Yoshi-P NOT Shocked?! | Zepla reviews PC Gamer article on Community Reaction to FFXIV DAWNTRAIL MSQ
Вставка
- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- Watch Zepla play FFXIV LIVE on her Twitch channel here: / zeplahq
📺 Follow me on Twitch: / zeplahq
👕Check out the new Merch Store: streamlabs.com...
🤗 Support me on Patreon: / zeplahq
🗣 Official Discord server: / discord
🐦 Follow me on Twitter: / xepla
Editor : TakLunae [Discord : taksangre]
![YOSHI-P SAYS: STAY SUBSCRIBED | Zepla discusses his comment on time-consuming content [FFXIV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8b40-qD3ZaM/mqdefault.jpg)
![HOW MANY LINES?! | Zepla checks out the 2.0-7.1 MSQ Dialogue Analysis [Final Fantasy XIV: Dawntrail]](/img/n.gif)
My takeaway from this i interview. Yoshi-P decided to take a chance on new writers, and a new direction. Even if he wasn't confident in immediate success. However, if this corner of the community is any indication. That gamble did not pay off. While he never quite went there. He got mighty close to throwing shade on himself, and the writing team for the game in this interview. And if this is what is being said publicly. In house, must be a bit of a mess right now. I've never heard Yoshi-P offer anything but praise for this games writing since 2.0. Until now.
Ishikawa and Oda are senior story designers. If he is giving shit to anyone, it's those two. You know, the people responsible for leading the team.
@@Zerg121 Probably. But as I said He doesn't name names here. I doubt that we will ever be made privy to exactly what happened, behind the scenes.
It's a bit of a chuckle in Asia watching you praise NY. He was a loser at school, a flat failure over time. His team and those along side him saved the tatters of 14. He did nothing. Yet you praise him like some sort of deity. Very strange behavior from the Eastern perspective.
I find it very strange that Yoshi P is talking about Dawntrail so detached from it. Like he's talking as if he weren't the director of it.
Hmm 🤔
He's still the director but he probably did just factually have a lot less time to be as hands on as he usually is since he did ffxvi too
That’s kind of the way you have to view things if you’re going to be objective about it.
Ive said there was zero chance he was currently playing the game since I saw what they did with BLM. We all know he plays BLM as a main and it was UNPLAYABLE when the expansion first came out. If he had been still playing he would have spotting this in 10 min of playtesting...
I think he has handed the reins to someone else under him and he is currently busy with another project but hes got such high player recognition that Square Enix decided to keep his name on the top of it and use him for press events.
@@Spartan1312 I agree with this 100%. I feel like He’s done emotionally with Ffxiv his heart just isn’t in it he wants to do something new I mean i don’t blame him at all and hope we can get more from him that isn’t attached to this game. FFXIV will start going the Wow route and Hopefully Yoshi P can actually flourish with NEW projects. That’s what I hope at least
Just bring back Ishikawa or someone who is actually good at writing characters and dialogue lol. I hate how soulless a lot of the characters felt. Alphinaud was literally citing wikipedia articles the whole expansion…
all you people who say bring back Ishikawa, its not like she's not involved in writing the story anymore, she's literally the supervisor, this shit has to be approved by her lmao
@@BobbyRoss-xt8jp well the dialogue was noticeably worse this time around and I wish it was better. Honestly I don’t really care who is writing the msq as long as it’s good.
I honestly blame the voice acting, for the entire cast (with a few exceptions in Koana, Bakool Ja Ja, Goolol Ja Ja, Zoral Ja and Erenville). It felt flat and unenthused. Forced and cheap. It doesn't help we spent so much time with Wuk, but her voice lines felt flat, there are good moments, but those are for minor moments, while the big moments get a bad delivery...
I saw the MSQ with JP's voice acting and it felt way better. Still not the best, but I don't expect gold from new writers, but it was ok. SB post-Azim Steppe levels of good.
It was approved and overlooked by them yes. Westerns don't think objectively however, I believe the term you throw around is 'copium'. Westerns are ignorant and brainless, it's taken advantage of here in the East way more than you might think.
It peaked in Heavenward and Stormblood for me, when character death was slightly more unpredictable. Our last real consequence was Papalymo and that was in Heavensward. Shadowbringers was nothing more than the Emet Selch show and Endwalker needed to be split in 3 expansions it was so crammed and hamfisted.
I hate that people try to use Endwalker as an excuse for Dawntrail. You can tell a new story, a new beginning, a new whatever, a new 10 year setup and do it well, it has nothing to do with Endwalker or the previous story. You can start over, introduce new characters, have a smaller plot, a smaller adventure, etc. and have it work out. But they didn't do that. They know we like the scions and wanted to spend more time with them, but the scions felt like an afterthought that were hastily added to fill dungeon rosters. The way the story is written they might as well not even be in it. They said there wouldn't be a villain of the week world ending threat every expansion and that they'd have smaller stakes for a while, but we got another world ending threat anyways. They said we'd be a mentor for Wuk Lamat, but we might as well have been her pet rock, just there for her to talk to occasionally.
They could've done this exact plot but better, paced it better, had someone proof-read the plot, story board it out and actually make sure its cohesive, write the characters better, and people would've loved it. This exact plot wasn't just doomed to fail from the beginning, it was the execution that made it so rough.
Not to mention the whole trailer for Dawntrail focuses on us and the scions, and yet that couldn't be further from what we got.
Exactly! Hit the nail on the head.
ARR told a new story a new beginning, a new whatever quite well for its time. Should have taken a page out of ARR's playbook and we would have had a better time.
Thank you! So many people keep falling on the "we just had endwalker, this is the beginning to a new story, you need to give it time." Like...what??? A new arc can be well written and engaging without having. The massive highs that accompany an arc conclusion story. I just don't get those people
Exactly this, it's insane how some people act like it was impossible to have a good story just because it was the start of a new arc. Other games manage to tell great stories in a lot less time than the time it takes to get through DT.
"Damn, I guess we should have made Wuk Lamat fully self-assured and confident in herself from the outset. THEN the player's would have loved her".
Yoshi P needs to go get Ishikawa right fucking now.
Yeah, that scares me too. Wuk Lamat lacking confidence at the beginning is the best part about her. The problem is how they executed her development & dialogue and her screen time. She would've been even worse if her character had no reason to develop...
Yoshi been reading too much US twitter lol
that's not what it said at all though...
@@TheExcessus 9:09 it is though...
They blame her "lack of confidence" for the slow pacing.
@@SageTigerStar lack of confidence is not the same thing as lack of understanding of the people and/or the world. They spent a pretty large amount of unvoiced AND voiced cutscenes dealing with her lack of confidence in... the air... the water... etc....
You're reading translated text, try and use a smidgen of respect to actually understand the context of what is being said instead of just using the worst way you can spin it and then attributing that to the speaker, whom you did not hear say the words you are repeating. aka "we shouldn't have given her development of any kind" lmao....
They really failed the bare minimum of delivering a "vacation" 😔
yeah i was expecting like some beach scenes with your hero lying on the beach with a drink and new characters, we didn't even get too enjoy our hotel room that we got for free. all these calm scenes we used to get to relax and laugh in previous expansions where gone.
we weren't even going there for a vacation in the first place, what are you on about?
@@hufflepuffler2575 They sold the story as a vacation for our character
@@MarcusMaybenot You don't know much about Final Fantasy games do you ? Keep blaming fans for telling the truth...
Never let the DT writter cook again
It obviously wasn't a single writer, it's a team
@@SugarPopoto oh my bad. Never let THEM cook again
@@Spaghetty probably largelyy the same writing team that worked on endwalker so how is that going to work?
@@Shaijn815 purge and renew
@@Shaijn815every expansion has a lead writer. They’re the one that’s meant to direct the writers. For EW and Shadowbringers it was Ishikawa.
Especially in Japanese companies. The fault of the employees is the fault of the team lead
In the end it felt like a Disney movie written for 10 year old's with ADHD. Where you keep getting beaten over the head with "peace and happiness" in fear that you might forget it and that's the only way the world works. Backed with the Disney music didn't help much either....*smile*.
Using the excuse that it is a new arch on a new continent does not excuse bad writing. Every expansion took you to a new continent with new cultures and new characters. Shadowbringers even took you to a new world with it's own story and lore, yet they didn't spend 2/3's of Shadowbringers on just fleshing out the world. By lvl73 you knew almost all the important bits, with the rest being fed to in small bits during the rest of the game without dragging the story down.
I don't think anyone expected something mind blowing, but even the start of an arch can still be written well.
"10 year old's with ADHD" isn't how Naruto is?
Very well put. I'm really annoyed by people writing off criticism by using the "it's the start of the new arc" excuse (And also seeing it come from Yoshi P is also quite sad). There are so many things wrong with the MSQ that generalizing the problems under one banner really does not help anyone.
