Although killer was the least impressive on the roof it should be noted jinbei would also be the weakest person on the roof. So its really just a race for last place💀 But im going with killer, seems like his portrayal is superior and feats are better rn
Who's who's has better speed feats than killer. For Christ sakes Hawkins the bum still had bandages from getting no diffed from law.😂😂😂 You can try to justify killer being 1st commander but he clearly is in no where 1st commander. A nerfed pre Emma zoro while being distracted finished him with one clean attack. There is no way pre Emma zoro with 2 swords> wci snake man, kat or king. Just no way. You keep talking about this internal damage that did nothing. Maybe that's because it was flashy. Kinemon who probably isn't even commander level damaged kaido and took attacks from kaido along with the nine scabbards so are we gonna say the nine scabbards above Luffy????? I really think you are being disingenuous. Kid slammed kaido in the ground without ryou,or acoc and he said "arghhh" or we gonna say that hurt? Not to mention jimbei is just more skilled, more proficient at haki, physically stronger due to genetics. Can do internal damage with his fishman Karate. Killer damaged kaido with hax, kat,king or Luffy would absolutely body killer. Guy took one hit from kaido in the anime and no hits in the manga. What makes you think the scabbards can damage kaido but jimbei a warlord and one of luffy's three commanders can't. Just not reasonable to think at all bruh. 1.1bill bounty and stronger than ace right now. Killer can't even beat ace.
Killer is slept on and underhyped which probably has more to do with how people think of Kid than of Killer himself, to me i hold everyone who fought on the rooftop as a minimum of YC1 while i see Jinbei as more of a YC2, and lets be real, outside of Page One and Ulti the other Tobi Roppo were not really impressive like everyone thinks just because Kaido hyped them up a lil bit, They were nothing more than Jobbers, not saying Who’s Who was weak but i dont even think he’s a YC3 based on what he showed, there’s levels between him and Cracker imo who is the gatekeeper for YC3 imo
I feel like the experience, haki, combat skills and battle IQ would be to much for killer. Killer's endurance, speed and strength will definitely be able to keep up with jimbei, but he has been doing this way longer. I personally feel like jimbei washes Hawkins who was technically a stepping-stone for killer, someone (even though it was very bitch-made)who proved very difficult for killer. And this isn't even counting on the location, if it's anywhere near a body of water, killer is done for. Just opinions of course
Hawkins was only difficult for Killer in the sense that Killer wouldnt Kill him due to him have a Kid straw Doll, once that was out the picture it was Clear Hawkins had no point even being in the same room as him
Killer is the brain in Kid's Crew. So IQ and battle IQ goes to killer for me. Also do you really thing Jimbei can do anything better then Killer against Kaido.
just my opinion but jinbei would beat killer,in terms of haki,endurance,biq jinbei outclasses,i don’t see zoro pre enma one shotting jinbei with only 2 of his swords while zoro was weakened but that’s just my opinion
Just cause he bypassed Kaido's armor doesn't mean his AP is bigger than Katakuri's. I think Killer managed to do so due to special technique (or under special circumstances). It's like saying Raizo's AP is bigger than Katakuri's cause he managed to damage Kaido
2 questions for you 1. can kid hurt king 2. what do u think about king’s durability compared to hybrid kaido and if king is better, do u find cutting kings wings better than law damaging big mom
@@ayush9202 yes still Moria is still stronger Killer. Remember Moria still fought Kaido, even though he lost that one. Also, you can see how much damage luffy got when he fought moria. Luffy is a rubber man during that time yet he still took alot of damage from the blugeoning attacks.
@@catcry1857 dude Killer did more damage to Kaido then Moria ever. Also don't compare that Luffy to current Luffy. If you are going to compare Luffy from start of the series then Arlong > Killer too. Also do you really think Jimbei can keep up with Kaido just like Killer did.
@@catcry1857 ur delusional killer stomps moria doflamingo jimbei and pre timeskip crocodile and buggy so how is warlord status relevant even ace was asked to become warlord and we know killer slams ace
While I agree, I just have one question. Who the hell is this "Hawkins" you keep talking about? I know Killer fought a coward named Basil CHICKENS, but I don't remember seeing anyone named "Hawkins."
Hard disagree with a lot of these points. Jimbei has internal destruction capabilities too with Demon Brick Fist. Fishman Karate is an internal destruction art because it attacks the water molecules in the body just like how Killer’s attacks are sound based and therefore do internal destruction damage by default. Killer’s sonic attacks and Jimbei’s Demon Brick Fist are comparable. Jimbei also definitely low diffed Who’s Who. He fought the first leg of the fight 1vX. Once he got 1v1, he used a single named attack that instantly finished Who’s Who. He tanked some hits, but you’ll notice that Who’s Who was DEFINITELY wrong about Jimbei being torn apart by his attacks, as Jimbei literally tanks one with his face on purpose to prove a point and it fizzled out on his skin. You also grant Killer feats like blocking “attacks from Kaido” that weren’t insanely strong. The Demolition Gust is not comparable to, say, a Thunder Bagua. Not even close. Kin’emon blocked comparable hits from Kaido to Killer’s blocks. Even then he only partly held them back and then got out of the way, not purely deflect them like Zoro did. But then you won’t consider Jimbei using his BARE HANDS to block a Magma Fist from Akainu a comparable feat? When most of the community agrees Akainu was the strongest admiral and was aiming to kill with that hit. Jimbei’s block is a hundred times more impressive than Killer’s. Killer managed to hurt Kaido, but his attack is literally the only one on the roof that Kaido didn’t compliment or acknowledge. Does that put him in YC1? I don’t think so. Having the ability to do 1% chip damage to Kaido doesn’t immediately put you in YC1 territory. Jimbei’s Demon Brick Fist would easily do just as much. Killer’s 1v1 was against a much weaker opponent than Jimbei’s - someone not even worthy to be Tobi Roppo. Killer is a member of the Worst Generation and was on the roof, so I can acknowledge the portrayal is definitely up there. But I’ll say one thing: I’d be interested to see what Killer’s bounty after Wano was. I’m willing to put a lot of money on him not being a billion berry man. And yes I know bounty does not equal strength, but it does have a lot to do with portrayal. So do I think Jimbei is stronger than Killer? Maybe and maybe not. I think they both belong in YC2.
kaido didnt acknowledge kidd either “needs more mass” is all he got. You make some good points, i think its a good fight, But killer has shown better AP, and in terms of defense like i said jinbeis haki is better but killer has shown comparable if not better endurance feats. He also no diffed hawkins, who is at least on the tobi roppo level, granted he is weaker than whos who in my opinion Also it depends when it comes to hurting kaido even the scabbards can, but they all got one shotted by a base kaido, killer was hanging in there the whole time. He didnt do asm as everyone else but jinbei would’ve been the weakest here too so its not really fair to use that argument against killer imo
@@D.Strawhat probably fair. Jimbei would also have been the weakest on the roof by far. I think everyone else on the roof was at YC1 to sub-Yonko class when they got up there.
