Even SMSL are CONFUSED by their DAC lineup! SMSL SU-9 Ultra
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
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A review of the SMSL SU-9 Ultra DAC featuring the AKM AK4191EQ + AK4499EX DAC chip combo. Review includes comparisons with the SMSL DO300, Topping D70 Pro OCTO and Geshelli Labs J2S AK4499 DACs.
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00:00 Introduction
01:36 Features & specs summary
02:10 Sound quality
02:38 SMSL SU-9 Ultra vs DO300
03:18 SU-9 Ultra vs Topping D70 Pro OCTO
07:02 SU-9 Ultra vs Geshelli J2S AK4499
09:37 Design & interface
11:49 XLR vs RCA output quality
14:55 Final conclusions
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#audiophile #audioreview #dac - Наука та технологія
The ESS is on there because it’s made in a factory that also uses ESS. So those with ESS allergies should be aware 😂
LOL. I love this!
Can't wait for you to review the SMSL SU-X !!!!!!!!!!!!
It was meant to be coming, but never eventuated so I'm probably not reviewing that one...
Great review as always thank you Lachlan. Got both J2S AKM and Octo from your reviews and totally agree with your assessments. Geshelli J2S AKM still sounds best to my music library👍👍👍
Glad you liked the video and even gladder you're enjoying the gear!
I am currently running smsl su9n+sh9 with hd660s2 and its my end game setup after owning mumtiple different amps and dacs and all the Sennheiser headphones from hd555 to hd800 I settled on this and couldn't be happier
Glad you're enjoying your setup. Happy listening!
GM ❄️☕️ from Toronto.
I’ve given up finding my next DAC …I’m probably going to get the Eversolo 8 as to upgrade from my current Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC …
Food for thought 💭
Enjoy the weekend.
Sounds like a good plan to me! 🙂
I have a SMSL D0300 coming today but the SU -9 Ultra is better.,nice. I can't keep up with all of these product releases. Great review as always.
That's why get bifrost 2/64 and you can find peace for a while. Even if dacs are better for the price they'd be different enough. Better than same same but better. 😂
Yes, the never ending flow of new models from Topping, SMSL, etc. makes it hard to know what's "safe" to buy without becoming redundant.
I do tend to agree that the Bifrost 2/64 is a great choice for that reason. It's already excellent, still as good or better than anything else at the price, and isn't going to be superseded rapidly.
Great review! Makes me wonder the long term reliability for many of these new DACs that seem to be released every month or so.
There is no real concern with reliability that I've come across. In many cases, each model is an incremental upgrade on a previous one so they've already got reliability sorted.
Hey ! Thanks again for wonderful review . Have you tried their d1se dac ? I I wonder how they compare each other . Thanks 🙏
I'm glad you liked the review. Unfortunately, I haven't tried the D1SE.
Great review. Will you be reviewing the smsl DO400 possibly? I’d be interested to see if you prefer the DAC in that. I’m currently using it with the Toppjng A70pro.
I don't currently have any plans for that one - sorry
Mr. Lachlan! Thank you for posting.
Always a pleasure!
Topping E70 Velvet also uses the same chipset. I do believe the Topping is listed at USD $449.00, so cheaper. This would have made a good comparison of how each company executed their design.
Yes. Unfortunately, I can only work with what I can get my hands on. The channel's not big enough yet to be able to afford to buy all the products out there. 🙂
Can you please review SU-X? I think that unit is awesome.
I was meant to be getting one in, but haven't heard about it. I'll have to see...
I agree that trying to keep up with the many overlapping iterations coming out of SMSL/Topping every month can get frustrating so my apologies for adding fuel to the fire here: another similarly priced comparison to the SU-9 Ultra could be the SMSL DO300EX, which has the same AKM pairing and an i2S input (regular DO300 being ESS) and it comes with a headphone amp (the DO300 does not)
That would be a very interesting one to try, especially via the IIS input!
@@PassionforSound I was so confused too, but after some research, it seems like DO300EX is a much better value. It has the same DAC chip AK4191+ AK4499EX, XMOS XU-316, CK-03 clock, and I2S input... It also comes with a decent AMP, and it is priced even lower than the Su9 Ultrade.
