of the game investing in immersive setups, then theres a reason..
People are thinking home setups when there is already binaural headphones (which sounds fake as shit to me but the tech is advancing all the time).
Atmos for music is a waiting game. The industry is waiting on the technology so they remain at the front of the queue
@@PaulThird Mixing with immersive sound in mind, brings with it a whole bunch of new challenges to the sound engineer. Unlike stereo where the sound is generated in front of the listener now its 360', effects are true effects reverb/delay is your key to success and has to be understood and mastered. Can you mix in immersive sound for every lister in mind? Environments are all different sound treatment room shapes and sizes, whilst you might mix in the perfect room most listeners environment will probably be far from perfect. Should a studio album have you in the middle whilst a live album should correctly and accurately replicate the actual venues acoustics? With movies mixed in immersive sound you have a world around based on where the camera is so thats easy to replicate but for music specifically a studio album? Pink Floyd tried this with their quad version of Dark side of the Moon which when mixed in 5.1 sounds awesome but it was written and produced with immersive sound in mind, thats not true of 99.999% of albums. I have bought the rest of their remixed albums in 5.1 and there poor disappointing rubbish but they were never written and produced with immersive sound in mind.
Over the past couple of days I went back and revisited immersive sound mixing. I took the Oasis multi tracks and sat down and thought, what should I do to mix these in immersive sound? First I imported the drums into Superior Drummer so I have all those lovely room mics and the drum kit is broken up into individual channels/stems but what do I do with the rest? DO I want to be sat in the middle of the drums like I was playing them with the rest of the band around me? or do I want to try and mix it like a live album in a venue not a studio? Or do I want to stand in front like a conductor or at the back like a spectator? or in the middle like the sound engineer at a gig? IN fact NONE of them are right since with immersive sound you would change the whole song and how its recorded and mixed. Panning from left to right now transforms into front to back even front bottom to rear top left to right etc. Is it really worth the effort and could it actually completely ruin a song? Sorry still think its a gimmick and none starter
I'm not arguing about the creative side. I agree that there isn't a set standard for mixing atmos however I would argue that if artists start producing songs with atmos in mind then it'll obviously make more sense. However the issue is then insuring that the stereo fold down still makes sense. It's kind of mixing back words where just now it's about taking the stereo mix and simply making it bigger. Maintaining the artistic decisions and just making certain decisions that can further emphasise the stereo mix and still translate.
For example when scheps was talking about it and showcasing his mixes at NAMM he was showing how the front 3 speakers is where most of the mix lives. Fx at the rear speakers which is simply further emphasising the depth created in stereo. Any obvious panning decisions in stereo can be further emphasised with automation or adding stuff to the side speakers.
From what I've heard from people mixing atmos it's not about creating something different, it's merely expanding the stereo mix to an immersive setting where the immersive mix is almost dictated a lot by the stereo.
Theres a lot of creative issues but when done right it makes a lot of sense as both immersive and stereo coincide BUT my thing about atmos is purely business. I think atmos will be a thing purely because of business not because of the art. That's my point
@@PaulThird The reason I considered immersive sound was taking a live gig and then making a UA-cam video of the gig which now supports 5.1. SO I planned on taking a direct multitrack recording (meaning all the stems going into the desk not just a stereo mix) from the venue mixing desk into my own gear either via a audio interface or direct USB into my surface pro. I even bought a X32 Compact and SD8/16 digiboxes linked to a surface pro and a ton of mics as well as the Motu M4 and M-Audio Fast Track Ultra I already owned with the view I had to capture the audience and use when there was no specific venue sound system (rare nowadays) and it wont have mics positioned to capture the audience.
Anyway my point was to take a live recording and the create a usable marketable recording and with Video there is an argument to be made about exploiting the benefits of immersive sound for streaming platforms like UA-cam. Going forward I believe many artists are going to go their own way and not use record labels. They will have a manager who works with gig promoters and the studio work will be done privately either at home or in small studios. There is even an argument to be made about recording rehearsal sessions in fact like Jimmy Hendrix did, record EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE.
