Doki's lawyer: "Don't sue them, just stay low and let them destroy themselves" Doki: "Aight" Niji's lawyers: "OMG SHUT UP SHUT UP HOLY SHIT SHUT UP!!" Niji: "...Nah"
I mean it could have been PR telling Legal to shut up. Assuming they even have a PR Team. The entire thing was sooo stupid. Like the thing with the "We're going to have Talent go on Doki's Stream to read a Scripted Attack that's supposedly from the Heart, that Contradicts previous statement." An then they see that made things worse, so they triple down by releasing a 2nd Official Statement that contradicts everything else!! An since it's all 100% public, it's GOING to be used against them in Court. LOL.
Then again...maybe they got a Lawyer like Alina, who said she'd rather be Pretty than Smart, because she can Fake being Smart. Lol. Though I think a lot of this was interpreting Doki's actions consitently in the worst light. Like assuming she was going to release the document to the public, instead of wanting to work things out privately and legally.
@@fuzzybananasocks9396 I mean it's not just Lawyers. You have to have a good Client who is willing to be 100% honest and actually follow your advice. Lots of people will lie to their Lawyers and then the lawyer gets blindsided in court. That or people refuse to take advice from someone who has years of experience and it's their literal job. What's crazy is watching how bad Niji was doing. Like it was OBVIOUS they should have shut up by the 1st Official Statement. Then their Scripted Attack backfired. An then the Dumb Asses went for a SECOND Official Statement, pouring on MORE Gas onto the fire, that contradicts shit that's ALREADDY been said!! An it's all 100% public so easily used against them in Court.
@TheAyanamiRei I mean what did theh expect from $8 lawyer LMAO. That company is so cheapskate that i cant see a way they pay the lawyer more then the bare minimum. And that is why whatever legal move they move felt so half as*ed I think. Also the comms reddit that say the miscommunication I think i believe it can definitely happen. Niji got the first move but it was so bad and with how people dont trust them it is the worse PR move ever. But i dont think they can get charge in court though
Absolutely no need to go out of the way to defeat anycolor in court. Just lay low, and if they dare to kick things up again, just calmly cover all bases and don't respond to anything that doesn't need to be responded to. PR-wise, there has already been a clear winner before this whole debacle even started.
Niji COULD have done things to make it less awful. Like NOT admitting they knew about her getting bullied and doing nothing. They could have said they'd do an investigation and take action. An when they saw people were NOT responding, they should NOT have had the Talents give an OBVIOUSLY SCRIPTED Audio Recording DURING Doki's Stream that was "From The Heart." Doubly so, when it Contradcited Previous Statements, AND when their statements AFTER contradicted THAT. Hell you would have thought after the 2nd time, they would have stopped pouring gas on the fire...
@@TheAyanamiReithat's it, Elira's vod just simply destroy the CEO apology, and if we compare Niji to Hololive Mel's graduation... bruh don't even try to compare
@@TheAyanamiReithe better way is just to either let her graduate peacefully, or still fire her but not disclosing anything and give her best wishes as good gesture
When you terminate someone just don't say anything specific at all. "We are terminating Selen Tatsuki at this time" And then follow up with merch, channel and so on... But it feels like Nijisanji are mean teenage girls that need to get last word and one up the other side...
Just in case anyone tries to pull any misinformation here to slander the other lawyer. Legal Mindset also confirmed that she was doing great and the best thing she could do is play defensive. And also, repeatedly stated that the best option for Doki was to NOT file a lawsuit. Because the cost, the time it would take, the stress. Everything would be horrible for a victory that would not be worth it. And that even if she DID have a good case, that there are hundreds of factors that could even make a strong case make you lose, or a weak case make you win. The best end result if a lawsuit is filed is to settle if you're not so hungry for a result that you are willing to undertake Multiple Years and Multiple Hundreds of Thousands of dollars of cost. So both of them have the same answer. Don't sue, just be successful because Nijisanji screwed up, and Doki did great.
this right here, as another certain lawyer said...suing should be the mode of last resort for anyone. As the saying goes, "If you aim for the king, you better not miss".
Yep, she's winning the PR battle by far, but Niji is still a JP company with lots more resources, a team of lawyers, and JP law is tilted towards corporations and employee obedience. If she fights this in Canadian law she might have a better chance, but again she has much less resources than they do. Just let the PR burn them alive while she succeeds on her own, and turns any attack against her into a PR boost for herself by simply being nice or neutral.
Also factoring in that her case is unique - Most people exit with very little post-life support, so they pretty much have to start out on their own from scratch with a lesser fanbase usually. Doki on the other hand has so many avenues that are willing to bolster and usher her back to stardom. Hence she can afford to, and should just work on rebuilding her brand.
@@Spyducknot only her old fans, the internet have been united to support her. I personally hope it's gonna be a good lesson for big corporation about how to handle their staff.
I do think LM's analysis on the laws involved are important just for context and to show just how bad of a company and what bad employment behavior Niji has been doing using Selen as the prime example alongside Zaion's experiences. You are correct that he's stated multiple times that Doki remaining silent will win at the end of the day and possibly a settlement from Niji's misbehaviors. It's one thing to theorycraft a suit and what each side has going for them, and another to actually go through with it. Doki and her lawyer are playing the smart game here.
Someone said something that explained Niji's actions PERFECTLY! It was that at every turn, they interpreted EVERYTHING about Doki in the worst light. Like instead of reading "Hey we need to work this out legally OR ELSE I will make a Public Statement", they just assumed she was GOING to release a Public Statement, and TRIED to beat her to it. It's also that Niji has been EXTREMELY sloppy. Early vs Talent vs Late Statements from Niji have been CONTRADICTORY, which has ALSO made them look so much more SUS. IF instead of admitting they knew that she was getting bullied and did nothing, they said something like, "We're going to investigate this and take appropriate action" it would have looked MUCH better. NOTHING about this seems like it was done with an Experienced PR and/or Legal Team. Like this was some SERIOUS Amateur Hour BS.
It's either amateur PR/Lawyer team, Manchild higher up, or because like one of the commenters said "difference in culture". Most companies in Japan will throw someone under the bus even if it's not true, while in other countries will make the company look like a bully.
