Its Just Knife Talk Dont Get Your Panties Up in a Bunch
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- TODAYS VIDEO IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE CONTROVERSAL, NOT THAT IM GOING FOR THAT HOWEVER I DO WANT AN OPEN DISCUSSION. HRC AND GEOMETRY ON KNIVES IS THE TOPIC, IM USING HINDERER KNIVES AS A TALKING POINT BUT I COULD OF DONE OTHERS OR MANY. SO THIS DOES GO FOR MANY OTHER COMPANIES AS WELL.
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I KNOW IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS ONLY DIRECTED AT HINDERER KNIVES BUT ITS ABSOLUTELY NOT, THIS GOES FOR ANY COMPANY RUNNING LOW HRC ON ANY STEEL ON A POCKET KNIFE. THANK YOU FOR WATCHING PLEASE LEAVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS BELOW.
Honest question. Will you still carry your Hinderer with a faulty lock up? I just spine/tip whacked mine and it malfunctioned . Love the knife but not sure I can carry it
This is the kicker if it costs you say $500 for us to get one in the UK that price in dollars goes up just a bit with postage and handling fees then vat to wait for it and see if you would consider it such a good deal. Get ready Jerad $ 716.25 at today’s exchange rate. I can already hear you shouting no feking way would you pay that for a knife that if you sneeze it will unlock itself 😂🫵😘👍
Can you use 90 rubbing alcohol and clean off the lockface and tang. Just drench it in solution to get rid of lube and try again. Run the bearings dry too so no lube drips on the lock.
@@tacticalcenter8658 yes i have done that i shoulda said that, but since i say it all the time i figured people knew i woulda done that but thats my fault for not saying, someone did say i should change to teflon and see what happens so im gonna
@@NeevesKnives yeah I only mwntioend it cause I saw that video of someone calling you out on that and rhe washer vs bearings. But bearings shouldn't do that. Perhaps having bearings is just a marketing gimmick for Hinderers.
Last time someone made a video being critical of Hinderer he came after them with a lawsuit. This might be opening up a can of worms and some headaches. Clearly his ego is as fragile as the lock up on those knives. Thanks for having enough balls to put this out in the knife community.
lol. my guy folds like his lockbars
I'm ok with that, I think that would just cause bigger issues for him more than anything
Hinderer would be a fool to file suit for a video like this again. The community would eat him alive. The community will not put up with bullying again just as we didn't the first time.
@@NeevesKnivesHinderer would be stupid to try a lawsuit like that these days. Social media and the internet has made it much harder to get away with that kind of thing. It will cost them a great deal in reputation and reputation means sales.
I have not owned one since I had one fail on me years ago. But you are right.....if it's meant to hold an edge.....run the HT higher, they have zero reason not to.
If you're gonna charge $400+ for a knife, the hrc should be in the optimal range for the steel, and lock up should be like a bank vault. There are zero excuses for not doing it.
So do you have a Hinderer and did you see if it locked up solid? I checked mine and it locked up solid.
I agree completely!
@@scrick7112 I won't ever own or buy a hinderer. There over priced for what you get in my opinion plus Rick hinderer is one of the biggest assholes in the knife industry
Especially the lock. If all the major Chinese knife manufacturers can make a sub $100 knife with all of them having solid locks there is no excuse for this.
@@joeyy6918 I own knives that were $10 that have solid lockup
The HRC issue is one thing, having the damn lock fail on any knife is just ridiculous. At this dollar amount thats just sad
*_Ladies and gentlemen this is how we the people hold manufacturers accountable, and push them to DO BETTER!_*
*_Your a real one Jerad!_*
*EDIT:* _For the record, I have 11 out of 13 Hinderers that also fail this easily! Now maybe people will believe it! I told you.. the rate of failure is _*_ASTOUNDING!_*
*_Lock-face geometry is as, if not more important than the blade geometry itself! After my realization of the rate of failure out there; I was infuriated to say the least that this is seemingly so easily overlooked by multiple & many big name manufacturers!_*
_(ALL Malibu's fail this easily also!)_
When you have used one a whole lot, wearing in that framelock, will it get stronger? 🤔
Because I have a theory that they overbuild their MagnaCut to be even more tough, and overbuilding their framelock to be extra long living. 🤔
Jerad also said one of his was fialing him before, but didn't this time around. Maybe that one wore in during that time since it failed. 🤔
Thanks Jared for doing what very few in your position are willing to do , think all anyone who loves knives wants is for everything to get better, regardless of whether or not you use the knife hard or it sits in a case wanting better material , hrc , lock up and plain old integrity should be important to us all . Well done !
