It's from his time running a huge guild in EVE Online ages ago. Special parts of the guild were for, shall we say, "protection" and "information". Which he's basically carrying over into Ashes of Creation.
I don't know why, but he fives me a "fur freak that strikes any video about him and deletes comments while lying about his experience all the time" type of vibes.
@@RichardLofty I nearly asked why, lol, nah, he's chill. Never heard any controversy around him, though he does give some controversial opinions periodically.
Even EVE has a solution for the issues with Sov, Wormhole Space. The year or so I spent running with a small group in a Wormhole was by far the best of my EVE career.
EVE also has problems with how aggressive its playerbase is. If you want to just exist and try to have fun, nowhere is really "safe" if you catch the attention of anyone else that wants to ruin your day, they can. Not to mention, the permaloss.
@nuclearsimian3281 True, but that's also a part of the appeal to many. I remember the first time my mining ship got ganked in high sec. That's when I learned that MMO was different.
What i also find interesting is that it mimicks real life more (the AoC not EVE). In EVE, IIRC the 'good' areas that provide economic opportunity are predetermined and thus controlled by megacorps. In the AoC method, this changes. ANY node can be souped up.
I mean if you look at history - one could easily make the argument that access to and control of specific resources was the thing that mattered most - and in fact most empires were built because some leader realized the nation didn't have enough of some resource, and so they took it from a neighbor, and then used those resources to reinforce and cement their control so other people couldn't take it from them. The 'megacorp' thing that happens organically in eve is probably a natural tendency in human social systems with limited resources. They really aren't megacorps. They are empires - with propaganda, political interests , and security services.
@@swordarmstudios6052its actually interesting that EVE mimics what we think the future will be if the current mega-corps are allowed to grow continuously and buy up smaller competition that might be a problem later. We already have an organization that name is related to the stone obsidian that has its hands in everything While AoC seems like its our civilizations past. We have multiple villages, towns that some grow to be the largest City in the area which others then tend flock towards to trade, have business which then controls its nearby surroundings. Thats why we have port towns or trade towns in convenient locations that promoted the economic strength and growth of that town
@@imo098765 Ye. The idea of resources being where everyone chooses to live is a very American frontiersman mindset. People set up shop absolutely everywhere, and then the places that make most sense become really big, until they naturally stagnate everywhere nearby with their influence. Then wars happen based on the resources and defensibility of these settlements. One is natural human expansion with arbitrary lines drawn later. The other is arbitrary lines being drawn, and expansion being a consequence of resource extraction. If America was not a nation formed by foreigners, and naturally grew it its size now, it would almost certainly not be unified, and would have a much greater population in the mid west than it does. California would not be one of the largest states as well. The places that are currently rich however, would pretty much remain the same, because what places are rich on a regional basis are pretty much decided by geography.
@imo098765 the various resources of towns weren't built because everyone went into it AOC style. Farmland builds in land goodfor farming. Trade routes formed along rivers (that was the best way to transport goods). Mines from ore locations. Civilization came from the EVE methods. We just didn't call them corporations. We called them Nations. Think Egypt, China, Greeks. Eve provided benefits (like easier communication) that sped up the development but if you account for that, change the names of "organization that controls the resources" and just speed up time you'll see history follow the EVE style rather than the AOC style.
Sov doesn't prevent anybody to enter the zones. It has some perks, but anybody can enter at his own risks. People actually roam into sov systems in order to kill unsuspecting miners/crabs
@@popydev true but having sov wont stop others from using the space, the small group I was part of frequently went into sov space to for fights and to kill hteir miners and ratters, we even stole their moon goo and mined the entire thing.
@@moosemax6346 so instead of actually being useful the sov does nothing at all except make doing things for who owns the sov cheaper? also 3K players and you say "small group" like your probably not in a big guild (at least for that game) is pretty funny
That's really only a problem with games that have hard or soft target/lock mechanics. If you can coordinate your targeting with an assist macro, or a /target command, the game will always boil down to coordinated alpha dumps and devolve into a numbers game of who can delete the other side fastest via /assist or /target. There are games where this didn't happen. Darkfall is imo the best example, and while Darkfall failed for a plethora of reasons, combat wasn't the reason. Darkfall properly rewarded both numbers, for logical reasons, and skill, for logical reasons. Large numbers of players offered organic advantages, but it didn't give you ALL the advantages. Command and coordination became very problematic for large zerg guilds in Darkfall. When there is no target system, you can't just have "everyone assist Larry" and then delete people by pushing 1 button over and over. What tended to happen was, smaller groups of players could operate inside larger groups of players due to the chaos. Which allowed higher skilled groups to punish larger, lower skilled groups. This allowed the reality of de-facto ownership to come into play versus de-jure (legal) ownership. You had to be able to win the fights to ACTUALLY control the territory that the map said was yours. Ashes of Creation will be no different from games like WoW, or Eve in terms of rewarding numbers in large scale combat. If giga alliance X decides this is its territory, it will be fundamentally no different from what happens with the massive alliances in Eve. You enter their territory, and 400 people will come out of the wood work, and because combat is binary in that you push a button and you hit or you don't hit, smaller groups will be overwhelmed with no possible counter play. The ONLY tab target style MMO I've ever played that allowed small groups to compete with large groups, was DAOC, and it was 100% entirely because of the BRUTAL crowd control spells that existed in the game. A fast moving 8 man group could roll up on a 60 man group, drop a few AOE mez's that lasted for a FULL MINUTE, and then just chew through the entire 60 man group 1 or 2 at a time with a 4 or 5 man DPS train. By the time the first round of mez's were dropping, the CC'rs in the 8 man would begin refreshing for half duration (or whatever it was), which put a upward limit for most 8 man groups on how many they could burn through before the CC durations didn't last long enough. However, me running up on your 60 man group in Emain Macha and aoe mezing 55 of you for 2 minutes would NEVER fly today, so that's NOT going to happen lol.
I really don't understand why gamers would want to recreate the shittyness and annoyance or real life in a videogame. Second Job Online will never make sense to me.
@@dustrockblues7567 My theory is that it's maybe some sort of power thing since most people don't really have any sort of power in their life (such as direction of their life, emotional distress, feeling of hopelessness) so they try to gain power in the game and ruin it for others. Or maybe they're just shitty people. Either way, you're right, it doesn't make sense.
While this system does sound nice on paper, we live in the year 2024 where information spreads like wildfire and games are min-max'd like crazy. Goodluck preventing every server from looking the exact same because the best configuration provides the most lucartive events and rewards to spawn.
If they do it right that will never happen. One node might unlock a specific raid at max level, another might unlock the top mining node, another might unlock the top herb node. If each node is the best for something then they all become valuable, it just depends on what your guild is focused on. A guild full of miners and blacksmiths will value that node over the herbalists node until they have enough supply to last awhile anyway. I'm sure they'd eventually need those top level herbs if they're raiding
the popularity of min maxing getting so much larger has been the downfall of multiplayer gaming for me, like i just wanna do my own thing and have it be somewhat viable but now there are so many min maxers you just get shit on
Yeah but for that they need to know which nodes give what bonuses. Meaning you have to figure out all the combinations. It's not gonna happen unless multiple servers get together super organised and figure out every combination ever. Min maxing is about efficiency, Figuring out this minmax doesn't sound efficient at al, you better off just building your town faster than others.
@@Lyonatan for resources it'll be easy to figure out. Mountains will be heavy in ore but won't contain any fish or desert resources and will lack herb variety. A swamp will have a ton of herbs, coastal nodes will have large fish, desert nodes will probably have hard hides fand poisons from scorpions and so on
I like the approach of AoC described in the video. It's definitely more interactive. However, 2 things keep me on my toes: a) I'm not a compettiive person, I don't like being subjected to the restrictions that PvP mechanics make other players put on me (optimized builds so I don't get bullied out of open-pvp-enabled zones/content, etc). That's a personal thing that will probably keep me from ever playing AoC. 2) With a game that so heavily relies on PvP, it's very hard to predict all the interactions of various systems once they get into player's hands, and where the enable or lock down interactions. Before the game opens up wide, we won't know how exactly those things work out: E.g., if the contributions of smaller guild & individual players are so miniscule that they have no hope of actually impacting the 'wars' between nodes (e.g. big players undo in half an hour what small players take a whole day to achieve), the system in _practice_ becomes much more similar to eve even though _technically_ they can take an influence. And regarding "you can just be a bard doing funny shit with music & rumors" - yeah, systematically you can. Now, extrapolating from other open-PvP games - how long do you _actually_ think you'll survive when your attention (and possibly game-resources) is split between survival & being a bard, while you're being waylaid by a combat-optimized bandit (in the majority of cases. You'll get _some_ of any possible outcome eventually, ofc)
As of now, killing an innocent player (someone not involved in PVP) is extremely punishing. If you get corrupted all node guards kill you on sight, you get massive stats penalties and you lose actual equipment and items on death. The higher your corruption, the worst it is. That being said, if you really don't want to participate in any PVP at all, then AoC is probably not for you.