@@D.Strawhat Ignoring Hax, Hawkins is weaker than all the Tobbi Roppo. Kaido’s subordinates are ranked directly by strength. Apoo & Hawkins were lacking in raw power.
@@guardiantree8879 that’s just not true at all Hawkins at the start of wano is literally making zoro sweat fights law of screen and law is seen bloodied so he landed some hit and law had some difficulty But ofc this is after he hits law with a sea prism stone and apoo literally ko luffy and zoro avoids zoro 720 cannon attack and block drake and zoro at the same time takes a hit from kid and is still conscious literally fights against drake ofs and they seem relative since they were at stand still then they fight together against cpo apo was literally able to take cpo shigan to the neck and tanks it with armament haki there defiantly tobi roppo lvl not to mention Hawkins also doesn’t get one tapped he literally gets his arm taking and is still fighting then gets slammed yeah there defiantly around that lvl
I mean who who was got through Jinbei armament plenty of times he was able to cut Jinbei with fang pistol using hardening my and was even reacting to literally most of Jinbei attack plus with his shigan he got through quite few times poking through Jinbei armament then Jinbei reinforced his haki and got mad then beat who’s who. Who who even takes shoulder toss from jinbie which is named attack. Killer is way faster than Jinbei for one literal blocking kaido slashes and avoiding them blitz’s a base kaido with zoro leave dent in kaido neck and literally shows greater combat speed than act one luffy which jinbie has no speed or ap feats even close and you literally can’t prove that Jinbeis demon brick fist is as comparable I would like to say cause that is Jinbei literally strongest attack but you can prove that Jinbei literally hit bigmom with a attack forgot the name and does no damage the scabbards can also use ryou but none of there attack individual hurt more than killers attack theres lvl dura neg luffy dura neg luffys durag beg is stronger than anything Jinbei has done there’s even dura beg like the gamma knife. killer is just much faster has better ap the fact he was able to leave dent in kaido neck though it was joint attack has far greater feats than a act one luffy
But please make Sabo vs Rob Lucci vs jinbei because I want to know who is the best martial arts fighter and also make prime garp vs prime Whitebeard kizaru vs aokiji
Man, how are you going to say that killer is better than Katauri and Luffy at the beginning of Wano, that's misinterpreting the series. On the roof Kaido wasn't fighting seriously at all, it's only when he defeats Luffy that it happens, second, Killer to "hurt" Kaido had to try to damage him internally, very different from what happened with Luffy at the beginning of Wano. They forget that to hurt Kaido certain special skills are required, at the beginning of Wano Luffy had a very strong haki, but he didn't project it. Also in resistance Jimbe resisted a blow from Akainu, that happens to Killer and he dies. If Jimbe put up with Big mom and Akainu, not to mention Ace's fruit, what makes you think Killer has something similar to those characters? not at all. Jimbe when he got serious, defeated Whos Who without a problem. Killer is not at the level of a first commander, maximum of a third. Since Kaido was getting hit and not fighting seriously, many misunderstood the power levels on the rooftop.
@@D.Strawhat If Kaido had fought seriously from the start, he would have just beaten all five supernovas out there in a minute, and that's giving them some chance to fight back. The difference was huge, only Kaido was holding back for fun and that allowed them to damage him, and hence many supposed levels of powers made by the fandom.
To the people saying killer was the weakest on the roof, for sure, but he was still fuckin up there. He wasn't better than 5 of the top 10 strongest people in the world, you got him. I think it's so telling that killer gets shown off every time the worst generation is brought up. He's the only first mate to do so. Bepo is cool and all, but he never gets a title card yknow? He's on a different fuckin level
Another misconception with kaido isn't just because you can hurt him means your attacks are stronger than those that can't. The 9 scabbards could hurt him because they knew adcoa, law could hurt him because his attacks ignore durability,and killer hurt him because his attack ignores durability. Killer hurting kaido doesn't speak much AP unless you want to say all above have higher AP than act 1 Luffy. Killer attack should show unless you know how it works which is with sound you can't stop it. With kiado you either have to have a technique that bypasses durability or have a attack that can break his durability. These aren't the same and killer didn't break kaido's but bypassed it. Law's injection shot is way weaker than a Kong gun yet it could hurt kaido while Kong gun didn't. It's not that law's attack was stronger but that it can bypass durability while Kong gun at the time had to break it which he couldn't.
Kuma vs Kid. This seems random but kid's power is magnetism and the opposite of that is repelling things. And Kuma's devil fruit's whole thing is repelling everything. It's a perfect match up. Great job on the vid btw, I rlly enjoyed it :).
I think this a good battle, but I have Killer he was decent on the Rooftop and he washed hawkins, killer was still fresh too he could’ve helped him Kid and Law that big mom fight not saying he would’ve been good help but he would’ve been a good assist. @D.Strawhat
You’re contradicting yourself… Killer bypassed Kaido’s defenses to damage him. Because Kaido’s defenses are so high Killer has greater power… Can’t use both arguments at the same time. If Killer’s attack ignores defenses it doesn’t matter how high of defenses Kaido has. It becomes irrelevant to how much attack Killer has. Instead you’d have to look at damage done, which would be minimal & in fact in line with Jinbe’s best feats against Big Mom. I’m not yet convinced Killer is YC3, while I’m confident Jinbe at least is. High diff fight though because of Killers speed which might be his only advantage.
Im saying as of rn, killer has shown better AP because kaido is more durable than big mom and he actually did damage where as jinbei didnt do any damage to big mom. and in terms of defense its pretty comparable even if jinbei did damage which im not sure of, killers feat would still be better cuz in terms of durability, dragon kaido> base kaido>>big mom she’s extremely durable but kaidos defense is a whole other level.