Love the brutal honesty brother! Everything should be fact based from a creator! Keep it up and thank you!!!
This is what Erica edc was talking about the other day.
Which episode, I want to watch!
I’m with you I like Hinderer knives and have owned several but for the price they should be damn near flawless. I can buy a Glock for the price of some hinderer knives. If 6 out of every Glock failed what people keep shelling out money to buy them or maybe ask they fix their product?
good point
I’m with you. Just trying to have a discussion. Hinderer is proud of his knives. Why not make them tip top if you could? Change two things you can got from a C+ to an A+? The rational isn’t there I don’t get it. $400 to $500 for a pocket knife is a big ask for a lot of people. To not have the quality to back that price is almost a slap in the face to the buyers and community.
Glocks can have issues, but they are Law Enforcement standard issue for a reason. Personally, prefer Colt which was my issued sidearm inn the Army, which was far more reliable then the M-16, which was horrible but I love them anyway.
Imagine if every 6th shot the round would go into you instead of the target! The company would collapse. But with folding knives... 🤦🏻
Nah, this is completely reasonable, and I think applies to many other flaws/shortcuts I keep seeing in “premium” knives generally. Lots of soft heat treats, uncentered blades, uneven grinds and edges, and massively-inflated prices that absolutely aren’t justified by either the materials or build quality
False , spydeco backs their toughness and hrc, and they’re a big company
@@havosoSpydercos are to be carried and used the ones he is talking about go in a case to be played with every now and then.
False, I use my hinderers when I rotate , I may not use for hard use , but I use at work box cutting mail and plastic and tape , as I am a truck driver , I use my shit
Glad I went with a Reeve inkosi instead of a xm-18
Grab an attorney brother. I know Rick has a history of coming after people. 💯
For a $400-500 I'd expect only good steel and amazing edge retention and HRC... I'm buying Spyderco over Hinderer all day any day...
Looks like someone is about to get a cease and desist order from ol Ricky! haha, but thank you for bringing this to light, I have my first hinderer coming and this will be the first thing I check, if it fails its going back. Not paying 425 for light lockup AND low HRC. Thanks!
Update after receiving my Hinderer Eklipse 3.5 harpoon tanto, spinewhacked and it didn’t flinch. No lock stick, sharp as a laser and centered, even grind, flawless assembly. Couldn’t be happier.
When I buy my magnacut knife( haven't yet) it will be one with a guaranteed hrc of 63+. Microtech is the same way. They run their steels soft.
That's good to know. I was attracted to some of the magna cut microtech knives. There is no excuse for soft steels these days.
Because microtech is overrated overpriced garbage as well. Pieces of shit void the warranty if you sharpen it. What knife company voids the warranty if you sharpen it?? It’s a Fing knife!!
@@cfltitan 😆, I didn't know they void the warranty if you sharpen it. That is nuts.
@@kraftzion I have no clue what this guy is going on about, google and read the microtech warranty yourself, they DO NOT void the warranty if you sharpen your knife lol. They say if you damage or modify it during disassembly to sharpen it, it will be up to their discretion if it is covered free of charge or not.
They used to void warranty for that. They dont anymore. But they still don't like it when you do.
Greetings from Czechia! Thank you Neeves for posting this video…i get tired of channels like MetalComplex with no objectivity..you show it like it is and that´s why you are the most reliable knife reviewer there is! Thanks mate!
I would sell all of those and never buy another one. What a sham
I have 4 Hinderers and they all passed. I guess I’m lucky. I really enjoy your channel Jerad and stay strong for the storm that’s coming. I appreciate what you do for the knife community. Thank you.
Thank you
Facts: Soft steel, Don't come sharp, lock fails rudimentary tests that budget knives breeze through. I have never been a hinderer fan because of astetics alone but that never made them bad knives to me...this does.
