Disoriented Pilot GETS A NUMBER TO CALL at North Las Vegas Airport
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
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METAR KVGT 061553Z 10003KT 10SM CLR 35/06 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP095 T03500056=
Too harsh from ATC on this one, don't you think? What are your opinions?
the duke is on an upwind for 30r, the controller wants him yo make a left crosswind turn for a left downwind? hell I was confused. then the controller changes the turns and downwind. I’d take the number and report the controller as well he caused as much confusion as the pilot
I think they gave the warning just to cover, but really wanted to discuss what went wrong.
Controller mixed up almost as much as the pilot
What was that controller doing….
Controller needs retraining and an ego check
I'm a seasoned UA-cam pilot with lots of these videos under my belt. The controller confused me.
I’m a controller and he confused me 😂 he flip flopped between left and right downwind a couple times
I was confused myself. I’m hearing left and right.
Yeah north Vegas?
Pretty sure he was supposed to go left, he went right, then went so far right that he was instructed to keep going because he crossed over the airport.
Yeah, there was a lot of right, left, right. Once instructions started to get convoluted like that, the ATC should have basically reset and given clear, complete direction, which they did at least in part with "we're changing the downwind." Of course, if I were a pilot and felt instructions were unclear, I would've asked for more clarity--im the one in the sardine can, I can't just guess what instructions are correct if I'm confused.
@@nathanhyland ahh gotcha. I do remember hearing he was too far away headed towards McCarran.
@@UA-camrenderingnotswearingAsa right 😂
Controller made this more confusing than it had to be. Pilot slip up for sure, but still.
Controller is a mess... left turn for left downwind.. then suddently it is right downwind... then.. ships pilot to departure for resequence but no one else is in the pattern.... ugh! Then - gives 55E left downwind.. but no.. right downwind... I'd be flying UPWIND to a different airport!!
Yes, he messed up another aircraft on that recording, too.
Fairly certain that theres 2 different controllers and the voice from the first portion isn't the same as the second part
1:20 and 1:35 totally different instructions from the tower which confused the pilot.
It looks like the pilot was making a right downwind turn by mistake and by the time he acknowledged the tower, it seems like tower said "screw it" and changed it to a left downwind, from the original right downwind. I agree that it's confusing, but the pilot forgot his left from right to start things off.
It looks like the pilot setup for a right downwind and didn't confirm the original call, then the controller says left downwind and switches to right downwind. He should have confirmed and followed the original call but the controller made things very confusing by telling him to switch the traffic pattern right after. Seems the fault is shared with both sides.
No excuse. He got sent back for resequencing and when he came back he was still all over the place with his calls, and damn new over flew the approach. It's a clear cut case of a misalignment of the flight control actuator being behind an aircraft that has about as much power as some small jets. The Beech Duke is a VERY high performance airplane, and this guy was behind it the whole time.
@@ImpendingJoker on par with some slower turboprops, but let's not pretend a Duke is anywhere close to a jet or even most twin-engine turboprops.
ATC wasn’t doing him any favors. Every other transmission was a different instruction.
Unless the instructions changed because it was too late for him to do the previous instructions
What a mess…
It was pretty clear to me.. maybe youre not smart enough to tell the difference between left and right like the pilot? 🤷♂
@@mcgee6177 maybe we don't all have your super sharp mind...🤣
Probably because they gave an instruction, and the pilot did the opposite.
Once the pilot didn't comply, the same command wouldn't apply or be safe, so ATC needed to issue a new one.
That controller had me lost and I’m in my bedroom
Lol
Approach was very clear and helpful. Tower was inconsistent and confusing.
This controller really caused confusion, the pilot was fine, but this happening is quite odd. A major slip up
Seriously, what was that mess of instructions lol
As a pilot with VGT as my base, I can say this controller is usually very very good. Maybe just some confusion, overwork, bad day, etc.
@@kilbornfrkSounded pretty green to me. Assumed perhaps he was in training as a controller…🤷🏼♂️
The pilot was fine except turning right when instructed to turn left , and also not maintaining altitude.