@@HowDo_IKnowBruh Except they didn't really do this nearly so much or as quickly. They also contradicted themselves multiple times too. That's not the work of someone acting logically. Not even getting into the release of Merch with a Fired Talent. That was just the icing on the cake. Lmao.
Niji could have avoided ALL of this if they let Doki graduate. Now, some of their talents might be investigated for reading documents that were supposed to go to legal ONLY. The talents really should've just refused to do that stupid live stream.
Doki/Selen raised that last january, from my interpretation she is not even asking for a graduation she was just asking for a "NEUTRAL" separation. Maybe just a notice that states both her and niji have mutually decided to part ways.
There's the Comms rrat which seems the likeliest where due to cultural differences, and them ghosting her, she sent a follow up to let them understand her position but they may have interpreted it as her saying she will release the information and they panicked into the black stream. Also Legal Mindset looked through Japanese contractor and employee law about firing, one of the requirement for hostile termination is if the talent is adversarial to other talents. So character assassination on Zaion and Selene.
Even Legal Mindset said that a lawsuit would not be the best option for Doki since she'll have to go to Japan for that. The most that can be done is a settlement through Canadian court. But like Grunkle, Legal Mindset also pointed out that Doki got the PR win in the bag. That she handled and represented herself way better than Niji with that blackscreen video and the "financially negligible" statement.
I have a guess: it's the difference between EN and JP culture. JP will try and bury a person with accusations, even if they're untrue. If a company in the US and elsewhere did that in the public, the company be seen as the bully.
Yeah, looking at the niji en twitter account, It seems like they kept dead silent until Scarle's birthday (glad a universally loved member had a birthday first to let things cool off before Enna's), and now they're probably going to slowly ramp back up to normal. This is gonna hurt their growth a hell of a lot, especially since they already had a rough year in that regard, but I think they've finally learned to stop making it worse. Honestly, the old PR team is probably out the door now, and I'm willing to bet this change only happened when they switch to an external PR firm to rescue them.
Talent of company does self harm as a result of possible internal bullying. Post-separation status: Alive and STONKS. Company does self harm as a result of possible internal bullying. Post-separation status: Bleeding out and DUNKED.
J.R.R. Tolkien was inspired by this man. He was told by the soothsayer that this man would be born and become who he is, and Tolkien was merely telling this future using his novels
In many cases, the PR court is vastly more important than the legal court. In the court of PR, Doki won, and she won way before Niji even fired her. If the results of this fight are anything to go by, Niji needed Selen way more than Doki needed Niji. The most interesting thing is that Niji was the side that brought this into the court of PR in the first place so all this damage to their reputation is entirely self inflicted. You want to know how stupid this all is? We would have NEVER known about the harassment, or who the potential harassers were, if Niji just shut the hell up. Doki never made her allegations public and never intended to. All she ever did was respond to Niji and be the adult in the room while the company had a toddler meltdown.
Legal mindset also said that Dokibird shouldn’t sue, several times throughout his streams. Lawsuits are bad for people’s mental health and she’d be financially better off keeping the money streaming. Though you’d have to watch through the 7 hour streams to see that. But it’s interesting to look through the case as a legal hypothetical.
Can't wait for the next time Hololive has an issue with a talent, and the mob switches back from "shut up" to "why aren't you providing all the dirt in 4K UHD?"
@@nope.0. Their track record says they will never dump dirt. That one holostars guy who just exited, Magni and Vesper, Mel, Rushia, Hitomi Chris; hololive will always have their mouths sealed shut.
Doki is the bigger person, can't believe she handled it so well compared to a multi billion dollar company would handle it Also didn't know Geralt become a lawyer in our world xD
In under 2 weeks Dokibird went from around 9k subs to over 612k & is setting up a 2nd charity stream. Really, the more she focuses on doing her thing & ignoring Nijisanji the more she's winning. Oh you thought you'd get her down with mental warfare bs? Pfff... nope. Together with her, We'll get 50k for charity ( I last I heard she had 28k ) AND we will get her to 1mil this year. Ultimately Dokibird already won against Nijisanji
i love how there are so many reactions and lawyers and talking head debating this or that is legal/illegal/questionable, but everyone universally agrees that this was an utter PR disaster, and it was entirely self inflicted by Niji
The comms theory sounds more and more correct each day. Niji EN either had something get terribly mistranslated or panicked from Doki's document that was sent to their legal team and shat the bed massively. The black stream, though, that's the part that puzzles me. It had been days. Doki had not released anything, she didn't go nuclear and air all the dirty laundry like they thought she would, she wanted to move on. I fail to imagine the disaster of a PR team that would think that thing was even a good idea on paper, much less actually going through with it. Which makes me believe in cliques more, and that either management was part of the clique or the theory that talents pulled double duty as management is correct. It does not seem like a logical decision, it seems very vindictive, personal and kneejerk-y to have talents come on and make asses of themselves by saying very fallacious things to try and come out looking better than a woman who tried to end her own life and decided to move on with it instead.
I think that the group behind that video had gone full lockdown mode on day one, and had been so focused on the document they had and what they thought was coming, that none of them stopped to properly look into Doki enough afterwards to realize that she was moving on and not going on the offensive. With nobody actually watching Doki for anything other than a "has she leaked anything yet" scan, the different landscape never clicked.
Totally agreed, Niji only had to not be so damn petty and just let her have her graduation. They would have their share of the massive graduation superchats, and Selen would be phased out gracefully. Could have been at least a semi-Win-Win for everyone other than fans...
She's already winning as long as Niji don't pursue her for some reason, she escaped what sounds like a bad employer, took her fanbase with her, gained a lot of positive attention, a great manager and only stands to profit from here, the damage caused to Niji is just a little bonus. There are wounds though, she'll never forget what she went through and has lost friends, the friends she does still have will be critical for her wellbeing, hopefully her part in this story is over now.