This. I had low expectations because I knew it *couldn’t* compare to ShB and EW. But this msq was such an enormous departure from the themes of previous stories. There’s always been a hopeful outlook in FF stories but it does that while also touching on some very real shit. And there were so many opportunities in DT for good stories. Fuckin’ let Wuk Lamat fail. Give her some actual challenges and let us actually advise/help her. I can’t believe someone spent two years and this was what they came up with and I hate it. 😭
I'm seeking damages for the frontal lobotomy I experienced playing this MSQ
@@PhyrusEmperor this has been the case since A realm Reborn lol it’s always been a soft ass story of friends and peace and happiness lmfao
but the point is not because it's not as world ending or high stakes as endwalker, it's that the way they started the new story arc is bad. i think yoshi - p misunderstood the critisisms which makes me worried for the future of the story
This is similar to how Blizzard misinterpreted the feedback over the years and incorrectly made the wrong corrections
Maybe you should watch the video past the first two minutes
@@csrjjsmp i did, his reasons to why its mixed is wrong
Heavensward was essentially a new start too and it had a compelling story and interesting lore outside of the H/Z arc. The deflection to the new start argument is so bad and as you mentioned, does not inspire hope that they will return to form for the patch content plot.
@@csrjjsmphim talking about Wuk lamat and pacing is further in than 2 minutes. The problem was with the character writing and wuk being 1 note. So yeah him thinking it’s all pacing and wuk not being confident enough is concerning
"We knew we had an inferior product but we wanted to blindtest paying customers anyway" lol can you imagine someone without Yoshi P's glowing reputation basically saying some bs like that
💯
So, you're basically saying that Yoshi P decided to take the Todd Howard approach to this expansion's release?
@@DJ_Bonebraker It just works!
It's giving me an upset stomach at the prospect of having to quest with Wuk Lamat again...
If she's heavily involved in 7.1 I might just quit until 8.0.
@@TeemoTemosson How are you going to reach the 8.0 quests then?
@@MellowMink If 7.1 through 7.55 is full of Woke Lmao then I'll just story skip if 8.0 is good. Otherwise I'll just play something else.
@@TeemoTemosson"Full of woke." What.
@@MellowMink Woke Lmao = Wuk Lamat
My problem is that he didn't address the main issue. Which is dialogue writing. Dialogue quality is considerably worse than Ishikawa's in ShB and EW. I hope they're aware of that issue and I'm glad at least he acknowledges the pacing and too much Wuk Lamat. (Though the main issue with her is dialogue writing & execution. Not her being unsure & how she develops as he seems to think) DT's story is great in concept, the execution is what the issue is. Yoshida seems to think it's because EW was a climax but it's not. It's that the execution of DT's great story concept wasn't good. Last zone hit the feels, but it could've hit even more if it was all executed properly. And that's coming from me, someone who actually liked DT quite a bit, because of last two zones.
I asked. Didn't ask for you needlessly aggro comment though.
They might be aware but are trying to not directly say it's the writer's fault for PR reasons or even to avoid harassment. Let's hope!
The problem with this tho, is it's an opinion, not a fact. Plenty of people loved Wuk Lamat. Plenty didn't. Neither side is wrong because its preference not a statement of fact.
@@Narlaw1199 Aggro? I actually really liked DT. Last zone was almost as good as ShB and EW stuff to me. Up there with 3.3. It's just that dialogue is considerably better in ShB & EW & even HW. I'm not aggro at all. I f-ing love this game and team. ShB & EW is genuinely my favorite story of all time, in any media.
@@PetarBladeStrok Someone asked ''who asked for your personal opinion'' then deleted the comment, that previous comment isn't directed at you, some troll just want to sow discord.
The main issue for me is that they turn our characters into npc, some random security detail for Wuk Lamat.
It isn't so bad just being "along for the ride" for the first half, but it's the fact that it continues to feel like that after the midpoint, when Wuk shouldn't have been the main focus anymore. She got her Dawnservant title, her story is basically done, now it's our turn to take the reigns and carve out the rest of the story for ourselves, but she tags along and steals the spotlight for that too. I think we very much didn't need her Deus Ex Machina-appearance in the final trial. We're fine taking the backseat for a bit in the game, and if it had just been for that first half, that wouldn't have been an issue.
I feel like our character could have been replaced with literally anyone else and the story would have been the same. That could have been fine, but the execution we got was really a let down.
I honestly enjoyed Shaloanni the most as a zone since thats when it felt like what Dawntrail promised. A lower stakes adventure in a new land, stopping some local thugs and doing good because we can, with our character finally having some sort of involvement.
@@Happyjuice912 It was so nice to get that break from Wuk Lamat, to actually be more then an npc.
@@SageTigerStar That's fair; she probably could have been more of a support character during the second half. I don't mind her being more of the main lead during the earlier application process though since it was an interesting change of pace from the usual pattern of us being a walking nuke in increasingly apocalyptic situations that last for an entire expansion or post-expansion rather than just part of it.
I've never seen a dev with such a good track record learn such a wrong lesson from their mistakes.
In the first hour of Shadowbringers we met a woman, the concept of the sineaters, and the same woman transforming into one. That was shocking and good. Here we have nothing for the full first 20 hours. And I bet, more than that. It felt like waiting constantly for something to happen. Also, meeting Sphene that late into the story was bad. She should have been there since level 92, way earlier. Also, Sphene being a multiverse menace felt like Meteon 2.0 out of nowhere. Like copying the homework in the last moment. I thought it was gonna be about maybe some kind of different warlord's and beating them, just for world building, but having Sphene in the last 3 levels, and the WoL saving the multiverse again? The story was rushed too much at the end.
Using ShB and the First as a comparison to Dawntrail is a bit disingenuous. One is a multicultural nation that didn't really have any major issues for the past 80 years or so and the other is literally a world on the brink of destruction with a major calamity underway. The two are in very different starting points. That isn't to say that Dawntrail shouldn't have an interesting hook.
I personally would've been fine if the issues of Tural were that, on the surface it looks harmonious, but in reality the situation is rather tenuous at best. Grudges from past wars exists, actual racism was a thing, and Gulool Ja Ja used the Rite of Succession as a means to not only judge the candidates if they were ready to rule, but as a unifying event for the nation. Gulool Ja Ja would see how well each candidate would attempt to see how they would try and alleviate the situation between the various races and peoples.
@@Deode-d4h Too wrong didn't read.
@@OilFreeFeathers Man, you gotta try harder to bait than that. Even children have more bite than that comment.
@@Deode-d4h Bingo! One is interesting the other is a snoozefest.
@@Deode-d4h ............ THAT LITERALLY MAKES IT EVEN WORSE!!! because they were able to explain ALL of that about "a world on the brink of destruction with a major calamity underway" in like TWO LEVELS vs 8 levels the ENTIRE EXPANSION for "a multicultural nation THAT DIDNT REALLY HAVE ANY MAJOR ISSUES FOR THE PAST 80 YEARS OR SO".... do you even understand how much what you just said backs up what you're trying to refute?? lol that's why neither other person took you serious. -.-
I am still willing to believe it is YoshiP trying to give some acknowledgement to the story's issue without pointing fingers and blame anyone in the team directly, writer especially.
However, I also believe action speak louder than word, lets see how the post MSQ is going, will it be the same post-EW to Dawntrail template with us playing with flavor of the year NPC and put sole focus on them, or maybe they will try something else? Currently, I think they will double down, triple down if you counts post-EW even, I hope to be proven wrong.
what crushed the zero character was her backstory and resolution. she was so much better as a reluctant leader of misfits and losers in a darwinian world. post game could have been about building her kingdom but instead they just cut the strings on the 13th story as quickly as they could.
@@ZechsMerquise73I mean they could always go back, they did with crystal tower and the warrior of darkness.
@@jiggerblayne probably, but it will be very different with zero and the big bad working together to make the world a better place.
I agree with your take I want to get the whole package of the expansion not just msq but the patch notes as well and see what they have in store before I give the final verdict on dawntrail
I hope that in the post-DT MSQ they did something similar to what they did in post-EW: Introduce a whole new character. I just hope they leave WL out of the rest of the storyline altogether. I've never skipped so many cutscenes so quickly.
No. Wuk lamat did not need to be a confident character, she needed to become a confident character. She needed character development.
Wuk lamat isnt a scapegoat, but shes also not the cause of all of dawntrails problems, she's the embodiment of them because she is right in your face all the time.
Corporate-speak is one thing, of course, but if I remember correctly, they said earlier that such focus on one character (Wuk Lamat) was a deliberate choice in their attempt to bring something new to msq (can be wrong at this particular point)...and if from all the feedback they somehow concluded "we should have made Wuk Lamat more capable and confident from the start"...I have serious doubts about quality of story-telling in the future.