Way.
Sounds like the tower controller was a trainee
The man or woman should not be in comm
What a mess….
Agreed. Diversity
This controller has been there a long time and is usually very good. It sounds like he may have been getting chirped at by another person in the tower as well. Likely just a bad day. I'm sure pilot will be fine.
@@Crosbie85 Racist much?
Tower controller‘s instructions were a confusing mess.
My left or your left?
Our left, sir.
Yes
Yeah right
It's indeed absurd that the pilot mixed up left and right, but this ATC is truly terrible. The instructions are unclear and disorganized.
I think I’d want to avoid bringing the extra scrutiny that comes with the brasher if I were that tower controller. Career sabotage
First off the Duke was on an IFR flight plan and he was supposed to make a straight in approach to 30R. Other training traffic can do 360 and land after the Duke had landed. It makes no sense to sequence a complex twin in a tight pattern traffic with all the slow airplanes. My airport has jets, turbine, and slow trainers. These heavies are always on rnav and we only had to do a couple of 360 to clear. What the controller did was to increase the confusion and added to the danger of a collision between a slow trainer and a fast twin. Plus the pilot in the twin doesn’t have the best visibility outside compare to the small Cessna. The controller needs retraining before he kills somebody
There is no IFR approach onto 30R, long straight-ins conflict with LAS airspace. If you can't fly a basic VFR pattern in a plane, you really shouldn't be in the air with it. No idea why everyone's defending this pilot that doesn't seem to understand left vs. right.
@@bandwevil Because the controller was a mess lol
Duke is a pretty slow Twin unless it’s a turbine conversion. Pretty airplane though!
Pretty sure its is 2 different controllers and maybe she headed that off cause she knew she wouldn't have to then deal with it since the colleague was coming on soon, unless I'm mistaken but the voices at the beginning part as opposed to the ending part are a fair bit different. It isn't as clear on if it might've been on the ground as well unless I'm mistaken on that part but its possible he missed the hold at H call. Unless I'm mistaken.
@@bandwevilTower controller gave the pilot two different set of instructions back to back he caused a major confusion. Needs retraining! ASAP.
6:30 what? He's number 2, hasn't been told which traffic he's following, and no one has landed before him? How did he know he was supposed to turn base yet? Theres like 4 planes here, how is the tower so far behind what everyone is doing?
either stuff got cut out or the tower screwed up again and blamed it on the pilot
I sooo hope the pilot sees the comments and feels vindicated. Sure, he didn't do a perfect job. But his communication and tone (polite and patient) were all in check, and his mishaps could have EASILY been compensated for smoothly if the tower had been on top of things.
It seem like they switch controllers mid way through since the voices are different but maybe I'm mis hearing that.
That pilot should grab a copy of this VASAviation vid and invite the FAA to review it.
He also got cleared to land at 2:34, after being given that incredibly confusing set of turning directions
Gees don’t you think a pilot deviation was alittle harsh?
There's a reason they very specifically say "POSSIBLE pilot deviation".
It means they're going to go back and listen to what happened, hash it out with the pilot, and MAYBE they'll report it. But in a situation as mild as this, I highly doubt it would go anywhere past the phone call.
Sometimes its just a conversation to clear things up. Not necessarily a punitive situation
I think they busted the Bravo to the east. It is pretty tight
If the controller gives you a pilot deviation, they are also submitting a report. FSDO will likely see it and take action if they deem appropriate. ATC is not the sky police, It's up to the investigators to determine any action to move forward with.
@@beneidem369 Yes, but the phone call doesn't equal a deviation.
It's like neither the pilot nor the ATC knows their left from their right.
The freaking tower is confusing. I was watching the animation and I am confused at his instructions
ATC was very bad indeed.
Sounds more like tower was disoriented but alrighty.
Re-watched and both of them were useless.
