Spine Wack Testing Over 20 Knife Locks Which Ones Will Fail ?
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- Опубліковано 27 гру 2023
- TESTING OVER 20 KNIFE LOCKS WITH SPINE WACK TESTS TO SEE WHICH ONES SLIP OR FAIL AND WHICH ONES HOLD UP WELL.
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every knifemaker is collectively holding their breath right now.
I don't think so
Except for cold steel lol!!
@@jimmycricket7946 lol. Cold steel is yelling "hit it harder! My grandma hits harder than that!"
@@chrisjohnson9542lmao cold steel is like that guy at the gym who lifts things up and puts them down 💪 ain’t nobody gonna mess with them
Forge Gloyd
Holt knives are also known for failing the spine whack test very easily. After watching this video I tested my Holt Specter and indeed it failed the spine whack, even when just hitting the spine on my knee. Someone at Blade Show went to the Holt booth after buying a Specter having this issue, but was told "That's normal for us.". And the knives with this issue which he returned were re-sold the same day to other customers. So apparently some companies don't care about their knives failing this test easily.
The majority of my folders are frame locks. With my hand over the lockbar, I am 100% confidence in using the knife. I did find the test interesting, thanks.
My question here would be a should it fail? I understand the force of grip will make the lock almost completely fail safe but should the makers be relying on this fact or should the lock work without? A slip joint with a pin relays on pressure a frame lock shouldn’t.
Us knife people must all think alike..... this is exactly what I been itching for lately, testing the limits of various knife locking mechanisms from our favorite manufacturers. I can't explain where these urges come from.🤷♂️
Why?
@@onemanhisdub1969 Reliability!!
Interesting. I guess it can't be a bad thing if industry focuses more on lock reliability.
I do single whack tests only. I figure if I have an accident in the field, it won't be repeated strikes. I don't record it, I just like to know I can trust the tool I'm using. Great video
Thanks for the shout out, very kind! Looks like I need to make some strops out of harder wood for you next time. Maybe some ironwood Micarta 😅
Just checked 34 of my knives! I had a failure on a Grimsmo Norseman and a Hinderer Project X. I tightened the pivot on the Grimsmo and cleaned the oil off the lock faces of both with alcohol and now I can’t make them fail.
I have a feeling almost all failures are from tension on the blade at pivot. And lock adjustment and tension is super important also!
....anything less than the Tri-ad Lock is uncivilized 👊
He didn't even bother testing the Triad ....everybody knows it reins supreme.
Too bad it's used on garbage could steel knives
Could
?@@lawrenceragnarok1186
@@lawrenceragnarok1186 there's always 1. What's the matter? Momma didn't give you enough love as a child?
@@SixArmedPriest they're garbage now and have been for a couple years, are you being intentionally dense or do you not own any after they sold to GSM
This was a great video … not only to say “who” but also the why behind some of these failures vs lock design choices/geometry.
Thanks for sharing bud!👊🏻professional whacking at its finest.
Awesome video and clarifications about why its important, how it works, and about break in periods.
Good video! Appreciate the testing. You were honest and not disparaging.
……throughly enjoyed the vid 🙌🏼 good info as well. Thx and happy new year Jared 🏴☠️
All I can say is... Go Demko and Snecx! And may they inspire all lock creators and company QCs to be the best they can be. All Hail!
My only knives I could get to fail were both Civivi’s, Hypersonic and Voltaic. Both failures easily repeatable but also both newer knives for me so maybe that break in period or cleaning the lock surfaces will fix it.
I got the voltaic. Gotta test ot out now.
Thanks Jared for GBalling a variety of knives and your discussion. Wow, that Herman is really something.
That's hilarious 😂
I was glad to see that the Kizer mad tanto did well. I’ve seen talks about it failing. Awesome video. Thanks.
Maybe the Longer the blade and blade stock thickness the better chance of reverberations to fail. Just a thought 🤔
Jared you should do one of these videos every month or so!
Damn This would be very interesting as a series. I am cautiously optimistic about the compression lock. Part of me doesn't want to know, but the manix 2 lw passed with its ball lock.
Great video!!!
I have had this happen with a Benchmade when cutting something up in a ceiling and I ended up hitting a sprinkler pipe.
Had gloves on so no big deal but I like to test my stuff so it works well in all situations.
Oh man, I was testing my SBD apex just before you tested it. I'm going to chalk it up to the fact that I've been carrying mine for a long time and it's just more broken in that the one you tested. Was also holding my breathe on the Severn bc I got in on the drop. I'm glad you're doing this so I don't have to.