ARR story-wise was better then Dawntrail. I don't know how they managed to stumble so hard. But it's alright to fail or miss the mark at times. What is not alright it's to pretend "everything is going according to plan and we expected mixed reactions", as if they not supposed to work for "good" reactions from the start✨👀
Yeah. Yoshi P himself said he was worried about how they handled Wuk.
yeah... I'm not feeling good about 8.0 at this point.... major red flag from this response imo
The problem to me was that she was *too* confident. She wasn't vulnerable at all. We never get moments like with Ryne where she's doubt herself and other characters or even us step in to help her. She only ever seems to be down for a second and then rebounds as if it were nothing. She talks about how she thinks she cant messure up but that never leads anywhere substantial. And beyond that of course she takes up way too much of the MSQ.
@@omnilisk279 Funny enough, I would disagree here on the part of her being too confident. The correct way to handle her would be to go along the lines of Alphinaud from ARR/Heavensward and Lyse from Stormblood. They three share clear idealism and naivety in their worldview and actions. And both Alphi and Lyse were punished for it pretty hard. The world and the people in it challenged their views.
Wuk Lamat, on the other hand, never got the same challenge. No one actually tried to test her conviction. Not we, as her supposed "mentor" (unfortunately, we acted more like a nameless trust party member, rather then the hero and saviour of Universe), not her family members (dynamics between them were never really explored), nor the world at large.
So, in the words of Emet: "...I remain unconvinced of your worthiness". This is why her appearance in final trial got people to roll their eyes or laugh. Because during all this adventure, nothing meaningful stood on her way. Her "victories" were hollow. Her words felt empty. So you don't feel like she deserved anything. Nor throne, nor power.
@xronoamber9660 Precisely. She was all bravado from start to finish and her extremely momentary 'doubts' were brushed off either in the same scene or the next. I 'trusted' so long that the writing surely couldn't be that bad that when the end of the 3rd zone came I was SURE that Wuk was going to find a place she couldn't just "peace and happiness" her way to victory, that she was going to get knocked off her pedestal and have a serious problem she would struggle to overcome and learn some humility.....nope, she resolved it in one quest. My hope for the story shriveled up and died right then and there.
Yoshi P while the house is on fire:
We've received feedback of temperatures being too high in the building. We will take this as a learning opportunity and are confident that placing more fans in the building will ease people's frustration going forward.
Please look forward to it
You are so dramatic.
@@negeo1234ratio’d
@@IDC-P5GHD4Z8J7Your reply has less likes than the person you're replying to, so nice try.
@@MellowMink not referring to me, genius.
@IDC-P5GHD4Z8J7 I would suggest not using numbers on a screen as an indicator of who you agree or disagree with.
Oof...
I feel like in this interview YoshiP misses the mark almost as badly as the MSQ did...
The issue isn't that this wasn't a triple axel grand finale with fireworks and a cherry on top. Neither were Shadowbringers and Heavensward, and those turned out to be phenomenal stories. The issue also wasn't that "the pacing was bad". That's a gross oversimplification, and I think Zepla here is right on the money that the stakes were too muddy.
- For a people who's crops won't grow the Vanu Vanu sure were fat and not starving a whole lot, and we fixed that in an afternoon by reminding *them* of a ritual that's *their* tradition which *they practiced* not half a generation ago...
- For a splinter faction that was set on killing Wuk the red giants sure didn't actually provide much opposition. "We" fixed that in literal minutes by blocking a bird's fart and a teletubbies-level speech about friendship.
- For a contestant to the throne who abducted and threatened to kill a princess, and damn near succeeded in an act of genocide by releasing an ancient diety-like monster, we sure overlooked a lot of shit Bakool Ja Ja did. "Oh well, let's all go and make tacos..."
- For a tribal leader who actively committed infanticide on a monumental scale by practicing eugenics, we sure were quick to forgive and forget. And again, we fixed their problems in an afternoon... "Bad tribal leader! Don't do it again! Here's some seeds, now be a good tribal leader, or else!"
- For being a dishonorable, underhanded cheat during an honor duel, we sure didn't step in a whole lot when Zoraal Ja revived and killed Gulool Ja Ja, cause "That's just their culture and we have to respect that, apparently. We did all we could, but even absolutely nothing wasn't enough to save him."
-They came from this new purple dome thing and killed dozens of our people, harvesting their souls so they can't even return to the Aetherial Sea, let's all come together to build a bomb train while enjoying some light-hearted disney "gospel".
- "We blew our way in, time to find out what the hell they've done to the souls of our loved ones... OOhh~ scratch that, let's tour the farms!!!" There's a whole-ass city here too?! Please tell me there's a tour!! (There is a tour).
- We learned that this creepy girl queen in an idol dress is actually an AI that wants to harvest all the souls on our world to sustain her clearly unsustainable theme park purgatory dimension where all her dead subjects go on gondola rides and not watch a broken fountain for all eternity. Let's have Wuk Lamat *keeeep trying* to convince her of the error of her AI ways while we enjoy the rides, eat fake ice cream and go on another tour.
- BTW who even are those 2 losers that keep following us around moping about their (grand)parents all the time? Let's ride some capybaras FOR ANOTHER TOUR around the flowers before we shut this whole operation down.
- "Smile" plays, end credits...
The issues I listed are just the big story beats but the list goes on and on where the story feels like a cold engine trying to start. Every time you think that the ignition catches and you can finally get going doing something meaningful, the writers chuck some more liquid nitrogen over the radiator. So yeah, Yoshi, "the pacing was kinda bad".
All of the first half of the story as is plays on the giant non-issue of Tuliyollal's succession competition. Here, the stakes aren't even muddy, they're simply not there at all. We've known since post-msq EW that Wuk Lamat would be the new Dawnservant. Wouldn't it have been a MUCH more interesting story if there wasn't a competition at all? Gulool Ja Ja made his mind up already, she's going to be it. His own son is much too aggressive, his adopted son much too reserved and stuck in his books, she's the only one with the heart to make for a great leader, but she's been living a sheltered life in the palace, thinking all is already well in her future domain and naively believing that she can continue the happy kingdom her father created decades ago. Gulool Ja Ja knows otherwise and sees that he no longer has the means to protect his people from the coming troubles as his wiser half passed away ages ago and he himself is getting old as well. He also sees that none of his kids are ready to take over the baton, so he hires *some* of the scions (Yshtola and Graha aren't there, but "diet scions" Krile and Erenville are) to help Wuk on her way, having learned of their exploits in and around Eorzea over the last years, they would make for great mentors for the new prospect ruler.
During our travels through this new continent, Wuk and the scions learn of the troubles the people are facing. The Vanu Vanu are facing starvation, the giants are teetering on rebellion as splinter factions grow in influence, and the lizard people have already openly rebelled and have restarted their ancient feud with the cat people over the fertile lands in their corner of the country. Meanwhile Zoraal Ja, angry at being overlooked as a claimant of the throne, has been spotted in both places fanning the flames in order to create this war he's so hellbent on having. Along the way he is the one who convinces the splinter factions of giants to release Valigarmanda (can still be a trial). We foil his plans, Wuk learns that she's been terribly naive and is saddened that her people are struggling. She comes close to giving up along the way, but Alphinaud pulls her through. He's been through this before, many times over now, and with his brilliant mind and our (the PC's and other scion's) unmatched might we slowly wrest control of the country back, and along the way learn more and more about these cities of gold. Hot on Zoraal Ja's heels, we enter the Skydeep Cenote (can still be a dungeon), where at the end we face and humble his strongest lieutentant, Bakool Ja Ja (can be a trial) only to stumble on the last hurdle as we watch him enter the portal, vowing to return at the head of an army as the way seals behind him.
All seems well for a while as Wuk assumes the throne (Smile doesn't play) with her brother and father as advisors. She's learned a lot from her ordeals, but knows she doesn't have all the answers, and probably never will. She trusts her closest advisors (her brother and father) to correct her when needed. More and more earthquakes are happening in Shaloani though, and none of the hypotheses as to why seem to be correct... We investigate all possible leads along with Erenville, who has been putting off visiting his mother on the other side of a mountain range in the distance, when suddenly a big one hits, and a giant purple dome appears, right where Erenville's ancestral home is... Ships fly out, straight for Tuliyollal. We hurry back using the Aetherite. Wuk Lamat and the Scions do all they can to protect the people in the streets but they are getting overwhelmed (can be a dungeon?). Then, just as suddenly as the attackers came, they return to their ships, which stay in place, ominously looming over the city. Koana comes stumbling down from the palace, clutching a wound in his side. "It's father..." is all he can manage to say before collapsing. When we enter the throne room we see Zoraal Ja, blades red with blood, as are his eyes, standing over the corpse of Gulool Ja Ja. He turns to Wuk and the Scions. "You know where to find me, Lama'tyi." With a sneer, he seems to blip out of existence.
