I’ve been in search and rescue since 2018. The vast majority of SAR personnel oppose charging people for rescues. The reason being that if a person knows they will be charged they will wait longer to ask for help. The risks to SAR personnel increase when it’s dark or there is inclement weather. We want people to call for help as soon as they need help. Not to wait until it’s dark and sleeting and we can’t launch a chopper and people have to hike in. It increases odds of injury or death to SAR personnel and decreases survival odds of the subject being rescued.
@@MarkJones-sk6vk We are volunteers, but we work with paid rescuers (Army, Airforce PJ's, State Troopers). Volunteers make up the bulk of rescue work in my state. The Troopers, Army and PJ's only come out for life, limb or eyesight basically. Volunteers do the rest of it, and most body recoveries outside the city.
You make a valid point, yet I would submit that if hikers/ backpackers/ trail runners were held accountable for their decisions you would likely see fewer calls for service. I would suggest that those going into the wilderness areas provide a cash deposit, refundable upon leaving the area. No accountability is a large part of the problem.
I was going to say the same thing. SAR member since 2012, and I've seen lots of stupid things that did not turn out to be body recoveries only because the subjects called for help in time. Fear of getting charged for rescue will only lead to delays and unnecessary deaths. I don't know what the best solution is, but I cannot endorse charging for rescue. And, to the question asked by Mark, I'm on a strictly volunteer team.
In New Hampshire if u are not prepared u get fined $1,500 if u are prepared and it's a accident u don't get fined. Also in New Hampshire it's smart to get a Hike Safe Card that helps support the numerous Mountain Rescue groups in the state which many are volunteers
.. The Hike Safe Card is a good concept , only thing is it's a volunteer program ...... Maybe there should be a required Trail Use License ,, just like having a fishing license ,, low cost but at the volume of people on trails it could fund the SAR and Emergency Services enough to operate without debt. .. Even a percentage for trail maintenance costs ..
@@rockytopwrangler2069 A lot of people would hike without paying for a card. It's impossible to check everyone that hikes if they have a card. That is why it's a voluntary thing.
The card is great in theory, but my understanding is that there's a provision that they can/will charge you if you're negligent. Legally, negligence is a failure to behave with the level of care that a reasonable person would exercise, but what's a reasonable person when the majority of people going for a hike aren't serious hikers? Personally, I think microspikes are for walking around town, not a real hike, but does a reasonable person think you can go on a winter hike and cross an icy sloe with just microspikes? I also have a perception that NH's opinion of how prepared you are is influenced by whether or not you're from out of state. I don't remember the details, but I know of an incident where somebody was billed for a rescue based on the states contention that it was somehow related to a previous injury. I've got an old ankle injury that's become more limiting as I've gotten older, but would they have billed me if I sprained that ankle when I was in my mid 30's and could carry a 70 pound pack up to Tuckerman Ravine in under 90 minutes? I think there's also a problem with proportionality. On one hand, it's not expensive for most people, but it costs a good bit more than the share of hunting and fishing license fees that go to search and rescue. A senior NH resident can get a combination hunting and fishing license for about half the cost of the Hike Safe card. There is no senior option for non-residents. A non-senior resident can get a hunting license for about $10 more than the card. I don't know if all hunting and fishing licenses protect you from being billed for a rescue, but there are a few licenses that are as cheap as $11 even for non-residents. If that gets you the protection the card is just way to make a donation to SAR without the possibility of a tax deduction. And finally, what we need in the US is a readily available low cost rescue card that isn't limited to a single state, as is common in Europe. Not all US states even have an option, but for the ones that do should we spend $150 if we do at least one hike in each of 6 states in a given year? FWIW, NH has also made a few attempts to require licensing of canoes and kayaks in the past. Want to use a fishing kayak and a recreational kayak on a week's vacation in NH? That will be $20 for the two kayaks, please. Family of 4 with one-person kayaks? $40. Fortunately they seem to have abandoned that idea.
@@rockytopwrangler2069 The NH SAR team is also mostly all volunteers except for the Fish and Game officers who coordinate rescues. Our Search and Rescue is top notch because everyone who is doing it is doing it for the right reasons, and are usually extremely experienced people who could climb these mountains blindfolded. The Hike Safe Card also protects you from fines and the cost of rescue unless you do something really stupid. Almost everyone has one.
"A Hiker wore Crocs Up a Mountain in Winter and Sparked A Rescue Mission"..... ............. ouch.... that just makes my head hurt..... it gives me a brain cramp.
@@SageBlackthorn Same, thought I misheard that, had to replay it twice but I still almost couldn't believe it!😂 I mean sure, I can understand *bringing* crocs to wear around camp.. But *wearing* them while ascending!? 🤦 Some people really ought to have some sense literally knocked into them! 🙌
Merry Christmas! I literally just broke my ankle in 2 places while on a backpacking trip 2 days ago. I was solo and crossing a creek. I got across just fine, it was the second creek crossing and the first went just fine, but when I went to take a step up to get out of the water somehow I slipped and fell breaking my right ankle. I was able to bandage and somewhat stableize the ankle and get myself out of the forest and call for help. I did have to leave my pack behind but a ranger did get it for me without me even asking. The EMTs were very happy to not have to go into the woods to get me and that I already had myself bandaged up and when we got to the ER they were telling others about how I self rescued. I was fortunate that I was able to do it and I’m not sure how I managed except that I did do my best to be prepared and that the Lord was with me.
@@debicraddock5603 thank you. It was one of the scariest things I have ever been through. I was wet, cold, in a lot of pain and all alone. I typically love being out alone but this was obviously different. I see the orthopedics surgeon tomorrow and am hoping to not have surgery like they were saying in the ER. Either way, whatever happens I will eventually be fine, it will just take time.
I was once walking on a side road and came to a ford. There was a footpath to one side, but as the water was less than an inch deep I walked across. Big mistake... It was covered with what looked like bis beach pebbles. I didn't know that these were incredibly slippery. Zero friction. Apparently, rocks under water often get covered by algae. Very slippy. Same with rocks above water which rarely dry out. A shady footpath in my own garden gave me a nasty fall a couple of years ago. I always take two trekking poles whenever I go rough walking or suspect ice.
I also loved being solo in the back country. It does substantially raise the risk level. Some of those risks can be mitigated but not all of them. Making certain someone reliable knows where you are going and precisely when you plan to return may be the single most important thing one can do.
I am not a gear junkie. I am old school, adaptable, not well funded. I am not a fan of content creators that feature "new" kinds of gear, but this video was so well done that I made an exception. I am now a new subsciber to this channel. Well done in so many ways.
Thank you very much for this video. I was up on this trail this thanksgiving literally days before this chain of accidents took place. The trail was quite treacherous and the snow was definitely not firm after a couple hours of sunshine. I turned back before the summit knowing that it’s not impossible that I will need rescue if I continued, and looking at these folks I must consider myself lucky.
The way this works here in Slovakia is that you are encouraged to buy insurance before venturing into mountains, and in case you need to be rescued, insurance company is paying for it. You are also free to not buy an insurance, but in that case, if you need it, you are paying for the rescue.
That is the best idea. We do have that for car rentals and probably other things that I'm unaware of but it should be mandatory for hikers or like in Slovakia no insurance ? You pay for a rescue. The US does wave rescue cost if the person was prepared for the conditions and has an accident and has to be rescued. Not sure if that is true of every state but it is in mine.
@@djg5950 I pay for the extra 'extraction insurance' that you can add onto Spot locator emergency beacon. It's $39 per year. If you have to be rescued and get charged, they will cover the cost. If you are going to go play in the back country, a geolocator is a great idea and so is rescue insurance.
Here in the uk we have volunteers operating in various areas England , Scotland and Wales these are essentially charitable entities. They're run by skilled mountaineers and climbers backed up by Air Sea rescue and Paramedics. They operate an astounding service for those in need. Ogwen MRT appears to have had many call outs this year mainly on Tryfan a knife edge ridge of a mountain in Snowdonia Wales.
Wentbto norway once, found out Scadanavia had cell phones since the 80's for this reason. They said it was because their government cared about them. Anything life threatening involving heart or brain incident gets free heli there. US has many gine helicopter rescue insurance programs people can buy into. Definitely recommend if you adventure or have medical issues. It can cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Thank you for passing along. Too many of these stories end tragically because the individuals were untrained, ill-prepared and “just going on a day hike”.
.. As mentioned , most of the injuries here were foot or traction related ... over the past 20 years poor hiking footwear has been promoted and lack of needed traction devices and support staff or trekking poles used when needed .. AS with any sport or activity there needs to be skills and preparation ... Mother Nature will present herself .. The arrogant risk takers will be slapped down ..
Having been on a SAR team for eleven years in MI, I appreciate you putting this information out. Also, FYI, my team was a volunteer organization as part of the emergency services department of the local PD.
One of my favorite sayings is this "Better a live Donkey than a dead Lion." Ernest Shackleton. During a hike I was on the weather started to shift and that saying popped into my head as I debated whether to push on or not. Turned around found a good spot and setup camp. Then the storm hit.
.. "Accidents" can be avoided .. With needed skills ,, with attention used and proper gear .. ... all should be charged but even the stupid should not be fined beyond the cost charge ..
Who decides what is considered an accident, and what is carelessness? Most non outdoors people believe just going in the wilderness is careless. Most people who are outdoors minded people think winter camping is careless. Maybe the hospital should be the ones to decide. They would never manipulate a system to turn a profit. What if they can't afford the medical visit? Should they need to pay a premium on health insurance, or should insurance be allowed to deny coverage due to the diagnosis of carelessness? There are enough laws, fees, rules, and regulations on the books as is, can't we leave the woods out of it?
It’s so hard to define careless in some instances. Would I be considered “careless” as an over 60 solo female backpacker, something I OFTEN do? I have many friends and coworkers who think so, but they don’t even car camp or walk in the woods.
I worked as a park ranger for a few years and the number of times I saw people in crocs, no backpacks, and 1 bottled water (like a Dasani, not a Nalgene) on a 95 degree day was astounding. One day we had to actually turn people away if they couldn't show me they had enough water because it was so hot that day. I think because society is so used to a comfortable lifestyle we're out of tune with nature and how brutal it can be. They see videos on social media and think "oh, we can do that, let's just go" without doing research. I will also say, signage only works maybe 25% of the time (and that's being generous). People who will read the signs are the ones that would actually be prepared. Even when I was stationed at a trail head I had lots of resistance and frustration directed at me when I tried to educate, so I'm not quite sure what the answer is. Perhaps if there is proof that sufficient notice has been given then the cost of rescue should absolutely fall on the hiker. It's a tough question because on one hand, where's the accountability? On the other hand, accidents DO happen. Maybe in off season or extreme-temperature days visitors need to sign some kind of waiver saying they understand the risks. I guess that would mean the park would have to have funding to station someone though. Thanks for the video and letting me ramble about this topic which has been an issue for years.