I tested mine wacked it pretty gd 10 times. It didn't fail. Idk it prob my favorite knife didn't want it to fail
That Herman when you whacked it my god those things sound amazing
Also on an impact it creates vibrations that can cause it to bounce past the lock if theres any pivot play that can also be a factory on a impact test, but be a non issue on a prressure test
THX for the tests.
I did this the other day with all 22 of my ZT’s, and 4 of them ended up failing. As did an MSI and two XM-18’s. And it doesn’t bother me at all. I really think it’s a non issue. There is no scenario I can imagine where if you’re pushing down on the edge and cutting, applying upward pressure to the blade, that the back of the spine is going to be simultaneously struck harder with more downward pressure and close on your hand, especially if you’re holding the lockbar. I don’t know why this has taken on so much traction, with a guy online the other day calling the MSI “crap” because the spine whack closed it. To me, it’s like complaining that if you flip a car over onto its roof that the passenger compartment might get mashed. Ok, sure, but what’s your point? I don’t even bother testing them this way anymore, but thanks for doing it for us! 👍
Right, like he said in a real-life situation the lock won’t be “shocked” that hard, and if your hand is on the lockbar and under the flipper tab it wouldnt close anyway
100% this. I also don't know why this is such a thing now. I've never spine whacked any of my knives because that can't and won't happen while I use them. I've never had any lock fail during any kind of use, be it liner, frame, or button lock. I wish this fad would go away already.
@@jason11286
"but its muh lock strength," they say.
If you want to bang on your knives like a neanderthal, be my guest. I get the idea behind it, but it just seems dumb since you are NOT supposed to use a knife like that. Impacts are always possible while using a knife and it is up to you to use a cutting tool carefully and responsibly. I will NEVER put myself in a situation where I would cut myself or create an impact. Accidents happen of course, but I am very mindful while using a knife. I don't want an accident so the likelihood of one happening is very, very low. However still possible, but very low. So low that I do not need every knife to have triad levels of lock up just to cut something.
People seem to forget that knives need to be treated like loaded guns. Cut away from yourself (barrel pointed down and away from others), don't put downward pressure on the spine (don't look down the barrel), and keep your fingers out of the cutting path (finger off trigger and safety on). Not sure if that analogy works. My brain is weird.
I don't want a lock to fail so do not get me wrong. Passing a brute force test is cool I suppose, but in my opinion it feels pointless. Knives don't cut by hitting repeatedly with the dull spine of the blade. Eh, I don't know.🤷♂
A zip tie closed tight you use the knife to cut but this zip tie is heavy duty so it doesnt cut as you remove the blade for the incision area the spine hits the upper part of the ziptie and thats cause the knife to fail. Happened on a sog keyknife lockback.
@@brunorojas3992 I can’t picture it, sorry. Not doubting your version, but can’t see the back of the blade hitting the upper part of anything. But I slip the blade tip up under zip ties regardless and just lift up popping them off, so, again, all stress is reinforcing the lock anyway.
Cut myself badly on the side of my first knuckle on my index finger once breaking a bottle with a knife once. Thanks for testing these!
The only knives I've had that have failed spine whack testing are button locks. Never a We/Civivi/Sencut button lock though. Side note - that We Riff Raff is one of my favorites this year. The closing action is so satisfying.
Spine whacking a Herman…. Got me singing “I would do anything for love” over here 😂😂
😆 🤣
You need the knight gauntlet like Metal Complex...😂😂😂...STAY CRUSHIN IT BUDDY...👊
No he doesn’t cuz he grabs the knife like a sane person
@@MikeJ602tbf he can’t put as much force behind it this way.
@@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 why? Everyone else does. He’s a big boy he can grab it hard whack it 😂
@Neeves I love your Sting man, beautiful machine I’m gonna have to get me one.
You're just the BEST....Jaryd .!
Great video brother!!
Wow I didn't expect the hinderer to fail. Thanks Jared
While I understand the idea of these tests, Just use the knife as intended. With your hand covering the frame lock, I don’t see how it would fail.
@@danielclemens4509 I was just shocked it failed. I still want one.
I have a frame lock. Okc shrika. You just gotta simply look at the spine and it ublocks. The liner doesnt slip under the blade. It kisses it so it just doesnt engage. Eventually ill look up how to fix it.