@@D.Strawhat My disagreement though is that Killer’s feat is useless for scaling because it bypasses defenses/durability. Like a telepath using their mind to knock out or hurt Wonder Woman or Superman. By no means does that mean the telepath is stronger or can overcome their physical defenses. It’s a feat that it hurt Kaido but ultimately Zoro’s feat of scarring Kaido (though potentially causing less damage) is actually far superior because he actually had to overcome Kaido’s defenses & durability while Killer simply bypassed them. If Killer actually did what Zoro did I’d agree with your conclusions.
@@guardiantree8879 even if that's the case that attack atleast was enough to hurt kiado which should still scale higher then any jinbei attack we have seen
Dude, the logic of "Killer could damage Kaido, so therefore, he must hit harder than pre-Udon G4 Luffy and Katakuri" is just so wrong. He has a specific TECHNIQUE that can damage Kaido, that does not mean his attack POWER is higher or that he hits harder. It is like trying to open a jar with your fists vs opening it with a tool. Is the person with the tool stronger than the one without? Another analogy would be "Is a person that knows computer science stronger than someone who doesn't?" The reason for Killer or post-Udon Luffy being able to damage Kaido is not an increase in hitting power or superior AP, it is the gaining of the specific power needed for that matchup. Ryou is the TOOL necessary to do the job, by itself, it doesn't increase anything. It just allows you to inject your Haki inside someone.
I’m going to have to make some points here, big mom scratched her knee only bc she was heavily weakened at the time that was literally part of Bege’s plan to kill her, base Kaido would one shot beast form Kaido as he seems to only use this form for flight and when fighting weak characters similar to King and most other zoan users seem to imply that for zoan’s hybrid form is stronger than human form and human form is stronger than beast form, on top of that saying Jimbei didn’t get stronger since marineford/fishman island is the dumbest thing I’ve heard in my life, he went from fighting somewhat equally to a base luffy to wrecking who’s who who is stronger than Ulti who’s stronger than a post udon base luffy who is stronger than a g4 luffy at the end of whole cake/start of wano who is equal if not stronger than katakuri who absolutely rocked g4 luffy in the begin of the fight, besides that who’s who is crazy strong, he’s nearly as strong as Jack and Jimbei just low-mid diffed him while he was already fighting a lot of beast pirate fodder prior and Killer’s feat against Kaido isn’t very impressive when u consider that it is dura neg and he didn’t actually pierce his skin, the only other feats killer has is hitting zoro who at the time only had 2 swords and was caught off guard (and the other feats from that fight are dumb bc killer didn’t have his preferred weapons) and one shotting Hawkins who’s one of the weakest characters to the point I’d say that even Apoo could beat his ass and the only reason he didn’t get one tapped by killer is bc he’d kill Kidd with his df ability, his most impressive feat is probably tanking I think it was 2 head on attacks from big mom
ulti>post udon luffy is cap and that statement has already been debunked, If ur refering to the headbutt, luffy wasnt using ryou which is why he lost to ulti but was able to slam kaido with red roc in base. So clearly he held back on ulti. Which is why he said "i underestimated her" idk why that scaling is so popular its just wrong, yall forget what luffy did on the roof when u say things like that Jinbei fishman karate is also duraneg and no he doesnt scale above kat, i already debunked the weird tobi roppo> post udon luffy scaling so many times💀 it literally just makes zero sense. And at best ur right he scales to jack. Which is still probably not true cuz jack showed better endurance by far cuz he fought multiple ppl stronger than who's who and still ended up in a 1v1 with inu who has advanced haki and can also scale above who's who and jinbei based on his feats. Franky literally whooped somone relative to ulti and whos who and ur arguing ulti and whos who> Kat😂😂. Where did this sudden disrespect towards kat come in the community, idek if jinbei is beating doffy let alone katakuri. None of the tobi roppo are even touching katakuri
@@D.Strawhat jimbei is easily beating doffy and Katakuri heck even at the tame time, I seriously doubt any of the tobi roppo would get one tapped by Kaido (which he did to luffy in g4 in base) that same luffy is equal if not stronger than Katakuri
I love Killer but I don't see him handling Jimbei by himself. Hawkins was a certified bum and got low diffed. Whose who is a legitimate combatant who is arguably Commander level and got low-mid diffed. That on top of Jimbei having just better Haki skill, and them both being Solid intelligent Fighters I could see this going either way. It's a 50/50 for me but if I had to put my money on someone I'm putting it on Jimbei
@@daryussamuel4657 The only thing Jimbei was able to do to a weakened Big Mom was push her off the ship and he was using ocean water to do that. And Kaido is way more durable then Big Mom. There's no way Jimbei is even touching Kaido
@@daryussamuel4657 read again my friend They didn't even reopened kaido's scar. Kaido was just shocked not hurt. Also you really think Killer is at Jack level. For me Killer is between Queen and King level. Around Sanji level
I can't see killer beating inu,neko,jack,denjiro, perospero, ashura doji who actually had feats with fighting a young Oden. Like how you guys gonna just jump killer to 1st commander. He can't beat a single 1st commander.
none of those characters besides oden would last 20 seconds on the roof, u acting like a tobi roppo member could've been on this rooftop💀 He's literally doing things that even queen wouldnt be able to do😂
@@D.Strawhat I'm confused, were inu,neko,doji and denjiro not on the roof with the nine scabbards before the supernova? Jack and perospero scale to inu and neko by proxy. So you are just being dis ingenious. Would killer of made any difference with the 9 scabbards? He would of just been another fill-in to be bodied. He was hard carried by the fact that everyone else was there also preoccupying kaido. Killer can't last 20 seconds against Kaido with just his attention, neither law, neither can kid either lol. So what are you really saying?
@@daryussamuel4657nah you’re just chatting right now. The fact that he was able to effortlessly deflect the same attacks from Kaido that the scabbards couldn’t do put’s Killer above them.
