IMHO one term that often gets misused in this way is “gaslighting”. It’s supposed to describe the act of manipulating someone by making them doubt the evidence of their eyes and ears and think they’re losing their minds. However, it’s frequently used to describe absolutely any situation in which you tell someone they’re wrong. The problem with this wider definition is that, sometimes, people really are wrong - for example, they might accuse you of cheating when you did no such thing, or accuse you of being angry with them for no reason whilst conveniently omitting key details of what they did to you before you got angry.
Ok, I used to think gaslighting meant a person was trying to make you feel bad about something that you may or may not have done. Then I looked up the actual definition, I can see how the two can be mixed up in context. Kind of like how jealousy is used incorrectly when you should use envy. Maybe it's just easier to say instead of "This person is just trying to make me feel guilty, they must be jealous and trying to gaslight me."
In my personal experience, gaslighting has been much less obvious or up front. My ex used to berate me in front of people and make snide remarks about me to others, but when I'd be upset he would get emotional and tell me that I don't even know how I talk to him, that I put him down and I'm rude and embarrass him in front of people and I was so oblivious to how abusive I was. He would tell me people would pull him aside and tell him he didn't have to put up with my abuse because they had witnessed it. These are all things I had experienced, so I could connect with how horrible that felt and I started to wonder if I really even knew myself. This is just one example, but he would couch the gaslighting as trying to connect and improve our relationship
@@jannettb7930 I met a few people who have gone through something like that, is it really that hard to see what's going on? Maybe I'm just too good at sensing BS when I hear it so I never pay peoples attempts at the old guilt trips any attention.
@@quiteindeed6809 things like that often are built towards. Most commonly, someone in a relationship is the victim since they already trust the abuser. Alternatively, they could have a position of authority or the abusee some insecurity which makes them predisposed to doubt themself. Very, very often, a person who "falls for" gaslighting wouldn't have been able to prevent it regardless of how fine tuned their bullshit detector is. It's often fine tuned to pick at your insecurities, starts very small/innocent seeming, or is justified via alternative manipulation tactics (love bombing, in my experience) It's hard to imagine, but victims of abuse, indoctrination, and the like are not stupid or gullible. Anyone can fall for manipulation when it's targeted towards them. (Learning about manipulation and red flags and all that Jazz help prevent it tho)
As a staffman at an 8 week, sleepaway summer camp, we aren't allowed to set rules we can't explain. "because I said so" is dangerous when you are a child's ultimate authority, even if it is only for 8 weeks.
One day you'll have that very inquisitive kid that will ask "Okay... I can't run near the cliff because I could fall and die... But why can't you let me die ?" Some kids have a very sharp understanding of how far they can push such a logic until it falls back to a dogma or another :)
We didn't have this rule at my summer camp, but I tried to practice it anyway. Children can be smarter than we think. And if we tell them the reason and they don't understand, well, at least they know there's a reason. If we don't tell them, they are left with the impression you can make rules "just because."
In other words the staffers at your camp are better parents to other people's children than the majority of parents are to their own. I grew up with my own mother often telling me 'because I said so' or 'because I'm the mother' and at the time I didn't know why it would fill me with so much boiling rage. It (in part) drove a wedge between us that lingers in some aspect to this day.
Wife didn't want me watching these videos. Called Theramin a Narc. I'm sure I don't need to elucidate why she didn't want me watching them! It all clicked into place eventually. Thank you, TheraminTrees
I discovered Theramin after I got out of an abusive relationship, and he has helped me understand it and heal from it. I wish I had find his channel earlier, then I could have break free from that relationship way earlier!
Same. I left my situation far later than I should have, but without TheraminTrees I might never have got out-- or I might have been plagued with self-doubt after having escaped it.
The accommodating of those that willfully remain weak when they have a responsibility to step up tends to be on the left side of the political spectrum.
This reminds me of an instance where my emotionally manipulative mother threw the term “setting boundaries” at me after misunderstanding my tone in a text, despite her never having actually discussed what boundary she actually wanted to set with me and saying this shortly after rudely insulting me. She attempted to use this term against me because she heard me using the term to set boundaries with her so that I could maintain at least a shaky relationship with her. But my boundaries of protecting myself infringe on her desire to overstep, and she blew up at me. It feels slimy to hear your abuser throw the terms you use to heal back at you in such a twisted manner.
I saw in the notifications that someone replied here saying that their mom called them a monster when they were 7. I can relate, for 8 years of my childhood, I lived with my aunt and she would call me a monster and other such names. meanwhile she was the one who tried to strangle me and suffocate me on two separate occasions, and told me that if it wasn't haram, she would've killed me already. projecting at its finest.
My mother made the ironic claim that people are projecting things onto her. Yet that's exactly what she is doing. Locking her room while she is the one who was caught looking through my phone behind my back.
Other psychologists write books. This man is showing time and time again that you can demonstrate your knowledge to the world, and educate others, through more means than literature. Edit 2022-11-12: Changed phrasing to be more accurate. Thanks to Xavier X for pointing out the innaccuracies of the original statement (shown below) *Original Comment Text* Other psychologists write books. This man is showing time and time again that you can show your knowledge to the world through more means than literature.
I love the audiovisual medium because my day job is research and at some point I just can't focus on words anymore. Also, I have other mundane tasks to do other than to stare at a screen.
@@A_Box Yes! Somenof the best forms of media are movies, series, and animations. Telling stories with beautiful visuals, sound, and characters. It really leaves an imprint on your mind.
I think like most things ideas should be filtered with at least some discernment. It's important to remember that the algorithm that recommends videos and channels is programmed by people. But in the case of theramintrees his work is sublime. I'm currently extricating myself from theism after decades of floundering under its unbearable pressures, and this channel has helped me in incalculable ways over the course of mere weeks.
@@raminybhatti5740 It's... kinda not. The algorithm teaches itself, often to the point even its developers cannot understand how it works. But it (just) works.
Thank you so much. After a recent falling out over the phone with an abusive relative, they texted me to suggest we go to therapy together. I had a powerful, instinctive dread/revulsion to the idea--not to therapy in general, but to therapy with this person in particular--and I declined and requested a permanent end to all communication. I've been feeling guilty ever since because my logical brain keeps saying, "But if you DON'T go to therapy, you haven't tried EVERYTHING you could've tried and that's not fair to [my relative]!" But I just can't bring myself to do it, and I couldn't articulate why, until THIS video. This video resonates with me down to the bone because THIS is why I want to cut contact, why I don't want to keep trying to "repair" the relationship with my relative: They have weaponized therapeutic language and use it to pull a full-on DARVO. There's no sincere attempt at repair on their part, just more abuse. Thank you, thank you, thank you for this video. Watching it made me feel less insane, I can't even begin to describe the relief.
That's a common trick. My ex tried it with me too. It wouldn't be a genuine attempt at therapy on their part, it would be them throwing you under the bus and asking the therapist to fix you
The couple depicted in the “I dont have to explain myself” section hit me pretty hard. I was reminded of the scene from Cinderella when her wicked family members tore apart her dress gifted to her by her friends. The imagery of someone callously destroying things you love or eve use regularly hurts me so much, it’s such a powerful image. You’re excellent at staging and set design for accomplishing this.
Ah, now your comment hit me pretty hard. Once in a previous relationship my ex took my favorite pen and bent it into being ruined right in front of me while staring into my eyes smiling, with no provocation, for no reason. It's such a minor thing ruining a pen, but years later and that was small moment is a defining part of that entire years-long and very tumultuous relationship. i laugh at it in retrospect, but it's a bewildered laugh, something I just don't understand.
Or demeaning the movies, music, hobbies you like. Can be done very subtly. Not as obvious as outright destroying physical items you hold dear, but the same idea.
On more than one occasion my mother tore some of my clothes and threw things that belonged to me in the trash. Then she teased me for reacting. Sadly, I still live in my parents' house because I can't afford to live alone, but the quarantine and the pandemic have made everything much more difficult to bear. That image hit me pretty hard.
@@Bertiebaby That's an awful feeling, to realize somone you care about doesn't take your emotions serious. I used to be bullied like that in HS, guys would break all my stuff in front of me just for fun
*"Humans or Gods who refuse to explain themselves are entirely responsible for the judgments made about their destructive acts"* Mother of God... There´s an amazing story in that line... 20:44 Brilliant.
This is especially true when they are able to explain themselves, and when the acts are demonstrably destructive. Children frequently do things they shouldn't with an inability to explain themselves, due to lack of life experience and not yet having learned vocabulary for an explanation. This statement really applies more to adults (and to a lesser extent, older teens, though those too can be subject to new developmental behaviors they have yet to rein in) Furthermore, autistic people who do things that generally aren't destructive, or else are the consequences of a meltdown, can be made to feel they are inherently bad in a way that is explained as them being destructive - and sometimes, due to the systemic nature of the abuse heaped on autistic people, this can easily carry on well into adulthood before the person figures it out, same as it is with people who escape toxic relationships or cults. Autistic people can be gaslit into believing relatively harmless actions are destructive (a claim helped along by the attitudes perpetuated by some autism charities) when in reality they are just faux pas at worst and just unusual at best, and as for meltdowns - those are intense bursts of outward emotional expression that are impossible to rein in completely and, at best, can be redirected into not harming a specific thing. Those no more have a specific behavioral explanation than vomiting, diarrhea, or storms have. For meltdowns, if any demonstrable destruction is caused, amends do need to be made, but no more than they would be if you vomited on something (like, say, if you vomited on someone's nice carpet). As for faux pas, people need to recognize that they are just that - faux pas. Some of which can and maybe should be avoided and others which you might as well do anyway because the alternative is worse (i.e. not stimming when self-regulation is needed, or making eye contact simply because it makes other people feel better, both of which can have devastating consequences for autistic people, especially when done regularly). Of course, none of this applies if someone does something actually harmful, knowingly, and outside of a meltdown and with no attempts to mitigate unavoidable consequences. If what anyone, autistic or otherwise, falls into that category, the same rules apply as for everyone else. Same with other neurological conditions.
Humans are not god. Sorry!! That is not true information. As much as humanity hates hearing that, it is the truth. Humans are not God. Extraordinary proofs require extraordinary claims of which, humanity cannot provide.
@@adakadak1012 "Humanity"? Nah, only some narcissists would hate hearing that. Most people, religious or otherwise, don't view themselves in a god-like manner. There are certain cases, sure, but I wouldn't attribute what the minority feels when it comes to all of humanity.
your kind voice soothes some of the pain that childhood abuse has put inside me, thank you. It's nice to hear someone who doesn't glorify religious and parental abuse as being "education"
As a child, I was victim to various forms of abuse. From my stepfather, the church, even my peers. I was even involved in a child porn sex ring at the age of 4 years old. All these caused me to slowly put up a wall. And worse, as I became an adult, I became manipulative and even emotionally abusive towards my now ex. It wasn't my intention to become an abuser, and I didn't even realize it until my ex and I broke up. It brought the ugliest side of me out, in full display every time I looked in the mirror. I've been attempting to change literally everything about myself, mostly cognitive. Trying to heal my abuse, whilst simultaneously destroying the abuser within myself, and also seeking forgiveness. Your videos greatly help both goals of mine. Thank you for them. They mean a lot to me.
Yeah indeed, a victim can even become an abuser (this is a really viscous cycle) . As long ask you know that you become abuser and want to change into a better person, that's enough for a forgiveness from other. Cheer up and good luck on life, my dude.
I am sorry you went such incredible abuse and I commend your conviction to heal. Based on my experience and understanding, trying to destroy your inner abuser often backfires. There are other strategies to rehabilitate that part of yourself that may work. You might consider looking into things like Internal Family Systems, or pull a few tips from the way people with Dissociative Identity Disorder learn to heal and integrate their persecutors. DID folks also share histories of extreme child abuse so some other strategies of theirs might also resonate. Best wishes.
If you would like, you can check out Multiplicity and Me here on UA-cam, I learned about them recently and they seem to take a very healthy and science based approach to trauma healing.
@TheraminTrees I'm so glad you mentioned the necessity of making love conditional. I watched the Twilight series, and read the books. As a psychology major, I was aghast that the protagonist was made to be 'unconditionally and irrevocably' in love with the main male character. To me, 'unconditionally in love' means that the other person can do anything to the other person and they will be automatically forgiven. True love *is* conditional love because it demands equality for both partners.
In a way, I feel like Twilight serves as a pretty interesting commentary on the pitfalls of being compelled into unconditionally loving somebody. For the vampires, that compulsion is physical: the desire for human blood. Being a slave to your instincts and urges in a way that causes great emotional distress is an interesting way to frame the problem. The same could be said for the coercive emotional attachment of the werewolves in the form of imprinting. To have your very perception and emotional networks violently hijacked in a way outside of your control to fixate on another person is to be denied basic autonomy. Unfortunately, instead of truly caring about either of these forms of unconditional love being inflicted coercively on the characters, the story centers a woman who voluntarily chooses both. Whether this is a "female portrayal in media" problem or a "Stephenie Meyer is a bad writer" problem, I'll leave to you.
@@chrisdray5325 it's both. female portrayal in media _and_ Stephanie Meyer is a bad writer. I mean for the writing to be that terrible, it can't just be media influence, the author has a part to play in that very much so.
Ugh... ignorance about the subject if love is RIFE amongst this species, it's like you all yhink love is this little thing you can put in a box and tuck under your beds... real love is a choice, it is a way of life... Unconditional love does not mean i have to take your crap and still love you for it all, unconditional love means that i can love you but if you choose to treat me like crap, i have the freedom to step back out of range of your abuse. My son can be abusive and some days I DON'T LIKE him, but I will always LOVE him, and I have had to step back and away from his life so that I may remain safe. If he ever chooses to change his ways, I would be happy to re-enter his life, but for my own safety I must choose actions which protect myself, even tho everyday, I advise his handlers on what is best for him and what is not, all in a spirit of unconditional love. I love him unconditionally, but also from afar, and any other person who understands that principle would also agree with that philosophy... Love is putting another's needs before your wants...
@@leighatkins22 So why are you putting your wants of safety before your son’s needs of you catering to him ? Love 1) should be conditional (ie : earned and cultivated), 2) if unconditional, it shouldn’t be blind. Fortunately, you’re still part of the second category, but I really wonder what’s your basis for saying those people know nothing about love because they fit in the first category of people who don’t love (ie : care at least in thought for other people) unconditionally ? Why do you even love your son ? Because it’s your son ? Would you still love him if he had been forced upon you as say a neighbor you would’ve had to take care of ? Or a even a stranger you could only observe the behavior of ? If the answer to the latters is no, and the answer to the former is yes, can you even say you really love him ?