@@ZapatosVibes The way he described it in the video is that the incentive to defend your home is otherwise you lose your home and lose all your stuff. And your other option is to move, which is really dangerous because you could lose all your stuff. It sounds like a high probability of many people losing all their stuff as a side effect of other people engaging in PvP. Is he describing it wrong?
@@Spoonbringer I think there's going to be very safe nodes and less safe nodes. If you wanna make bank, you move to the more frontier nodes where a supply needs to be more readily available. If you just wanna vibe, you establish yourself in the centre of the world and hide in the large numbers. This is an assumption, not necessarily reality.
@@ZapatosVibes On top of that, there will be guilds that provide guarded escort services at a cost, if you're very concerned, and realistically, for a every bandit clan there will be a clan of goody two-shoes wanting to keep the roads safe for free.
@@Spoonbringer The game's philosophy is that risk encourages investment, that community is formed by opposing positions, and that value is determined by contrast. This unfortunately does mean that the game won't be for everyone, because it's inherently designed to bring players into conflict with each other. However, it's important to note that this conflict doesn't necessarily mean pvp. If your node is being sieged, you don't have to take part in the battle. You can instead spend time making weapons on the cheap for the rest of the population of your node. You can go out hunting for rare resources. You can spend a whole night hauling lumber to shore up the fortifications. The idea behind resources being meaningful is that you don't necessarily have to be beating the shit out of other players to contribute - the very act of gathering resources for your node contributes to the war effort. Despite this, yeah, the game's not gonna be for everyone. The emphasis on player conflict sees to that. My recommendation is that, because AoC will only have a $15 subscription fee and no box price, you should try a month of it out when it releases. If it's not for you, you aren't in the hole for wanting to be a tester, and you won't have wasted more money than is asked for for a fast food meal.
The node system was also what stood out to me the most. it's a system that if done well could provide more or less endless content, and in a way that doesn't ,make the game stale because these nodes have so many variables that change how they work and affect the world, plus it gives a good reason to have alts on other servers because of how vastly different the worlds will be in other servers. having massive dynamic events that players can effect always makes a game more memorable.
The only thing I'm worried about is with the map being so large, there'll probably be a ton of things being duplicated. I'd hate to live in one city, spend the time moving to the other side of the world, to end up in another city that ends up looking exactly the same, with the same local events. I'm hyped for this game, but trying to not get too excited about it until release.
In ArcheAge, The White Order (Steven Sharif's) guild was so massive, that it dominated many aspects of the game and you couldn't go anywhere in the game world without seeing them or their property. I don't know if he really learned anything from that, but who else can design around such a thing better than someone who did it themselves? I can't say whether or not it will work, but he's certainly saying all the right things. Saying and doing, however, are two very different things.
Yeah that isn't true lmfao. Algae literally denied his nation for two days until he paid up. Further more we have literal clips of us holding them off of pinnacle worldbosses with 40-50 to their 150. They won because we left. This is like saying disaster beat fc. No fc got bored and left or joined disaster. Even further they got rocked into the ground when oso came. And that's after picking up the remnants of algae My favorite day was taking two castles from TWO when they stole them bug abusing with costume glitch a month before. How and why? The game systems and combat allowed smaller groups with coordination to easily beat loosely ran zergs and that's what TWO was and still is. Even on TNL today. Oh! And who can forget Steven mass p2wing to bid on his own siege scrolls so we couldnt take his castles. We literally had to mass run packs and rmt just to get the goddamn scrolls. But hey game allowed him to TRY and dodge pvp so.
@@Ralangorf I have no idea what you're talking about. TWO was on the Kyrios server in 2014 if that helps. I stopped playing a couple months into it cause of the Korean MMO RNG mechanics. So what I saw was talking about that tiny sliver of time. I never went back to it, so I forgot there was a series of fresh starts and relaunches. Sorry about that.
@@OryxAU fair fair. I was discussing vengeance fresh start. Early days/launch was very different than what it turned into a year or so down the line and then on.
The problem I find with these kind of games is that the people who can play them are basically unemployed people and streamers. For people who end up in a 9to5, we end up always becoming a side character, so I find no enjoyment in these type of games any longer. Maybe would be doable if I sacrificed my relationship as well, but she is a very affectionate person who wish to spend time with me, and I would feel bad sitting and playing games for so many hours just to maintain my in-game life. But I like that the games exist though, it's a very interesting social experiment to watch.
I remember a mobile strategy game that had the same issue, there was this group that formed a massive faction on every single server; they forced you to join them and pay a percentage of your resources to them, if you didn't they would wipe you out as soon as your 7-Day Noob safety bubble went away.
@@Okubits pretty basic but there’s a foundation. It’s like if RuneScape was put into new world. That’s how it feels and i hope they get their act together and work on it
You can play in any Eve space, regardless of sov. You just cannot build super duper bases in it with your corp/alliance. You can do anything and go anywhere without sov or alliance. The only comparison would be a group of horde players standing in one area and telling alliance players that it's their area. They can come in and do whatever they want, but if horde is on, they die trying. That's all Sov is in eve. Sov also gives no bonuses except building the system up for more pve content, which anyone can use. Unless it is PLAYER DEFENDED.
It doesn't even stop you from plopping down normal starbases. Before equinox , it really didn't do anything for most people except give a passive fuel reduction to the structures unless the system was juiced up (sorta like how he says AoC's nodes work by doing more work in an area, and all that does is boost the index). The only real thing you couldn't do as a non-sov member is fiddle with the sov claim unit's upgrades or place down structures associated with said upgrades (IE warp gates, standup jammer, ect). Now with Equinox there's a slight change as Sov units can now set their specific pulls for each index upgrade. IE mining index can set the ore they want to pull, combat index sets pirates, etc. In otherwords, CCP realized just how badly they turbofucked industry back in 2020 and need to backpedal somewhat.
I clicked on this, wondering why he was talking about Age of Conan. I really wish people would at least state the game once before resorting to acronyms. Half the time, it's not one I can even figure out.
Defacto ownership isn't the same as real ownership. Case in point, game called darkfall. You could claim a city site, and build a city. This gave you "de-jure" control of a region, because your name was on it, it also gave you a leg up to locally project power in the area by the mechanism of your guild/clan being bound to that city (if they died they respawned there if they wanted). The reality was, you HAD to project power to assert real ownership. A name on the map was just that, a name on the map. If I rolled up with my 40 homies, and killed your 120 homies, and you couldn't push us out. Your house, was my house. Your name on the map? Meant nothing. I mined your resources. Eve is essentially the same thing. Sov represents "legal" ownership, but "legal" isn't the same as reality. It's organic. It makes sense. It's good. Now, the big difference between Eve and Darkfall, is skill. Eve is a low skill game, that is defined by what we could say is a tab target system. What does this mean? It means critical dump DPS. Combat is binary. People get deleted in what is essentially massive coordinated alpha dumps. In a game like Darkfall, which was a high skill ceiling first/third person shooter combat system, the inherent advantages of numbers, also had downsides. Command and control problems were very real, as was the ability for a smaller group of players to get lost in the mass of the larger group of players. This is what kept the giga zergs in Darkfall in check. They couldn't run around autofollowing each other, typing /target Davy111xr3 and then alpha dumping him to kill him. This allowed smaller groups to operate in territory "owned" by massive zergs. Basically, a game like Eve, or WoW, or even Ashes of Creation with its targeting system, doesn't have the natural and organic downsides of having a lot of people. If the game features a hard, or soft target locking system, the game will always fundamentally favor numbers over everything else due to the binary nature of damage. It's basically Lanchester's Laws applied to MMOs. What Ashes aims to do is neat and all, but it won't address the fundamental issue of de-jure, versus de-facto control of a region. Ashes will be dominated by zergs the exact same way Eve is. There will be areas of the map locked off from you and your buddies, unless you and your buddies can take de-facto control from these giga hug box alliances. The problem is, when you go into combat with them? You won't have the CC capabilities of DAOC where skill and fire control can manage mass numbers. You won't have the open form of combat like Darkfall. You will have what is fundamentally a tab target game where, a slightly coordinated group of 200 people, will roll your 40 man uber elite raid, easily.