I'm glad we got input like this. One of the things people defending Niji have been saying is that Legal mindset isn't a Canadian or Japanese lawyer. So, now we do have an actual Canadian lawyer in agreement. And like he said it's interesting and impressive that even set against a billion dollar company Doki is the more savvy and competent one by far. I'm happy she's hit 600K and is well on her way to meet or surpass the subs she had before.
Im convinced anycolor's lawyers and nijien's legal team dont even talk to each other. The riku tazumi apology wasnt the best but it did what was required. But the en talents completely torpedoed it
People keep saying Selen (Doki) is slandering Niji. No, everything that can be considered slander towards Niji was said by Niji or their current employees. They did it to themselves.
Yeah, she's been incredibly careful with her wordings all along. What everyone got so mad about was all of the heavily implications of what Niji was saying. They made themselves look terrible.
Lawgolass is a solid dude and considering he's a Canadian lawyer and isn't sensationalizing the situation I'm far more inclined to believe his take is accurate with regards to the law.
How Nijisanji has reacted to this whole thing is textbook Japanese black company behavior. The internal culture in those places is all about punching down, enforcing a strict pecking order, and inflicting petty revenge. Even now, I can guarantee that their management continues to be utterly baffled by the fact that someone in a "lower position" is actually successfully fighting back. And because their rigid little minds can't accept this reality, they just keep digging their hole even deeper.
I do not get the remark about none of the legal commentators being on point. Every legal commentator I have heard has praised Doki's actions and have said she is reacting perfectly. What about this is not on point?
it actually helps that doki is just genuinely a nice person, i doubt they would have considered taking legal action in the first place unless it was absolutely necessary.
Runkle’s great and I’ve been following his coverage of the Jeanette Braun situation that he mentioned. He’s right; “let them tire themselves out” and “don’t kick the kitten.” Even if Doki doesn’t sue, her success with keeping and building an audience has been remarkable. She should be able to earn her $200,000 back and then some!
The big problem here is the timeline. As far as I know she had the breakdown, requested an amicable parting, was refused, sent her documents detailing the harassment and bullying. THEN Nijisanji fired her and made the whole thing public. Doki might be considered an employee under Japanese Labor Law and what the company did was very wrong on many levels. They did it all to themselves and I agree that Doki should not want this to go to court anywhere either, so I hope they settle out of court.
This is the best analysis i''ve never think of, usually the people are jump the shark and making court cases. But this time Doki just don't do it, she only gives neccessary informations guided by her lawyers, other than that she just streaming what she likes and gives zero sh*t what Niji/Niji defenders are ranting. Meanwhile, Niji/Niji defenders making things worse day by day, they played themselves by digging their own grave. Edit: It almost like Amber V Johnny all over again, Amber kept ranting/defending on social media, meanwhile Johnny patiently waited for that moment to strike down on her HARD.
Even if Anycolor didn't want to let Doki graduate, all they had to do was put out a statement that she was terminated due to "Unresolved contractual Issues" or something of that nature, then just STFU. Like say literally nothing, and they would have been just fine
With all the secrecy about who's really "leading" NJSJ EN, you can't help but wonder if this is the act of foolishness from JP management, or the vindictive attitudes of pseudo-management (EN). Horribly inept.
@@Spyduckbecause Andrew/Legal Mindset looked at the GURRAT, his conclusion is basically the same as mine: it's speculative, but it isn't baseless; it has its merits, while taking liberties to fill in the blanks it isn't outside the realm of possibility. TL;DR because Nijisanji/AnyColor was essentially too cheap to hire a full-time translator, they delegated that to any Liver who could speak Japanese, which in turn created a hostile work environment because the translators became power hungry.
@@ResidentWeevil2077 *Petra* is that translator and if you think this girl is power hungry bully, I'll laugh my arse off. This is in fact confirmed time and again, not a rrat. Girl was out of depth and just want college fund to study in Japan.
@@sumotony Different liver. Petra is relative inactive because student visa = maximum of 28 hours a week work. The accusation loaded against Elira isn't about translation at all, but how she took over management duties in herding the livers (because the managers are overloaded with work, too few of them exists in EN)
Yes I love this take! Nijisanji could have really escaped this turmoil had they not terminated Selen/Doki. By not replying to her for a month (essentially stealth suspending her), they set themselves up for failure. Assuming that what doki said was true that she sent the documents in February and afterwhich she was terminated then really you have to ask what in the world are in those documents which would compel a company to not only keep it for themselves but to keep the other person from destroying their image. There must have been pretty alarming stuff in it. Man I really hated how this ended. What saddens me most is the livers, they truly did not have to do it, they need not make a statement about it. It only implicated them more in this unstable times.
I guess that Doki's tragedy now become hype train for lawyers too. On other side, it will be very unfair if only peoples like Rev get boost in subscribers.
I think that very last point is why the NijiEN livers are suffering so badly right now as opposed to Doki. "Just be nice" is sometimes very good legal advice, and it's what Niji should have done. Second best legal advice is sometimes "keep your goddamn mouth shut," which several associated livers just did not do (whether or not they were strong-armed is immaterial, I'm just talking cause and effect here). They came across as just really f*cking mean, contrasting by Doki and Doki's lawyer's extremely polite and graceful statements on the issue. Even on stream, Doki kept her head on when it was all going down and just said "there's some shady stuff going on here, so my lawyer and I will have a statement about it. later." and continued on. The contrast I think is what's reallllllyyy fucking Niji and their associated Livers right now.
Remember how Cover handled things with Rushia? After they made the announcement of her termination she responded with her own version of events. Then Cover published a second statement saying: "We have read her statement, we disagree with it but respect her right to state her arguments and we won't communicate further on the matter". No slander, no low blows, no attempt to control public discourse. Keep it simple and quiet and deal with it further privately if needed.
This mess reminds me of when Funimation and Rooster Teeth fired Vic Mignogna, and when fans started asking questions, on the one hand RT did not supply further details or &^%$, and on the other Funimation let their VAs run their mouths, which escalated to shouted threats on Twitter -- not a good look. Which, even though the case ended up being misread by Judge Chupp, still ended up in a civil defamation case, which was not advantageous to Funimation. Similarly, Niji keeps on stepping in their own crap, while Doki goes on doing her own thing, and getting the best revenge there is, by _succeeding_ . It would be a clear celebration if Niji wasn't also dragging in their own talent. While some may be bullies as well, that's between them and those they're bullying to resolve, not the public. And I cannot abide by bullies. The only Niji talent I still follow is Scarle.
