The Birth of the Super Star Destroyer - The Secret Truth
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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The Super Star Destroyer, the Empire's greatest and most powerful Naval Vessel, had more than one secret which hid the truth of the Super Star Destroyer program. We'll discuss that and more on today's video!
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@@davidblalock9945 i think they would be a lot more helpful if there enieme was more powerful and had bigger ships but the rebel alliance is a small not very strong group with not that many large ships
I think SSDs could better serve as massive mobile bases for the less compliant sectors of space, like how the Supremacy in Canon is supposed to act as.
@@VengeanceN7 thats a good idea
@@VengeanceN7 but in large space battles SSDs are pretty good
I'm actually subscribed to Corey's Datapad and I like his stuff (he's a more down-to-earth, by-the-numbers version of your videos) but 45 mins is just waaay too long for a breakdown.
A three-part series with each video being 15 minutes? At least worth checking out the first video.
45 minute total breakdown? Sorry, but I'm just not willing to commit that much time at one go.
It’s hard to argue that the SSDs compromised the overall fleet strategically due to excessive concentration of resources when the Empire was still able to build two Death Stars alongside them. Clearly if you eliminated the Death Star projects and reallocated just those resources to the support/escort fleet, the Empire could have had its cake and eaten it too
@Lokabrenna 1 Death Star, capable of securing 1 system, versus 100 SSDs capable of securing 100 systems simultaneously. "Well you can't blow up a planet with an SSD" the Tarkin Doctrine enthusiasts say, "but you can Base Delta Zero the planet and ensure nothing will live on it again for the next century" everyone with a working brain states.
A real-world parallel can be seen in WW2 big weapons like the railway cannons (Not just made by Germany, but also France, The Soviet Union, The US, UK, Japan, and Italy), super-heavy tanks that never really worked, and Germany's never-completed V3 weapon.
Some were so crew intensive that they were a massive drain on manpower, as well as being far more expensive on a 'money per target destroyed' than more reasonably sized weapon systems.
That is how I see super star destroyers. A big pile of money crewed by way too many people, concentrating power in too slow and big a target.
In Legends, I think the Death Stars were also meant to be used against the Yuuzhang Vong
@@MonkeyJedi99 I get what you’re saying here, but in-universe the SSDs actually were terrifyingly effective tools of war when they were actually used correctly. Granted that is likely only possible because it’s a fictional galaxy based upon fictional rules, but they don’t quite rise to the level they don’t work
@Lokabrenna that applies offensively as well. But the peer point is absolutely correct. The Empire could clearly handle the resource concentration (if you get rid of the Death Stars), and there’s clearly a role for them. But in the absence of peers the need is purely hypothetical
I would've built only five, maybe six, SSDs. The rest of the money and resources could then go towards research/construction of other ships to support them. Maybe even an Imperial Mark 3 SD. Definitely the TIE Defender.
Agreed. Having a few SSDs spread across the galaxy to discourage groups from thinking they could take and hold pockets of space makes a certain sense. 40-60 is a massive waste of resources.
I was just about to say, they could've mass produced TIE Defenders and cut their SSD numbers to about a quarter or a third of what they had. And with the freed up resources they could've built fleets of TIE defenders and new SDs. The new SDs could've had better hangar bays and launching platforms, similar to the Venator-class's hangars, but still retain the qualities of the new SDs. Just let Thrawn be in charge of revamping the Imperial Navy and R&D, that should just about do it 😂
@@kimjongun5691 TIE Defenders, TIE Avengers, Missile Boats, and Assault Gunboats in mass-produced numbers alongside the Imperial-IIs, Victorys, and Interdictors would have been far more cost-effective and efficient for controlling a galaxy. But the Empire had that "bigger is better" mentality and sacrificed efficiency for terror.
Honestly, I'd make up to 12 Executor-class SSDs specifically for Fleet Admirals or a Grand Admiral in command around specific fleets, but I'd make more Bellators and smaller Star Dreadnaughts as command ships for smaller fleets while invest on improving Imperial-class SDs and increase use of multipurpose cruisers (Vindicator-class). I'd steadily replace all older TIEs with newer TIE interceptors with shields, produce more TIE Defenders, mass produce shielded TIE bombers, and improved Howlrunners.
@@appo9357 I wouldn't go that far, I would genuinely say 3 MAYBE, and that is a big maybe, 4, each one having a quick response force built around it.
If given more control over Imperial doctrine, I would cut the number of Star Destroyers down from about 2500 to 1500. Instead basing local defense forces around a squadron of Arcitan light cruisers, a few Van Tong carriers (or Quasar light carriers) some Tartans or lancers for anti fighter screening. The ISDs would be placed into squadron commands of about 5, with some Victory I Star Destroyers (keep the Concussion missile launchers, but upgrade then engines to keep up with ISDs) and make Quick response forces consisting of 1 ISD, 2 Victories, maybe an interdictor if available, and anti fighter corvettes of the commander's choosing. 1 ISD is more than enough to subjugate an entire planet, and ISD and a pair of Victorys could take on just about any capital ship the rebels could throw at them until the late GCW era, and the Anti fighter corvettes, especially the Lancers, could screen the task force until the ISD and VSDs could launch fighters.
To be honest, I prefer SSDs above superweapons. They're excellent command ships and weapons of war the rebellion could never hope to outmatch in a straightforward battle. As weapons of terror, the SSDs crushed all competition and could end battles without firing a single shot. My guess is the Imperial brass hated SSDs even more because resources were being funneled into the construction of the Death Star, which was a project that very few imperials thought was a sound idea. SSDs were nails in the coffin of the Empire's finances in the eyes of Imperial command. If the Death Stars were never built, SSDs could have been the perfect representation of the Empire's might.
I'd prefer something in between. I'm a big fan of Sovereign SSD: it had a superlaser, capable of penetrating any shield and destroying any warship, gravity well projectors, good turbolaser complement and ewerithing one need to dominate the space battle. Yes it was weaker than its older sister Eclipse, but the latter is just an ower kill and waste of resources.
@@solarissv777 : Honestly, I'd still take an Executor.
Superlasers may be impressive and all, but if all else fails you should be able to strip almost all of the other systems off an ISD, make the ship larger to fit a second reactor bulb, and use that as a dedicated superlaser platform that you never detach from your main fleets.
The _Executor,_ on the other hand, is a ship that I'm pretty sure can fit an entire ISD in it's big docking bay, thereby making the Executor a viable drydock/wetdock facility for the largest of your primary warships. You wouldn't build many of them, but but those Executors you built would be invaluable strategic assets.
@@absalomdraconis but why do you need your dry/wet dock to be a heavily armed battleship? A purpose build dry dock would most likely be cheaper then a single ISD (no need for such energy output, guns, heavy shields e.t.c ). What you need the SSD's for is to be unstoppable fleet killers.
Guys, you can build fleets of both. The Sovereigns take on planets and the largest capital ships while the Executors or another SSD provide docks, fighter support and general firepower against lighter ships. Issue solved lol
Fun fact: for every dreadnought built in the Imperial German Navy under the Tirpitz Plan, 33 U-boats could have been built with the amount of steel used. Sometimes naval construction is driven purely by ego, careerism, and unsound doctrine.
to be fair the Kriegsmarine never ever had naval supremacy and it was way more comparable to rebel doctrine with the U-Boats as soon as they tried to go convential to Challenge british naval supremacy they got punished severly ,that is also why Operation sea lion was a wet dream and they pokered on the brits giving up because the royal navy would have massacred any naval invasion
Fun fact: the dreadnoughts were meant as a deterence against a war with the UK. Thats why it is called the risk fleet strategy. Its quite an irony that neither Tirpitz nor Wihelm II. seemed to realize that the fleet building would antagonize the UK at least if you reach a certain level. And then their are nations like russia and france and their navys had to ne kept in check too so if Tirpitz and Wilhelm only had said no worries our fleet osnt directed agaisnt the british bit against france and russia it may have never fought the Royal Navy.