What's sweeter, they were on sale a couple days ago, selling at ~ $330 and I was lucky to snag one :)
Brilliant! I hope you love it!
lol great catch!
wonder how software support will be for it, ess drivers? lol
Thankfully, the drivers are for the USB receiver chip and they use the same Xmos brand chips in all versions AFAIK 😁
Did you test the DAC'S on speakers or headphones?
Nice review 👍
Both. I'd tend to do my detailed listing tests on headphones, but also listen with speaker during the general listening period as I get used to the device and what it's like to live with.
2:20
During recent testing, using my new HiFiMan Edition XS, playing a CD "rip" of my John Farnham album, I failed to notice any tangible difference between my USD$2,500 Lynx Hilo AD/DA converter system and my USD$60 Hidizs S9 Pro dongle DAC, so...
100% brotha! None of these buffoons/charlatans will participate in a level-matched abx, as they know they’ll fail to distinguish between any two decently designed DACs.
All the “reviewers” (in this format) are spreading misinformation, in addition to exploiting the bank accounts (and veil-lifting hopes) of those who are new to the hobby, or to have their choices/biases confirmed.
Pretty lame. Like a late night tv infomercial from the 90’s in many ways. Not sure how these bottom feeders sleep at night, or are ethics considered “offensive” these days? 👏🏻👎🏻✋🏽
I'm the first to say that most DACs built on off-the-shelf chips like ESS and AKM (except the new AK4499EX) will sound much the same and can be hard to separate. This is because they are all using much the same reconstruction processes and filters so the only room for improvement is better control of noise and jitter, but that's going to result in very small improvements in things like the ability to hear the finest details and/or a smoother and more refined sound, particularly in the treble.
Before being disrespectful and rude, you should consider the evidence of someone's body of work. I've got many examples on my channel where I have said that the differences are tiny and insignificant or completely nonexistent (e.g. SMSL DO200 Mk 2 vs DO300 video). It's also why I tend to recommend DACs like the Schiit Bifrost 2, Chord DACs and now the DACs using AK4499EX chips - because they're taking a different approach and it's producing a noticeably better sound IMO.
One further thing to add is that the Edition XS is not a headphone I would expect to reveal differences between high end and lower end devices. It's a decent, entry level to mid tier headphone, but not one that I would consider a reference for high end gear tests.
@@PassionforSound, disrespectful and RUDE? 😳
Did you know that in ancient Bhārata (India), a person who consumed ANY type of animal was known as a “chandāla” (dog-eater) and was not even included in mainstream society, but was an outcast?🥩
So when a DOG-EATER such as yourself presumes to judge and instruct a member of the Holy Priesthood (The World Teacher Himself, in my particular case), it is rather amusing (and, of course, totally evil).👿
Bless You Always, Mr. DOG-EATING beta-male! 😇
Incidentally, Mr. Chandāla, posting multiple comments in quick succession is a symptom of IMPETUOSITY, a distinctly feminine trait. 🙄
I would wager that you are the product of a single mother, SILLY Sinful Slave. 👶🏻
@@PassionforSound agreed..... if uses at least Ayra organic will definitely tell the difference
Could you make a video talking about DSD, PCM/PWM/PDM, and flaq/wav/mp3 and whatnot
I'm actually working on something along those lines right now. Stay tuned... 😉
There would be no reason for you to remember a dialogue you had with a garden-variety commentator like yours truly, but in case you do remember (it was in the thread below the video about the AO200 and AL200 and a Topping whose model number I don't remember) I finally got the AO-300 and it's doing extremely well. No surprise at this point but it's punching *way* above its weight. The only thing holding back a recommendation is that at $280-ish, it seems to me like it's getting squeezed pretty aggressively by the Fosi products from below and the new Wiim integrated from above. I haven't heard the Wiim but if it's as good-sounding as people say it is, you'd be getting full streaming capabilities and Wiim's proprietary app for an extra $20. So the AO300 would have to really clobber it on sound quality, to be the better choice. Still, I've got the AO300 and I don't stream, so I'm happy. :-)
I'm so glad you're enjoying the AO300 so much. I hope to get the WiiM Amp in for review once stock levels allow for them to send me a loaner. It'll be interesting to see if it's really worth the hype...
