Corvette Barely Runs case study (Staten Island Ep. 8.5)
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- Опубліковано 19 кві 2017
- This 1998 Corvette hot rod has been neglected for a long time. Now the owner wants to re-animate it. After a PCM replacement it runs, but not very well at all.
Let's see if we can figure out how to restore this American Muscle to its former glory :)
Enjoy!
Ivan - Авто та транспорт
GM - "This computer might get hot if it's up high in the engine bay. Let's put it behind the wheel, so when it rains, the water will cool it off."
Dylan Lewis I don't think any car is designed to be submerged in salt water for an extended period of time.
Not made for Nova Scotia!
Get that great GM feeling.....................
Behind the glove box is the best place for a computer.
Dylan Lewis, or how about putting the main computer in front of the drivers front wheel. (Less water?) 2008-2019 dodge caravans. No manufacturer learns their lesson!
Great job, Ivan.
Imagine paying all that money for that car and then finding down the line that your computer is all cruddy by virtue of the fact it was installed next to a wheel!! What a joke.
The moral of this diagnosis is when costumer tells you that they replaced the computer, first thing check their work. As always Ivan solid diagnosis!!!!!! Your the Man!!!!
Zenmaister11 S You're* the man.
Solid Work Ivan! The moment I saw the misaligned connectors in the video, I channeled Eric O. "There's your Problem, Lady!" Looking forward to more brainstormers!
That is pretty wild that this computer was replaced and this connector problem was not noticed. Definitely stresses the importance of attention to detail. Thanks for the vid Ivan, awesome as always!
Thanks, Joe! I'm sure the problem was noticed, but I think the shop just wanted the car running and put it up for sale without investing too much money into it...feel sorry for the next owner. But at least it looks good parked LOL
Working on modern Corvettes is not for a beginner to the Corvette world. But when they are running correctly, they are wonderful performance cars.
That is one important connection in such terrible shape. You are one heck of a trouble shooting expert! You are a vehicle owners lucky charm if their vehicle comes to you!
Your videos are an excellent guide to how to track down the source of the problem.
Don't spray 'em with WD-40, spray 'em with DeoxIT D5. ;)
Really great direction on this one Ivan. Once you got to the computer it was pretty obvious GM could have put that in a better place. But it is an older car in a rust burden State so I guess some corrosion is expected. Maybe a better connector from a salvage yard is in order from the repair shop? I enjoyed this one very much, thanks for taking the time to film the process.
Many years ago, any EFI electrical connector that was even close to a splash area was PACKED with dielectric grease ! Techs did not like it because it all over their hands and made disassembly of connectors difficult. The practice was eliminated as a "cost savings" and because some one believed the salesman the the connectors were "waterproof" ! HA THAT'S A JOKE !!
I'm glad you enjoyed this one Wyatt! Next one will be a real brain teaser :)
motoYam82 You might as well get perpared to go through every electrical connection under the hood,, and what about the brakes
I'll bet they are worthless !!!
Next time you want to clean the green garbage from a connector use a solution of white vinegar and salt. Dip the connector in the solution and move it around. Use a toothbrush to loosen the corrosion from the connector. Repeat if necessary. Finally, make another solution with water and baking soda to neutralize the vinegar and use a heat gun or hair dryer to remove any moisture from the connector.
Thank you. I will be doing this in the future
Maybe spray a thin coat of WD40 to preserve it as well.
Tuning in, one of my favorite times of the week!
Love your videos. Get stuck watching for hours 👍🏼
watched a few of your videos last night really enjoyed them, subbed
Welcome!
Thanks for the tip about "Failed this ignition" I never knew that
That vette was absolutely a submarine at one point.
Sandy victim ?
It didn't help when the ape who replaced the computer left the plastic protectors off of the connector.
didn't know that you were THAT good. I started watching some of your videos and was sceptical at first, but to my surprise, to shine bright like a diamond. I love your analytical skills. Very logical and through. Great video.
Great video. Pity that someone would let a Corvette go like that.
Happens to everything man made
Even if you try your best, mother nature will have her way and it dies being preserved just like being driven over time.
Lose lose situation 😮
Crazy video indeed
Ivan, Great video. I have an "01 C5 and since these C5 have many electrical gremlins I bought a product called Nanoprotech to spray on the wiring...I also took the PCM a few weeks ago and pulled it apart and luckily my pins looked like new....these PCM's are prone to having battery acid drip on them so that's the first place I'd look if you have some weird issues...at the Airlines we use Deoxit as a contact cleaner...works great !!
Dude.. you’re a wizard! Love your videos!
The green crusties keep the cash rolling in 🤑. Great work Ivan!