2:30 not valid argument since ace got beat up by BB and then tortured/sea stone drained at impel down (so its safe to assume his haki was drained from all this) while jimbei is relativelly clean at marinefort, we also have statements from jimbei claiming ace is way stronger both in the manga adaption of the novel and in the actual manga cannon himself. jimbei also got hit in the stomach area instead of his heart/lungs plus he is also a fishman so him surviving makes sense as even luffy could survive blows to the stomach
@@D.Strawhat i think jimbei is bellow rookie ace definitevelly, theres no evidense to suggest that jimbei got stronger after to years when he is 40+ plus but there is for ace who already bested him. in fact evidense supports the idea jimbei remained stagnant as yamato could one shot ULTI but jimbei had to have an entire fight with page 1, the same yamato that ace bested. then you would say " then why is jimbei relative to that same ace?" cause jimbei uses water that counters fire and devil fruit user by extension so he counters ace, thats how he closed the gap
I agree nigga jimbe is goated but he not that goated maybe in a large body of water he could drown him but I doubt it I actually want everyone from the new gen to get stronger then jimbe
Big Mum did scratch her knee when she was in a weaker state and her durability went down somehow and if Jimbei was in had a bit more water he would have low diffed who’s who
if jinbei had water he would one shot killer cuz killer has a smile fruit. So yea in water jinbei wins but tbh he beats a lot of characters in the water
@@D.Strawhat yeah but killer is fast if they in close to a river they just keep attack each other from a far it would be close as jimbei has to go close to the surface and killer can track where he comes up to so he can send attacks right back at him
With all do, this video was not needed. You barley drop videos as is, and now u drop this killer vs jinbe. We alread knew the outcome. Can we gets some jjk stuff or OPM pls. Also yo ass put me on to Edgerunners, and I can’t stomp feeling sad sum times. Appreciate the vids tho keep it pushing.
I disagree on killers attack power being that much higher given Luffy couldn't hurt kaido because he lacked ryuo. Kiku who I think we can agree isn't much stronger than pre udon Luffy did damage to kaido
He does, when his flames are on. zoros ryou was hurting kaido and forced him to dodge. Zoro landed direct attacks in kings face and he laughed. with his flames off he got dropped in three attacks, hes only more durable half the time.
Jinbei beats killer just like he beats Rob Lucci in martial arts power I'm sure Sabo beats jinbei as well in martial arts Power but tell me RokuShiki vs Fishman karate vs ryusoken which is better which
sabo is probably above killer, jinbei is not, I dont see why jinbei would be able to last on the roof, when even someone like katakuri or king would struggle.
@@D.Strawhat We can agree on that much. I just think WW has better attack-power than Jack, and is signicantly faster + Rokushiki. Plus hes a carnivorous ancient zoan and jack is just an ancient zoan albeit a pretty formidable animal.
@@D.Strawhat I don't think so . Sulong form neko and inu are tiers above jinbei. And even base neko and inu have better ap feats then jinbei. Jinbei in water can't even hurt big mom. Whereas jack fought inu and neko without rest for days . Jack is just unlucky . He always fights an enemy way stronger then him.
@@wassup5946 Yes i have the top 4 scabbards above jinbei, and jack. The highest i can wank jinbei is jack level but thats debatable but sulong scabbard beat him 1v1, ashura was going to beat his base form and he never used hybrid form on ashura but ashura never used ryou on jack. So even if they powerup ashura would still win probably denjiro i think should be equal to ashura cuz they both stayed behind and trained for 20 years. I think the only scabbards jinbei beats are raizo, izo, kiku, kanjuro, and maybe kawamatsu but even they (besides raizo) might be above jinbei.
@@D.Strawhat yup bro scabbards are underrated . People forget there ryuo was trained by oden. And oden's ryuo is one of the best in series.And I thin denjiro is stronger then Ashura because he gave king a tough time 20 years before and in his fight with 2 swords(pre Emma) zoro he was not going all out and still gave zoro trouble.zoro acknowledged his strength.
Agreed with everything in this video until you said Killer AP was greater than Kat. Just because his ability bypasses durability does not give it more force than an attack that could not apply its force without first penetrating that durability.
Although killer was the least impressive on the roof it should be noted jinbei would also be the weakest person on the roof. So its really just a race for last place💀 But im going with killer, seems like his portrayal is superior and feats are better rn
FACTS!!!
hardly an anti-feat to say he was the least impressive on rooftop, considering the other people there, good vid 👍
yup killer is underrated jimbei doesn’t have great ap or speed
Who's who's has better speed feats than killer.
For Christ sakes Hawkins the bum still had bandages from getting no diffed from law.😂😂😂
You can try to justify killer being 1st commander but he clearly is in no where 1st commander.
A nerfed pre Emma zoro while being distracted finished him with one clean attack.
There is no way pre Emma zoro with 2 swords> wci snake man, kat or king. Just no way.
You keep talking about this internal damage that did nothing. Maybe that's because it was flashy. Kinemon who probably isn't even commander level damaged kaido and took attacks from kaido along with the nine scabbards so are we gonna say the nine scabbards above Luffy?????
I really think you are being disingenuous.
Kid slammed kaido in the ground without ryou,or acoc and he said "arghhh" or we gonna say that hurt?
Not to mention jimbei is just more skilled, more proficient at haki, physically stronger due to genetics. Can do internal damage with his fishman Karate.
Killer damaged kaido with hax, kat,king or Luffy would absolutely body killer.
Guy took one hit from kaido in the anime and no hits in the manga.
What makes you think the scabbards can damage kaido but jimbei a warlord and one of luffy's three commanders can't.
Just not reasonable to think at all bruh. 1.1bill bounty and stronger than ace right now. Killer can't even beat ace.
@@daryussamuel4657 im taking pre enma zoro over jinbei💀
no one talks about his killer agility too he is like sanji before the sky walk, or killer intellect
Killer is slept on and underhyped which probably has more to do with how people think of Kid than of Killer himself, to me i hold everyone who fought on the rooftop as a minimum of YC1 while i see Jinbei as more of a YC2, and lets be real, outside of Page One and Ulti the other Tobi Roppo were not really impressive like everyone thinks just because Kaido hyped them up a lil bit,
They were nothing more than Jobbers, not saying Who’s Who was weak but i dont even think he’s a YC3 based on what he showed, there’s levels between him and Cracker imo who is the gatekeeper for YC3 imo
Page one is unironically the least impressive Tobi roppo
Been constantly looking at your channel ever since I finished all your videos 3 weeks ago, it's been a long time but finally another video let's gooo
Thanks man for acknowledging that damaging kaido is a big feat
I feel like the experience, haki, combat skills and battle IQ would be to much for killer. Killer's endurance, speed and strength will definitely be able to keep up with jimbei, but he has been doing this way longer. I personally feel like jimbei washes Hawkins who was technically a stepping-stone for killer, someone (even though it was very bitch-made)who proved very difficult for killer. And this isn't even counting on the location, if it's anywhere near a body of water, killer is done for. Just opinions of course
Hawkins was only difficult for Killer in the sense that Killer wouldnt Kill him due to him have a Kid straw Doll, once that was out the picture it was Clear Hawkins had no point even being in the same room as him
@@almightylambo9540 I said that, it was in a very bullshit way but that's just good battle IQ
Killer is the brain in Kid's Crew. So IQ and battle IQ goes to killer for me.