@@nathanjora7627 Firstly, anyone's safety is a need, regardless of how you like to frame it. Safety is listed as 1 of the 4 most basic needs of any human, along with nutritious food, clean water and shelter. These are not wants dopey... Secondly, I daresay, like many others these days, you have a very crippled and stunted view of love, which is typical of today's unhappy human, and the worst thing is that they think their view of love is "normal". You like to put love in a little box so you can feel more powerful than it, even tho you just don't understand it, and you are very typical now... sad... even your questions tell me you could never understand it. My neighbour hates me coz he doesn't know any other way to relate to ppl he doesn't know well, typical stunted human, but i don't hate him... my love for my fellow human is such that if his house was on fire and he was stuck inside, i would risk my own life to try to save his, and i know he still would never understand why i did it, and neither would you, coz you are all incapable of it.. so forget it okay?... My love is not blind, and I could explain to you what real love is til i was blue in the face, but your heart could never understand it, so... forget it... it's okay... just do ur best and get on with it... 😊
Nothing like seeing TheraminTrees upload on a nice calm Sunday. Thank you very much, love your content, it has helped me so very much. Your information and perspectives have helped me gain stronger cognitive abilities, being able to process and spot abuse and manipulation, and has eased my Religious Trauma. Thank you. Thank you.
If you need some assist on that, look up the folks from Recovering from Religion. They may be able to help. Be well, and welcome to a personal relationship with reality.
"I'm not responsible for your feelings." "But you *are* responsible for your actions!" Abusers and manipulators will use any words, ideas, systems of ideas to their advantage. Even those intended to be beneficial and therapeutic.
As always, this reaffirms my faith in therapy. I'm a barrister, and, when dealing with people trying to manipulate me in this way or discussing the kind of self-help literature you describe, I'm often told that I'm being "too literal" and that "this isn't a courtroom". But I make no apologies for arguing like a lawyer. The problem is that there is a reason why we lawyers are as nitpicky as we are - we want to understand, with crystal clarity, what the issue is or what the rules mean. Without that precision, the ground is made fertile for this kind of abuse whereby you can change the meaning of a term (e.g. "unconditional love") to make it mean what you want it to mean. My therapist ex would defend these self-help articles on the basis that the authors assumed you would apply "common sense" and that there were "obvious limits", but then switch back to the literal meaning when she wanted to beat me over the head.
@@metademetra I think it was more that she would use the strict, literal definition when it suited her but switch to a milder “within reason/common sense/obvious exceptions” definition when it didn’t. Basically, a motte and bailey fallacy
I'm a survivor of severe long-term child abuse. I hear you telling many aspects of my story in many different ways. It feels good to know that I'm not alone.
Coercive self-affirmation was demonstrated clearly when same-sex marriage was being legalized. LGBTQ folks wanted to equalize themselves. Opponents wanted to maintain a vertical dynamic... demanding LGBTQ forego equality to make opponents comfortable.
Yep, much of the discussion has just been about preserving special status over same-sex relationships hasn't it - while accusing those who've simply worked for equal status of pushing for special status.
the manipulative self-affirmation is being used right now. when parents are being told their child will commit sewcide unless they consent to them making irreversible and experimental changes to their developing body. you can't question it, you can't take a "wait and see" approach, you can't seek counseling, because you're being coerced into believing your kid will die and it will be all your fault.
@@TheraminTrees Sorry for the off-topic, but I can't thank you enough for this video, even though I'm just at the beginning of it, it's already so validating and restores so much! 🤍 After I was (emotionally and sexually) abused by a professional activist and self-proclaimed 'revolutionary' last year, who weaponizes the language of activism and mental health to justify abusing and manipulating targets in his private life, I realized that, even though he uses the exact same language/concepts as principled and kind activists, he communicates something entirely different that is self-serving and manipulative. To him, abuse is 'love', neglect is 'care', egoism is 'solidarity', exploitation is 'friendship', dehumanization is 'liberation', humiliation is 'respect', lack of accountability is 'boundary', rage is 'rationality', manipulation is 'communication', irresponsibility or cruelty (towards the victim) is 'self-care', sustaining the hurt and ignoring the infliction of pain/trauma is 'healing', injustice is 'resolution'. Misogyny means 'feminism' to him, entitlement means 'egalitarianism', theft (stealing from marginalized community members) equates to 'communalism', transactions are 'reciprocity', paternalism equals 'affection', ableism is 'concern', contempt is 'kindness', and 'healthy' is only that which accommodates the abuser and serves his needs. It has been quite traumatizing to witness him instrumentalize everything that has been dear to me in life, things like liberation and love, and use them for his selfish ends and to exploit and abuse vulnerable/marginalized/traumatized/young people who have (socially as well as individually) less power than himself. So much so that I've become wary of "the right language" or words that merely "sound good", but may imply something very dehumanizing. Thank you! Thank you for putting this video out. I feel like finally someone understands my despair.
@@TheraminTrees Rather generally, left wing politics seeks to create that lateral paradigm and right wing politics fights to keep and strengthen that vertical paradigm. (Not saying there can't be bad faith left wing political organizations, naturally, but the basic ideas map onto this idea).
Oh my God this is so relatable. Your boundary can't be "you can't hold me accountable!" No matter how much you tell them this, they still deploy this tactic. Better to just move on.
My mom now spends most of her free time watching vids on youtube about Narcissism, often misinformed or lacking in quality, which the youtube algorithm keeps feeding into her. She's often labilling me, my dad, and my brother narcissists every time we set boundaries or stand up for ourselves. Now that i discover these videos i find it creepy how much of the real criteria for narcissism she fits, specially the "double bind" mind games and infantilization.
Similar situation here. I used to believe I was a narcissist and an abuser. Though I was actually standing up for myself and being dismissed. My mother and father came from abusive homes. My grandfather was physically and mentally degrading to her as a child. I have to step back and think about the causes sometimes. She's not terrible just mind games as stated.
I think one major contributor to this problem is that self-help articles and videos on social media often lack the necessary details, caveats and qualifiers to make it clear that they are only talking about genuine abuse. Eg an article will say something like “withholding affection is a form of abuse” and then stop without making exceptions. Then, when you don’t feel like being affectionate with your abuser because they hurt you, they can point to this article and say “ha! See? You’re being abusive!”.
You should probably still search for a real therapist. Finding someone who works with you can be a long journey, but it's worth it in the end and can provide what you need when UA-cam videos aren't enough.
The horizontal vs vertical relationship orientation was brilliant, it explains so much where the same words can mean different things depending on the structure of the relationship. The description of how the concept of "unconditional love" gets distorted by abusive people was especially insightful and helpful to me personally. Thanks for sharing.
I've talked to a lot of therapists and one thing that I was told by pretty much all of them is that I will find closure by re-connecting with my family members that have been abusive towards me. Thank you for teaching me that I can find closure without permission from my abusers. It's especially difficult when the abuse that you've received is religiously justified and you live in a super religious state where most therapists believe the same supernatural nonsense as your abusers. I think it needs to be said that some therapists can perpetuate that same kind of abuse when they have ulterior motivations that they prioritize over their profession.
Check out the Reclamation Collective. You might be able to find some secular therapists. I’m sorry that this has happened to you, and it’s not uncommon. As an atheist therapist with religious trauma myself, I understand
My God they always say that. "They're your family, you need to love them" even as a child I was like. Are you high??? Oh yeah tell me I HAVE to put up with them, THAT makes up for a whole lot!!!
That sounds an awful lot like Utah. Natasha Helfer is a post-Mormon who's a therapist in Utah, using science-based therapeutic methods with her clients. She runs a practice with other like-minded licensed counselors.
I used to be an Irish-Catholic, and the guilt that was laid upon me was thick and oppressive. I couldn't even do anything for myself without feeling like I'd been slighting god somehow, especially anything that involved pleasure. Don't even get me started on how my transgenderism was taken- for quite a while I was afraid I would be disowned. Thankfully my parents were welcoming and open, but the threat of being disowned for who I was still sticks with me. I was brought up in the religion from birth, and it's chilling how much of your experience mirrors mine, despite being much different in age (I'm 32). Watching your videos has helped me realize how much I need to move forwards from that, and I'm working with my therapist now to start CBT with a specialist. The bit in this video about self-care really hit home, and I just thought you would like to know that even someone in recovery and active therapy can absolutely benefit from the thought experiments, anecdotes, and knowledge you share. I appreciate you and your work, and I can't wait to watch more in the future!
Yep. I'm an ex muslim but I relate so hard with those first few sentences. Even though I've renounced the religion, the guilt still won't leave.. Goodluck to you on your CBT journey!
oof, been awhile sense I've heard "unconditional love"... took me a long long time to realize that absolute no contact without "closure" was actually a happy ending to that chapter of my life.
I would still like to know his credentials and real identity for confirmation. This channel has a lot of potential and clearly many people feel helped, but there are still signs of an unhealthy para-social relationship in some comments and previous videos attracted a sordid sort of crowd that plagues "skeptic" channels of yesteryear.
@@snowballeffect7812 he depicts the popular church-goer’s image of God but doesn’t tackle the Hermetic principles of God that anyone spiritual is able to see. Abusers paint God as the above-you looking-down. His will is righteous! Enlightened folk see God right next to them. He could be a Mr. Miyagi with a twinkle in his eye and a knowing nod, or he could be the violent and anti-social Anton Chigurh from No Country for Old Men. Church goers see Anton as THE Satan to be eradicated; a select few see Anton as , the other sacred half in God’s image. Judaism in early antiquity used “satan” to mean “adversary.” Zoroastianism then convinced early Hebrews there was a good god and an evil god. Christianity’s mistake is dividing those concepts even further.
"non of us is owed love, either we inspire it in others or we dont." that is a hard truth for people to swallow and definitely goes against the dogma that's preached today by too many people. your a life changer theramin trees! :)
@@theorycompanies why do you label yourself as an autist? What is an autist? And what difference does it make what your labeled? And man i wrote that comment a year ago! I dont remember that at all! Im gonna watch this video again. Thanks for commenting and bringing my attention here! 😁
@@mrmeekcreices While I can't see Theory Force's comment, I may be able to help a bit! An autist is a term used to describe someone who is autistic (also phrased as "has autism" in some places). The label is important, as in many places, autism is misdiagnosed/under-diagnosed due to stupid reasons, such as getting good grades in school. Many therapists and perscribers use outdated information about autism, which lets people's prejudices get in the way. For example, one may say "you're too smart to have autism" or "you're not doing (a stereotypically autistic thing) so you don't have it". Autism, along with other neurodiversities such as ADHD, dyslexia, and others just means that our brains function differently than people without any of that! For example, some people struggle with facial cues/body language/tone in conversations, or struggle with sensory issues (such as lights being too bright, sounds being too loud, etc), or emotional disregulation, among others. These things can't really be "unlearned" or anything, they're a part of how our brains function. You may have heard of autism being a spectrum. It basically means that all autists are different, and autism can present differently in each individual. We all have our own unique ways of functioning! For example, one autist may struggle with detecting sarcasm in conversation. Another autist doesn't have this, but is still autistic due to other things! I hope this doesn't sound too convoluted, and makes sense!
I tend to find that statement a bit unfair. Saying that we are not “owed” love feels like we aren’t worthy or deserving of love. Love is a need, and when someone says “I don’t owe you love” it feels like that person is denying me or devaluing me of the most basic emotional human need
@@blankearth5840We should consider it an inherent truth that people deserve to be treated respectfully. Nobody is inherently unworthy of being loved. There is nothing intrinsically “wrong” with you that excludes you from that. Saying that no single person owes you their unconditional love does not mean that the first statement isn’t true.
One thing I find immediately striking about the topic of this video's intro is that a lot of the behaviors that we expect from abusers who use this logic can easily come about as a response to trauma. Not everyone who's seen some shit becomes an abuser, but the cycle of abuse is known about for a reason. Its because of this that we must take special care in our attempts to defend ourselves from others, because what is healing us now could cause us to decay with misuse.
There is a certain awareness that comes with surviving abuse and it should be what keeps you from repeating those mistakes. I guess some were traumatized too early or never fully healed and so they can't not continue the abuse. Abusers often like to turn it around and claim you are the abuser.. to the point where you internalize it. It's complicated..
Have not watched yet, but I’m sliding in early anyway I am a survivor of abuse, and your channel was one of the things that helped me realize that. Not recognizing or acknowledging abuse is unfortunately common among victims. You also helped me get out of my religion, which was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I’m the host of a DID system, and I speak for all of us when I say we are eternally grateful for what you do. We are slowly recovering, but your videos genuinely make a difference. I’m sure we aren’t the only ones.
is this person faking it? I seriously doubt real people with did go around advertising their disorder using buzzwords like "system" and referring to themselves as "we", the whole thing feels suspiciously performative.
@@Vitorruy1tbh mate you’re not helping anything, and the Reddit attitude towards systems won’t fly here. Casting doubt on anybody’s self-assertions is highly suspect, especially when those self-assertions are vital to the process of healing. -t. someone that decided to be a system
That's the trouble with labels and ideas - there's nothing stopping the worst kinds of people from getting mileage out of them just the same. I've been accused of DARVO in the past because I defended myself against lies and flatly identified them as such. From the perspective of backwards-land, that IS denying, attacking, reversing victim and offender...
The oldest trick in the book. If you're cheating, accuse the other of cheating. If you're committing war crimes, accuse the other of war crimes. If you're trying to cut your political opponents out of the conversation, accuse them... loudly and often of course, highly outraged by such behavior.
I like how you use a diverse cast of characters and don't simply play into labeling men as abusers and women as victims. It's important to recognize that abuse can come from people of all races, genders, and groups and videos like yours help people remember that we should never assume someone can't be abusive due to their background. Assumptions like this open up new avenues for abusers to exploit especially abuse from minorities to minorities which may go overlooked. Videos like this help us remember to hold all people accountable for their actions and helps dismantle dangerous stereotypes.
I recently found myself falling into the role of the abuser in this video. Luckily, I realized it before I pushed away the people I care about. I took a week of self-reflection, and when I returned I had the new mission of earning my friends' love rather than demanding it, and respecting their decisions for how much time they choose to spend on me or on other things. Before, I always felt unappreciated. Now, every word we exchange is precious, because it is voluntary.
This channel helped me end an abusive relationship that could've gone out of hand, and also helped me recover from past trauma of another abusive relationship. I'm forever grateful.
I once heard “embrace complexity, be sceptical of the simple” and I think this does have significance here. A lot of “self-care” ideals come from catchy simplistic phrases. I think looking through that and realizing that the abuser is repeating these simplistic phrases is the key to a healthy life.
I am a therapist in the US and love showing showing your videos to clients who are under the control of abusers. Thank you for your work, it's invaluable!
I just found your channel a little while ago, and it started me down the path to atheism (from christianity). This is the first video that came out after I found your channel, and I was super happy when i saw it. Keep up the great work!
Thank you for this video going threw the comments everyone says how they know an abuser who does this, i just wanted to thank you because i dont think i realised i have done some of these things to my son and i never thought what i was doin was abuse when it came to discipline. The thank you is for helping me to understand so i can be a better parent and person becuase all i want is the best for my son and you help me with my understanding so i can help him better. Thank you
There's a line in a song : "I'm nailed to your flaws You were my God" My past abusive relationship always felt like I was serving a God like figure. This video absolutely nailed that exact feeling.
Superb. Everyone probably deals with a narcissist, at least one, so I'd wager this helps anyone who watches it to identify the bizarro world abusers in their lives. Just one of many aspects covered in all of these incredible essays you have created. 10/10
25:57 You kept your word, and you have no idea how thankful I am for it. I will forever treasure and cherish your content for being a medium to communicate this message, and I hope that whoever needs to hear it manages just that.