Distraught over her father's death, Wuk Lamat needs some time to get herself and her plans together. Initial surveys suggest that one does not simply walk into that giant purple dome. Plans are made. Koana, Alphinaud and Estinien stay behind to coordinate a defence of the city and forge alliances while Koana's wounds heal. A bomb train it is (Smile doesn't play). Blasting our way in after an action packed ride (can be a dungeon), we tentatively set up a base camp in this familiar but strange lightning infused land. We are quickly greeted by a young woman, in royal attire. She claims to be Sphene, the reluctant queen and wife-by-necessity of the new king, Zoraal Ja. She offers us her help in overthrowing him, none of this is what she wanted, she just wants her people to be happy and live in peace. Despite what she's learned along the way of becoming Dawnservant, Wuk gets played like a fiddle, these are also her dreams after all, and her father's death still clouds her judgment. We quest our way through the zone, supporting the resistance movement as Sphene gently nudges us along. Learning about how her people use regulators to live unnaturally long lives. Sphene convinces us that the devices simply draw in energy from the aether-infused lightning that wracks her world, but small hints are dropped that she may not be telling us the whole truth. When we confront and kill Zoraal Ja (Final Trial, after the dungeon about us climbing the tower), it becomes clear that Sphene has been the brains behind the whole operation. Yes, she wants what's best for her people, but what's best for them is to live off the souls of ours. This bubble and district 9 city are merely a testcase for her plans to fully merge her own reflection with our world, with the intent of harvesting all our souls to sustain her people. All pretense goes out the window, as Wuk Lamat realizes she's been played for a fool, and curses her gullible nature. Clenching her fist for the first and only time, she vows to stop Sphene.
(End of expansion, Smile doesn't play during end credits)
After credit scene: Yshtola strides confidently into the portal chamber in Skydeep Cenote, with Graha at her side. Wuk Lamat can be seen wrapping up a heated conversation with Koana as Krile wistfully paces around the sealed portal, absent-mindedly fidgeting with her earring. Yshtola and Graha bow to Wuk, and she gives them a curt nod in return. "Esteemed Dawnservants, I heard you were in need of experts on inter-dimensional travel?"
This.
@@maxmagnus377 Hot damn. It's almost like we didn't need to play a Captain Planet episode airing at 7am on Saturday morning after all.
@@maxmagnus377 Square should hire you. You single handily offered a much better story line.
@@katherinemerkel3505 I hardly expected anyone to read it tbh xD But thanks! Glad you liked it!
He did warned us that it was not going to be as good. We just did not expected it to be THIS bad. The writing team and character development team definitely dropped the ball on this one.
fix your tenses
I mean, I 100% expected "not as exciting" or "not an intriguing"....I did NOT expect "written like an amateur fanfic for tweens".
Remember when Yoshi delayed EW for 2 weeks caues he didnt like 1 dialogue in the end of the game, where did that director disappeared?
bruh... the delayed because of the pandemic... Endwalker was developed during that time and they couldn't possibly made it on time even though the game was already delayed like 5 months.
@@MrKnaives they themselves said they delayed it because of that one specific cutscene...
@@stef-w5j hey, dont bring up facts now
@@stef-w5j Companies never lie!
@@lunaticmode638 oh jezz
yoshiP and crew probally had an orgy and needed 2 extra weeks before launch.
ffs do you even think before saying such bs.
companies have credibility
sure they might have lied but there would be little to no reason to.
this is not activision blizzard fking up content for their games again and try to lie their way out.
If they treated the MSQ like the game that it is, instead of a visual novel, the reception would've been MUCH better.
I'm sure once this settles in I'll have more to consider... but what I'm feeling now, I'm not very confident in the future. Between the story and servers, maybe I'll take a break.
I get Yoshi-P’s point though. It doesn’t mean that it’s an excuse for a bad script/prioritization of its cast in DT, but ending off from a big climax means that a new story will have to find its footing on its own.
This time unfortunately means that they missed the mark & will do better with future writing as they have proven time and again that they can!
i see dawntrail as a filler episode, so i don't mind.
i hope the next expansions will be a part of a whole new arc though.
like Meracydia or some shit.
Meanwhile SWTOR, ESO, GW2, WoW don't have this problem. FFXI didn't have this problem either. If they built the framework to lead into the next expansion it would have had something to build on. But the issue XIV has is great World-Building that is persistent throughout the game. XIV tends to fire and forget about things at the drop of a hat once they use up their artistic setpiece.
Even other games in Square's portfolio in RPGs had something to build on with direct sequels with FF4 and The After Years or Bravely Default and Bravely Second. As well as games spanning big jumps in time like FF Tactics and FF12 and Revenant Wings. Even FFX and FFX-2 had interesting things to keep the story and the lore of Spira going.
So the story being Disney adventures with Wuk Lamat after fighting Hatsune Miku in Space and fighting Zeromus I think very much is an excuse and they really had no real foundation for what players got. I think the Alexandria portions of DT had promise but Wuk Lamat just sabotages everything for player immersion throughout the whole experience up to the final boss fight.
@MagiusNecros OK George RR Martin, let's see you make 5 follow up story arcs to your original story and tell me how you do. 😂 I'll wait.
@@MagiusNecrosErr XI def had its ups and downs bro
The next expansion is going to fail just like this one if they keep on with this current course. Frankly, given SE's business decisions as of late.. I don't see them fixing it. The team needs to be cleaned up, the fanfiction writers need to leave and they need to bring someone onboard who can actually write with ZERO self inserts and agendas.
He's deflecting. I feel YoshiP's creative process has been tampered with and he's trying to be very diplomatic and careful not to expose this.
He also had ff16 come out during this too, so maybe his time is just too split with other projects?
It's probably the localizers they hired for DT. And he can't say it.
@@sorarockss93doubt it since JP fans had complaints too
@@makisbizarreadventure4669 They hired localizers to shape the characters, not just translate.
@@sorarockss93 the over all story is the problem. Blaming all this on localizers is crazy
Heavensward- journey to a new land and meet new cultures, races and characters.
Stormblood- journey to a new land and meet new cultures, races and characters.
Shadowbringers- journey to a new land and meet new cultures, races and characters.
Endwalker- journey to a new land and meet new cultures, races and characters.
The difference is they are all within the same story arch. Dawntrail isn't
To be fair: Stormblood sucked ass just as much as Dawntrail. The main differences are imo Lyse not being quite as much of a pain as Wuk Lamat and Zoraal Ja not being as much of a pain as Zenos.
Micheal Jordan - A human with two arms and legs.
Micheal Cera - A human with two arms and legs.
Jessica Alba - A human with two arms and legs.
Oprah Winfrey - A human with two arms and legs.
@@shadowthehedgehog181Heavensward was it’s own story basically.
@makisbizarreadventure4669 But the only reason you reach Ishgard was from being a fugitive from Ul'dah. Not to mention losing your friends and Hydaelyn's connection
For me, the most insufferable thing has been the toxic positive fans who insist Dawntrail is the Mona Lisa and if you dislike it you're a this or a that.
YoshiP has said he was throwing **** at the wall to see what worked, and now this statement. Clearly, SE expected DT to be imperfect. And yet, that subset of XIV's community is so irritatingly INSISTENT that nothing was wrong.
I have seen more people complain about toxic positivity than I have seen people being positive. Not even toxically positive. It feels like since like 6.1, hating FF14 has just been the in-vogue thing to do. To the point that people are saying they should put the game in maintenance mode and make a new MMO because DT's MSQ was divisive.
I didn't particularly hate dt, but I have pointed out how I really dislike wuk lamat and the pacing issues. There were good parts of the story that I really enjoyed, mainly the ff9 references, which, if you've played ff9, you know what I mean. But all things aside, the story is a solid 4/10, maybe even a 6/10 if story elements can reaonate with you. It's not the worst thing I've ever played, but it's nowhere close to the best.
@@spetsu1 I'm pretty close to where you're at. For me, the MSQ was about a 3/10, and DT a 7/10. I have told my friends to keep enjoying the game, and I'm hopeful for the XI AR, and the new Field Expedition too!
For me personally, especially after watching that 3 part documentary about 1.0, and knowing SE got a new CEO and CBU3 had to handle 16 too...A lot of things are showing me XIV isn't getting as much investment, at least for this.
I struggle with YoshiPs evasiveness a lot, and I think he's absolutely avoiding the elephant in the room, perhaps wanting to spare his writers shame and take ownership as the face, which I would say is admirable.
Like many say, critiquing something you love fairly is a great thing, and should be encouraged!
Someone pointed out to me that the whole "Scions opposing each other" was very hyped up for naught too. lol Cheers
@@proy3 I can't say I've seen the same things as you. But as someone who did ARR 9 times, watching most of the cutscenes every time. I'm certainly not an impatient Ascian junkie or what not. I'm probably the best equipped to appreciate a slower storytelling, like Alphinaud's Crystal Braves. But Dawntrail missed the mark incredibly.
I will say, for me personally, Ultima Thule being "another tour zone" ala Amaurot, was a red flag, but 6.0 was incredible so it was easily forgiven. How close the 6.1-6.5 stuck to FFIV, was a red flag. (See the Bozja/FFXII stuff or Werlyt for effective utilization of the IP).
By the time I got to Living memory, the third "tour zone", I was really struggling. The divisiveness of DT can't really be argued, IMO, but everyone will have their own pros/cons list to be sure.