North Vegas Tower was pretty FUBAR
That tower is definitely a trainee
Except he’s not, and usually very good, if you read comments of several other pilots that are based at that field or use it frequently
@@amb865right I’m based at KVGT and he’s very experienced and calm, people just don’t follow instructions at that field
Controller and pilot here. This one is a little hard to lay blame kn, so ill blame both.
Left downwind for 30R. When youre a controller and looking at a screen, this doesnt seem like a difficult instruction to follow. To a pilot who has to picture this in their head, it seems wrong, unless the pilot has done it before or is familiar with the local area. However, this is a valid instruction that ATC can issue. I think the controller could have used different voice inflections to make the instruction easier for pilots to follow.
Stepping on the pilot. This controller is so guiilty of this. The controller is in charge of the airspace, and hes working hard and fast. Sadly, this happens a lot to controllers. They know but sometimes forget when theh get angry or panicky, but pilots cannot trabsmit and hear at the same time. This situation could have been resolved much quicker if the controller waited for the pilot to unkey before trying to correct him.
I saw someone here mention the controller for being bad for sending the pilot back to approach when the oattern was clear. ATC was right on this one. That pilot was flying IFR and issued a visual approach. That means that while tower can extend downwinds and turn bases, they dont have absolute control of that aircraft. A tower controller sets the landing sequence, but not the arrival sequence. A tower controller cannot, without approval from the approach controller, vector and clear the aircraft for an approach. They especially cannot do this if they are not a RADAR qualified controller. I'm fairly certain VGT is a Class D tower, and therefore has no instrument control of aircraft.
What do you make of the initial positioning of Duke 500 when he calls visual 30R? Do you think approach would have intended for him to fly directly at midfield over the approach end and assume the tower would put him in the pattern? Or was he supposed to be on a straight-in already?
@@bjg09e now I don't work VGT, so I'm doing a lot of assuming here. But I think there might be a letter of agreement on file where approach sends them over the airport at 4000' or so, then it's towers discretion whether they enter left or right downwind.
I say this because this Duke is direct the center of the airport at 4000' going 200 knots (seems very fast to me, but I never flew a Duke). There's no way that was intended to be a straight in. I also know that Harry Reed is very close by, and with the Bravo, VGT probably has a very limited shelf to maneuver aircraft.
Neither of these controllers know their lefts from rights... Dangerous. Reason for the extended downwind on the last approach was most likely due to the aircraft needing time to descend. Controller never told him when to turn base when clearing them to land. Awful job controlling here. Shouldn't be the pilot's fault at all.
Controllers don’t need to call your base before clearing you to land
@@waholoopesorry74The controller was super confusing. But agreed that once you are cleared to land, you maneuver the aircraft as necessary to land from your current position. If ATC needs you to do something otherwise, they’ll let you know. Definitely no obligation for a pilot to wait for ATC to call base unless instructed as such.
The tower was a hot mess 💅 and they them should probably be the one making a phone call... lol
That controller is a mess lol
This ATC was messing up more than the pilot. Sure, the pilot was confused about what way to turn, but the ATC was so indecisive about what way to turn. He also gave an incorrect sequence at the end, 55E was following traffic on right base, not left base. I really hope the guy didn’t get a deviation
good that its recorded, everyone will hear that ATC was the confused one...
I have a number for you to copy.
Pilot thinking: Yes, & I have a finger for you to copy.
Disoriented controller*
I have to defend the pilot here. ATC confused me, sitting on my deck. I understood “left” turn for downwind, then “right turn downwind”, then LEFT turn for downwind” for 30R. THEN, he said both to another aircraft. Not a good controller.
That controller needs to familiarize himself with the term "upspeak/uptalk" and quit doing it at the end of every word... he probably thinks it sounds pleasant and cheerful but, it also sounds like he doesn't know wtf he's talking about.
Exactly what I was saying to myself listening to this. It's nearly impossible for me to take anyone seriously when they constantly use that "up speak" bullshit while making statements. It's a completely asinine fad that should have ended ten years ago. Same with the use of "SO" to begin a sentence. Idiots!
