Marvel Phase Two is in the Wrong Order
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
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While MCU Phases One and Three work very well as complete stories, there always felt like there was something off about Phase Two. And I finally figured out what. Phase Two is in the wrong order.
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Related: The Incredible Hulk is a better film if you watch it after Captain America because you understand what sort of Hero they are trying to recreate after they lost Steve
That's interesting! 👍
Agreed. I always watch Phase 1:
Captain America
Incredible Hulk
Iron Man 1&2
Thor
Avengers
It tells a better story of super soldiers, Tony, and Thor&Loki.
PavarottiAardvark yeah I agree
@@michaela.webermann4141 Sounds great! Only (very minor) problem would be Tony Stark cameo in The Incredible Hulk post-credit scene.
Addibro - yeah pretty much any Marvel order scramble falls apart with post credit scenes. I typically just watch the credit scenes on UA-cam in whatever order they fit nicest (the Hulk one after Iron Man instead)
Phase 1: Construction of the hero
Phase 2: Deconstruction of the hero
Phase 3: Destruction of the hero
Phase 4? : Villains deceptively become “heroes”
(Mysterio, US Agent in Falcon and the winter soldier probably, Thunderbolts maybe introduced or Dark Avengers/Dark Reign)
Hmm. Birth, Death, Rebirth. That sounds oddly familiar to the proposed trilogy around a certain other SUPERhero that everyone shat on.
@@northwindkey Are you implying that it didn't deserve to be shat on just because it follows a similar and very spread through-line? Also the Avengers are more like Birth (Av1) - Life (AoU) - Death (AIW) - Ascension (AE)
I believe that Phase 3 is the reconstruction of the hero. Endgame ended with the Avengers more heroic than ever
Phase 4: Replacement of the hero
Reasoning? They're setting up for young avengers and dark avengers
“Marvel Phase Two is in the Wrong Order”
Kevin Feige with the Time Stone: It’s Rewind time.
the stones are gone
Amit Barabi multiverse. Also the Quantum Realm.
No, Feige's yelling "YOU'RE out of order! THEY'RE out of order! The whole WORLD'S out of order!!"
😂
Ohhh that's hot
Never really noticed how Tony barely wears a suit in Civil War, but this makes a lot of sense. Ironically, that’s probably my favorite version of Tony.
I know a lot of people were campaigning for Chris Evans and RDJ for Oscars for Endgame, but I think that if they deserved recognition for any performance, it was definitely Civil War. Civil War Tony was fantastic
Tony only wears a suit when he attends prestigious events
Mark Cruz Airports in Germany are very prestigious :)
Get it? "Ironically" like...Iron? Ok, I'll show myself out
SladerProductions 👏👏👏 well done
I like to see somebody do small edits to these movies, so they can all fit in the Nando order
I kind of want to try (even though some edits seem nearly impossible)
@@DewitNow by all means, give it a shot
@@DewitNow Speech synthesis is pretty widely available these days, so turning Jarvis into Friday wouldn't be too big of an ask, really.
You could just watch the Marvel Movies on Disney Plus in this order!
@@DewitNow dewit
what got me was when Feige was asked why civil war happened, he responded "So the avengers are not a cohesive unit moving forward into Infinity War."
So it makes sense, like Nando said, you want to have characters at their worst at the end of the second act, but what rubbed me the wrong was was that the reasoning only spoke to future events. It was an argument that we need this effect so here is a cause.
Nando's order in contrast gives us that the individual Avengers are feeling loss so when Civil war happens they are left separated. It reinforces a narrative based cause an effect.
If we use a three act structure to compartmentalize the Avengers movies, the acts are as it follows
Act 1: The Avengers
Act 2: Age of Ultron + Infinity War (ending with the characters at their worst)
Act 3: Endgame
I assume you put Guardians before Age of Ultron because it explains the Infinity Stones easily to a new audience and so it makes sense when pop up in AoU? You said you'd explain why you put Guardians where it was but if you did then I think I missed it 😅
I think he put it there because Thor’s post credit scene transitions well into Guardians since it features the Collector. Other than that, the Order doesn’t really matter as Guardians was already the last movie released before Age of Ultron came out
same here
Reclaimer 0101 I agree with that. Also capturing Loki at the end of the first avengers leads directly into the beginning of Thor 2
Yeah but Age of Ultron was literally the next release after Guardians so that's how everyone experienced the infinity stones anyway?
Doesn’t Guardians of the Galaxy come before Age of Ultron anyway (chronologically)
The helicarrier is in age of Ultron is called by Coulson at the end of season 2, although if you're ignoring the TV shows (like marvel does) then you wouldn't know that, but agents does flesh out the story of shield after winter soldier
Edit: Thanks for all the likes!
Agents of shield does a lot there, yes, but especially after one of the movie execs said that in "movie canon" coulson is dead I think it's clear they're separating the two and the helicarrier in AoU really is coming off as an ex ´machina
@@ZeeDrakon Yeah, it just bums me out. When infinity war was first announced way back when, the agents and characters from the Netflix shows were on the cast list. Would have loved to see a version like that, but at this point, marvel tv has nothing to do with the movie studio
Oh, like the MCU actually considers that show canon.
@@garrettcarter5622 Well I think they did, but not anymore
@@ZeeDrakon It was Whedon who said that about Coulson, but he's not exactly wrong if one is only watching the movies, then as far the story is gonig he's dead, but we know he's alive if your watching the series
I LOVE how you don't just point at the problems and complain about them, but also always has a creative solution. Thank you, I am inspired
*cough* hi-top films
Yeah sometimes it gets a bit much when critics just complain and not suggest any improvements.
The way this makes 100x more sense and probably would have helped Civil War fit better in the universe
I think you close out Phase 2 with Civil War... there's your Empire Strikes Back, all hope is lost ending, right there...
Phase 3 has so many movies in it already, it makes sense to me to end with a fractured Avengers.
Edit: aaaaaaand if I had waited literally thirty seconds longer before posting this comment, I would have seen that he did, in fact, do that...
so... never mind...