I love FFXIV, but I need SE to love FFXIV as well. Deciding to "throw stuff at the wall" as YoshiP said, feels like another red flag. Most businesses, even creative ones, are very careful about their flagship
So for now, I've unsubscribed. But I am hopeful XIV bounces back and makes us love Eorzea and the Source again!
@@proy3 I've seen these "I don't like the toxic positivity" comments floating around for Dawntrail, I've also never seen it. The most positive thing I've seen is that "The story beats are fine, but the execution just sucked hard" and other comments with a similar sentiment. Even the singular "Dawntrail Defense Force" person I've seen just said the same thing, "The expansion had good ideas, just didn't execute them well."
Publicly the comments on the mixed reception give me the impression that they either don't understand the reception or aren't willing to say. I hope they are having some clear and realistic internal discussions.
The MSQ had a lot of cool components and good ideas but the connective tissue was the problem. I have no issue with the story taking a slower tempo or having less serious and critical situations. I didn't expect a scene like Quintus's "exit" in 6.0 or a threat with grand and world spanning implications. It didn't need the weight of 5.0 or 6.0. However it needed to be written with the awareness that the people playing DT have experienced everything that came before.
We have been in hundreds of situations that solidify a certain logic on what works in what situation and how those situations not only play out but effect future situations. The Dawntrail story was written like a young adult novel with some very concerning decisions made on the part of CBU3. A lot of the situations we encountered felt out of place and contrived. The player needs to encounter an obstacle so an obstacle appears rather than feeling logical and organic. The interactions and reactions of characters (both central and supporting cast) to communication and problem solving were uncharacteristically simplistic. Wuk Lamat and the Chirwagur (red armored bad guy giants) before the 93 dungeon are a great example of a repeated problem. All we need to solve centuries of animosity is a cure 2 and "get to know you" chat. It felt like it took place in a different universe with different rules than previous content.
The interactions had a believeability on the level with a Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew novel meant for 11 year olds and that will never work for a population that is (very largely) 30+ years old and have already dealt with far more realistic outcomes.
Completely agree, everything just got so much more predictable as well. You could see a lot of plot points coming from miles away.
"The concept was journeying to a new land- we would be going to a new continet were we'd we ll be seeing new cultures, new races and character...." the only thing that we saw was the mision log "Talk to Wuk Lamat" and Wuk Lamat talking about being friends with everybody, It didn't deliver the concept of exploration, and the new cultures was all about how Wuk Lamat learns about them (despite the fact she has living her entire life there) Yeah, Yoshi-p didn't answer the real f*cking question of how he allow this bad story develop like this
Do you really think he would touch on the deeper issues in a media interview? This is the narrative they are going with for DT's reception.
Which expansion did we NOT go to a new land and meet new people/cultures? Such a weird excuse as to why the story was slow and bad.
Agree with that. Total letdown
Yoshi P doesn't answer questions. He only confuses you further. Everything he says is either blanket statement or so vague it told you nothing.
He probably was too busy with 16 I’m not gonna lie
"players will just like it" is how we got so many bad WoW expansions. Makes me concerned for you FFXIV players
Nah they listen to the players and take it to heart. FFXIV has had some bangers for a long while now. Blizzard is well known for not giving a damn about the consumer and trying to screw them. D3/D4, OW2, WoW expansions.
As a former WoW player, I had some flashbacks of "you think you do, but you don't" 😔
That's the truth. Working in IT, we use the phrase, "users don't know what they want." Blizzard turned that into "players don't know what they want." Which to an extent is true since I've seen some stupid suggestions, but you can only use that excuse for so long before you get serious backlash.
If I constantly get complaints about a system, I'll change it, but let people know it may not be in their best interest. No one will say anything for months because they don't want to prove me right, then go and complain that the old system was so much better.
Tldr:
If someone complains enough, give them what they want, if it works, great. If not, you've proved your point that you know best.
@@polmao Cope harder.
@@spetsu1 I recognize this so much as another person who works in IT industry, hahaha
Wuk Lamat should have had as much spotlight as Gosetsu did in Stormblood, that is enough importance to warrant being a primary character but not so obtrusive he chokes all the attention away from other characters that definitely need it.
Right?! People who just got the game trying to tell a US that its the first time we’re focusing on a character for an expansion. Lyse, Hien, Estinien, Ysayle, graha’tia we have SO many characters that got spotlight without being OBNOXIOUS. 😂
I simply find this disappointing about Yoshi-P, which only proves that he needs to start consuming other types of stories besides shonen anime. You don't have to tell stories about apocalyptic calamities to tell good stories. Good stories have risks, they have losses, they have gains and they have evolution and ascension and we can give examples of this by looking at FFXIV's own lore from Endwalker backwards. Good stories are not predictable, they take viewers by surprise. Good characters are multifaceted, they have mistakes, flaws and variations, but they are unique. You could tell Tural's story by replacing plantations, alpacas and Master Chef with something the trailer suggested, hunting, exploring wild lands, getting involved with new kinds of dangers. What we got instead were poorly used new characters, disdained old characters, unnecessary redemption arcs, villains who are not very engaging, a childish protagonist and a linear, boring and tiresome gameplay divided into two arcs that are not convincing in their connection. Books like The Lies of Lock Lamora, The Child Thief and The Name of the Wind are proof that you can make epic stories without battling world-destroying gods. Anime such as Moshoku Tensei are also good examples of this. Movies? There's the Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves movie itself, which gives a great example of how to tell an exciting, fun adventure that flirts with greater danger without throwing it directly in the viewer's face or without wanting to sound extremely apocalyptic and prophetic. Dawntrail was badly written. Period.
He does get inspiration. He confirmed he got inspiration from Mad Max, Star Wars, and Elden Ring.
What an Excellent f*cking comment!! (Sorry for my Language)
@@iceman3317 i dont know. For me looks like Chat GPT wrote this expansion.
> Good stories are not predictable
The very best stories are predictable, *in hindsight* (or by rigorously analyzing the text). Basically every time a story gets a twist that was *entirely* unpredictable, e.g. they just made shit up on the spot, readers catch onto it. You basically want to emulate the experience of playing KOTOR for the first time. You follow the story, see the twist, get surprised and shaken to your core. And on the second playthrough you see dozens upon dozens of moments that tell you what is coming.
So you always want surprises that attentive readers can imagine "I could have known, *if only* ".
This amplifies the "collaborative writing" experience of the reader, when they get inspired by moments in the story to speculate about the future, and then see if their bets were correct or not.
Of course, this all takes the fact that the underlying narrative is compelling in the first place as a prerequisite.
@@GotekSC100% correct
I could have sworn there was an interview before 7.0 that Yoshi and / or someone in CB3 knew the story was going to be divisive, and they were ready to react to several possible scenarios.
I have a feeling that he was pushed into the changes we saw.
If something ain't broke, you just wouldn't attempt to fix it. Unless your stupid boss puts his foot down...
Maybe that's why he "isn't surprised" & yet he still walked face first into it.
This is why I can't fully blame Hiroi. The story we got probably isn't his original writing. The final product is probably from so much re-writes because of "cultural sensitivity" and shit.
This is when I'm gonna call out Yoshida. Because I think it was too obvious that DT would not land. I already didn't believe they didn't see this reaction coming, at best maybe it was a situation where by the time it was noticeable to them they felt they were too far into it to change course but even that is pushing it when they chose to leave in things like Wuk taking us across the city to say she just now realized she likes peace and smiles. I don't understand what happened, I don't want to believe it's a Pokemon situation where they just believe people will buy it anyway but it is wild that they left DT like that.
That was the moment I officially decided I wasn't a fan of Wuk Lamat. Oh, you just now had this grand epiphany that the thing you love the most is... seeing people smile? That's it? Is this Disney Channel?
It felt almost insulting that the writers thought that would land with players.
I mean they have two years when they were able to piece it together and see a whole picture. They can't just scrap and change it. voice are already recorded asset made. If they did try to change it would have been worse. It's better to take an L now and change improve it in the future.
@@MrKnaives They don't start the story after the last expansion, I can guarantee you they were working on DT in tandem with EW. There is only so much leeway they can be given. Because the problems in DT are so blatant and should have been obvious very early. Like how much dialogue was given to Wuk Lamat compared to everyone else. That should have been caught very early. There are a lot of issues that really are not understandable. Especially since they've been doing this long enough that some issues should already be figured out but they reappeared in DT. I just do not buy that they could not have caught most of the big issues early enough to fix them. And some were things that should not have been unrealistic to fix like the English voice acting sounding insane for a lot of key scenes, Erenville's mom or the last trial as examples, that should have been recorded again on the spot. Or Smile being pitchy even though it's the main theme. It's too much that should have been caught as they were doing it.