Great video, please do more
All it takes is to have a knife fail on you once to make you test every knife you have. Happened to me once and it got me bad enough that it changed my view on what a locking knife is supposed to be. It happened during a back strike when i pulled the knife out of a cut quickly and struck the spine of the knife. A touch of sanding with a diamond plate to the lock bar face was enough to correct the problem (only a tiny amount was needed). Afterwards i checked every knife i own to ensure a solid lock up. No reason whatsoever that a knife made today should fail this simple test. Its either a design problem or a manufacturing problem 100% especially after a proper break in period. Thanks for the great vid Jerad and keep making sharp things fun and enjoyable.
Had a sog key knife lockback fail was gutting a zip tie and when i went to remove the blade the zip tie pushed on the spine pretty hard and it closed the knife.
Way to go, Civivi!
Oddly enough the only knives I own that I could get to fail were 2 of my Hinderers and my MSI. I still carry them, though, as I've never had an issue with them during normal use.
I check all mine. Except I hit mine in palm. Just seems to be an even ground. Only have 2 that failed. A WE Beacon and my older TRM Neutron 2. But that's over 2 years old with a ti liner and im at 100% lock up. There's no more to break in. Its just wearing away now. But it stayed solid for a long time. TRM already said theyd replace the liner. But Jerad I too was curious about Medford especially your slim midi. A few times you've expressed concern cuz the frame lock is so thin.
Another great video
great info
I stay getting up-and-down/front-to-back lock-rock/blade-play on my knifes... specifically liner locks and button locks. The only lock that has failed on me has been Benchmade's Axis Lock on a G10 bugout when the springs snapped. Also, do all crossbar locks have blade-play/lock-rock?
I just checked my vosteed mini nightshade and there is just a hint of lock rock. Nothing that is worrisome imo.
Every crossbar lock I've owned (two Bugouts, two 940's, two Deka's) will either have blade play, or tight action. If you want a nice dropping action, you're going to have blade play at lock up. If you don't want blade play during lock up, you're going to have a tighter/not easy-shut action.
Side note - just got a Vosteed Mini Nightshade yesterday....zero blade play at lockup and crazy drop shut action. So good for the price
I totally like your approach, Jarad. It's true that with everything in the universe based on vibrations this is a factor that will enter into any moving mechanical pieces and parts. Cold Steel tests used to put up to 600 lb on the back of a triad lock, but as you say constant pressure differs from a momentary shocking force.
In real world use I have yet to see a spine wack factor in to folder use, at least in my daily usage.
I'm also noticing that my MSI lock is seating further forward now than 5 months ago, so your wear-in concept may be quite valid. I would also mention that the types of metal used in mating surfaces may also factor in, which is what causes a galling on surfaces like titanium against steel.
Final comment: who was doing spine whack testing 20 years ago or 10 years ago or even 5 years ago???
I think it's been thrown out there recently simply to get our attention and clicks, and hardly factors into real world usage, unless the user is using a folder when he should be using a fixed blade. If I'm wrong I'll certainly let you know... 😊
Good to see the manix 2 lw pass. No reason for that to fail, but it was reassuring to see the test. This is some fucking good content Jared!
Question about the MSI. Is it possible that the new ones with the narrower lock have had the geometry adjusted to fix the issue. I recently purchased the black bladed FRN model with a born on date of 11/2023.
I'm not sure however I've watched about 5 or so fail from light taps, including some stitches, I'm going to see if I can fix mine with the sand paper trick if so I will make a video
@@NeevesKnives Were they all the older models with the wider cross bar? I just spine whacked mine with no issue.
My harsey has lock stick so bad it turns into a fixed blade when you open it. 😂😅 no lock slip is possible when it feels welded to the lock bar when you open it. 😊
Yah i adjusted a PM2 into a BAM , strong detent , you think the stop pin is gonna blow up the scales 🤣🤣🤘🤩
I did the spine whack test in a video I posted yesterday and was whacking the hell out of the Microtech MSI and Amphibian with no issues. Maybe I should try again and post another video?
I saw your video. I'm not smart enough to say why some fail and others don't. I imagine there's a fix though.
My Miguron Ameight Gladiator2 from Amazon is the only knife in my little ol' knife collection that has failed and I have a couple of knives that failed in this video but didnt when I tested them. I guess it's hit n miss on some.
oh my. nooo. spine whacks cause vibrations. buttonlocks, frame locks and linerlocks are susceptible to spine whacks because of the vibration loads on the springed locking interface. the vibrations cause them to wiggle which causes them to disengage.