@gerizzyYMcrew You wanna explain your point, or are you gonna try and argue against a 20 minute video with one word?
@@mattbrendlen Infinity War is TESB
Omar Ramirez why would he have to, there's no point
@@englandderogatory9224 He doesn't have to do anything. I'm just asking him to explain his point so I can understand his point and see where he is coming from.
Tony doesn’t give up being Iron Man at the end of Iron Man 3, he starts over. It’s called the “clean slate protocol” and it serves as a way to shave down the suits as a distraction from Pepper and his well-being. He never said he was done being Iron Man.
"Tony suddenly has an army of drones."
tfw you realize they did that in Spider-Man: Far From Home also...
The MCU or: Tony Stark never learns
@@Stealthwilde he does
he does but then gives a wmd to a teenager
@@knightghost1782 yeah, this time he made even more drones so if the drones were stolen, he could send more drones to stop them
This was perfect. My ONLY problem throughout was that it wouldn't feel climactic an ending, but adding Civil War fixes that. This is now my headcanon ordering.
I always assumed that Civil War was part of Phase 2, it really does feel climatic imo. And to my knowledge it starts off phase 3 or doesn't conflict with whatever does start phase 3 so it works.
I guess they always want to neatly finish a phase with an avengers movie, but Civil War kind of is one.
@@shanez1215 so far, only phase 1 has ended with an Avengers movie. Phase 2 was Ant-Man, phase 3 was Spider-Man: Far From Home.
Nando: MCU is broken and the fix is...
Everybody: ???
Nando:MORE JUSTIN HAMMER!!!! You're all welcome
If you want to nail it, you can't go wrong with more Hammer.
Hammer is Nando's cowbell...
I mean... Hammer certainly would improve it. Can’t go wrong there.
We need more Sam Rockwell in the MCU. A lot more.
“Bring back Sam Rockwell, you cowards”.
-Patrick H Willems, 2019
Nando: Creates a view order to enhance first time viewing experience
Also Nando: spoils everything about the movies in the view order
was literally skipping around marvel supercuts thinking "you know somebody could really do better with a ultracut movie" and then I check my inbox and like okay
Start thinking about cures for cancer and stumbling upon an investment that will make you enough money to live a comfortable life while taking care of those you love... Actually scratch all that, think about someone finding out how many licks it takes to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop.
Nando really do be like Thanos saying "Reality can be whatever I want" for phase 2
I actually watched Iron Man 3 and Winter Soldier after Age of Ultron, so I can confirm that this works
Edit: Not that there isn't continuity errors, but that the tone of the movies fits better this way.
No it doesn’t 🤦♂️
You have to watch agents of sheild to
Rook k Just like Kevin Feige, we don’t care AoS
who would tony be talking to in Iron man 3 since hulk left at the end of Age of ultron
@@jrdakid14 just put a different post-credit scene, it's not like that was an important part of the movie 😅
I always thought it was weird how IM3 ended the way it did, and Tony has suits again in AoU.
The worst thing is people blame that on IM3 (which us great), completely.missing the symbolism. I also don't think its AoU's complete fault either as if you take a minute to think about it, his motivations do track. But, it is a bit jarring as there is no time to mull it over or at least a scene to drill down what the end of IM3 meant.
@Sir Knight Errant Agreed. The only true flaws of both: in AOU, there wasn't enough James Spader; in IM3, there wasn't enough Sam Rockwell :P (Oh! You could replace IM3's post credits scene with the Hail to the King one-shot!)
It’s only weird with the intro battle tho which you can easily rationalise as “well I mean it was important” the main reason he creates ultron and the drones is to create the world where the avengers aren’t needed, where he doesn’t have to be iron man so he can be with pepper, but when that doesn’t work with ultron going rogue he has to deal with that issue himself as he’s responsible for it, after that he continues being iron man leading to the issues between pepper and tony in civil war because he did choose to continue being iron man as well as why he’s so open to the accords because he still feels the weight of ultron
You know, I think I always took for granted that Civil War *was* in Phase 2, simply because in the lead up to Age of Ultron when we learned about Civil War being the next CA installment, the actors on social media made relentless jokes about why their characters might fight each other. Plus, AOU itself already establishes some fundamental disagreements between Tony and Steve that make the film feel like a Civil War pre-game show. So I definitely agree that it belongs there.
It’s not. It’s phase 3
You'll also have to get rid of literally EVERY reference to the Avengers fighting Hydra in the first part of Av2 -- not just one throwaway line. In fact you have no clear reason why they're fighting these people at all, other than being a paramilitary group who got hold of Loki's scepter, but how the heck did that even happen? (Edited to add: I do like the idea in principle tho.)
I actually always found the fact the Avengers were there odd anyway. Yeah, they were residual Hydra, but I never felt that they seemed to present an Avengers level threat.
A Simple fix, hydra is known to still be around but the default assumption is that they are a small threat that has no real relevance till we learn that they are literally within shield itself...the paramilitary group is a red herring.
They are there due to events that happened on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. since Joss Whedon was the executive producer for the show and since at the time they were still attempting to do cross production with the movies influencing the show.
@gerizzyYMcrew true. I just posted that to help explain why the Avengers and not S.H.I.E.L.D. was at Barron Von Strucker's hideout. AoS basically was supplemental material for Phase 2 since just about every movie affected the show.
@@VolvoxSocks They were looking for the Scepter that contained the mind stone.
If I may add a new post-credit scene for Winter Soldier:
We cut back to Sam’s veteran’s of war meeting, a woman walks in. Sam asks who she is, she replies “a victim of war, who would appreciate your help.” Camera pans up, it’s Wanda Maximoff!
Don't even pan up. Keep the camera on him, and we see him recognise her voice, and slowly smile. Since he'd know of her from AoU
@@tigamaki1345 in Nando's version sam doesn't appear in age of ultron
Nic Woolfe
aw. yeah that'd be pretty nice to see her still being around and "active"
@@filthyneutral5801 I meant more, she'd have presumably appeared on the news and stuff between the "stop the train" incident, and also the whole floating city battle she took part in.