@@nichtvorhanden5928 Err... the British didn't care what the Germans claimed their navy was for. They cared what the German navy could do. As an ocean-going navy the German fleet was a threat to the British because the only way to get from Germany to the open ocean was through waters the Royal Navy considered (perhaps unjustly) as 'theirs.' The High Seas Fleet certainly wasn't built to fight in the Baltic; even setting aside the name, there wasn't anybody who had a Baltic fleet, albeit there were a couple Baltic squadrons.
@@boobah5643 Did you even read my full comment? Because at least for me the first sentence clearly says that the German Fleet was directed at the UK, and if memory serves one of the past 1900 German Navy laws even stated that officially. Hoewer the original plan by Tirpitz was to build a navy that has a strength of 2/3 of the british navy in dreadnoughts (or before pre dreadnoughts) and than if Britain woul attack Germany according to Tirpitz theory there would be other navies that would be a danger to the UK after it fought the German Navy. That would deter the british from going to war with Germany. What neither Tirpitz nor Wilhelm II. realized was that the UK could simply improve their realations and later over the German Invasion of Belgium ally with France and Russia i.e. the powers that would in Tirpitz theory have the navies to threaten the Royal Navy after it won a costly victory against the German Navy never came into their minds.
If hoewer Wilhelm II. and Tirpitz had said ok we build a Navy with the primary task to fight the French navy on the oceans and can make the baltic a torpedo infested hell hole for the russian baltic fleet which would require far less pre dreadnoughts and later dreadnoughts and more cruisers/ later battlecruisers and many many torpedoboats and submarines when they become available than the british would have had far less to worry about the German Navy because it doesnt build as fast and maybe not as many dreadnoughts as it did historicly. How France and Russia react to Germany not building a Navy as big as it did historicly is a different thing.
Since any German Navy until 1945 will have France one the list of enemies you will need a ocean going navy and at least at the start of the German Navy buildup the British recognized that Germany was building a Fleet but didnt worry to much about it. The real scare about the german Navy came only between 1905 and 1908 when the british due to german building tempo definetly realized that the German Navy was directed at them and not against France or Russia.
High Seas or Hochsee in german only is term for every ship that isnt a pure costal vessel so a vessel that only crosses the baltic from Rostock to Helsinki is technicly a high seas vessel.
Another point of view:
With the same amount of steel, instead of an Iowa class BB, was possible to built 22 or so Fletcher class destroyer. But... One Iowa class needed cca. 2700 crewmen. 22 Fletcher needed more than 7000. Also, Iowa class BBs costs 100-120 million USD, why a Fletcher around 6-8 million. (Depending on version, radar and weapon set, etc...) So, more than 150 million USD.
If the ships are much smaller in displacement, the "hunger for crew" are even bigger: for example, Iowa class vs SC-497 class. One BB vs. 580 subchaser, 2700 vs 16240 crew.
The SSDs were not practical ships I'd argue, they're very big, but they're also fairly unwieldly, and ships can generally run away from them, which is a chore vs an ISD, so why bother building bigger, slower ISDs that are just asking for an accident or disastrous infiltration?
Thrawn was very correct about SSD’s and huge battlestations like the Death Star: they are far too costly in every metric and can be easily subverted by smaller craft. Resources would have been better put to use by building more smaller craft like the Arquitens class in vast numbers, which were more than enough to deal with the vast majority of the Rebel Alliance.
Increased power generation capability allowing larger weapons? Possibly better for bombarding planet surfaces or destroying large capital ships.
@@billbraske2894 Part of this analysis and debate depends on shield and weapon strength. I have seen some past analysis that suggests Star Wars ship battles as presented in the movies is generally reminiscent of early WWII battles with massive battle ships being the main force projector with support from fighter craft. The Legends material would focus on the role of starfighters (because they make a better Hero unit than a massive battleship) and outline situations where fighters could take on heavier vessels.
The X-Wing novels outlined that without a weakness like an exhaust port, it took somewhere around 24 proton torpedoes to bring down the shields of a star destroyer and do some damage. And over 100 to do the same to a Super Star Destroyer that was similar to the Executor. Which is supposed to be difficult while surviving against the protective fighter support and anti-starfighter weapons.
I’d assume that they’d provide the role of a Forward Operating Base & logistics/command center for far-off fronts away from industrial worlds. The storage & refueling & power generation capabilities would likely be invaluable compared to the smaller Arquitens.
SSDs have their uses especially in convential warfare as siege Equipment or smashing through tough defense fleet ,just like mostly everything else it doesnt look that well because the rebel alliance fought every different war with a whole different focus that was hit and run attacks also the rebels rarely engaged anything that they didnt have a massive advantage and the rebels were dictating the pace of Engagement
If we would speak from the bellator class, then I would say that there should be build at least one for every big fleet of the empire. Bellators are pretty fast for their size, good shielded and enough armed for every enemy in the galaxy (except the deathstar)
*And lerger SSDs
I know there is the idea that the empire was preparing for intergalactic invaders, but honestly I hate how that seems to try and 'justify' the evil actions of the empire in hindsight.
Other then the various minor powers in the galaxy that may have required a more robust imperial military to keep in check I don't see there being much of a reason to build SSD's as there was basically no peer to the imperial military. Even their normal star destroyers found few if any equals in a broadside.
Real life had a ridiculous ship arms race because there were comparable opponents. In Star Wars it's not like the Mon Cals were an independent and rising threat.
Frankly I feel like there is room for the exploration of regional threats to the empire on it's borders that might require the use of large fleets and SSD's, but nothing so major as to constitute a proper declaration of war. There are a few in the lore, but could be more.
@Random Guy Yeah I feel like there is fertile ground for a lot of empire vs alien empires from beyond the rim kind of stories. What with the growing rebellion from within the ability for the empire to wage an external war could be very interesting.
@@igncom1 it would make the rebellions success FAR more believable too of the empire was distracted
What’s wrong with a bit of moral ambiguity?
Honestly, I think the Executor (because of that huge docking bay) should be seen as a combination of battleship and _drydock._ I'm pretty sure that an entire ISD could fit in there, which would be highly useful for e.g. an expansionist government that's somewhat concerned about credible attacks on regional support bases, and highly interested in expanding into unknown or hostile areas.
If you assume that at least Executors were _fleet support vehicles,_ then they make much more sense.
I'm not sure if you have ever covered this topic, but Eck would you do a deep dive into Coruscant?
Specifically, how did it grow and expand from a normal world into a technological marvel and political center of the Republic.
Not sure how 'normal' it ever was; I could have sworn it's been called humanity's home world in a couple of places. Mind, that was millennia before the Republic was founded.
Beyond that, it's that Coruscant is basically sitting in the middle of the hyper lane network; even a lot of stuff that's not going to Coruscant goes to Coruscant, and that's wealth. It's basically halfway to anywhere in the galaxy.
@@boobah5643 : If you're going by KotOR then it's one of humanity's homeworlds rather than _the_ homeworld, but yeah.