If someone had told me that two of my interests that seem so unrelated (Vtubing and gun law) would ever come together I'd have said they were crazy. Yet here we are and lawgolas is commenting on Dokibird. Love to my Lawtube Oshi and my Vtubing Oshi
Of course the Canadian recommends being nice. Niji doesn’t want an amicable dissolution of the Selen Tatsuki partnership because 2/3 of the original wave of EN leave soon after one another, including the most popular one, it really solidifies Niji as the joining PhaseConnect in the JV tier of EN Vtubers. Doki’s success actively hurts Niji’s reputation in a way that directly impacts their business model.
Doki chose what I would deem the “Tolkien tactic” where it goes upon the theme of how evil has a tendency to destroy itself. Let Niji be Niji’s undoing. Oh, and look at that that, Legolas is on my screen.
Its very funny, if Nijisanji just say "sry we fk up, hope Selen the best" and shut up, people will stop attacking sooner but they tried to cancel Doki with half ass evidence and just pouring the gas on fire
As noted by others in comments, no need for Niji to say anything public - shareholder explanation required for stockmarket disclosure, but as"something something STONKS". No need to apologise formally in english, but as kodama said Niji repeatidly calling in napalm strikes on Selen fans in ENGLISH (no confusion or mistranslation excuse for statements in ENGRISH) and used their own EN "talents" as meat shields.
I think you are partly right. If even half of what the guy legal mindset is right she would have a solid case. What she is doing right now is keeping all legal matters to herself and she said she's doing just that and because of that even if she has a case against them you'll never hear about from her end which will make her look better and land niji into more legal trouble.
"Legolas Got Isekai'd to Earth And Set Himself to be A Canadian Lawyer", should be a new light novel title
They're taking the Hobits to Canadian Court, Canadian Court... court court court? Sorry I forgot how the song goes.
Legolaws
He is a gun lawyer in Canada who also does leatherworking for fun. We gave him the nick name "lawgolas" years ago.
@@vagabondwastrel2361 Do not for get #wooddaddy
They are taking the lawyers to Canada!
Doki's lawyer: "Don't sue them, just stay low and let them destroy themselves"
Doki: "Aight"
Niji's lawyers: "OMG SHUT UP SHUT UP HOLY SHIT SHUT UP!!"
Niji: "...Nah"
I mean it could have been PR telling Legal to shut up. Assuming they even have a PR Team. The entire thing was sooo stupid. Like the thing with the "We're going to have Talent go on Doki's Stream to read a Scripted Attack that's supposedly from the Heart, that Contradicts previous statement." An then they see that made things worse, so they triple down by releasing a 2nd Official Statement that contradicts everything else!! An since it's all 100% public, it's GOING to be used against them in Court. LOL.
Then again...maybe they got a Lawyer like Alina, who said she'd rather be Pretty than Smart, because she can Fake being Smart. Lol.
Though I think a lot of this was interpreting Doki's actions consitently in the worst light. Like assuming she was going to release the document to the public, instead of wanting to work things out privately and legally.
Niji's lawyers were more like "look at these documents, anything you want to say while I'm off taking a nap?"
@@TheAyanamiReithere was a 2nd statement?
@@roaming_data their 2nd statement that contradicted their first was a tweet form their official Twitter. Aside from the ceo video
"What did the client say"
"Nothing"
"Gosh Darn Right They Said Nothing" 10/10, would represent again and again.
Imagine a world of lawyers reviewing their clients like this
@@fuzzybananasocks9396 I mean it's not just Lawyers. You have to have a good Client who is willing to be 100% honest and actually follow your advice. Lots of people will lie to their Lawyers and then the lawyer gets blindsided in court. That or people refuse to take advice from someone who has years of experience and it's their literal job.
What's crazy is watching how bad Niji was doing. Like it was OBVIOUS they should have shut up by the 1st Official Statement. Then their Scripted Attack backfired. An then the Dumb Asses went for a SECOND Official Statement, pouring on MORE Gas onto the fire, that contradicts shit that's ALREADDY been said!! An it's all 100% public so easily used against them in Court.
@TheAyanamiRei I mean what did theh expect from $8 lawyer LMAO. That company is so cheapskate that i cant see a way they pay the lawyer more then the bare minimum. And that is why whatever legal move they move felt so half as*ed I think. Also the comms reddit that say the miscommunication I think i believe it can definitely happen. Niji got the first move but it was so bad and with how people dont trust them it is the worse PR move ever. But i dont think they can get charge in court though
Man, this guy got fabulous hair AND is a lawyer.
Runkle is Legolaws.
Man looks like straight out of Ace Attorney game
Bro dont even need that lawyer's wig
Didn't know Lucius Malfoy was a lawyer. Was that why he was so rich in the Harry Potter books?
Why does that hair style remind me of ‘The Witcher’
Absolutely no need to go out of the way to defeat anycolor in court.
Just lay low, and if they dare to kick things up again, just calmly cover all bases and don't respond to anything that doesn't need to be responded to. PR-wise, there has already been a clear winner before this whole debacle even started.
Never interrupt your enemies when they are making a mistake. Honestly, Doki didn't even specify things, Niji just decided to escalated things.
Niji COULD have done things to make it less awful. Like NOT admitting they knew about her getting bullied and doing nothing. They could have said they'd do an investigation and take action. An when they saw people were NOT responding, they should NOT have had the Talents give an OBVIOUSLY SCRIPTED Audio Recording DURING Doki's Stream that was "From The Heart." Doubly so, when it Contradcited Previous Statements, AND when their statements AFTER contradicted THAT. Hell you would have thought after the 2nd time, they would have stopped pouring gas on the fire...