That's why i said know of, not know ^^
Filthy Neutral He could still appear I mean it’s a Stark party, so people can come from all over
Cinemawins said something that I think explains the ending of iron man 3 the best. The clean slate wasn't him ending iron man, but him putting other things in his life, like pepper. I just think he was turning a new leaf
4:13 “Age of Ultron makes two decisions that I really do not agree with. The first is-“
Me: *KILLING OFF QUICKSILVER! KILLING OFF QUICKSILVER!!!*
They had a deal with fox where they could use him in one movie only, because of quicksilver in the x men movies
Fun fact, if not for that deal, that scene where they send Clint back in endgame? That was supposed to be to get him.
@@DParkerNunya
I think Endgame missed a perfect opportunity to bring Quicksilver back the way they brought back Gamora.
Just let him be dead. Coulson's apparently back, Gamora's apparently back, and Black Widow is kind of back for one more movie. Just let the people who actually die stay dead.
@@bloocheeseformaboi881
Too bad Loki isn't one of those people who stays dead.
These movies will be RE-ORGANISED into the First! Nando! Order!
I saw it and I clapped!!
Age of ultron always felt like the iron man 2 of the avengers. I like iron man 2 but it spent too much of its time setting up future movies. Ultron felt important because of what it set up
Iron man 2 only had two scenes setting up future movies, not sure why everyone thinks that
Brad Aiello it’s because it spends what at first felt like an out of place story segment in an already overcrowded movie.
@@samjackson9560 I understand what you mean, I personally enjoy the set ups, but they all do feel out of place, but I think it helped build up the Avengers
@gerizzyYMcrew he didn't even criticize either one of the movies
@@samjackson9560 and yea age of ultron to me almost felt like Iron man 4 lol but I still loved most of it
the issue is winter soldier directly sets up Avengers 2. The whole reason the avengers reunite is that Shield falls.
Another issue is that we see Hulk leaving earth in a quinjet by the end of Ultron while the end credit scene in Iron Man 3 showed Tony talking to Bruce.
The Iron Man 3 ending contradicts with Bruce and Hulk's appearances in Thor: Ragnarok because how can they still be on earth if they're on Sakarr battling Thor?
@@loudboy317 He said that scene wouldnt exist, did you watch the vídeo?
@@pretendtheresaname9213
I did watch the video but he's wrong to assume that scene wouldn't exist because in Iron Man 3, JARVIS is still a computer program while in Age of Ultron, he's downloaded into Vision's body. That is another reason why Iron Man 3 shouldn't be placed after Age of Ultron.
@@loudboy317 Which he also addressed, did you watch the video? It seems like you didn't watch the video despite saying you did.
@@gerrya2133
I did watch the whole video. His idea of phase 2 still wouldn't work.
If that's the case, Age of Ultron should drop the entire "Hydra" part since Hydra is to be revealed working in the Winter Soldier, which is set after Age of Ultron in this new order.
A comment above proposed this, but some rewriting could be involved wherein Hydra is still around after The First Avenger but isn't a particularly major threat, but that the paramilitary organization was a red herring to conceal the true nature of Hydra, lurking within Shield.
@@DevNode27 But that doesn't explain how they had Loki's scepter there when that was last seen in the Avengers with Shield.
@@DevNode27 hmm okay that does kind of work, I just think it still takes away from the impact that not only has SHIELD been compromised but the *how* as well. Everyone in-universe thought Hydra was gone, which makes their return in TWS even more sinister.
@@lingy69 It's in endgame where cap says 'Hail Hydra'
and well it doesnt make sense why stark creates ultron realy sure there is this dream, because if you look at how original order goes tony fight kilian learns no matter how many suits he has they are not realy the anwser unless he has some special sauce he has to get working aka ultron
I never saw the appearance of shield as weird or out of place in AoU, maybe because in agents of shield we were shown that shield wasn’t completely dismantled, we see that like half the agents were actually from hydra but there’s a portion of shield still functioning
Start of video: Why change the movies, why not change the order
End of video: Makes more changes to the movies than would have had to the first time around.
😂 jk it’s a gr8 video and I get your points. Personally the release order still works for me but I totally get it.
To be fair, I think the idea is that Tony is trying to step away from being Iron Man after 3, dropping the idea of these suits he controls for an AI that controls them without his input; but he has to step back into the suit until Ultron is ready, and then full-time because Ultron didn't pan out. Kinda like his plan for an Iron Man team in the anime that he has to drop at the end of episode 1.
I just thought of tag lines for the boxes of these movies based on "The Nandorder". Phase one: Assembled, Phase two: Disassembled, Phase three: Reassembled
Agents of SHIELD Season 2 actually explains where the Helicarrier in the end of Age of Ultron comes from
yeah but the general audience probably doesn't watch agents of shield and only watches the movies without any regard to what happens in the shows. the movies and shows tend to exist as separate properties anyway, so it's better to have a cohesive movie phase than to force a movie audience watch the shows to understand
You shouldn’t need to watch 2 series of a show that has a separate continuity to understand the MCU.
@@musicalbrit3465 except during the time of Agents of Shield season 2, A.O.S was apart of the MCU Timeline and continuity and still is lol. The Only time it when it was out of the timeline was when it went into the future but it came back to the timeline during the last episode lol.
@@Spidervenom23 I haven’t seen AOC but isn’t coulson literally still alive? I’m pretty sure it follows the same events but isn’t actually a part of the MCU and the stuff that happens in it haven’t happened in the actual continuity.
The MCU should stand by itself anyway- as I said, you shouldn’t HAVE to watch AOC to understand where the helicarrier comes from. It should’ve been set up properly within the story.
@@musicalbrit3465 AOS is apart of the MCU as well as Agent Carter. Coulson team was the reason why the Rogue Avengers was able live off the books as long as they did until IW. The Only time you can say that AOS wasn't apart is when they start time-traveling into the future but that Timeline is pretty much Dead and gone by the end of Season 6 I think and they are back into the MCU Canon by the end of the last season.