Early gang let’s go
I think its hilarious that Palpatine had both the Death Star project and the Super Star Destroyer projects being built at the same time, from around the same starting point, and the Death Star still managed to be done BEFORE the Executor. You'd think a ship that makes up less than .01% of the mass of the Death Star might have been faster to build, even if 90% of resources were going to the Not-A-Moon.
The Separatists had already done a lot of the footwork required on the first Death Star. The Executor was pretty much designed from the ground up.
@@craigunderhill3415 the separatists had the blueprints. They'd done the basic design but the actual construction was done on the former-Republic-now-Empire side. That's why at the end of Revenge of the Sith it had them overseeing the base construction.
The only thing the Separatists had had was the DESIGNS for a super weapon. They needed the help of their 'secret partner' to start building it. The Genosians never knew they handed it to their enemy when they gave the designs over. The irony...
The problem with SSDs is that they actually weren't 'an entire fleet lumped together' but merely oversized battleships.
If they really wanted to make them effective then an obvious modification would be to remove the superfluous guns and replace them with shipyard and resource facilities.
This would turn the SSD into a flagship that could sustain multiple fleets in the outer rim away from logistics lines which had proved to be vulnerable to rebel starfighters.
Think the motherships from Homeworld.
The Executor's big docking bay is so large that it probably _is_ some sort of shipyard, though not necessarily a production facility.
The Supremacy SSD actually was this. It was even supposed to be able to construct star destroyers, given materials.
Of course, it was flown like a battleship and died like one.
I had that idea for my Empire of the Hand fanfic! A new class of SSD, the Renaissance, can actually house up to 5 ISDs on its hull in triangular depressions, with docking bays on the SSD meeting up with the ventral docking bays on Imperial Star Destroyers. It's Thrawn's personal SSD, so of course it would a more intelligently-designed command and fleet support ship.
I remember a old theory - Palpatine built the Death Star less to keep Systems in line - but more to keep his _Navy_ in line. Death Star 1 had defenses against a large scale fleet attack, not so much against fighters.
The SSD could fulfil a similar role at many more places. If he gives them to the most loyal, highest ranking officers, all below them would fall in line. Dissent would feel impossible even to commanders of the mighty ISD.
Indeed. A thing that makes a lot of sense if you think about how dangerous rogue admirals in charge of something like a super star destroyer or a fleet of star destroyers. If we go by the tie fighter game, what really screwed the imperial navies ability to coordinate a solid attack on the rebel forces was the actions of the rogue admiral Zarin which greatly decreased the reserves of tie defenders, tangled up the imperial best naval minds for a while, and likely drew skilled individuals away from dealing with the core rebel alliance fleet which likely contributed to the rebels getting into a solid enough position that Palpatine needed to employ a partially complete death star 2 as bait for the trap to annihilate the core rebel fleet.
A suggestion: You could make a video that tells more about Warlord Zsinj and his exploits, or maybe talk about the Iron Fist. Zsinj is a character with an exciting story. The Hunt for Zsinj became the New Republic's First Proper campaign against a foreign government since they finally got Coruscant, establishing the government's legitimacy. Zsinj did hit-and-run assaults on the New Republic back in his day, going from planet to planet, raiding and jumping into hyperspace away, just as Courtship of Princess Leia describes. Iron Fist was instrumental in the Warlord's plans to steal another Super Star Destroyer, being a base for his projects and experiments. The Battle of Selaggis involves some exciting tactics.
Zsinj > Thrawn
@@spiffygonzales5899 with equal resources? Zsinj is so dead not even rey can revive him. with Zsinj having a lot more things at his disposal? thrawn still wipes the floor with him.
If the only the empire had listened to thrawn more regarding the wastefulness of dreadnoughts. At the end of the day individual ISDs were already packing more than enough firepower to deal with any combatant the rebellion could field and SSDs we're little more than vanity projects for high ranking imperials and just building a small fleet of smaller ships no larger than ISDs in their place for the same amount of credits that can be in more places at once instead of packing all those resources into a single asset would have done the empire lot of favors. I suppose you can also blame Kuat as they in turn where aggressively lobbying the empire to order progressively bigger and bigger ships from them mostly to flex at rival shipyards.
I would argue that one thing could have made these ships a lot more effective: Give them Interdictor projectors (I think the Assertor Class had some if I remember correctly). With the sheer size and durrability of an SSD, protecting the gravity well generators should not be a big problem unless the enemy is of large numbers or has plot armor. The enemy cannot flee effectively into hyperspace, and will have to face the brunt of both launched fighters, and the heavy bombardment of the turbolasers.
they should have also had death star lasers instead of building the DS2. According to Force Unleashed, the DS1 used 64 kyber-powered beams that converged into the total death star beam. Take one of those 64 and put it along the spine of the SSD. Now you have a dozen or more superweapons that are just as dangerous as a full death star.
I'm playing through Dawn of Defiance right now, we haven't officially found out what Project Sarlacc is, but I did predict Super Star Destroyers a few sessions ago (right before we made it to Coruscant) so I'm glad I was right
The Tarkin doctrine contributed to the fall of the empire
How ?
@@arishemghoul9571 cuz it's less about funtion and more about show off
@@arishemghoul9571 fear and power creates unrest which leads to rebellion to overthrow an oppressive regime take the Star Wars movies for example. I’m surprised you didn’t get the same conclusion after watching any Star Wars film
It was ultimately Palpatines conception of the empire. When he moved from being a republican emperor/imperial chancelor to a Darth Lord of the Sith he forsoke the institutions of power which upheld his empire.
@@Idkidkidk716 iam kinda new to star wars but sometimes fear and power lead to submissive and obedient which i thought was the reason the empire was able to controll alot worlds
The SSD's are undeniably cool. I mean just from a fanboy perspective having the biggest and baddest ships in the galaxy is more than enough to compensate lol. But strategically, it's a nightmare. We can scarcely conceive of just how rescource intensive these ships really were. And then there's the problem of implementation, by which I mean that 1 ship can only be in one place, no matter how good the hyperdrive. I've always believed the Tarkin Doctrine to be a load of bollocks. If you had a much larger navy- more responsive more flexible navy- it may actually be MORE effective at instilling fear than a single giant ship. I personally wouldn't want to have to fight either, but one target is (arguably) better than hundreds.
The docking bay on the Executor class is so large that I think it may double as a mobile fleet base. The others? Yeah, just shove them all into some "Heavy Reaction Fleet" units or something and forget them until you want to blend a planet or something...
My issue with a lot of these larger weapons in Star Wars is that power does not scale well with size and budget-SSDs (other than eclipse I guess) does not bring extra capabilities or large improvement to some capability that are substantial enough to justify their resource intensiveness. Hell, somehow the rebels, by “concentrating fire” on an SSD could take down one at Endor.
How about Onager sized turrets? By itself Onager SD is highly vulnerable and operates on the edge of its power capacity an is a chore to aim, but if you take only the main guns from it, put them into a rotating turret and power them from SSD's main reactor, everything becomes much more interesting. Add several gravity well projectors and you get a true fleet killer.
The Executor brings that huge docking bay, which I strongly suspect can hold an ISD.
I don't think the Rebels killed the SSD at Endor. Sidious being dropped down that shaft is probably what did it.
My opinion:
The Tarkin Doctrine was a mistake. Even our boy Thrawn was against it.
Too many big ships of the SSD variety is a resource drain too much even if you have the resources that is the Empire. One SSD per main oversector command fleet seems reasonable, but beyond that lays madness. That means one SSD for one Moff, no more. That means 20 SSD.
Thrawn wanted to have more adaptable fleets with fighters to outclass the rebel fighters. So more TIE Defenders, no ships bigger than a frigate, and so on.