I stick to mostly day hikes out with my two dogs, but if I'm going to be in more wilderness areas I always make sure to carry a first aid kit, more than enough water for all three of us, extra protein bars and other basic survival gear just in case. In the SE US, in the middle of summer, I'm always amazed at the number of people that don't have water with them (I mtb in all seasons, hike only in winter with the dogs) or even that I've had to point towards the trail head.
These “News Stories” are extremely valuable - especially if you include a good bit of the details. It gives us an opportunity critique what someone did right as well as what they did wrong. Approached with a desire to learn, and improve, much can be gleaned from mistakes and successes. Keep them coming Luke. They can provide a great benefit to the outdoor community!
This is the reason why I follow you on UA-cam. You have been a God send with gear and information. Your still my go to guy for reviews and now info. KEEP’em coming when you can. They need to be informed SEMPER FI
People should be responsible for themselves- their food, clothing, housing, healthcare AND potential rescues. There can be something like rescue insurance and it wouldn’t be expensive. Anyone without it should be subject to paying the cost of their own rescue
I totally agree with you Luke, since I was a member of the search and rescue team in the Shawnee National Forest area and we had to carry out everyone of those we had to rescue, because they would get to close to the edge of the bluffs and fall off not thinking how slippery the moss on the bluff can be, and we would repell down the bluff and have a stretcher lowered down and there was a minimum of 8 personnel it was always 6 rescuers and 2 EMT'S, because once we found them the trek out was a long walk out, because we couldn't pull them up the bluff so we walked them out on a stretcher and the other 2 rescuers would led the way keeping the path clear and looking out for rattlesnakes especially during the spring, summer and fall season. We didn't mind going out and doing what we did, but someone does need to be responsible for part of the cost of personnel and equipment.
@@dwaynebeavers2088thank you for all you do. I posted a couple weeks ago about breaking my ankle on a hike and being able to get myself out. I was hiking in Giant City State Park which is part of the Shawnee National Forest. My Nurse anesthetist, I had to have surgery, was telling me how she fell down a cliff there and had to be rescued and she also broke an ankle. I was fortunate enough to have what I needed supply and skill wise to very painfully get myself out and then call for help. I really didn’t want anyone having to come in and get me if I could avoid it. I am so thankful that you and others are willing and able to be there for those who need you. I had the absolute best EMTs ans hospital staff ever.
I live near there and have a friend on LVMPD S & R. He was telling me about all of those rescues. The ones that weren't prepared, I just rolled my eyes.
I live up in the New York Adirondack mountains and I find people hiking the peaks totally unprepared. Most of the time underdressed and under equipped. I believe that those people should pay for their rescue.
I am local and climb there almost every weekend. It gets to zero degrees in the winter and below with the wind chill. Mt Charleston takes real mountaineering experience in the winter plus the proper gear. Micro spikes are not proper traction devices for ice covered mountainsides that easily go above 30 degrees in places. The flat trail quickly becomes a sloped hillside as the snow and ice builds up. These trails need crampons, ice ax and a helmet to navigate. If you know how to use these and have the proper clothing you skip the trails and go right up the side of the mountain. It’s so much fun and majestic in the winter in MT Charleston.
Great video - thank you for doing these. Years ago I was backpacking out West, got over a ridge into high country, and realized that I didn't have a) the proper gear and b) the proper skills. I spent one night in the high country, and then turned around and headed back to lower/safer trails. I didn't want to put anyone at risk, including me and the SAR teams out there. It's important to be prepared with the proper gear, to have the appropriate skill set for that particular adventure, and be confident to call your own number when you're in over your head. I had a great trip and I made it home safe and sound.
God point. People need to know their limits, would eliminate a lot of s.a.r., not referring to a real accident. Certain people watch videos of experianced hikers and think they can do it. I have watched videos and see them do stupid things time and time again.
As a Las Vegas resident, I've repeatedly hiked this trail. I would never hike it during the winter, as the weather in the Spring Mountains can be very unstable. These people must be unprepared day hikers, and imho, don't belong on that trail during the winter.
I used to hike a LOT near Atlanta - everything from the Byron Reese trail to the stone hut on the AT in North GA to state parks all over the northern half of the state. I had to help people at Sweetwater Creek State park more than once, and one that comes to mind is the White trail, which is a 5 mile loop. That's right, keep going forward, you end up back at the parking lot. Turn around and go back? You end up at the parking lot. Well marked, easy-to-see, two hour trail. I ran into people with 'walk around the house' flip-flops, no water on a 98 degree day in GEORGIA, and they were panicking because they thought they were lost, on a tiny little 5 mile loop.
I've seen plenty of flip-floppers also .. even trail runners wearing bikini's on 11k mtn trails ... reminded me of the old Budweiser commercials ... with the Swedish bikini team dropping out of a Helicopter ..
I've hiked to the top of Half Dome in Yosemite N.P. 4 times, 3 of those hikes were before a permit was required ( Though I don't know if requiring a permit makes people more prepared or not ) From the Yosemite valley floor it's 8.1 miles each way, with a 4,700' elevation gain. On Half Dome there are steel cable handrails to help people get up the very steep and slick granite. I've seen several people wear improper footwear, and on the granite they had difficulty. The worst was "the guy" On two of my trips I saw not the same person, but two guys that dressed and prepared the same. Basketball shorts, t-shirt, flip flops and a 12oz. bottle of water. Both times I passed "the guy" as I was on my way back down, he was heading up, far too late in the day,, laying on a rock and groaning with pain and exhaustion. I assume that at some point they gave up, turned around and got back to the valley well after dark.
Places like that with cables and/or giant staples as steps are death waiting to happen ,, and a few do every year .... The forest services need to remove all these eyesores ,, destruction of natural landmarks and landscapes ..
You hit the nail on the head. Too many people nowadays have no critical thinking skill or "common sense". Luckily, back in the day when I was working parks, we didn't have as many incidents. The dangers were always there, but usually drinking or too busy having fun and not thinking we're the culprits and not as many novices would get into the back country. I can remember one Ranger talking about overhearing a conversation between a urbanite father talking with his young child. Plenty of signage to keep clear and not feed or take pictures close to the wildlife. Child informs dad to stay back and need the warning signs. Father says there is no way the federal government would have dangerous animals in the parks because they would be sued. Another was a woman that was hiking up to a local mountain top and the weather turned bad. This was in the early days of cell phones, but she was able to get search and rescue. The chopper located and extracted her, but at some point she was able to see how close she was to the top and asked to be put back to complete the hike. She was told no, that they were there for a rescue and that's not proper protocol. She demanded to be put back or she would sue...needless to say she didn't get her way. I've noticed we seem to have more of these types over the years and technology has been a double-edged sword, bringing more people to remote areas. Please get the proper training and gear and do your research before you go "out there"; things still happen, but you minimize the dangers when follow the six P's (you could add a seventh, but I cleaned it up), prior proper preparation prevents poor performance. There are more, but I'm sure you get the drift. Be safe and may the peace of Jesus Christ be with you and your families and have a Merry Christmas.
I always go on trips alone with my dog, and I will ALWAYS prepare for the worst scenario. I take preparation seriously. I go on a few day hikes a year with other people, and it is amazing how unprepared some people are in a case where an accident is very possible. People make fun of me about me being paranoid, etc when they see what I take with me even on a dayhike. If I am going anywhere where there is a remote chance of me being stuck, I will at the very least have an emergency shelter of some sort, multiple ways to make fire, and contain, purify/filter water. Variables are something I will always think about, and my life, as well as my dog's life is highly valuable to me. I think it is idiotic to not take in consideration the worst case scenario when going out into nature. I see so many people putting their lives, friend's lives, and pet's lives at risk when they go out into the woods, and it aggravates me.
Same. Even on a day hike my back pack has close to 5 lbs of emergency stuff in it. People would rib me about it a ittle until one day someone had and incident and guess who was the only one prepared to handle it? Emergency equipment fix? Yep. Surprise rain storm? Right here. The good thing about it is that after that incident some people started carrying at least an emergeny 1st aid kit and multitool in their packs.
@Lauren-vd4qe Wisdom. That's why I personally don't do it unless it's a popular route I know other hikers will be on that day, and even then not that often. That, and texting a friend your route's details and check ins at the least at the start and finish. There are a lot of UA-cam videos with solo hikers but very few who include thier safety precautions.
i take an emergency bivvy and firestarter with me even on a short loop, in case i somehow manage to get injured out of the way and need to wait some time to be rescued. even on "in town" hikes where the woods aren't that deep, having an extra 10oz of stuff in my pockets is a small amount of effort that could have a huge payoff
Mt Baldy in So Cal has so many rescues needed and lost hikers every winter. People go up ill prepared because it's "not far from LA, how bad can it be"...
Same thing with the Santa Ynez Mountains north of Santa Barbara, except in the summer. People have no idea how hot it gets up there, and there's no water available. Plus it's a cell phone dead zone. It presents you with the bracing possibility of getting ledged out and dying of dehydration, while still being able to see the city and the ocean shore in the distance.
Every year, I do the same snow hike. It's an icy set of switchbacks along a strip drop, then a wayfinding through thick snow to an alpine lake with avalanche danger on the far side. Every year, I see people ill prepared in tennis shoes and no packs heading up from the parking lot. The signage is clear. It amazes me that people always forget that the mountains in the winter are very dangerous
I live in Mexico, this is a problem here too, people is sometimes very irresponsible while visiting some of our mountains, they just don't take things serously, and rescue teams have to work for that. I like to hike alone sometimes, but i do take my precautions and try to be as safe as i can, never had a problem or got lost.
We have this discussion all the time here in BC, volunteer SAR teams spend a lot of time and effort rescuing people who go off trail or who just unprepared. Wheeled off road travelers are equally showing up unprepared. I ran into a young who had blown the diff on thier jeep, both wearing t-shirt, shorts and flip flops with nothing else to put on. They were just out for the day was their reasoning. Where they were was a rough rocky forest service road, About 4 km (2.5 - 3 miles) from the main, and fairly steep up and downs. There is no cell phone service and they literally had no clue where exactly they were other than off the West Harrison Lake FSR. It was late it the day when I found them, purely by accident I was looking for a bypass route around a failed bridge. It was cooling off and they had been there for a couple hours hoping someone would come along, on a tiny off the side of the side road track. No food no water. Just nuts.