I'm in the middle of an MCU rewatch and honestly this really works for me. I have been pushing Civil War because it really didnt feel like a follow-up to Ultron.
Ultron could use the rework. A lot of the characters have 1 liners that are funny, but not organic to how that character would act in the moment. Although I would miss the Falcon cameos, but I just love Falcon.
14:43 Avengers: Age of Ultron should have been called "Avengers: Reassembling The Avengers To Do Another Avengers".
Tbh the MCU has always been a bit of a mess and all over the place. I guess downtime is finally getting people to ask questions lol
It's just phase two.
@@nathanieldiaz5254 phase 3 has similar problems. The big issue is that films are announced before they even have a script, then they find plot points that, despite being out of order, make more sense for certain characters. Then stuff gets all wonky when they get released. That's why we get lighthearted heist romp Ant-Man 2 coming out immediately after half of the entire universe gets destroyed
@@harrylane4 I think it works well- ant man 2 happens pretty much alongside infinity war, and I love how the lighthearted tone of the movie is completely contrasted with its end credit scene- for most of the people living on the MCU earth, they didn’t have any clue about the snap until it happened. People were probably just messing around and having fun one minute and then the next the people they were laughing with have literally turned to dust. It’s the juxtaposition that’s truly horrifying.
Another I love about the order is we didn't really get to see the Avengers spend time as a team in Avengers Tower, as soon as they were shown in AOU, that same time had them move out from there to Avengers compound which was being run by SHIELD not Tony Stark. So to move from AOU into Winter Soldier makes a lot of sense. You could even swap the last two movies in the Nando order to have Ant-Man be the last movie since the post-credits scene alludes to Civil War to make it seem a more organic transition
I disagree. Iron Man 3 perfectly sets up Tony and his headspace for AOU, The Winter Soldier also perfectly leads Cap into AOU, and Thor Dark World does as well. In Iron Man 3, Tony said he was “trimming down” the Iron Man thing, in other words NOT retiring! Age of Ultron also starts by the Avengers cleaning up Hydra after TWS so that would not only take away an entire opening action sequence that connects beautifully to TWS, but it would also keep hydra out of the picture which would mean that you would have to do MAJOR reconstruction to AOU since hydra had the scepter. Also, shield is still shut down in AOU, they literally say so early on in the film. Just because Fury had access to an old helicarrier doesn’t mean shield is still operational.
Plus, in regards to your AOU opinion, Age of Ultron has better character development than the first Avengers! Less like caricatures and more like relatable humans.
I love this idea however there's too many lil changes that does ruin the continuity....
I know, it adds more problems than it fixes so its pointless
The surprise helicarrier is actually explained in Agents of SHIELD.
Thank you for pointing this out
Which season?
Pef S season 2. Its referred to as the Theta Protocol.
@@lestertjester4140 Thanks! I was just wondering how far I was. I'm still in the first half of season 2.
Yeah but the problem with that is wile everyone that watched Agents also watched the movies but not everyone that watched the movies watched agents. As much as I love Agents of SHIELD the helicarrier should have been explained somehow in the movie and not in the show.
So you're saying for your version of this to work we have to ignore details, pretend characters aren't who they are and we have to dismiss lines characters say. It's a swing and a miss for me. If you're telling me to ignore characters and dialogue in order for your order to make sense then it fails
Yeah, I agree. Machete order works because you don't have to do any of that for the story of Star Wars to work if you watch the movies in that order, since unlike here you aren't actually changing when in the overall timeline the movies take place. I usually agree with Nando's videos, and I do think he has a point that it would have made Phase 2 better if the movies were actually done in that order, but I think he really dropped the ball here by suggesting we actually watch the videos in said order and ignore everything that doesn't fit.
UA-camr: *makes video about Age of Ultron w/o mentioning Agent's of S.H.I.E.L.D.*
AoS fans: "Umm, actually..."
Didn't it come back between films on the show? That's what I recall.
Who watches Agents of Shield?
Me I do.
And this is the trouble of running a TV show that people MAY not realize actually ties into the bigger feature films.
@@comixproviderftw_02 A lot of people
Nando V Movies: Phase 2 Marvel films' order is wrong
Me : *Laughs in DCEU*
For that part about Star Wars at the beginning I disagree. It's not Luke's story, it's Anakin's. George Lucas himself said it.
When I first saw Age of Ultron I thought about the Helicarrier thing and was like "Huh? But isn't SHEILD gone?" But then as the movies went on and started to get crazier, I completely forgot about it.
I always felt that Phase 2 was a bit of a mess. Much as I like Civil War, it shoulda been an Avengers film instead of a Captain America film. Captain America 3 shoulda been based on the Nomad story from the comics. Cap witnesses a depressed U.S. President commit suicide, shaking his faith in America. He tries to cut ties to the government but they own the name Captain America so he ditches the identity to become Nomad. But then Red Skull returns and kills a kid wearing a Cap costume, forcing him to reclaim his mantle. Also Age of Ultron & Civil War shoulda been the same film, Ultron manipulates the Civil War to distract the Avengers from his scheme.
No
This absolutely has to be one of if not the best videos you’ve made Nando. Me and my ma love these and I know she’ll love this one
"I'll explain why guardians goes before AoU" *never explains it*. It's because of the infinity stones and Thor's quest at the end of AoU isn't it.
4:31 This was explained it Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (seasons 1 and 2).
10:44 He didn't destroy *all* of his suits. We knew he had at least 40, and the ones that were destroyed in Iron Man 3 were at most 20.
tl;dr Joss wrote a sequel to his first avengers film foremost, and an mcu film second
It's kind of crazy to see this fit together so well. You nailed the corrections, and everyone's character development feels much more fluid and natural. Well done!
Now this is my headcanon order. As you said, you just need to imagine some lines being different and don't watch 1 post-credit scene.