I would encourage you to broaden your understanding of the game. De Jure vs De Facto control doesn't simply boil down to who wins the fight or who has the numbers. There are so many other factors at play. The mayor of the node (de facto: the controlling guild) has control over many things. For example, which buildings get built, taxes, mayoral commissions, buy orders, level of security in the node itself, etc. They can use all these tools to exert pressure against a hostile actor. Let's say it's a scientific node. If you want to remove them then you have two options. 1: Seige the node, but now you are no longer contending with just the controlling guild but every citizen with a vested interest in the node not falling. 2: You vote them out. They have the numbers in a seige, but not necessarily in a vote. So you spend days sowing dissent. You promise citizens lower taxes in a new regime. You raid their caravans and assault them in town forcing them to remove critical infasctructure in favor of defensive buildings. Many crafters are now forced out of the node and upset with the management. This is just one node type. Military, Economic, and Religious will also have their own mechanics to be exploited to the benefit of the defender and the aggressor. Sure fights will lack the nuance of games like Darkfall, but Ashes' selling point is it's nodes and control of these will not always come down to a fight. In fact, taking a node intact will always be better than seiging it down, much like IRL conquest. Which means that a cunning and motivated guild will have plenty of counterplay against zerg guilds/alliances.
Tab target isnt the issue. Also it isn't purely tab it has aoe and hybrid elements. Archeage already had many of these systems and worked wonders. I held off 150+ zerg with only 40 people due to our comp and skill being vastly better even with them coordinating attacks. Ashes currently is trying to replicate that but I think it's tough to tell where it sits in gvg and mass pvp until it's actually tested. With and without gear since its progression based. Also again youve posted a lot of places talking about dark fall. Perhaps that has similarities to ashes? It is meant to emulate archeage lineage and aspects of eve in economics. I didn't see dark fall on the design doc or pillars of design.
Very refreshing system. Normally I don't bother with faction or geographic based content, but this is one of the coolest designs I've seen in a while. Need more devs willing to have some content be limited for unique experiences like this and not have every piece of content be squeezed and accessible to all for the sake of monetization.
New World did something similar where you'd have to upgrade towns in order to make max gear in them. Problem was once the first wave got max gear they didn't level the towns and the gap between grew very large.
The openness of nodes is also one of the things that got me excited. I haven't played eve but i noticed the same thing in Darkfall. Almost all the cities were guild owned so you had to be a part of a guild to be a part of them. I liked how for nodes, you just have to show up. I'm hoping this kind of organically pushes people to play together.
The big price tag is for alpha access which will be reset upon release, when it launches it will be a subscription model of 15 a month (priced regionally iirc)
If you wait for christmas you have to wait until May. Kinda scummy FOMO-marketing. So many of the choices they make with AoC makes me really doubt in the success of the game. Flood UA-cam with clearly paid F-tier content creators? Check. Create the conditions for a small hyper-invested "elite" to establish themselves and basically have the game figured out before the average player even gets to play? Check. Etc.
Spend 2 years in a class 5 wh with my best Friends. It will not get any better than this. Intense, stealthy, action, best: TONS OF ISK. Playing in dreadnaughts. Living the live away from reality
When Star Wars Galaxies came out in 2000, I thought they were going for a system like this. You were either Empire or Rebel, and you could create structures. And I thought the intent was that the number and size of the Rebel or Empire compounds affected the NPCs and other gameplay events. I don’t know if they ever got it working.
SOV doesn't prevent people from entering space, generally most groups operate on a NBSI ( not blue shoot it ) mentality, so youll just get hunted and destoryed. Hostiles can still anchor structures in space but if the ADM is high then it's gonna take a longggg time
Learning about this single mechanic from this video is the best advertising I've seen for AoC so far and actually makes me want to try it out now. And that's not to say that the game looked bad before, I just hadn't looked into it too much and wasn't aware of things like this that differentiate it from other games in the genre.
very accurate for eve. i moved from one coalition to another over and over in my 8 years. was in northern coalition when it was invaded by the drone russians, than test, than nulli than pandemic legion. this ashes of creations sounds fun and wish i could try it. cause in eve if you arent in a big block group, you stuck to high sec.
I too am very interested, but also concerned about the emphasis on PvP. If all the game systems funnel toward that, I’ll be deeply disappointed … it should have its place, sure, but non-consensual PvP focused games rarely last, and it’s a very niche market. And certainly not what I envisioned when I first heard the Node pitch.
Okay, but what exactly is going to facilitate conflict? If everyone in the node benefits, wouldn't everyone just move into that 1 node? Why would the "peasant nodes" even exist?
node citizenship will be soft-capped, i.e. the more citizens there are, the more it costs to become a citizen there. also vassal nodes will benefit from being in the zone of influence of a larger node
@@lucrative6477 Age of Conan was an MMO that released in the spring of 2008. Not the same as Conan Exiles which is not an MMO. I think AoC is dead now though.
this vid made me want to play AoC it seems so cool and ive been looking for an mmo for myself for a long time after i stopped playing wow. thanks for being such a goat
Looooong time solo EvE player here, the AoC system involving EVERYONE is what faction warfare in EvE should have been. When I still played, half the people in FW systems were not in militias, but just solo pvpers looking for no strings fights or traders making ISK off all the exploding ships, we would have enjoyed getting involved in fights over systems without the hassle of joining militias.
I don’t know if anyone remembers my group but; somewhere in a little singular star system in the ass end of the game my guild held up. Now a very VERY small amount of you will remember the name Rollers, and to those that remember…. Hahaha I tip my hat to ya, it was an honor fighting you all! We had found an exploit that allowed us to be permanently cloaked and yet still completely battle ready. No uncloaking needed! Does anyone remember getting jumped by 7 or 8 ships that just didn’t appear? Sorry to say that was us. Now this went on for months, I think our reign of that singular system lasted 9 months. I remember daily raids, almost daily people trying to smoke us or brute force us… but you can’t kill what you can’t see. Honestly that started as a… joke but we killed the wrong bounty hunter and so he spiraled into multiple people and guilds trying to kill us… Sadly an empires birthright is to die. One lucky son of a gun managed to get me out the game. StarLeo, if you read this I applaud you! You fought well for a pirate and dare I say you were the best I’d ever fought! Our little system is now home to a megacorp last time I checked so I won’t name it for now. But I want those who remember us to know: hehe some of us still live.
Ehhhhh, the most glaring of issues is population. It would need somewhat close to WoW levels of population for this to matter. Even then, the LARGEST node is just going to win all fights and battles. This is the New World problem, where they had a territory system, and the most populated color just won on the server. The mega corporation just wins every time, can throw as many solos as you want in the smaller node but when the largest guild who has more solo's because it's the largest guild and so most will flock to it? Will just steam roll and run the map, if there are no safety rails for it.
This is more to do with the style of combat in these games. The systems themselves don't lead to this. It's the combat. If I can /assist or /target or otherwise soft or hard target, critical mass alpha dumping is incredibly difficult to deal with. If the combat is more FPS based, with no targeting? Numbers has strengths, but it isn't artificially boosted by "EVERYONE ASSIST BADBOYJIMMY696969" and then fat finger your way to globally killing people 1 after the next. There has been at least 1 MMO that was like this, and it showed what was possible for smaller groups to do to bigger less coordinated groups. The problem that game had (darkfall), wasn't the combat, it was pretty much everything else!
I love most of what you have to say about EVE. I loved EVE for awhile, I love just being out in space mining. I couldn't care about most of the rest of the game. Even joined Razor to do mining in null sec, but it was the I have to join the huge fights to be able to mine, and that was a bit more than I wanted. Then they took away walking in space. I have yet to return to EVE. I do miss mining in space, and no other game has been able to give that to me with the view that EVE did.
I used to loooove playing Eve. Joined a corp and we had a base in an area that they owned. I took a break for a few months and when I came back, that corporation had disbanded and someone else owned the station. I asked if I could leave and they said yes and then killed me. Lost my best ship and all my stuff was still on that station. I spawn a few dozen systems away with absolutely nothing but my skills and that was enough of that. I hope it's not possible to just lose everything you own in AoC
The node system is genius so long as enemy scale is adjusted properly so as not to lock out new or low level (potentially causal) players. This is more important with larger servers where large areas become impossible to use.
What im most interested in is how fun would that game be for a solo player. ive played many mmos over the years, but im not really a guild joining type of guy
i got into eve cause the shooter game theyve been working on for a decade now, but ive lost interest kinda with the newest build, waiting to see more in late november
As great and fun this sounds as an experience, megalomaniac players/guilds will make their life mission to be a powerhouse force that will see to gain and hold as much as they can, i would not be surprised if most servers see an overpopulated 'level 4' city that never changes hands or locations, or each server has the same nodes leveled exactly the same way to min-max efficiency. I feel like the vast majority of committed players nowadays arnt even going to bother thinking about not going with the biggest faction/node off the bat, especially when it comes at a risk of loss/opportunity. It feels like most gamers now will play for safety, convenience, and efficiency, over immersion. it may not work like EvE, but it very well may just end up like EvE Im the type that chooses to go to the quieter places in these type of games, and every time im left looking at what i could of had, thinking "why didnt i just join the mega-guild spaces?". while the few who opts to the quiet spaces are not the type to worry about banding together to achieve a similar size. hard to assume this game will do it perfectly all of a sudden
The thing is not every mega-guild is inherently evil, many will have smaller guilds and independents knowingly and willingly in their areas and they won't attack strangers on site without cause. AOC actively promotes collaborating. Also the system here allows for a collection of medium guilds and smaller to work together and share power in ways other games wouldn't meaning a group of smaller guilds working together can take on a corrupt larger guild.