@@TheAyanamiReithat's it, Elira's vod just simply destroy the CEO apology, and if we compare Niji to Hololive Mel's graduation... bruh don't even try to compare
@@TheAyanamiReithe better way is just to either let her graduate peacefully, or still fire her but not disclosing anything and give her best wishes as good gesture
When you terminate someone just don't say anything specific at all. "We are terminating Selen Tatsuki at this time" And then follow up with merch, channel and so on...
But it feels like Nijisanji are mean teenage girls that need to get last word and one up the other side...
when Geralt choose the academic path. not a witcher
Just in case anyone tries to pull any misinformation here to slander the other lawyer.
Legal Mindset also confirmed that she was doing great and the best thing she could do is play defensive. And also, repeatedly stated that the best option for Doki was to NOT file a lawsuit. Because the cost, the time it would take, the stress. Everything would be horrible for a victory that would not be worth it. And that even if she DID have a good case, that there are hundreds of factors that could even make a strong case make you lose, or a weak case make you win. The best end result if a lawsuit is filed is to settle if you're not so hungry for a result that you are willing to undertake Multiple Years and Multiple Hundreds of Thousands of dollars of cost.
So both of them have the same answer. Don't sue, just be successful because Nijisanji screwed up, and Doki did great.
this right here, as another certain lawyer said...suing should be the mode of last resort for anyone.
As the saying goes, "If you aim for the king, you better not miss".
Yep, she's winning the PR battle by far, but Niji is still a JP company with lots more resources, a team of lawyers, and JP law is tilted towards corporations and employee obedience. If she fights this in Canadian law she might have a better chance, but again she has much less resources than they do. Just let the PR burn them alive while she succeeds on her own, and turns any attack against her into a PR boost for herself by simply being nice or neutral.
Also factoring in that her case is unique - Most people exit with very little post-life support, so they pretty much have to start out on their own from scratch with a lesser fanbase usually.
Doki on the other hand has so many avenues that are willing to bolster and usher her back to stardom. Hence she can afford to, and should just work on rebuilding her brand.
@@Spyducknot only her old fans, the internet have been united to support her.
I personally hope it's gonna be a good lesson for big corporation about how to handle their staff.
I do think LM's analysis on the laws involved are important just for context and to show just how bad of a company and what bad employment behavior Niji has been doing using Selen as the prime example alongside Zaion's experiences. You are correct that he's stated multiple times that Doki remaining silent will win at the end of the day and possibly a settlement from Niji's misbehaviors. It's one thing to theorycraft a suit and what each side has going for them, and another to actually go through with it. Doki and her lawyer are playing the smart game here.
I just want to say this lawyer hair is sooooo pretty im fucking jealous....
I love how people from way outside the fandom are starting to get into the shitshow that is Niji PR and legal team.
Well, technically, this makes whole new people enter the rabbit hole
would hire this guy just because of his hair...We are taking Dragoons to Isengard.
I would hire him to see how he does his hair for a court case. It would look cool contrasted with a suit lol
Someone said something that explained Niji's actions PERFECTLY! It was that at every turn, they interpreted EVERYTHING about Doki in the worst light. Like instead of reading "Hey we need to work this out legally OR ELSE I will make a Public Statement", they just assumed she was GOING to release a Public Statement, and TRIED to beat her to it. It's also that Niji has been EXTREMELY sloppy. Early vs Talent vs Late Statements from Niji have been CONTRADICTORY, which has ALSO made them look so much more SUS. IF instead of admitting they knew that she was getting bullied and did nothing, they said something like, "We're going to investigate this and take appropriate action" it would have looked MUCH better.
NOTHING about this seems like it was done with an Experienced PR and/or Legal Team. Like this was some SERIOUS Amateur Hour BS.
Even by Japanese wage slave standards Niji seem to want to double up the workload on the under-capable JP staff and "managers"
This. Absolutely this.
It's either amateur PR/Lawyer team, Manchild higher up, or because like one of the commenters said "difference in culture".
Most companies in Japan will throw someone under the bus even if it's not true, while in other countries will make the company look like a bully.
@@HowDo_IKnowBruh Except they didn't really do this nearly so much or as quickly. They also contradicted themselves multiple times too. That's not the work of someone acting logically.
Not even getting into the release of Merch with a Fired Talent. That was just the icing on the cake. Lmao.
@@TheAyanamiRei Most generous Black Company higher ups:
Niji EN PR team really has been one big example of "Why are you hitting yourself?"
"Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling... Makes no difference." - Geralt the Lawyer on Nijisanji, probably
we got Legolas Malfoy speaking facts over here
Neuvillette too
Of Rivia
Legolas Malfoy of Rivia, Minister of Fontaine.
Legolas G. (Geralt) Malfoy 😂😂
You killing me, I loling hard
Being a great lawyer also means knowing about PR.
Not really. There are a bunch of fields of lawyers that never interact with the legal system let alone clients that need pr advice.
Also Niji was exposed for being cheap, it wouldn't surprise me if they hire an undergraduate law student to be their lawyer
@@vagabondwastrel2361 If you're a Corporate Lawyer, then having at least a Basic Understanding of PR is ESSENTIAL.
@@vagabondwastrel2361Then, those people aren't great lawyers...
@@TheAyanamiReii mean this guy is not legal mindset, but firearm law lawyer still have basic PR sense to better bargain some cases
Niji could have avoided ALL of this if they let Doki graduate. Now, some of their talents might be investigated for reading documents that were supposed to go to legal ONLY.
The talents really should've just refused to do that stupid live stream.
Soo they basically shot themselves and their teammates in the foot
Doki/Selen raised that last january, from my interpretation she is not even asking for a graduation she was just asking for a "NEUTRAL" separation. Maybe just a notice that states both her and niji have mutually decided to part ways.
@@angelredvivar Wouldn't surprise me if Niji kept shooting itself in the foot until they only had stumps.
There's the Comms rrat which seems the likeliest where due to cultural differences, and them ghosting her, she sent a follow up to let them understand her position but they may have interpreted it as her saying she will release the information and they panicked into the black stream.
Also Legal Mindset looked through Japanese contractor and employee law about firing, one of the requirement for hostile termination is if the talent is adversarial to other talents. So character assassination on Zaion and Selene.