Although, in your version of Iron-Man 3, Tony could just be using a different AI with a Jarvis text-to-speech over it.
Oh yeah, when I first saw the first two Avengers movies, I wasn't really aware of the non-Iron Man movies, so I just accepted what I was seeing. This sort of brings that back.
So we're just gonna ignore the gem that is Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.?
As someone who hasn't watch the MCU movies but has seen AoS I was wondering what his new order would mean for the show.
@@lemurwrench6344 you haven't watched MCU movies, but have seen the show?? Wow, you really are in the minority, but also my new favourite person 😀 AoS is my favorite part of the whole MCU! So personally, I'd like to watch the (phase 2) movies in telecast order, if only for the two biggest crossovers - CA:WS and AoU are in that order
@aydooknow I can't argue with you coz I can't be objective about AoS. Would just like to point out I didn't say it is the most premier series, I said it was my most favourite part. Also, since Carter crossed over with AoS, and Jarvis ended up in Endgame, AoS is cannon unless something specific happens that goes against it. The snap? I'll reserve my opinion till the end of Season 7
I have my own order when it comes to the first 6, I've never tried it, but it goes like this. 1, 2 (getting to know Anakin), 4, 5, (we see Luke in the future find out about his Father, and then we find that the hero Anakin is the evil villian), 3, we now find how the hero from 1 and 2 became the villian from 4 and 5) rounding out with 6 (the overall redemption).
Machete order can be done.
This.... too much "pretending", "ignoring" and basically making a whole new inconsistent narrative just to fit a couple of moments better.
I think I'll just watch the movie in release order and hate Age of Ultron forever as always.
Agreed what he says messes up way more than it fixes, and I dont think he understands the meaing of some of the endings
One major thing that makes Civil War fit so well as the end chapter of phase 2 is that I'm pretty sure it's also the last MCU film to use the version 2 Marvel Studios logo before Dr. Strange debuted the version 3 logo
The Helicarrier was explained in Agents of Shield
Jake Boos bad example, everybody should see daredevil season 3
F Agents of Shield
But noones watched that
@Jake Boos Except AoS is part of MCU and they all connect with each other. And yes, to fully understand Endgame you have to watch a ton of other stuff, including bunch of movies and a TV show.
@Jake Boos that's how they got people to see Captain Marvel though
Other then the fact Fury is hiding in a barn in Age Of Ultron because of the events in Winter Soldier...
Captain marvel actually goes after captain america the first avenger since its set in the 90s. It actially goes:
Captain America: The First Avenger (1943 - 1945)
Captain Marvel (1995)
Iron Man (2010)
Iron Man 2 (2011)
The Incredible Hulk (2011)
Thor (2011)
Avengers (2012
Except that Iron Man 3 specifically deals with Tony's post Avengers 1 PTSD. And Jarvis is in it, who is destroyed in AoU. And in AoU Tony states that he & Potts were on a break, which isn't addressed then until Civil War, so them together in IM3 inbetween that would have no explanation. And his armour version stated in IM3 is 42, but in AoU it's 46. And there's a Fury line in AoU that the helicarrier was the last one left "pulled out of mothballs", which wouldn't be the case if before Winter Soldier...
I wanna watch the Nando Order with Nando’s version of Age of Ultron from a few years back.
Also, I like the idea of Vision spending a few years in space, like Amazo from the DCAU in Justice League.
I accidentally watched Iron Man 3 after Ultron. I never realized it was supposed to be set the other way around
Yeah, I think moving Iron Man 3 after AoU just works, without any complex edits or inconsistencies.
I still like it after Avengers 1, but it probably has more impact after AoU - and it gives more breathing room between Avengers 2 and Avengers 2.5 (Civil War).
I wish the NandovMovies Version of Avengers: Age of Ultron was Canon in the MCU.
Oh! Wait the perfect solution is just sitting there! For IM3's post credits scene, just swap it out with the Hail to the King one-shot! There's no continuity issue since that could happen whenever, AND it low-key adds Justin Hammer to the movie
I'm so stoked to hear about the machete order! I've always taken a firm pro "toss Episode I directly out the window" stance!
Creates an unforeseen issue with Pepper Potts. If Iron Man 3 and Civil War are adjacent it begs the question what happened to Tony and Pepper that split them up? Tony would mention in Civil War that Ultron created tension but that makes no sense if they were happy together at the end of IM3 and IM3 is set after AoU.
4:32 correction, we DID know about that Helicarrier, it was the one from the first Avengers film, retired for the arc reactor powered ones in Winter Soldier
While I do like this video I feel like Phase 2 would also have a lot of problems with it if the Nando Order was created, we have a Thor movie where it follows the events of The Avengers, however we also had another movie that follows up after the Avengers. However the problem with this is that there are some plot holes to this, in Captain America the Winter Soldier, Nick Fury stated that Dr Banner was developing a new serum to cure Fury's Gunshot Wound, which would have been sometime after The Avengers, since Hulk was sent to outer space, or the Pacific Ocean in Avengers Age of Ultron and Age of Ultron is a Year after The Avengers it wouldn't make much since considering the fact that Winter Soldier took place 2 years after The Avengers, and Banner would have developed a new Serum between those 2 year gap, but Age of Ultron is before Winter Soldier in the Nando Order which would mean Fury dies, no life model decoys, just the Real Nick Fury. And since the kree corpse wouldn't be in Shield Custody in Agents of Shield, then Nick Fury is straight up dead.
The Last 3 Movies of Phase 2 and All 11 Movies of Marvel Phase 3 works broken, the timing for Spider-Man Far from Home is just there because we had a Movie where it was basically a Finale, only to have a sequel after that is just a Solo Adventure. it wouldn't work if Ant-Man ended Phase 2 because it doesn't seems right to have a Solo Movie after a Million Dollar Blockbuster that is Avengers Age of Ultron, I mean imagine Iron Man 2 taking place after The Avengers, and it felt odd considering the fact that it feels wrong to have a Sequel to a Previous Movie within the Phase to be after a Million Dollar Blockbuster, not to mention that Tony Stark would've already been working with Shield and Iron Man 2 was about Fury wondering if the Invincible Iron Man can be apart of the Avenger Infinitive so it wouldn't make any since to keep an eye on Tony Stark.
