Arc Gouging Basics (Part 2): Proper Torch Angle
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- Опубліковано 29 лип 2024
- Bob continues to teach arc gouging with this episode covering proper torch angle.
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Ahh yes, the gouge. My most favorite way to burn myself it is fun though like welding in reverse. Also ear plugs will not only protect you from the noise but you’ve never lived til you’ve had a dingle berry in your ear!
Bryan Saunders oh it just a wonderful experience if you know what I mean ...
I had earplugs in and a large blob shot up and fused into my earring, then the heat traveled along the ring into my earlobe causing a roaring sound, the fun part is you just have to wait till it cools down before you can do anything about it, still have the ring as a souvenir.
I caught a big one in the ear once. I don’t weld without ear plugs anymore either lol
Bryan Saunders my favorite is when you can hear it sizzling away at your flesh in your ear for just a fraction of a second. Reminds you that you’re alive.
Fraction of a second, more like several seconds especially when gouging into a cat bucket when removing lip liners and adapters with some nice fat 12x4mm flats
A weld eraser.
AAAAHHHH okay that makes sense
I've watched many of your videos. You are meticulous with you narration and actions. It would be a great pleasure to meet you.
I worked for CAT in Decatur, IL for 33 yrs. I had several assignments: over half of my service was instructing apprentices. I was happiest in that role. Keep bringing the videos.
Believe it or not, my first real job was running projectors at a movie theater. The projectors were carbon fired and had no bulbs, just two copper coated carbon rods that touched off and auto fed into one another long enough for a 20 minute reel. Then switched projectors.
Random Texan x
Yup and they were powered by a big Lincoln bullet welder (shield arc)
Very interesting topic. I look forward to hearing the different uses of carbon arc gouging. Nice video. Thanks for sharing.
Another good video Bob, one other thing you might mention is to make sure if your anywhere close by, like observing or maybe a helper, to cover all exposed skin as you can get a really bad sunburn. I’m speaking from experience in my early days, it only happened once and that’s all I needed, worst sunburn I’ve ever had. Looking forward to more great videos.
AHA! Thanks for that TIP! Never thought of that!
I have PTSD from the sound of that damn thing
I love that sound
Boy! My introduction to carbon arc gouging, about 1988/89. The boss walked in one morning with a package under his arm. Nearly ruined the rest of my week! How do you use it I asked, staring what I thought closely resembled a King Cobra. You will have to figure it out and disappeared. That day some of the next , I had a tiger by the tail hooked up short. After making every mistake I finally got it. Your comment about not getting your face it brought back some vivid memories!!
sound like good memories still !
I LOVE using a carbon arc. At my last job it was a lot of single bevel 100% welds so weld one side and back gouge out to clean metal. I got really good at it. We could always tell the guys that didn’t know what they were doing when they came to test because when backgouging a seam they would look in front of the carbon when cutting. You can’t see the seam this way and see if you are cutting to clean metal.
6:18 "I'll probably get burnt" lol classic line there.
Very interesting. I have only done this kind of gouging with a torch. I really enjoy this channel and I'm excited to learn more.
Just the beginning, it only gets better from here.
Thanks Bob! Another great video!!
Bob, these are like teasers. I can't wait until the next video.
Great way to fix crack, erase welds and take things apart that has been welded together. The first time I seen it done I thought it was a bad ass torch. We use 500 to 600 amp Miller’s and Lincoln’s with 3/8” arc rods. Veeing out 3” plates repairing cracks on rock crushers and anything that needs repairing. Duel hearing protection is needed as it topping out at over 120 plus decibels Keep up the great videos.
Thank you for the great video on air gouge operation.
Haven't seen one in decades, using one and being good at it is quite the art form. Don't forget the spats lol
Have a necessity to replace the shanks on one of my backhoe buckets. Thanks for the videos and getting me up to speed. Now the hard part of staying under the duty cycle of my 200amp
Machine.
We lanced the BOF truncheon ring 3 ft thick in 87' at Sparrows Point ,Bethlehem...we wore leather overcoats...lol...In August....lol...what fun we had!!!
I used a carbon arc gouger once back in the 80's. I think it was with the tubular rods. It really makes a mess, but you can make a nice deep groove fairly quickly.
Good video, I didn't catch if you mentioned it. Air always under the electrode. Does that machine have an arc force control? I always set the arc force for a stiff arc, similar to 6010 setting.
Nice demonstration! Can u crank the maschine to 400 amps and burn out a big weld, would like to see that! Keep it up!