I’ve dutifully left detailed commentary on helping my fellow travelers up their preparation and by consequence their safety. I’ve penned hundreds of articles, comments and show scripts. It’s mind boggling the number of grown adults who conflate “being a hater” with being an adult
Interesting discussion. In the pyrenees and alps they have implemented huge fines if you need to be rescued with helicopter etc. Especially Spain & Italy are sick and tired of unprepared "hikers" that end up missing/lost. We are talking about thousands of euros in fines. I myself have run into "lost hikers" in the pyrenees screaming for help - while I had the time of my life. Having the right equipment I had to waste half a day leading the group to the nearest village where they could get help with their frostbites, hypothermia, dehydration, cuts and bruises. I might sound harsh - but people need to stop thinking that going into remote mountainous areas are like a trip to disney world. Nature is unforgiving and will snuff you out in a second if you are not prepared .
I am in the northeast of Scotland, and the number of people we have going into the cairngorms from the south with no proper gear is frustrating. The mountain rescue teams put themselves at risk to get them off the mountains, and here they are volunteers
hey Luke, i really like these news episodes. you always talk about the dangers but most people this a danger survived was no danger at all. i think if people see what can happen then it hits home.
Very informative video. I've been solo backpacking since I was 17 (now 68) and never had an issue because I was properly trained in Boy Scouts to be prepared. I was fortunate to have been in a scout troop that was heavily involved in backpacking and even took some survival training. I always tell someone reliable what my itinerary is so they know who to contact if I don't check in. Proper gear is essential. I've had to abort trips because of severe weather changes or because I was feeling ill. Don't let your pride over rule common sense since it could save your life. Search and rescue teams are awesome. Where I live in southern California they are always rescuing people and 90% of the time it is because they are ill prepared. I believe that if someone is irresponsible then they should pay the costs of being rescued.
First, Merry Christmas to you and yours! Second, I'm a veteran SAR volunteer, worked Haywood and Buncombe counties, back in the 70's, most of us as initial responders were, and some still are volunteers. Personally, accidents happen, and I don't mind helping those folks. But the amount of what I will only label as "stupid human tricks" seem to be happening more and more. And I'm of the opinion the only sign that should be posted at trailheads everywhere, If you are not properly prepared for this trail, you will be required to pay reimbursement for any and all expenses to drag your stupid body out. Now enjoy your adventure!"😊
And a heartfelt thank you! For not just the testing that you do, but for these reports you put out as well. I must admit that I am living vicariously through your adventures as I just can't go and do any more.
It’s so cheap to get a small backpack together with some basic supplies. Hiking first aid kit, survival blanket, pocket knife, some protein bars, bottle of water, some rope, I even put extra gloves in, some fire starter (bic lighter or similar), hot hands…all of these things are small, lightweight and can make a huge difference in your survivability. But your best chance at not just survival but enjoying your trip is as this guy says: prepare and evaluate. If you’ve never hiked before don’t start by trying to climb Everest.
Thanks for sharing. I live in Las Vegas, and the number of times that I see people that are not equipped or ready to go on hikes out here I cannot count. I know that I overprepare by the views of some, but I would rather have it and not need it compared to the other way around. I grew up with the 10 essentials as a framework, and I stick to it. From experience I have learned to carry extra water when it is hot, and to carry extra ski caps when it is cold. I felt horrible for these French girls that were visiting once without being prepared. I happened to have a spare set of gloves that I was able to give them, and I made sure they got back to their car. I think people don't take hiking in the Las Vegas area seriously, however, I have seen the same recklessness in Yosemite and Zion. I think people assume that if they are on a trail, that it is safe, and that equipment is not necessary. In our current culture it may not be a bad idea to have trails have ratings of difficulty and danger at the trail heads. Of course, as I used to stress to people when going out bouldering or climbing, you can break your ankle from falling a foot if you land wrong.
.. Most well known trails DO have a printed rating system ,, but the occasional tourist or friend of a friend will never look it up ,, and many don't even take the time to read the constructed information signs .. ... Rock climbing and such is a skill that should be geared properly towards ...
@@rockytopwrangler2069 Like you said, most well know trails do have a printed rating system. Red Rock Canyon is very hit and miss in this regard. If you pick up the map from the rangers, it rates all of the trails. That being said, the trail heads as I stated before are very hit and miss.
@@gregbradshaw3410 ... It's up to the hiker/ climber etc. to do their own homework and know the rules and regulations of any area intended to travel and recreate ,, not the forest service or state/county land management to provide each and every person a handbook .... Just as a hunter or fisherman is required to know of seasons, dates and game allowed to harvest .. all information is available for anyone preparing for the use of trails/camps and necessary regs. such as a fire ban ... or bridges out .. That's just part of being prepared ..
Great video Luke! Keep up the good work. Right now, I'm on a mountain right next to mt. Charleston. At Ease! Im well equipped, prepared, and I'm not greenhorn!
Sept, 2021 I was at Lower Boy Scout Lake (10,350 ft). Next day , hike up to Upper Boy Scout Lake (11,350). Got a weather report (Garmin In Reach), snow possible at that elevation. Getting there the path is a lot of slab granite. If I needed to abort, I did not want to be walking downhill on granite with frozen water or snow. I went back to my car. I was 77 then .
As a 10-year SAR volunteer and a medical professional, there are many facets to both how our subjects get into the situation and how SAR resources are utilized. There are some states that will bill the rescued party per man-hour if they parties were found negligent. I'm glad all of these cases did not result in a loss of life, but people do need to bear some responsibility
A few months ago I read 'Deep Survival' by L Gonzales. Facinating book, but one account jogged my mind when I watched this clip- the author, with his girlfriend went on a short day hike (Utah? I think?) Scheduled to be an hour walk, then back to the resort hotel. The weather changed rapidly, they got disoriented and started shivering. It ended well ( he finished and published the book obviously!) but he spanked himself for making wrong decicions that he KNEW better to make...but in the moment, he had an incident of (his words) stupidity. Great post...and even veteran outdoor people can hava a stupid day.
Everything Luke is saying is accurate...and it all goes back to this: failure to properly plan on your part doesn't justify an emergency on someone else's. We all know accidents will happen...but if you have the training and experience you can minimize the damage. If you don't, you shouldn't take the risk.
Great episode. Perhaps the signage at the beginning of these trails could have a warning that gives a list of specific gear recommended for that trail. The sign could give fair warning that if you have to be rescued and you did not have the proper gear that you will have to pay the cost for the rescue. Thanks for the video!
I believe over the years of hiking I've witnessed a gradual lack of training on hikes, less scouting less learning and an increase in people who take to trails with the thought that if something goes wrong I'll just call 911, it's really annoying to people who prepare and spend hours and weeks preparing, ive seen this issue more and more, for the continued love🥾🥾🥾
.. Maybe from the UA-cam Ultralight hikers making things look easy .. I have seen more of the careless , unskilled ,unprepared over the past 15-20 years ... since cell phone/internet era ..
@internetrules8522 you arrive at a shelter after a cold front moved in the area "you" hiked thru snow cold rain then snow between times your shell froze, but you prepared you will be ok just exhausted, you see the shelter and get a rush of good feelings...you walk up to the front of the shelter to find 2 individuals in the depths hypothermia, you, do the best you can put your extra cloths on one put the other in your sleeping bag try to get a fire started boil water call 911..case one both pass away, case 2 trail runners and helicopter arrive to save one, Noth cases happen in in 2024, the hiker who was prepared is changed for life, some think maybe for the better some think no more, it could be described as more than annoying, but if by using the word annoying gets one more person to prepare better then yes its annoying, for the love🥾🥾
In Europe to hike the TMB, I had to show proof I had air rescue insurance and that I had medical insurance accepted in Europe. Just yesterday there as an air rescue from the mtns where I live. Have not heard why the rescue was required yet. Boy scout motto BE PREPARED, learned at 13to, um now 73yo I still hiking and exploring
Merry Christmas to you, Luke. And to all the YT viewers. May the coming year find you on the trail, safely that is. I suppose it all boils down to the old saying, which is, "A person MUST know their limitations. "
A friend of mine had to be rescued while floating down the river and they billed him for it. He was completely unprepared and had never floated a river before. I feel bad because I do it all the time with my kids and post pictures, so he brought his daughter!
And there's a major reason for many of the problems we're seeing now. People see posts of amazing things or places on social media and decide they want to do that or go there. Most f those posts are all about how nice it is, how much fun it is, how pretty it is, and rarely anything about how to do it.
@OccamsToaster That's exactly why I felt bad. I felt responsible for inspiring him to go do it, even though that wasn't my intention. It made me think about how I should talk about safety if I'm going to share experiences like that.
@@ShinyNickelBlades If you didn't know he was planning to do it there's no reason at all to feel bad about what happened. It's a great idea to mention safety or that people need to learn how to do stuff, but on most platforms it's really easy for people to look at the pretty pictures, and ignore other stuff except perhaps to find out where something is.
WTH? I literally live down the mountain, and I haven't heard of any of these rescues! Usually these things are on the news. I guess I've missed them. On another note, I see people all the time out here not prepared for anything in the outdoors. So many people out here are blissfully ignorant of the dangers.
People always ask me, "why do you carry so much?" And the answer is, "because so many people carry nothing" and I can try to help if needed. I don't think I carry much, but it's definitely more than the average day hiker.
Luke, great point about rescue and the price involved. I ll bring your attention to your adventue when you were on Wolf Mountsin and received NWS warnings about high wind, flooding, and pending tornatos, told to leave immediately and seek indoor shelter. Yet you refused to leave, called susie to say you love her, and stated you at least would die doing what you love. You at the.least are a hypocrite when you say you would never put yourself in danger. If a hiker gets a NWS WARNING to leave, do it IMMEDIATELY. You could have been injured and needed to be rescued. Who pays? The tax payer. Preach do as I say, not as I do????
I've have seen it here in the PNW. People out for day hike ill prepared. I see things like them wearing sneakers in shorts and tank tops and carrying a plastic shopping bag for there drinks and snacks. Some them going without water or back packs, nothing! Some of these hikes are some 3.5 hour to 4 hour hikes up to 5500 feet in elevation. There usually in groups of 3-5. Most go some what prepared but you can tell they only have snacks and water. I have seen people in flip flops on these trails too. Trails are crowded and to many are really unprepared.