Hey Rob! Yup the green crusties are job security for sure!
loved it! keep em coming
Really liked that minty brake rotor!
There's a lot or rust on the brake rotor, too! 😂 great job Ivan!!
great work really enjoyed that,thanks
Very well done, Ivan.
GM continuously builds high priced, high performance w/ the mentality of kindergartening engineering.
Greeeeaaaat engineering there, GM - lets mount a computer in a friggin wheel well!
Thank God it wasn't the cam sensor!
Instructions for removing the cam sensor:
Step1: Remove engine ...
SMH ... last good Corvette was built in '72. ;)
chrysler did that with the battery in the sebring
chrysler is doing it too, the same moron must move around alot.
Good job!!...I learned much!...as usual!!👍👍😎
Awesome job Ivan..you da man.
"Who da" man! You da' man, you da' man...!" Yup, you da' man Ivan. Thanks!
That was priceless xD
i'm amazed watching you thank you
Keith would be saying, “well done grasshopper”.
You inherited a mess. Nice diagnosis but they definitely need to fix the PCM connectors b/c that corrosion is not going away. Deoxit and Stabilant 22 will definitely help but I'd be ordering both connectors and the bad terminals would be replaced and the others Deoxit and Stabilant 22 and when finshed it'd get dielectric to help as corrosion prevention. The insulators are probably still in the old computer. Great job diagnosing it and if they replace the connectors like you suggested the Vette's reliability should be back.
Complete engine harness would be the best option if you ask me,it is not an Honda Civic, that car worth fixing it properly
No need if it's only the PCM plugs that have corrosion. Change out the plugs is best & most cost effective b/c changing out the harness is labor intensive. Harnesses don't go bad unless it's a material deficiency with the wire strands or a crimping issue with multiple plugs or it has multiple plugs throughout the harness with corrosion from salt water intrusion . Too many harnesses get changed for no reason.
I'll take a 5-speed beater Civic over an Automatic Corvette any day of the week lol
I wouldn't.
hahah no me! i would rather get the gonorhea over a Honda!
Good Diagnosis Ivan, dammed that squueeling is loud. that v8 sounds sweet now and purring :)
Another good one Ivan.
Yall keep rockin it, you help ALOT of people.. lots of hacks out there, and the stealer dealers.
flood car ??? good vid still watching. thankx john
Great job finding the issues Ivan
cheers from 🇨🇦
Luke
Thanks, Luke! I love the thrill of the chase :)
Yeash. Without a new engine harness that thing is going to be a repeat customer for sure.
I have seen the connected parts missing before. They were in the old computer!!! Always carry some good contact cleaner!!! Worth makes a really good one.
Under guard location is great for mounting wiper washer bottles..end of story. If the previous molester/repairer had used Stabilant 22 or similar contact grease and reassembled correctly with pin guide and new seal??. I sense this one is a comeback hiding around the corner. Hope the shop owner has explained this to the customer! You did a great job under difficult circumstances Ivan.
It's all about satisfaction. GOOD job.
I love that this car has the same radio as my 98 lumina.
wx4newengland a vete should never have the same radio as a lumina omg 😲
Such a very talented young Man, from the UK
That car is going to be a problem until those connectors and pins (maybe a harness) are replaced . This is the problem with modern cars and I doubt many of these cars are running as classics in the future
also want to add who puts a computer behind a wheel? REALLY GM???
They won't be classic collectors because software needed to diagnose them will no longer be available, and/or many of the electronics will be impossible to get.
you have major skills my friend.
You're the man!
Classic! You have to love that A S E sign hanging proudly on the shop. Can't tell you how many shops I go to and see the same sign. THERE SHOULD BE LICENSING FOR AUTOMOTIVE TECHS! Not taking nothing from you Ivan. I can see your doing homework. (Except were you bought the pico) LOL
I hope your making bank at these places. I'm sure the shop owner has thrown the parts store at it and charged the customer handsomely... you know ye old saying "it needed it first before they could go any further".
Nice work Ivan:)
Hey Ivan, I'll bet that car took a salt water bath in Super Storm Sandy! You'll be chasing electric problems for the rest of its life. Find out if it lived " below Hylan Blvd."
You beat me to that comment! I'm on the south shore of Long Island and I saw lots of that after the storm.
John C, I was thinking the same thing.
honestly that was the first thing i thought as well! i know corvettes can be as problematic as old beemers once they get cranky, but these types of electrical issues scream flood water damage..
I would be willing to bet that's flood damage. Pull up the trim by the door jam and see if you have sand under it.
The horror. The horror.
Great videos!! You're pretty damn sharp!!!
Good job man!