I've been welding structure on tank and random stuff in the plant for 13 years and I think they should give a gouging test just like any other welding test to hire in companies. How can you call yourself an x-ray welder if you can't back gouge . That would be a good video for y'all to make ,set up a piece of 1 inch bevel and show the fans how to back gouge a weld for x-ray.
That sounds like a great idea.
Most tank contractors have back gouging written into their WPS for new hires. Well at least the ones I've tested for. HMT, Titan, CBT, Phoenix etc
Ever wanted to feel like you are scraping metal off like a hot knife through butter then this is the way to go! These things are so satisfying to use. ^^
I'm still going to call the continuous rods XTENDO rods because a kid in in my class put that out there and me, the teacher and the rest of the class couldn't just get enough of that
I was even on the exam
"What is a coninutous rod for gouging?"
A) Flat rod
B) Round Rod
C) Jointed Rod
D) Xtendo rod
Good stuff just like the last one! ...one(s) / ALL!
Have used it to burn holes through pin on hydraulic cylinders on heavy equipment before. Not as efficient as oxygen lance (Catapillar calls the Caldo Rods), but it works.
There's the noise! Last time I used ours was removing a broken bolt in a blind hole. Just pecked away at it, stopping to clean slag, threads were fine. Fun times, creative thinking.
Thanks Bob
That was useful . Thank you
I use this prosess a lot at work, i hold a 90° angle and pay attention to the backside, that's where I'll see when I'm down to clean metal. you see porosity clear as day this way. :)
Excellent video Bob! Do you think you could do a video on an oxygen lance?
Bob is the man!
Like how there are different diameter rods for stick welding, and different power requirements depending on the choice of rod and the material/thickness, are there different carbon arc rods that might run on less power? I have a 200A TIG machine and I obviously cannot reach 230A.
Bob
You should do a video on oxygen lance.
Ross Arnold ...they were used in steel mills to start the flow of steel down the troughs...
hey quick question dont know if this will be answered or not but whenever i was taught to do arc gouging in my welding/cutting class i always had this problem, which usually happened if i kept the arc long enough or just ended up touching the metal (i got better about it but this still happens) the rod would literally blow up, i assume from it getting too hot or something but is there a way to make it where this happens alot less often?
I've done a lot of this in the field, make sure you have a fire extinguisher handy🤣
What do those gouging rods smell like so I know I'm getting the right ones for the job?
So is this process the same/similar to the gouging done on a plasma cutter?
We use these to cut patches out of tanks to inspect inner welds
👍🏽 thank you!
Arc gouge also cuts stainless unlike an oxy/ace torch
kramer151 Air arc is risky on stainless due to carbon impingement.
Boilermaker here. We're not concerned with carbon impingement just demolition lol Patrick
kramer151 go build some tanks. It's a common practice for grooving the back of CJP joints on tanks and vessels.
Patrick Ramsey I'll add to that, it's common in structural steel on cjps, even on a double bevel, and for cleaning mouse holes
That's cool!
Now as a comparison try using a cuttrode rod, which I used in the field ... I used 1/8 and 3/32 most of the time.
Uncle Bob, could you please talk us thru this process a bit more and compare it with modern plasma cutting? What are the ups and downs of each of them? Either one requires a current source along with pressure air source, so when would you choose the first one and what conditions better suit the second one?
see thYour making a groove. You need to look béhind th the ark as that is where the groove is, especially if you are back gouging a weld. You cane slag line and get the shape of the vee. Also don't let your carbon get too pointed, either break the sharp point off or burn it off that way you leave a nice rounded bottom. With welders it always comes down to well rounded bottoms. Noise levels can reach 140 decibels. and it produces Carbon Monoxide.
Highest ever amps, about 1500 to 1600 ,5/8 carbons and 120 psi. Oh and a mate pouring water on the cable joints.
Learned how to use this at my current job at Bluescope Buildings. We’re always doing Complete Joint Penetrations and gotta use the arc to gouge into clean metal. Gets more annoying when gouging into 1in + thick material cuz then it starts blowing towards u, back into the weld and after it does that it doesn’t let u gouge cleanly anymore💀had that problem today. Better to prep the material before tacking it into place. Makes everything sm easier.
Awesome video. I have a Miller 225 will it handle an Arc gouger?
I think a steeper angle gives you more control over width. But yes this video was better that the other one. I think carbon arc is awesome. Definitely loud.