Hell, even going hiking at the Peaks of Otter I have stuff to hold me over at least a day in case something happens. I have come down the trail and pass people heading up wearing t-shirt, shorts, running shoes and only having a water bottle. They aren't even able to put a band aid on a scratch should they trip. Yes, chances are nothing is going to happen, but the one time it does....
I worked with the Forest Service for almost 16 years patrolling the AT , the Lincoln Woods Wilderness Area and several other popular climbing & hiking areas in NH I've defiantly seen more unprepared people venturing out than I can count , not only gear wise , but experience wise. I was a SOLO Wilderness First Responder , High Angle Rescue certified and rescues / recoveries weren't all that an uncommon and a big part of my duties , Winter or Summer. We'd probably have 20ish extractions , several search & rescues, and sadly 8-10 recoveries a Summer and more minor injury responses were a daily occurrence in some of the more well used areas, normally used by the more inexperienced visitors . Sprains , strains, bigger boo-boo's , blisters , dehydration , heat stroke /exhaustion, ect . The usual stuff. So plan according to when & where your going, be in shape to do so and have the right gear and learn the woods well before venturing to far. All the best from the High Mountain Homestead and have a Blessed Christmas and New Year,,,,,
Great episode as usual Luke. You’re exactly right, people should be prepared when in the backcountry! Merry Christmas to you and your family Brother! 🎄❤️🤘😎
Luke, I listen to a particular Grand Canyon hiking podcast and the number of people who get "sucked into the canyon" with no prep and no supplies is absolutely astounding. I think they think it's like going to the mall. You know we can just wear our crocs and we don't need any water or a map or anything and if something goes wrong, the authorities will just come to our rescue. This is the mentality. And every year a few people find out the hard way what happens when you are not prepared. I highly recommend the book "Over the Edge: Death in Grand Canyon" - a book on how-not-to-die in the back country.
... That's right ,, the GC Guide services come down the trail every 15 minutes with a cart pulled by a donkey , with water ,food and a chair with a mounted umbrella .... easy-peasy ..
As a resident of Vegas for the past 40+ years and a hiker in the Spring Mountains for just as long, the people who hike here lately seem to be doing it for the Gram and for the FB "likes". I chased a few of them out of a 4000 year old Bristlecone Pine tree this past season. Totally disrespectful of nature, playing music loudly on the trail, etc.. I can't climb high enough to get away from them. Unfortunately, the South Loop Trail will teach them lessons the hard way, It's tough and steep. Crocs...I am not surprised.
I can’t count how many out of staters I found on the back roads in Northern Maine in cars stuck in the mud up to the rocker panels. Many many miles from cell reception. Yep, I pulled them out and shed some advice.
Merry Christmas and happy new year Luke and Susie!!!👍🏿💯❤️🎊🎊🎉🎉. Thank you so much for sharing this story with us!!! Strength and honor my friend be well!!!👍🏿👍🏿💯💯🎊🎊🎉🎉
That number is now 10. I was just there three days ago and on my way back down I met a couple that had just assisted a group of teenagers after one slipped down the switchbacks and injured their ankle. I heard the police helicopter working for a while, before meeting the couple. The couple said that the teenagers had no gear and had walked past the signage stating they would need crampons, poles or an axe. The sun had baked the switchbacks and melted a bunch of ice, once the sun went back behind the ridge everything froze turning the hillside into Elsa’s snow castle. It took me a long time to get to the bottom of the trail with Crampons and an ice axe.
Luke, thank you so much for taking the time to put these episodes out. I can’t believe the stupidity of some of these people., wearing crocks while hiking.
I have been watching another channel,Kyle Hates Hiking who covers stories of hikers and trail mysteries very thoroughly. I was unaware you had ventured into a similar area too.
The state of Oregon has a law allowing lost or injured hikers to be charged the cost of the rescue. This is rarely if ever used though as the responsibe rescue organizations don't want people choosing not to call for help over the fear of the cost.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you Luke and your family. Thank you for the excellent news and reviews you have given over the years. I found this very interesting since I used to live in Las Vegas (1980-1992) and have hiked Mount Charleston several times, including once in the winter. It can be dangerous up there, regardless of the season. But in the winter, it can be exceptionally dangerous.
As a avid hiker/peakbagger for my entire adult life(45+ years) you wouldn't believe the things I've seen on trail. Actually seen the Crocs/sandals in winter conditions numerous times myself. Seen a young man on Humphreys Peak in deep snow on Memorial Day in a pair of pool flip flops. Several years ago on Mt. Wrightson...an elderly man froze to death. He had on shorts and a grey hoodie. I had full winter survival gear and didn't leave the trailhead and advised him to do so as well...came back two days later to find out he was missing and presumed dead. And this might cause some comments but trail runners that go out with minimal to no gear are setting themselves up for disaster. I'm amazed that more people don't die frankly. I truly believe permits and a ranger presence at trailheads to turn back ill prepared hikers is a must. Just my opinion.
@@katherinecollins9636 .. Maybe there , but very few are even near trailheads across the country ... and most hikers don't even know where the nearest one is if needed ...
Permits? No thanks, that’s absurd. These are adults with agency over their lives. Maybe a sign would be good but I shouldn’t have to pay a permitting fee to the government because some idiots get themselves killed
Although I understand the idea of stopping people at trailheads that do not have proper gear, it would be a huge tax payer burden to pay for rangers at all trailheads across the US. On top of that, having the proper gear doesn't mean knowing how to use said gear. Is the ranger responsible for the death of someone that had the proper gear but failed to use it properly? What if the person had heatstroke in the winter because that happens if they don't drink enough water and are sweating underneath all that extra clothing? The government can't police everything and shouldn't be doing more than it is. Some people will unfortunately lose their life because of their stupidity or ignorance on the trail just like some people will lose their life because of their stupidity and ignorance driving down the road. We don't need more big government to intervene and the risk to rescuers is their burden for choosing that career path or volunteering. They know the risk and we thank them for taking that risk. That's all that is needed.
Maybe you should stop and think about those trail runners for a minute. The vast majority of the time going out for an 8 mile run or hike nearly naked and with a granola bar and pint of water works out just fine. While most rescues may involve people who are inexperienced and/or unprepared most of the time it's something else that starts the problem. As for posting rangers at trailheads to violate our 4th amendment rights, I'll be happy to let you pay their salaries.
None of the incidents with the unprepared are surprising. I've come across the clueless and unprepared plenty of times in the Colorado mountains. I've even stopped and talked to those heading into potentially dangerous situations and most don't listen. There is no excuse for it with all the resources available such as your channel that basically spell out the basics. Thanks for the great videos and this type of content that hopefully can get at least a few people to think and get prepared.
Luke, Great information. I am glad that you are doing outdoor news videos. A couple of years ago, I thought about doing some outdoor news content, but had to table it. Great to see that "great minds, think alike." LOL. Hopefully, this year I can get my video editing suite upgraded to Apple, so I can start putting up long-form videos again. Keep up the great work, enjoy your videos very much! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
An all too common problem here in NH in the White Mountains with rescue services needed. Some of the most severe weather in the world and people don't take it seriously.
Hey Luke, it's crazy that person wore crocks hiking. Some people just don't get it. They think they are invincible. I know some people said they were going to go camping next year. I told them to watch your channel and get the correct info before they go. They said they watched and are grateful because they got the info they needed and will continue to watch. They liked and subscribed to your channel. Thank you.❤ Ms Ann 🙏🏽 hello sweet Susie 🌹
My 17 year old son wore Crocs on our Havasupai backpacking trip including the 18 mile off trail hike to the confluence. He wore the same Crocs to the Zion Subway. We are experienced hikers/backpackers, he considered his footwear, decided to go with the Crocs, and they worked great. Also it was summer....
A lot of folks have no concept of how far a five mile hike is when it’s mostly switchbacks up or down a mountain. They think: “If it starts getting dark or too cold, I can just turn around and walk back the way I came.” Add ice or rain to the mix, and they are like a child lost at the mall.
I agree. That’s why I have sympathy for these people and not scorn like some in these comments. Sometimes you don’t know what you do t know, and don’t know that you need to know it.
The NY State Environmental Conservation Department sends out a weekly summary of forest ranger actions. I would bet that 90% of the rescues they report say something like this: "Two hikers climbing X Mountain became lost and contacted 911. Their only light source was their mobile phone and the battery was running low. Two rangers hiked two miles to their location and escorted them down the trail to their car." Come on, people, can't you at least throw in a headlamp?
Are rescue is not training... no matter how silly the origin of the crescent. It's an actual event, with both victim and rescuers at risk. Training takes place in environments of controlled risk
I’ve been in search and rescue since 2018. The vast majority of SAR personnel oppose charging people for rescues. The reason being that if a person knows they will be charged they will wait longer to ask for help. The risks to SAR personnel increase when it’s dark or there is inclement weather. We want people to call for help as soon as they need help. Not to wait until it’s dark and sleeting and we can’t launch a chopper and people have to hike in. It increases odds of injury or death to SAR personnel and decreases survival odds of the subject being rescued.
Are you guys on call being paid rescue or not?
@@MarkJones-sk6vk We are volunteers, but we work with paid rescuers (Army, Airforce PJ's, State Troopers). Volunteers make up the bulk of rescue work in my state. The Troopers, Army and PJ's only come out for life, limb or eyesight basically. Volunteers do the rest of it, and most body recoveries outside the city.
You make a valid point, yet I would submit that if hikers/ backpackers/ trail runners were held accountable for their decisions you would likely see fewer calls for service. I would suggest that those going into the wilderness areas provide a cash deposit, refundable upon leaving the area. No accountability is a large part of the problem.
I was going to say the same thing. SAR member since 2012, and I've seen lots of stupid things that did not turn out to be body recoveries only because the subjects called for help in time. Fear of getting charged for rescue will only lead to delays and unnecessary deaths. I don't know what the best solution is, but I cannot endorse charging for rescue. And, to the question asked by Mark, I'm on a strictly volunteer team.
Thanks for the info. I was non-rated crew on army helicopters many yrs ago. Helping ppl in need was the best part of the job.
In New Hampshire if u are not prepared u get fined $1,500 if u are prepared and it's a accident u don't get fined. Also in New Hampshire it's smart to get a Hike Safe Card that helps support the numerous Mountain Rescue groups in the state which many are volunteers
.. The Hike Safe Card is a good concept , only thing is it's a volunteer program ...... Maybe there should be a required Trail Use License ,, just like having a fishing license ,, low cost but at the volume of people on trails it could fund the SAR and Emergency Services enough to operate without debt. .. Even a percentage for trail maintenance costs ..