A pleasure Annie - it was a perfect example to explore. I hope more people will stay firm like you did, strong in the knowledge they don't need their abuser's participation to heal!
I look forward to your videos with an equal measure of excitement and dread. Learning about yourself is uncomfortable, but necessary. Thanks for what you do.
Living with my narcissist dad and co dependent mom. Been angry at my mom and scared of my dad for a while now. I'm still in college, and can't see a way out. (I just needed to get this off my chest , smh I'm crying right now) I just wanted to say thank you Link. Your work here helps more than you could ever know. I have plans in the works to get out, but it's going to take long. I'm grateful to have found this channel.
I went back to live with my narcissist dad when I had no where else to go. Things started off well, until he got in trouble and then lost his job that was helping him coast, and things all went downhill from there. It was just us + his stepmom, who was cool, but she left quick- she knew better what was incoming, I think. I was very, very lucky I still had my car. I wouldn't have known or had any idea of what to do if I didn't. One night I told some friends, so that I could be sure of it, that if he scared me one more time I'd just leave. No where to go, no where to stay for certain. I figured it wouldn't be so fast, and of course, it was, and after changing all the locks and continually checking on me because I would talk in voice chat in whatever game I was playing, he slammed the door open and asked what I was doing (and then where I was getting money: friends and streaming, barely any anyway), and I said yep, that was it. After he went to bed (surprisingly he slept that night), I packed up everything into my Focus to include a computer, and my whole life basically, in about three hours, and drove off. I stopped in a parking lot at a mcdonald's after driving closer to my mom's house, and then called her and explained what happened. She suggested I call my great uncle, who I did, and they had a room for my late great grandparents who never really used it, and here I am today still trying to figure shit out. It was hard to leave. But once I left things worked out. I cannot just suggest you leave without knowing the consequence- I was ready to sleep in my car, if needed, and I seriously did not have anywhere to go (my mom's place is just too small and I don't want to bother them with that and my lil brother is autistic and needs the space). The point is that you need to weigh the seriousness of the situation with the consequences of simply ditching. I have other friends who actually have money they can use to go out on their own, saved up thousands, and still won't because they're either afraid of not knowing how to do everything or there are relatives they don't want to leave. Both are good reasons but both can't be helped by not figuring anything out. My dad is in prison again since after I left he broke into his sister's house and stole some shit or something, idk, I don't care. I guess the real point is there are always out, even if they seem like a scary choice, or otherwise, and without hurting oneself.
@Ray Andrew Good luck to you. I don't know your situation, but if you're in college it may be worth it to take whatever measures are available through your university to secure gainful employment (if career services are a thing where you are, for example). Financial independence is often an overlooked factor in these situations. Stay sharp and safe.
The bit about neglecting yourself for the abuser's needs: When I was a Christian, I one day realized the apparent meaninlessness of doing anything in this world that wouldn't help save people. After all, if there's an eternity of happiness, we should do everything in our power to get there, right? And any suffering here is reasonable as long as you win? Well, I went through a painful stage of doubt where I truly believed that if I died, I would go to hell because: I had committed what the Catholic Church considered a mortal sin - a sexual one - and the Catholic Church demanded confession for that. However, I was unable to go to confession becauee I wasn't confirmed, didn't take RCIA. So, what's the alternative? You honestly repent. But how do you know if you've truly repented? After all, my feeling of remorse surely wasnt big enough? This led me to constant fear and anxiety as I tried to appease God, disregarding my own mental health as I pushed myself to the limit while watching debates and reading about hell, etc, until I finally was freed primarily through this channel. I think I experienced trauma after all that. There were moments where I simply believed I couldn't rest my mind before I found answers, and sleep was my only escape. I tortured myself basically. Never again.
@@biblebot3947 Oh yeah, all kinds. For example: premerital sex, any type of contraception, masturbation, IVF, anything other than Heterosexual. This is supposedly because sex is holy and sacred and must not be violated in any way. And fyi, mortal sin is distinct from so called venial sin. It is believed when you comit mortal sin that you are separated from God and go to hell if you die in that "state."
@@etherealstars5766 I always thought of mortal sin as murder seeing as that’s the only example my religion books would bother telling me, so I didn’t expect something that wasn’t on that scale to be considered mortal.
@@biblebot3947 Right. That's the way I was when I was confident that I was fine. And then the sheer magnitude of hell for all eternity hit me. The way the Catholic Church works is it has a "magisterium" that interperts scripture and defines doctrine. And there's certainly phrases in the Bible that indicate these things. This is repeated multiple times in the bible: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God"
When I was a kid I caught myself always doing the same script with my grandmother - she would ask me to do something I did not want to, I would decline and then she would "get sad" and I just couldn't bear seeing her like that, so I would comply. This continued for a years, but at some point I started to see through her tricks, probably because she was one of the believers in the 2012 world end and when that didn't happen her and moms excuse just wouldn't cut it for me. So I started to have more and more discussions with her - all fruitless. Almost everyday I would argue and argue with her, desperately trying to finally understand her and for her to understand me. That also went on for years. But then... I discovered your channel, and it put a new light on everything, so many tactics, so many situations, now clear as day. Thanks to the new insight I was able to slowly realize that its okay to never have to understand her or for her to understand me and I was able to see all the deceptions and manipulations she used everyday. After some time I was even able to notice how she controlled me through my mom and sister, and how they were her tools who always supported her "because I don't want you to start another argument, so just do what she says". Now I had the mental strength to challenge her. Her loud yelling and guilt-trips had lost their effect on me and I knew how to stop her from intruding into my life with any real capacity. Now our relationship is cold and she almost never talks to me (even though we live in the same apartment). Just as I want :) Thank you so much, TheraminTrees P.S. How unhealthy is this perspective? :"my grandmother always starts a fit each time somebody tries to change anything in the apartment, so when I want to change something, I'll just go through the ritual of arguing until she has no energy left to argue and lie and I get what I want" because thanks to that perspective I don't fear conflict but at the same time, I really don't want to start applying that to anyone else.
@@zegmakker5869 tried that, it results in my family telling ME to stop since I don't pose a threat of conflict to them, so they think it's easier to "defuse" my wants rather than hers But if I argue and yell just as much as grandma then they see her as the one whose easier to "defuse" so they go against her, and she doesn't last long in an argument with 2 or more people against her. If this continues I might start to hate my family for being a bunch of spineless cowards, I hope that doesn't happen, although I definitely already lost my respect for them.
@@jones2277 yeah they were mostly reasonable. It was the emotinal blackmail to do reasonable things which was the bad part. Occasionally even the ask wasn't reasonable, or if I had come up with any alternative I proposed to do, in that case she ramped her tactics and played really dirty.
Reminds me of the “war on Christmas”. Just because some people use “happy holidays” instead of “merry Christmas” because they want to be more inclusive and acknowledge the existence of other religious traditions (as well as other festivities like Boxing Day, New Year, Epiphany), the dominant religion feels threatened. Not being reserved super special recognition is interpreted as oppression.
@@lxverdant1837 This logic is commonly used to justify treating people abusively, i.e. claiming that unequal treatment is fair due to some extenuating factor. That said, the context (as discussed in the video) can vary, but in terms of politics, this is used to justify plain prejudiced ideas.
It's probably just a coincidence, but the "I'm not responsible for your feelings!" amusingly enough seems to depict Jessica Jones and The Purple Man (who is literally responsible for her feelings).
I do not have the words to adequately express how this relates to my life and how much I value the videos you put out into the world, but I can say thank you. Your videos were an integral element of education for me that were crucial to my ability to critically analyze myself and my situation and ultimately break free from the dogmatically religious oppression I had endured for the majority of my life. I can only imagine the kind of lightning rod for bigotry and hatred you have become by disseminating the tools of oppression, manipulation and subjugation used by abusers so that people in situations like mine would be able to understand and subvert them. You have my heartfelt gratitude. As a side note, your visual representations have drastically improved from your early videos! Wherever you are and whatever you're doing, stay safe and be well.
Thanks. I'm glad the material on the channel has helped. In the early videos I was aiming for something specific and different - more anonymised toy-like stick figurines. I still have affection for that period. But giving more character and form became more satisfying.
You know you're still recovering from low self-worth when you read the title of this video and immediately feel guilty, wondering if YOU have actually been abusive by learning to stand up for yourself. And then you watch the video and feel relief because none of it describes your behavior.
Can't tell you how much your work has helped me and my own work as a therapist. Your videos are clear and informative and empower people to see the cycles they live in. Thank you!!
This video is incredibly timely. I'm in a group of people and this one individual keeps saying he's suffering from 'targeted abuse'. He was making jokes about slaves and we asked him to stop. I always appreciate your insight. I have learned many things from this channel over the years that have helped give me clarity in situations. Thank you.
Mental health professionals often misinterpret situations and unwittingly help abusers use the tactics mentioned in the video. I've seen this happen alot with teenagers who have abusive/manipulative parents. All too often mental health professionals automatically take the parents side. Maybe it's because teenagers are more hesitant to bring up the worst of what their parents do, they'll only complain about the trivial stuff, but parents are more likely bring up every little thing that they dislike about their kid and expect the mental health professional to fix it.
Always nice to see a Theramin post. It's harder to find opportunities to bounce topics and thoughts off of someone with more wisdom and experience than yourself (like a healthy child/parent relationship) as you get older and relatively more secluded. Appreciate that these topics manage to hit home so cleanly, and help _affirm_ feelings that were already felt, considered and thought about in my own time. You're no replacement for a parent and that's not at all what I was going for, but it's nice to have a response to a conversation we've never had. _Insert parasocial joke_
I've recently come to identify my parents as abusive and to be of corrosive personalities. They want me to tolerate their beliefs that just casually dehumanize me for being gay and convinced me to do the same for most of my life by indoctrinating me in the Mormon church from birth. I am on the verge of cutting ties with them for my mental health sake and its one of the hardest choices I've ever had to make. Your content has made this journey im on possible, I appreciate how accessible and digestible your videos are, when dealing with something as confusing as religious traumas, you need as much clarity you can get.
Just be who you are, and love who you want to love if it's mutual - and surround yourself with friends you can trust and vice versa. I know this is hard to do sometimes, especially if for example a whole town is ascribed to a certain religion; a friend of mine whose parents are jehovas witnesses threw him out after he said he was a non believer and mocked him and us, his friends for that. He got his own apartment, is working for it - he even did his masters degree last year. Staying in such abusive relationships as you described will only hurt you the longer you accept it. In his case, he was thrown out, and luckly for him it worked out. But sometimes abusers want to continue their abuse or "correct you" to their views on how you should be. In germany, my country, gay conversion therapies were legal until 2020 - so you can guess what religious people tried to do to their children if they were like you and they themselfs were highly religious
I feel you. Cutting ties with toxic family is one of hardest things to do. It's gut wrenching and painful and on top there's often a feeling of guilt and shame that eats you internally because the belief that they brought you into this world so you must love them no matter what. You often hear the message from church to "honor thy father and thy mother" which is another way the community adds shame and guilt if you can't love them unconditionally. My dad threatened to kick me out on the streets and said he should disown me because I no longer believe in God or the church and said I'm not allowed to talk to my brothers and sisters about anything I learn from the outside world and that I am his "enemy" sided with the devil. My family pretty much cut me off after I moved away and I never hear from them. So yeah either having to cut ties or being cut off stings like a knife in the chest. I hope you're doing well and taking care of your wellbeing. Hugs.
The healthier you get and the more you surround yourself with worthy, mature relationships the more you’ll realize that the people you left behind brought very little good into your life because they’re probably irretrievably broken. I think with family we mourn what might have been, ascribe positive characteristics to people because the truth is too painful. I’ve been there, and I wish you all the best. Don’t ever look back.
Mr. Trees, your graphics in this video are very wonderful, and they're straightforward but also really cinematic. This video is amazing! Thank you for your work :) youve inspired me to pursue psychology
I once had a physical caretaker for my disability say she was practicing “self care” and “setting boundaries” by neglecting my needs/her duties. It still messes with my head to this day.
Hi, I'm Italian. I started following your videos translated into Italian, on my son's advice, and now I translate them automatically. I am pleasantly surprised to see that there are people like you in the world, who confirm to me that I am not crazy when I find out that I think differently from most people. I've always been a little rebellious, and I've always defended my son from the very first days of school, when I saw teachers demanding from children, that they were all the same as soldiers. I was trying to protect my son, but with great difficulty, to avoid the abuse of other people, I myself was creating problems for my son, when I said no.n discuss with others and pretend that everything is fine. All so difficult in this world, where there is no honesty of the heart. I deeply love your videos that are helping me understand a lot of the things that I have inside my heart. Thank you ♥
This will certainly help me detect and defend myself against abuse tactics, but also to recognise my own abuse patterns that I might unknowingly engage in, so I can put an end to them
One of the fastest clicks I've done! Awesome to see some more content! Now that I finished watching, I want to thank you for a new tool I can use. I have seen this in a narcissist within my life of them using weaponized methods of self-affirmation as well.
Thank you so much. I couldn't put into words how I felt, therefore I thought my feelings were less valid. You showed the logic behind my frustration and now I am able to get rid of my self-doubt and feel right to have felt what I felt. The worst part about getting abused is questioning yourself.
My friend exhorted me to watch this latest upload, and I can tell why. I've only watched a few of your videos, and all are quite well explained and even illustrated. This video is beyond that, I'd say it's timeliest coverage over the foundational struggles of our zeitgeist. You truly explain the abuser/target dynamic so well that I wonder how many abusers will wake up to the abuse guiding their own desperation. Thank you. :D
These videos are invaluable, thank you so much for making them. You bring to light behaviors from my past relationships that I now understand in a different light and, yes, even make me realize things about my own behavior that I must improve to be the person I want to be.
Just getting in early here, have yet to watch the upload - wanted to say, i've watched your every upload multiple times and i know im not alone in saying I greatly appreciate what you do. So, thanks I hope to one day make videos of such refined insight and quality. *edit* Thank you for the '
TheraminTrees, I've been watching your videos for a few years now and they've had an unimaginably positive impact on my life. Your reasoning convinced me to abandon Christianity and start answering hard questions. Your videos helped me develop my skills at identifying and handling abusive situations, and your coming out video was a huge one for me. I got kicked out for 2 weeks when I came out as an atheist, but over the years my relationship with my mother has been slowly improving. You've taught me a number of life lessons nobody else cared to, and lead to several major changes in my life for the better. For that I am sincerely thankful.