Marvels Phase 3 is changed a lot, The Movies are organized here: We start off with Thor Ragnarok, then Captain America Civil War, then Ant-Man and the Wasp, then Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2, then Spider-Man Homecoming, then Black Panther, then Captain Marvel, then Doctor Strange, then Spider-Man Far From Home, and finishing all offf with Avengers Infinity War and Avengers Endgame.
You Start Off with 4 Sequels to a Previous Movie from a Previous Phase, Then 4 Solo Movies, then a Sequel to a Previous Movie within the Phase, and You Finish Off with 2 Billion Dollar Blockbusters.
Thor Ragnarok Replaces the Scene of Midgurd with Yodiheim, Thor makes a remark on how he & Loki rebel their father's wishes, Odin would've been locked away in Hel with one L and we only see a cameo of Anthony Hoppkins in the form of a firery scupture when Yodiheim's cliffs is melting, Hulk being stranded in Sa'karr isn't because he was locked away in the Quinjet in the Age of Ultron we got, but rather because Tony Stark figured he would be too dangerious to sign in the Sokovia Accords so he sends him off to OUTER SPACE. This is what actually happens in Planet Hulk, both the Comic and the Movie, Only except it was with the help of the Iluminati, a Team in which Iron Man was in. This is because in the Danny Sunny Order of Age of Ultron, Hulk was kept under S.H.I.E.L.D Custody due to his actions in South Africa which is the Hulkbuster Fight Scene, we see a scene with Banner and Betty Ross who is instead played by a different actress and not Liv Taylor because if Mark Ruffalo was recasted then so does his future Red She Hulk. This would've been the only time we see Betty in the MCU Again in terms of Movies anyway in Phase 2. This leads to Hulk being with the Avengers in Assemble Seasons 2-4, then once Civil War starts, Tony sends Hulk to OUTER SPACE with a Space QuinJet. The End Credits Scene is now the Post Credits Scene and is a Mere Vision that Heimdall sees and thats about it. Captain America Civil War only has added lines and moments/scenes that references the Danny Sunny Order AoU, an example is with Tony saying something Like "No Need to Worry General, or Senator, I already handeled the Green Guy". Which pleases Thaddeus. and aside from the different Alterations and New Scenes for the most part it's the same as the Civil War we got. Ant-Man and the Wasp adds lines that references Scott Lang's Involvement in AoU, and shows a new scene that reveals Hank is having suvere Side Effects after being Mind Controlled by his own Creation AoU, and is having a Mental Breakdown and massive Brain Damage that results in PanicAttacks similar to Stark and Dr Selving Post Phase 1. The End Credits Scene is replaced with a Scene where Janet Van Dyne explains to his Husband that she is having Visions about "the possible end to their future", teasing Infinity War. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 is the same but with added lines because It is after Age of Ultron, which the Guardians were in, and not after the first GotG movie, lines like "we fought a flipping robot, how cool is that" and also the Guardians have Loki's Sceptor, which doesn't contain the Mind Stone but it still has a fraction of the Mind Stone in it, but its relativily the same movie. Spider-Man Homecoming and Black Panther are the Same as they were in the Phase 3 we got, with the exception of the End Credits Scene in Black Panther that is before the ending and there is only one credits scene that is the Post Credits Scene. But as for Captain Marvel since it takes place in 1995, the movie doesn't have a lot of changes except for it's End Credits Scene, which cuts back to Present Day MCU, where Carol Danvers meets up with the Present Day Nick Fury, and it is revealed that Fury called Danvers to find the Remaining Infinity Stones that he recieved from Thor and the Guardians, and tells the Skrull comedic sidekicks from the same movie to find the rare substince in Mexico thus teasing Spider-Man Far From Home. Doctor Strange only changes it's End Credits Scene Also, but this time its a clip from Infinity War not Thor Ragnarok. Spider-Man Far From Home changes drastically but not that much, the Most Obvious Example is that Iron Man is alive, and he plays a big part in Far From Home, he even helps Spidey near the end. The entire reason why Mysterio is the Bad Guy as well as Peter Parker's Struggles in Far From Home is because after 11 Years, Tony Stark annouces he is retiring as Iron Man, there is a joke where Tony says that he originally wanted Rhodey to become Iron Man after he retires, but then realizes that he will not give his idenity to his best friend after he stole his suit, referencing Iron Man 2 where Rhodey steals the Mark 2 Armor to build War Machine Mark 1. Tony also realizes that being Iron Man is important to him, and after Quentin Beck recklessly wanting to become the Next Iron Man, and Peter's Struggles to fill in his Shoes, his IRON, SHOES if you will. Basically Stark realises that finding the Next Iron Man is a Bad Thing so he tells Peter to become his own Spider-Man, and Karen does appear, this Far From Home is before Infinity War and not after Endgame, the End Credits Scene is Removed, Kind of, its just different, the End Credits Scene is before Spider-Man was hit by a Train, he finds out who the Skrull Imposters of Nick Fury and Maria Hill are, there was a scene that is a reference to the Spectacular Spider-Man Episode where everyone knows who Spider-Man is, and ends off with Tony Stark saying that Peter Parker is Spider-Man is actually a Hoax, and not True. Lastly, Avengers Infinity War and Avengers Endgame gets a lot of changes, but since this comment is too long, the only changes I will explain is that Captain Marvel or Carol Danvers has a bigger role in Endgame, while Ant-Man, The Avengers, the Guardians knows each other because of AoU, Doctor Strange and Spider-Man knows each other because Disney XD's Three Out of 9 Shows that are canon to the MCU, and a lot of characters from previous Media that is Canon to the MCU appear in both movies but i Don't know where to put them Oh and Um the Aspect Ratio is changed to High Defination Widescreen, as its a Full Screen just like the First Avengers Movie and Ant-Man's Aspect Raitio, and not a Screen with two Black Screens on top and under the Screen effect. And all I can say is, Endgame fits perfectly as the Finale to the Infinity Saga.