@@TheCopelandr Exactly, it felt almost patronizing, like it was written for toddlers. We just spent hours with her doing her nonstop peace and friendship thing only for them to somehow think of all the characters, she needed to have a 1 on 1 with us just to make us waste time running across town to tell us the same childish thing she's been shoving down our throats already. I cannot buy that no one caught that and knew how bad it was or that they couldn't change it to anyone else and written a meaningful interaction because it has to be written before they created the scene and recorded the lines.
@@mismismism well how much of real life events bleed into the writing, they even said that they wanted to change tones after endwalker and the real life wars going on to a more upbeat story, I wonder how much of this was just an overreaction to real life suffering and them trying to bring some positivity and failing miserably
I only wanted 2 things from Dawntrail story. #1 a Beach episode, I wanted to hit the sands, surf, and expected fan service with the Scions. I fully expected "Road to El'dorado" calls to adventure to interrupt the WoL MUCH NEEDED R&R (comic relief). Until finally a lead so promising (Some Krile related stuff) Which leads into #2 A fun adventure with G'raha and Krile. Where we do the thing, see the sights and find the City of Gold. I expected Pirates, Wild Mamool Ja, and some FFXI ToAU references.
Instead I got Wuk Lamat, and only Wuk Lamat.
Yoshi-P forgot to mention that they're firing all the writers of this MSQ.
I certainly hope so.
hopefully along with the same people that "reworked" the jobs
Hopefully they'll fire the VAs that gaslit the playerbase for not liking music or their own private-made-public practices.
New cultures, races and characters have been introduced in every expansion until now. Would be interesting to hear what he and team meant by "this concept" they had in mind, and why it had to be introduced especially cleanly and attentive this time. Especially considering they did a stellar job on so many occasions before.
I gotta have to agree with the battle content taking too long because I was nearly tweaking in the beginning. It took wayyyyy too long to unlock the first dungeon
The time gap of content between finding the gate, going through Shalooni, the attack and building the train bomb is like hours of no combat whatsoever it was crazy
Every expansion, was a journey to a new place, with new characters and new cultures to explore... dawntrail was not the first in the ff14 history to offer anything new in that regard. And that was always an argument I hated when people criticized that aspect. "Oh you just hate it because you hate new cultures." Because I hated radz at Han before that? Or an entirely new planet before that? Or the Asian themed content before that?
Like, I don't think you could've gotten much different of a culture than an alien world with shadowbringers, and it isn't even the first time we dealt with tribal cultures such as Azim Steppes.
He'll we are even space faring now, I was even thinking we will have a chance to explore new planets such as an entire planet full of mandervilles, or a pupu world.
Either way, the people trying to deflect criticism of DT because they say people are just racist need to get lost.
Some V Tubers are defending Wuk Lamat's characters solely because they think everyone is going after the VA. "Transphobes can eat a dick" said one in a witch hat (not going to name the name here; she can die on that hill if she wishes but it's by her right her hill to stand on and I have to respect that freedom) and never once did I criticize the character because of the VA. The VA is a separate matter and the VA is a very unpleasant person in general, proclivities aside.
Honestly, the article itself is based, Yoshi-P‘s response made me more worried than anything else. I feel like he doesn’t understand the key issue which is the execution and the shallow, poor writing. Others have told me that he probably knows this but can’t throw his employees under the bus. And while this might be true, I still have doubts… His response felt out of touch which is worrisome.
I think he does understand the issues, but he isn't going to do anything about it. Seems like he is just going to double down on the direction the game is going
I'm a long time FFXIV fan. I didn't play Dawntrail. After the disappointment of the Post-EW MSQ, something told me to take a step back and let CBU3 cook on whatever their plans are for the next saga. I feel like I dodged a bullet with Dawntrail. I would love to return to FFXIV someday, but it looks like I'll be taking a long hiatus from the game until I hear they've turned things around. Yes I heard the actual gameplay content is good, but for me, the story was what drew me into FFXIV the most.
I wish I did the same, if I could pretend DT was a silly mod and not canon that would be great.
I got into FF14 because of the story. I was willing to pay just for the story. I didn't like Endwalker's story but i still enjoyed it because of the characters(Zero not so much). Yawnfail genuinely made me regret buying the digital deluxe.
I really don’t want to say this, but I’m extremely disappointed with Yoshi P. First time I’ve quit FF14 since I started 8 years ago.
To anyone thinking they should "bring back" Ishikawa or whatever, she is actively involved in the writing process. Here she is describing her senior role during the fanfest in Vegas.
Ishikawa: And now, since we have reached the end of Endwalker, I would like to mention we are starting a new story. And it is actually my colleagues, the new generation of writers that will be writing this story in Tural.
Yoshi-P: Uhm yes, and of course as producer/director, I do look at the content and make sure and check, but I think Nacchan has a more direct role in kind of supervising how the writing is done, so Nacchan, can you give us your thoughts on the progress so far?
Ishikawa: It really does feel like a brand new adventure to me. There are certainly a lot of trials and tribulations but it is exciting. It's sort of like I've given them a map and been like "Go!" and then they're running around like "Oh hey, oh hey!". And of course, I will absolutely lend them a hand and reach out to give them help where I can. And through the process of doing that, with that exchange between us, we do eventually arrive at a point where everyone's like "Oh, I know what to do!" and they run straight for the endline. It's really great that we have this experience together, and I do think it bodes well for the next 10 years of FFXIV.
Timestamp: 6:34:22, Fan Festival 2023 in Las Vegas - Day 1
Dawntrail isnt bad because Endwalker was good.
Expecting failure doesnt justify failure.
This isnt at all the result of the climax of endwalker.
Dawntrail could have been very good.
He's really wrong about Wuk Lamat. There was just way too much of her.
I wonder what was happening in production that they allowed the story to come out the way it did. The writing and dialogue was terrible. Was it working on other things that muddled the process until it was too late? I don't get it. I wasn't expecting it to top ShB and EW, but this was bad.
re-writes for cultural sensitivity points.
If they didn't portray Wuk Lamat at all, it would be better
If they had just left her at Tulliyolal after the ceremony at the half way mark and had us go to Shaaloni and heritage found with Koana. It would've probably been a way better story. But sticking us with Wuk Lamat for the ENTIRE FUCKING EXPANSION had me needing a restraining order and therapy afterwards.
I never want to see her ever again...
Having just finished the MSQ... it was some of the worst told and worst designed questing i have ever experienced. I LOATHED continuing the story, i loathed doing the next quest steps... it was always the same. Endless running back and forth, endless talk to 3 NPC's and listen to exposition, now click on these thing and listen to exposition...
I'm a story STAN but the story wore on me so much that i caved... my skip cutscene button has never been used so much...
Just god awful.
Post-EW flopped hard on writing, and once the narrative spell is broken, you start to see all the cracks in the foundation even if you're not looking for them.
This spell isn't broken by choice, and it really is time they say goodbye to the awful ShB paradigm and make the game fun to play again.
He really needs to elaborate on this, because I can't really draw anything from this article. It honestly just sounds like a dodge to me, like well some people will like it and some won't. There's nothing about Wuk Lamat other than calling her a scapegoat, which is another dodge, she's shoved in your face nonstop, it got ridiculous. I have never felt more drained playing through an msq, like I just wanted to take a nap, because I was bored and the speak to 3 people and then speak to Wuk Lamat beat me down. Dawntrail was just a really bad visual novel for the most part and I am not afraid to say so. Also, the scions had nothing to do, they didn't even act like themselves. Everything was done to elevate Wuk Lamat.
Fire Hiroi and Kate, otherwise we are going to get more of the same going forward.
Or even just demote them. Just for the love of God do not give them a pen. 😂
@IDC-P5GHD4Z8J7 no 1000000% fire them and blackball kate from the entire industry
I have a theory... what if someone higher up than Yoshi-p demanded that ffxiv be more oriented toward younger audiences? He can't just throw his superior under the bus, but if he does make them happy, he's got to deal with the backlash.
FFXIV will never attract younger generations with how many cringe ERP discord groomers are running around in the game.
If that was true then it would be a higher up they would need to get rid of lmao
Younger audiences have no interest in sitting through the hundreds of hours of cutscenes and dialogue this game requires new players to go through to reach endgame, not to mention how long it takes for jobs to get enough skills to not feel super slow and boring, and to top it all off there's the monthly sub issue which is just an archaic unappealing system
I'm pretty happy Yoshi-p acknowledged that there are shortcomings to the Dawntrail story. I don't think he got all of them, or even the biggest ones, but I'd rather that than a Director who doesn't care enough to state the flaws in their work.
I feel like Yoshida has become the thing he spoke out against back when he revived XIV. He now thinks it's all going to work out because Final Fantasy is on the cover.
The cycle of life. The underdogs become the champions and then forget where they came from. Dismissing and disrespecting everyone and everything that made them what they are.
I don't think he does. I think the reins were yanked from his hands but he still has to stand in front of the camera, smile, and say the nicest thing possible.
@@rclaws3230 I think so too, and I hope this is all a "I told you so" moment to whoever in the corporate chain made the decisions that led here.