When it comes to EDM and Rave type genre most of these artists create their music in a DAW anyway and so their need for a studio is limited since they probably already have the gear at home and maybe only involve a sound engineer for final cut and mixdown. If these artists move into immersive sound it will take off it not it wont since this is todays music kids listen to (Im now 58). I wont make a comment on what I think of the music cos I rarely listen to it, only when forced and no option
sorry just talking off the top of my head and what comes into my old brain. I invested about £9k in gear for the project and in the end NEVER used it once. That said much of it was worth a lot more than what I paid so should I sell it all I will be in pocket not out of pocket since it was bought beginning of COVID when no one wanted it and the studio it came from was closing down, most of it was BRAND NEW at the time many mics still in their boxes unopened SM57/SM58 (including A/beta versions) think I got 10 of them in total. The studio had just invested 15K on a upgrade and I bought it all for just over half. It also included a load of QSC/Crown amps and a ton of speaker cabs with a large variety of separate celestion speaker drivers many unopened unused. I sold one of the decks (a digico thingie) and almost made my money back on that alone !! Thats not including all the damn guitars and keyboards I treated myself to during lockdown, erm yeah I went a little mad. Then I upgraded my main computer to one of those Asus Creators mobos, that wasnt cheap either !!
The iLoud MTM's do make back some money with the cost and less effort mounting them... also with acoustics because they are easier to tame... but I also find I have to enjoy the sound on my speakers so my thoughts of a cheap Atmos setup is constantly going around and around, this helps narrow things down a little bit for me... currently looking at the kali's, but the IN models and the very cheap looking a the Tannoy golds because I like the way these sound and Atmos mixing is more about where to place something than how you cut and shape things together and might not need such critical listening
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Yesss been looking forward to this series! I’m looking to get an Adam Audio set up with their A series. Please can you cover the audio interface side of things, would love to see realistically what options there are.. Thanks Paul!
Audio interfaces will be covered but not until next month sometime
dolby atmos means that you,ll have to do 2 mixes otherwise dolby atmos collapse wont work well in stereo due to not having to the same spacing as you have to in a steroe mix
Well yeah that's how it works right now. You do the stereo mix as you normally would, print stems, do the immersive mix in atmos.
I have a pair of little Genelec 8010 that I use for mobile work. They cost like 260 quid and could be a cool Atmos start. Maybe I should get another 9 of them and check it out ;-)
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I think Atmos is a cool idea, I haven't heard it, but it seems great for different applications. I remember listening to Dark Side Of The Moon in surround for the 1st time, which was novel and interesting, but not anything I couldn't live without. I think it would be great to go to a listening room and pay to hear an album in Atmos. That would be just like going to the cinema really, or even like the days of my youth, going to the record shop and asking them to play parts of a record before buying. There's the whole social angle of that. I can't imagine hating it. I don't know whether I'd shelve out the money for an Atmos room, and I'm not sure the average punter would either, but yeah, going to an Atmos Music "event" sounds great, I could tell my wife it's a date!
What I don't like is the rumour that some platforms such as Spotify or Apple will only distribute Atmos mixes and not stereo, I don't know if that's true or not, but it seems to be exclusive rather than inclusive, but that's a business practice rather than a complaint against Atmos itself. Then again, I don't like Spotify or Apple Music that much anyway and wouldn't bother my arse subscribing to it, because, just like the old record company's, they exploit the artists.
That's how I see it where I am. Create an experience around it so others can experience it.
On the apple and Spotify front, it looks like they are hoping that the atmos fold down to stereo will be good enough to get one file to work for both.
That's why atmos is mixed in stereo first and then stems exported and mixed in atmos.