This was a mess, complicated unnecessarily by the first Controller. The guy was clearly lost, Controller made it worse. ATC is usually on game, but this dude was def problematic. Pilot was a mess, likely overwhelmed with an airplane that is too much for him. Scary.
pilot got behind the aircraft. The few times tower confused left and right messed him up even further. Tower got behind the traffic and by the end had right and left totally screwed up.
pretty sure ATC isnt the right job when you tend to mix up left and right...
N60500, please turn spinward for the updownwind approach. Spinward, I said spinward. What are you doing? OK, now anti-clockwise. Nevermind, just hold up your hands and see which one makes an "L" or something.
We must go forward, not backward. Upward, not downward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!
@@Middcore 🤣
The guy is trying to fly an aeroplane without dying and ATC changes the direction of the pattern (which changes the side of the runway you approach from) without telling anyone! Pilot is also having trouble making visual contact with the airport, which is only going to increase the pressure. In the Swiss cheese model, this ATC bought the cheese, served it up, and then changed which room it's being served in without telling us
Controller kept giving pilot conflicting instructions.
To be fair, becoming disoriented is quite easy, especially at airports with multiple runways, and then you hear an instruction, make a left turn for right downwind runway three zero right, no, make it a right turn for left downwind three zero right.
This was like an old Abbot and Costello bit.
A Duke driver needs to be more on it, but the controller went down the tubes once the Duke starting going the wrong way. Approach really did them no favors setting up a big, fast airplane like a Duke in that way.
"A big fast airplane like a Duke" ?? LOL. I'm not sure you know what a Duke is, never mind actually flown one. It's not an Aerostar.
@@wagmiorngmi Nothing is an Aerostar. A Duke is still a big, fast, demanding airplane.
If anyone was confused it seemed like the first ATC was. ATCs apparently very quick to hand out phone numbers meanwhile almost causing deadly mass crashes on the regular...
Main ATCs mistake - cleared to land for traffic, that lost situational awareness before, and didn’t have airport in sight.
Armchair aviator here... tower ATC was really hard to follow, in my opinion. Weird cadence and tone. But... N60500 seemed pretty distracted.
Possible tower deviation...
In more ways than one
Not only was tower confusing, his voice sounded like he was quite unsure with everything he said lol
He was just trying to sound fabulous.
Situational Confusion (pilot) + situational confusion (ATC) = hot mess
Approach was solid… who is in that tower and why are they working..
Left 360 in a left downwind is a wild move
Tower’s number one job is to help, not be the police.
3:14 bro's giving up on him
I had to listen again. The controller when the aircraft was on the upwind, told them to plan for a LEFT downwind runway 30R. The aircraft then started to turn RIGHT. Since the aircraft was so far to the RIGHT, the controller then changed them to a RIGHT downwind for runway 30R. The transmission was then blocked and we're then hearing the controller end with "LEFT downwind 30R". Not sure who the controller was addressing, since the transmission was blocked.
The controller comes over the radio and tells the aircraft a suggested heading and that they are CHANGING them to a RIGHT downwind 30R.
The confusing part is being told "number 2"" for landing but not getting a traffic report or told when to turn base.
That first ATC sounded more like he was doing a tiktok than talking to planes in the air.
I wont say anything more but damn...
When a controller mixes up LEFT and RIGHT, there should be a number for the CONTROLLER to call!
The controller mixed up enough that I think a deviation is bullshit. Guy was responsive but confused and there were no crazy pilot created safety conflicts. I’ve been in unfamiliar territory and, particularly given they weren’t even offering approaches, I can see issues happening, and this was akin to missing your interstate exit ramp or something.
His downwind was so long he busted the bravo. That’s the deviation
What does busted bravo mean
@@Grubbbee the bravo airspace is only for commercial aircraft. smaller aircraft are only allowed to fly into these airspaces either with permission or directly instructed to do so. If you bust into it, you potentially risk traffic obstruction with bigger aircrafts, that's why those airspaces are no-fly zones for smaller aircraft.