Danke!
Many thanks, Rainer! 🙏
I have a failed SMSL SU-9n. I'm not sure if the quality is really there when it comes to SMSL. Sound was okay but reliability seems very poor.
Sorry to hear that! Unfortunately, all brands have product failures, but I haven't heard about (or experienced) any significant number of failures across SMSL products. (I.e. I've never had one fail and rarely hear people speak of issues in the comments). Of course, even one failure can damage your trust in a brand though, so I understand.
I just got a DL200 & DL300, looking for a AIO for a new room. I'm also confused. Compared to say my E50/L50 stack, the DL200 doesn't have the same speed, warmth, or resolution, and the DL300 with the AKM4499 is 'different', more open, and more resolution, but more laid back. I tested with both L50 and internal HP amps of the SMSL's. I really enjoy the E50/L50 stack. I want the same sound but maybe more width and resolution. What would be the equivalent SMSL upgrade to E50/L50 stack (either AIO or separate components)?
I'm not 100% certain of this, but maybe the SMSL M500 Mk3.
All this sounds great but how does the DAC of a Fiio K7 stack up against a stand alone DAC?
The FiiO DACs are pretty great. It won't match something like the SU-9 Ultra, but it will be up to the same standard as some of the $200-300 DACs using ESS and lower level AKM chips.
As these DAC of-the-month brands keep releasing new premium models, can they compete with older Pontus or Yggdrasil or do those premium DACs still have an edge for the extra $1k? Great review!
I doubt they're anywhere close to a Pontus or Yggdrasil. I have a backup SMSL DO200 and my Chord Qutest is a far better listening experience.
@@YouSoundButtHurt many thanks 👍
Gustard a26 r26 seem to do so.
AKM and ESS update their chips once every few years and have higher models within the range like 4499, 4499EQ, 4499EX... more excuse for Topping and SMSL to punch out more products
You may be missing the point of high-end audio.
Beyond a certain threshold, things are no longer “just better” than high-end product.
High-end is about tailoring sound to your preferences.
ChiFi isn’t in competition with the likes of Pontus, Yggy, Holo May, etc. because they’re just talking vanilla implementations of these DAC chips and trying to push SINAD and low THD.
Some people love the slight second or third harmonic distortion present in some of the R2R DACs.
The D400 Pro is also out now with the same chipset as the SU-9 Ultra and is about 100 more and idk what is different other than the addition of the I2S port ? Then there is the flagship by smsl the D400 EX which contains 2 of the AKM chips if you have heard it do you think the SU-9 Ultra is better than the SU-9 Pro with the ESS chip? And I guess which chip maker have you typically preferred ESS or AKM?
I haven't tried any of those others so I'm not much help there - sorry.
Traditionally, I've never had a favourite DAC chip brand because they've all been so similar. The AK4499EX and the Cirrus Logic OCTO setup are the first two real steps forward in chip-based Delta Sigma DACs that we've heard in ages IMO.
I watched the whole video even though I have no intent to upgrade from my SU-1. Poor me.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Would this or the Octo be a good upgrade to the dac in the Wiim pro plus?
Yes, I think both are a solid step up. Probably not a huge step and the degree of improvement you'll hear also depends on your amp and speakers/headphones, but those two DACs are both better than the WiiM Pro Plus
I wonder how this compares with the Eversolo DAC Z-6 for the same money.
The DO300 was as good or better than the Z6 (if we're just talking about sound) and the SU-9 Ultra clearly beats the DO300 IMO.
This one compared with eversolo dac z8 which one is better than ?
The DAC-Z8 is way nicer to use, but the AK4499EX in the SU-9 Ultra gives it an edge on soundstage which I think is important.
@@PassionforSound thank you for give me that information. I help me alot 😍
The SMSL SU-X. Worst naming convention yet 😅.
Id have to go back to a headfi comment but there was a count on SMSL alone having over 23 DAC's all redundantly competing with themselves nevermind Topping etc. Pumping out a mountain of redundancy and Pro (amp/dac combos) versions.
I completely agree on all counts...