This video has come at a perfect time for me, thank you. If y’all don’t mind me sharing my situation, as videos like these dig up a lot of pain... content warning for some pretty hideous behavior. My mom just invited me on a family vacation months after I’ve cut ties due to a horrendous amount of abuse/weaponized self-affirmation. Long story short, I live the farthest away from my hometown of all my family/siblings, so upon hearing suddenly that my grandfather was dying and could go any moment, I spoke with my closest friends about the idea of me bringing my loving partner with me for the seven hour trip and possibly multiple weeks stay. They all overwhelmingly agreed, especially when I told them that that was the only way I felt safe to go (vs driving hundreds of miles alone in a volatile emotional state). They were concerned for my mental state and my safety, first and foremost. Upon telling my mom that I was bringing her, however, my mom just. Refused. This was family-only, doesn’t matter if I got her a hotel room or not. She was not welcome. Upon explaining this was crucial for my safety, she accused me of all sorts of things, things she would later deny in an all too familiar bought of gaslighting. I was ostracized by my family as the days carried on in my hometown; I was told I was selfish, that I had violated my entire family’s needs, by having my girlfriend in the city, unseen and unheard of by them. I wasn’t even staying with her, I would visit her occasionally but stayed at my childhood home to be with family. When I was challenged, I’d calmly mention boundaries and putting my needs (like my SAFETY) first, and I was laughed at, mocked, ganged up on, told my therapist was only blowing smoke up my ass for telling me that, and that I was delusional, couldn’t possibly understand, I was told constantly that I didn’t have a grasp on reality, I was antagonized and belittled in ways I’d never had been because I had finally stood up for my boundaries for the first time in my young adult life... all this while spending eight or more hours a day by my wonderful grandpa’s bedside, never intending any of this to be about anyone but him. I would be antagonized viciously by one of my sibling while doing so. I was ignored at the funeral; they pretended not to see me (until I went up and expressed condolences to them because I was having none of that high school mean girl shit). Then being furious at my actions, I was kicked off the family insurance, the phone plan, I had my face mask taken from me before being kicked out on the side of the road in a random parking lot while my mom drove me to see my grandpa because I wouldn’t agree with her that I had made a huge mistake bringing my girlfriend, and they attempted to forcefully take my car, that had legally belonged to me for years. All while pushing the ideas of unconditional love for them and the importance of family. All while I lost my grandpa. And now they’re cheerfully inviting me to an island getaway after NOTHING was resolved (everytime I tried to have a level headed talk about it, they’d take my shit from me as before-mentioned, or start using wild, delusional ad homonym arguments that weren’t related, like refusing to acknowledge my valid critiques unless I told them my thoughts on abortion. No, it was never related, lmao). So yeah. No one gave a shit about my needs, and yet I somehow violated all of theirs (their words, I am not exaggerating for effect here), and now they’re the victim because I won’t come home and keep playing the polite happy daughter no matter what. THANK you for these videos. I watched them during that trip home and I will never stop watching them and working to heal with your words as long as you’re making them ♥️
You dared to step outside the oppressive family script and stand your ground - and this is the punishment we get as targets of family abuse for doing that. I know what you've written will all be nauseatingly familiar to many targets - it certainly describes many scenes in my own early life. Unthinkable acts of abuse - all mixed with messages of 'family love/loyalty' - followed by total amnesia and cheerful social invites. It's pure fragmented insanity. I used to call it the hall of mirrors. My brother and I have often noted that people really show you who they are when they believe they have power. You've seen who those people really are. What's great to hear is the love you have outside of that abusive group of people - the love of your girlfriend and close friends. I'm glad you have good people around you. I wish you strength and happiness in moving on with your life on your terms.
@@TheraminTrees I’m tearing up at your response, thank you for taking the time to say so. I am an enormous fan of your videos and listen and relisten all the time. The fact that your work is free to listen is un-f**king believable and I’m sure does an enormous world of good for so many. When I have a paying job again, I’d love to support you on Patreon; your work just means so much. Thank you thank you again for replying, made my day and made me glad I had the bravery to share my experiences ♥️
@@TheraminTrees I’d also like to add that you’re correct, I have a phenomenal found family here in St. Louis. They’ve changed my life in unimaginable ways just by being kind and being vulnerable when needed. My partner was horrified at the daily occurrences that were happening while we were in my hometown, and as a bleeding heart it weighed terribly on her too, but she tells me all the time that she’d do it a thousand times over if need be and has no regrets over being there. Just typing that I’m starting to cry again. I am extraordinary lucky and I only hope everyone else here can find something similar
I do not endorse the idea of unconditional love. And I don't see this as a bad thing. If a loved one needed my help to bury a body, for example, I would not help, and I'd cease to love that person.
It's not a choice you just make.. if it's genuine you can't just flick a switch. If there is a body to dispose of and not a very good explanation I would run for the hills as well. You can choose to end it but it's a long and painful process. If it isn't then you were never really invested imo.
I needed something to listen to while tackling the dish pile. What perfect timing! Thank you so much for addressing how abusers use "I can't control your feelings," and especially for providing a good response.
Last chapter, my Mom's phrase was "If we don't take care of this we'll have to do it in another life." Since, I'm clueless, (turns out to be a good defense) I had/have no idea what the unrepaired "this" was.
I really want to thank you for these videos. The only somewhat abusive relationship I had was the one I had with the roman catholic chruch by being born into it. I unilatterally ended it years ago, way before I had ever seen any of your videos, yet they helped me better process and by extension understand and justify (to both myself and others) my motivations for doing so. I had previously already understood much of what you cover but I couldn't really point out any specifics. For instance I would often rightfully recognize that some particular argument was being disingenuous or unfair but would be unable to point out why exactly that was the case. So your videos have helped me greatly in revisiting and analyzing what exactly was going on back then. (I was after all only around the age of 10 when most of this took place)
This has been very informative. I don't just see these play out in couples but even in politics where would be abusers on all sides use these concepts to claim victimhood in my opinion culturally this will water down the actual meaning to the point of people becoming indifferent to the very real suffering of others.
Was just watching some of your vids today before this popped up, good timing. One thing I think I've learned from watching your videos when it comes to abusers is to make sure we give them little to nothing to work with. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile, a bloody, messy, horrifying, decimating mile. And that includes granting them the affirmations described here. I think one minor affirmation (one that can be seen as an off-shoot of the "I'm not responsible for your feelings" affirmation) I can add is the phrase "It's just my opinion." It's one thing to say you didn't like a movie, one thing to say anyone who liked it have bad taste, it's another to say that anyone who liked it are evil people who need to be round up and killed...and mean it with every breath. A friendly reminder that just as others are entitled to their opinions so are we entitled to ours. So we are just as free to share our opinions on their point of view, no matter how negative it may be, after all it's just our opinion as well. As always, well done sir, will definitely be rewatching this in the future.
In time, could you make a video on the use of sex in abusive relationships? if you feel qualified it was really the crux of what i suffered through for 3+ years, the emotional side of it - her using the love as pretense to violate boundaries and both demand and expect affection without a foundation of respect. it ended on an extreme low involving betrayal - leaving the subject painful.. ..and in a world like this, obsessed with the topic, its really hard to enjoy any media at times because like a bombshell suddenly sex is the topic and it floors me there were so many cycles of a hollow mask of respect, that would slip away every chance she got to take a mile from an inch - leading to fights, apologies, promises, and a manipulated hope.. she had to fully betray the love i gave in confidence before comprehending its value. now im broken, dead in many many ways - and she wants to actualize the years of promises that were never backed by moment to moment action.. but im just drifting. I digress. the initial question was the point. thank you Mr. Trees
Keep reminding yourself that this person doesn’t represent everyone. Other people are different. There are things I enjoy which I sometimes find myself “checking myself” about. E.g. I question whether I should be enjoying binging on the Coen Brothers on a Saturday because person x from my past might think that was lame. I can’t even remember what this person used to say to subtly demean my interests, but the self-conscience reaction still persists years later. Normal people would love that I have favourite movies; they wouldn’t dream of putting a downer on that. Sorry for the poor analogy. Just trying to illustrate that a thing which was negatively affected in the bad relationship can exist anew in a healthy relationship. If you believe the person in the good relationship is a totally different person, then the sex, music, movies, food, travel, whatever it is, can be born again into the new world you share with the better partner. If that makes any sense.
You tried therapy my man? I found for my own abusive relationship I identified as an abused person and likewise tried to just get on with things and ignore how I felt after I got out of that situation. But the paradox is that only until you accept what you are, can you then become something else. For me, understanding the steps helped. Emotional blackmail by Susan Forward. It was a great resource. What you're describing sounds like a trauma bond.
@NihilistEnigma Brother, please whatever you do don't go to the redpill group, they prey on people like you to validate their own diminished self worth after going through a bad relationship. They have similar experiences, but they develop a harmful ideology(not rooted in reality) to cope with their condition. Therapy along with time heals a lot of things, wish you all the best.
@@NihilisticRealism Bro I don't want you to discuss anything for obvious reasons, just warning you that there are a lot of sadists on redpill communities who love kicking others when they're down, just don't listen to their banter. The sexism is pretty real. Everything will get better soon, just don't give up.
Sorry brother. What is meant by the last comment was to watch videos on "trauma bonding" Plus understand the different stages of emotional blackmail. - operates using fear, obligation, and/or guilt. - the abuser uses your hot buttons, which are your sensitivities that cause you to react reflexively. Like peace at any price or fear of anger. The predictable response let's them get the jump on you. - this hitbutton manipulation puts you in a fog that limits your ability to see into the future too. So you don't even realise this is happening to you Stay strong brother and I hope you feel the love.
Totally resonates. Thank you for this from an empath who's recovering from narcissitic abuse from family members and romantic partners who blamed and projected onto me. 💜
Is there a 'preventative medicine' against becoming an abuser? I think many people initially don't want to harm others, but they just don't realize that what they're doing is abusive. Eventually they habituate to expressing themselves in such ways, especially when they get feedback that it works, since manipulative tactics by definition have to be at least somewhat effective. You video "copying enemies" touches the subject, but only for people who have been victims themselves.
I'd love a video about it too, I have some narcissistic tendencies developed as a defense mechanism (over-loving myself so hate doesn't affect me), and I am afraid that that behavior of mine could spill onto others who never show hate
Brilliant question. I often nervously examine my own behavior looking for signs I've inadvertently become my father. I can never be sure. It would be really helpful to have some TT style insight. ❤
@@rhael42 Okay maybe not at first, but when people TELL them that they are behaving badly they just scoff and play the victim. These abusers have been TOLD what they are doing, but they don't care.
this channel is amazing. it showed me how i was victimized in my past and how i now also victimize others. videos like this give me a mirror with wich i can see myself for who i really am and how certian behaveiours that i display are distorted. @TheraminTrees for making content wich i can use as a mirror and to reflect on life.
Theramin, as someone who suffered from narcissistic abuse on behalf of my mother for years, your videos have truly been a massive aid alongside the therapy I am also getting. It's been a difficult journey but one that is surely not over yet. You helped me see the truth of my situation, and for that, I am forever grateful. Thank you for the work you put into these videos. I truly believe anyone who is experiencing similar situations can highly benefit from your insight. I feel indebted to you in some way, but I know that you will refuse to undertake such a baseless debt and be idolized in that manner, and it would be wrong of me to impose that. So until I can find better words than "thank you," know that I will be forever grateful and appreciative for your passion in discussing these difficult topics.
The thing about lateral vs vertical orientations, and how both sides see themselves as being oppressed, but only one is right, really reminds me of how certain members of majority groups behave when anyone attempts to level the playing field. They feel oppressed, not because they are being put beneath the minorities, but because the minorities wish to be on the same level as them, which they view as a challenge to their dominance.
"...only feeling fleeting experiences of worth when they fulfill the demands of other people." i don't think i've ever let myself feel good unless someone else has given that worth to me or given me the permission to feel good about myself. i never really knew how to put it into words before now. thank you.
The best parts of these videos for me, is that they give me an opportunity to reflect on my own actions. I have done things which I now release were abusive, thus I must make sure to both. - Recognise my own patterns and normalised trauma/abuse. - Assist in undoing the harm I've caused, which is a slow and difficult process, but an important one. Thank you always for your wonderful work.
Possibly the only type of unconditional love should be an unconditional love for oneself. Which then, of course, in the hands of the malignant narcissist, will then somehow magically result in conditions for others...
Incredible how everything you say resonates so well. It is incredibly empowering knowing I can put it into words thanks to you. Never stop doing what you are doing, this work is important.
![worshipping narcissists | qualiasoup & theramintrees [cc]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qjZ3f-IXEXU/mqdefault.jpg)
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IMHO one term that often gets misused in this way is “gaslighting”. It’s supposed to describe the act of manipulating someone by making them doubt the evidence of their eyes and ears and think they’re losing their minds. However, it’s frequently used to describe absolutely any situation in which you tell someone they’re wrong. The problem with this wider definition is that, sometimes, people really are wrong - for example, they might accuse you of cheating when you did no such thing, or accuse you of being angry with them for no reason whilst conveniently omitting key details of what they did to you before you got angry.
Ok, I used to think gaslighting meant a person was trying to make you feel bad about something that you may or may not have done. Then I looked up the actual definition, I can see how the two can be mixed up in context. Kind of like how jealousy is used incorrectly when you should use envy. Maybe it's just easier to say instead of "This person is just trying to make me feel guilty, they must be jealous and trying to gaslight me."
In my personal experience, gaslighting has been much less obvious or up front. My ex used to berate me in front of people and make snide remarks about me to others, but when I'd be upset he would get emotional and tell me that I don't even know how I talk to him, that I put him down and I'm rude and embarrass him in front of people and I was so oblivious to how abusive I was. He would tell me people would pull him aside and tell him he didn't have to put up with my abuse because they had witnessed it. These are all things I had experienced, so I could connect with how horrible that felt and I started to wonder if I really even knew myself. This is just one example, but he would couch the gaslighting as trying to connect and improve our relationship
@@jannettb7930 I met a few people who have gone through something like that, is it really that hard to see what's going on? Maybe I'm just too good at sensing BS when I hear it so I never pay peoples attempts at the old guilt trips any attention.
@@jannettb7930 I feel for you. I experienced this kind of manipulation in an online forum. Go figure :-/
@@quiteindeed6809 things like that often are built towards. Most commonly, someone in a relationship is the victim since they already trust the abuser. Alternatively, they could have a position of authority or the abusee some insecurity which makes them predisposed to doubt themself. Very, very often, a person who "falls for" gaslighting wouldn't have been able to prevent it regardless of how fine tuned their bullshit detector is. It's often fine tuned to pick at your insecurities, starts very small/innocent seeming, or is justified via alternative manipulation tactics (love bombing, in my experience)
It's hard to imagine, but victims of abuse, indoctrination, and the like are not stupid or gullible. Anyone can fall for manipulation when it's targeted towards them. (Learning about manipulation and red flags and all that Jazz help prevent it tho)
As a staffman at an 8 week, sleepaway summer camp, we aren't allowed to set rules we can't explain. "because I said so" is dangerous when you are a child's ultimate authority, even if it is only for 8 weeks.
One day you'll have that very inquisitive kid that will ask
"Okay... I can't run near the cliff because I could fall and die...
But why can't you let me die ?"
Some kids have a very sharp understanding of how far they can push such a logic until it falls back to a dogma or another :)
We didn't have this rule at my summer camp, but I tried to practice it anyway. Children can be smarter than we think. And if we tell them the reason and they don't understand, well, at least they know there's a reason. If we don't tell them, they are left with the impression you can make rules "just because."
@@nataliaborys1554 absolutely. Children are just small adults, they just believe in magic a little easier.
This is such a good idea that I'm disappointed I've never heard it before. Imagine if school was like this
In other words the staffers at your camp are better parents to other people's children than the majority of parents are to their own.