A modern day case on Earth, for example, is the aircraft carrier. It's a big expensive ship designed to be a command nexus in a fleet with unique capabilities of its own. You really want cruisers, destroyers, and submarines in numbers. In a sense, think of space as a really big ocean. More small fries, fewer big boys.
Counterpoint: SSD's are really cool and impressive looking.
But yes, they make little sense.
you could say that trying to build and field the SSD's was a catch-22, or self fulfilling prophecy in failure. I mean that analogy of the snake eating it's own tail? So you supposedly have a need for this HUGE ship, "To hunt, and kill rebels and any other super powers in our galaxy." this also needs several ships to be an escort and chase down enemy ships and a supply chain so vast, convoluted and deep it would suck in fuel, food, personnel and other ships. So then you have all this waste of expenditure but now that you built 1you can barely afford it.
It's also this huge force multiplier is going to be needed everywhere at once, so it "Makes sense to build 2 or more", but then you need more resources to be mined and extracted and now your forced to conquer outer rim planets and mid rim systems to just to fuel construction and maintain it's movement Plus all the ship tenders needed to support it out in the vast black.
Because of this you have even More systems that need conquering or rebellions quelled because they exist as a drain on supplies and it just. keeps. going. Until the Empire implodes like that fat posh patron in "Monty Python's the Meaning of Life" movie.
To also support your US navy fleet power doctrine with deployed carrier groups ISD's are already their equivalent before even bringing in SSD's! Thrawn was right. How many other ships with much better force projection could they have made with all the materials, and credits spent on them? Death Star was the same way. IT can't be everywhere in an instant.
No.
You want carriers. Singular ships that by themselves rank highly in the list of worlds greatest military powers. Fleets without one are called targets.
@@ekscalybur
War experience shows that a singled out carrier is vulnerable.
Also, I never said carriers were a bad thing (Please read...) , just force multipliers you want to protect zealously. The more anti-air and anti-missile and ASW combatants, the better. The carriers are more expensive because of many reasons, too.
@@seancarroll9849 Carriers are not force multipliers. They ARE the force. Every boat assigned to a carrier fleet is there to augment its abilities or protect it.
Nations that don't have carriers do NOT have blue water navies. Also, dafuq does your first sentence even mean?
it is a good idea to have a shiptype that can outclass everything the enemy has, but it doesn't have to be THAT big.
just put a small super laser or another super weapon on already existing isd's and give them a new paintjob or something.
swtor has a nice mission were you get your own cool looking fleetkiller star destroyer
The Executor class, because of that docking bay, should probably be considered a mobile fleet base.
I believe that the SSDs could have been utilized practically in military strategy as was overwhelming demonstrated in both the Pre Shadow Hand and Shadow Hand campaigns along with the Orinda Campaign for the Empire and the uses at Phaeda, Anx Minor, Borleias and Mon Calamari for the New Republic.
SSDs could serve as extremely potent offensive fleets in and of themselves as well as unrivaled deterrents, carriers, fleet support and garrisons.
The problem lay with the egos and failings of those the vessels were often assigned to, who generally saw them more as symbols than military assets to be utilized.
I don't really like the ssd's other than the Bellator, i think the executor class wasn't really practical (like most of the ssd's) and the Bellator was a much better ship when it comes to ssd's and i think most commanders/warlords who used them didn't make it worth for the cost , i always much preferred a fleet made up of isd's vsd's and support ships with a focus of anti fighter and fight carrying capacity rather than the use of the super star destroyer in a fleet, Good video ecks :)
Wasn't the Bellator one of the gun-dominant designs? I prefer the Executor because that huge docking bay could fit some very large ships in it. It should properly be used as a fleet support ship.
I would say there should be as many as one for every major Imperial fleet. Like the Executor, the class made for excellent flagships, being able to not only be nearly invulnerable and immensely powerful, but have the ability to maintain its own fleet. As a mobile shipyard, I would imagine it was quite decent, and _significantly_ cheaper than a Death Star.
I personally would have a mindboggling amount of high-quality small ships; like the ones The Old Republic and CIS used at the start of The Clone Wars. Just add in a class 0.5 Hyper Drive, enough armaments to wipe out a whole planet, comfortable living quarters for crew and we got my navy/armada. I know what you all are thinking "That sounds a bit overkill and unrealistic Tommy Fox.", and you're kind of right (even I haven't thought it completely through yet), but I go for quality and quantity whenever I think about building an army in a game or so; quality so that it'll be extremely hard to take down and quantity so that if the enemy does figure out a reliably means of taking down my warriors and ships, swarm tactics and high level of strategy will hopefully pick up the slack.
You also want Executors though, because that big docking bay is large enough to be used as a shipyard. Don't treat it as a battleship unless the enemy explicitly seeks it out.
@@absalomdraconis Good thinking doc, want to join my crew? =)
I would have few SSD's, maybe 5. (1-2 larger SSD's, most likely the Executor class or vengeance, with 2-3 smaller SSD's such as the bellator class) I would have instead focused on having improving fleet design and doctrine, notably creating an ISD III that has point defense and laser cannons, while also creating a Venator II, with some light improvements to it's ship-to-ship combat and making use of clone wars era ground and naval vessels. (Eg. LAAT and Y-wings.) I would also put emphasis on using the Raider, Lancer, Nebulon B, (upgraded Imperial ver.) TIE Defender, Striker and Advanced to replace the other ISD II's in a fleet. (Most imperial fleets had three or more ISD II's for reference) Overall I would round off my reforms as focused on not the use of heavy battleships everywhere but as the punch of a fleet instead of its main component.
Eh, an ISD III would honestly be fine with an ISD II armament that swapped some turbolasers for extra point defense. The better ship is an anti-starfighter ship that can fit inside the ISD docking bay, so that several can be sent with an ISD, and the ISD can be used to repair them if they take enough damage.
I feel like SSDs have always been a bit unneeded. They're big, strong, and scary yes, but they cost a ton and can only be in one place at a time. I even feel like the ISD bloat was felt too. For one ISD you could get about 10 Strike Cruisers or Carracks. I have always been a smaller ship supporter since several smaller ships always seem to beat one very big ship. Invest in better defense platforms or space stations too.
I 100% agree that they are incredibly impractical for a large empire. But my god do SSD's look so fucking cool.
The empire should have only made 4 super star destroyers 40 is wasting resources and personale we could have made way more isds to wipe out the rebels.
Given the Executor class was referred to as a Star Dreadnought in episode 5 I've always been confused why the name "Super Star Destroyer" stuck given "Star Destroyer" just sounded like it was a Destroyer class of naval vessel but in space, like a Star Cruiser or Star Carrier.
Episode 5 of what?
If the Empire had the wherewithal to recognize the benefit of small ships policing the galaxy, they wouldn't have built the death star to begin with. It's a moot point.
Me when eckharts ladder uploads :
A surprise to be sure but a welcome one
A handful of SSD as mobile commands centers or operating bases for quickly responding to threats that need a warhammer to deal with wouldn't be a bad idea. If you take out the Death star which was the false crown of Palpatines empire then its no where near the resource drain people make it out to be.
City sized starships should be powerful enough to destroy planets without the Death Star
Had Thrawn led Empire military development they would have crushed the Rebellion.
If he lived that long. I wonder if hed have stepped on the wrong toes being thst close to the imperial mikitary industrial complex. Shuttle accidents happen all the time, after all.
I think Zahn did a great job explain8ng why Thrawn was where he was bedore the stsrt of his trioloy. The unown fringes of the empire was really the only place Trawn could shine.