The crusty crusties strikes again!.. 😨
That probably would have never happened if that plug wasn't mangled.
it's common on all the C5, battery acid strikes again ;) best solution, only use AGM, gel cell or similar battery :)
Great diagnostics
great job Ivan GM picked a super terrific location for the ECM I've used penatrant before it has a somewhat attenuated catalyst given a little time works wonders on the " green crusties " how many miles are on the Corvette if you remember thanks
Good Job!
You are the best man of all time 🏁🚗 👍 😉 you now your cars
As the other guy said: You the man!!!!
If the connector cover is missing, it's likely because the box isn't the right model for this car. GM did various connector tab spacings so you could not plug the wrong module in. Eric O. ran into this exact same problem.
Nice !
Holden fitted the PCM under the bonnet in my Commodore which is a a smarter place to fit it, it runs the same engine albeit is a 2002 engine which runs the same camshaft as the 1998 Camaro LS1 engine & a returnless fuel system.
I've driven the car when I accidentally left the camshaft position sensor unplugged when I replaced a knock sensor in 2009,it didn't make a difference in performance but a check engine symbol was switched on as it's in LCD form in the Commodore.
I made my own PCV hose system up for it in 2011 as the old y shaped rubber pieces & PCV hose just fell apart.
The air conditioning belt squeaks a bit in the mornings,if it gets too bad I just spray some belt grip spray onto it but lately it just goes away when I drive it !
If you're going to spray connections like that, use DeOxit. It'll help a decent bit with the corrosion.
Great find Ivan on the corrosion on the pins. I was glad for you that the cam sensor was okay. Damn, I wouldn't want to try and change that thing. It's probably going to have some more issues with those pins though down the road :) Have a good one!
Hey Terry glad you stopped by! Yeah I should have just started at the computer... But then would have missed that torn PCV elbow haha
I was actually a bit nervous fitting that connector back together and bending the pins on the new PCM. You saw the first try fixed one problem but caused like five other codes to pop up...yikes!
Yeah, I would have got a little nervous too when I saw more codes. I would have thought that I screwed something up like bent pins, etc. :) You know Ivan since corrosion seems to be a really big issue especially where you're at, I was talking to our chemist today about what really works on breaking down the copper oxide. He made a few suggestions which is probably common knowledge, but a few controlled experiments with several connectors that are corroded would probably make for an interesting experiment. The experiment would be using different chemicals and different time intervals and comparing the results as time passed. Some suggestions of chemicals would be white vinegar, white vinegar that's been boiled, lemon juice, muriatic acid and the battery acid removal in the spray cans. After the cleaning operation, the acid can be diluted with a baking soda and water solution. After the neutralization, a follow up with DeOxit 100 for a final cleaning operation. What do you think???
Chemistry was never my favorite science subject, so I hope someone has already done that experiment and wrote down the results :)
good video! like all the others! !!
That guy is telling the truth you are the MAN!!!
great video learning alot where did you go to school or did you pick it up in the field
Hey Ivan !!...I have an '01 C5 Corvette and since I recently purchased a 2 channel Picoscope (thanks to you ,Matt, Paul Danner and Eric O) I'm trying to get some hours on using it...when I saw you trying to get crank/cam it's a lot easier getting the signal from the PCM...I'm working on that next !!....did primary ignition current ramp last night using the ground wire that's for each bank I noticed the waveforms were not all evenly spaced out...is that a concern ??...P.S. I had my PCM apart a few months ago to see if I had any corrosion but thankfully it was "pristine"...C5 PCM's are notorious for corrosion since its sit above the battery and can get battery acid dripped on it !!
Time and the Crusties do a lot of damage. Didn't take long to get to the source of the problem. Dielectric grease is fine for prevention but there must be a better alternative that's not so messy. Hope the price of gas stays low for the new owner. Real world video !!
Definitely real-world haha
GM genius who put the PCM behind the wheel.
yes you are the man
awesome
Awesome
The intake can be removed on these cars in about 30 minutes. This car has a bad oil pressure switch (gauge pegged and oil leak). Also it probably needs a ECBM. Unfortunately they are used only and on this year, very pricey. Thanks GM for mounting the leaking batteries over top of the computer.
Was that car in the ocean for that corrosion, or is it from the salted roads in winter?
Bro you and Keith videos are killing it . Went on identifix to find out how to get to the cam sensor the factory manual said Remove the intake manifold . I see now a borescope looks like a must…, great video bro !!!
Thanks! Yeah I was starting to get pissed off when that PCV line crumbled to bits and I still couldn't stick my skinny arm back there for the classic Eric O. reach around move LOL
Thanks for the reply , would love to see more can diagnostic videos and thanks to you and keith again .