I grew up with my own mother often telling me 'because I said so' or 'because I'm the mother' and at the time I didn't know why it would fill me with so much boiling rage. It (in part) drove a wedge between us that lingers in some aspect to this day.
Wife didn't want me watching these videos. Called Theramin a Narc. I'm sure I don't need to elucidate why she didn't want me watching them! It all clicked into place eventually. Thank you, TheraminTrees
You're welcome
that how you know who your wife is
Man she was projecting hard lol, good riddance
theramin, you helped me out of an abusive situation that would've ruined my life, thank you brother
I second this!! If it wasn’t for Theramin I would still be in the same place I was 4 years ago
Same! These videos helped me wake up to the reality that I needed to get out of there and to find myself more as an individual.
I discovered Theramin after I got out of an abusive relationship, and he has helped me understand it and heal from it.
I wish I had find his channel earlier, then I could have break free from that relationship way earlier!
Congratulations on getting out of that situation! Also, nice profile pic haha!
Same. I left my situation far later than I should have, but without TheraminTrees I might never have got out-- or I might have been plagued with self-doubt after having escaped it.
"Instead of seeking personal growth, they expected the world to shrink"
And when the world is too small, everything disappear like a blackhole.
Exactly!! That stayed with me too!
Reminds me of today's society
Dawg that’s why he says in the description “the recent trend” you thought you did something
The accommodating of those that willfully remain weak when they have a responsibility to step up tends to be on the left side of the political spectrum.
This reminds me of an instance where my emotionally manipulative mother threw the term “setting boundaries” at me after misunderstanding my tone in a text, despite her never having actually discussed what boundary she actually wanted to set with me and saying this shortly after rudely insulting me. She attempted to use this term against me because she heard me using the term to set boundaries with her so that I could maintain at least a shaky relationship with her. But my boundaries of protecting myself infringe on her desire to overstep, and she blew up at me. It feels slimy to hear your abuser throw the terms you use to heal back at you in such a twisted manner.
I feel that last sentence. abusers calling you abusers.
I saw in the notifications that someone replied here saying that their mom called them a monster when they were 7.
I can relate, for 8 years of my childhood, I lived with my aunt and she would call me a monster and other such names. meanwhile she was the one who tried to strangle me and suffocate me on two separate occasions, and told me that if it wasn't haram, she would've killed me already. projecting at its finest.
My mother made the ironic claim that people are projecting things onto her. Yet that's exactly what she is doing. Locking her room while she is the one who was caught looking through my phone behind my back.
@@Flying_Spaghetti_Monster Thieves always lock their doors.
“You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means"
Other psychologists write books. This man is showing time and time again that you can demonstrate your knowledge to the world, and educate others, through more means than literature.
Edit 2022-11-12: Changed phrasing to be more accurate. Thanks to Xavier X for pointing out the innaccuracies of the original statement (shown below)
*Original Comment Text*
Other psychologists write books. This man is showing time and time again that you can show your knowledge to the world through more means than literature.
My dad criticizes me for leaning and getting information from UA-cam as if it isn't filled with valid in depth content like this..
I love the audiovisual medium because my day job is research and at some point I just can't focus on words anymore. Also, I have other mundane tasks to do other than to stare at a screen.
@@A_Box Yes! Somenof the best forms of media are movies, series, and animations. Telling stories with beautiful visuals, sound, and characters. It really leaves an imprint on your mind.
I think like most things ideas should be filtered with at least some discernment. It's important to remember that the algorithm that recommends videos and channels is programmed by people. But in the case of theramintrees his work is sublime. I'm currently extricating myself from theism after decades of floundering under its unbearable pressures, and this channel has helped me in incalculable ways over the course of mere weeks.
@@raminybhatti5740 It's... kinda not. The algorithm teaches itself, often to the point even its developers cannot understand how it works. But it (just) works.
Thank you so much. After a recent falling out over the phone with an abusive relative, they texted me to suggest we go to therapy together. I had a powerful, instinctive dread/revulsion to the idea--not to therapy in general, but to therapy with this person in particular--and I declined and requested a permanent end to all communication. I've been feeling guilty ever since because my logical brain keeps saying, "But if you DON'T go to therapy, you haven't tried EVERYTHING you could've tried and that's not fair to [my relative]!" But I just can't bring myself to do it, and I couldn't articulate why, until THIS video. This video resonates with me down to the bone because THIS is why I want to cut contact, why I don't want to keep trying to "repair" the relationship with my relative: They have weaponized therapeutic language and use it to pull a full-on DARVO. There's no sincere attempt at repair on their part, just more abuse. Thank you, thank you, thank you for this video. Watching it made me feel less insane, I can't even begin to describe the relief.
That's a common trick. My ex tried it with me too. It wouldn't be a genuine attempt at therapy on their part, it would be them throwing you under the bus and asking the therapist to fix you
@Rand Seems like you have put in a lot of work and is on the way to a much better life. Good luck, we've got your back.
Good luck onwards dude, things will get better
@@xerces27 Any therapist that can't spot that sort of bullshit from a mile away deserves to be permanently banned from practicing.
"That's not fair to [my relative]!"
"I missed the part where that's my problem."
The couple depicted in the “I dont have to explain myself” section hit me pretty hard. I was reminded of the scene from Cinderella when her wicked family members tore apart her dress gifted to her by her friends. The imagery of someone callously destroying things you love or eve use regularly hurts me so much, it’s such a powerful image. You’re excellent at staging and set design for accomplishing this.
Ah, now your comment hit me pretty hard. Once in a previous relationship my ex took my favorite pen and bent it into being ruined right in front of me while staring into my eyes smiling, with no provocation, for no reason. It's such a minor thing ruining a pen, but years later and that was small moment is a defining part of that entire years-long and very tumultuous relationship. i laugh at it in retrospect, but it's a bewildered laugh, something I just don't understand.
Or demeaning the movies, music, hobbies you like. Can be done very subtly. Not as obvious as outright destroying physical items you hold dear, but the same idea.
On more than one occasion my mother tore some of my clothes and threw things that belonged to me in the trash. Then she teased me for reacting. Sadly, I still live in my parents' house because I can't afford to live alone, but the quarantine and the pandemic have made everything much more difficult to bear. That image hit me pretty hard.
@@Bertiebaby That's an awful feeling, to realize somone you care about doesn't take your emotions serious. I used to be bullied like that in HS, guys would break all my stuff in front of me just for fun
@@twkotb can’t believe I didn’t make the connection until now
*"Humans or Gods who refuse to explain themselves are entirely responsible for the judgments made about their destructive acts"*
Mother of God... There´s an amazing story in that line... 20:44
Brilliant.
My science fiction setting was based on that concept, and a few other similar ones.
This is especially true when they are able to explain themselves, and when the acts are demonstrably destructive. Children frequently do things they shouldn't with an inability to explain themselves, due to lack of life experience and not yet having learned vocabulary for an explanation. This statement really applies more to adults (and to a lesser extent, older teens, though those too can be subject to new developmental behaviors they have yet to rein in)
Furthermore, autistic people who do things that generally aren't destructive, or else are the consequences of a meltdown, can be made to feel they are inherently bad in a way that is explained as them being destructive - and sometimes, due to the systemic nature of the abuse heaped on autistic people, this can easily carry on well into adulthood before the person figures it out, same as it is with people who escape toxic relationships or cults. Autistic people can be gaslit into believing relatively harmless actions are destructive (a claim helped along by the attitudes perpetuated by some autism charities) when in reality they are just faux pas at worst and just unusual at best, and as for meltdowns - those are intense bursts of outward emotional expression that are impossible to rein in completely and, at best, can be redirected into not harming a specific thing. Those no more have a specific behavioral explanation than vomiting, diarrhea, or storms have.
For meltdowns, if any demonstrable destruction is caused, amends do need to be made, but no more than they would be if you vomited on something (like, say, if you vomited on someone's nice carpet). As for faux pas, people need to recognize that they are just that - faux pas. Some of which can and maybe should be avoided and others which you might as well do anyway because the alternative is worse (i.e. not stimming when self-regulation is needed, or making eye contact simply because it makes other people feel better, both of which can have devastating consequences for autistic people, especially when done regularly).
Of course, none of this applies if someone does something actually harmful, knowingly, and outside of a meltdown and with no attempts to mitigate unavoidable consequences. If what anyone, autistic or otherwise, falls into that category, the same rules apply as for everyone else. Same with other neurological conditions.
Humans are not god. Sorry!! That is not true information. As much as humanity hates hearing that, it is the truth. Humans are not God. Extraordinary proofs require extraordinary claims of which, humanity cannot provide.
@@adakadak1012 "Humanity"? Nah, only some narcissists would hate hearing that. Most people, religious or otherwise, don't view themselves in a god-like manner. There are certain cases, sure, but I wouldn't attribute what the minority feels when it comes to all of humanity.
your kind voice soothes some of the pain that childhood abuse has put inside me, thank you. It's nice to hear someone who doesn't glorify religious and parental abuse as being "education"
As a child, I was victim to various forms of abuse. From my stepfather, the church, even my peers. I was even involved in a child porn sex ring at the age of 4 years old.
All these caused me to slowly put up a wall. And worse, as I became an adult, I became manipulative and even emotionally abusive towards my now ex.
It wasn't my intention to become an abuser, and I didn't even realize it until my ex and I broke up. It brought the ugliest side of me out, in full display every time I looked in the mirror.
I've been attempting to change literally everything about myself, mostly cognitive. Trying to heal my abuse, whilst simultaneously destroying the abuser within myself, and also seeking forgiveness.
Your videos greatly help both goals of mine. Thank you for them. They mean a lot to me.
Yeah indeed, a victim can even become an abuser (this is a really viscous cycle) . As long ask you know that you become abuser and want to change into a better person, that's enough for a forgiveness from other. Cheer up and good luck on life, my dude.
You can overcome. I was able to transform myself from toxic codependent. To solitary observant. Learning to enjoy life on different terms
Best of luck my guy. I hope (and trust) you learn to overcome your lesser qualities!
I am sorry you went such incredible abuse and I commend your conviction to heal. Based on my experience and understanding, trying to destroy your inner abuser often backfires. There are other strategies to rehabilitate that part of yourself that may work. You might consider looking into things like Internal Family Systems, or pull a few tips from the way people with Dissociative Identity Disorder learn to heal and integrate their persecutors. DID folks also share histories of extreme child abuse so some other strategies of theirs might also resonate. Best wishes.
If you would like, you can check out Multiplicity and Me here on UA-cam, I learned about them recently and they seem to take a very healthy and science based approach to trauma healing.
@TheraminTrees I'm so glad you mentioned the necessity of making love conditional. I watched the Twilight series, and read the books. As a psychology major, I was aghast that the protagonist was made to be 'unconditionally and irrevocably' in love with the main male character. To me, 'unconditionally in love' means that the other person can do anything to the other person and they will be automatically forgiven. True love *is* conditional love because it demands equality for both partners.
In a way, I feel like Twilight serves as a pretty interesting commentary on the pitfalls of being compelled into unconditionally loving somebody. For the vampires, that compulsion is physical: the desire for human blood. Being a slave to your instincts and urges in a way that causes great emotional distress is an interesting way to frame the problem. The same could be said for the coercive emotional attachment of the werewolves in the form of imprinting. To have your very perception and emotional networks violently hijacked in a way outside of your control to fixate on another person is to be denied basic autonomy.
Unfortunately, instead of truly caring about either of these forms of unconditional love being inflicted coercively on the characters, the story centers a woman who voluntarily chooses both. Whether this is a "female portrayal in media" problem or a "Stephenie Meyer is a bad writer" problem, I'll leave to you.
@@chrisdray5325 it's both. female portrayal in media _and_ Stephanie Meyer is a bad writer. I mean for the writing to be that terrible, it can't just be media influence, the author has a part to play in that very much so.
Ugh... ignorance about the subject if love is RIFE amongst this species, it's like you all yhink love is this little thing you can put in a box and tuck under your beds... real love is a choice, it is a way of life...
Unconditional love does not mean i have to take your crap and still love you for it all, unconditional love means that i can love you but if you choose to treat me like crap, i have the freedom to step back out of range of your abuse.
My son can be abusive and some days I DON'T LIKE him, but I will always LOVE him, and I have had to step back and away from his life so that I may remain safe. If he ever chooses to change his ways, I would be happy to re-enter his life, but for my own safety I must choose actions which protect myself, even tho everyday, I advise his handlers on what is best for him and what is not, all in a spirit of unconditional love.
I love him unconditionally, but also from afar, and any other person who understands that principle would also agree with that philosophy...
Love is putting another's needs before your wants...
@@leighatkins22 So why are you putting your wants of safety before your son’s needs of you catering to him ?
Love 1) should be conditional (ie : earned and cultivated), 2) if unconditional, it shouldn’t be blind.
Fortunately, you’re still part of the second category, but I really wonder what’s your basis for saying those people know nothing about love because they fit in the first category of people who don’t love (ie : care at least in thought for other people) unconditionally ?
Why do you even love your son ? Because it’s your son ? Would you still love him if he had been forced upon you as say a neighbor you would’ve had to take care of ? Or a even a stranger you could only observe the behavior of ?
If the answer to the latters is no, and the answer to the former is yes, can you even say you really love him ?
@@nathanjora7627 Firstly, anyone's safety is a need, regardless of how you like to frame it. Safety is listed as 1 of the 4 most basic needs of any human, along with nutritious food, clean water and shelter. These are not wants dopey...
Secondly, I daresay, like many others these days, you have a very crippled and stunted view of love, which is typical of today's unhappy human, and the worst thing is that they think their view of love is "normal". You like to put love in a little box so you can feel more powerful than it, even tho you just don't understand it, and you are very typical now... sad... even your questions tell me you could never understand it.
My neighbour hates me coz he doesn't know any other way to relate to ppl he doesn't know well, typical stunted human, but i don't hate him... my love for my fellow human is such that if his house was on fire and he was stuck inside, i would risk my own life to try to save his, and i know he still would never understand why i did it, and neither would you, coz you are all incapable of it.. so forget it okay?...
My love is not blind, and I could explain to you what real love is til i was blue in the face, but your heart could never understand it, so... forget it... it's okay... just do ur best and get on with it... 😊
Nothing like seeing TheraminTrees upload on a nice calm Sunday. Thank you very much, love your content, it has helped me so very much. Your information and perspectives have helped me gain stronger cognitive abilities, being able to process and spot abuse and manipulation, and has eased my Religious Trauma. Thank you. Thank you.
If you need some assist on that, look up the folks from Recovering from Religion. They may be able to help.
Be well, and welcome to a personal relationship with reality.
@@babsbylow6869 love them
"I'm not responsible for your feelings."
"But you *are* responsible for your actions!"
Abusers and manipulators will use any words, ideas, systems of ideas to their advantage. Even those intended to be beneficial and therapeutic.
As always, this reaffirms my faith in therapy.