@@rockytopwrangler2069 A lot of people would hike without paying for a card. It's impossible to check everyone that hikes if they have a card. That is why it's a voluntary thing.
The card is great in theory, but my understanding is that there's a provision that they can/will charge you if you're negligent. Legally, negligence is a failure to behave with the level of care that a reasonable person would exercise, but what's a reasonable person when the majority of people going for a hike aren't serious hikers? Personally, I think microspikes are for walking around town, not a real hike, but does a reasonable person think you can go on a winter hike and cross an icy sloe with just microspikes? I also have a perception that NH's opinion of how prepared you are is influenced by whether or not you're from out of state. I don't remember the details, but I know of an incident where somebody was billed for a rescue based on the states contention that it was somehow related to a previous injury. I've got an old ankle injury that's become more limiting as I've gotten older, but would they have billed me if I sprained that ankle when I was in my mid 30's and could carry a 70 pound pack up to Tuckerman Ravine in under 90 minutes?
I think there's also a problem with proportionality. On one hand, it's not expensive for most people, but it costs a good bit more than the share of hunting and fishing license fees that go to search and rescue. A senior NH resident can get a combination hunting and fishing license for about half the cost of the Hike Safe card. There is no senior option for non-residents. A non-senior resident can get a hunting license for about $10 more than the card. I don't know if all hunting and fishing licenses protect you from being billed for a rescue, but there are a few licenses that are as cheap as $11 even for non-residents. If that gets you the protection the card is just way to make a donation to SAR without the possibility of a tax deduction.
And finally, what we need in the US is a readily available low cost rescue card that isn't limited to a single state, as is common in Europe. Not all US states even have an option, but for the ones that do should we spend $150 if we do at least one hike in each of 6 states in a given year? FWIW, NH has also made a few attempts to require licensing of canoes and kayaks in the past. Want to use a fishing kayak and a recreational kayak on a week's vacation in NH? That will be $20 for the two kayaks, please. Family of 4 with one-person kayaks? $40. Fortunately they seem to have abandoned that idea.
@@rockytopwrangler2069 The NH SAR team is also mostly all volunteers except for the Fish and Game officers who coordinate rescues. Our Search and Rescue is top notch because everyone who is doing it is doing it for the right reasons, and are usually extremely experienced people who could climb these mountains blindfolded. The Hike Safe Card also protects you from fines and the cost of rescue unless you do something really stupid. Almost everyone has one.
Colorado has a similar program to help fund S&R. I’ll still contribute even when I’m too old and decrepit to get out in the wild.
"A Hiker wore Crocs Up a Mountain in Winter and Sparked A Rescue Mission"..... ............. ouch.... that just makes my head hurt..... it gives me a brain cramp.
@@SageBlackthorn Same, thought I misheard that, had to replay it twice but I still almost couldn't believe it!😂
I mean sure, I can understand *bringing* crocs to wear around camp.. But *wearing* them while ascending!? 🤦
Some people really ought to have some sense literally knocked into them! 🙌
Crocs? I could have gotten further in my Birkenstocks.
@@MarkusMöttus-x7j It sounds like some of them did get sense knocked into them - literally - by a tree LOL
@@NalaRichenbach My husband wears Birks everywhere. His mother said when he was 7 he went up Enchanted Rock in flip flops. LMAO
@@thedeafcattledog8608 I wouldn't be bragging about it.
Merry Christmas! I literally just broke my ankle in 2 places while on a backpacking trip 2 days ago. I was solo and crossing a creek. I got across just fine, it was the second creek crossing and the first went just fine, but when I went to take a step up to get out of the water somehow I slipped and fell breaking my right ankle. I was able to bandage and somewhat stableize the ankle and get myself out of the forest and call for help. I did have to leave my pack behind but a ranger did get it for me without me even asking. The EMTs were very happy to not have to go into the woods to get me and that I already had myself bandaged up and when we got to the ER they were telling others about how I self rescued. I was fortunate that I was able to do it and I’m not sure how I managed except that I did do my best to be prepared and that the Lord was with me.
Self rescue takes preparation, just like choosing the right clothing and gear. Well done and prayers for complete healing!
@@debicraddock5603 thank you. It was one of the scariest things I have ever been through. I was wet, cold, in a lot of pain and all alone. I typically love being out alone but this was obviously different. I see the orthopedics surgeon tomorrow and am hoping to not have surgery like they were saying in the ER. Either way, whatever happens I will eventually be fine, it will just take time.
I was once walking on a side road and came to a ford. There was a footpath to one side, but as the water was less than an inch deep I walked across. Big mistake... It was covered with what looked like bis beach pebbles. I didn't know that these were incredibly slippery. Zero friction. Apparently, rocks under water often get covered by algae. Very slippy. Same with rocks above water which rarely dry out. A shady footpath in my own garden gave me a nasty fall a couple of years ago. I always take two trekking poles whenever I go rough walking or suspect ice.
Curious, were you using trekking poles?
I also loved being solo in the back country. It does substantially raise the risk level. Some of those risks can be mitigated but not all of them. Making certain someone reliable knows where you are going and precisely when you plan to return may be the single most important thing one can do.
I am not a gear junkie. I am old school, adaptable, not well funded.
I am not a fan of content creators that feature "new" kinds of gear, but this video was so well done that I made an exception.
I am now a new subsciber to this channel. Well done in so many ways.
Thank you very much for this video. I was up on this trail this thanksgiving literally days before this chain of accidents took place. The trail was quite treacherous and the snow was definitely not firm after a couple hours of sunshine. I turned back before the summit knowing that it’s not impossible that I will need rescue if I continued, and looking at these folks I must consider myself lucky.
The way this works here in Slovakia is that you are encouraged to buy insurance before venturing into mountains, and in case you need to be rescued, insurance company is paying for it. You are also free to not buy an insurance, but in that case, if you need it, you are paying for the rescue.
That is the best idea. We do have that for car rentals and probably other things that I'm unaware of but it should be mandatory for hikers or like in Slovakia no insurance ? You pay for a rescue. The US does wave rescue cost if the person was prepared for the conditions and has an accident and has to be rescued. Not sure if that is true of every state but it is in mine.
@@djg5950 I pay for the extra 'extraction insurance' that you can add onto Spot locator emergency beacon. It's $39 per year. If you have to be rescued and get charged, they will cover the cost. If you are going to go play in the back country, a geolocator is a great idea and so is rescue insurance.
For the most part the US doesn't have an easy option for that, and certainly not one that works in all US states.
If we had that kind of insurance in the US, companies would do what they always do: find ways to deny claims. It wouldn't help here.
Here in the uk we have volunteers operating in various areas England , Scotland and Wales these are essentially charitable entities. They're run by skilled mountaineers and climbers backed up by Air Sea rescue and Paramedics. They operate an astounding service for those in need. Ogwen MRT appears to have had many call outs this year mainly on Tryfan a knife edge ridge of a mountain in Snowdonia Wales.
Wentbto norway once, found out Scadanavia had cell phones since the 80's for this reason. They said it was because their government cared about them. Anything life threatening involving heart or brain incident gets free heli there. US has many gine helicopter rescue insurance programs people can buy into. Definitely recommend if you adventure or have medical issues. It can cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Thank you for passing along.
Too many of these stories end tragically because the individuals were untrained, ill-prepared and “just going on a day hike”.
.. As mentioned , most of the injuries here were foot or traction related ... over the past 20 years poor hiking footwear has been promoted and lack of needed traction devices and support staff or trekking poles used when needed .. AS with any sport or activity there needs to be skills and preparation ... Mother Nature will present herself .. The arrogant risk takers will be slapped down ..
Having been on a SAR team for eleven years in MI, I appreciate you putting this information out. Also, FYI, my team was a volunteer organization as part of the emergency services department of the local PD.
@@marjiecleveland Appreciate your drive to aid those in dire situations.
Though, our PD is hoarding tax dollars not doing it themselves.
One of my favorite sayings is this "Better a live Donkey than a dead Lion." Ernest Shackleton. During a hike I was on the weather started to shift and that saying popped into my head as I debated whether to push on or not. Turned around found a good spot and setup camp. Then the storm hit.
A true accident shouldnt be charged. Those that aren’t prepared and do stupid things should be charged
Simple as that.
.. "Accidents" can be avoided .. With needed skills ,, with attention used and proper gear .. ... all should be charged but even the stupid should not be fined beyond the cost charge ..
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Who decides what is considered an accident, and what is carelessness? Most non outdoors people believe just going in the wilderness is careless. Most people who are outdoors minded people think winter camping is careless. Maybe the hospital should be the ones to decide. They would never manipulate a system to turn a profit. What if they can't afford the medical visit? Should they need to pay a premium on health insurance, or should insurance be allowed to deny coverage due to the diagnosis of carelessness? There are enough laws, fees, rules, and regulations on the books as is, can't we leave the woods out of it?
It’s so hard to define careless in some instances. Would I be considered “careless” as an over 60 solo female backpacker, something I OFTEN do? I have many friends and coworkers who think so, but they don’t even car camp or walk in the woods.
I worked as a park ranger for a few years and the number of times I saw people in crocs, no backpacks, and 1 bottled water (like a Dasani, not a Nalgene) on a 95 degree day was astounding. One day we had to actually turn people away if they couldn't show me they had enough water because it was so hot that day. I think because society is so used to a comfortable lifestyle we're out of tune with nature and how brutal it can be. They see videos on social media and think "oh, we can do that, let's just go" without doing research. I will also say, signage only works maybe 25% of the time (and that's being generous). People who will read the signs are the ones that would actually be prepared. Even when I was stationed at a trail head I had lots of resistance and frustration directed at me when I tried to educate, so I'm not quite sure what the answer is. Perhaps if there is proof that sufficient notice has been given then the cost of rescue should absolutely fall on the hiker. It's a tough question because on one hand, where's the accountability? On the other hand, accidents DO happen. Maybe in off season or extreme-temperature days visitors need to sign some kind of waiver saying they understand the risks. I guess that would mean the park would have to have funding to station someone though. Thanks for the video and letting me ramble about this topic which has been an issue for years.
"Think about how dumb the average person is and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that" - George Carlin
👍
That explains how trump actually won !
So true
Another way of saying it is "Half the population has a below average IQ."
Stupider? common lol
I stick to mostly day hikes out with my two dogs, but if I'm going to be in more wilderness areas I always make sure to carry a first aid kit, more than enough water for all three of us, extra protein bars and other basic survival gear just in case. In the SE US, in the middle of summer, I'm always amazed at the number of people that don't have water with them (I mtb in all seasons, hike only in winter with the dogs) or even that I've had to point towards the trail head.