And yeah thats about it, I can't believe its so long.
Huh, Thats Actually a Nice Well Thoughout Machetti Order Style Phase you made up. Guess I'll call you the King of Scripting, its a compliment.😢 1 Like for you😢
Part of the problem with Phase 2 was the story being also played out on Agents of SHIELD. They ran a whole "It's all connected" marketing campaign and a lot of the setup for Age of Ultron was done in Agents of SHIELD. The location of the bunker they raid in the opening scene was set up in AoS as well as the random helicarrier that shows up, both were long-running storylines in AoS.
When I first saw Iron Man 3 I hoped that it took place after all of the MCU. I was really depressed when I found out it wasn't. It makes no sense chronologically. There's proof though that it's chronological because MK42-MK43 in the movies.
I recently edited alot of phase 3 movies so they flow better. I shuffled around the post credits scenes as well so they don't spoil future movies.
So phase 3 goes
Captain Marvel- I removed the post credits scene and added a GOTG 2 pay credits scene
Gaurdians of the galaxy 2- no changes
Dr. Strange- removed Thor pcs and added an antman scene.
Antman - no changes
Civil war- no changes
Black panther- no changes
Spider-Man HC- no changes
Antman and the wasp- removed snap post credits scene. Inserted the Thor pcs from Dr. Strange
Thor Ragnarok - no changes
Infinity war - this is the big one. I edited in the snap pcs scene with Nick furry, the antman and the wasp pc snap scene and the Hawkeye death scene. I think this one flows really well I know others have done this bit I overlapped some audio from the scenes so it flows better and I trimmed down some of the additional scenes for flow as well.
Endgame lastly I started the movie with the captain marvel pcs since I removed the Hawkeye scene from this movie.
That's it. I think it helps with flow and feels more cohesive. I might post them someday but for now this is my preferred way to watch phase 3.
In defense of Tony going back to the suit in AoU, the suit could be seen as an extension of the arc reactor poisoning = alcoholism from IM2. In this case, Tony thinks he's done at the end of IM3, but he relapses in AoU and it blows up in his face, as relapsing often does.
The suit is an addiction metaphor holds up decently in phases 1 and 2, so it's not too far fetched. The metaphor is gone by Phase 3, though
It's not completely gone though, just displaced. He is still massively improving his tech with the nano and then he hyperfocus with Spidey's suit, iron-spider suit and the many protocols. Then, in Infinity War, he has the nano housing that he wears just like the old arc reactor.
His addiction isn't so much the suit itself, but that it represents the act of fixing mistakes. Each designs are tailored to fix a previous issue (icing, mobility, power, convenience, electricity, melee combat, even shield to the chest) and each presentations of Iron Man to fix himself (Merchant of Death, without legacy, not recommended, small against the vastness of space, proactif instead of passif, accountable, father-figure, leader and in a way, failure).
Part of the problem with Phase 2 was the story being also played out on Agents of SHIELD. They ran a whole "It's all connected" marketing campaign and a lot of the setup for Age of Ultron was done in Agents of SHIELD. The location of the bunker they raid in the opening scene was set up in AoS as well as the random helicarrier that shows up, both were long-running storylines in AoS. The Extremis storyline from Iron Man 3 was also continued in AoS. SHIELD still existing is also, of course, integral to the show.
This way, a lot of the smaller things (like marks of suits) start to not make sense anymore, so that's a downside.
But, I do think that this is the way they should have planned it from the start. Makes much more sense.
Also, AoU isolates Banner (flees in the quinjet) and Thor (leaves to confront Surtur about his visions of Ragnarok) from everyone else for a perfect start to phase 3 with Thor Ragnarok, and helps explain why they aren't around to help Steve and Nat in Winter Soldier.
I agree with a lot of this, when I saw Age of Ultron I felt had misplaced moments.
I think having Iron Man 3 after Ultron works for another reason as well. The Mark 42 armour kind of felt like it was around merely to have the crane moment at the end, that having the controlled armour was the only way to have the misdirect moment that the villain was dead after being trapped. But if you have Ultron prior to that moment, the Mark 42 becomes the next logical step in his obsession. AI Drones were a failure and a danger, so the next step was remote controlled armour that had a person in command at all times. Then the scene where 42 attacks Pepper would send Tony more into a spiral. His next big idea is dangerous as well and the mental effect is that he panics that nothing he does will be enough and heightens his panic attacks even more. Then the ending of Iron Man 3 feels more natural that he is letting go of the illusion he can control everything and realising the only thing he can do is take care of himself and the people he cares about. So when Civil War occurs the realisation that his grasp at control could have been the cause of so much death and destruction, he over reacts in the other direction and gives up control to the UN panel.
Things like The Vision not being around can then be explained by his line "I was born yesterday" and he needed to explore his new world to make sense of his place in it. This then makes sense of reaction to Civil War, he has spent time in a world shaken by heroes and the only reality he knows is one where people are afraid. Wanda can be explained that she needed time to get over the grief of her brother and it even makes the Wanda/Vision connection make more sense if they came the the Avengers after both of them having a period of growth.
Finally having the captured Loki's Staff in Hydra hands before Winter Soldier would have been another detail that would have cemented more in Caps mind that there was something wrong in SHIELD in Winter Soldier when the cracks appear.
Agents of Shield does touch on how the helicarrier is build by Coulson. Theta protocol. And Coulson’s team found the scepter after the first avengers
Please do why hawkeye shpuld have been in winter solider instead of black widow
He should have been in winter soldier as well as black widow.
There was a scene with him in it written, but there were sceduling issues with renner, so it was cut
@@hoorahforsnakes thats not why
I can understand why the Russos picked her as a foil to Cap but Hawkeye had very little development in the MCU.