I'm a barrister, and, when dealing with people trying to manipulate me in this way or discussing the kind of self-help literature you describe, I'm often told that I'm being "too literal" and that "this isn't a courtroom". But I make no apologies for arguing like a lawyer. The problem is that there is a reason why we lawyers are as nitpicky as we are - we want to understand, with crystal clarity, what the issue is or what the rules mean. Without that precision, the ground is made fertile for this kind of abuse whereby you can change the meaning of a term (e.g. "unconditional love") to make it mean what you want it to mean. My therapist ex would defend these self-help articles on the basis that the authors assumed you would apply "common sense" and that there were "obvious limits", but then switch back to the literal meaning when she wanted to beat me over the head.
Great comment! Therapy, to my mind, is exactly about that process you describe: drilling down into a situation with crystal clarity.
I'm not sure what it's like outside the US, but in the US the idea that a lawyers act in pursuit clarity would come as a surprise to many.
@@NDHFilms As in the rest of the world, with honourable exceptions.
Where your GF went wrong is that any psychologist worth their salt would tell you common sense is a terrible way to observe the world.
@@metademetra I think it was more that she would use the strict, literal definition when it suited her but switch to a milder “within reason/common sense/obvious exceptions” definition when it didn’t. Basically, a motte and bailey fallacy
I'm a survivor of severe long-term child abuse. I hear you telling many aspects of my story in many different ways. It feels good to know that I'm not alone.
I had a childhood along those lines and I also heard my story being told. It is powerful and empowering.
Your not alone 🌟
Coercive self-affirmation was demonstrated clearly when same-sex marriage was being legalized.
LGBTQ folks wanted to equalize themselves. Opponents wanted to maintain a vertical dynamic... demanding LGBTQ forego equality to make opponents comfortable.
Yep, much of the discussion has just been about preserving special status over same-sex relationships hasn't it - while accusing those who've simply worked for equal status of pushing for special status.
the manipulative self-affirmation is being used right now. when parents are being told their child will commit sewcide unless they consent to them making irreversible and experimental changes to their developing body. you can't question it, you can't take a "wait and see" approach, you can't seek counseling, because you're being coerced into believing your kid will die and it will be all your fault.
good points!
@@TheraminTrees Sorry for the off-topic, but I can't thank you enough for this video, even though I'm just at the beginning of it, it's already so validating and restores so much! 🤍
After I was (emotionally and sexually) abused by a professional activist and self-proclaimed 'revolutionary' last year, who weaponizes the language of activism and mental health to justify abusing and manipulating targets in his private life, I realized that, even though he uses the exact same language/concepts as principled and kind activists, he communicates something entirely different that is self-serving and manipulative.
To him, abuse is 'love', neglect is 'care', egoism is 'solidarity', exploitation is 'friendship', dehumanization is 'liberation', humiliation is 'respect', lack of accountability is 'boundary', rage is 'rationality', manipulation is 'communication', irresponsibility or cruelty (towards the victim) is 'self-care', sustaining the hurt and ignoring the infliction of pain/trauma is 'healing', injustice is 'resolution'.
Misogyny means 'feminism' to him, entitlement means 'egalitarianism', theft (stealing from marginalized community members) equates to 'communalism', transactions are 'reciprocity', paternalism equals 'affection', ableism is 'concern', contempt is 'kindness', and 'healthy' is only that which accommodates the abuser and serves his needs.
It has been quite traumatizing to witness him instrumentalize everything that has been dear to me in life, things like liberation and love, and use them for his selfish ends and to exploit and abuse vulnerable/marginalized/traumatized/young people who have (socially as well as individually) less power than himself. So much so that I've become wary of "the right language" or words that merely "sound good", but may imply something very dehumanizing.
Thank you! Thank you for putting this video out. I feel like finally someone understands my despair.
@@TheraminTrees Rather generally, left wing politics seeks to create that lateral paradigm and right wing politics fights to keep and strengthen that vertical paradigm. (Not saying there can't be bad faith left wing political organizations, naturally, but the basic ideas map onto this idea).
Dont forget the "it hurts me when you tell me how much I hurt you! We need boundaries where you dont put me down and belittle me!"
Oh my God this is so relatable. Your boundary can't be "you can't hold me accountable!" No matter how much you tell them this, they still deploy this tactic. Better to just move on.
Seriously underrated channel
Totally Agreeeee!
I'd not say underrated, but unknown by most.
Comments, likes, and word of mouth is a great way to bring this gem to others.
i wish vids like this had millions of views. mental health all day
My mom now spends most of her free time watching vids on youtube about Narcissism, often misinformed or lacking in quality, which the youtube algorithm keeps feeding into her. She's often labilling me, my dad, and my brother narcissists every time we set boundaries or stand up for ourselves. Now that i discover these videos i find it creepy how much of the real criteria for narcissism she fits, specially the "double bind" mind games and infantilization.
Similar situation here. I used to believe I was a narcissist and an abuser. Though I was actually standing up for myself and being dismissed. My mother and father came from abusive homes. My grandfather was physically and mentally degrading to her as a child. I have to step back and think about the causes sometimes. She's not terrible just mind games as stated.
I think one major contributor to this problem is that self-help articles and videos on social media often lack the necessary details, caveats and qualifiers to make it clear that they are only talking about genuine abuse. Eg an article will say something like “withholding affection is a form of abuse” and then stop without making exceptions. Then, when you don’t feel like being affectionate with your abuser because they hurt you, they can point to this article and say “ha! See? You’re being abusive!”.
I can not express how much you helped me, more than any other therapist I personally talked to
You should probably still search for a real therapist. Finding someone who works with you can be a long journey, but it's worth it in the end and can provide what you need when UA-cam videos aren't enough.
The horizontal vs vertical relationship orientation was brilliant, it explains so much where the same words can mean different things depending on the structure of the relationship. The description of how the concept of "unconditional love" gets distorted by abusive people was especially insightful and helpful to me personally. Thanks for sharing.
I've talked to a lot of therapists and one thing that I was told by pretty much all of them is that I will find closure by re-connecting with my family members that have been abusive towards me. Thank you for teaching me that I can find closure without permission from my abusers. It's especially difficult when the abuse that you've received is religiously justified and you live in a super religious state where most therapists believe the same supernatural nonsense as your abusers. I think it needs to be said that some therapists can perpetuate that same kind of abuse when they have ulterior motivations that they prioritize over their profession.
Check out the Reclamation Collective. You might be able to find some secular therapists. I’m sorry that this has happened to you, and it’s not uncommon. As an atheist therapist with religious trauma myself, I understand
My God they always say that. "They're your family, you need to love them" even as a child I was like. Are you high??? Oh yeah tell me I HAVE to put up with them, THAT makes up for a whole lot!!!
That sounds an awful lot like Utah. Natasha Helfer is a post-Mormon who's a therapist in Utah, using science-based therapeutic methods with her clients. She runs a practice with other like-minded licensed counselors.
I used to be an Irish-Catholic, and the guilt that was laid upon me was thick and oppressive. I couldn't even do anything for myself without feeling like I'd been slighting god somehow, especially anything that involved pleasure. Don't even get me started on how my transgenderism was taken- for quite a while I was afraid I would be disowned. Thankfully my parents were welcoming and open, but the threat of being disowned for who I was still sticks with me. I was brought up in the religion from birth, and it's chilling how much of your experience mirrors mine, despite being much different in age (I'm 32). Watching your videos has helped me realize how much I need to move forwards from that, and I'm working with my therapist now to start CBT with a specialist. The bit in this video about self-care really hit home, and I just thought you would like to know that even someone in recovery and active therapy can absolutely benefit from the thought experiments, anecdotes, and knowledge you share. I appreciate you and your work, and I can't wait to watch more in the future!
Yep. I'm an ex muslim but I relate so hard with those first few sentences. Even though I've renounced the religion, the guilt still won't leave.. Goodluck to you on your CBT journey!
Man your story really hit me hard but holy fuck the acronym CBT has just been stained permanently.
@@karhu7581 What does "CBT" mean?
@@wildoo9870 cock and ball torture, a sexual fetish involving, well...
@@wildoo9870 Cognitive behavioral therapy.
oof, been awhile sense I've heard "unconditional love"... took me a long long time to realize that absolute no contact without "closure" was actually a happy ending to that chapter of my life.
Same here. We got lucky.. even if it didn't seem like it at the time.
Great psychology content, finally someone who doesn't feel predatory, like they'll force their book on people in need
He has a patreon account for people who want to support him but I don’t think he ever mentions it.
I would still like to know his credentials and real identity for confirmation. This channel has a lot of potential and clearly many people feel helped, but there are still signs of an unhealthy para-social relationship in some comments and previous videos attracted a sordid sort of crowd that plagues "skeptic" channels of yesteryear.
@@snowballeffect7812 he depicts the popular church-goer’s image of God but doesn’t tackle the Hermetic principles of God that anyone spiritual is able to see.
Abusers paint God as the above-you looking-down. His will is righteous!
Enlightened folk see God right next to them.
He could be a Mr. Miyagi with a twinkle in his eye and a knowing nod,
or he could be the violent and anti-social Anton Chigurh from No Country for Old Men.
Church goers see Anton as THE Satan to be eradicated; a select few see Anton as , the other sacred half in God’s image.
Judaism in early antiquity used “satan” to mean “adversary.”
Zoroastianism then convinced early Hebrews there was a good god and an evil god.
Christianity’s mistake is dividing those concepts even further.
You're a bright light in the darkness.
"non of us is owed love, either we inspire it in others or we dont." that is a hard truth for people to swallow and definitely goes against the dogma that's preached today by too many people. your a life changer theramin trees! :)
As an autist, this is heart breaking for me.
@@theorycompanies why do you label yourself as an autist? What is an autist? And what difference does it make what your labeled? And man i wrote that comment a year ago! I dont remember that at all! Im gonna watch this video again. Thanks for commenting and bringing my attention here! 😁
@@mrmeekcreices While I can't see Theory Force's comment, I may be able to help a bit! An autist is a term used to describe someone who is autistic (also phrased as "has autism" in some places). The label is important, as in many places, autism is misdiagnosed/under-diagnosed due to stupid reasons, such as getting good grades in school. Many therapists and perscribers use outdated information about autism, which lets people's prejudices get in the way. For example, one may say "you're too smart to have autism" or "you're not doing (a stereotypically autistic thing) so you don't have it". Autism, along with other neurodiversities such as ADHD, dyslexia, and others just means that our brains function differently than people without any of that! For example, some people struggle with facial cues/body language/tone in conversations, or struggle with sensory issues (such as lights being too bright, sounds being too loud, etc), or emotional disregulation, among others. These things can't really be "unlearned" or anything, they're a part of how our brains function. You may have heard of autism being a spectrum. It basically means that all autists are different, and autism can present differently in each individual. We all have our own unique ways of functioning! For example, one autist may struggle with detecting sarcasm in conversation. Another autist doesn't have this, but is still autistic due to other things! I hope this doesn't sound too convoluted, and makes sense!
I tend to find that statement a bit unfair. Saying that we are not “owed” love feels like we aren’t worthy or deserving of love. Love is a need, and when someone says “I don’t owe you love” it feels like that person is denying me or devaluing me of the most basic emotional human need
@@blankearth5840We should consider it an inherent truth that people deserve to be treated respectfully. Nobody is inherently unworthy of being loved. There is nothing intrinsically “wrong” with you that excludes you from that. Saying that no single person owes you their unconditional love does not mean that the first statement isn’t true.
I like how calming his voice is
One thing I find immediately striking about the topic of this video's intro is that a lot of the behaviors that we expect from abusers who use this logic can easily come about as a response to trauma. Not everyone who's seen some shit becomes an abuser, but the cycle of abuse is known about for a reason. Its because of this that we must take special care in our attempts to defend ourselves from others, because what is healing us now could cause us to decay with misuse.
There is a certain awareness that comes with surviving abuse and it should be what keeps you from repeating those mistakes. I guess some were traumatized too early or never fully healed and so they can't not continue the abuse. Abusers often like to turn it around and claim you are the abuser.. to the point where you internalize it. It's complicated..
Have not watched yet, but I’m sliding in early anyway
I am a survivor of abuse, and your channel was one of the things that helped me realize that. Not recognizing or acknowledging abuse is unfortunately common among victims. You also helped me get out of my religion, which was one of the best things that ever happened to me.
I’m the host of a DID system, and I speak for all of us when I say we are eternally grateful for what you do. We are slowly recovering, but your videos genuinely make a difference. I’m sure we aren’t the only ones.
@Ww Ww it’s in the dsm5 as a recognized dissociation disorder. They don’t have to explain anything to you, Google is at your disposal
is this person faking it? I seriously doubt real people with did go around advertising their disorder using buzzwords like "system" and referring to themselves as "we", the whole thing feels suspiciously performative.
@@Vitorruy1tbh mate you’re not helping anything, and the Reddit attitude towards systems won’t fly here. Casting doubt on anybody’s self-assertions is highly suspect, especially when those self-assertions are vital to the process of healing.
-t. someone that decided to be a system
That's the trouble with labels and ideas - there's nothing stopping the worst kinds of people from getting mileage out of them just the same. I've been accused of DARVO in the past because I defended myself against lies and flatly identified them as such. From the perspective of backwards-land, that IS denying, attacking, reversing victim and offender...
The oldest trick in the book. If you're cheating, accuse the other of cheating. If you're committing war crimes, accuse the other of war crimes. If you're trying to cut your political opponents out of the conversation, accuse them...
loudly and often of course, highly outraged by such behavior.
I like how you use a diverse cast of characters and don't simply play into labeling men as abusers and women as victims. It's important to recognize that abuse can come from people of all races, genders, and groups and videos like yours help people remember that we should never assume someone can't be abusive due to their background. Assumptions like this open up new avenues for abusers to exploit especially abuse from minorities to minorities which may go overlooked.
Videos like this help us remember to hold all people accountable for their actions and helps dismantle dangerous stereotypes.
I recently found myself falling into the role of the abuser in this video. Luckily, I realized it before I pushed away the people I care about. I took a week of self-reflection, and when I returned I had the new mission of earning my friends' love rather than demanding it, and respecting their decisions for how much time they choose to spend on me or on other things. Before, I always felt unappreciated. Now, every word we exchange is precious, because it is voluntary.
Glad you woke up. Proper adults have the mindset to earn rather than demand.
This channel is an example of the awesome content UA-cam should promoting
"Healthy love is love with boundaries." Simple and brilliant.
This channel helped me end an abusive relationship that could've gone out of hand, and also helped me recover from past trauma of another abusive relationship. I'm forever grateful.
"Instead of attempting personal growth, they expect the world to shrink" I love this guy so much
I once heard “embrace complexity, be sceptical of the simple” and I think this does have significance here. A lot of “self-care” ideals come from catchy simplistic phrases. I think looking through that and realizing that the abuser is repeating these simplistic phrases is the key to a healthy life.
I am a therapist in the US and love showing showing your videos to clients who are under the control of abusers.
Thank you for your work, it's invaluable!
I just found your channel a little while ago, and it started me down the path to atheism (from christianity). This is the first video that came out after I found your channel, and I was super happy when i saw it. Keep up the great work!
Thank you for this video going threw the comments everyone says how they know an abuser who does this, i just wanted to thank you because i dont think i realised i have done some of these things to my son and i never thought what i was doin was abuse when it came to discipline. The thank you is for helping me to understand so i can be a better parent and person becuase all i want is the best for my son and you help me with my understanding so i can help him better. Thank you
There's a line in a song :
"I'm nailed to your flaws
You were my God"
My past abusive relationship always felt like I was serving a God like figure. This video absolutely nailed that exact feeling.