Yeah but a thing I am not a fan of is subscription based games. With Eve online if you play it enough you can buy the premium currency from other players and get the monthly without having to spend money on it. That's why I like eve online and Albion online. The only semi valid reason for a subscription based games is to help decrease gold bots but if the game is popular enough they are still going to be a problem.
DF didn't try to do this. They tried to slap a node system into the game, but their node system was nothing like this. Their node system was basically lame pois that had very very very marginal rewards that people could fight over on a timer. DF would have been a much better game had they presented an organic reason for city building as it turned out, people like me, guy who ran TheMercs and the Afghan alliance, recognized early on that cities were nothing but a time and resource sink that really gave nothing back other than maybe SOME security (once zap towers emerged). Why build a city, when I can just raid your city on a timer, and take all your rare resources whenever I want, because I had my alliance focus on character building, not city building.
I wish I could enjoy these kind of games again, I played Ultima years ago and EvE afterwards, but nowadays don't really have the energy for the stress inducing fear of potentially losing everything
your analogy of the eve sov system wasnt quite accurate people outside of the allainces holding sov cant utilize the space like the sov holders can but they can still enter it and hunt the people that are using it which is great for content creation and a staple for some pvp alliances in eve
I think it's really cool that we're talking about Ashes as though it's a real video game now. I mean that completely sincerely. I really hope Intrepid doesn't blow it.
The entire premise of EvE is also that you cannot manage things of that scale solo or in a small group. A small group can maybe setup for a single system or a single wormhole. But to gain control and hold many systems you need the economy of scale.
The underlying issue with that is, once that much effort has been expended, those large groups don't want to pack it in and try something else. There's a reason the main alignment axis of eve has boiled down to two main groups. For years the third slice of the pie is just a proving ground for whatever group holds it, until they're absorbed by one of the two main groups.
The thing that kills any excitement for AoC for me is things like dungeons being open world. They’ve openly said that the bosses are only gonna drop stuff for the group that does the most damage to it. Which just means that bigger guilds are going to monopolize dungeons and kill anyone who tries, ya know, playing the game.
One difference between eve and aoc is aoc force you to be a guild member, they push it so far that you cant even get the best gear without being a guild member. eve doesn't do that you can play eve however you want. So if you played eve and didn't like being a foot soldier for some alliances then played it solo like lowsec pvp or hisec hauling, site running whatever don't play this game cos i think this game doesn't allow solo play as much as eve does. Btw having a SOV in null doesn't mean your untouchable and no one cant come in your sov. Lastly i find this game's development process is a bit unhealthy cos owner of the game design it to the point that force players to play his dream game in his way of playing leaving no room for other ways which is pity cos he is i think very talented and this game is very well designed in many aspects.
sounds really cool on paper, but i wonder how this is going to go, either completely ignored, or big guilds will just control the whole server and solo players will just stop playing and the game will die
Has there been a recently released MMORPG with strong community driven systems that lasted for a decent amount of time? Not a baiting question, btw, genuinely interested.
I hear you Thor and even though I can't imagine how AoC will make this happen, not having a single server in 2025 for the sov/node system is a massive let down for big pvp guilds. we'll see
Um... in sov nothing stops players from entering that space. We go raid others all the time. Being within Sov brings perks and system upgrades... a few more things... but that's about it. Yes you have to attack structures to break sov and change hands but even unaligned new players can go and play in pc null. There are quite a few that do relic and data hunting... or in small gang ess or rat/krab hunting
its not gonna work because nobody has enough time to always be on when they need to defend all theyve built up. this system just makes it so you need to be there on time more than you do for your own job in RL.
Hey Thor I love your videos and you inspired me to make my first my first platformer game! I'm using gamemaker but I have some doubts about game resolution, camera and room size, the room size of my game is 1024x768, and I setup the camera to be 640x360, it works but I'm not sure if my game resolution is equal to my camera size, also the game window is based on my room size?? So my game is pixel art, platformer what would it be the best way to set the resolution and camera in gamemaker?
I never tought Eve system was bad until u pointed it out, it can be considered end game content but hey, it locks content from smaller corps unless they join huge alliance
There's this letter I've read in our literature by Eminescu. He wrote a few about our heritage and history fighting nodes 😅. Once upon a time, there was this king that used to dry (our own) all the spring water wells that the enemy needed to use in order to make sure his/hers troupes were not thirsty. By the time the enemy reached our "castle", it was so drained, that we could fight without any palaver. Why? Mens sana in corpore sano. On both sides. Thanks. Morale of the story? Everyone needs water. But only a few know where to dig for an infinite spring.
"You could lose everything" is the part where i draw the line in PVP games. I have played Eve Online before and managed to get a few capital ships in there. It takes a long time to be able to fly them (skill training) and then theres the ingame financial issue. I dont like having to spend years to be able to afford the cool stuff, just for some random guy to take it all away from me just for shits and giggles. Granted it DOES make you very cautious, but when i did lose my ships, it demotivated me so much i quit all together. Not because im mad at losing my shit, but because i dont want to go through all that hassle again just for the same thing to happen again. This is why i stick to PVE games mostly, because its relaxing, much more fun, and you dont lose your stuff
you dont have to be apart of major alliances in order to get a space in nullspace. you can fight for space if you have numbers. you can also rent space within null. the problem with EVE overall is that its space has been established for a long time now. there have been many wars to fight over space so major null block alliances like panfam and the imperium have been well established for a long time. the major issue right now is recruiting for a new corp / alliance to be able to setup in null without major leverage and isk which takes time
@@antonin2478 my understanding it is, but supposedly they have things in place to "discourage" it, but the types of people attracted to PVP won't be that discouraged. If I learned anything gaming, people ALWAYS find a way around things.
It all sounds good on paper but you need a consistently high server population for the node system to work properly. Also, AoC is leaning towards "sort of a forced PvP" model so that makes it a relatively niche MMO that possibly won't have many players playing. Other than that, the whole node system seems very cool and unique!
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
“Hey maybe your enemies slip and fall on a dagger 37 times. These things happen.”
Is what happened to ceaser lmaoooooo
yeah, just don't question why their hands are gone
@@jackoghost CAAAAAARL!!!
Hey, it's not even March!
@@dragonfan8647 the unicorns were worse... way worse...
3:34 I don’t know much about the channel lore, but Thor gives me goblin mafia vibes.
Honestly, don't really know channel lore either, but from all I have seen of Thor, sounds accurate.
I mean he is THE goblin lord after all
It's from his time running a huge guild in EVE Online ages ago.
Special parts of the guild were for, shall we say, "protection" and "information".
Which he's basically carrying over into Ashes of Creation.
I don't know why, but he fives me a "fur freak that strikes any video about him and deletes comments while lying about his experience all the time" type of vibes.
@@RichardLofty I nearly asked why, lol, nah, he's chill. Never heard any controversy around him, though he does give some controversial opinions periodically.
Dropping the Ministry of Truth so casually is a very scary thing
You're just not used to it.
@@mabell01 😳
The Ministry of Truth doesn't exist...
@@Jackson_Zheng It took me a long time, but you will get used to it That doesn't mean you have to approve of it.
Have to approve??? Bruh was he not just referencing a book, or is the ministry of truth a real thing now???
Even EVE has a solution for the issues with Sov, Wormhole Space. The year or so I spent running with a small group in a Wormhole was by far the best of my EVE career.
WHs are controlled by large groups too. Or were. Haven't played in a while.
Wormholes were definitely fun but tiring.
@@SuperS05 They certainly can be. Having to monitor new connections and rolling ones that need to be rolled.
EVE also has problems with how aggressive its playerbase is. If you want to just exist and try to have fun, nowhere is really "safe" if you catch the attention of anyone else that wants to ruin your day, they can. Not to mention, the permaloss.
@nuclearsimian3281 True, but that's also a part of the appeal to many. I remember the first time my mining ship got ganked in high sec. That's when I learned that MMO was different.
Eve is basically a full time job where you work your way up from the lowly wage slave. Eve’s format makes sense, like you said.