@@plushiesdx yeah the reason y is that hawkeye just leaves his family to go fight his friends with his other friends
This comes with a lot of meaning that can only really be appreciated when you're looking at the bigger picture. These implied storylines don't read to an active audience. The awkward cannon details would bother me more than some jumpy emotional narratives.
"helicarrier that we didn't know existed" it's the Helicarrier from Avengers 1.... you didn't know that existed???
That helicarrier could have very well been part of the fleet that was to become Project Insight and subsequently destroyed. If specifically the original helicarrier was specifically stored offsite in a secret location to be taken out to assist the Avengers at Sokovia, and the only setup for this was in supplementary material (which Nando did make a point about disregarding for the purpose of this video) and otherwise also ends up undercutting the sacrifice of Shield in The Winter Soldier, then it's just messy writing.
Dear Movie Studios,
Please start consulting Nando.
Thank you.
The Name 'Nando Order' just sounds like the food I'm ordering from Nando's (A UK restaurant chain)
Agents of shield clears up the shield plot hole in age of Ultron, but also forces winter solider to come before age of Ultron.
see the thing is, the force ghost of Anikin was added in years after it was released. It was added after episodes 1-3 were made, so depending on which version of episode 6 you have to watch you may or may not see the Anikin force ghost at the end of episode 6.
Your pre-Endgame nitpicks episode is still the all-time classic.
I don't think you understand the ending of Iron Man 3. He wasn't destroying the suits and getting rid of the ark reactor because he was done being Iron man, its because he has finally found a way to cope with his stress and trauma through his love in Pepper and to show her this he destroys the very suits that he obsessively built and replaced them with only suits that were absolutely necessary, and took the roles of the others suits and replaced them with mass produced Avenger Drones that are built by Jarvis and not his bare hands. Also the Helicarrier in Age of Ultron is the same Helicarrier from the first Avengers movie. You can tell this as the Helicarrier in Age of Ultron has the four large propeller engines where in Winter soldier the helicarriers that were destroyed had ark reactor powered repulsar engines instead of massive propellers. Also the Age of Ultron Helicarrier is big, blocky, and has all these angles with a command center windshield that looked like a super-sized cockpit windshield of an old world war 2 bomber, where the Winter Soldier helicarriers has very sleek, round and modern designs with a command center windshield more like a modern sports car, with no visible paneling.
I love your stuff typically Nando but you contradict yourself. "What if instead of changing the movies to fit the phase, you change the phase to fit the movies." *proceeds to talk about how you have to change a lot in most of the movies to make this order work*
I agree that these should be reordered. I think phases work for releasing the movies, but all of the movies should be reordered to fit the main story of The Infinity Saga. I created a detailed reorder on Reddit breaking the movies into chapters: www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/hrzcnm/the_pepin_rewatch_order/
Fourteen hours ago, I finished watching Age of Ultron as part of my recent rewatch of the MCU. Your timing is teeerrrrible. For what it's worth, though I *did* follow Age of Ultron with a watching of your 'Altering Ultron' video so I could kind of add that to my head canon. So it evens out?
Agents of Shield explains why there's a shield hellicarrier in Age of Ultron, it's the Theta Protocol run by Agent Coulson
I'm sure I'm not the first person to say this, but the reason the helicarrier in Age of Ultron seems to come out of nowhere is because it's a tie in to Agents of Shield (something I wish the MCU kept doing afterwards). Now that Agents of Shield is considered (mostly) non-canon, it seems weird, but if you watch AoS in sync with the movies, it gives some pay off for an arc in that show that would otherwise go nowhere
It is canon.
Honestly, this works so well I thought that’s what the order was. I completely forgot age of ultron came so late.
Phase 2 includes Agents of Shield. Omitting the show will really make the events seem wrong.
I think the helicarrier comes from Coulson in agents of shield. They did some kind of link there idk remember exactly what
Jesus Christ, your channel has gone downhill. You cannot watch aou without seeing tws, as Steve and Nat are closer friends, Steve mentions kissing Nat to Bruce, and Falcon has a pretty big roll, also mentioning the fact that he is looking for Bucky.
I like the idea of Ultron disabling SHIELD, even though you just brush past it. Imagine Ultron just throws SHIELD into complete chaos, turning all its high-grade firepower on itself and disabling all their defences. All the while the Avengers are hunting down Ultron so can't deal with the fallout, giving the world governments more of a reason to write the Sokovia Accords!
Yes, exactly! Once I wanted to do a rewatch and had to check with google to see what is the order of this phase - it meant no sense to me. Thanks for the video
Bruce's cameo at the end of Iron Man 3 always seemed off to me. Bruce has short hair and seems to be graying, then in AoU a bit later he has a massive head of hair, longer than in the original Avengers.
There is that scene in Iron Man 3 when one of Tony's suits attacks Pepper in bed during a nightmare of his. I imagine that would be even more frightening for someone who previously had to defeat of a drone army of his own design.
The problem with this theoretical order is
1 - Maybe they would've done things differently but at that time it wasn't a given that RDJ would want to keep playing Iron Man after IM3 so they had to give him a arc that felt fulfilling, which, agreed got kinda retconned in AoU, but that's more of a real world/negotiation problem rather than a script or planning problem
2 - Without AoU being after IM3 you don't get the Sakovia Accords the way they happened and therefore Civil War which is a great movie can't happen the way it does.
So like the Ancient One said don't mess with the timeline 😅
No hate, but the ending of ironman meant he was giving up his obsession that was controlling his life, NOT being a hero or saving people, he as contracted for several movies going forward and they knew that
My only problem with this order is the iron man suit numbers. In iron man 3, he is building the prototype version of the mark 43 armor and makes the mark 42. Then in age of ultron, he built the 43 armor. If it was in the new order, it’d present mark 43 and hulk buster then mark 42 and everything else. Other than that, in terms of character arcs and how the story unfolds into phase 3, I think the reordering really did elevate what phase two could’ve been with each individual characters. It presented a very smooth transition to phase 3. Great vid!