Superb. Everyone probably deals with a narcissist, at least one, so I'd wager this helps anyone who watches it to identify the bizarro world abusers in their lives. Just one of many aspects covered in all of these incredible essays you have created. 10/10
We just had 4 yesrs of an abuser playing the victim.
25:57 You kept your word, and you have no idea how thankful I am for it.
I will forever treasure and cherish your content for being a medium to communicate this message, and I hope that whoever needs to hear it manages just that.
A pleasure Annie - it was a perfect example to explore. I hope more people will stay firm like you did, strong in the knowledge they don't need their abuser's participation to heal!
I look forward to your videos with an equal measure of excitement and dread. Learning about yourself is uncomfortable, but necessary. Thanks for what you do.
Living with my narcissist dad and co dependent mom. Been angry at my mom and scared of my dad for a while now. I'm still in college, and can't see a way out. (I just needed to get this off my chest , smh I'm crying right now) I just wanted to say thank you Link. Your work here helps more than you could ever know.
I have plans in the works to get out, but it's going to take long. I'm grateful to have found this channel.
Peace and strength
I went back to live with my narcissist dad when I had no where else to go. Things started off well, until he got in trouble and then lost his job that was helping him coast, and things all went downhill from there. It was just us + his stepmom, who was cool, but she left quick- she knew better what was incoming, I think.
I was very, very lucky I still had my car. I wouldn't have known or had any idea of what to do if I didn't.
One night I told some friends, so that I could be sure of it, that if he scared me one more time I'd just leave. No where to go, no where to stay for certain. I figured it wouldn't be so fast, and of course, it was, and after changing all the locks and continually checking on me because I would talk in voice chat in whatever game I was playing, he slammed the door open and asked what I was doing (and then where I was getting money: friends and streaming, barely any anyway), and I said yep, that was it.
After he went to bed (surprisingly he slept that night), I packed up everything into my Focus to include a computer, and my whole life basically, in about three hours, and drove off. I stopped in a parking lot at a mcdonald's after driving closer to my mom's house, and then called her and explained what happened. She suggested I call my great uncle, who I did, and they had a room for my late great grandparents who never really used it, and here I am today still trying to figure shit out. It was hard to leave. But once I left things worked out. I cannot just suggest you leave without knowing the consequence- I was ready to sleep in my car, if needed, and I seriously did not have anywhere to go (my mom's place is just too small and I don't want to bother them with that and my lil brother is autistic and needs the space).
The point is that you need to weigh the seriousness of the situation with the consequences of simply ditching. I have other friends who actually have money they can use to go out on their own, saved up thousands, and still won't because they're either afraid of not knowing how to do everything or there are relatives they don't want to leave. Both are good reasons but both can't be helped by not figuring anything out.
My dad is in prison again since after I left he broke into his sister's house and stole some shit or something, idk, I don't care. I guess the real point is there are always out, even if they seem like a scary choice, or otherwise, and without hurting oneself.
@Ray Andrew Good luck to you. I don't know your situation, but if you're in college it may be worth it to take whatever measures are available through your university to secure gainful employment (if career services are a thing where you are, for example). Financial independence is often an overlooked factor in these situations. Stay sharp and safe.
The bit about neglecting yourself for the abuser's needs: When I was a Christian, I one day realized the apparent meaninlessness of doing anything in this world that wouldn't help save people. After all, if there's an eternity of happiness, we should do everything in our power to get there, right? And any suffering here is reasonable as long as you win? Well, I went through a painful stage of doubt where I truly believed that if I died, I would go to hell because: I had committed what the Catholic Church considered a mortal sin - a sexual one - and the Catholic Church demanded confession for that. However, I was unable to go to confession becauee I wasn't confirmed, didn't take RCIA. So, what's the alternative? You honestly repent. But how do you know if you've truly repented? After all, my feeling of remorse surely wasnt big enough? This led me to constant fear and anxiety as I tried to appease God, disregarding my own mental health as I pushed myself to the limit while watching debates and reading about hell, etc, until I finally was freed primarily through this channel. I think I experienced trauma after all that. There were moments where I simply believed I couldn't rest my mind before I found answers, and sleep was my only escape. I tortured myself basically. Never again.
Catholics believe in sexual mortal sin?
@@biblebot3947 Oh yeah, all kinds. For example: premerital sex, any type of contraception, masturbation, IVF, anything other than Heterosexual. This is supposedly because sex is holy and sacred and must not be violated in any way. And fyi, mortal sin is distinct from so called venial sin. It is believed when you comit mortal sin that you are separated from God and go to hell if you die in that "state."
@@etherealstars5766 I always thought of mortal sin as murder seeing as that’s the only example my religion books would bother telling me, so I didn’t expect something that wasn’t on that scale to be considered mortal.
@@biblebot3947 Right. That's the way I was when I was confident that I was fine. And then the sheer magnitude of hell for all eternity hit me. The way the Catholic Church works is it has a "magisterium" that interperts scripture and defines doctrine. And there's certainly phrases in the Bible that indicate these things. This is repeated multiple times in the bible: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God"
@@etherealstars5766 Yes, all that crap. Tell them next time to read Joshua 7 in the unedited version.
So much for 'standards' of their God then.
When I was a kid I caught myself always doing the same script with my grandmother - she would ask me to do something I did not want to, I would decline and then she would "get sad" and I just couldn't bear seeing her like that, so I would comply. This continued for a years, but at some point I started to see through her tricks, probably because she was one of the believers in the 2012 world end and when that didn't happen her and moms excuse just wouldn't cut it for me. So I started to have more and more discussions with her - all fruitless. Almost everyday I would argue and argue with her, desperately trying to finally understand her and for her to understand me. That also went on for years.
But then... I discovered your channel, and it put a new light on everything, so many tactics, so many situations, now clear as day. Thanks to the new insight I was able to slowly realize that its okay to never have to understand her or for her to understand me and I was able to see all the deceptions and manipulations she used everyday. After some time I was even able to notice how she controlled me through my mom and sister, and how they were her tools who always supported her "because I don't want you to start another argument, so just do what she says".
Now I had the mental strength to challenge her. Her loud yelling and guilt-trips had lost their effect on me and I knew how to stop her from intruding into my life with any real capacity. Now our relationship is cold and she almost never talks to me (even though we live in the same apartment). Just as I want :)
Thank you so much, TheraminTrees
P.S. How unhealthy is this perspective? :"my grandmother always starts a fit each time somebody tries to change anything in the apartment, so when I want to change something, I'll just go through the ritual of arguing until she has no energy left to argue and lie and I get what I want" because thanks to that perspective I don't fear conflict but at the same time, I really don't want to start applying that to anyone else.
I think it's better to just ignore your grandmother when she starts a fit. Or maybe, if you want to be more passive aggressive, yawn in her face.
@@zegmakker5869 tried that, it results in my family telling ME to stop since I don't pose a threat of conflict to them, so they think it's easier to "defuse" my wants rather than hers But if I argue and yell just as much as grandma then they see her as the one whose easier to "defuse" so they go against her, and she doesn't last long in an argument with 2 or more people against her.
If this continues I might start to hate my family for being a bunch of spineless cowards, I hope that doesn't happen, although I definitely already lost my respect for them.
Oh... you're the first other person I've seen who did the "argue and argue with abuser trying to get them to understand" thing...
what kind of stuff was she asking you to do? was it reasonable? like clean your room or wash the dishes? take out the trash?
@@jones2277 yeah they were mostly reasonable. It was the emotinal blackmail to do reasonable things which was the bad part.
Occasionally even the ask wasn't reasonable, or if I had come up with any alternative I proposed to do, in that case she ramped her tactics and played really dirty.
When someone is accustomed to expecting special treatment, fairness (in their mind) feels like oppression.
Exactly. The only people who will mind your boundaries when you start to have them are the ones that benefited most when you didn't.
Reminds me of the “war on Christmas”. Just because some people use “happy holidays” instead of “merry Christmas” because they want to be more inclusive and acknowledge the existence of other religious traditions (as well as other festivities like Boxing Day, New Year, Epiphany), the dominant religion feels threatened. Not being reserved super special recognition is interpreted as oppression.
This is such a loaded statement.
@@ninjaassassin27 How so?
@@lxverdant1837 This logic is commonly used to justify treating people abusively, i.e. claiming that unequal treatment is fair due to some extenuating factor. That said, the context (as discussed in the video) can vary, but in terms of politics, this is used to justify plain prejudiced ideas.
It's probably just a coincidence, but the "I'm not responsible for your feelings!" amusingly enough seems to depict Jessica Jones and The Purple Man (who is literally responsible for her feelings).
Smile...
I do not have the words to adequately express how this relates to my life and how much I value the videos you put out into the world, but I can say thank you. Your videos were an integral element of education for me that were crucial to my ability to critically analyze myself and my situation and ultimately break free from the dogmatically religious oppression I had endured for the majority of my life.
I can only imagine the kind of lightning rod for bigotry and hatred you have become by disseminating the tools of oppression, manipulation and subjugation used by abusers so that people in situations like mine would be able to understand and subvert them. You have my heartfelt gratitude.
As a side note, your visual representations have drastically improved from your early videos! Wherever you are and whatever you're doing, stay safe and be well.
Thanks. I'm glad the material on the channel has helped. In the early videos I was aiming for something specific and different - more anonymised toy-like stick figurines. I still have affection for that period. But giving more character and form became more satisfying.
You know you're still recovering from low self-worth when you read the title of this video and immediately feel guilty, wondering if YOU have actually been abusive by learning to stand up for yourself. And then you watch the video and feel relief because none of it describes your behavior.
This is too relatable, I've gone through this a lot recently.
I just finished up cooking dinner and the very second I sit down, settle in, and open up youtube, a new theramin trees video is uploaded
The artistry behind your work has greatly improved.
This comment leaks into the youtube feed
@@georgenelson172 -- I suspect Mr/Ms ꧅ has a problem or 12 easily diagnosed by Theramin Trees...
Can't tell you how much your work has helped me and my own work as a therapist. Your videos are clear and informative and empower people to see the cycles they live in. Thank you!!
I really like how you address on how people can avoid pitfalls into healing from abuse
This video is incredibly timely. I'm in a group of people and this one individual keeps saying he's suffering from 'targeted abuse'. He was making jokes about slaves and we asked him to stop. I always appreciate your insight. I have learned many things from this channel over the years that have helped give me clarity in situations. Thank you.
Mental health professionals often misinterpret situations and unwittingly help abusers use the tactics mentioned in the video. I've seen this happen alot with teenagers who have abusive/manipulative parents. All too often mental health professionals automatically take the parents side. Maybe it's because teenagers are more hesitant to bring up the worst of what their parents do, they'll only complain about the trivial stuff, but parents are more likely bring up every little thing that they dislike about their kid and expect the mental health professional to fix it.
Always nice to see a Theramin post.
It's harder to find opportunities to bounce topics and thoughts off of someone with more wisdom and experience than yourself (like a healthy child/parent relationship) as you get older and relatively more secluded.
Appreciate that these topics manage to hit home so cleanly, and help _affirm_ feelings that were already felt, considered and thought about in my own time.
You're no replacement for a parent and that's not at all what I was going for, but it's nice to have a response to a conversation we've never had.
_Insert parasocial joke_
I've recently come to identify my parents as abusive and to be of corrosive personalities. They want me to tolerate their beliefs that just casually dehumanize me for being gay and convinced me to do the same for most of my life by indoctrinating me in the Mormon church from birth. I am on the verge of cutting ties with them for my mental health sake and its one of the hardest choices I've ever had to make. Your content has made this journey im on possible, I appreciate how accessible and digestible your videos are, when dealing with something as confusing as religious traumas, you need as much clarity you can get.
Just be who you are, and love who you want to love if it's mutual - and surround yourself with friends you can trust and vice versa. I know this is hard to do sometimes, especially if for example a whole town is ascribed to a certain religion; a friend of mine whose parents are jehovas witnesses threw him out after he said he was a non believer and mocked him and us, his friends for that. He got his own apartment, is working for it - he even did his masters degree last year.
Staying in such abusive relationships as you described will only hurt you the longer you accept it. In his case, he was thrown out, and luckly for him it worked out. But sometimes abusers want to continue their abuse or "correct you" to their views on how you should be. In germany, my country, gay conversion therapies were legal until 2020 - so you can guess what religious people tried to do to their children if they were like you and they themselfs were highly religious
CUT THEM OFF MY FRIEND!
I feel you. Cutting ties with toxic family is one of hardest things to do. It's gut wrenching and painful and on top there's often a feeling of guilt and shame that eats you internally because the belief that they brought you into this world so you must love them no matter what. You often hear the message from church to "honor thy father and thy mother" which is another way the community adds shame and guilt if you can't love them unconditionally. My dad threatened to kick me out on the streets and said he should disown me because I no longer believe in God or the church and said I'm not allowed to talk to my brothers and sisters about anything I learn from the outside world and that I am his "enemy" sided with the devil. My family pretty much cut me off after I moved away and I never hear from them. So yeah either having to cut ties or being cut off stings like a knife in the chest. I hope you're doing well and taking care of your wellbeing. Hugs.
time to cut them off. just slowly start to pull away. create your own life. visit them less and less.
The healthier you get and the more you surround yourself with worthy, mature relationships the more you’ll realize that the people you left behind brought very little good into your life because they’re probably irretrievably broken. I think with family we mourn what might have been, ascribe positive characteristics to people because the truth is too painful. I’ve been there, and I wish you all the best. Don’t ever look back.
Your videos always find me at the right time
Mr. Trees, your graphics in this video are very wonderful, and they're straightforward but also really cinematic. This video is amazing! Thank you for your work :) youve inspired me to pursue psychology
Thanks Angela - I hope it's a rewarding pursuit for you.
I once had a physical caretaker for my disability say she was practicing “self care” and “setting boundaries” by neglecting my needs/her duties. It still messes with my head to this day.
Hi, I'm Italian. I started following your videos translated into Italian, on my son's advice, and now I translate them automatically. I am pleasantly surprised to see that there are people like you in the world, who confirm to me that I am not crazy when I find out that I think differently from most people. I've always been a little rebellious, and I've always defended my son from the very first days of school, when I saw teachers demanding from children, that they were all the same as soldiers. I was trying to protect my son, but with great difficulty, to avoid the abuse of other people, I myself was creating problems for my son, when I said no.n discuss with others and pretend that everything is fine. All so difficult in this world, where there is no honesty of the heart. I deeply love your videos that are helping me understand a lot of the things that I have inside my heart. Thank you ♥
This will certainly help me detect and defend myself against abuse tactics, but also to recognise my own abuse patterns that I might unknowingly engage in, so I can put an end to them
One of the fastest clicks I've done! Awesome to see some more content!
Now that I finished watching, I want to thank you for a new tool I can use. I have seen this in a narcissist within my life of them using weaponized methods of self-affirmation as well.