My biggest issue with SSDs is that their weapons can't be brought to bear on the same target at the same time. In universe, the maximum effective range for most weapons is about a kilometer, which makes no sense on a ship 10 km long.
In a sense, it would be wonderful in the hands of a broadside commander, meaning that whoever is in command picks a target and makes a flank speed run at broadside range past a single target. The guns at the front target the target until it is out of range, then the next battery, then the next battery, etc etc etc along the length of the ship. The individual batteries and hull areas are only in the maelstrom for a minute, while the target is under continuous bombardment until the SSD moves past. Essentially a single ship Ackbar Slash.
The secret truth? These ships are too big. Too big to keep supplied, too big to staff, to maintain, even to coordinate basic combat, or even non-combat operations in any meaningful way. Too costly in every sense of the word. Sure the idea of them is kinda cool, but, no they make no sense. About as much sense as being able to be destroyed by a 3rd hand, paper-thin, single man star-fighter.
Something in these lines; "Sir, the rebel fleet is aproaching! They have 10 Mon Calamari Cruisers, 20 Nebulon B Frigates and 50 Y-Wings!!. Imp Moff; Ha! That is small change, no need for panic. Sir, they also have......one A Wing...Imp Moff; SOUND THE ALARM!!!!! ALL PERSONEL TO THE ESCAPE PODS!!!!"
Hey Eck you should do an in depth video on the Imperial Civil War, all the big players, major events and developments. Basically a timeline or explation of the whole event and the galaxy at that time. It sounds very interesting to me and hopefully others.
I would have put the money into fighter tech. Namely
Defenders as the main multi role/ bomber.
Hunters as a heavy fighter as they had s-foils, proton torpedos, ion cannons and hyperdrives.
Interceptors as the main tie unit.
Then the rest would go into ISD production/ research. ISD 3, Crimson VSDs, and Lancer corvette production.
I would have 1 SSD per over sector, on call 24/7 to jump in to aid forces and prevent escapes.
Personally if i was in charge of the Empire, i would never have built either the SSDs or the Death Stars. I would have even questioned the ISD being the mainstay. Given the cost and crew requirement advantages of the Venator over the ISD and the fact it was still more powerful than most ships a rag tag insurgency could muster I would have kept this as the mainstay, with ISD's as more specialised ships to provide heavy oomph to a given fleet where needed. The Empire built a fleet to fight an enemy it never faced a fleet which would have been good in the capital ship heavy confrontations of the clone wars but as the saying goes "armies prepare to fight their last war, rather than their next war".
The obvious comparison to SSDs, and the fascination with "super weapons" in general, would be to the Germans during WWII.
I often lump the SSDs in with ships like the UNSC Infinity and CSO-Class super carrier from Halo, they're big, unwieldy ships that gobble up a shit ton of resources, development time and construction time to make and even more resources to opperate after the fact. Whats more, while these ships can be capable of doing a whole fleet's job for it, when they get crippled or destroyed, something made easy through smaller ships mobbing them or straight up sabotage, an entire fleet's worth of assets is lost with ONE SHIP. There's no feasible way to recover from a blow like that in the heat of battle, especially when this whole situation is highly avoidable. I mean take the Battle of Jakku in the new canon, SSD Ravager was the center of the Empire's fleet and quite potent at blowing up N.R. capital ships, then all it took was one SD's captain in the defensive line panicking to allow a single enemy capital ship in to tractor-beam the SSD Ravager into crashing planet-side. That's one ship downed, along with half the fleet's assets and it was downed as the result of one stupid mistake by one other ship's commander.
Alrighty, rant over XD
I would argue that, had they been properly incorporated into fleet doctrine and strategy, the SSD lines could have been devastatingly effective. They instead were often left to their own devices, making them easy prey for small ships to harass that could also outmaneuver the larger, hulking beasts.
Furthermore, the number could vary, but no more than a single SSD per fleet. SSDs are fleet-breakers, capital ship smashers, meant to take on large portions of an enemy fleet all at once, allowing other vessels to gang up and beat the rest of the enemy into submission while the SSD solos like half the enemy fleet.
If properly utilized, a SSD in a competently-built and structured fleet is almost impossible to take down. Furthermore, it requires an overwhelming amount of firepower to cause any significant damage to one, and it took the entire Rebel fleet composition at Endor attacking AT ONCE to even momentarily stagger the Executor.
These are "fuck around and find out" ships, no question.
The Super Star Destroyer was validated by the threat those ships posed to the New Republic years after Endor. Nearly every remnant faction was buoyed by the presence of an SSD they could call on and let small holdouts challenge the might of the majority galactic government.
The main issue was that they were handed out as rewards instead of assigned to the navy. The New Republic only wins because of the Imperial Civil War. A unified fleet with SSD's would have been able to hold onto large swathes of territory. The fact that the SSD's were handed out to those most likely to fracture the empire, only made it worse.
IMO, SSDs were fine, they could serve as flag ships and anchor to a large fleet. But when you combine the Death Star on top of that it gets ridiculous. I understand they had slave labor and materials. But between the 2 death stars, you could probably get 100 eclipse class SSDs with all those kyber crystals and still plenty more materials for additional Executors and ISDs. The death stars were a waste of resources and caused for more problems than they could ever hope to solve
In Thrawns Revenge SSDs are a gamechanger in battles and conquests. They can tank most hits away from your fleet and can take out a large number of ships before the need of retreating. SSDs defensively very well if you don't want to pump out smaller ships constantly to supply your defending fleets.
That’s what I do I also have them in my main fleets
SSDs were unwieldy and didn't really have a unique role. Build one for prestige reasons, then just stick to SDs that almost nothing on the galaxy could match anyway.
SSDs remind me of the old Yamato class battleships in some ways. Big, impressive, but probably not as useful as a small fleet of smaller ships/carrier aircraft. SSDs are after all just one ship and as such can be out maneuvered or just avoided.
Would have built 10 more SSDs over building the 2nd death Star. Eclipse class is as big as I would go.
if were gonna say that SSDs were a waste of resources, I don't think i'd start with that. the deathstar(s) were far more costly and probably not anywhere near as effective. The cost of RND alone on those things must have been near the price of an SSD. not saying one way or another whether they were a waste, but that there are bigger fish to fry when looking as resource management.
Problem with the tarkin doctrine here is, once the Death Star dies, justify it all you want but ANYTHING can die. It's all a lucky proton torpedo away for awhile. Goes from fear to underdogs
Should have built 75,000 Lancers. Three for every Star Destroyer.
5 minutes since upload and already over 400+ views. Damn.
The Death star was a waste of money, not to mention a big portion of the empires manpower was lost in its destruction my question is where the hell are they getting there people from 🤨
Should have made 3-5 keep them together when not in use and 1 or 2 can go off when it is an emergency
I really love Eck. He’s really well spoken, thoughtful and his channel has heart, unlike some others who only do it for money. Keep up the good work.
Putting aside personal feelings for the sequel trilogy, if the empire/palps was able to build fleets of xystons secretly there really was no fear of bankrupting the empire. So much money is spent in diverse projects. The death star is cool and all but yeah if the money was only spent for 5 ssd’s and the rest for xystons, that alone would be more than enough to crush any rebellion.
Two Xystons per Executor would be a good mix. The Executor provides fleet support, the Xystons snipe enemy capital ships that try to form large fleets or attack the Executor (in addition to destroying appropriate planets), and an assortment of more conventional ships perform all of the more boring work of the fleet.
I'm as impressed by how many Xyston's he builds, as I am with where they get the materials, AND the crew AND training for them.