I just checked my 3 XM-18s and my 24. All with steel lockbar inserts and all on bearings. I was whacking a whole lot harder than you and NONE failed! I do live your videos though. Keep them coming!
It's been a hot second since I watched an entire knife video all the way through. This was a banger bro. And I like the placement of the bike in the beginning too. Lol
I didn’t believe you. Then i took my every day carry xm-18 and gave it some pretty light taps and the lock failed just like in this video. Never had a problem when using in the real world, but now i know to be careful and be aware that it can fail. Always thought it was bullet proof. Wow
Thank you, Jarred for addressing this issue. They might as well be blading those knives with crap with that HRC. I can't see the value of not treating the magnacut right. Is it that difficult to heat treat it 2-3 more points? It really don't make it less tough.
Some of the old _ZT_ knives were like those Hinderers, especially the 200 - you could fold them shut like slip joints w/-out even unlocking the blade.
Exactly what I was thinking. Old ZT use to be my favorite knife company, and I still do have a soft spot for their products, but after 5 of my 7 frame-locks from them had failure (from similar pressure Jared's using), I couldn't stand even looking at them in my collection anymore and they all got sold. Funny enough is that like 3 or 4 of the 5 failed models I had were Hinderer designs as well lol
I think this is just a sign to stay away from HK until he's willing to compromise on their under performing steel and recorrect their lock face geometry on their frames.
Some... Try most. And new ones also. I love their designs so keep trying but the 0707 failed with the lightest taps ever. 0545 didn't take muct at all either.
HindererDefenders are huffing on Copium rn
I have 3 Hinderers, 2 XM-24's and 1 Fulltrack. ALL 3 of them are in the Battlefield Pick Up configuration. I dont think any of them have ever failed their lockup on me. Id be willing to spinewhack test them on camera and even do a handheld HRC test on all 3 of my pieces just to get the info out there if others are interested.
I'm always interested in any information good or bad, regardless if it supports my argument or not. I think important to have the information
At this point he clearly doesn't care about providing the best product available. He's not only defended it but doubled down and threatened to sue anyone talking about it. It's a shame because it's an excellent design. I take personally at this point, like being spat on
I'd like to see him try and sue someone over this. It'd probably be thrown out as a frivolous lawsuit, or he'd lose.
I'm ok with it if it comes to that, I don't think it will as it would only make him look bad
I don't own one, I've had them before they hurt my fingers to open them. I just never was impressed with the knife. It was more hype than anything. Thanks for sharing great video
Bro, so sorry for your loss. That is absolutely unacceptable. Goes to show that some companies are mass producing just because they will sell. Quality be damned!
Actually crazy
Only 1 of 4 of my RHKs failed, a 3” XM-18. When initially deployed, it has some lock rock, and can fail relatively easily, though as soon as I grip the handle, the lock tightens, and then I can’t get it to fail. No excuses, but at least this tends to be true with frame lock knives. The button lock knives that fail easily make me a lot more nervous about using them. The flipper tab also helps some for safety….again, no excuses. I’m really quite shocked with the results of your collection, but I always appreciate your honesty. I am very curious how Hinderer would address your specific knives. Thanks!
I just tested 2 eklipse, and 2 xm18’s on a 2x4, gave them some good whacks too, as I want to be confident when I use them. None of the 4 failed.
Love your channel. I am not a blind fanboy of Hinderers, or any brand for that matter, but I do love Hinderer knives and I have 7 of them, 3 3inch XMs and 3 3.5 inch XMS and an Eklipse. After watching this video, I went and whack tested mine. None of them failed and I was hitting them pretty hard. Maybe the problem is batch specific or something? However, the HRC is definitely something I wish ALL knife brands would pay attention to! I guess we'll have to start speaking out with our wallets. Maybe if we only buy from brands with optimal heat treat, it would force knife companies into giving customers what they want and SHOULD get at these price points!
Couldn't agree more! Some companies don't take critisism very well, which is their loss. I wish there were more companies like Spyderco who take their customers very serious and have one of the best customer service departments.