From lowly wage slave to higher wage slave indeed 🤣
@@Dargini Some corps will pay you to be cannon fodder.
and much like the format would imply, one faction makes backroom deals with the devs and gets perks and privileges the others dont.
@@G4RYWithaFour never happened
@@Daide-j4i CCP is that you? We know your dirty secrets...we know what you did to Stribog...
Eve online vs Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yu-Gi-Oh! vs. Marjorie Taylor Greene
Only situation where I'd give AOC the W
@@achair7958You rather give her the D not the W
Wtf lmao
@achair7958 idk at least eve online didn't cost its constituents thousands of jobs.
What i also find interesting is that it mimicks real life more (the AoC not EVE). In EVE, IIRC the 'good' areas that provide economic opportunity are predetermined and thus controlled by megacorps. In the AoC method, this changes. ANY node can be souped up.
Art reflects real life.
I mean if you look at history - one could easily make the argument that access to and control of specific resources was the thing that mattered most - and in fact most empires were built because some leader realized the nation didn't have enough of some resource, and so they took it from a neighbor, and then used those resources to reinforce and cement their control so other people couldn't take it from them.
The 'megacorp' thing that happens organically in eve is probably a natural tendency in human social systems with limited resources. They really aren't megacorps. They are empires - with propaganda, political interests , and security services.
@@swordarmstudios6052its actually interesting that EVE mimics what we think the future will be if the current mega-corps are allowed to grow continuously and buy up smaller competition that might be a problem later. We already have an organization that name is related to the stone obsidian that has its hands in everything
While AoC seems like its our civilizations past. We have multiple villages, towns that some grow to be the largest City in the area which others then tend flock towards to trade, have business which then controls its nearby surroundings. Thats why we have port towns or trade towns in convenient locations that promoted the economic strength and growth of that town
@@imo098765 Ye. The idea of resources being where everyone chooses to live is a very American frontiersman mindset. People set up shop absolutely everywhere, and then the places that make most sense become really big, until they naturally stagnate everywhere nearby with their influence. Then wars happen based on the resources and defensibility of these settlements. One is natural human expansion with arbitrary lines drawn later. The other is arbitrary lines being drawn, and expansion being a consequence of resource extraction.
If America was not a nation formed by foreigners, and naturally grew it its size now, it would almost certainly not be unified, and would have a much greater population in the mid west than it does. California would not be one of the largest states as well. The places that are currently rich however, would pretty much remain the same, because what places are rich on a regional basis are pretty much decided by geography.
@imo098765 the various resources of towns weren't built because everyone went into it AOC style. Farmland builds in land goodfor farming. Trade routes formed along rivers (that was the best way to transport goods). Mines from ore locations.
Civilization came from the EVE methods. We just didn't call them corporations. We called them Nations. Think Egypt, China, Greeks. Eve provided benefits (like easier communication) that sped up the development but if you account for that, change the names of "organization that controls the resources" and just speed up time you'll see history follow the EVE style rather than the AOC style.
Sov doesn't prevent anybody to enter the zones. It has some perks, but anybody can enter at his own risks. People actually roam into sov systems in order to kill unsuspecting miners/crabs
i mean yeet filaments are also thing
seem he has no clue how sov in eve works.
@@yovos6385 He most probably know very well how it works.
@@popydev true but having sov wont stop others from using the space, the small group I was part of frequently went into sov space to for fights and to kill hteir miners and ratters, we even stole their moon goo and mined the entire thing.
@@moosemax6346 so instead of actually being useful the sov does nothing at all except make doing things for who owns the sov cheaper? also 3K players and you say "small group" like your probably not in a big guild (at least for that game) is pretty funny
The classic MMO failure point, "Join one zerg guild or GTFO and don't bother playing", EVE showed that in spades.
Throne and liberty suffers the same problem. Medium size guild can't play
This is no different, dude has a mega guild that is so large that it won't fit on a single server.
@@rooster1012 nah he just has the concept of a guild
That's really only a problem with games that have hard or soft target/lock mechanics.
If you can coordinate your targeting with an assist macro, or a /target command, the game will always boil down to coordinated alpha dumps and devolve into a numbers game of who can delete the other side fastest via /assist or /target.
There are games where this didn't happen. Darkfall is imo the best example, and while Darkfall failed for a plethora of reasons, combat wasn't the reason. Darkfall properly rewarded both numbers, for logical reasons, and skill, for logical reasons.
Large numbers of players offered organic advantages, but it didn't give you ALL the advantages. Command and coordination became very problematic for large zerg guilds in Darkfall. When there is no target system, you can't just have "everyone assist Larry" and then delete people by pushing 1 button over and over.
What tended to happen was, smaller groups of players could operate inside larger groups of players due to the chaos. Which allowed higher skilled groups to punish larger, lower skilled groups.
This allowed the reality of de-facto ownership to come into play versus de-jure (legal) ownership. You had to be able to win the fights to ACTUALLY control the territory that the map said was yours.
Ashes of Creation will be no different from games like WoW, or Eve in terms of rewarding numbers in large scale combat. If giga alliance X decides this is its territory, it will be fundamentally no different from what happens with the massive alliances in Eve. You enter their territory, and 400 people will come out of the wood work, and because combat is binary in that you push a button and you hit or you don't hit, smaller groups will be overwhelmed with no possible counter play.
The ONLY tab target style MMO I've ever played that allowed small groups to compete with large groups, was DAOC, and it was 100% entirely because of the BRUTAL crowd control spells that existed in the game. A fast moving 8 man group could roll up on a 60 man group, drop a few AOE mez's that lasted for a FULL MINUTE, and then just chew through the entire 60 man group 1 or 2 at a time with a 4 or 5 man DPS train. By the time the first round of mez's were dropping, the CC'rs in the 8 man would begin refreshing for half duration (or whatever it was), which put a upward limit for most 8 man groups on how many they could burn through before the CC durations didn't last long enough. However, me running up on your 60 man group in Emain Macha and aoe mezing 55 of you for 2 minutes would NEVER fly today, so that's NOT going to happen lol.
Add to that that ashes is a bad game, and you've got a real recipe for failure.
Having played the alpha, it's not worth anyone's time.
AoC? Age of Conan ?
(Answer- Ashes of creation)
Ashes of Creation
@@louieberg2942 Thank you. I ended up rewatching the video. I just wasn't paying attention the first time.
I initially thought it was age of Conan
I was thinking Dark Age of Camelot for some reason!
People need to talk about Age of Conan more so ill allow it.@dach829
0:57 So... it's like real life!
I really don't understand why gamers would want to recreate the shittyness and annoyance or real life in a videogame. Second Job Online will never make sense to me.
I think that is essentially what it is. Eve is sort of a simulation of our real economy in some ways.
@@dustrockblues7567 My theory is that it's maybe some sort of power thing since most people don't really have any sort of power in their life (such as direction of their life, emotional distress, feeling of hopelessness) so they try to gain power in the game and ruin it for others. Or maybe they're just shitty people. Either way, you're right, it doesn't make sense.
@@Rishi-nc1mn but they could be doing the exact same thing in real life, and with a lot less spreadsheets (if we are talking about EvE)
@@marcogenovesi8570There are a lot of people that find it easier to accumulate power in a virtual world than in the real world
4:09 Battlebit on release was a wild ride, man.
People gotta organize a Battlebit return every so often, we gotta bring it back every couple months at the least
I was crazy once...
While this system does sound nice on paper, we live in the year 2024 where information spreads like wildfire and games are min-max'd like crazy. Goodluck preventing every server from looking the exact same because the best configuration provides the most lucartive events and rewards to spawn.
If they do it right that will never happen. One node might unlock a specific raid at max level, another might unlock the top mining node, another might unlock the top herb node. If each node is the best for something then they all become valuable, it just depends on what your guild is focused on. A guild full of miners and blacksmiths will value that node over the herbalists node until they have enough supply to last awhile anyway. I'm sure they'd eventually need those top level herbs if they're raiding
the popularity of min maxing getting so much larger has been the downfall of multiplayer gaming for me, like i just wanna do my own thing and have it be somewhat viable but now there are so many min maxers you just get shit on
Yeah but for that they need to know which nodes give what bonuses. Meaning you have to figure out all the combinations. It's not gonna happen unless multiple servers get together super organised and figure out every combination ever.
Min maxing is about efficiency,
Figuring out this minmax doesn't sound efficient at al, you better off just building your town faster than others.
Blame brain dead cucks who don't know how to play a game any other way. Just copy and paste what you see online😂
@@Lyonatan for resources it'll be easy to figure out. Mountains will be heavy in ore but won't contain any fish or desert resources and will lack herb variety. A swamp will have a ton of herbs, coastal nodes will have large fish, desert nodes will probably have hard hides fand poisons from scorpions and so on
I like the approach of AoC described in the video. It's definitely more interactive. However, 2 things keep me on my toes: a) I'm not a compettiive person, I don't like being subjected to the restrictions that PvP mechanics make other players put on me (optimized builds so I don't get bullied out of open-pvp-enabled zones/content, etc). That's a personal thing that will probably keep me from ever playing AoC.