@@gitamic2287 Definitely character assassination against Doki, which did NOT fly for many fans.
Even Legal Mindset said that a lawsuit would not be the best option for Doki since she'll have to go to Japan for that.
The most that can be done is a settlement through Canadian court.
But like Grunkle, Legal Mindset also pointed out that Doki got the PR win in the bag. That she handled and represented herself way better than Niji with that blackscreen video and the "financially negligible" statement.
Yeah, maybe go for a settlement. Low risk option
I'm still baffled by how Niji has managed to screw up at every possible opportunity. I think they're finally learning to shut up.
yep they've been silent (for now), they sure learned it the HARD way from all the intense backlash and losses they incurred.
I have a guess: it's the difference between EN and JP culture. JP will try and bury a person with accusations, even if they're untrue.
If a company in the US and elsewhere did that in the public, the company be seen as the bully.
I think they finally wised up when the Elira/Vox/Ike "stream" blew up in their face and you can watch the chat turn on them in real time.
Yeah, looking at the niji en twitter account, It seems like they kept dead silent until Scarle's birthday (glad a universally loved member had a birthday first to let things cool off before Enna's), and now they're probably going to slowly ramp back up to normal. This is gonna hurt their growth a hell of a lot, especially since they already had a rough year in that regard, but I think they've finally learned to stop making it worse.
Honestly, the old PR team is probably out the door now, and I'm willing to bet this change only happened when they switch to an external PR firm to rescue them.
Yup, though vox elira and Ike being silent makes me suspicious still honestly
Talent of company does self harm as a result of possible internal bullying. Post-separation status: Alive and STONKS.
Company does self harm as a result of possible internal bullying. Post-separation status: Bleeding out and DUNKED.
He definitely does LOTR cosplay
J.R.R. Tolkien was inspired by this man. He was told by the soothsayer that this man would be born and become who he is, and Tolkien was merely telling this future using his novels
As was said by others, that's Legolaws Malfoy of Rivia.
First, we got Randy Pitchford chud twin, and now we've got Legalas, the sniper of books.
What a time we live in.
In many cases, the PR court is vastly more important than the legal court. In the court of PR, Doki won, and she won way before Niji even fired her. If the results of this fight are anything to go by, Niji needed Selen way more than Doki needed Niji. The most interesting thing is that Niji was the side that brought this into the court of PR in the first place so all this damage to their reputation is entirely self inflicted. You want to know how stupid this all is? We would have NEVER known about the harassment, or who the potential harassers were, if Niji just shut the hell up. Doki never made her allegations public and never intended to. All she ever did was respond to Niji and be the adult in the room while the company had a toddler meltdown.
Legal mindset also said that Dokibird shouldn’t sue, several times throughout his streams. Lawsuits are bad for people’s mental health and she’d be financially better off keeping the money streaming. Though you’d have to watch through the 7 hour streams to see that. But it’s interesting to look through the case as a legal hypothetical.
Still can’t believe they got Lucius malfoy to weigh in
Dokibird listened to her lawyer's advices really well 👏👏👏
Best legal advice: Just don't go to court man
I think this advice could have been worded better. It should be: Don't go to court unless there's no other legal remedy left to exhaust
"just say nothing."
The easiest, and at the same time, hardest thing to do.
Can't wait for the next time Hololive has an issue with a talent, and the mob switches back from "shut up" to "why aren't you providing all the dirt in 4K UHD?"
@@nope.0. Their track record says they will never dump dirt. That one holostars guy who just exited, Magni and Vesper, Mel, Rushia, Hitomi Chris; hololive will always have their mouths sealed shut.
Even Lucius Malfoy comment on this Drama
Doki is the bigger person, can't believe she handled it so well compared to a multi billion dollar company would handle it
Also didn't know Geralt become a lawyer in our world xD
Who would've thought that the best solution to all of this is to just "BE NICE"
In under 2 weeks Dokibird went from around 9k subs to over 612k & is setting up a 2nd charity stream.
Really, the more she focuses on doing her thing & ignoring Nijisanji the more she's winning.
Oh you thought you'd get her down with mental warfare bs?
Pfff... nope.
Together with her, We'll get 50k for charity ( I last I heard she had 28k )
AND we will get her to 1mil this year.
Ultimately Dokibird already won against Nijisanji
i love how there are so many reactions and lawyers and talking head debating this or that is legal/illegal/questionable, but everyone universally agrees that this was an utter PR disaster, and it was entirely self inflicted by Niji
Anyone with a functioning brain will understand this. Making livers represent the company is just dumb af.
@@liesandy291Or, if it really was their decision and nobody else made them do it, LETTING them.
@@liesandy291 They should have had their PR department (if they HAVE ANY, LOL) face the camera instead.
The comms theory sounds more and more correct each day.
Niji EN either had something get terribly mistranslated or panicked from Doki's document that was sent to their legal team and shat the bed massively.
The black stream, though, that's the part that puzzles me. It had been days. Doki had not released anything, she didn't go nuclear and air all the dirty laundry like they thought she would, she wanted to move on. I fail to imagine the disaster of a PR team that would think that thing was even a good idea on paper, much less actually going through with it. Which makes me believe in cliques more, and that either management was part of the clique or the theory that talents pulled double duty as management is correct. It does not seem like a logical decision, it seems very vindictive, personal and kneejerk-y to have talents come on and make asses of themselves by saying very fallacious things to try and come out looking better than a woman who tried to end her own life and decided to move on with it instead.
I think that the group behind that video had gone full lockdown mode on day one, and had been so focused on the document they had and what they thought was coming, that none of them stopped to properly look into Doki enough afterwards to realize that she was moving on and not going on the offensive. With nobody actually watching Doki for anything other than a "has she leaked anything yet" scan, the different landscape never clicked.
Totally agreed, Niji only had to not be so damn petty and just let her have her graduation. They would have their share of the massive graduation superchats, and Selen would be phased out gracefully. Could have been at least a semi-Win-Win for everyone other than fans...
She's already winning as long as Niji don't pursue her for some reason, she escaped what sounds like a bad employer, took her fanbase with her, gained a lot of positive attention, a great manager and only stands to profit from here, the damage caused to Niji is just a little bonus.