I'm whacking it right now...
Solid lock up?
I have the apex so I saw your test. Had to try mine I was nervous. I wacked it pretty gd 10 times no failure. Not sure I hit it pretty hard idk.
My MSI is rock solid... 12/2023 mfg. I hope they worked out the bugs by now. It's a great knife!
Mine is 06/2023, and it fails fairly easily.
Thay elementum is sick. Ima need that
I was physically cringing when you were spine whacking the Herman. I knew how sad you’d be to see it fail, glad it didn’t.
Thanks for making this video. Before buying a knife I want to have as much information on quality and durability
as possible
Yes. I think that is the essential undercurrent in this new (thank you GBall) facet of digging into "quality". These exquisite steels and knife builders raise the bar on all aspects of these creations. It's not criticism to be mean, it's the striving for excellence at all levels of price.
I'm surprised more knives don't fail this test. By whacking the spine, you're turning the knife into a Newton's Cradle and any lock that lacks enough inherent friction in it's design and lockup to resist the transfer of kinetic energy will want to thrust the lock mechanism back the way it came. "Failing" this test doesn't in itself make a knife worry me anymore than a handle failing a cut test because it's simply not how they are designed to operate. However, button locks in general just don't have enough contact in their mechanisms to interest me. All that said, what would really interest me is whether the same whacking test done on the SHARPENED edge would create enough dwell time of the lock mechanism loosening to fold the blade shut after you lift it off the struck surface immediately(or pass through immediately as in chopping a branch in one stroke). A chopping test if you will, more in line with actual use cases. Guessing you would find the same knives would fail. Chop with fixies only is my 2 cents, regardless of which edge you choose.
Exactly! Newton's Cradle is a good analogy :)
Whacking like this creates a shock on the materials, resulting in resonance, making the locking surfaces hop on each other. So the parts can move out of their ideal locking position. On the frame locks, the hand would tighten the lock-position (as Jared already mentioned). On all knife-types the resonance might be dampened significantly just by holding the knife naturally. On button locks, exactly this test is not only ratttling the buttons free but also the swinging may prevent the spring to do it's repositioning work (kinda special scenario imho). All in all, It would make more sense to redo the tests on the failing knives with a regular grip (using a secure glove) and whack the blades with wood, not vice versa! BE FAIR!!!
Yeah, that would be interesting! Damping would have a positive effect on many designs. Guys just need to be careful. Jared is brave doing this without kevlar gloves or something even with his careful grip. CBR's mishap with the MSI, if you caught that, still makes me wince!@@gologulug1295
What use case does the spine whack represent?
Turning with knife in hand and it hitting something, knife getting stuck going through something dense and needing to be pulled out, pressure on the spine of blade, small taps to cut through something like cordage or wood, fighting with the only option you have etc...
The Herman it even makes cool sounds when you spine wak it😂
FIGURES Jared be the one who doesnt even wear gloves, 🤘🤩
Wow, what's the clip point knife at 16:04
Awesome 😎
This seriously tells the masses of the winning personalities of knife people, all sitting here watching a straight 20+ minutes of someone banging knives off a friggin 1x2 piece of wood, bitting their nails, waiting for something exciting to happen on New Years Eve 😳🤔🥺….I totattly need a girlfriend & am no going to cry myself to sleep in the fetal position.
I wouldn't say all that, I'd say it's people that care about there hobby and the things they collect.
@@NeevesKnives had to poke some fun at this
Great Video 😮😊. You're right as. Usual. 😂
Was waiting for Vision fg , snecx lock?
My Byrd Cara felt like it was about to give in when cutting cheese. I could feel it in my hand. Ruike faild as I was trying to baton through a piece of wood
That sencut cant be called the sentinal strike can it? Thats a civivi model. Would they use that name for a sencut model too?
so i just received my kizer cormorant v2... what a badass knife.. i just said fuck it and spine whacked into tomorrow!! its still a badass knife, thank goodness. my olitanz failed though, like it was meant too bro. should give yours a go, im just curious. thanks for sharing your mind with us... later
I’ve stretched the button spring on my Vosteed Thunderbird but it still fails.
My thunderbird doesn't fail, but it's the mini version. I don't like the light detent though.
What knife is at 8:45?
you forgot to do Maxace. and the Titanis. haha jkiddddinggg
Making me flinch over and over, hard for me to watch this.