Also do you really thing Jimbei can do anything better then Killer against Kaido.
just my opinion but jinbei would beat killer,in terms of haki,endurance,biq jinbei outclasses,i don’t see zoro pre enma one shotting jinbei with only 2 of his swords while zoro was weakened but that’s just my opinion
Just cause he bypassed Kaido's armor doesn't mean his AP is bigger than Katakuri's. I think Killer managed to do so due to special technique (or under special circumstances). It's like saying Raizo's AP is bigger than Katakuri's cause he managed to damage Kaido
2 questions for you
1. can kid hurt king
2. what do u think about king’s durability compared to hybrid kaido and if king is better, do u find cutting kings wings better than law damaging big mom
kidd can hurt king and king might have equal durability to kaido but his endurance is wayyyyyyyy worse so great durability ain’t that op
@@Relax_Rombeyhis durability is above kaido, kids attacks would be useless if he cant get past the flames
@@D.Strawhat yea true but i don’t see a character like kidd losing he’s physically stronger than zoro and has good endurance
@@D.Strawhat Kings durabillity above kaido ? Please explain why kaidos greatest asset is his tremendous defence 😁
@@chrisphil069 not hybrid kaido
For me Jinbei, is still the clear winner as he is a former warlord. We also haven't seen jinbei's true power.
By you logic Moria is former warlord so Moria > Killer 😂
@@ayush9202 yes still Moria is still stronger Killer. Remember Moria still fought Kaido, even though he lost that one. Also, you can see how much damage luffy got when he fought moria. Luffy is a rubber man during that time yet he still took alot of damage from the blugeoning attacks.
@@catcry1857 dude Killer did more damage to Kaido then Moria ever.
Also don't compare that Luffy to current Luffy. If you are going to compare Luffy from start of the series then Arlong > Killer too.
Also do you really think Jimbei can keep up with Kaido just like Killer did.
@@ayush9202 yes Jinbei also keep-up with Kaido. He has the ocean on his side. He can tank him as he tanked big mom.😅
@@catcry1857 ur delusional killer stomps moria doflamingo jimbei and pre timeskip crocodile and buggy so how is warlord status relevant even ace was asked to become warlord and we know killer slams ace
While I agree, I just have one question.
Who the hell is this "Hawkins" you keep talking about?
I know Killer fought a coward named Basil CHICKENS, but I don't remember seeing anyone named "Hawkins."
LOL
💀
W video the kidd pirates are mad underrated
Hard disagree with a lot of these points. Jimbei has internal destruction capabilities too with Demon Brick Fist. Fishman Karate is an internal destruction art because it attacks the water molecules in the body just like how Killer’s attacks are sound based and therefore do internal destruction damage by default. Killer’s sonic attacks and Jimbei’s Demon Brick Fist are comparable.
Jimbei also definitely low diffed Who’s Who. He fought the first leg of the fight 1vX. Once he got 1v1, he used a single named attack that instantly finished Who’s Who. He tanked some hits, but you’ll notice that Who’s Who was DEFINITELY wrong about Jimbei being torn apart by his attacks, as Jimbei literally tanks one with his face on purpose to prove a point and it fizzled out on his skin.
You also grant Killer feats like blocking “attacks from Kaido” that weren’t insanely strong. The Demolition Gust is not comparable to, say, a Thunder Bagua. Not even close. Kin’emon blocked comparable hits from Kaido to Killer’s blocks. Even then he only partly held them back and then got out of the way, not purely deflect them like Zoro did. But then you won’t consider Jimbei using his BARE HANDS to block a Magma Fist from Akainu a comparable feat? When most of the community agrees Akainu was the strongest admiral and was aiming to kill with that hit. Jimbei’s block is a hundred times more impressive than Killer’s. Killer managed to hurt Kaido, but his attack is literally the only one on the roof that Kaido didn’t compliment or acknowledge. Does that put him in YC1? I don’t think so. Having the ability to do 1% chip damage to Kaido doesn’t immediately put you in YC1 territory. Jimbei’s Demon Brick Fist would easily do just as much. Killer’s 1v1 was against a much weaker opponent than Jimbei’s - someone not even worthy to be Tobi Roppo. Killer is a member of the Worst Generation and was on the roof, so I can acknowledge the portrayal is definitely up there. But I’ll say one thing: I’d be interested to see what Killer’s bounty after Wano was. I’m willing to put a lot of money on him not being a billion berry man. And yes I know bounty does not equal strength, but it does have a lot to do with portrayal.
So do I think Jimbei is stronger than Killer? Maybe and maybe not. I think they both belong in YC2.
kaido didnt acknowledge kidd either
“needs more mass” is all he got.
You make some good points, i think its a good fight, But killer has shown better AP, and in terms of defense like i said jinbeis haki is better but killer has shown comparable if not better endurance feats. He also no diffed hawkins, who is at least on the tobi roppo level, granted he is weaker than whos who in my opinion
Also it depends when it comes to hurting kaido even the scabbards can, but they all got one shotted by a base kaido, killer was hanging in there the whole time. He didnt do asm as everyone else but jinbei would’ve been the weakest here too so its not really fair to use that argument against killer imo
@@D.Strawhat probably fair. Jimbei would also have been the weakest on the roof by far. I think everyone else on the roof was at YC1 to sub-Yonko class when they got up there.
@@D.Strawhat Ignoring Hax, Hawkins is weaker than all the Tobbi Roppo.
Kaido’s subordinates are ranked directly by strength. Apoo & Hawkins were lacking in raw power.