Sure, it's 30 years. But 30 years to build *that* many star destroyers on a single planet?
SSDs would be good for defending worlds like coruscant
I think the naval traditionalist were right about SSDs not being worth it.
The Executor is a very big investment of time and resources to build and even more to crew. Can you really afford to lose it? If you can't, then what was the point in building her, because she won't be deployed in battles where you could lose her.
With the mass produced ISD, there's so many that losing a few here and there in bloody engagements would not be too bad.
If the Empire wanted a ship with overwhelming firepower, maybe building some Allegiance class BCs and a support fleet to go with them would be better than an Executor.
Maybe go as big as a Titan Class or a Bellator but not bigger. At the time of the galactic civil war there was no real point to anything bigger than a battlecruiser (who themselves were already pretty huge) the only reason I say keep the bellator is the speed, it could match fast response fleets and not slow down the reinforcements wich would have made it perfect against the rebels.
Imagine how easy it would have been for the Empire if the adopted the Malevolence, or at least the technology.
It was pretty easy for a band of small ships to take that one out too lol...
What company was the maker of star destroyers
Kuat Drive Yards, although they often subcontracted the design to other companies (e.g. Corellian Engineering Corporation) to build ISDs to meet the Navy's demands.
Here's the real problem with SSD's: if they're about the same density as an ISD (as in, not a hollow shell), then they represent an *astonishing* waste of material. An SSD has a similar form factor to an ISD, and is 11x as long. With similar shapes and densities, that means one SSD uses 11X11X11= *1300 times* as much material.
So you tell me, would you rather have one super star destroyer, or a fleet of thirteen hundred ISD-2s? Because they use a similar amount of material to build. Even accounting for the differences in form (narrower, not as tall proportionately), you're still talking about a mass factor of hundreds of times. Even if I'm off by 50%, imagine how much more control you can exert with 700 Star Destroyers. SSDs are just so wasteful.
I'd have to imagine that they'd have larger, proportionally, reactors, hangers, and workshops to maintain everything.
I'm not sure if it's 1300 times as much material, but it certainly is a waste.
Dude i always love the videos you made, if i am looking for some lore, i always go to your channel. You made me learn new things on legends and canon and stuff from other titles. You also introduced me to Spacedock and i love his ship breakdown reviews. Your the best Eck, im glad i found your channel years ago.
Really fun and interesting topic for sure. I still hold out hope we’ll see a live action Eclipse blasting or ramming away at smaller ships someday in a Star Wars film or show
Venator
SSDs and the death star were such a waste of recourses and manpower. There were more than enough star destroyers out there that could crush any rebellion and resistance. The problem always were smaller ships like anti starfighter frigates or patrol vessel's and so on. If the whole resources that were wasted on SSDs and the Death stars were put into production of smaller vessel's and starfighters the empire would have won so easily.
The problem is that the empires centralized approach is exactly that the rebels exploited through hit and run guerilla tactics. Space IS vast and you need quantity to police it. Soaking up resources into handfulls of "unstoppable" super weapons which at any point can be sabotaged, hijacked, or outrun was the exact opposite of what they should've done to counter the fast-paced and adaptable threat of the Rebellion. The Empire's greatest weakness was it's vanity. It cared more about symbolic representations of power over practical and adaptable strategies. Hence why the Republic's military, while not as immense and powerful in general, was far more flexible and effective at countering both a large military threat as well as small insurgencies.
One issue not having the SSD would bring is that the Mofs would be far more vulnerable on a standard SD which the Rebels could take out pretty affectively .....at least in legends they could
The Empire probably should have stopped at 4 SSDs, using them as strategic aggressive weapons against high value targets where their sheer presence could induce a sense of defeat in the enemy. Then spend the remaining resources in more traditional cruisers, frigates, and improved TIE fighters. In Legends the force projection of a squadron of starfighters that could enter hyberspace, strike a target, and then retreat was one of the weaknesses of the Empire and their heavy investment in large capital ships that couldn't be everywhere was critical to their defeat in the larger war.
Thrawn himself was heavily critical of the idea of superweapons. I think I saw them as a kind of institutional bad habit, like an ever-growing addiction.
SSDs are a waste of funds. The empire wouldn’t need more than ten.
There’s a reason that real world navies only have a handful of aircraft carriers.
That is still the theory that big ships like the super star destroyers and the Death Star were built to defend the Empire against the "Far Outsiders".
I can't help but equating the vainglorious projects of the Imperials like; the SSDs, Death Stars, etc to the fascination Hitler held for such bizarre "super weapons" of WWII such as the Karl Gustav 80 cm monster gun, the V2, the Me262, the "King Tiger" tank and a variety of other projects that were shockingly ineffective in combat but certainly effective as fear inducing psychological weapons. Such weapons almost bankrupt the Reich in the pursuit of "ultimate weapons" but in practicality, those funds would have been much better served resupplying proven effective weapons instead.
will the cost of death star in canon could have increased the size of the star destroyer fleet by 25%
My opinion are very interesting: an SSD are the best choice of weapon for... the late Rebel Alliance, the "legends" New Republic, or someting similar organization. Not for the Empire, or not as the backbone of the Empire fleet. Maybe, even the ISD are to big for the Empire, as a fleet workhorse. Carracks and Arquitens are just better for them.
Why? Because, an SSD are less crew intensive, compared to other capital ships. One SSD are more than 100-150 times bigger in volume, weight, and firepower, than an ISD. And, with "only" 279000 crew, instead of the 3.6 million (or 5.4 million) crewmember, what the 100-150 ISD needs. An Eclipse class are equivalent to 1000 ISD, but with "only" 700000 crew, instead of the 36 million(!) personnel of 1000 ISD.
Also, an SSD could launch 100's or 1000's of starfighters, shuttles, and subcapital ships. Also easy to carry smaller corvettes and frigates, and act as a mobil Rebel HQ/capital city.
I don't know if it's Canon or not but, Rogue Squadron basically took a Squadron of X-Wings, two Squadrons of deathseeds, and a fleet of civilian freighters with missile tubes basically duct taped and ratchet-strapped to them, and took on an SSD. Not just took on, THEY TOOK THE FIGHT TO THEM.
Yeah, I know, the Independence showed up, and what became the Errant Venture showed up and started vomiting A-Wings.
But, still, I don't care how powerful your warship is. You can't stand for long, taking repeated salvos of 300 torpedoes
Another, little problem with the SSD in the most cases is the lack of really heavy weapons. Basically, they are using similar caliber of weapons like an ISD, just much greater number. Sure, the Assertor is better, with bigger gun barrels, but... Remember the main guns of the Infinity class supercarrier from HALO? The 27 meter caliber coilguns? An Assertor sized hull could handle 8-10 of them, but in turrets... (OK, recoil is a thing in case of coilguns). Exactly like an oversized space battleship Yamato. Maybe, an Great Yamato, with underbelly turrets.
The SSDs are a microcosm (pun intended) of everything wrong with the whole Death Star project. They're super weapons which represent an enourmous resource sink for little real gain.
The Empire had no enemy these super weapon projects could be used against; they weren't fighting or even prospected to fight against an enemy with large fleets of capital ships. An SSD may be nigh invulnerable, but that makes the loss of one such ship all the more significant both from a resource and a prestige perspective. Meanwhile the SSDs didn't provide the Empire any new or, when accounting for resource usage, additional capability or utility. Less of it in fact. An SSD can do nothing a fleet of normal SDs of similar cost can't; it is however way less flexibile and a single point of failure for the entire investment while the fleet can afford losses here and there and cover a way larger area.