I'm scared to check my xm-18 3.5/s45. I spent a lot of money. I'm in shock 6 out 8 failed lock check. Damn. Thanks for making the video and maybe rining m day😢😂😂
Just checked my 2 Eklipse, and my 2 XM18, using a 2x4. None failed. I will not be spine whacking the XM18 auto 😆.
Boo yah velonaaa took whack test like a trooper😊
Jarred they aren’t going for toughness, they are going for lower cost grinding belt costs.
Didn’t you talk to a company and get different price points for different HRC, I’d be interested in what the difference between say 61 and 62 and 63 is.
It wouldn't be that big of a difference, it would definitely cost more but small businesses doit, why can't one of the leading companies doit, when others doit at half the cost
I know Vosteed started running their 14C28N higher. I'm seeing some M390 knives, very few, being released in 60-61. I think things are changing, (edit: so this is probably a good last time commenting on it)
yeah i hope to see a huge turn around most companies are going to want to please there market
That's exactly how my knuckle got cut to the bone on the first run vosteed Raccoon... finger pressure on the spine failed it. The people that say oh a knife doesn't need to be able to take a light spine whack and not fail are crazy. Yes we don't use our knives like that but what if your cutting in to something and the blade get stuck a little and you pull up on the knife to get it unstuck and BINGO lock fail will get the heck cut out of you. It's crazy that people will defend easily failing locks, yes we don't expect a lock to be 100% failsafe BUT we expect the lock to be a lock and keep us safe in common use. Simple as this, hinderer is using "toughness" as a scapegoat for lower grinding costs/time, nothing more nothing less.
Ive had a bunch of lock failures in normal use. Especially zt.
I did drop my Hogue Deka when I was changing scales, about a 2 foot drop right on the tip. It did chip it the smallest bit, I was able to sharpen it away.
I only own knives I can trust fully. Spydercos and CRK, one MBK, one Kizer... When you do precise work on something that isn't on a table, you need a spine on which you can put some pressure. You need to be able to squeeze a knife without unlocking it too (some linerlocks are dangerous that way). It's simple testing of a model before selling it. Custom knife maker often break many blades before deciding which way to go for a particular steel and blade geometry.
You are Pure ChiTown brother, I love your honesty and lack of care about what haters will say!!!!
❤ChiTown❤
Im imagining way back when i was a dumb little kid stabbing into things with the old school single blade victorinox, the "classic" non locking one. That was my personal first day of first aid class on myself so my parents didnt find out lol, very unnecessary
😆 I think we all have a similar memory
Yup! I did the same lol. At 8 I was trying to cut open a tennis ball with a slip joint. I burried all the bloody rags in the trash so my folks wouldn't find out and take the knife away. 😏
So I just tested most of my knives, I had 3 failures. My Spyderco Tenacious in S35VN fails with very light taps to the spine, my Civivi Baby Banter also fails at very light taps, and my Civivi GTC Hypersonic fails with medium taps. This kinda sucks, I'm glad I watched this video, now I know to not use these knives on harder tasks, hell, I don't know if I want to use them at all. I'm really bummed because I liked those knives quite a bit, they might as well be double detent non-locking knives.
Certain knives don't blame toughness so it's more forgivable, but still disappointing. There are ways to help this issue in some cases easily some not so much but should you have to
They're worse than slipjoints; slips actually have features to prevent injury if they fold. 'Locking' knives that fail don't. The blade stop on those knives is bone.
@@Naptosis That's why I said double detent non-locking knives. Most of your double detent slip joints don't have a half stop.
How many of these are original as they came from the factory? How many have aftermarket parts or scales on them? How old are they? Are you willing to send all 8 to Hinderer to let them do their own testing and to fix any problems that may exist?
EXACTLY,,,,,,,👍🏻
I’d trust Rick’s heat treat protocol - he knows what he is doing better than those other schmicks
I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and talk knives ! I know you’re busy but it means a lot! Keep up the great show and content nice escape to look forward to watching NN 💯🙏🏽🔥
I think toughness is a relative term. Not everyone uses knives the same way, or has the same expectations. Many people use and abuse their knives. I had a Leatherman Skeletool blade in 154cm break in half. I was trying to dig an arrowhead out of a tree. Called Leatherman, they said they couldn't replace it with the same serrated version in 154cm. I could get 154 in fine edge or I think 420 in serrated. I take that as an indication that the 154 was brittle, and has a weak spot in the serrations. I went for 154 in fine edge. Got the knife back and I still love it. I love the edge retention of the 154 version. Did I abuse the knife? I don't think so, some would disagree.
i wouldnt take it that way personally i would guess they just didnt make any more with serrations possibly because they were the least purchased, any steel can have a bad heat treatment ive snapped many blades do to that as well. Leatherman is usually known for running them on the softer side which i can understand why
Why do you continue to pay such insane prices for inferior knives?!? I would be FUMING if I paid over 300+ for a knife and it did what you presented....