@@guardiantree8879 that’s just not true at all Hawkins at the start of wano is literally making zoro sweat fights law of screen and law is seen bloodied so he landed some hit and law had some difficulty But ofc this is after he hits law with a sea prism stone and apoo literally ko luffy and zoro avoids zoro 720 cannon attack and block drake and zoro at the same time takes a hit from kid and is still conscious literally fights against drake ofs and they seem relative since they were at stand still then they fight together against cpo apo was literally able to take cpo shigan to the neck and tanks it with armament haki there defiantly tobi roppo lvl not to mention Hawkins also doesn’t get one tapped he literally gets his arm taking and is still fighting then gets slammed yeah there defiantly around that lvl
I mean who who was got through Jinbei armament plenty of times he was able to cut Jinbei with fang pistol using hardening my and was even reacting to literally most of Jinbei attack plus with his shigan he got through quite few times poking through Jinbei armament then Jinbei reinforced his haki and got mad then beat who’s who. Who who even takes shoulder toss from jinbie which is named attack. Killer is way faster than Jinbei for one literal blocking kaido slashes and avoiding them blitz’s a base kaido with zoro leave dent in kaido neck and literally shows greater combat speed than act one luffy which jinbie has no speed or ap feats even close and you literally can’t prove that Jinbeis demon brick fist is as comparable I would like to say cause that is Jinbei literally strongest attack but you can prove that Jinbei literally hit bigmom with a attack forgot the name and does no damage the scabbards can also use ryou but none of there attack individual hurt more than killers attack theres lvl dura neg luffy dura neg luffys durag beg is stronger than anything Jinbei has done there’s even dura beg like the gamma knife. killer is just much faster has better ap the fact he was able to leave dent in kaido neck though it was joint attack has far greater feats than a act one luffy
But please make Sabo vs Rob Lucci vs jinbei because I want to know who is the best martial arts fighter and also make prime garp vs prime Whitebeard kizaru vs aokiji
we need to see more of sabo
Early i think
YESSS NEW VID FROM THE BEST POWER SCALER ON YT 😈
Man, how are you going to say that killer is better than Katauri and Luffy at the beginning of Wano, that's misinterpreting the series. On the roof Kaido wasn't fighting seriously at all, it's only when he defeats Luffy that it happens, second, Killer to "hurt" Kaido had to try to damage him internally, very different from what happened with Luffy at the beginning of Wano.
They forget that to hurt Kaido certain special skills are required, at the beginning of Wano Luffy had a very strong haki, but he didn't project it.
Also in resistance Jimbe resisted a blow from Akainu, that happens to Killer and he dies. If Jimbe put up with Big mom and Akainu, not to mention Ace's fruit, what makes you think Killer has something similar to those characters? not at all. Jimbe when he got serious, defeated Whos Who without a problem.
Killer is not at the level of a first commander, maximum of a third. Since Kaido was getting hit and not fighting seriously, many misunderstood the power levels on the rooftop.
bro said max third💀 as if jack would be on the roof going ham
@@D.Strawhat If Kaido had fought seriously from the start, he would have just beaten all five supernovas out there in a minute, and that's giving them some chance to fight back. The difference was huge, only Kaido was holding back for fun and that allowed them to damage him, and hence many supposed levels of powers made by the fandom.
do you think killer would use haki against Jimbei?
Why not? I can't say how strong it is since most of his attacks are sound attacks so it works the same as advance armorment
To the people saying killer was the weakest on the roof, for sure, but he was still fuckin up there. He wasn't better than 5 of the top 10 strongest people in the world, you got him.
I think it's so telling that killer gets shown off every time the worst generation is brought up. He's the only first mate to do so. Bepo is cool and all, but he never gets a title card yknow? He's on a different fuckin level
Amazing video if you watch this and still think jinbei stronger than its straight fanboyism !!!
Do a Zoro vs Law
Another misconception with kaido isn't just because you can hurt him means your attacks are stronger than those that can't. The 9 scabbards could hurt him because they knew adcoa, law could hurt him because his attacks ignore durability,and killer hurt him because his attack ignores durability. Killer hurting kaido doesn't speak much AP unless you want to say all above have higher AP than act 1 Luffy. Killer attack should show unless you know how it works which is with sound you can't stop it. With kiado you either have to have a technique that bypasses durability or have a attack that can break his durability. These aren't the same and killer didn't break kaido's but bypassed it. Law's injection shot is way weaker than a Kong gun yet it could hurt kaido while Kong gun didn't. It's not that law's attack was stronger but that it can bypass durability while Kong gun at the time had to break it which he couldn't.
Stop playing with Jinbei, he we would destroy killer if he would get serious!
Nah it would be a close fight theres no stomp on either side
@@D.Strawhat Close on land, i'll give you that, utterly destruction if close to or in water! 😈
@@Obizzy8 luffy would also lose to jinbei in water, hes the strongest fishman in the world thats not really a fair fight lmao
@@D.Strawhat Agreed, i hope we get see more of killer going forward 💪🏾
Do a Miss Goldenweek vs Kaido video. Definitely a low diff fight for Goldenweek.
Ong💀
@@D.Strawhat I’m playing lmao
Kuma vs Kid. This seems random but kid's power is magnetism and the opposite of that is repelling things. And Kuma's devil fruit's whole thing is repelling everything. It's a perfect match up. Great job on the vid btw, I rlly enjoyed it :).
We appreciate the Killer's respect 🙏
still gets one shotted from partial divine departure
That attack is far greater than anything Jinbe has taken btw. So what’s the point you’re trying to prove?
I think this a good battle, but I have Killer he was decent on the Rooftop and he washed hawkins, killer was still fresh too he could’ve helped him Kid and Law that big mom fight not saying he would’ve been good help but he would’ve been a good assist. @D.Strawhat
You’re contradicting yourself…
Killer bypassed Kaido’s defenses to damage him.
Because Kaido’s defenses are so high Killer has greater power…
Can’t use both arguments at the same time. If Killer’s attack ignores defenses it doesn’t matter how high of defenses Kaido has. It becomes irrelevant to how much attack Killer has.
Instead you’d have to look at damage done, which would be minimal & in fact in line with Jinbe’s best feats against Big Mom.
I’m not yet convinced Killer is YC3, while I’m confident Jinbe at least is.
High diff fight though because of Killers speed which might be his only advantage.
Im saying as of rn, killer has shown better AP because kaido is more durable than big mom and he actually did damage where as jinbei didnt do any damage to big mom. and in terms of defense its pretty comparable
even if jinbei did damage which im not sure of, killers feat would still be better cuz in terms of durability, dragon kaido> base kaido>>big mom
she’s extremely durable but kaidos defense is a whole other level.
@@D.Strawhat My disagreement though is that Killer’s feat is useless for scaling because it bypasses defenses/durability.
Like a telepath using their mind to knock out or hurt Wonder Woman or Superman. By no means does that mean the telepath is stronger or can overcome their physical defenses.