That way you can still get a coherent stereo mix in the fold down because what you can stop clashing by placing things to different speakers in atmos, will clash in the stereo fold down, so you mix in stereo first, sort out your tonal stuff, create your stereo space.. Then expand that in atmos.
If mixers can get the stereo fold down to translate or sound better than the stereo then that one immersive file can provide atmos and stereo..best of both worlds.
So stereo mixing is still needed until there is a time that mixers can mix in atmos from the start and get good stereo translation or until everything is immersive but I doubt that would actually ever be a thing.
So as it stands now it's about stereo and immersive coinciding with each other in one format that works for both. That's how I kinda see atmos growing and becoming a thing but it will all depend on the immersive experience technology can provide to the consumer alongside the stereo fold down quality.
So if I was to go Atmos, I'd go with the IKM MTMs. Multiple reasons:
1. I know the MTMs and can work on them well
2. Setting up MTMs is a cakewalk - (rotable "wall-stands" by IKM FOR MTMs are available (~50 Bucks)
3. Would look less "invasive"
But yes, Kalis would've been my second choice for a budget atmos setup. Focals are great when you invest some money, I don't know how their budget products are. But I have the (discontinued) Focal Spirit One Professional headphones and that's as tight as it gets. The clarity and punch are hard to beat - I have headphones twice the price that are wider and maybe a tiny be more detailed (in perception, due to the wideness), but also muddier (Beyerdynamic). I'm not going atmos, but since I've already rambled about the whys under another video of yours, I'll spare you - this one time!
What sub would you get to pair with them? That'd be my concern. not having a sub that has the correct crossover to match the rest of the speakers
@@PaulThird TBH that's not something I had to think about yet. I'd probably start with a subless setup. I realize that longterm I'd need at least one sub, but I think the only way to do that right is to try out a couple of them. So I'd order different subs and try out different setups and compare - then take it from there. I understand that you need some temporary budget for this. But I also wouldn't be afraid to write to the people at IKM. I can tell they had atmos a bit in mind with the MTMs, so they probably have some experience in the matter!
honest video. Unlike some commentators, I saw it to the end, so I am not gonna whine about Atmos. In fact, nobody knows if this will be the new standard in 20 years (although we can make predictions). Since we don't really know, it's good to have options.
Another response to some commentators: if you are a musician and not a professional mixer, just stay with your 2 speakers. If you are a professional mixer, you have some tough choices to make.
But I do have a comment about labels: 95% of the music that comes out nowadays from labels is trash! Pure, unfettered trash. And you professional mixers will have to listen to this shit for the rest of your lives. Now, immersively in 7.4.1 speakers!
I really don't understand people who choose this profession...
I think a big issue is that all the focus is on atmos and not the fact that you are building a multi purpose immersive room. It's how you make the most of it.
At the end if it I'll have a cinema room / treated stereo mixing room / ADR tracking room / tv & film editing room/ atmos mixing room / immersive music listening room
If atmos mixing becomes a requirement for every artist on every platform in the future then I'll have a room and setup to offer that service but if it dies then my studio still offers other immersive based services
Atmos works great in movie theaters where you have a carefully crafted audio listening environment. For music, it's shite. I've not heard a single Atmos mix I thought was better than stereo when collapsed to 2-ch. stereo, which is what everyone has and uses. There's arguments that Atmos is still early in adoption, but I think that's a cop out when you have reference mixes and can easily compare the two. That said, I do encourage everyone to dive headlong into full Atmos setups, just because I look forward to getting a fantastic deal on liquidated Atmos studio monitors when everyone else finally comes to their senses and realizes Atmos is shite.
So you've heard atmos mixes in a proper atmos setup?