Your quick on that find at the pcm , I know the vid is not done yet but Im pretty sure your on to something there. Same thing happened to my 97 civic si thing just wouldn't run on all cylinders . I threw so many parts at that pos before I realized my pcm connector had gotten wet and corroded like crazy
From all the forrest debris in the engine compartment I would trace the harness looking for mice chew marks
The pcv line has been bad a long time and all the corrosion screams "I want a Corvette to look cool but I don't want to maintain it". I know a guy with a ninety something Ferrari, leaks fluids, exhaust leaks, multiple electrical issues but has it detailed regularly so he looks cool!
That road salt will murder the
Detroit steel in a jiffy!
You can watch this in real time. I think grass grows slower than the rust.
good job
In all of my life experiences, if there is a problem, somewhere there is a lady!
good one! Sometimes it's not easy to come up with a solution to all the lady's problems...
Good eye man. Damn, owning a vehicle in the N/E must be a PITA with all that road salt. What year(s) did the Vett have the liftback front cap? I saw one in a dealership years ago where the who front cap would open backwards giving you access to most anything. that was cool. Do all vett owners bring the car in with so little gas in the tank? I thought you were going to run dry before you could get all the tests completed.
Cheers from saltless Louisiana.
In my world of heavy trucks, all that wire piercing just wouldn't fly. Resealed or not, they'd be green and open within a week.
Yep rust belt green crusties, Eric O confirms
How did this repair turn out?
Because of pushed in module pins you will need to replace the module. The harness connectors (pins) have to be cleaned with Deoxit (D5, D100 and G100) and the blue secondary locks reinstalled. If the replacement module is a used module the module pins will need to be inspected (no pins pushed in or bent) and cleaned. To keep water out after operation okay, you could seal the connector wire exits with GROTE Ultra Seal Connector sealing grease.
I have a 2004 Corvette and they kept the computer in the same place. I wonder what I can do to prevent any problems. I have read that they are prone to problems with corrosion.
Any ideas?
Classic case of the green crusties. I was thinking about getting one of these C5's, since they are dropping in value, but this video is making me second guess it. Terrible spot for computer location. GM designs are so weird.
Better get all those codes taken care off because I wouldn’t trust those gindaloons with anything. Better even fix that belt squeak for them too.
Is there anything we can spray on the green crusties to get rid of it. ?
Nice buddy and by the looks of the missing covers on the ECM harness did it play a role in the corrosion of the pins ?
Hey Steve, I believe the connectors were so corroded to the old PCM, that they got damaged when removing the original unit. Carnage!
The garage it was stored in must have flooded.
Think it's easy?
That's because your shoes are off.
Try it in the Rain some time, really cold hands, numb fingers and wet feet, it adds so much.
You think that cam sensor is hard to get to, try it on my 4th gen Camaro with the same engine, the freaking cowl comes out to about the middle of the valve covers! It'd be easiest to either take off intake or drop engine/transmission! Well maybe not...
Another great video Ivan!
Yes ..looks as though I have to replace the crank sensor on my 2004 Kia Optima ... basically have to do a timing belt change to get to the 33 dollar part :( and god know how much labor.. being I have never done one
Im thinkin of replacing cam and crank sensors as a prevent maint. Its not so bad on the trucks. If you can get a small wratchet back there with a 10 mm socket, it comes out pretty easy. On these cars you may have to drop the trans mount and get it from underneath. Seen a vid with a tech pulling the intake just to get at it. What a friggin pain.
ashoppa intake manifold takes about 20 minutes (maybe less) if you've done it before. I am not saying it's great but every car has it's tough stuff to work on. Also when they went to the Gen4 block (LS2 and later) they moved the cam sensor up front.
Great job to bad it they leave a car like that set to the point of ruin. There meant to be driven (like you stole it) between yourself Eric O , ETCG1 and some other I subscribe to I really appreciate your not yelling nice calm you know who I mean. Again A+
"too bad", "They're meant", "you're not yelling." MAGA.
For some reason when you said pushrod engine, it made me laugh
Someone should find the engineer who put that computer next to the road salt, and slap the bejesus out of him.
it's battery acid issue, well known/documented issue on the C5's
Agreed, the broken vacuum hoses another sign of the battery acid leak, all well known for the C5.
Nice arthroscopy on the cam position sensor!
Why would gm put the pcm RIGHT BEHIND THE WHEEL!! Just asking for trouble
Hurricane Sandy was October 2012. How long has that car been stored? And what the heck is that squeaking?
Old squeaky belt. So annoying I know haha
We replaced a bunch of engine harnesses and ECM's because of those connectors getting corroded.