This process, "Of Elimination" has many applications, its used when and where's it's needed, lots of structural, full-pen welds/CJP joints with back gouging a back up bar or where ceramic backing....etc. blah blah I could go on and on lol.
Does anyone know if it is an OSHA rule that you have to wear ear plugs and ear muffs simultaneously when arc gouging in a shop? We got fined a few years back.
My dad taught me how to carbon arc weld to repair galvanized sheet metal using deoxidized copper back in the late 70's. Blew my shop teacher's mind. "No, you can't weld galvanized" Ah, yes you can, as I welded up a mailbox. Actually, it's brazing ... technically! Nice video Bob, I've never tried arc gouging. They sell all the stuff down at my welding supply but never found a use for it.
Hi Bob,
Is the "cameraman pays out $10 if you stick an electrode" offer still valid? 😁.
You are a great teacher and I appreciate you taking the time to make these videos for us. I have learned a lot considering that I used to weld like crap. After a year of practice, I can just about lay down a mediocre bead. Due to my poor hand-eye coordination, I doubt welding will ever be more than a hobby for me. While learning, I have gained much respect for the men and women who weld for a living. Even with hands as steady as a surgeon's, it must take years to become a truly skilled welder.
I have a top crank Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC machine. It's max amperage AC is 230 and DC is 150. Is 150 amps DC enough to carbon arc if using a smaller electrode?
Best practices for boring holes through 3" manganese ? Is a certin rod better than others? Rod angle? Ect.. slag kept blowing up top my shield and coming down inside burning my beard. Should air holes be held on top side of the rods or bottom?
Love the videos Bob. Keep them coming!
Yeah been there done that... if you're talkin 3-inch manganese... you need to use a burn bar.. basically the same thing only a whole lot longer and a lot quicker.. research it but yeah.. punching a hole in 3 in thick manganese.. wow yeah it can be done I've done it.. it can be done with an oxy acetylene torch.. it depends on how many holes you got to make what's your resources are.. but if you're working on a shredder.. and your line of plates aren't fitting up on a regular basis... get a burn bar!!-
So can I buy the gouge stinger and hook it up to my stick welder off amazon?
Will this work on thinner metal at lower amps?
I have a 200 amp welder and a chance to get a used ArcAir rig.
Would I be able to use it at all?
Very interesting as always. I have never actually seen this process. Am I to assume that the electrode holder has a point that pierces into the electrode and thus air travels through it and to the end of the electrode blowing the molten pool away as you travel forward? If not can anyone explain how the air assist works? Thank You
Harold Watkins the electrode holder has two swilling copper contacts to hold the electrode, these have several air passage ways that blow high compressed air towards the 'gouged' material. Pause on a closeup on the holder to see what I mean 👍
Thank you Stevo450ify. I did stop the video as Mr. Moffatt was explaining. I know he said 80 psi, and after thinking about it the air going through these size holes would blow it away. I was wondering why Mr. Moffatt held the electrode halfway on the electrode holder. I imagine it is to facilitate the air delivery to the end of the electrode. to far back and the air delivery would not be sufficient. Thank you again, my friend. I appreciate you taking the time to help me to understand this process
Could someone please explain how the air gets to the work piece from the gun; I first thought it would travel through the electrode but with it connected 4 inch in, don't see how that can be the case? Thanks
It comes from the clamp. Google air arc and you'll see some pics
Thanks Bob. Where might you use this process over other cutting (used loosely) processes?
SD B large industrial applications. It takes out a lot of metal in no time. I work in a shipyard and we use it a lot for full penetration joints.
Alright, thank you! Good info.
Also for heavy plant repair, cutting out old welds to replace/repair a damaged section.
Dose amps control depth??
What might be the lowest amperage that you could gouge? Thinner material less amps??
Workshop Tazz if you lower the amps to much you can infuse carbon into the steel by not melting the metal enough to blow away, kinda like lowering amps on a stick electrode will tend to stick alot and results arent as good. Btw CAC will kill a machine thats not capable of the duty cycle
Some have suggested the Valles Marineris is a system of canyons that were created by Solar Arc Gouging.
Bob you look exactly like Chris Cooper, The actor from the movie *The Kingdom*.
We use those carbon rods and silicon bronze to weld our galvanized duct
Would oxo/fuel cutting not be a neater / easier process ? Need more info on useage for this
paul lynch the point of the process
Is mostly to remove old welds to separate damaged sections of weldments. I use this process every day repairing railcars it’s a lot faster and cleaner than a torch if you need to save parts to be welded back on
Why would you use this to separate two pieces without destroying them when you can use an acetylene torch? Thanks!