I wonder how much the reviewers have contributed to these frequent product launches. Lot of reviews are nowadays like infomercials for Amazon brand low-fi equipment. Every product is the best something under a $ threshold, the end game.. Literally every week. The worst feedback they give is picking a very obscure thing and saying it is very good but not great, or it is not bad it’s just preference. There are never clear comparisons. Every product is fantastic it just depends on this and that. I feel like lot of reviewers are more like peddling these products and companies are capitalizing on it while they can.
That's a very interesting question and a hard one to answer. I know, as a reviewer, there is often pressure to review something quickly when it's first released and I often have to decline because I have a full schedule and also do not believe in feeding the hype train. Whether it's the reviewer's creating the cycle or just responding to it - I'm not sure...
I’ve lost touch with Topping, SMSL, etc… with them churning out something new every week or 2? Or did I get it wrong that they actually launch 2 every week? Then there’s the “mid range” Gustard, Denafrips all the way to higher end Holo.
SMSL is the main offender here.. they're running out of digits to name their models
Yes, I'd agree that SMSL seem to be the worst for this
@@PassionforSound HFM is terrible at naming or not naming. Naming both their AIO (DAC+Amp) and pure headphone Amp as Prelude makes buying tricky. Then, not naming upgraded new versions of their headphones is a problem too. Sony just get their staff to fall onto the keyboard and see what comes up
So true about the random number naming. HiFiMan's amp and AIO are the Prelude and Serenade though 😉
@@PassionforSound Lachlan, the HFM AIO is Prelude Pro, the amp is Prelude. In chinese, the Serenade is the little Prelude 😂
I got the adi 2 dac and still feel like it was overkill....
The ADI-2 was sadly an over-hyped (although highly featured) version of all of the rest of these because it uses the same DAC chip as much cheaper more simple and cheaper DACs. Unfortunately, while the power supply and output stage of a DAC can influence its sound, it will never overcome the limitations of the chip at the core of the device.
If i had 600 to spend, i would get the chord mojo 2 honestly… very solid crossfeed, amazing sound, portable, EQ ….
I don't know how the mojo 2 sounds but I upgraded from OG mojo to smsl su9+sh9 and it's night and day difference
Not a bad way to go honestly.
I had compared the Mojo2 with the J2S 4499ex with the Sparkos op-amps on my system, and found the Mojo2 had just a little bit more sound quality, but I recognized I was splitting a few hairs and that they were basically equivalent.
The only issue with the Mojo2 is that you can't add an external LPS to enhance the sound.
I had just added a custom LPS from Pine Tree Audio to my J2S yesterday and the improvements were nothing short of amazing...much deeper soundstage, more dynamics, slightly warmer and more confident sound (hard to describe in words).
With the price of the Mojo2 dropping as much as it has, an argument can be made that it is now a good value 👍
The Mojo 2 is probably slightly better than the SU-9 Ultra as a DAC, but it's also less convenient in some ways due to its small size, less input options and only having 3.5mm outputs. Both are nice devices so hard to go wrong.
Chord mojo better ?
Yes. It's a bit fiddly in terms of size and inputs/outputs, but the sound is superior.
@@PassionforSound thanks bud ! Loooove my mojo paired with Feliks euforia
That would be lovely! Happy listening!!
I bought the original Su-9 and was quite disappointed.
The Ultra is definitely better. I understand your disappointment with the regular one
I know I'm going to sound like a Boomer, out in his yard yelling at clouds, but... as someone who listens to music 95% via physical media (vinyl), I am absolutely baffled how you guys keep all these similar looking little black boxes straight?! It seems like every week SMSL, Topping, Gustard, Oversold, etc., etc. will come out with a "new Dac or streamer" (or dac/streamer) that looks pretty much like it's predecessors.
Well, some might wonder why vinyl collectors buy so many different versions of similar “reissues” of the same records while they’re pretty much the same.
Don't need to keep them straight. Just buy one and be done with it
@gomdoryzoa that's a fair point. I in no way meant to imply some of us analogue guys aren't neurotic!
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 No, I’m saying that each group of people buy dacs or vinyls becasue they believe that the seemingly small differences can actually bring meaningful improvements in sound quality at least to them, respectively.