@@PaulThird Literally every time I go to the movies. Or did you mean strictly music listening? In the latter case, only in cars, because that's the only listening environment where it's convenient to do so, and even then, the listening conditions are thoroughly sub-optimal. For Atmos to succeed it has to show that it is superior to LCR mixing when collapsed down to 2-channel stereo, and it hasn't done that yet. Not even close actually. Where Atmos has an advantage, is quickly training mix engineers how to create room reverb reflections more correctly. So many producers have fuck-all clue about how to accurately re-create the room space they want using 2-channel, and end up with all these wishy washy sounding reverbs of different room spaces on every channel and bus send stomping all over each other and creating a huge mess in the mix, and then explain the mistakes away as "stylistic license" or some other such cop-out. Atmos allows you to hear reflections properly in a 3D space moreso than 2 or 2.1 channel mixing since you have opposing speakers for creating initial surface reflections. But once you have best practices learned using an Atmos setup, it's easy enough to then back-port those approaches to 2-channel again and we're back where we started.
Right.. so you've not heard a music atmos mix in an atmos room? So how can you say atmos sounds shite when you haven't been in the correct environment to listen to it?
I've been in proper setups and had the original stereo mix (not the fold down) played and then the atmos mix. When it's done right I much prefer the atmos.
Where you've got a valid point is the fold down issue in many cases but I've spoken to engineers working in atmos who admit it's hit and miss. Sometimes the stereo mix remains the preference, sometimes the fold down is preferred.
But the real issue that everyone is avoiding is that the end consumer doesn't give a shit if they are listening to a fold down bounce. The fold down bounces don't sound like absolute abominations. It's not like we are substituting it for badly compressed low quality mp3's.. And even still the consumer is mostly listening to sub par monitoring so it's irrelevant.
Speak to those in the car manufacturering industry. Loads will tell you that immersive will be the new thing fitted into modern cars. I've spoken to a few guys and they've told me they expect immersive audio to be in most new cars in 2-3 years.
However, speculation. Nothing concrete as of yet so nothing to pin your investment on.
Atmos is all business. You can see virtual reality being pushed, immersive audio in cars, apple pushing their Headphone sales.
Right now it's got fuck all to do with audio quality unfortunately. It's industry engineers preparing for a new format of audio that's being pushed as the technology advances. That's where all this future proof stuff is coming from.
Here's the thing, if the car industry takes it on and implements it globally then millions will be listening to immersive audio. Which means us engineers will have to provide immersive mixes. Doesn't matter if it doesn't really work, the industry will demand it and you either conform or get left behind.
The risk is the fold down becoming the new stereo. If that happens immersive mixing is unavoidable. We'll all have to provide it.
If the car manufacturers implement their version of immersive then you bet your bottom dollar this will be in tandem with the streaming platforms as what are we playing in our cars?.. Spotify, tidal, amazon bla bla the car industry won't shell out billions on immersive audio systems unless audio can be played back on it
Its all a game of chess and those in the industry are making their moves now.
Right now, atmos has fuck all to do with audio quality. There's not even "set standards" yet and engineers are still experimenting with what works best.
Atmos just now is a waiting game, and if the technology allows it, guaranteed it'll be the new selling point of tons of stuff. Apple aren't daft, they are moving early and everybody is watching them like hawks.
Quadriphonic, 5.1..the technology was never there to put in the hands of the common man. But you can see today it's getting there. It's where the tech is moving. Zuckerberg ploughing billions into meta.
We live in a world where technology rules the roost. Everything else that came before atmos was in a time where technology wasnt readily avaliable to the consumer. Think of this video.. 12 top quality speakers for £2700. Optimum grade hp amps for under £200, studio grade conversion for under a grand, smart UHD tv's for under £600
Open your eyes man.. Technology rules over artistry. Listen to the charts ffs. All sound the same and dictated by a social media platform.
Ryan Tedder said it himself. You don't get a hit right now unless you break Tik Tok. He even said the song matters fuck all now. It's all luck and marketing.
If the industry decide immersive audio is the future and the techs there to give consumers 25% of the overall affect.. Its getting pushed down our throats like everything else.
Its business, not art, but when it does become a thing and artists and producers start making music with it in mind there's no going back.