There are wounds though, she'll never forget what she went through and has lost friends, the friends she does still have will be critical for her wellbeing, hopefully her part in this story is over now.
I'm glad we got input like this. One of the things people defending Niji have been saying is that Legal mindset isn't a Canadian or Japanese lawyer. So, now we do have an actual Canadian lawyer in agreement. And like he said it's interesting and impressive that even set against a billion dollar company Doki is the more savvy and competent one by far. I'm happy she's hit 600K and is well on her way to meet or surpass the subs she had before.
Im convinced anycolor's lawyers and nijien's legal team dont even talk to each other.
The riku tazumi apology wasnt the best but it did what was required.
But the en talents completely torpedoed it
Yeah, I can't imagine the two videos from that day as possibly coming from the same team.
This guy is a Lord Of The Rings character who got reverse isekai'd to Earth disguising as a lawyer. 😅
A targaryen is even covering this, wow
damn what a goegeous hair
This case will be taught in universities
People keep saying Selen (Doki) is slandering Niji. No, everything that can be considered slander towards Niji was said by Niji or their current employees. They did it to themselves.
Yeah, she's been incredibly careful with her wordings all along. What everyone got so mad about was all of the heavily implications of what Niji was saying. They made themselves look terrible.
We don't even need torpedoes to sink the yacht. They scuttled the damn thing themselves.
Lucius Malfoy became a Canadian lawyer. :o
Lawgolass is a solid dude and considering he's a Canadian lawyer and isn't sensationalizing the situation I'm far more inclined to believe his take is accurate with regards to the law.
How Nijisanji has reacted to this whole thing is textbook Japanese black company behavior. The internal culture in those places is all about punching down, enforcing a strict pecking order, and inflicting petty revenge. Even now, I can guarantee that their management continues to be utterly baffled by the fact that someone in a "lower position" is actually successfully fighting back. And because their rigid little minds can't accept this reality, they just keep digging their hole even deeper.
I do not get the remark about none of the legal commentators being on point. Every legal commentator I have heard has praised Doki's actions and have said she is reacting perfectly. What about this is not on point?
it actually helps that doki is just genuinely a nice person, i doubt they would have considered taking legal action in the first place unless it was absolutely necessary.
Lawyer guy looks like a LOTR character.
Just "Shut up" would have been the case for niji. But nooooo they have been self reporting ever since this fiasco started.
Runkle’s great and I’ve been following his coverage of the Jeanette Braun situation that he mentioned. He’s right; “let them tire themselves out” and “don’t kick the kitten.” Even if Doki doesn’t sue, her success with keeping and building an audience has been remarkable. She should be able to earn her $200,000 back and then some!
I'm never hiring a lawyer if they don't have hair like him
If any legal stuff is involved best thing you can do is shut up
We have Lucius Legolas Malfoy as a lawyer😂😂
The big problem here is the timeline.
As far as I know she had the breakdown, requested an amicable parting, was refused, sent her documents detailing the harassment and bullying.
THEN Nijisanji fired her and made the whole thing public.
Doki might be considered an employee under Japanese Labor Law and what the company did was very wrong on many levels.
They did it all to themselves and I agree that Doki should not want this to go to court anywhere either, so I hope they settle out of court.
Doki wins by doing mostly nothing
Legolas?
I heard his old fans call him that, I myself and other tourists thought he's Malfoy 😂
Lawgolas
Legalas
This is the best analysis i''ve never think of, usually the people are jump the shark and making court cases. But this time Doki just don't do it, she only gives neccessary informations guided by her lawyers, other than that she just streaming what she likes and gives zero sh*t what Niji/Niji defenders are ranting.
Meanwhile, Niji/Niji defenders making things worse day by day, they played themselves by digging their own grave.
Edit: It almost like Amber V Johnny all over again, Amber kept ranting/defending on social media, meanwhile Johnny patiently waited for that moment to strike down on her HARD.
Even if Anycolor didn't want to let Doki graduate, all they had to do was put out a statement that she was terminated due to "Unresolved contractual Issues" or something of that nature, then just STFU. Like say literally nothing, and they would have been just fine
With all the secrecy about who's really "leading" NJSJ EN, you can't help but wonder if this is the act of foolishness from JP management, or the vindictive attitudes of pseudo-management (EN). Horribly inept.
@@Spyduckbecause Andrew/Legal Mindset looked at the GURRAT, his conclusion is basically the same as mine: it's speculative, but it isn't baseless; it has its merits, while taking liberties to fill in the blanks it isn't outside the realm of possibility. TL;DR because Nijisanji/AnyColor was essentially too cheap to hire a full-time translator, they delegated that to any Liver who could speak Japanese, which in turn created a hostile work environment because the translators became power hungry.
@@ResidentWeevil2077 *Petra* is that translator and if you think this girl is power hungry bully, I'll laugh my arse off. This is in fact confirmed time and again, not a rrat.
Girl was out of depth and just want college fund to study in Japan.
@@ZeroXSEED Is Petra = Elira because if so we found a Niji Defender chat.
@@sumotony Different liver. Petra is relative inactive because student visa = maximum of 28 hours a week work.
The accusation loaded against Elira isn't about translation at all, but how she took over management duties in herding the livers (because the managers are overloaded with work, too few of them exists in EN)
Yes I love this take!
Nijisanji could have really escaped this turmoil had they not terminated Selen/Doki. By not replying to her for a month (essentially stealth suspending her), they set themselves up for failure. Assuming that what doki said was true that she sent the documents in February and afterwhich she was terminated then really you have to ask what in the world are in those documents which would compel a company to not only keep it for themselves but to keep the other person from destroying their image. There must have been pretty alarming stuff in it.
Man I really hated how this ended.
What saddens me most is the livers, they truly did not have to do it, they need not make a statement about it. It only implicated them more in this unstable times.
This has got to be one of the most preventable PR disasters ever.
Imagine doki lawyer came up to anycolor HQ and just say " Better call Saul "
Yeah, the best advice ive ever seen a lawyer give someone is to just shut the hell up.