@@karlelias Yikes! Bravo requires communication and clearance. It has NOTHING to do with the size of the aircraft. They are certainly not "no fly zones" for "smaller" or "non-commercial" aircraft.
@@boulderup9c oof, didn't know that. i am very sorry. thanks for sharing, really should keep my mouth shut if i don't know anything lol.
ATC said Left downwind and Right downwind pick one not both!!!
Cleared to land #2.... where was the plane in front of him?
I wouldn't have turned base without knowing where the traffic I'm following is either
Pilot error to start the chainreaction, however that left turn to left downwind mistake by the controller was just as bad. Then assuming the pilot is telepathic until he instructed that they were changing the downwind
For everyone saying he got a Brasher and number to call for not following directions I think is missing that he likely busted the bravo airspace and that was why he got the number
You can't bust the bravo if you're on an IFR clearance that already took you through it.
@@minutiesabotage sure you can. His clearance took him into the delta and he was no longer cleared in bravo airspace once he was handed to tower and entered the delta
tbh I’d like to hear the comms before tower handoff the first time. guy was on about a 300 heading, was he expecting straight in? right down wind? the turn left to enter a left downwind for a runway that is to your right and on the right side of another runway is awkward to say the least. “turn left crosswind” or “turn left heading 210 vectors for downwind” would have probably been more clear
so yeah after a 5th watch he was cleared for a left turn into a left downwind with the runway behind him and to the right. controller called for a 180 course reversal. he should have given an unable and continued into the right downwind which makes a hell of a lot more sense
Hopefully the controller got a "controller deviation." It's pretty important to know your left from your right in this situation. The guy was either very tired or high.
Non pilot here, but follower of the channel.... Duke 500 went right when instructed left , ok.. had the controller, said something like, ok that's not what I asked you to do but continue right downwind, and we'll sort it out. It would have given the pilot a few seconds to realise their mistake and the ATC the chance to evaluate what else was in the immediate area around an aircraft that the ATC hadn't planned on being where it was.
Yes that's armchair quarterbacking, but the ATC panic of having Duke turn left downwind when it was so far into the right turn made matters worse and ore confusing , especially when he did realise that actually continuing the right downwind was the best option. Can't comment on the handing off for re sequencing,
But later on the ATC didn't help by calling clearances and where in the sequence without identifying who and where the aircraft in front was.... calling that you are number 2 but not to what number 1 is and where it is for the pilot to eyeball. For me that contributed to Duke running long before making final turn, as he hadn't been told what aircraft to start his turn in behind.
Pilot did deviate from tower's instructions, turning right crosswind instead of left crosswind. Tower reminds him to turn left, but then quickly changes it to right downwind, and the pilot became completely disoriented. But I think eventually tower did the right thing sending him back to approach for resequencing because it gave them both time to relax. Hopefully, he wasn't too hard on him on the phone.
Worst ATC I have ever heard.....needs retraining.
He said please repeat over the radio. Must not be military.
I looked up his inbound flight.. he flew in IFR. I mentioned this to my wife after showing her the video and she asked if he was still wearing his foggles and couldn’t see the airport? Lol
Controller wanted him to do a left 180 but only said “left turn” …It’s confusing, especially in a busy environment when radio calls are stepped on. But the pilot should have asked/clarified if he’s confused… and he was.
I'm not even a pilot, but tower's instructions were clear to me.
The initial comms were for a left turn to a left downwind for 30R. This was acknowledged and was going fine until 500 turned right instead of left. My guess is there was a bit of expectation bias to make right traffic for the right runway, as is practice at many airports with parallel runways. But it’s not an excuse; do what ATC says.
After that ATC started to change things as well, maybe it was a slip-up or maybe it was intentional, but they didn’t really clarify for a bit, then definitely started slipping up again later as things got pear-shaped.
So the pilot made the first error and ATC didn’t really help things with unclear instructions. It compounded from there.
What a mess. That tower controller was very confusing.