It's great fun, but I would suggest people buy a high spec DAC amp (DAC headphone) and stick with it for awhile, otherwise your wasting brass, jezz I once had this argument where this guy kept spouting all DACs sounded the same (Really) Passion for sound knows his stuff and I would have zero hesitation checking out his recommendations. . I bought the Mez neo headphones at first they were boomy a tad, now they have settled, there insanely good for the price . So thank you for that .
Only proves my point about just way too many DACs in the world here and the house as Shenzhen or Guangzhou. Crazy, and just plain careless and proof reading the site is all it takes to keep the prospect informed. Plain inexcusable. If you are the authority on your product, least you can do is be accurate. I buy both the Topping and SMSL frequently. So my money has to go to what I am, or believe I am paying for.
Yes, it's a bit of a mistake from them and might be a reflection of the degree of care and thought going into each new design (not from a quality perspective, but a uniqueness and continuous improvement perspective)
Exactly why I won't buy from these brands.
Wutever it is SU 1 is the best frm em so far... Peace!
I simply choose to not support this Chinese hyper consumerism practice.
These ChiFi companies have created a race to the bottom.
My Schiit sounds wonderful while being upgradable, saving additional waste from the landfill.
I’m content. That’s something you don’t hear very often in this hobby.
Still it's hard to resist a Chinese dac like the SMSL su-1 @79$ that blows the Schiit out of the water , ...
Except that it doesn't...
@@PassionforSound huh? 😆
The SU-1 doesn't blow the Schiit products out of the water. I was replying to Virus (sorry for not tagging - the UA-cam creator app doesn't handle comments so well)
Wave theory said he liked the DO300 more than the octo. You guys are kinda opposite ends of the spectrum.
I do not know if burn in with dacs objectively exists or if my mind is playing tricks on me, but I didn't enjoy the octo at first and from my personal experience it did open up and got more controlled after about 150 hours by an astonishing margin, so that could be the reason for the disagreement. I am really suprised how rich and natural sounding it is now.
@@user-xj5il6kb9y The octo would have to be miles better than the D70 pro sabre. It was very "not special" sounding. I much prefered the way cheaper SMSL D6s. The D6s is soooooo good for the money.
playlist also makes a big difference
@@ancientalien815 i never heard the sabre version, for comparisons to me the D90 is very "not special" sounding but detailed and I do enjoy the dac from the Hifiman EF400 for its lush musicality despite having less detail retrieval. When I got the octo I thought it was a downgrade from both, now I enjoy it more than both like the best of both worlds. Never heard SMSL so I cannot comment on that but I would love to hear the one with a ROHM chip at some point.
I'm surprised to hear that Brian preferred the DO300. It's a solid DAC, but nowhere near the OCTO or SU-9 Ultra in terms of staging and even tonality IMO.
However, if he's running something like a Violectric headphone amp with these DACs, the OCTO might have gotten a touch too full bodied with that combination of DAC and amp.
I think everyone should stay away from these products especially for the long run…. But it may be an unreasonable fierce behavior from me on these kind of products.
The SMSL SU-9 Mega Super Ultra Pro will be out by March
There's unfortunately no denying that they're making SOME excellent sounding products at very good prices so it's hard to recommend that people stay away completely. The SU-9 Ultra is one example that I do think is worth considering.
@@PassionforSound for someone like me who loves when the product is made with passion and inspired people, like feliks audio, trafomatic, chord, ZMF and many other good audio brands, if i see products like this i immediately discard them unfortunately.
DACs and amps all sound the same anyway. Don't worry about it.
I have 10 dacs each one sounds different from the other , ...
🤡
hi, I need your opinion on the pairing of SMSL SU 9 ULTRA and SMSL AO 200MKii. Since your opinion was crucial for me and I bought the SMSL SU 9 ULTRA, I need your honest suggestion as to which amplifier could be paired with it. I also own a Topping E50 and L50, maybe some combination with them. Thanks.
If you don't also need the E50, replacing it with the SU-9 Ultra makes a lot of sense. The AO200 MK2 is a really solid choice for a D-Class amp too so that would be a nice setup.