I’m a little confused as to were the air comes out, is it coming from the end of the rod.
There are holes for the air right on the copper part that holds the rod. On the side closer to your hand. If you watch part one you might be able to see it better.
Torch angle is just like stick welding. All you have to do is make it favorable to what you're trying to do.
A more shallow angle makes a more shallow gouge. Steeper angle makes a deeper one. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-45 is best practice. Closer to flat angle for thinner stuff. Because it can be like driving a carpet tack thru paper w a sledgehammer if you're not careful and the blow thru is not fun to weld up.
We run 500 to 550 amps gouging on our jobs. Though we don't work with any thin metal.
Wanted too see results! Did the 15' angle do better than the 30' angle or did the greater than 30' angle do better!! kinda left in limbo!! TEXT BOOK SAYS 30' angle IS OPTIMUM! WHY DID YOU NOT SAY THAT!!!
Nice sir
Nice
About 40% of my day is spent air arcing, it's easier to to spray nix stix down first. It makes clean up a breeze
I like to use my sycrowave and turn on the pedal function it's only live when I press the pedal
I bought some carbon electrodes for the first time ever for light gauge cutting.. didn't know there was a stinger meant for gouging. I used my regular electrode holder 😅
It's to hot turn it down I've done tones of carbon arc I no when it's needs to be adjusted by hearing it weather its a video or in person I love it i can do left right swipe threw that means keep that arc constant I've executed over 1000 full pen welders failed 10 of them I've executed 20 xrays. My word of advice scarf deep and lay them in hot don't be afraid to turn that machine up.
I don't understand how the air supply works. How does it get from the clamp to the tip if one uses a solid electrode, or is the air just for cooling the torch?
NemesisRTCW there are air jets in the clamp,you can see them better in the previous video. They direct the air externally in a V pattern and converge at tip of electrode, around 4-5 inches in this case.
NemesisRTCW The air shoots out of the clamp around the electrode. It's used to blow the material away.
Thanks guys for the explanation.
What kind of amperage?
230A was mentioned
Thanks mustve missed it, heard the 80 psi tho!
Does bob moffit not work at Callie collage anymore?!
Just a theory, but if he's recording a video elsewhere and isn't using the school's equipment, electricity, or supplies, then he has no need to disclose the school's name.
It also just turned summer and the semester probably just ended, if they needed to close the weld shop for any reason then that might explain why he's not at the school. A remodel might take out the program for a couple of months.
👍
Video, does not do justice to the sound created by that thing. Once you run one of those at over 300 amps and see your leads jump around from the EMF field from them being coiled on the side of the machine, you you know what true power is haha!
Try it overhead standing on a beam or a float 200 ft up...
getredytagetredy and try to fight gravity on lifting the huge balls that he carries with him
Damn I missed watching this while eating some tacos.
I too wish I could have eaten tacos while watching an educational video on Carbon Arc Gouging
I don't need to watch the videos on CAG since I was taught a little about it and I can do it ok. I just want to get the info. Whilst eating tacos.
My comment on the last video was about thermal lancing. I may be smart sometimes, but I'm STOOPID more often than not.🤤
My daily job
Surprised you didn’t showed your finished desired product.
skim a little at at a time until you clear that fusion line on full pen butts and corners
Take a half inch carbon arc rod, find a machine with enough amps to run, put on a half a dead cow and your best ear plugs and strike an arc blast. You will have a better understanding of The Big Bang and how the universe came to be.
You know you're doing real gouging when you have to weave where I work we have to cut out big welds 30+ mm
Sir, gouging requires a compressed air source, I don’t see how you plugged it with electrode. Pls explain
Couldn't you achieve the exact same thing with a grinder, or maybe even some 6010 rod on higher than normal amperage? I suppose it's rather quick compared to a grinder. I'm just asking.
what, no look at the actual gouged area?
Bob carbon arc is the most damaging tool to your hearing I can think of reglar ear plugs aren't good enough get a pair of earplugs custom fit to your ears I'm serious on this.
I believe ya
You arc away from your body plus you look behind the rod so you can see your material and not flame and how deep your going
6:48 that looks like crap.
Carbon arcin. Where men turn into boys.
Not good, i also gauge every day ultra welding, you must look behind not in front
Are all your videos promoting alcohol and alcoholism?
You a welder?
I don't like it,, it reminds me of the dentist.