Thank you so much. I couldn't put into words how I felt, therefore I thought my feelings were less valid. You showed the logic behind my frustration and now I am able to get rid of my self-doubt and feel right to have felt what I felt. The worst part about getting abused is questioning yourself.
My friend exhorted me to watch this latest upload, and I can tell why. I've only watched a few of your videos, and all are quite well explained and even illustrated. This video is beyond that, I'd say it's timeliest coverage over the foundational struggles of our zeitgeist. You truly explain the abuser/target dynamic so well that I wonder how many abusers will wake up to the abuse guiding their own desperation.
Thank you. :D
These videos are invaluable, thank you so much for making them. You bring to light behaviors from my past relationships that I now understand in a different light and, yes, even make me realize things about my own behavior that I must improve to be the person I want to be.
Just getting in early here, have yet to watch the upload
- wanted to say, i've watched your every upload multiple times and i know im not alone in saying I greatly appreciate what you do.
So, thanks
I hope to one day make videos of such refined insight and quality.
*edit*
Thank you for the '
Agreed!
Same, these uploads have so much substance to them and I re-watch a lot of them to really help the knowledge sink in
I wanna find more channels like Theramin Trees
What???? I'm *not* the only one with TheraminTrees playlist on repeat?! 😄 Glad I'm not alone 😊🌺
(thanks for the
TheraminTrees, I've been watching your videos for a few years now and they've had an unimaginably positive impact on my life. Your reasoning convinced me to abandon Christianity and start answering hard questions. Your videos helped me develop my skills at identifying and handling abusive situations, and your coming out video was a huge one for me. I got kicked out for 2 weeks when I came out as an atheist, but over the years my relationship with my mother has been slowly improving. You've taught me a number of life lessons nobody else cared to, and lead to several major changes in my life for the better. For that I am sincerely thankful.
This guy dishing out more compelling and informative information than universities.
This video has come at a perfect time for me, thank you. If y’all don’t mind me sharing my situation, as videos like these dig up a lot of pain... content warning for some pretty hideous behavior.
My mom just invited me on a family vacation months after I’ve cut ties due to a horrendous amount of abuse/weaponized self-affirmation. Long story short, I live the farthest away from my hometown of all my family/siblings, so upon hearing suddenly that my grandfather was dying and could go any moment, I spoke with my closest friends about the idea of me bringing my loving partner with me for the seven hour trip and possibly multiple weeks stay. They all overwhelmingly agreed, especially when I told them that that was the only way I felt safe to go (vs driving hundreds of miles alone in a volatile emotional state). They were concerned for my mental state and my safety, first and foremost. Upon telling my mom that I was bringing her, however, my mom just. Refused. This was family-only, doesn’t matter if I got her a hotel room or not. She was not welcome. Upon explaining this was crucial for my safety, she accused me of all sorts of things, things she would later deny in an all too familiar bought of gaslighting. I was ostracized by my family as the days carried on in my hometown; I was told I was selfish, that I had violated my entire family’s needs, by having my girlfriend in the city, unseen and unheard of by them. I wasn’t even staying with her, I would visit her occasionally but stayed at my childhood home to be with family. When I was challenged, I’d calmly mention boundaries and putting my needs (like my SAFETY) first, and I was laughed at, mocked, ganged up on, told my therapist was only blowing smoke up my ass for telling me that, and that I was delusional, couldn’t possibly understand, I was told constantly that I didn’t have a grasp on reality, I was antagonized and belittled in ways I’d never had been because I had finally stood up for my boundaries for the first time in my young adult life... all this while spending eight or more hours a day by my wonderful grandpa’s bedside, never intending any of this to be about anyone but him. I would be antagonized viciously by one of my sibling while doing so. I was ignored at the funeral; they pretended not to see me (until I went up and expressed condolences to them because I was having none of that high school mean girl shit). Then being furious at my actions, I was kicked off the family insurance, the phone plan, I had my face mask taken from me before being kicked out on the side of the road in a random parking lot while my mom drove me to see my grandpa because I wouldn’t agree with her that I had made a huge mistake bringing my girlfriend, and they attempted to forcefully take my car, that had legally belonged to me for years. All while pushing the ideas of unconditional love for them and the importance of family. All while I lost my grandpa. And now they’re cheerfully inviting me to an island getaway after NOTHING was resolved (everytime I tried to have a level headed talk about it, they’d take my shit from me as before-mentioned, or start using wild, delusional ad homonym arguments that weren’t related, like refusing to acknowledge my valid critiques unless I told them my thoughts on abortion. No, it was never related, lmao). So yeah. No one gave a shit about my needs, and yet I somehow violated all of theirs (their words, I am not exaggerating for effect here), and now they’re the victim because I won’t come home and keep playing the polite happy daughter no matter what. THANK you for these videos. I watched them during that trip home and I will never stop watching them and working to heal with your words as long as you’re making them ♥️
You dared to step outside the oppressive family script and stand your ground - and this is the punishment we get as targets of family abuse for doing that. I know what you've written will all be nauseatingly familiar to many targets - it certainly describes many scenes in my own early life. Unthinkable acts of abuse - all mixed with messages of 'family love/loyalty' - followed by total amnesia and cheerful social invites. It's pure fragmented insanity. I used to call it the hall of mirrors.
My brother and I have often noted that people really show you who they are when they believe they have power. You've seen who those people really are. What's great to hear is the love you have outside of that abusive group of people - the love of your girlfriend and close friends. I'm glad you have good people around you. I wish you strength and happiness in moving on with your life on your terms.
@@TheraminTrees I’m tearing up at your response, thank you for taking the time to say so. I am an enormous fan of your videos and listen and relisten all the time. The fact that your work is free to listen is un-f**king believable and I’m sure does an enormous world of good for so many. When I have a paying job again, I’d love to support you on Patreon; your work just means so much. Thank you thank you again for replying, made my day and made me glad I had the bravery to share my experiences ♥️
@@TheraminTrees I’d also like to add that you’re correct, I have a phenomenal found family here in St. Louis. They’ve changed my life in unimaginable ways just by being kind and being vulnerable when needed. My partner was horrified at the daily occurrences that were happening while we were in my hometown, and as a bleeding heart it weighed terribly on her too, but she tells me all the time that she’d do it a thousand times over if need be and has no regrets over being there. Just typing that I’m starting to cry again. I am extraordinary lucky and I only hope everyone else here can find something similar
It genuinely boggles my mind how anyone besides of abusers could dislike these videos. They are highly philanthropic productions.
I do not endorse the idea of unconditional love. And I don't see this as a bad thing. If a loved one needed my help to bury a body, for example, I would not help, and I'd cease to love that person.
It's not a choice you just make.. if it's genuine you can't just flick a switch. If there is a body to dispose of and not a very good explanation I would run for the hills as well. You can choose to end it but it's a long and painful process. If it isn't then you were never really invested imo.
I needed something to listen to while tackling the dish pile. What perfect timing! Thank you so much for addressing how abusers use "I can't control your feelings," and especially for providing a good response.
Last chapter, my Mom's phrase was "If we don't take care of this we'll have to do it in another life." Since, I'm clueless, (turns out to be a good defense) I had/have no idea what the unrepaired "this" was.
I really want to thank you for these videos. The only somewhat abusive relationship I had was the one I had with the roman catholic chruch by being born into it. I unilatterally ended it years ago, way before I had ever seen any of your videos, yet they helped me better process and by extension understand and justify (to both myself and others) my motivations for doing so. I had previously already understood much of what you cover but I couldn't really point out any specifics. For instance I would often rightfully recognize that some particular argument was being disingenuous or unfair but would be unable to point out why exactly that was the case. So your videos have helped me greatly in revisiting and analyzing what exactly was going on back then. (I was after all only around the age of 10 when most of this took place)
This has been very informative. I don't just see these play out in couples but even in politics where would be abusers on all sides use these concepts to claim victimhood in my opinion culturally this will water down the actual meaning to the point of people becoming indifferent to the very real suffering of others.
Was just watching some of your vids today before this popped up, good timing. One thing I think I've learned from watching your videos when it comes to abusers is to make sure we give them little to nothing to work with. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile, a bloody, messy, horrifying, decimating mile. And that includes granting them the affirmations described here.
I think one minor affirmation (one that can be seen as an off-shoot of the "I'm not responsible for your feelings" affirmation) I can add is the phrase "It's just my opinion." It's one thing to say you didn't like a movie, one thing to say anyone who liked it have bad taste, it's another to say that anyone who liked it are evil people who need to be round up and killed...and mean it with every breath. A friendly reminder that just as others are entitled to their opinions so are we entitled to ours. So we are just as free to share our opinions on their point of view, no matter how negative it may be, after all it's just our opinion as well.
As always, well done sir, will definitely be rewatching this in the future.
In time, could you make a video on the use of sex in abusive relationships?
if you feel qualified
it was really the crux of what i suffered through for 3+ years, the emotional side of it - her using the love as pretense to violate boundaries and both demand and expect affection without a foundation of respect.
it ended on an extreme low involving betrayal - leaving the subject painful..
..and in a world like this, obsessed with the topic, its really hard to enjoy any media at times because like a bombshell suddenly sex is the topic and it floors me
there were so many cycles of a hollow mask of respect, that would slip away every chance she got to take a mile from an inch - leading to fights, apologies, promises, and a manipulated hope..
she had to fully betray the love i gave in confidence before comprehending its value.
now im broken, dead in many many ways - and she wants to actualize the years of promises that were never backed by moment to moment action..
but im just drifting.
I digress. the initial question was the point.
thank you Mr. Trees
Keep reminding yourself that this person doesn’t represent everyone. Other people are different.
There are things I enjoy which I sometimes find myself “checking myself” about. E.g. I question whether I should be enjoying binging on the Coen Brothers on a Saturday because person x from my past might think that was lame. I can’t even remember what this person used to say to subtly demean my interests, but the self-conscience reaction still persists years later.
Normal people would love that I have favourite movies; they wouldn’t dream of putting a downer on that.
Sorry for the poor analogy. Just trying to illustrate that a thing which was negatively affected in the bad relationship can exist anew in a healthy relationship. If you believe the person in the good relationship is a totally different person, then the sex, music, movies, food, travel, whatever it is, can be born again into the new world you share with the better partner. If that makes any sense.
You tried therapy my man?
I found for my own abusive relationship I identified as an abused person and likewise tried to just get on with things and ignore how I felt after I got out of that situation.
But the paradox is that only until you accept what you are, can you then become something else.
For me, understanding the steps helped.
Emotional blackmail by Susan Forward.
It was a great resource.
What you're describing sounds like a trauma bond.
@NihilistEnigma Brother, please whatever you do don't go to the redpill group, they prey on people like you to validate their own diminished self worth after going through a bad relationship. They have similar experiences, but they develop a harmful ideology(not rooted in reality) to cope with their condition. Therapy along with time heals a lot of things, wish you all the best.
@@NihilisticRealism Bro I don't want you to discuss anything for obvious reasons, just warning you that there are a lot of sadists on redpill communities who love kicking others when they're down, just don't listen to their banter. The sexism is pretty real. Everything will get better soon, just don't give up.
Sorry brother. What is meant by the last comment was to watch videos on "trauma bonding"
Plus understand the different stages of emotional blackmail.
- operates using fear, obligation, and/or guilt.
- the abuser uses your hot buttons, which are your sensitivities that cause you to react reflexively. Like peace at any price or fear of anger. The predictable response let's them get the jump on you.
- this hitbutton manipulation puts you in a fog that limits your ability to see into the future too. So you don't even realise this is happening to you
Stay strong brother and I hope you feel the love.
Totally resonates. Thank you for this from an empath who's recovering from narcissitic abuse from family members and romantic partners who blamed and projected onto me. 💜
Is there a 'preventative medicine' against becoming an abuser? I think many people initially don't want to harm others, but they just don't realize that what they're doing is abusive. Eventually they habituate to expressing themselves in such ways, especially when they get feedback that it works, since manipulative tactics by definition have to be at least somewhat effective. You video "copying enemies" touches the subject, but only for people who have been victims themselves.
I'd love a video about it too, I have some narcissistic tendencies developed as a defense mechanism (over-loving myself so hate doesn't affect me), and I am afraid that that behavior of mine could spill onto others who never show hate
Brilliant question. I often nervously examine my own behavior looking for signs I've inadvertently become my father. I can never be sure. It would be really helpful to have some TT style insight. ❤
Bullshit. Abusers know what they are doing.
@@spaceghost8995 not always.
@@rhael42 Okay maybe not at first, but when people TELL them that they are behaving badly they just scoff and play the victim. These abusers have been TOLD what they are doing, but they don't care.
Your videos help me understand me, my family and the years of bullying that I endured. Sincerely, thank you
I can't express in words how valuable I find your videos. Thank you!
Incredibly insightful. You have no idea how your words help me.
this channel is amazing. it showed me how i was victimized in my past and how i now also victimize others. videos like this give me a mirror with wich i can see myself for who i really am and how certian behaveiours that i display are distorted. @TheraminTrees for making content wich i can use as a mirror and to reflect on life.
This video has become my salvation, I've listening to this over and over again. Thank you theramintrees🎉
You've helped me alter my views on life, and I like to think it's much for the better. Thank you.
Theramin, as someone who suffered from narcissistic abuse on behalf of my mother for years, your videos have truly been a massive aid alongside the therapy I am also getting. It's been a difficult journey but one that is surely not over yet. You helped me see the truth of my situation, and for that, I am forever grateful. Thank you for the work you put into these videos. I truly believe anyone who is experiencing similar situations can highly benefit from your insight. I feel indebted to you in some way, but I know that you will refuse to undertake such a baseless debt and be idolized in that manner, and it would be wrong of me to impose that. So until I can find better words than "thank you," know that I will be forever grateful and appreciative for your passion in discussing these difficult topics.
That the material has been of help is reward enough. Thank you.
The thing about lateral vs vertical orientations, and how both sides see themselves as being oppressed, but only one is right, really reminds me of how certain members of majority groups behave when anyone attempts to level the playing field. They feel oppressed, not because they are being put beneath the minorities, but because the minorities wish to be on the same level as them, which they view as a challenge to their dominance.
"...only feeling fleeting experiences of worth when they fulfill the demands of other people."
i don't think i've ever let myself feel good unless someone else has given that worth to me or given me the permission to feel good about myself. i never really knew how to put it into words before now. thank you.
Advice and information useful and thoughtful as always. I'm also struck by the fantastic visuals- the backgrounds, the rotation, so fascinating!
The best parts of these videos for me, is that they give me an opportunity to reflect on my own actions.
I have done things which I now release were abusive, thus I must make sure to both.
- Recognise my own patterns and normalised trauma/abuse.
- Assist in undoing the harm I've caused, which is a slow and difficult process, but an important one.
Thank you always for your wonderful work.
Possibly the only type of unconditional love should be an unconditional love for oneself. Which then, of course, in the hands of the malignant narcissist, will then somehow magically result in conditions for others...
Incredible how everything you say resonates so well. It is incredibly empowering knowing I can put it into words thanks to you. Never stop doing what you are doing, this work is important.
Wow, a lot of lessons here for me to learn. The very last scene where the character steps out of the box was very poweful. Very nice work. 😊
Extraordinary content! Arriving just in time to light some dark areas. Thank you.