2) With a game that so heavily relies on PvP, it's very hard to predict all the interactions of various systems once they get into player's hands, and where the enable or lock down interactions. Before the game opens up wide, we won't know how exactly those things work out: E.g., if the contributions of smaller guild & individual players are so miniscule that they have no hope of actually impacting the 'wars' between nodes (e.g. big players undo in half an hour what small players take a whole day to achieve), the system in _practice_ becomes much more similar to eve even though _technically_ they can take an influence.
And regarding "you can just be a bard doing funny shit with music & rumors" - yeah, systematically you can. Now, extrapolating from other open-PvP games - how long do you _actually_ think you'll survive when your attention (and possibly game-resources) is split between survival & being a bard, while you're being waylaid by a combat-optimized bandit (in the majority of cases. You'll get _some_ of any possible outcome eventually, ofc)
As of now, killing an innocent player (someone not involved in PVP) is extremely punishing. If you get corrupted all node guards kill you on sight, you get massive stats penalties and you lose actual equipment and items on death. The higher your corruption, the worst it is. That being said, if you really don't want to participate in any PVP at all, then AoC is probably not for you.
@@ZapatosVibes The way he described it in the video is that the incentive to defend your home is otherwise you lose your home and lose all your stuff. And your other option is to move, which is really dangerous because you could lose all your stuff. It sounds like a high probability of many people losing all their stuff as a side effect of other people engaging in PvP. Is he describing it wrong?
@@Spoonbringer I think there's going to be very safe nodes and less safe nodes. If you wanna make bank, you move to the more frontier nodes where a supply needs to be more readily available. If you just wanna vibe, you establish yourself in the centre of the world and hide in the large numbers.
This is an assumption, not necessarily reality.
@@ZapatosVibes On top of that, there will be guilds that provide guarded escort services at a cost, if you're very concerned, and realistically, for a every bandit clan there will be a clan of goody two-shoes wanting to keep the roads safe for free.
@@Spoonbringer The game's philosophy is that risk encourages investment, that community is formed by opposing positions, and that value is determined by contrast. This unfortunately does mean that the game won't be for everyone, because it's inherently designed to bring players into conflict with each other.
However, it's important to note that this conflict doesn't necessarily mean pvp. If your node is being sieged, you don't have to take part in the battle. You can instead spend time making weapons on the cheap for the rest of the population of your node. You can go out hunting for rare resources. You can spend a whole night hauling lumber to shore up the fortifications. The idea behind resources being meaningful is that you don't necessarily have to be beating the shit out of other players to contribute - the very act of gathering resources for your node contributes to the war effort.
Despite this, yeah, the game's not gonna be for everyone. The emphasis on player conflict sees to that. My recommendation is that, because AoC will only have a $15 subscription fee and no box price, you should try a month of it out when it releases. If it's not for you, you aren't in the hole for wanting to be a tester, and you won't have wasted more money than is asked for for a fast food meal.
The node system was also what stood out to me the most. it's a system that if done well could provide more or less endless content, and in a way that doesn't ,make the game stale because these nodes have so many variables that change how they work and affect the world, plus it gives a good reason to have alts on other servers because of how vastly different the worlds will be in other servers. having massive dynamic events that players can effect always makes a game more memorable.
The only thing I'm worried about is with the map being so large, there'll probably be a ton of things being duplicated. I'd hate to live in one city, spend the time moving to the other side of the world, to end up in another city that ends up looking exactly the same, with the same local events. I'm hyped for this game, but trying to not get too excited about it until release.
In ArcheAge, The White Order (Steven Sharif's) guild was so massive, that it dominated many aspects of the game and you couldn't go anywhere in the game world without seeing them or their property. I don't know if he really learned anything from that, but who else can design around such a thing better than someone who did it themselves? I can't say whether or not it will work, but he's certainly saying all the right things. Saying and doing, however, are two very different things.
Yeah that isn't true lmfao. Algae literally denied his nation for two days until he paid up.
Further more we have literal clips of us holding them off of pinnacle worldbosses with 40-50 to their 150. They won because we left. This is like saying disaster beat fc. No fc got bored and left or joined disaster.
Even further they got rocked into the ground when oso came. And that's after picking up the remnants of algae
My favorite day was taking two castles from TWO when they stole them bug abusing with costume glitch a month before.
How and why? The game systems and combat allowed smaller groups with coordination to easily beat loosely ran zergs and that's what TWO was and still is. Even on TNL today.
Oh! And who can forget Steven mass p2wing to bid on his own siege scrolls so we couldnt take his castles. We literally had to mass run packs and rmt just to get the goddamn scrolls. But hey game allowed him to TRY and dodge pvp so.
@@Ralangorf I have no idea what you're talking about. TWO was on the Kyrios server in 2014 if that helps. I stopped playing a couple months into it cause of the Korean MMO RNG mechanics. So what I saw was talking about that tiny sliver of time. I never went back to it, so I forgot there was a series of fresh starts and relaunches. Sorry about that.
@@OryxAU fair fair. I was discussing vengeance fresh start. Early days/launch was very different than what it turned into a year or so down the line and then on.
@@Ralangorf Ah yeah, appreciate the clarification. I really enjoyed my time with the game for what it's worth, good to hear others did too.
The problem I find with these kind of games is that the people who can play them are basically unemployed people and streamers.
For people who end up in a 9to5, we end up always becoming a side character, so I find no enjoyment in these type of games any longer.
Maybe would be doable if I sacrificed my relationship as well, but she is a very affectionate person who wish to spend time with me, and I would feel bad sitting and playing games for so many hours just to maintain my in-game life.
But I like that the games exist though, it's a very interesting social experiment to watch.
unemployed people and streamers lol very true.
you're describing most mmo's there
I remember a mobile strategy game that had the same issue, there was this group that formed a massive faction on every single server; they forced you to join them and pay a percentage of your resources to them, if you didn't they would wipe you out as soon as your 7-Day Noob safety bubble went away.
Misread the thumbnail as Ao3 and was very confused confused for several seconds
If AoC is ever actually released it’ll be tons of fun
Playing the Alpha right now.
@@PirateSoftware how does it look like to you? do you see it being released this decade?
@@Okubits pretty basic but there’s a foundation. It’s like if RuneScape was put into new world. That’s how it feels and i hope they get their act together and work on it
@@OkubI feel like we are multiple years away from launch but it’s okay
@@PirateSoftwarehow much you have to pay to work as a playtester? Uhhh I mean play the alpha
You can play in any Eve space, regardless of sov. You just cannot build super duper bases in it with your corp/alliance. You can do anything and go anywhere without sov or alliance. The only comparison would be a group of horde players standing in one area and telling alliance players that it's their area. They can come in and do whatever they want, but if horde is on, they die trying. That's all Sov is in eve. Sov also gives no bonuses except building the system up for more pve content, which anyone can use. Unless it is PLAYER DEFENDED.
It doesn't even stop you from plopping down normal starbases. Before equinox , it really didn't do anything for most people except give a passive fuel reduction to the structures unless the system was juiced up (sorta like how he says AoC's nodes work by doing more work in an area, and all that does is boost the index). The only real thing you couldn't do as a non-sov member is fiddle with the sov claim unit's upgrades or place down structures associated with said upgrades (IE warp gates, standup jammer, ect).
Now with Equinox there's a slight change as Sov units can now set their specific pulls for each index upgrade. IE mining index can set the ore they want to pull, combat index sets pirates, etc. In otherwords, CCP realized just how badly they turbofucked industry back in 2020 and need to backpedal somewhat.
I clicked on this, wondering why he was talking about Age of Conan. I really wish people would at least state the game once before resorting to acronyms. Half the time, it's not one I can even figure out.
Lmao yeah. AoC will be Age of Conan until it finally dies for me.
Is aoc not age of conan? Will stop that down load. What is the game?
@@ericwilliams1659 Ashes of Creation
He did at some point say Ashes of Creation. But yeah, it should be more clear.
@Notabot-2112 ok, he says both Ashes and Ashes of creation. Just had to focus and stop playing with the dog.
“ Bro! I got bottom noded so hard last night! We got gang-servered back into the stone ages “
The slaanesh bots are attacking, remain pure brothers!
@@eleuis the Emperor protects
Slaanesh bots?
*searched it*
Oh. That's a way to put it.
slaanashes of creation
Don't blame slaanesh on tzcheench deception
Defacto ownership isn't the same as real ownership.