This is terrible work by ATC- they got the guy turning all over the place with 3 other airplanes in the pattern. I mean just extend the guy on a right downwind and call his base and this entire situation is nothing. Shameful job to give him a number to call. ATC needs to do better.
Kinda sounds confusing did he change it to to right downwind because he completely blew through it?
through?
I was wondering the same thing. Did he miss the turn for left downwind so ATC changed it to a right downwind rather than trying to bring him back around? Very confusing.
A lot of this is on the controller and the blocked transmissions. Looks like the duke made a bit of a mistake, but the controller compounded it.
Tried to follow ATC’s instructions myself, now I’m stuck in the dryer. Send help.
It seems to me that when a phone number has to be issued for a "possible pilot deviation" it ought to be done on a "less" busy frequency. So many times it would be easier (if the choice is between the local controller and the ground controller) to let the ground controller issue the phone number when the aircraft is not moving after it clears the runway.
What the hell is happening at that airport... I understand it's a busy delta, but I trained out of a similarly busy delta, also next to a huge bravo, and it's never like this.
The switch in directions was MOSTLY because the pilot failed to react to the original instructions. Even at the end he was setting up for a very long final until the controller ordered him to turn in. I wonder if he was transitioning into the Duke because he sounded far behind it the whole time, as well as not being too comfortable at a busy tower-controlled airport. Being turned to a downwind is TOUGH when you haven't got the airport in sight yet - maybe he could have told ATC early on?
I trained at KVGT for all my certs and this controller is usually on his A game. It can be very difficult to navigate here especially if you’re unfamiliar with the area
I live directly under the approach to 12R/30L about 1/2 mile north of this airport. This airport gets it all. Cessna 172's, twins, biplanes, small private jets, (relatively) small freight jets, etc. Once during an airshow in Jean, NV we were in the pool and watched a B25 on approach! Beautiful airplane! We could count the rivets in the fuselage. We've also seen WWII war birds during airshows. I thought this controller was very confusing with this particular aircraft. At least one commenter said he was a good controller so perhaps he was having an off day. Sadly, his profession does not allow for bad days, though we all have them.
With that title I was ready for a bad pilot, not a confusing (and probably also confused) controller! That was a mess...
This isn’t confusing people. Watch where that plane (N60500) is at. Tower wanted him to do a left 180 to rejoin the downwind. He basically was doing a straight in approach for the 30s when he first called up. Since the extras were landing he needed to space him out. If he would have listened to tower the first time there would have been zero issues. This isn’t confusing at all. The only thing tower didn’t do was say “amend your instructions” just keep the right turn going because that is what he decided to do anyway if you watch his ground track. So tower was just doing what made sense for the time. He crossed over the departure end of the runway when he wasn’t supposed to. If tower had him do the left turn like he was supposed to do initially he would cross it again, so tower made an on the fly decision and just had him keep going to the east for a right downwind instead of left downwind. Pilot didn’t know what runway was 30R or was confused about the initial left turn for left downwind. All pilots fault IMO.
I hope the pilot argues this possible pilot deviation, that original tower controller was confusing AF!!!
I’m not a pilot, but do understand the instructions provided in most instances. Those provided by NLV ATC even confused me.
60500 pilot lost his situational awareness and Tower did NOT help by changing their instructions mid-turn. They should have either prefaced that they were changing the downwind, THEN given a heading to comply with the new downwind, or let him complete his sequence THEN changed the downwind. Both were complicit, but Tower could have been much more helpful than he was.
I fly out of a similarly configured airport and it can be confusing when told to make traffic in a direction different from the runway's position (left traffic for a right runway). Lots more happening in a twin, too, and a lot of traffic. The controller could have made things easier/clearer by calling their base turn and ensuring the correct airport was in sight. Also, just because it was a clear day doesn't make it easier. Sun could have caused issues.
Could Twr have said “make a left 180 for left downwind to 30r?” 180 addition might have helped?