My kizer begleiter XL lock fails after a gentle tap. I can even make it fail with my hand by slowly pushing on the back of the blade.
try stretching the spring out it usually helps
Mine did the same thing just bad geometry on that model
Same with mine, plus it has up and down play. Tried all the tricks, stretching spring, cleaning tang, etc.., all to no avail. I have more confidence in a slip lock than this model.
@LonestarTaoboy Yeah, I even got sent a new blade and button with a new spring from kizer. Did stop it for a while but went right back.
Good on WE 😎
You should try some Medford and Spartan Harsey
My MSI is solid
I think a proper test would be... Stabbing wood... as you would put pressure on the blade as it would be more natural for a knife.
By the way, at 11:18, the Sencut Sentinel Strike? Please let me know the real name of that model, because the Sentinel Strike is a new CIVIVI model, and I don’t think Sencut makes one of the same name. Cool looking knife!
P.S. Just found it on their site, the “Glidestrike!” Sencut is really stepping it up lately. 👏
Based on your tests I will never spend money on a Hinderer Knife and I would send all of yours in for a free repair!
That is such a shame for a brand made in the USA!
Benchmade Adamas and contego fail this test. I’ve tested multiple different ones. Also kershaw blurs.
Microtech... lads... what are you doing to us? You're charging over 3 beans for that model.
0:50 Friction, as we define it, is not a function of time. I think what you are describing is a different phenomenon or a combination of phenomena related to bonds. I don't think those are at play here however. I believe the reason for the lock failing has more to do with the contact between the locking parts being disrupted because of the sudden jolt due to the spine being whacked. At that point the friction changing from static to kinetic might also play a part.
Since you getting all technical, what Jared calls friction is actually friction. I called it a static lockup in one of my vids, but explaining the Young’s modulus of elasticity, More’s machine taper, and bearing pressures due to contact deformation is not only difficult, it would also be boring to 99% of knife users.What you called a jolt and Jared called time to form friction are basically substitutes for the term Impulse. What’s important is that finally one of the biggest knife channels is holding the industry to task and he’s going to get them to listen way before I could with my 4K subs…
@@CuttingBoardRx Would it be fair to say that the spine tap vibration (micro-separations at the lock contact surfaces) plus less than optimal contact (angle, area, machine finish, etc) at the point of lock up is the root cause? Can you simplify your analysis to a layman's understanding? And thanks for chiming in. I love the informative cross-talk in this community.
@@CuttingBoardRx Friction (f=kN) is not a function of time, period.
Thanks for this type of testing, very important and hardly anyone tests their folders in this manner.
What's the model @ 8:19 ?
Null Voodoo some are dropping around 3 today I think
Can someone explain to me why this matters in the least? If a knife fails this spine whack test, what is the real world impact? What usages does it affect?
Ill stick to my edc fixed blade😊😂
Great video Jared! I was a little surprised you didn't try a Spyderco w/ a ball bearing lock and a compression lock, or maybe even a liner lock? I think you did a great job anyway, I was just thinking how popular and common spyderco's are that it might be nice to see also.
He knows the compression lock , will not fail from spine wack, lock geometry wont allow it
He did test a Manix 2, which uses the ball bearing lock.
@@cueball981 I must've missed that one! Thanks!
@@mikerollins3088 it's a white one. Was very quick.
*spine wacks an OTF*
Anyone else out there just not trust button locks? There is just so little material contacting the blade tang and it's rounded off. They may be great for most people but I choose knives I can completely trust in any situation. Button locks, while being easy and ergonomic, just don't inspire confidence in my opinion.
Wonder why the MSI failed?
Those are love taps,compared to what i did .
Come on man, hit it like it owes you money!
Can we play a guessing game with knives just by their shadow profile?
Hearing this more and more about the Ram Lock knives and I have been wanting one so bad, I am thinking Microtech came out with a Knife and lock of the year and production QC fell through the cracks. I am sure they would fix a knife for free but maybe I will waiting for this to be fixed in production. Microtech and this knife are too good for this to be so common for very long. I think they rushed it into production in 23 and it should have been 2024
Shark Lock fails every time on my AD20.5
Kizer drop bear failed almost immediately
Crap. My new MSI arrives tomorrow 😢
break it in no worries,
I’d say you’ll be good my msi and stitch both passed. It could widely vary from knife to knife
Stranger than friction
My Qubit must be a lemon because the lock fails every time
I hate that Elementum Gift Box. I just want the Knife.