These “News Stories” are extremely valuable - especially if you include a good bit of the details. It gives us an opportunity critique what someone did right as well as what they did wrong. Approached with a desire to learn, and improve, much can be gleaned from mistakes and successes. Keep them coming Luke. They can provide a great benefit to the outdoor community!
This is the reason why I follow you on UA-cam. You have been a God send with gear and information. Your still my go to guy for reviews and now info. KEEP’em coming when you can. They need to be informed
SEMPER FI
People should be responsible for themselves- their food, clothing, housing, healthcare AND potential rescues. There can be something like rescue insurance and it wouldn’t be expensive. Anyone without it should be subject to paying the cost of their own rescue
I totally agree with you Luke, since I was a member of the search and rescue team in the Shawnee National Forest area and we had to carry out everyone of those we had to rescue, because they would get to close to the edge of the bluffs and fall off not thinking how slippery the moss on the bluff can be, and we would repell down the bluff and have a stretcher lowered down and there was a minimum of 8 personnel it was always 6 rescuers and 2 EMT'S, because once we found them the trek out was a long walk out, because we couldn't pull them up the bluff so we walked them out on a stretcher and the other 2 rescuers would led the way keeping the path clear and looking out for rattlesnakes especially during the spring, summer and fall season. We didn't mind going out and doing what we did, but someone does need to be responsible for part of the cost of personnel and equipment.
@@dwaynebeavers2088thank you for all you do. I posted a couple weeks ago about breaking my ankle on a hike and being able to get myself out. I was hiking in Giant City State Park which is part of the Shawnee National Forest. My Nurse anesthetist, I had to have surgery, was telling me how she fell down a cliff there and had to be rescued and she also broke an ankle. I was fortunate enough to have what I needed supply and skill wise to very painfully get myself out and then call for help. I really didn’t want anyone having to come in and get me if I could avoid it. I am so thankful that you and others are willing and able to be there for those who need you. I had the absolute best EMTs ans hospital staff ever.
I live near there and have a friend on LVMPD S & R. He was telling me about all of those rescues. The ones that weren't prepared, I just rolled my eyes.
I live up in the New York Adirondack mountains and I find people hiking the peaks totally unprepared. Most of the time underdressed and under equipped. I believe that those people should pay for their rescue.
I am local and climb there almost every weekend. It gets to zero degrees in the winter and below with the wind chill. Mt Charleston takes real mountaineering experience in the winter plus the proper gear. Micro spikes are not proper traction devices for ice covered mountainsides that easily go above 30 degrees in places. The flat trail quickly becomes a sloped hillside as the snow and ice builds up. These trails need crampons, ice ax and a helmet to navigate. If you know how to use these and have the proper clothing you skip the trails and go right up the side of the mountain. It’s so much fun and majestic in the winter in MT Charleston.
Merry Christmas to you and your family...I like the news stories, keep them coming.
Thanks!
Great video - thank you for doing these. Years ago I was backpacking out West, got over a ridge into high country, and realized that I didn't have a) the proper gear and b) the proper skills. I spent one night in the high country, and then turned around and headed back to lower/safer trails. I didn't want to put anyone at risk, including me and the SAR teams out there. It's important to be prepared with the proper gear, to have the appropriate skill set for that particular adventure, and be confident to call your own number when you're in over your head. I had a great trip and I made it home safe and sound.
God point. People need to know their limits, would eliminate a lot of s.a.r., not referring to a real accident. Certain people watch videos of experianced hikers and think they can do it. I have watched videos and see them do stupid things time and time again.
As a Las Vegas resident, I've repeatedly hiked this trail. I would never hike it during the winter, as the weather in the Spring Mountains can be very unstable. These people must be unprepared day hikers, and imho, don't belong on that trail during the winter.
I used to hike a LOT near Atlanta - everything from the Byron Reese trail to the stone hut on the AT in North GA to state parks all over the northern half of the state. I had to help people at Sweetwater Creek State park more than once, and one that comes to mind is the White trail, which is a 5 mile loop. That's right, keep going forward, you end up back at the parking lot. Turn around and go back? You end up at the parking lot. Well marked, easy-to-see, two hour trail. I ran into people with 'walk around the house' flip-flops, no water on a 98 degree day in GEORGIA, and they were panicking because they thought they were lost, on a tiny little 5 mile loop.
I've seen plenty of flip-floppers also .. even trail runners wearing bikini's on 11k mtn trails ... reminded me of the old Budweiser commercials ... with the Swedish bikini team dropping out of a Helicopter ..
Keep publishing this kind of news.
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada
I've hiked to the top of Half Dome in Yosemite N.P. 4 times, 3 of those hikes were before a permit was required ( Though I don't know if requiring a permit makes people more prepared or not ) From the Yosemite valley floor it's 8.1 miles each way, with a 4,700' elevation gain. On Half Dome there are steel cable handrails to help people get up the very steep and slick granite. I've seen several people wear improper footwear, and on the granite they had difficulty. The worst was "the guy" On two of my trips I saw not the same person, but two guys that dressed and prepared the same. Basketball shorts, t-shirt, flip flops and a 12oz. bottle of water. Both times I passed "the guy" as I was on my way back down, he was heading up, far too late in the day,, laying on a rock and groaning with pain and exhaustion. I assume that at some point they gave up, turned around and got back to the valley well after dark.
Places like that with cables and/or giant staples as steps are death waiting to happen ,, and a few do every year .... The forest services need to remove all these eyesores ,, destruction of natural landmarks and landscapes ..
You hit the nail on the head. Too many people nowadays have no critical thinking skill or "common sense". Luckily, back in the day when I was working parks, we didn't have as many incidents. The dangers were always there, but usually drinking or too busy having fun and not thinking we're the culprits and not as many novices would get into the back country. I can remember one Ranger talking about overhearing a conversation between a urbanite father talking with his young child. Plenty of signage to keep clear and not feed or take pictures close to the wildlife. Child informs dad to stay back and need the warning signs. Father says there is no way the federal government would have dangerous animals in the parks because they would be sued. Another was a woman that was hiking up to a local mountain top and the weather turned bad. This was in the early days of cell phones, but she was able to get search and rescue. The chopper located and extracted her, but at some point she was able to see how close she was to the top and asked to be put back to complete the hike. She was told no, that they were there for a rescue and that's not proper protocol. She demanded to be put back or she would sue...needless to say she didn't get her way. I've noticed we seem to have more of these types over the years and technology has been a double-edged sword, bringing more people to remote areas. Please get the proper training and gear and do your research before you go "out there"; things still happen, but you minimize the dangers when follow the six P's (you could add a seventh, but I cleaned it up), prior proper preparation prevents poor performance. There are more, but I'm sure you get the drift. Be safe and may the peace of Jesus Christ be with you and your families and have a Merry Christmas.
I always go on trips alone with my dog, and I will ALWAYS prepare for the worst scenario. I take preparation seriously. I go on a few day hikes a year with other people, and it is amazing how unprepared some people are in a case where an accident is very possible. People make fun of me about me being paranoid, etc when they see what I take with me even on a dayhike. If I am going anywhere where there is a remote chance of me being stuck, I will at the very least have an emergency shelter of some sort, multiple ways to make fire, and contain, purify/filter water. Variables are something I will always think about, and my life, as well as my dog's life is highly valuable to me. I think it is idiotic to not take in consideration the worst case scenario when going out into nature. I see so many people putting their lives, friend's lives, and pet's lives at risk when they go out into the woods, and it aggravates me.
Same. Even on a day hike my back pack has close to 5 lbs of emergency stuff in it. People would rib me about it a ittle until one day someone had and incident and guess who was the only one prepared to handle it? Emergency equipment fix? Yep. Surprise rain storm? Right here. The good thing about it is that after that incident some people started carrying at least an emergeny 1st aid kit and multitool in their packs.
u put yourself at risk going alone
@Lauren-vd4qe Wisdom. That's why I personally don't do it unless it's a popular route I know other hikers will be on that day, and even then not that often. That, and texting a friend your route's details and check ins at the least at the start and finish.
There are a lot of UA-cam videos with solo hikers but very few who include thier safety precautions.
i take an emergency bivvy and firestarter with me even on a short loop, in case i somehow manage to get injured out of the way and need to wait some time to be rescued. even on "in town" hikes where the woods aren't that deep, having an extra 10oz of stuff in my pockets is a small amount of effort that could have a huge payoff
Mt Baldy in So Cal has so many rescues needed and lost hikers every winter. People go up ill prepared because it's "not far from LA, how bad can it be"...
Same thing with the Santa Ynez Mountains north of Santa Barbara, except in the summer. People have no idea how hot it gets up there, and there's no water available. Plus it's a cell phone dead zone. It presents you with the bracing possibility of getting ledged out and dying of dehydration, while still being able to see the city and the ocean shore in the distance.
Every year, I do the same snow hike. It's an icy set of switchbacks along a strip drop, then a wayfinding through thick snow to an alpine lake with avalanche danger on the far side. Every year, I see people ill prepared in tennis shoes and no packs heading up from the parking lot. The signage is clear. It amazes me that people always forget that the mountains in the winter are very dangerous
I live in Mexico, this is a problem here too, people is sometimes very irresponsible while visiting some of our mountains, they just don't take things serously, and rescue teams have to work for that.
I like to hike alone sometimes, but i do take my precautions and try to be as safe as i can, never had a problem or got lost.
We have this discussion all the time here in BC, volunteer SAR teams spend a lot of time and effort rescuing people who go off trail or who just unprepared. Wheeled off road travelers are equally showing up unprepared.
I ran into a young who had blown the diff on thier jeep, both wearing t-shirt, shorts and flip flops with nothing else to put on. They were just out for the day was their reasoning. Where they were was a rough rocky forest service road, About 4 km (2.5 - 3 miles) from the main, and fairly steep up and downs. There is no cell phone service and they literally had no clue where exactly they were other than off the West Harrison Lake FSR.
It was late it the day when I found them, purely by accident I was looking for a bypass route around a failed bridge. It was cooling off and they had been there for a couple hours hoping someone would come along, on a tiny off the side of the side road track. No food no water. Just nuts.