It’s a feat that it hurt Kaido but ultimately Zoro’s feat of scarring Kaido (though potentially causing less damage) is actually far superior because he actually had to overcome Kaido’s defenses & durability while Killer simply bypassed them.
If Killer actually did what Zoro did I’d agree with your conclusions.
@@guardiantree8879 even if that's the case that attack atleast was enough to hurt kiado which should still scale higher then any jinbei attack we have seen
Dude, the logic of "Killer could damage Kaido, so therefore, he must hit harder than pre-Udon G4 Luffy and Katakuri" is just so wrong. He has a specific TECHNIQUE that can damage Kaido, that does not mean his attack POWER is higher or that he hits harder. It is like trying to open a jar with your fists vs opening it with a tool. Is the person with the tool stronger than the one without? Another analogy would be "Is a person that knows computer science stronger than someone who doesn't?"
The reason for Killer or post-Udon Luffy being able to damage Kaido is not an increase in hitting power or superior AP, it is the gaining of the specific power needed for that matchup. Ryou is the TOOL necessary to do the job, by itself, it doesn't increase anything. It just allows you to inject your Haki inside someone.
Well said, people use that to downplay Katakuri’s attacking Power and how strong he is
I’m going to have to make some points here, big mom scratched her knee only bc she was heavily weakened at the time that was literally part of Bege’s plan to kill her, base Kaido would one shot beast form Kaido as he seems to only use this form for flight and when fighting weak characters similar to King and most other zoan users seem to imply that for zoan’s hybrid form is stronger than human form and human form is stronger than beast form, on top of that saying Jimbei didn’t get stronger since marineford/fishman island is the dumbest thing I’ve heard in my life, he went from fighting somewhat equally to a base luffy to wrecking who’s who who is stronger than Ulti who’s stronger than a post udon base luffy who is stronger than a g4 luffy at the end of whole cake/start of wano who is equal if not stronger than katakuri who absolutely rocked g4 luffy in the begin of the fight, besides that who’s who is crazy strong, he’s nearly as strong as Jack and Jimbei just low-mid diffed him while he was already fighting a lot of beast pirate fodder prior and Killer’s feat against Kaido isn’t very impressive when u consider that it is dura neg and he didn’t actually pierce his skin, the only other feats killer has is hitting zoro who at the time only had 2 swords and was caught off guard (and the other feats from that fight are dumb bc killer didn’t have his preferred weapons) and one shotting Hawkins who’s one of the weakest characters to the point I’d say that even Apoo could beat his ass and the only reason he didn’t get one tapped by killer is bc he’d kill Kidd with his df ability, his most impressive feat is probably tanking I think it was 2 head on attacks from big mom
ulti>post udon luffy is cap and that statement has already been debunked, If ur refering to the headbutt, luffy wasnt using ryou which is why he lost to ulti but was able to slam kaido with red roc in base. So clearly he held back on ulti. Which is why he said "i underestimated her" idk why that scaling is so popular its just wrong, yall forget what luffy did on the roof when u say things like that
Jinbei fishman karate is also duraneg and no he doesnt scale above kat, i already debunked the weird tobi roppo> post udon luffy scaling so many times💀 it literally just makes zero sense. And at best ur right he scales to jack. Which is still probably not true cuz jack showed better endurance by far cuz he fought multiple ppl stronger than who's who and still ended up in a 1v1 with inu who has advanced haki and can also scale above who's who and jinbei based on his feats.
Franky literally whooped somone relative to ulti and whos who and ur arguing ulti and whos who> Kat😂😂. Where did this sudden disrespect towards kat come in the community, idek if jinbei is beating doffy let alone katakuri. None of the tobi roppo are even touching katakuri
@@D.Strawhat jimbei is easily beating doffy and Katakuri heck even at the tame time, I seriously doubt any of the tobi roppo would get one tapped by Kaido (which he did to luffy in g4 in base) that same luffy is equal if not stronger than Katakuri
It could go either way, if it's on land the killer wins, if it's near a body of water then jimbei wins
Is the anime canon?
wano anime is closer to canon then the rest of the anime
W video but whos the strongest person you think current manga killer can beat
he caps at beating queen high diff, and high diff he loses to king and sanji cuz of the way he fights
killer slams imo
I love Killer but I don't see him handling Jimbei by himself. Hawkins was a certified bum and got low diffed. Whose who is a legitimate combatant who is arguably Commander level and got low-mid diffed. That on top of Jimbei having just better Haki skill, and them both being Solid intelligent Fighters I could see this going either way. It's a 50/50 for me but if I had to put my money on someone I'm putting it on Jimbei
Is Jimbei doing what Killer did to Kaido.
@@ayush9202 which is what? Barely damaging kaido and doing nothing, well he definitely would be doing more than that
@@daryussamuel4657 The only thing Jimbei was able to do to a weakened Big Mom was push her off the ship and he was using ocean water to do that. And Kaido is way more durable then Big Mom. There's no way Jimbei is even touching Kaido
@@ayush9202 if kinemon and kawamatsu can cut kaido you bugging if you think jimbei isn't doing better. Killer 3rd commander at best.
@@daryussamuel4657 read again my friend They didn't even reopened kaido's scar. Kaido was just shocked not hurt.
Also you really think Killer is at Jack level. For me Killer is between Queen and King level. Around Sanji level
Do king vs Kid.
Only reason I got Jinbei > Killer is cuz Killers a glass canon, atleast compared to Jinbei who tanked an few attacks from the strongest offensive df.
We gotta see a top 30
Great video! A lot of people don't think Killer is very strong but he is on Katakuri level.
facts
Jimbei mid diff Killer.
I can't see killer beating inu,neko,jack,denjiro, perospero, ashura doji who actually had feats with fighting a young Oden. Like how you guys gonna just jump killer to 1st commander. He can't beat a single 1st commander.
none of those characters besides oden would last 20 seconds on the roof, u acting like a tobi roppo member could've been on this rooftop💀
He's literally doing things that even queen wouldnt be able to do😂
@@D.Strawhat I'm confused, were inu,neko,doji and denjiro not on the roof with the nine scabbards before the supernova? Jack and perospero scale to inu and neko by proxy. So you are just being dis ingenious. Would killer of made any difference with the 9 scabbards? He would of just been another fill-in to be bodied. He was hard carried by the fact that everyone else was there also preoccupying kaido. Killer can't last 20 seconds against Kaido with just his attention, neither law, neither can kid either lol. So what are you really saying?