That's why I'm taking the risk now cause if it becomes a requirement in a year or 2 time.. Prices will sky rocket cause they can.
Nothings set in stone and all speculation but you just need half an eyeball in the industry to see the amount of guys investing in it
@@PaulThird The inconvenience is the point. What are you on about, I just told you I've heard Atmos mixes in a car (specifically the S-class) and everyone has heard them in movie theaters during credits roll, and I think it really offers no appreciable difference over a standard stereo mix tbh. I used to work for Google from '07 to '12. They came up with so many harebrained products which never caught on, it's laughable. I beta tested Google Glass, it was a miserable failure. I tested Google Plus, and every employee said it would fail, they released it anyway, and it did. Ask Meta how VR is going. And you can damn well bet even a well-resourced company like Apple is going to absolutely biff many releases. If you haven't been paying attention the way big tech works, they don't listen to their users, they piss away money on a million shite products, maybe 1-2 have sticking power, and then in 4-5 years their CEO takes a massive severance package to pass the torch to the next clown who will fuck things up similarly. Let's not pretend that just because "big tech" is involved that this is somehow a sacrosanct product we should all just accept. The market will decide, and my prediction is due to the inconvenience of listening environments required, much like every other immersive audio spec that's been tried, people will hand all those involved w/ Atmos for music a path to the door. Time will tell.
Hey Paul, As someone who watches a fair few of your video's, I'm going to suggest that I am probably the "everyman". I am interested in what you have to say but I am not an expert mixer, nor am I having bottomless pockets.
I think what I am trying to say is, a Dolby Atmos set up is not what an audience who are still learning how to EQ, Compress, use effects effectively and understand how to mix in stereo are really in need of knowing.I understand that you are keeping up with the current trend but all the gear, with no idea is not the way forward.
Would it not be better to at least suggest that Dolby Atmos is not something to even attempt unless one has a solid grounding in already creating great stereo mixes.
The reason I say this is because I can see many people rushing out and spending a lot of money before they are able to reap the rewards of mixing in this new format.
Nah I'd disagree cause dolby atmos is easier to mix to a certain extent. Remember where we are right now, in many cases the atmos mixer gets the stereo mix done by somebody else. Your job is basically just panning and levels if you look at it in its simplest form.
The stereo mixer has already done the hard work in regards to balance and dynamics. You take the stems and place them in an immersive setup. It's your job to ensure that it makes sense in immersive and that the stereo fold down isn't completely losing the original stereo mix.
Its a different mindset to stereo mixing. It's more panning and placement than anything else.
For me anyway, we should always be learning. That's how we grow as engineers. You'd probably learn a lot by doing atmos as you are receiving mixed stems. You are learning what elements sound like, how they piece together, tonal balances, dynamics, fx etc
That's how jaycen joshua learned, by listening to Dave Pensado. He knew what 'pro' sounded like before he'd even got the chance to do a label mix.
You have to seperate atmos like you would mastering. It's a different process. Not discussing about how to mix in atmos is like telling people not to learn about mastering when mixing. You need to understand industry expectations and how the end result is achieved.
Knowledge is key to growth. Without knowledge you are simply bashing around in the dark in the hope you will bump into enough stuff to build a picture of how the room looks.
Just because you may not be at a skill level to achieve professional results doesn't mean you shouldnt gain knowledge on how to achieve professional results.. Experience and knowledge go hand in hand and you really can't achieve success without having both.
There are many things I don't want you to speak about, Dolby Atmos isn't one of them. I won't be doing Atmos, but I love seeing new innovations. My hobby studio is about fun and there are so many better ways to spend money for personal fun when making music.
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Remember to check out my autism channel if you want to learn more about my life 🤓🤓
Well, there's one person who doesn't mind you talking about Atmos, hahah.