Kudos to that company pulling stock to fix the problem.
Absolutely!
Hinderer is the only company that I haven’t chipped 20CV with. My Spydercos and my AD20.5 in 20CV will chip if you look at them wrong. Which is annoying AF.
Also i have never had the lock bar accidentally disengage, and I’ve been carrying my Eklipse for over a year. 🤷♂️
That's an interesting experience, that would support my theory of overbuilding to make it extra extra tough. I for example love me some carbon steel on my edc a lot, because it basically doesn't chip and rather deforms than it breaks. Could be that, overbuilding it to make it extra tough.
And maybe they also want to overbuild that framelock, since they usually engage the tang more and more over time, maybe that way the framelock has to wear in first.
@@Leftyotismthat’s a great point about letting it wear in first. If you hard use it for a while over time it will lock up at like 60% or more, instead of like 30%, which is how they come. IDK if it would still slip, maybe maybe not. That’s the trade-off for having a knife that will never wear out. The ones without an insert won’t slip, but if it wears too much the knife will have lock rock and be trash…
@@anthonyberardi8904Also very interesting! Gotta say that my 90 ish % engagement CRKT M16 works flawlessly so far. Jerad also mentioned in a comment that it could also be that the surfaces of the parts where the framelock engages the tang could be too smooth and slip out because of that.
I don't have one of these so I can only assume that maybe they could angle the bits more where they engage. On pictures the tang looks pretty straight and not at all angled, but that could be my eyes and/or the picture quality.
@@Leftyotismyes you make a great point about the angle of the blade tang. I have a ZT 0308, which was one of the first knives released after the whole spine whack thing was a problem with ZT….
instead of the tang being a straight angle it is kind of has a radius and it has always locked up good around 50%. I never tried it, but that’s one of the few I doubt would fail.
Having a LB insert shouldn’t automatically excuse a knife from failing a LIGHT tap like in the video, but I think there is a connection. Titanium on steel seems to be less likely to slip.
Leatherman arc has a very low hrc for Magnacut too. I was disappointed after I’d bought one first.
you know thats a company i would kinda expect, since people are doing real hard use things with the tools, yeah its a blade but a lot of people pick and pry with them and they are not super thick geometry
@@NeevesKnivesThat makes sense to me.
Maybe though, just maybe, Leatherman could make their blades purely for cutting and edge holding, and add a tough-ass prybar thing to fold out to not have the compromise of wanting a tougher blade. But then there is also warranty, lol.
My applause to you my friend you’re just trying to figure it out like you said and trying to be honest. If they clap back it’s only cuz they know they are in the wrong that’s how you know shits facts by how they react keep it up Jared
I guarantee a slipjoint can take a better spinewack than a hinderer framelock 😂
💯 My Spyderco UK Penknife can take a harder whack than those frame 'locks'.
I love their knives too (different steels, and never tried the spine whack) but that grind is tough to deal with exclusively. I was deciding whether to buy my first Half Track I’ve wanted forever, or my first Chris Reeve. I think this made up my mind.
Didn’t you say in another video that the tap test doesn’t mean anything?
I got my first Hinderer a month ago. It's a xm-18 3.5 slicer in s45vn. Until now, I thought it was a pretty cool knife. . .🤔
Did it fail when you spine whacked it? My RHK’s all passed which relieved some of the nervousness of carrying one.
There are some knife channels that just greenlight every single sent knife to them, nothing negative is ever said. We know they are getting free knives and monetary incentives, but the viewers NEED honest information not an infomercial. Thank you for having a legitimate opinion.