Alright. Dawntrail needs a reboot. We need Bahamut to do his job again and rain down hell.
If Bahamut/Tiamat destroys Tural in patch content turning it all into a husk like Living Memory, this would be the best expansion ever. I can only hope Wuk Lamat gets the Minfilia treatment.
That would actually be so epic
Only if Smile plays while Tural is getting destroyed.
This is 100 percent a damage control interview. But I feel YoshiP is falling on the spear for a bunch of bad employees.
ESG scores got to them
this is the company that released forespoken
If YoshiP is really that tone deaf to what's wrong with DT, and that interview isn't just empty PR babble, this game is done. DT sucking has nothing to do with the stakes and little to do with the pace. It's literally bad writing and a Black Hole Sue character that ruined it. First half to 2/3 could have been an Indiana Jones type adventure looking for the golden City (no huge stakes). Then the last 1/3 could have been after we find it and the hijinks that ensue. It could have even been us unsealing the gate and opening Pandora's box. That could make for an interesting story arc, us having to fix a problem we created and dealing with a little bit of resentment directed at us.
Story being divisive is not the only reason for mixed rating. Him saying that he expected it means he released this expack without having faith in his work. It's a self diss if anything.
Hopefully this will shut up the Dawntrail/Wuk Lamat apologists. Even Yoshi P knew it was bad.
And I pray he takes the feedback to heart and does away with all. Give us more Krile and Erenville. Make our character the main character again. Cause I swear to god if i ever need to Speak to Wuk Lamat again. I'm going to quit.
He literally said he expected "mixed" reception, which is a completely different thing to say than expecting everyone to dislike the story, the latter not being the case. People should carefully reread his responses.
Dude shouldn't never have approved DT with the story in that state...The big issue is not about "people maybe not liked this new aproch" it is,actually, a case of "this story is crap! the writing,pacing and progression of the story drive people to sleep! The new central character have nagative charisma and everything beyond the combat sucks!"...
One good thing the Dawntrail MSQ did for me was make me pay attention to several other games: Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate 3, World of Warcraft. I even started playing Ragnarok Online again.
oh sht, where do you play Ragnarok? Official or Private? Do you know any good private servers? ever since NovaRO's shut down, I stopped playing.
@@orimu836 I'm playing on an official server precisely because of the low risk of the server being shut down
*Prontera theme starts playing*
i'm REALLY REALLY debating going back to wow... i swore up and down i'd never touch it again after the artifact BS and then everything blizzard did and the investigation and OW2 and D4 and diablo immortal but.... i've been hearing nothing but good stuff for like a year now =\ played from launch til legion and even raided with the #3 guild in the US for awhile and im ngl i kinda miss it lol, FF14 has gotten beyond trash and unacceptable, i am seriously debating unsubbing and losing house after 32,000 hours and over 500 days /playtime, yoshi.p also needs to shut his damn mouth.... no we DO understand wuk lamat 10000% and WE HATE HER WITH A PASSION. DO NOT EVER PUT HER IN THE GAME AGAIN! "LOOKS LIKE WE'RE HAVING FUN HEREEEEEE!!!!!" IN THE MIDDLE OF THE KRILE SCENE!?!?!?!? "LOOKS LIKE WE'RE HAVING FUN HEREEEE!!!!" AGAIN DURING ELENSHPE'S SCENE WITH HIS MOTHER?!!?!!?!?!?? BRO!!!!!! spheneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
I do feel conflicted - I understand that the design choice was made to make sure the WoL wasn't the main character in the story, given that us and the Scions were basically proven heroes, and their development arcs were essentially completed (all save for maybe G'raha and Krile, perhaps). I just feel like the story of Wuk Lamat didn't have enough strife - it felt like most of the tribes just instantly folded to the will of Wuk Lamat, as opposed to still putting up resistance for a while before coming around to her. I do feel they could have told a better story in the details, but there were just some glaring oversights in continuity, as this is coming from someone that overall didn't mind the MSQ story.
Absolutely. The entire MSQ felt like it was extremely conflict avoidant, unless the plot absolutely demanded it. Cooking contest? Just pair the good guys together. Valigarmanda? Causes no destruction and is resolved within an hour. Shaoolani natives? Their concerns are addressed in moments and they say "yeah okay." Lizardman eugenics? Also solved in minutes by just saying we'll import seeds for you, so there's no reason to be mad any more. Just say you'll all be friends now and war will be solved. It's all so shallow and unrealistic and insulting and dull.
2:34 That's not dodging a question, that's adding context to a point. That absolutely has to do with a new story, it's called a comparison. People are going to inevitably compare what they previously experienced to what they're currently experiencing, especially when it's the same game, also considering we just left that story.
Endwalker was the end of the buildup since the start of the game basically, and with this being like the beach episode arc, there's absolutely people who aren't going to find it stimulating, it essentially feels like filler. But also there's never going to be a story that appeals to absolutely everyone, that's just not going to happen. Either way, it's not super shocking to think a new story's gonna have mixed reviews after a big...ender, like Endwalker. Though.. I think this would've had the same kind of reception anyways, it was a very mediocre story.
In regards to Wuk Lamat, she had growth, as would be important for a new character, but there were definitely issues and inconsistencies with how the character was even portrayed. I have a hard time believing that she knew almost nothing about the neighboring villages, but had no issues hopping on a boat to a completely foreign land, where we also didn't see even the slightest bit of seasickness. Honestly she felt more like that kinda character that has main character syndrome and really didn't feel like she deserved much of anything. For the egregious amount of screentime this character has, there is no logical reason to be seen for her growth as a fighter, that solo instance where you're forced to play as her just felt like cheat codes were being input in the background and abra cadabra, suddenly stronk.
Also kayfabe is basically just what it's called for being and remaining in character as far as wrestling goes, like WWE
They need to remember this is a videogame and we should be playing. Like imagine if for rising event they had us shooting the cannon to launch fireworks at markers to make designs or something like how you shoot the namazu targets or sleep darting people in stormblood. They have lost all creativity.
I know ppl wanted him to trash writing, dialogue, and so on. But wat kind of leader would he be if he just got on a random interview and roasted his staff like that. He did his best not to be too critical while admitting they did fuck up. As ppl pointed out this is the first time since 2.0 that hes ever admitted faults in the story. Only the patch cycles will tell if he actually listened to the feedback or not. Also. Damn the bg music was so LOUD i could barely hear her at points. LOL
100000% she needs to turn the damn music down it's soooo obnoxious in alot of her videos lately
When Yoshi-P says that EW was a huge climax and that led him to predict a mixed response to the next arc I don't think he meant he thought DT would be BAD, just that the RECEPTION to it would be mixed because it's a denoument arc coming off an incredible ten year crescendo. It's the beginning of a new arc that needs to build back up from a lower starting point and is inevitably going to be less exciting than EW. I don't necessarily AGREE with that sentiment, especially since he previously stated that he didn't view the relationship between EW and DT that way - he saw DT as just a continuation of the story.
Wuk is not a symbol of all the problems or some scape goat…she is a problem. I hope she’s gone after this expansion.
Yoshi-P! YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! You saved us once! Why have you forsaken us this time?!
But for real. Doesn’t he constantly say that 14 is his life’s work? Yet he just dropped the baby on the floor and it was Wuk Lamat syndrome now.
It blows my mind that so many people are still afraid to admit that wuk lamat was an absolutely awful character.. everyone dances around it because of who plays her. Stop this. Horrible character, horrible story, horrible dialogue, horrible voice acting
wdym you don't like having a man QUIETLY shout spheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeennnnnnnneeeeeeeeeee. :| in the middle of your boss fights!?!?!?!?!?
“Because your happiness is my happiness!”
I feel like, I'm starting to know you. The real you. *smile starts playing*
This only proves what I've been saying since the end of End Walker.
The Devs, Yoshi P included, aren't playing FFXIV, nor any other MMOS since that story ended.
They aren't seeing the real issues with Dawntrail.
My expectations for FFXIV future are low
I don't think Yoshi-P was saying, "I knew it was going to suck," more like, "We tried something new, and I'm not surprised that it didn't land with everyone, especially since we made some mistakes."
He at least acknowledged that corrections need to be made, instead of saying something stupid like, "players think they know what they want, but they don't." (If you know, you know.)
Dawntrail had the bones of a very good expansion. Fight me. It actually had some great aspects. The music is S-tier. The group content is amazing. Koana? I wish we had more time with him, because his VA nailed it. Bakool Ja Ja? Love him. I want that two-headed son of a bitch to be our first monster Scion. Gulool Ja Ja? Loved him. He was the closest thing Tural had to their own WoL.
I actually like that FFXIV doesn't have a new arc pre-planned. We learned that ARR-to-Endwalker wasn't pre-planned, it developed over time. Planning your ending ahead is a big risk, because it creates a landing you HAVE to stick.