Case in point, game called darkfall. You could claim a city site, and build a city. This gave you "de-jure" control of a region, because your name was on it, it also gave you a leg up to locally project power in the area by the mechanism of your guild/clan being bound to that city (if they died they respawned there if they wanted).
The reality was, you HAD to project power to assert real ownership. A name on the map was just that, a name on the map. If I rolled up with my 40 homies, and killed your 120 homies, and you couldn't push us out. Your house, was my house. Your name on the map? Meant nothing. I mined your resources.
Eve is essentially the same thing. Sov represents "legal" ownership, but "legal" isn't the same as reality.
It's organic. It makes sense. It's good.
Now, the big difference between Eve and Darkfall, is skill. Eve is a low skill game, that is defined by what we could say is a tab target system. What does this mean? It means critical dump DPS. Combat is binary. People get deleted in what is essentially massive coordinated alpha dumps. In a game like Darkfall, which was a high skill ceiling first/third person shooter combat system, the inherent advantages of numbers, also had downsides.
Command and control problems were very real, as was the ability for a smaller group of players to get lost in the mass of the larger group of players.
This is what kept the giga zergs in Darkfall in check. They couldn't run around autofollowing each other, typing /target Davy111xr3 and then alpha dumping him to kill him. This allowed smaller groups to operate in territory "owned" by massive zergs.
Basically, a game like Eve, or WoW, or even Ashes of Creation with its targeting system, doesn't have the natural and organic downsides of having a lot of people. If the game features a hard, or soft target locking system, the game will always fundamentally favor numbers over everything else due to the binary nature of damage. It's basically Lanchester's Laws applied to MMOs.
What Ashes aims to do is neat and all, but it won't address the fundamental issue of de-jure, versus de-facto control of a region. Ashes will be dominated by zergs the exact same way Eve is. There will be areas of the map locked off from you and your buddies, unless you and your buddies can take de-facto control from these giga hug box alliances. The problem is, when you go into combat with them? You won't have the CC capabilities of DAOC where skill and fire control can manage mass numbers. You won't have the open form of combat like Darkfall. You will have what is fundamentally a tab target game where, a slightly coordinated group of 200 people, will roll your 40 man uber elite raid, easily.
I would encourage you to broaden your understanding of the game. De Jure vs De Facto control doesn't simply boil down to who wins the fight or who has the numbers. There are so many other factors at play. The mayor of the node (de facto: the controlling guild) has control over many things. For example, which buildings get built, taxes, mayoral commissions, buy orders, level of security in the node itself, etc. They can use all these tools to exert pressure against a hostile actor.
Let's say it's a scientific node. If you want to remove them then you have two options. 1: Seige the node, but now you are no longer contending with just the controlling guild but every citizen with a vested interest in the node not falling. 2: You vote them out. They have the numbers in a seige, but not necessarily in a vote. So you spend days sowing dissent. You promise citizens lower taxes in a new regime. You raid their caravans and assault them in town forcing them to remove critical infasctructure in favor of defensive buildings. Many crafters are now forced out of the node and upset with the management.
This is just one node type. Military, Economic, and Religious will also have their own mechanics to be exploited to the benefit of the defender and the aggressor. Sure fights will lack the nuance of games like Darkfall, but Ashes' selling point is it's nodes and control of these will not always come down to a fight. In fact, taking a node intact will always be better than seiging it down, much like IRL conquest. Which means that a cunning and motivated guild will have plenty of counterplay against zerg guilds/alliances.
Tab target isnt the issue. Also it isn't purely tab it has aoe and hybrid elements. Archeage already had many of these systems and worked wonders. I held off 150+ zerg with only 40 people due to our comp and skill being vastly better even with them coordinating attacks.
Ashes currently is trying to replicate that but I think it's tough to tell where it sits in gvg and mass pvp until it's actually tested. With and without gear since its progression based. Also again youve posted a lot of places talking about dark fall. Perhaps that has similarities to ashes? It is meant to emulate archeage lineage and aspects of eve in economics. I didn't see dark fall on the design doc or pillars of design.
I thought this was gonna be about Advent of Code 💀
Very refreshing system. Normally I don't bother with faction or geographic based content, but this is one of the coolest designs I've seen in a while. Need more devs willing to have some content be limited for unique experiences like this and not have every piece of content be squeezed and accessible to all for the sake of monetization.
New World did something similar where you'd have to upgrade towns in order to make max gear in them. Problem was once the first wave got max gear they didn't level the towns and the gap between grew very large.
I clicked on this thinking it was about Advent of Code lmfao
Anyone ever notice how whenever Thor makes a square he does the top and right side together and the bottom and left sides seperately, every time
The openness of nodes is also one of the things that got me excited. I haven't played eve but i noticed the same thing in Darkfall. Almost all the cities were guild owned so you had to be a part of a guild to be a part of them. I liked how for nodes, you just have to show up. I'm hoping this kind of organically pushes people to play together.
definitely clicked on this thinking it was going to be about advent of code
PvP stuff aside, it is just genuinely really cool that the areas most played in get developed the most
@@yodawgzgaming4416 It makes the most sense because these populated areas usually become the "Hub world" of the server and that's cool
Love to see mercenary systems where they can either help to protect where they are or help the other side overtake what is already there.
You have my attention
however I see the price tag
I think I'll wait for christmas or something but this looks cool
for AoC? maybe wait for the actual release, even... only join now if you're interested in giving feedback, etc
Yeah... game isn't even released yet. :D Fun that Thor gives such credit to a game that's not even out yet.
The big price tag is for alpha access which will be reset upon release, when it launches it will be a subscription model of 15 a month (priced regionally iirc)
If you wait for christmas you have to wait until May. Kinda scummy FOMO-marketing. So many of the choices they make with AoC makes me really doubt in the success of the game. Flood UA-cam with clearly paid F-tier content creators? Check. Create the conditions for a small hyper-invested "elite" to establish themselves and basically have the game figured out before the average player even gets to play? Check. Etc.
Gotcha I'll wait for full release
Bruh I love this. if only there was a game like this
Spend 2 years in a class 5 wh with my best Friends. It will not get any better than this. Intense, stealthy, action, best: TONS OF ISK. Playing in dreadnaughts. Living the live away from reality
I didn't realize how interesting the systems were in AOC. Glad you shared this. I'm definitely keeping an eye on it now
When Star Wars Galaxies came out in 2000, I thought they were going for a system like this. You were either Empire or Rebel, and you could create structures. And I thought the intent was that the number and size of the Rebel or Empire compounds affected the NPCs and other gameplay events. I don’t know if they ever got it working.
whoever does your thumbnails needs a raise and promotion to CEO
SOV doesn't prevent people from entering space, generally most groups operate on a NBSI ( not blue shoot it ) mentality, so youll just get hunted and destoryed. Hostiles can still anchor structures in space but if the ADM is high then it's gonna take a longggg time
I really like the different colours of your Shirts in each video
My Hyrule Warriors poisoned mind read “AoC” and immediately read it as “Age of Calamity”
Learning about this single mechanic from this video is the best advertising I've seen for AoC so far and actually makes me want to try it out now.
And that's not to say that the game looked bad before, I just hadn't looked into it too much and wasn't aware of things like this that differentiate it from other games in the genre.
the more thor talks about ashes of creation the more I wanna play it!
very accurate for eve. i moved from one coalition to another over and over in my 8 years. was in northern coalition when it was invaded by the drone russians, than test, than nulli than pandemic legion. this ashes of creations sounds fun and wish i could try it. cause in eve if you arent in a big block group, you stuck to high sec.
I too am very interested, but also concerned about the emphasis on PvP. If all the game systems funnel toward that, I’ll be deeply disappointed … it should have its place, sure, but non-consensual PvP focused games rarely last, and it’s a very niche market. And certainly not what I envisioned when I first heard the Node pitch.
I went to go check out AoC but I am not paying to be a play tester. Will wait for actual release.
Okay, but what exactly is going to facilitate conflict? If everyone in the node benefits, wouldn't everyone just move into that 1 node? Why would the "peasant nodes" even exist?
node citizenship will be soft-capped, i.e. the more citizens there are, the more it costs to become a citizen there. also vassal nodes will benefit from being in the zone of influence of a larger node
We already have AoC, it's called Age of Conan.
Pretty sure everyone just calls that…Conan. Why would you use an acronym if it takes longer to say than the name?
@@lucrative6477 we aren’t saying it, we are typing it
@@lucrative6477 I feel like you might be meaning Conan Exiles, the full nudity Rust-like game
@@lucrative6477 Age of Conan was an MMO that released in the spring of 2008. Not the same as Conan Exiles which is not an MMO. I think AoC is dead now though.
this vid made me want to play AoC it seems so cool and ive been looking for an mmo for myself for a long time after i stopped playing wow. thanks for being such a goat
Looooong time solo EvE player here, the AoC system involving EVERYONE is what faction warfare in EvE should have been. When I still played, half the people in FW systems were not in militias, but just solo pvpers looking for no strings fights or traders making ISK off all the exploding ships, we would have enjoyed getting involved in fights over systems without the hassle of joining militias.