@@daryussamuel4657nah you’re just chatting right now. The fact that he was able to effortlessly deflect the same attacks from Kaido that the scabbards couldn’t do put’s Killer above them.
If i want a right hand man i want Jimbe. His just way useful overall
2:30 not valid argument since ace got beat up by BB and then tortured/sea stone drained at impel down (so its safe to assume his haki was drained from all this) while jimbei is relativelly clean at marinefort, we also have statements from jimbei claiming ace is way stronger both in the manga adaption of the novel and in the actual manga cannon himself. jimbei also got hit in the stomach area instead of his heart/lungs plus he is also a fishman so him surviving makes sense as even luffy could survive blows to the stomach
2:30 “hes barely above ace honestly”
thats why i said barely, cuz ace clearly had his entire guard down
@@D.Strawhat i think jimbei is bellow rookie ace definitevelly, theres no evidense to suggest that jimbei got stronger after to years when he is 40+ plus but there is for ace who already bested him. in fact evidense supports the idea jimbei remained stagnant as yamato could one shot ULTI but jimbei had to have an entire fight with page 1, the same yamato that ace bested. then you would say " then why is jimbei relative to that same ace?" cause jimbei uses water that counters fire and devil fruit user by extension so he counters ace, thats how he closed the gap
This is tough! but i think jinbei takes it!
Imo I think killer and jinbe is a toss up. I'll give it to killer just because the Kidd pirates don't need another L.
I agree nigga jimbe is goated but he not that goated maybe in a large body of water he could drown him but I doubt it I actually want everyone from the new gen to get stronger then jimbe
Big Mum did scratch her knee when she was in a weaker state and her durability went down somehow and if Jimbei was in had a bit more water he would have low diffed who’s who
if jinbei had water he would one shot killer cuz killer has a smile fruit. So yea in water jinbei wins but tbh he beats a lot of characters in the water
@@D.Strawhat yeah but killer is fast if they in close to a river they just keep attack each other from a far it would be close as jimbei has to go close to the surface and killer can track where he comes up to so he can send attacks right back at him
With all do, this video was not needed. You barley drop videos as is, and now u drop this killer vs jinbe. We alread knew the outcome. Can we gets some jjk stuff or OPM pls. Also yo ass put me on to Edgerunners, and I can’t stomp feeling sad sum times. Appreciate the vids tho keep it pushing.
Edgerunners ending was crazy💀
Didnt jinbei say ace after a fight with wb was beyond his level
Lmfao Kidd and killer are legit fucking done 🤣🤣🤣 shanks just bodied them but sure man they're gonna be a big part of the worst Gen
How do you they’re done?
Man killer did no damage on kaido Zoro did it all
sonic scythe was a solo attack 4:10
Killer vs Kid.
For me Killer is on the level of Sanji and if people think that Jimbei mid to low diff Sanji then it's ok
I disagree on killers attack power being that much higher given Luffy couldn't hurt kaido because he lacked ryuo. Kiku who I think we can agree isn't much stronger than pre udon Luffy did damage to kaido
Next vid zoro vs cp0
Close fight , they both are aroy 1st commander level what do you think is bounty of killer
Jinbei around yc1? also probably below 1 billion or barely over 1 billion
No way Jinbe is YC1 level
He is getting stomped by Katakuri, King, Marco
@@D.Strawhat sorry I wanted toa write 2
If only Killer was still alive to see more of him 😂
This didnt age well killer and kid got one shot lmao
jinbei>shanks?💀 jinbei would get one tapped too
@@D.Strawhat bro i was prob High when typing this 💀
People who think King has superior durability to Kaido have poor reading comprehension.
He does . Kaido got hurt by tatsumaki and the same attack did nothing to king.
@@mattc4266 you are so dumb lol enma is supereffective on kaido not king whats confusing or can you still not read
@@johanlieberthyperborean why is it super effective on Kaido and not king of Kaido has superior durability ?
He does, when his flames are on.
zoros ryou was hurting kaido and forced him to dodge. Zoro landed direct attacks in kings face and he laughed.
with his flames off he got dropped in three attacks, hes only more durable half the time.
@@D.Strawhatenma forced him to dodge big mom even says in that moment thats not a regular sword
Fax
Fr
Jinbei beats killer just like he beats Rob Lucci in martial arts power I'm sure Sabo beats jinbei as well in martial arts Power but tell me RokuShiki vs Fishman karate vs ryusoken which is better which
sabo is probably above killer, jinbei is not, I dont see why jinbei would be able to last on the roof, when even someone like katakuri or king would struggle.
But what Sabo beats jinbei like Rob lucci
Kid is not significantly stronger than jinbe and jinbe is stronger than killer
Who's Who > Jack.
debatable, if any of the tobi roppo can beat him it would be whos who imo
@@D.Strawhat We can agree on that much. I just think WW has better attack-power than Jack, and is signicantly faster + Rokushiki. Plus hes a carnivorous ancient zoan and jack is just an ancient zoan albeit a pretty formidable animal.
@@D.Strawhat I don't think so . Sulong form neko and inu are tiers above jinbei. And even base neko and inu have better ap feats then jinbei. Jinbei in water can't even hurt big mom. Whereas jack fought inu and neko without rest for days . Jack is just unlucky . He always fights an enemy way stronger then him.
@@wassup5946 Yes i have the top 4 scabbards above jinbei, and jack. The highest i can wank jinbei is jack level but thats debatable
but sulong scabbard beat him 1v1, ashura was going to beat his base form and he never used hybrid form on ashura but ashura never used ryou on jack. So even if they powerup ashura would still win probably
denjiro i think should be equal to ashura cuz they both stayed behind and trained for 20 years.
I think the only scabbards jinbei beats are raizo, izo, kiku, kanjuro, and maybe kawamatsu but even they (besides raizo) might be above jinbei.
@@D.Strawhat yup bro scabbards are underrated . People forget there ryuo was trained by oden. And oden's ryuo is one of the best in series.And I thin denjiro is stronger then Ashura because he gave king a tough time 20 years before and in his fight with 2 swords(pre Emma) zoro he was not going all out and still gave zoro trouble.zoro acknowledged his strength.
killer low diffs
7:43
Lol captain useless midd
second
Agreed with everything in this video until you said Killer AP was greater than Kat. Just because his ability bypasses durability does not give it more force than an attack that could not apply its force without first penetrating that durability.