Look at WoW's World Soul Saga. They came out and said this next 6 years is all a part of a story arc. If they stick the landing, it could be amazing, but if they don't -- if 6 years gets invested into an arc that has a lackluster ending -- it could be like Game of Thrones where everything built up to a flubbed ending. People were PISSED.
Calling your shot too soon makes it virtually impossible to pivot. That's what FFXIV did so well from ARR to EW. They pivoted from adventurer, to hero of the Dragonsong War, to revolutionary, to traveler to another world, to savior from an apocalypse.
Go watch Jesse Cox's reaction to the final zone. Dawntrail introduced some very interesting questions to the story -- the biggest one being, what was Azem doing while the Convocation and Venat/her followers were doing their thing? We know Azem didn't side with either faction, and now we know that this relic that can bridge worlds had his symbol on it.
FFXIV is at its best when it doesn't try to pre-plan everything ahead of time.
I love your take on the situation. I hard agree that the general story beats of Dawntrail are actually good, the issue was that the execution was poorly done and the characters were poorly utilized. Dawntrail had everything it needed to be a very good restart story and it unfortunately just didn't get there. I've been saying in other places that the script felt like a 5th draft and with a few more reviews it would have been fine, but the devs just stuck to the 5th draft for some odd reason.
I wouldn't expect Ishikawa to come back. She's likely onto bigger things.
I am already very surprised it took 2 months and half from the launch of DT, when we should already see the live letters about the post DT patches that this article was the only bit of information on SE perception of how DT was received.
Somehow the feeling is that Yoshi-P was too busy with too many things, including FF16, and in the past he relied more on Koji Fox, Natsuko Ishikawa and some others that now are in other roles for their judgements. Even seeing the seasonal events and their rewards not just the expansion no one seems to put any real effort in bringing something new or interesting.
I even thought that some of the staff changes were kind of imposed externally to CS3 so he just decided to let this new people burn with a big failure and regain control over his group?
As a player since 2013 with over 1000 days of Play time (more than 24000 hours) for the first time I started to see that for this game they have no idea where it has to go and feels like they are not even really trying to renew it as they pretend to.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. If they wanted to show Ishikawa gratitude they could’ve paid her more. Ishikawa is a writer, her new position doesn’t help the game we are all paying for monthly. A single player RPG with only a few hours of content is no excuse. Are we going to blame Covid still too?
This does make me a bit nervous about the future of ffxiv, but I do feel like they'll find their stride again soon. I'll stick around to see what happens.
He had his doubts? Maybe Yoshi P needs to talk to Wuk Lamat.
a lot of people who liked it all the way should understand that you can like or like parts of a story, and it's still objectively poorly written. please tell me in all honesty you were on the edge of your seat when krile solved a 200 year old feud by using meteor mana on bananas or whatever.
"Objectively."
@@MellowMink yes, yes it is OBJECTIVELY poorly written. good thing you quoted it for emphasis.
Yup, the concept that the producers, directors and editors just let this pass through unchallenged is mind-boggling. I get that a new team of junior writers might have trouble finding their feet but the seniors should have known better.
Lv90-95, DT felt more like the pilgrimage from FFX with the only entertainment being Wuk not knowing anything about the country she's lived her entire life in, and looking to rule over. Lv96-100 DT MSQ was like..... chill monster city next door to Juraasic Park meets the old wild west, then jumps an entire few millennia in the future, then "hey lets go turn off the fake afterlife!" So much of the MSQ made little sense.... still kind of like Solution 9 though, as out of place as it is in FFXIV.
I understand Yoshi-P's perspective here. From his end, it seems that the story had high expectations, meanwhile they had an idea in concept that didn't end up panning out because they had trouble pacing the game properly. It might have been an issue if different visions of the story along with development not coming together cohesively.
Dawntrail going to be the first time I encourage players to story skip
Same
There is too much reading in FF14. I love reading, but there needs to be more combat like WoW. Why can't we have more things to fight in MSQ? Like a single monster in the world that has 2-5 mechanics. Why is there so many mobs in the world we don't interact with? Why don't we have more unique and fun quests? Even if the story was mid, I'd still have fun pressing my buttons along the way.
small indie dev please understand 🥺
Didn't Yoshi-P say before Dawntrail came out the he felt that the games was going to cause mixed responses due to the path they were going with it
You know what would make the story exciting? Take one of the scions and turn them into the next major villain. It might upset some people, but it would still be good story writing imo.
No, if they did that (Especially after Dawntrails garbage quality) it would break the game.
They tried talking a risk with DT and it's blown up in their faces. The can't screw up again, period.
Hell, at this point I'm open to the idea of my WoL becoming a villain just to get people to fight for their peace instead of preaching for it without much effort.
The best example of small-scale but engaging stakes was Heavensward. There are no world threats. Not even multi-nation threats. Everything that was a stake was a single nation, Ishgard. And yet it is my favorite story in the whole game.
To be fair, the rite of succession was an interesting and compelling idea to me as well, with plenty of potential, until Wuk Lamat ran it into the ground like stepping on PEAS. And then they introduced a world threat with interdimensional fusion particularly nearing the expansion's final boss.
Am I being gaslit in real time? I vividly remember people being very vocally disdainful of Endwalker's story and now we're going full 180 on that because Dawntrail is the new thing to hate on?
You are 100% correct and people also pulled 180 on Stormblood as well.
Exactly. Writing quality hasn’t just declined since 5.3, it has declined at an increasing rate. No one wants to talk about that, because it implies that ShB may have been a fluke, and thus there is no white knight who can step up to save it from itself.
I promise you, her lack of confidence was the least of her issues. I liked her in the first quarter of the expansion. I disliked her far more when she found her voice. I never paid attention to who wrote the stories, but clearly whoever wrote DT did not do previous expansions. This is by far the most incongruent attitude and expansion I’ve seen from the team.
There was a lot of confusing choices for the way the msq went. Recasting wik lamat's English va and not writing it like a disney movie.
My favorite things of DT were the music and the solo duties. And there were a few story beats that I enjoyed very much. I feel like bakool jaja got better growth than wuk lamat even.
what solo duties lmao all 2 of them? compared to every other expansion
@zeening the two fighting gulool jaja, both the real him and his spirit, and fighting bakool jaja as wuk lamat were all really fun imo
Maybe less than other expansions but definitely funner than any of those
Yoshi did pretty much double down on Wuk Lamat. Also demonstrating he doesn't really understand story writing at all.
Estinien, Graha’tia, Ysayle, Hien, Lyse, Minfillia, Uriange, Nero, Cid…..dont mind me I’m just listing characters who were plot-focused without having to eat an ENTIRE expansion’s worth of dialogue just to develop fully. You could even throw Nanamo and Raubahn in there too. 😊
Even Alpha had more growth and a better plot than Wuk Lamat.
It really feels like they panicked halfway through production, that's the only thing that would justify making DT so inconsistent and rushed in many places.
I think him bringing up Endwalker was just to say that you were coming from this 'Epic' story to something of a restart. So I can see where he's coming from with that thought process since Dawntrail is very strange with where our character 'ends' up in End Walker.. so restarting a story is a very large hurdle since we are technically 'God Slayers' lol... so I can see where he expected mixed reception.
I disagree, no producer expects to release something someone all likes. Like yes a lot of people like heavensward, and shadowbringers but not everyone likes it. Some like stormblood and endwalker while other people don't like them and that's ok. He expected some to dislike it which is good , if he thought everyone would like it that'd be foolish, you have to test the waters and try new things otherwise things will get stagnant
Is it bad that I had to watch this on mute with closed captions because the WoW music in the background almost feels too hilariously appropriate for the article?
or the fact that for a good while it's literally 3-4x louder than she is and can almost not hear what she's saying o.O
The story was made weak combined with with an ABSURED amount of just…watching things happen via cutscenes. It’s always been my biggest gripe about MSQ. Do we need to fade to black, watch a slow camera pan down to the characters as a 5 minute cutscene reveals how we need to learn to trade some items for a hammer? I get that they are showing how Wuk Lamat is “learning” about her people, but some more hands-on approaches wouldn’t have killed us.
This isn’t surprising.
I can understand why he would expect this even if he felt good about it.
Coming off a 10 year long arc it’s expected that there would be those who expected the hype of Endwalker to run into a completely new story.
Knowing it would be a lighter story than Endwalker and the others before it, there would be disappointment from some with the new story.
I didn’t particularly care as much as I did ShB and EW, but I also didn’t expect DT to stand up to it.
My expectations for DT were set so I wasn’t let as disappointed as some others might have.
Here’s hoping the post msq patches make those left disappointed feel better about the expansion.
"so you knew that wasn't good, that nobody would like it". I understand that a lot of people don't, but I personally liked it, and a lot of people too. That's what mixed reviews mean, not that everyone hated it.
Ishikawa oversaw this story, she is not writing cause she is the overseer. There is a video by a dude whose name I can't remember, who said this story was a mine canary for a different type of storytelling. Now that every knows it doesn't work, they will most likely go back tot he way they use to do it before