This is a parallel ga airport. Which is to say, the most busy, and therefore the most susceptible to mid air collisions on the base to final. Pilots should have game or land elsewhere. Tower needs to hand out yellow slips liberally at these airports, its crucial. 1. Know how to enter a pattern at a 45. 2. Know local landmarks or request vectors immediately if unfamiliar. Don't fake it till you make it at parallel runways. Local controllers are under pressure to improve separation. They don't want to be blamed for your screw up, so they will yellow card. Sight the runway with approach. Tower doesn't have time to babysit your lost ass.
Also he told 55e follow Cessna on LEFT base, but he's right base in the graphic. So both local controllers are suspect.
I don't think this is the controller's fault. The pilot was initially told to do a left turn for a left downwind because he was south of the airport, but he started turning right. Eventually, he was far enough to the north side of the airport that the controller just wanted him on a right downwind. When you take his position into account, the change in direction makes sense. If he had just done the left turn all would have been well.
I think this is 25% pilot fault and 75% ATC. ATC told pilot he was going to call the base turn, pilot turned wrong direction. then ATC said turn left, calling base turn, asked for copy, but then ATC stepped on the response, changing it to right traffic, then stepped on the response again and changed it back to left? Pilot finally got on the right downwind. Missed his base turn because I think he was expecting ATC to call his base turn. Such a mess.
No way is it mostly ATCs fault that when told to turn left 180 degrees, the pilot made a slight right turn. ATC could've been better, sure, but I think they were thrown off by a pilot that's struggling to understand basic instructions.
VGT controllers need some work. Have always been subpar for years
Very harsh from ATC. Controller couldn't make up his mind, left or right.
I had a pilot deviation call 2 years ago at north vegas. I was flying left seat in a Falcon 900,EX, descending out of 12,000 as instructed for 5000. Airspeed was spot on at 180. It was an IFR to VFR landing, clear day and lots of small airplane traffic. Out TCAS was lit up like the 4th of July. As I was handed over to the tower, they instructed for us to 30L, right downwind and maintain 4500 for an extended. Literally 2 miles past the airport, we were given the call for an expedited turn to base and short final. I replied unable. We were configured, but in my judgement to close to final path . I continued my extended downwind, zero traffic ahead of us. TCAS was clear. Upon a series of 360s, five miles out we got the clearance for final. Upon a normal, safe landing without throwing our px around or fighter jet bank angles, we landed. I got the call tower number.
After a long discussion, thankfully it was acknowledged that there was no deviation and in addition the unable call was appropriate.
Fly safe, you are the pilot in command. The moment you are uncomfortable with tower commands, make a command decision followed by the simple word unable.
N2355E mentioned!! Did so much of my ppl in that plane. Vegas is a great place to learn, get exposed to lots of different scenarios working under the bravo
You never know when an airplane you've flown will appear on VASAviation
Controller certainly sounds young, and inexperienced. Just doesn’t sound very clear, firm or confident in their own instructions.
Aye. Aside from the contradicting instructions, too many of his instructions (to all of the traffic) sounded like questions.
Why was he told to caopy a number lol,tower should have called his base anyway.
No situational awareness, couldn’t see an airport at 4 miles, no idea what clearance means, shouldn’t be flying solo!
Faults on everyone. Seemed like everyone was confused except for LV Approach.
I was fortunate enough to not be flying and able to stop, rewind and replay to try and understand what was going on here. ATC takes equal blame.
That controller at NLV is normally awesome, the instructions were confusing especially for a pilot that sounds they aren't familiar with the airport. Sounds like the controller and wasn't on their "A" during that call. Can't say enough things positive about that controller, they definitely helped me out more times then I can remember
Is that not 2 different controllers?Just the voice for the beginning and the end seem a fair bit different but maybe I'm confused or mistaken
Atleast 2 different controllers, the controller you hear first is the one I'm referring to, that is typically awesome, the second controller I haven't heard before on c/d. Might have been Nellis, I don't know.
If the tower was confused then of course the pilot will be confused
Try flying a plane into a busy airport when the controller is giving you conflicting instructions. Not easy.