My Spot gps has an option to purchase rescue insurance for about $30 a year. What a good deal
I live close to Rocky Mountain national Park. So many tourists coming to hike in Crocs and flipflops! Job security for a local hospital ER
I’ve dutifully left detailed commentary on helping my fellow travelers up their preparation and by consequence their safety. I’ve penned hundreds of articles, comments and show scripts. It’s mind boggling the number of grown adults who conflate “being a hater” with being an adult
Interesting discussion. In the pyrenees and alps they have implemented huge fines if you need to be rescued with helicopter etc. Especially Spain & Italy are sick and tired of unprepared "hikers" that end up missing/lost. We are talking about thousands of euros in fines. I myself have run into "lost hikers" in the pyrenees screaming for help - while I had the time of my life. Having the right equipment I had to waste half a day leading the group to the nearest village where they could get help with their frostbites, hypothermia, dehydration, cuts and bruises. I might sound harsh - but people need to stop thinking that going into remote mountainous areas are like a trip to disney world. Nature is unforgiving and will snuff you out in a second if you are not prepared .
100% Luke.....Of all the winter trail or campers I watch...I think you take your adventures very seriously...Cheers!
I am in the northeast of Scotland, and the number of people we have going into the cairngorms from the south with no proper gear is frustrating. The mountain rescue teams put themselves at risk to get them off the mountains, and here they are volunteers
hey Luke, i really like these news episodes. you always talk about the dangers but most people this a danger survived was no danger at all. i think if people see what can happen then it hits home.
Very informative video. I've been solo backpacking since I was 17 (now 68) and never had an issue because I was properly trained in Boy Scouts to be prepared. I was fortunate to have been in a scout troop that was heavily involved in backpacking and even took some survival training. I always tell someone reliable what my itinerary is so they know who to contact if I don't check in. Proper gear is essential. I've had to abort trips because of severe weather changes or because I was feeling ill. Don't let your pride over rule common sense since it could save your life. Search and rescue teams are awesome. Where I live in southern California they are always rescuing people and 90% of the time it is because they are ill prepared. I believe that if someone is irresponsible then they should pay the costs of being rescued.
First, Merry Christmas to you and yours!
Second, I'm a veteran SAR volunteer, worked Haywood and Buncombe counties, back in the 70's, most of us as initial responders were, and some still are volunteers. Personally, accidents happen, and I don't mind helping those folks. But the amount of what I will only label as "stupid human tricks" seem to be happening more and more. And I'm of the opinion the only sign that should be posted at trailheads everywhere, If you are not properly prepared for this trail, you will be required to pay reimbursement for any and all expenses to drag your stupid body out. Now enjoy your adventure!"😊
And a heartfelt thank you! For not just the testing that you do, but for these reports you put out as well. I must admit that I am living vicariously through your adventures as I just can't go and do any more.
It’s so cheap to get a small backpack together with some basic supplies. Hiking first aid kit, survival blanket, pocket knife, some protein bars, bottle of water, some rope, I even put extra gloves in, some fire starter (bic lighter or similar), hot hands…all of these things are small, lightweight and can make a huge difference in your survivability. But your best chance at not just survival but enjoying your trip is as this guy says: prepare and evaluate. If you’ve never hiked before don’t start by trying to climb Everest.
Thanks for sharing. I live in Las Vegas, and the number of times that I see people that are not equipped or ready to go on hikes out here I cannot count. I know that I overprepare by the views of some, but I would rather have it and not need it compared to the other way around. I grew up with the 10 essentials as a framework, and I stick to it. From experience I have learned to carry extra water when it is hot, and to carry extra ski caps when it is cold. I felt horrible for these French girls that were visiting once without being prepared. I happened to have a spare set of gloves that I was able to give them, and I made sure they got back to their car. I think people don't take hiking in the Las Vegas area seriously, however, I have seen the same recklessness in Yosemite and Zion. I think people assume that if they are on a trail, that it is safe, and that equipment is not necessary. In our current culture it may not be a bad idea to have trails have ratings of difficulty and danger at the trail heads. Of course, as I used to stress to people when going out bouldering or climbing, you can break your ankle from falling a foot if you land wrong.
.. Most well known trails DO have a printed rating system ,, but the occasional tourist or friend of a friend will never look it up ,, and many don't even take the time to read the constructed information signs .. ... Rock climbing and such is a skill that should be geared properly towards ...
@@rockytopwrangler2069 Like you said, most well know trails do have a printed rating system. Red Rock Canyon is very hit and miss in this regard. If you pick up the map from the rangers, it rates all of the trails. That being said, the trail heads as I stated before are very hit and miss.
@@gregbradshaw3410 ... It's up to the hiker/ climber etc. to do their own homework and know the rules and regulations of any area intended to travel and recreate ,, not the forest service or state/county land management to provide each and every person a handbook .... Just as a hunter or fisherman is required to know of seasons, dates and game allowed to harvest .. all information is available for anyone preparing for the use of trails/camps and necessary regs. such as a fire ban ... or bridges out .. That's just part of being prepared ..
Thank you Luke for sharing this.. Merry Christmas to you Susie and family.
Great video Luke!
Keep up the good work.
Right now, I'm on a mountain right next to mt. Charleston.
At Ease!
Im well equipped, prepared, and I'm not greenhorn!
Sept, 2021 I was at Lower Boy Scout Lake (10,350 ft). Next day , hike up to Upper Boy Scout Lake (11,350). Got a weather report (Garmin In Reach), snow possible at that elevation. Getting there the path is a lot of slab granite. If I needed to abort, I did not want to be walking downhill on granite with frozen water or snow. I went back to my car. I was 77 then .
Well done and informative. Thank you.
As a 10-year SAR volunteer and a medical professional, there are many facets to both how our subjects get into the situation and how SAR resources are utilized. There are some states that will bill the rescued party per man-hour if they parties were found negligent. I'm glad all of these cases did not result in a loss of life, but people do need to bear some responsibility
A few months ago I read 'Deep Survival' by L Gonzales. Facinating book, but one account jogged my mind when I watched this clip- the author, with his girlfriend went on a short day hike (Utah? I think?) Scheduled to be an hour walk, then back to the resort hotel. The weather changed rapidly, they got disoriented and started shivering. It ended well ( he finished and published the book obviously!) but he spanked himself for making wrong decicions that he KNEW better to make...but in the moment, he had an incident of (his words) stupidity. Great post...and even veteran outdoor people can hava a stupid day.
Wow, I had no idea they had such beautiful mountains by Vegas.
Thank you.
Everything Luke is saying is accurate...and it all goes back to this: failure to properly plan on your part doesn't justify an emergency on someone else's. We all know accidents will happen...but if you have the training and experience you can minimize the damage. If you don't, you shouldn't take the risk.
This happens allot in Arizona people from back east come to tackle the West, also called snowbirds.
Great episode. Perhaps the signage at the beginning of these trails could have a warning that gives a list of specific gear recommended for that trail. The sign could give fair warning that if you have to be rescued and you did not have the proper gear that you will have to pay the cost for the rescue.
Thanks for the video!
I believe over the years of hiking I've witnessed a gradual lack of training on hikes, less scouting less learning and an increase in people who take to trails with the thought that if something goes wrong I'll just call 911, it's really annoying to people who prepare and spend hours and weeks preparing, ive seen this issue more and more, for the continued love🥾🥾🥾
.. Maybe from the UA-cam Ultralight hikers making things look easy .. I have seen more of the careless , unskilled ,unprepared over the past 15-20 years ... since cell phone/internet era ..
I don’t see how it makes it annoying to the more prepared. Like you are less likely to be in the bad situation of other people, seems normal to me.
@internetrules8522 you arrive at a shelter after a cold front moved in the area "you" hiked thru snow cold rain then snow between times your shell froze, but you prepared you will be ok just exhausted, you see the shelter and get a rush of good feelings...you walk up to the front of the shelter to find 2 individuals in the depths hypothermia, you, do the best you can put your extra cloths on one put the other in your sleeping bag try to get a fire started boil water call 911..case one both pass away, case 2 trail runners and helicopter arrive to save one, Noth cases happen in in 2024, the hiker who was prepared is changed for life, some think maybe for the better some think no more, it could be described as more than annoying, but if by using the word annoying gets one more person to prepare better then yes its annoying, for the love🥾🥾
Coming soon, insurance will be necessary to enter the wilderness.
Don’t think so.
.. Would definitely cover the costs by SAR ......... better than closing some awesome trails ..
In Europe to hike the TMB, I had to show proof I had air rescue insurance and that I had medical insurance accepted in Europe. Just yesterday there as an air rescue from the mtns where I live. Have not heard why the rescue was required yet. Boy scout motto BE PREPARED, learned at 13to, um now 73yo I still hiking and exploring
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays Nicols Family!! Safe Dry and Merry!!
Also former Ground SAR and 💯 about safety and working smarter not harder.
Merry Christmas Luke, Susie and family 🎄!
Merry Christmas to you, Luke. And to all the YT viewers. May the coming year find you on the trail, safely that is. I suppose it all boils down to the old saying, which is, "A person MUST know their limitations. "
A friend of mine had to be rescued while floating down the river and they billed him for it. He was completely unprepared and had never floated a river before. I feel bad because I do it all the time with my kids and post pictures, so he brought his daughter!
And there's a major reason for many of the problems we're seeing now. People see posts of amazing things or places on social media and decide they want to do that or go there. Most f those posts are all about how nice it is, how much fun it is, how pretty it is, and rarely anything about how to do it.
@OccamsToaster That's exactly why I felt bad. I felt responsible for inspiring him to go do it, even though that wasn't my intention. It made me think about how I should talk about safety if I'm going to share experiences like that.
@@ShinyNickelBlades If you didn't know he was planning to do it there's no reason at all to feel bad about what happened. It's a great idea to mention safety or that people need to learn how to do stuff, but on most platforms it's really easy for people to look at the pretty pictures, and ignore other stuff except perhaps to find out where something is.
WTH? I literally live down the mountain, and I haven't heard of any of these rescues! Usually these things are on the news. I guess I've missed them. On another note, I see people all the time out here not prepared for anything in the outdoors. So many people out here are blissfully ignorant of the dangers.
People always ask me, "why do you carry so much?" And the answer is, "because so many people carry nothing" and I can try to help if needed. I don't think I carry much, but it's definitely more than the average day hiker.
Mother Nature sometimes reminds the ignorants in a rather rough way...
Luke, great point about rescue and the price involved. I ll bring your attention to your adventue when you were on Wolf Mountsin and received NWS warnings about high wind, flooding, and pending tornatos, told to leave immediately and seek indoor shelter. Yet you refused to leave, called susie to say you love her, and stated you at least would die doing what you love. You at the.least are a hypocrite when you say you would never put yourself in danger. If a hiker gets a NWS WARNING to leave, do it IMMEDIATELY. You could have been injured and needed to be rescued. Who pays? The tax payer. Preach do as I say, not as I do????