Less than 5% of Hinderer knives see actual use that’s why there are so few complaints. The vast majority end up as drawer and Instagram jewellery
Respectfully done 👍
Thank you for this Jerad.. Take note, folding knife production companies.. Bring back quality control before people start to notice you're slacking at a professional level - won't be good for your bottom line. Part of the reason I'm moving away from folding knives these days..
i just beat the crap out of my desk trying to make my 3" xm18 slip and it would not fail. neither would my sebenza. but my hinderer ZT failed immediately.
Hi Jarod good video not sure how some could take it the wrong way.Unless they don't eant yo hear it.
I did the test before on several knives no fails.Iretested
several ZT 0562, Manix 2xl ball lock
CRK lge inkosi old Benchmade Subrosea frame lock several cross bar locks
even couple Walker liner locks
no failure's wacked. them pretty good10 times walkers supprised me did have it paded
When I got my 1st and only Hinderer Xm-18 3.5 it was so dull and will barely flick! 😢 I spent another $200 for the titanium scale and another $100 for the hardware and it still SUCKED! It's my most hated knife in my collection! MC praises the Hinderer but it's a horrible knife from my experience 😤🤬
Great video Jared! Totally unacceptable coming from the USA 🇺🇸
I appreciate this video man, good stuff.
I tried my 3.5 eklipse bowie full ti with klein regrind and shes solid as can be. Hinderer has been 1 of the og's in the knife game.
Great video brother and all well thought out and valid points thank you for posting this it’s much appreciated 👊🏼
A couple years ago when everyone was discussing the lock failure issue with ZT, I had 5 of my 7 ZT's fail (from very similar pressure you used in the video) and I couldn't even stand to look at them anymore so I sold them all eventually. The funny thing is that 4 of the 5 ZT's I had lock issues with were Rick Hinderer collab/designs 😂
Might be time for them to seriously consider an overhaul of their CAD dimension/tolerances on their frame lock sides.
Same experience here although I also had 3 of their in-house designs that would fail very easily also. It's a lock geometry issue that they still can't get right to this day.
Stay tough, not low hrc tough 😂
Lol
Yeah no idea why you’d buy one in 2024 unless you just love how they look 🤷🏻♂️
I'm down to my last hinderer. Halftrack warnie.
Boy after watching this and reading the comments I am hesitant to buy a XM-18 or a CRK Sebenza. I want to stay USA made as most of my collection is but i feel like I’m running out of options…
Spine tests aren't a good test, in my opinion, because when your using the knife your hand is over the lock bar and putting pressure on it so if your using it like its intended your hands pressure on the lock bar will keep it from failing
great video and amazing weight loss lol
Those mavericks seem nice and very light.
I’ve noticed the past couple years, the high end cream of the crop US brands have been sending out a ton of duds or just bad engineering all together. It’s like they are A) resting on their success and don’t feel the need to QC, or B) they rush things out so fast to keep up with the Chinese made knives. Personally, I think it’s a mix of both. Just got burned on a Medford this week, two weeks ago it was a Hinderer doing this, 6 months ago it was a Curtis Custom. I think retailers are starting to hate me for returning so many knives at this point.
Haven’t had a hinderer in a while. Won’t again any time soon. Les George and CRK for me.
Yep after about 4 Hinderer's i realized they were just not for me. Give me a Spyderco over a RHK any day
Spyderco does the best heat treatment in the industry that I've found. I remember Sol the owner saying that one of the reasons they didn't have a bunch of magna immediately is that they wanted to be able to do the heat treat successfully and repeatable on magna cut to a good HRC.
What are peoples thoughts on flipperless hinderers with thumb studs so far back you can't use them so they're hard to deploy because their meant for assisting the lock up, not opening.
i honestly liked the flipperless ones myself, however i fear them failing and not having the flipper in the way, even though that can be a nightmare as well, ive have chunks pulled out from being pinched by knives opening and closing
Hell yeah bro! Great clip. Was a great episode.
Would higher hardness not increase the cost of manufacturing? Grinding belts,furnace time, hours on the clock, everything involved?
Yeah. you're paying a lot for these...
Yes. But they are already charging that premium.
exactly@@Cid_1
Only $5-$10 per knife. That’s what RH’s reputation is worth.. 5 to 10 dollars 😂
My Case Sod Buster Jr. is one of my favorite knives. It locks up like those Hinderers at a mere fraction of the cost. Of course, the Sod Buster is a slip joint...