Hearing the intro, while already having Corey's video in the next tab for afterwards: "That's... Why I'm here..." ;-P
Definitely not worth the Empire's investment. If you want to say that the Empire HAS to build the SSDs, then build a handful, basically one for each major "geographical" portion of the galaxy. Think of them as sector fleet flagships. One for the Core, one for the Deep Core, 1-2 for the Mid-Rim, 1-2 for the Outer Rim. Then take all the resources in materiel and manpower that you saved and instead build hundreds/thousands of ISD/ISD IIs and invest in better starfighters (looking at you Tie Defender/Interceptor). With more ISDs on the field you can have the exact same amount of firepower that can be split for focused the same, only now each individual loss does less crippling damage to your force. If Death Squadron lost the Executor in any given battle, then I'd say roughly half of it's total combat effectiveness was gone with that single loss and the Rebels could jump away and still be able to claim a victory. Especially given how proven the SD line's weakness to starfighter assaults was. The Empire REALLY needed to invest in the Defender and FAR more Lancers.
Traditionalists are right. The SSD's are obviously really cool (both in universe and out), but their combat performance was not all that impressive. Just off the top of my head, the Executor went down at Endor against a much smaller fleet, the Iron Hand was defeated by the Mon Remonda and its fighters during the whole Warlord Zsinj incident, and the Lusankya was defeated by rogue squadron and a captured Victory Star Destroyer during the Bacta War. Given the choice between a SSD and 4-5 ISDs (presumably the cost comparison), I'm struggling to think of the tactical situation where you'd want the SSD.
The SSD's are the equivalent of the wunderwaffen project of the 3rd reich, like: we need big panzer hans, jaa.
Jaa, big panzer with big canon, we call it maus.
No hans, with warship canon and we name it ratte.
I'm sorry, why in the seven hells have I not seen that footage of the Lusankyea coming up from coruscant?
I would argue that having one SSD for each large fleet would be beneficial. But, personally I don't think that an Executor is a right tool for the job, I would advocate for something slightly larger then Bellator (8-10 km), armed with several Onager turrets (main guns from the Onager SD, put into giant turrets), equipped with gravity well projectors, possibly, a forward facing (or maybe even turreted) pulse ion cannon, similar to one used by Malevolence (if the technology is not lost), cause: "why glass the planet, if you can just turn the light off?", standard Bellator complement of turbolasers and thousands of point defense cannons. As for fighter complement, I would go with 50-ish... Lancer class frigates (most docked to the surface, but SSD hangars should be large enough to take several in for repairs), few Carrack cruisers, and maybe some TIE-something, but that doesn't really matter, besides of bombers and boarding crafts (need lots of those).
Although Lancers might struggle to keep up with the SSD's sublight speed, it can help them with its numerous tractor beam projectors.
Besides stated above, said SSD itself must be equipped with remote shield projectors (smaller versions of one used on Endor to protect the Death Star), in order to provide additional protection for it's complement of frigates (a frigate with a shield stronger than ISD's would be able to protect its carrier much better). Such projectors may also be used to protect other ships in the fleet in case their own shields happen to be down.
The SSD above would have several purposes:
1.Planet shied penetration
2.Ability to destroy almost any fleet without the latter having any realistic chances to escape
3.System protection
IMHO the Empire’s main problem after ex-CIS holdouts were eradicated was dealing with the Rebels’ guerilla tactics. Their fleet was supremely well suited to defeat capital ships thanks to the already powerful and massive ISD and smaller classes, but the Navy was ill equipped against small, nimble starfighters.
All the money sunk into superweapons might have been better spent on Lancer-class frigates and fast tracking the TIE Advanced and Defender projects.
Besides, while the SSD might have been iconic and awe-inducing, it also came with a fatal flaw as the Battle of Endor proved. And Princess Leia was right, the Tarkin doctrine backfired by making the Rebellion even more resolute.
In my version of the Star Wars galaxy, the Empire makes 1 Executor class each for the Grand Admirals... and an Eclipse for the Empress, but no Death Star
Thrawn was right.
40 to 60 Super Star Destroyers? Imagine all the TIE Defenders or missile boats you could build instead of that!
(Did any of these Super-duper Star Destroyers EVER achieve anything of great importance, other than acting like a huge target practice? Much like the real-life Yamato)
It's the same question you could ask the US Navy should they have more light Carriers or 12 Super Carriers... Or pre WW2 should they build battleships or stick with cruisers and destroys... It's an argument military strategist have been having for awhile fewer yet bigger with more capabilities or more smaller ships with fewer capabilities...
What would the Imperial Navy look like if Emperor Palpatine gave Grand Admiral Thrawn carte blanche in revamping the navy and R&D? Now that would be something else!
The money and resources would have been better spent making more ISDs, or some improved model. The ISD was already big enough. SSDs lack flexibility, it's a huge concentration of force in a small area. Fine when you're attacking an enemy and want overwhelming force, but not so useful when the enemy is spread out. And if somehow an SSD is taken out, that is a HUGE loss. A small fleet of ISDs (and auxiliary ships) would provide more flexibility, could cover more space, come together when needed, and thus give the Rebels a much harder time.
Imagine the face of the poor imperial bureaucrat who thought the SSD project was a waste of time & credits, with the Executor herself facing countless production delays & budget overdrafts & deadline extensions, only to find out that the supposedly 4km long starship was instead a _Massive_ 18km long dreadnought!
“Oh…. So that’s what all the budget expansions were going to..”
The Empire in general had a very bad case of refight-the-last-war syndrome. During the Clone Wars, the Republic Navy was outmatched by the Seperatist Navy with its swarms of droid starfighters and powerful capital ships. The Imperial Navy would have wiped the floor with them using those enormous super weapons and swarms of TIE fighters (although the V-Wing would have been a far better choice here in every conceivable way).
However, the Empire wasn't fighting a symmetrical war at all. They would have needed a vast number of smaller vessels to police their territory, better starfighters and more special forces adept to hunt down individual rebel cells.
Tldr: Thrawn was right all along! Not much of a surprise, isn't it?
Wasn't the executor killed by a fucking A-Wing going through it's bridge? It seems like you're kinda overstating it's invincibility.
That said, it'd probably be better for the Empire to build more SSDs rather than Death Stars. With some adjustment an SSD could function as a carrier, for SD's and whatever other ships you care to stuff in there.
That way it could be both practical and fulfill the goals of the Tarkin Doctrine.
More SSDs should be built, I don't know how many Viscount class Star Defenders that NR built, but I think with the impressive number of Imperial SSDs, like 2 or 3 SSDs led fleet in a large fleet engagement would outgun the NR fleet with relative ease. I just seldom see more than one SSD participating in a large fleet battle. The mass production of Sovereign-class SSDs and Eclipse-class SSDs would help Imperial forces to stand against NR forces with more of a fighting chance.
Should have abandoned the dreadnaughts and instead gone smaller. Lancers, Carracks, Nebulon-Bs, Ton-Falks, TIE-Defenders, and Victory Star Destroyers. Very clearly, there was no force in the galaxy that was matching them in a capital ship slugfest, so they would have been much better off addressing their weaknesses (defense against fighter attacks more than anything else).
I would agree with the rest of the imperial navy. For all the grand size of the dreadnoughts they barely ever got used. 12000 Nebulon-bs or whatever you could buy. For what got wasted on fat white elephants that just sat in a dockyard somewhere.