You are in a small club 🤣
@@PaulThird you notice the desperation of small clubs when the non positive comments magically disappear 🤣
I'd like to see an ultra, ultra budget system, only to be used for panning. That includes a legitimately terrible multitrack DAC out.... Then you'd do all of your critical listening and tweaking on headphones. For those who just want to qualify for Apple playlists. F*** Apple.... Atmos doesn't even translate well into binaural audio... It's unfocused, phasey, syrupy and over process sounding with too many strange ambience resonances. i don't think it's really something most people are going to want to listen to. It's fatiguing..... After filling around with it briefly and trying to adjust..... The music feels so much more high-fi when you turn that s*** off! The only way it might start to sound more convincing with earbuds is if they add head tracking.
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Don´t waste your money and time on an industry constructed demand. I believe you will regret this in the future. Your audience isn´t really interested in this topic as well I would guess. I like you, it´s not a front - just a thought.
Tbh i don't really give a shit if my audience is interested in it or not. I'm done making content to appease others. Too many caped crusaders out there now telling the people what they want to hear to get more subs and likes. Fighting battles they have no proper knowledge about. It's completely spineless and only perpetuating the idea that you follow the agreed norm of society in order to gain popularity
I believe I can make quite a bit of passive income from having an immersive setup. Village cinema room, ADR, tv & film, immersive band nights, artist release nights, production, checking binaural atmos mixes, not just mixing music in atmos. Normally my investments are right for my situation and I don't really see this being an exception as I'll make the most of every angle an immersive setup can bring to my situation. I put a lot of thought into this
As soon as it pays itself off there will be no future regret for me
@@PaulThird ok, that´s a different angle on your take on it. Hopefully it works for you! Also it is totally ok to don´t give a shit about your audience but imo it would be sad to loose your interesting, funny and truthful content. Your growth and recognition from people like Warren Huart came from your mindset and your content. But maybe it´s time to go another road for you. It´s not worth it if you´re finally bored with the content you did the last years. Wish you all the best.
This is my truthful content. Making up shit that appeases my audience isnt. As you can see, I'm just a bit pissed off at the state of youtube right now.
Its either guys shilling hard or caped audio crusaders pretending they are in it to protect the wants of the audio youtube community, when really they are working just as hard to make money as others. Either are not real content in my eyes. It's just a paid opinion or an opinion crafted by the mass agreed opinion of the day to get more subs and views to make more ad revenue and get more free shit. It's not content coming from the gut and it's not honest either. It feels like hardly anybody is being honest with their channel any more
I just rather people made content that they are genuinely interested in, not cause the algorithm tells them thats what their audience wants. I'm genuinely interested in atmos and everything that goes into it, and it's where my head is at right now. That's always been the key success of my channel. me documenting the learnings around whatever rabbit hole im down.
I get it that most of my audience don't care but the tin foil hat stuff and misinformation surrounding atmos is really grating me as its all speculation and comes from a place of zero fact or experience. It just doesn't help our community, it turns it more into gearslutz which is what I really don't want youtube to become.
If atmos doesn't work for me after 6 months to a year then I'll tell you all but it'll come from a place of actual experience that has proper context around it. I don't think we should ever lose the context on this platform. You lose the context it turns into gearslutz and failed "experienced" engineers talking shit online to those starting out in the hope they can feel better about their own failures and regain some pride and boost their ego. . That's what I'm seeing more on this platform. Talk is cheap, so ensure you back your shit up
@@PaulThird honesty's the best source for income. 🙌
Damn,, way less than what the other youtubers are sayin 👀👀👀
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You may assume theres not any wife which will allow their hubby to install a proper dolby atmos speaker setup in HER living room. So how does a dolby atmos fuelled car sound?
Atmos fuelled? 😂
@@PaulThird with a dolby atmos installation
Doesn't really work unless you are in the sweet spot ie the driver
@@PaulThird do you mean I have to install it (atmos) in the McLaren F1 middle seater?
Atmos is a fad