Easier on the makers tools, the shorter the edge lasts the more the consumer has to sharpen, equals having to buy another one sooner.
Damn! Bars
Yeah. It doesn’t make sense. They are either lazy or trying to save money somehow. Neither is a good excuse.
Next up, Billy Mays!
My opinion for whatever its worth, is that Hinderer has been very successful over the years building up a great reputation, they've had great designs and great quality. People are just going to buy a Hinderer because it is a Hinderer, they can sell their knives for 500+ dollars, fail spine thwacks, run at low HRCs to save on cost because all their knives are still going to be sold out the moment it drops.
I do not know or understand how to make steel and knives but my question is Does it cost more to deliver a higher HRC? Could it be a business decision why Hinderer runs their MC lower?
Not making excuses for hinderer, but the cheaper knives you test besides the very last one are all linerlocks, which I could see not slipping as much due to the scale on the side preventing as much lateral movement during the vibration of the hit. I think lock slip from the spine whack is almost exclusively on framelocks and not linerlocks. That being said, im glad my one hinderer, a gen 5 eclipse was solid, just tested it, it did introduce a tiny bit of stick on the lock though after the test.
Remember guys....vote with your wallet. Making comments on UA-cam, although funny, doesn't do anything to change people's opion. Still make the comments though.....I enjoy them.
Unfortunately my frag Microtech MSI did the same thing so I sold it and will avoid other ramloks. I was tapping the spine as gently as you were and it snapped shut, which is unacceptable since I bought it as a work knife
People say it's unnecessary, but I lost the bending of my pinky as a teen over a failed knife lock.
I completely agree and there is absolutely no benefit in running it soft with geometry like that. ESPECIALLY MAGNACUT!! Because yea the edge stability & retention go down alot. It's definitely not just Hinderer, but Hinderer should be leading the way not lagging behind considering the price & where their made!
I’ve gotta agree if you can’t follow the spec that crucible suggests or that the knife community has suggested, on top of that lock failure of any knife is unacceptable in my opinion as I’d rather not take a blade into my finger or hand if I can help it
I was considering a hinderer. No longer contemplating that anymore.
Chris Reeves used to run their s35 VN software for field sharpening. I believe it was around 57/58 HRC
yep and they were also known for being softer, having a soft steel for sharpening makes no sense if you understand sharpening, the burr is more difficult to remove, and in many cases leads to tare out. so it being harder is actually better for sharpening and it stays sharp longer, it might take 1 or 2 min longer but the results are far better even in the field. im not saying anything bad about crk knives i love them as well and im greatful that Tim has taken over and is making sure the hrc is on point
Set aside the lockup issues (ridiculous @ this price, IMO), is it possible that the heat treat processing or testing equipment on the current in-use generation of equipment can not reliably function at or above 64 Rockwell? Would going higher hardness force investment into new heat treat production and/or testing equipment?
That's why I've recently become interested in fixed blades.
love the energy
I emailed hinderer on two different occasions with a question...never got a response. I will NEVER buy Hinderer again.
Why keep buying them? Especially when 6 out of 8 fail? Not sure if I can get on board w/ Hinderer
Like I said I do love hinderer knives, I actually didn't know about the failure issue until recently. It's a tough board to recommend at this point so I don't blame you
Thank you for saving me Hinderer money. I will stick with my Spyderco, Benchmade, and We knives.
That's crazy. I would really like to know what Hinderers response to this will be. I'll wait until they respond before I decide anything at all. That's only fair. But I'd really like to know why they have so many lock failures.......the lock on a folding knife, that's kind of an important part of the whole piece.
The solution to this problem are small companies that take the hit on profit from making a good knife with proper hrc while keeping it at a good price. Prime example is Kunwu, Sergio is able to make knives with peoper hrc AND sell them at an excellent price. Granted he manufacturers out of china but still. He also doesnt have the economy of scale that these other companies have. If kunwu, spyderco, houge, and tactile can do it then so can hinderer and microtech. These companies are just taking advantage of the paypigs and selling them soft steel as a "feature".