The job of the Super Star Destroyers of Star Wars is equivalent to the modern Air Craft Carrier - force projection (military, not Jedi). If one rolls up in your area of the galaxy/world someone is in for a bad time.
EDIT: Bad time is *_normally_* dependent on that visit being unscheduled/unannounced.
The Super Destroyers were very powerful against Big ship to Big ship but if they were put against something small and fast like the A-Wing that destroyed the Executer at the Battle of Endor. It can only hit something regular size like a Mon Calamari cruiser or possibly Nebulon-B escort frigate. If I was put against a Super Destroyer I would use mostly fighters and to counter the Tie-Fighters it would launch I would use Corvettes. The money could have been used somewhere else like building or researching in new technology's like Hyperspace tracking or better weaponry.
i making some list of starships halo+ starwars + fan desing
FORERRUNER THE ARK -EL ARCA 127530 KM HALO
FORERRUNER THE HALO- EL ANILLO 10 000 KM HALO
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO PALPATINE EYE 4900 KM STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO Alpha class super star Destroyer 1250 KM STARWARS
PRIMERA ORDEN FIRST ORDER STARKILLER BASE BASE STARKILLER 660 KM STARWARS
COVENANT COVENAT CITY HIGH CHARITY -GRAN CARIDAD 505 KM HALO
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO Ethernal Destiny ascendancy class super star Destroyer 500 KM STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO ASKAR CLASS INTERDICTOR 350 KM STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO ASKAR CASS STAR DREADNOUGHT 300 KM STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO Ultra star destroyer 300 KM STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO Imperium ultra class II super star Destroyer 260 KM STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO IMPERIUM ULTRA CLASS STAR DESTROYER 260 KM STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO Imperium I ultra super star Destroyer 200 KM STARWARS
IMPERIO GALACTICO Deathstar II 900 KM STARWARS
IMPERIO GALACTICO DEATH TAR I 120 KM STARWARS
IMPERIO GALACTICO DEATHSTAR PROTOTIPE 120 KM STARWARS
IMPERIO GALACTICO UKNOUN SUPER STAR DETROYER 156000 M STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO Tarking battlestaton 70 KM STARWARS
VIEJO IMPERIO GALACTICO STARFORGE 65 KM STARWARS
PRIMERA ORDEN SUPREMACY MEGA CLASS STAR DREADNAUGHT 60000 M STARWARS
PRIMERA ORDEN ¿ FIRT ORSDER ¿ECLIPSE CLAS SUPER HEAVY STAR DREADNOUGT-SUN COLLECTOR DESTROYER 60000 M STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO TARKING I CLASS SUPER STAR DREADNOUGHT 52500 M STARWARS
IMPERIO GALACTICO ECLIPSE CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER 35000 M PERSPECTIVE VS EXECUTOR 35000 M STARWARS
IMPERIO GALACTICO ECLIPSE I CLASS SUPER STAR DREADNOUGHT 35000 M STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO SOBEREIGHT CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER (SOBEREIST) 30600 M STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO ULTRA IMPERIUM CLASS SUPER STAR DETROYER 30000 M STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO COVENANT SUOER CARRIER CSC LARGA NOCHE DE CONSUELO 28980M HALO
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO FEROCIOUS CLASS SUPER STAR DREADNOUGHT 28500 M STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO MALEVOLENT II CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER 21000 M STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO Armada Quentin Vautrin 19800M STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO Vanguard class super star Destroyer 19800M STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO MALEVOLENT I CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER 19600 M STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO Executor ssd I EXECUTOR SSD III CITADEL CHANGES 19600 M STARWARS
REMANENTE IMPERIO GALACTICO Decreto class super star Destroyer 19500 M STARWARS
IMPERIO GALACTICO EXECUTOR CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER OLD CANNON 19000 M STARWARS
IMPERIO GALACTICO LEGACY CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER DREADNOUGHT 19000M STARWARS
IMPERIO GALACTICO MEGATOR CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER 19000M STARWARS
IMPERIUM SUPER STAR DESTROYER 19000M
DOMINANCE SUPER STAR DESTROYER 19000M
VENGANCE III CLASS STAR DREADNOUGHT 19000M
(EXECUTOR CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER ¿?¿?) = new cannon 17600M
K D Y ECLIPSE CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER II 17500M
Wyvern Class Super Dreadnought. 15600M
SOBEREIGHT CLASS BATTLECRUIER 15300M
KDY SOBEREIGHT CLASS SUPER STAR DETROYER 15200M
ROGUE CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER 15000M
ARAMADIA CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER 15000M
LEGATOR CLASS DREADNOUGHT 15000M
ASERTOR CLASS DREADNOUGHT 15000M
IMPLACABLE CLASS STAR DREADNOUGHT DARK 15000M
IMPLACABLE CLASS STAR DREADNOUGHT WITHE 15000M
VENGANCE II STAR DESTROYER 15000M
REGENT CLASS UPER STAR DESTROYER 15000M
ANIHILATOR CLASS STAR DETROYER 15000M
SOVEREIGAL CLASS BATTLECRUISER 13300M
UNSC UNSC CRANDLE 13200M HALO
THE DARSABER SUPERWEAPON 13000M
SUPER STAR DESTROYER CLASS 12800M
EXCALIBUR CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER 12800M
CANTWELL CLASS ARRESTOR CRUIER 12000M
MANDATOR III DREADNOUGHT CLASS MANDALORIAN 12000M
MANDATOR III DREADNOUGHT 12000M
FIRST ORDER CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER 11664¿?
INQUISITOR CLASS SUPER STAR DESTROYER 11400M
UNSC UNSC DREADNOUGHT 10700M HALO
VENGANCE I CLASS STAR DESTROYER 10100M
NEMESIS CLASS DREADNOUGHT 10000M
THE ARC HAMMER 9600M
SUPER CLASS STAR DESTROYER 8000M
LEGATOR CLASS II STAR DREADNOUGHT 8000M
MANDATOR II DREADNOUGHT 8000M
MANDATOR I DREADNOUGHT 8000M
MANDATOR IV DREADNOUGHT- 7669M
DREJ MOTHERSHIP 7620M
GALAXY GUNN 7260M
BELLATOR CLASS BATTLECRUISER 7200M
FIRST ORDER INFERNAL CLASS HEAVY STAR DETROYER 6400M
COVENANT BRIGANTINE 6367M HALO
TERMINUS CLASS STAR DESTROYER 6000M
ALTERNATIVE MANDATOR III DREDNOUGHT 6000M
TITAN CLASS STAR DESTROYER 5700M
PREATOR II CLASS BATTLECRUISER 6400M
UNSC UNSC INFINITY 5694M HALO
WAR HAMMER CLASS HEAVY CRUIER 5500M
COVENANT CAS-COVENANT ASSAULT CARRIER 5347M HALO
NEMESIS CLASS STAR DESTROYER II 5200M
NEMESIS CLASS STAR DESTROYER I 5200M
INVICTUS CLASS BATTLECRUIER 4565M
COMPELLOR CLASS STAR CRUISER 4300M
GRANDMASTER BATTLECRUISER 4037M
SPECTOR CLASS STAR BATTLESHIP 4000M
IMPERIAL EVISCERAPTOR CLASS STAR DESTROYER 4000M
PREATOR I BATTLECRUISER 4000M
IMPELLOR CLASS FLEET CARRIER 3500M
GALACTIC REMANENT VECTOR CLASS DESTROYER /CARRIER 3200M
FIRST ORDER ULTIMUS IMPERATOR CLASS STAR DESTOYER 3200M