I've have seen it here in the PNW. People out for day hike ill prepared. I see things like them wearing sneakers in shorts and tank tops and carrying a plastic shopping bag for there drinks and snacks. Some them going without water or back packs, nothing! Some of these hikes are some 3.5 hour to 4 hour hikes up to 5500 feet in elevation. There usually in groups of 3-5. Most go some what prepared but you can tell they only have snacks and water. I have seen people in flip flops on these trails too. Trails are crowded and to many are really unprepared.
I like the fact that he is wearing at least three layers during this talk. Possibly four if you count his hand protection.
Hell, even going hiking at the Peaks of Otter I have stuff to hold me over at least a day in case something happens. I have come down the trail and pass people heading up wearing t-shirt, shorts, running shoes and only having a water bottle. They aren't even able to put a band aid on a scratch should they trip. Yes, chances are nothing is going to happen, but the one time it does....
I love these episodes!
I worked with the Forest Service for almost 16 years patrolling the AT , the Lincoln Woods Wilderness Area and several other popular climbing & hiking areas in NH
I've defiantly seen more unprepared people venturing out than I can count , not only gear wise , but experience wise.
I was a SOLO Wilderness First Responder , High Angle Rescue certified and rescues / recoveries weren't all that an uncommon and a big part of my duties , Winter or Summer. We'd probably have 20ish extractions , several search & rescues, and sadly 8-10 recoveries a Summer and more minor injury responses were a daily occurrence in some of the more well used areas, normally used by the more inexperienced visitors . Sprains , strains, bigger boo-boo's , blisters , dehydration , heat stroke /exhaustion, ect . The usual stuff.
So plan according to when & where your going, be in shape to do so and have the right gear and learn the woods well before venturing to far.
All the best from the High Mountain Homestead and have a Blessed Christmas and New Year,,,,,
Great episode as usual Luke. You’re exactly right, people should be prepared when in the backcountry!
Merry Christmas to you and your family Brother!
🎄❤️🤘😎
Welcome to the wonderful world of social media influencer / tourist adventurer !
Luke, I listen to a particular Grand Canyon hiking podcast and the number of people who get "sucked into the canyon" with no prep and no supplies is absolutely astounding. I think they think it's like going to the mall. You know we can just wear our crocs and we don't need any water or a map or anything and if something goes wrong, the authorities will just come to our rescue. This is the mentality. And every year a few people find out the hard way what happens when you are not prepared. I highly recommend the book "Over the Edge: Death in Grand Canyon" - a book on how-not-to-die in the back country.
... That's right ,, the GC Guide services come down the trail every 15 minutes with a cart pulled by a donkey , with water ,food and a chair with a mounted umbrella .... easy-peasy ..
As a resident of Vegas for the past 40+ years and a hiker in the Spring Mountains for just as long, the people who hike here lately seem to be doing it for the Gram and for the FB "likes". I chased a few of them out of a 4000 year old Bristlecone Pine tree this past season. Totally disrespectful of nature, playing music loudly on the trail, etc.. I can't climb high enough to get away from them. Unfortunately, the South Loop Trail will teach them lessons the hard way, It's tough and steep. Crocs...I am not surprised.
I can’t count how many out of staters I found on the back roads in Northern Maine in cars stuck in the mud up to the rocker panels. Many many miles from cell reception. Yep, I pulled them out and shed some advice.
Merry Christmas and happy new year Luke and Susie!!!👍🏿💯❤️🎊🎊🎉🎉. Thank you so much for sharing this story with us!!! Strength and honor my friend be well!!!👍🏿👍🏿💯💯🎊🎊🎉🎉
That number is now 10. I was just there three days ago and on my way back down I met a couple that had just assisted a group of teenagers after one slipped down the switchbacks and injured their ankle. I heard the police helicopter working for a while, before meeting the couple. The couple said that the teenagers had no gear and had walked past the signage stating they would need crampons, poles or an axe. The sun had baked the switchbacks and melted a bunch of ice, once the sun went back behind the ridge everything froze turning the hillside into Elsa’s snow castle. It took me a long time to get to the bottom of the trail with Crampons and an ice axe.
Luke, thank you so much for taking the time to put these episodes out. I can’t believe the stupidity of some of these people., wearing crocks while hiking.
I have been watching another channel,Kyle Hates Hiking who covers stories of hikers and trail mysteries very thoroughly. I was unaware you had ventured into a similar area too.
Merry Christmas to you and yours Luke and Susie
The state of Oregon has a law allowing lost or injured hikers to be charged the cost of the rescue. This is rarely if ever used though as the responsibe rescue organizations don't want people choosing not to call for help over the fear of the cost.
Pass on the fees of saving their lives to the individual(s) who have not used common sense. Always have a Plan B!
Want to double the required resources of a rescue? Encourage people to wait another hour or two before asking for help.
Thank you!
Merry Christmas Luke, best wishes to you and the family....
Happy to hear people in danger don't have to decide between living or paying an incredible amount for a heli
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you Luke and your family. Thank you for the excellent news and reviews you have given over the years. I found this very interesting since I used to live in Las Vegas (1980-1992) and have hiked Mount Charleston several times, including once in the winter. It can be dangerous up there, regardless of the season. But in the winter, it can be exceptionally dangerous.
Crocs actually does make boots which might be appropriate for hiking on snow. I am thinking in particular about the Echo Boot Z.
Good afternoon from Syracuse NY And MERRY CHRISTMAS Luke and Susan and family
As a avid hiker/peakbagger for my entire adult life(45+ years) you wouldn't believe the things I've seen on trail. Actually seen the Crocs/sandals in winter conditions numerous times myself. Seen a young man on Humphreys Peak in deep snow on Memorial Day in a pair of pool flip flops. Several years ago on Mt. Wrightson...an elderly man froze to death. He had on shorts and a grey hoodie. I had full winter survival gear and didn't leave the trailhead and advised him to do so as well...came back two days later to find out he was missing and presumed dead. And this might cause some comments but trail runners that go out with minimal to no gear are setting themselves up for disaster. I'm amazed that more people don't die frankly. I truly believe permits and a ranger presence at trailheads to turn back ill prepared hikers is a must. Just my opinion.
They do this at the ranger station check in when climbing Katahdin.
@@katherinecollins9636 .. Maybe there , but very few are even near trailheads across the country ... and most hikers don't even know where the nearest one is if needed ...
Permits? No thanks, that’s absurd. These are adults with agency over their lives. Maybe a sign would be good but I shouldn’t have to pay a permitting fee to the government because some idiots get themselves killed
Although I understand the idea of stopping people at trailheads that do not have proper gear, it would be a huge tax payer burden to pay for rangers at all trailheads across the US. On top of that, having the proper gear doesn't mean knowing how to use said gear. Is the ranger responsible for the death of someone that had the proper gear but failed to use it properly? What if the person had heatstroke in the winter because that happens if they don't drink enough water and are sweating underneath all that extra clothing? The government can't police everything and shouldn't be doing more than it is. Some people will unfortunately lose their life because of their stupidity or ignorance on the trail just like some people will lose their life because of their stupidity and ignorance driving down the road. We don't need more big government to intervene and the risk to rescuers is their burden for choosing that career path or volunteering. They know the risk and we thank them for taking that risk. That's all that is needed.
Maybe you should stop and think about those trail runners for a minute. The vast majority of the time going out for an 8 mile run or hike nearly naked and with a granola bar and pint of water works out just fine. While most rescues may involve people who are inexperienced and/or unprepared most of the time it's something else that starts the problem. As for posting rangers at trailheads to violate our 4th amendment rights, I'll be happy to let you pay their salaries.
None of the incidents with the unprepared are surprising. I've come across the clueless and unprepared plenty of times in the Colorado mountains. I've even stopped and talked to those heading into potentially dangerous situations and most don't listen.
There is no excuse for it with all the resources available such as your channel that basically spell out the basics. Thanks for the great videos and this type of content that hopefully can get at least a few people to think and get prepared.
Luke,
Great information. I am glad that you are doing outdoor news videos. A couple of years ago, I thought about doing some outdoor news content, but had to table it. Great to see that "great minds, think alike." LOL. Hopefully, this year I can get my video editing suite upgraded to Apple, so I can start putting up long-form videos again. Keep up the great work, enjoy your videos very much! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Merry Christmas to you and yours Luke !
An all too common problem here in NH in the White Mountains with rescue services needed. Some of the most severe weather in the world and people don't take it seriously.
Happy & safe houldays.
Stupidity SHOULD hurt like an ice cream headache. It's not my job to correct that. It was that realization that led me to quit volunteering for S&R.
Merry Christmas Luke! Thank you for these informative videos!
Hey Luke, it's crazy that person wore crocks hiking. Some people just don't get it. They think they are invincible. I know some people said they were going to go camping next year. I told them to watch your channel and get the correct info before they go. They said they watched and are grateful because they got the info they needed and will continue to watch. They liked and subscribed to your channel. Thank you.❤ Ms Ann 🙏🏽 hello sweet Susie 🌹
My 17 year old son wore Crocs on our Havasupai backpacking trip including the 18 mile off trail hike to the confluence. He wore the same Crocs to the Zion Subway. We are experienced hikers/backpackers, he considered his footwear, decided to go with the Crocs, and they worked great. Also it was summer....
A lot of folks have no concept of how far a five mile hike is when it’s mostly switchbacks up or down a mountain.
They think: “If it starts getting dark or too cold, I can just turn around and walk back the way I came.”
Add ice or rain to the mix, and they are like a child lost at the mall.
I agree. That’s why I have sympathy for these people and not scorn like some in these comments. Sometimes you don’t know what you do t know, and don’t know that you need to know it.
The NY State Environmental Conservation Department sends out a weekly summary of forest ranger actions. I would bet that 90% of the rescues they report say something like this: "Two hikers climbing X Mountain became lost and contacted 911. Their only light source was their mobile phone and the battery was running low. Two rangers hiked two miles to their location and escorted them down the trail to their car." Come on, people, can't you at least throw in a headlamp?
On the positive side, these real rescues provide REAL training episodes for the SAR teams.
I say the people that are not prepared to hit a trail like that. They need to pay the bill, put an other people's lives in jeopardy😅
Are rescue is not training... no matter how silly the origin of the crescent. It's an actual event, with both victim and rescuers at risk. Training takes place in environments of controlled risk