Man doki have the power of the Slytherin house with lucius malfroy backing her up
Dude literally said that "STOP BREAKING THE LAW, ASSHOLE!" from Liar, Liar is the best legal advice possible.
I guess that Doki's tragedy now become hype train for lawyers too. On other side, it will be very unfair if only peoples like Rev get boost in subscribers.
The answer is always so simple and easy:"Be Nice!" just it,but for Nijisanji en it's so damn hard to do.
Being nice is too hard. The other good answer is "shut up" but they didn't even manage this.
I think that very last point is why the NijiEN livers are suffering so badly right now as opposed to Doki. "Just be nice" is sometimes very good legal advice, and it's what Niji should have done. Second best legal advice is sometimes "keep your goddamn mouth shut," which several associated livers just did not do (whether or not they were strong-armed is immaterial, I'm just talking cause and effect here). They came across as just really f*cking mean, contrasting by Doki and Doki's lawyer's extremely polite and graceful statements on the issue. Even on stream, Doki kept her head on when it was all going down and just said "there's some shady stuff going on here, so my lawyer and I will have a statement about it. later." and continued on. The contrast I think is what's reallllllyyy fucking Niji and their associated Livers right now.
Malfoy become a wise man, respek
Remember how Cover handled things with Rushia?
After they made the announcement of her termination she responded with her own version of events. Then Cover published a second statement saying: "We have read her statement, we disagree with it but respect her right to state her arguments and we won't communicate further on the matter".
No slander, no low blows, no attempt to control public discourse. Keep it simple and quiet and deal with it further privately if needed.
This mess reminds me of when Funimation and Rooster Teeth fired Vic Mignogna, and when fans started asking questions, on the one hand RT did not supply further details or &^%$, and on the other Funimation let their VAs run their mouths, which escalated to shouted threats on Twitter -- not a good look. Which, even though the case ended up being misread by Judge Chupp, still ended up in a civil defamation case, which was not advantageous to Funimation.
Similarly, Niji keeps on stepping in their own crap, while Doki goes on doing her own thing, and getting the best revenge there is, by _succeeding_ . It would be a clear celebration if Niji wasn't also dragging in their own talent. While some may be bullies as well, that's between them and those they're bullying to resolve, not the public.
And I cannot abide by bullies. The only Niji talent I still follow is Scarle.
If one day this guy become a judge, he don't need to wear the judge wig. He can just do his hair.
He expressed he would never do the mistake of becoming a judge.
His goal is to become big enough on UA-cam that it finances pro bono law work.
@@UncleFanley Wow that's so cool! Gonna sub him right now
@@UncleFanley my full respect for that time to sub to them
Runkle!!!
If someone had told me that two of my interests that seem so unrelated (Vtubing and gun law) would ever come together I'd have said they were crazy. Yet here we are and lawgolas is commenting on Dokibird.
Love to my Lawtube Oshi and my Vtubing Oshi
Hear that 39iq? She did everything right.
Of course the Canadian recommends being nice. Niji doesn’t want an amicable dissolution of the Selen Tatsuki partnership because 2/3 of the original wave of EN leave soon after one another, including the most popular one, it really solidifies Niji as the joining PhaseConnect in the JV tier of EN Vtubers. Doki’s success actively hurts Niji’s reputation in a way that directly impacts their business model.
Doki and her lawyer read Sun Tzu. Don't interrupt your enemy while they are making a mistake.
i wonder if this particular case will go to the books of lawyer/PR students to study at as "one of the worse PR you can get"
LM state that this is a text book example and might/will go down to the textbook.
Doki chose what I would deem the “Tolkien tactic” where it goes upon the theme of how evil has a tendency to destroy itself. Let Niji be Niji’s undoing.
Oh, and look at that that, Legolas is on my screen.
Its very funny, if Nijisanji just say "sry we fk up, hope Selen the best" and shut up, people will stop attacking sooner but they tried to cancel Doki with half ass evidence and just pouring the gas on fire
More like repeatedly calling in napalm strikes on their own grid reference..
As noted by others in comments, no need for Niji to say anything public - shareholder explanation required for stockmarket disclosure, but as"something something STONKS". No need to apologise formally in english, but as kodama said Niji repeatidly calling in napalm strikes on Selen fans in ENGLISH (no confusion or mistranslation excuse for statements in ENGRISH) and used their own EN "talents" as meat shields.
39IQ must've been fuming when she realized that there isn't really an on-going case at all.
Winning without fighting. Just like her ancestors intended.
I think you are partly right.
If even half of what the guy legal mindset is right she would have a solid case.
What she is doing right now is keeping all legal matters to herself and she said she's doing just that and because of that even if she has a case against them you'll never hear about from her end which will make her look better and land niji into more legal trouble.
Is that your real hair color? Must be nice to have that kind of long and silver hair. I want to experience that too. 🖤
Since when did Legolas got isekai'd 😂😂😂
She already almost has her old sub count back. Wonder if anycolor learned their lesson yet
I had no idea Braco liked vtubers
Why is a Targaryen talking about Doki?
damn this thing is so big now even runkle talking about it. havent seen this guy since the AH trial
I look at his hair and all I can think of is A Song of Law and Drama
didn't know Geralt was Canadian
>proper health care
>canada
Uh...
dude looks like a targaryen
I can't believe Lucius Malfoy became a lawyer and is flabbergasted by how bad Niji is
Well, there was that time he became a commander in the Fire Nation navy, but that's another story.
Doki's Lawyer, Andrew, Runkle: "Don't fucking do it"
Doki: "Aight"
Niji Lawyers: "Don't fucking do it!"
Nijisanji: "I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that"
Meanwhile nijisanji's japan branch streams like nothing happened, laughing at selen. Idk if she can take another L
She has silver button (that Niji never send to their liver) and reaches 500k subscriber less than a month. I say she's living her dream.
A Targaryen Lawyer
We know Niji really fucked up when even Lucius Malfoy starts defending Doki
I hope Doki has enough money to buy a house in Vancouver now.
Funny joke
Interesting
0:55 Welcome to another episode of "Shut The Fuck Up Friday"