I don’t know if anyone remembers my group but; somewhere in a little singular star system in the ass end of the game my guild held up. Now a very VERY small amount of you will remember the name Rollers, and to those that remember…. Hahaha I tip my hat to ya, it was an honor fighting you all!
We had found an exploit that allowed us to be permanently cloaked and yet still completely battle ready. No uncloaking needed! Does anyone remember getting jumped by 7 or 8 ships that just didn’t appear? Sorry to say that was us.
Now this went on for months, I think our reign of that singular system lasted 9 months. I remember daily raids, almost daily people trying to smoke us or brute force us… but you can’t kill what you can’t see.
Honestly that started as a… joke but we killed the wrong bounty hunter and so he spiraled into multiple people and guilds trying to kill us…
Sadly an empires birthright is to die. One lucky son of a gun managed to get me out the game. StarLeo, if you read this I applaud you! You fought well for a pirate and dare I say you were the best I’d ever fought!
Our little system is now home to a megacorp last time I checked so I won’t name it for now. But I want those who remember us to know: hehe some of us still live.
Again, this sounds too good to be true!
The catch is here. It's riiiight here.
Anyone else saw that title and thought it was about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez playing EVE Online?
I really hope this game comes out soon. looks super fun.
This sounds a LOT like the American frontier wars, random people getting dragged into wars because where their homestead is? That's the wild west.
The madlads successfully transformed patriotism in a game mechanic.
Upon seeing the title I was wracking my brain trying to figure out what suddenly made Age of Conan relevant again
Ehhhhh, the most glaring of issues is population. It would need somewhat close to WoW levels of population for this to matter. Even then, the LARGEST node is just going to win all fights and battles. This is the New World problem, where they had a territory system, and the most populated color just won on the server. The mega corporation just wins every time, can throw as many solos as you want in the smaller node but when the largest guild who has more solo's because it's the largest guild and so most will flock to it? Will just steam roll and run the map, if there are no safety rails for it.
This is more to do with the style of combat in these games. The systems themselves don't lead to this. It's the combat.
If I can /assist or /target or otherwise soft or hard target, critical mass alpha dumping is incredibly difficult to deal with. If the combat is more FPS based, with no targeting? Numbers has strengths, but it isn't artificially boosted by "EVERYONE ASSIST BADBOYJIMMY696969" and then fat finger your way to globally killing people 1 after the next.
There has been at least 1 MMO that was like this, and it showed what was possible for smaller groups to do to bigger less coordinated groups. The problem that game had (darkfall), wasn't the combat, it was pretty much everything else!
@@mercb3ast /cast [@targettarget,harm,nodead][] Spell
Now that was the killer macro... pve pvp, just target your tanks and have at it.
I love most of what you have to say about EVE.
I loved EVE for awhile, I love just being out in space mining. I couldn't care about most of the rest of the game. Even joined Razor to do mining in null sec, but it was the I have to join the huge fights to be able to mine, and that was a bit more than I wanted. Then they took away walking in space. I have yet to return to EVE.
I do miss mining in space, and no other game has been able to give that to me with the view that EVE did.
Sounds really brillant, but also complicated, i hope they can pull it off.
I used to loooove playing Eve. Joined a corp and we had a base in an area that they owned. I took a break for a few months and when I came back, that corporation had disbanded and someone else owned the station. I asked if I could leave and they said yes and then killed me. Lost my best ship and all my stuff was still on that station. I spawn a few dozen systems away with absolutely nothing but my skills and that was enough of that. I hope it's not possible to just lose everything you own in AoC
Ashes of Creation sounds very compelling and interesting to me. When it fully releases in the future, I am deffenitely trying it out!
The node system is genius so long as enemy scale is adjusted properly so as not to lock out new or low level (potentially causal) players. This is more important with larger servers where large areas become impossible to use.
What im most interested in is how fun would that game be for a solo player. ive played many mmos over the years, but im not really a guild joining type of guy
i got into eve cause the shooter game theyve been working on for a decade now, but ive lost interest kinda with the newest build, waiting to see more in late november
As great and fun this sounds as an experience, megalomaniac players/guilds will make their life mission to be a powerhouse force that will see to gain and hold as much as they can, i would not be surprised if most servers see an overpopulated 'level 4' city that never changes hands or locations, or each server has the same nodes leveled exactly the same way to min-max efficiency.
I feel like the vast majority of committed players nowadays arnt even going to bother thinking about not going with the biggest faction/node off the bat, especially when it comes at a risk of loss/opportunity. It feels like most gamers now will play for safety, convenience, and efficiency, over immersion. it may not work like EvE, but it very well may just end up like EvE
Im the type that chooses to go to the quieter places in these type of games, and every time im left looking at what i could of had, thinking "why didnt i just join the mega-guild spaces?". while the few who opts to the quiet spaces are not the type to worry about banding together to achieve a similar size. hard to assume this game will do it perfectly all of a sudden
The thing is not every mega-guild is inherently evil, many will have smaller guilds and independents knowingly and willingly in their areas and they won't attack strangers on site without cause. AOC actively promotes collaborating. Also the system here allows for a collection of medium guilds and smaller to work together and share power in ways other games wouldn't meaning a group of smaller guilds working together can take on a corrupt larger guild.
Would love to see something like this in Elite Dangerous.
The BHS is great and all, but more tangible rewards and random goals would be great.
Yeah but a thing I am not a fan of is subscription based games. With Eve online if you play it enough you can buy the premium currency from other players and get the monthly without having to spend money on it. That's why I like eve online and Albion online. The only semi valid reason for a subscription based games is to help decrease gold bots but if the game is popular enough they are still going to be a problem.
Isn't this actual execution of the promise that Darkfall Online tried and failed to do? Very impressive.
DF didn't try to do this.
They tried to slap a node system into the game, but their node system was nothing like this. Their node system was basically lame pois that had very very very marginal rewards that people could fight over on a timer.
DF would have been a much better game had they presented an organic reason for city building as it turned out, people like me, guy who ran TheMercs and the Afghan alliance, recognized early on that cities were nothing but a time and resource sink that really gave nothing back other than maybe SOME security (once zap towers emerged). Why build a city, when I can just raid your city on a timer, and take all your rare resources whenever I want, because I had my alliance focus on character building, not city building.
Can't wait for roaming bands of stealthy rogues ganking caravans
I wish I could enjoy these kind of games again, I played Ultima years ago and EvE afterwards, but nowadays don't really have the energy for the stress inducing fear of potentially losing everything
your analogy of the eve sov system wasnt quite accurate people outside of the allainces holding sov cant utilize the space like the sov holders can but they can still enter it and hunt the people that are using it which is great for content creation and a staple for some pvp alliances in eve
I think it's really cool that we're talking about Ashes as though it's a real video game now. I mean that completely sincerely. I really hope Intrepid doesn't blow it.
Well, I think the ESS was supposed to kinda do the node thing, but it failed hardcore.
EVE vs Advent of Code? what a weird matchup
Cannot wait to see this play out in game!
The entire premise of EvE is also that you cannot manage things of that scale solo or in a small group.
A small group can maybe setup for a single system or a single wormhole. But to gain control and hold many systems you need the economy of scale.
The underlying issue with that is, once that much effort has been expended, those large groups don't want to pack it in and try something else. There's a reason the main alignment axis of eve has boiled down to two main groups. For years the third slice of the pie is just a proving ground for whatever group holds it, until they're absorbed by one of the two main groups.
The thing that kills any excitement for AoC for me is things like dungeons being open world. They’ve openly said that the bosses are only gonna drop stuff for the group that does the most damage to it. Which just means that bigger guilds are going to monopolize dungeons and kill anyone who tries, ya know, playing the game.
One difference between eve and aoc is aoc force you to be a guild member, they push it so far that you cant even get the best gear without being a guild member. eve doesn't do that you can play eve however you want. So if you played eve and didn't like being a foot soldier for some alliances then played it solo like lowsec pvp or hisec hauling, site running whatever don't play this game cos i think this game doesn't allow solo play as much as eve does. Btw having a SOV in null doesn't mean your untouchable and no one cant come in your sov. Lastly i find this game's development process is a bit unhealthy cos owner of the game design it to the point that force players to play his dream game in his way of playing leaving no room for other ways which is pity cos he is i think very talented and this game is very well designed in many aspects.
What's stop the big level 4 node in the center from overtaking the level 1 peasant nodes that surround it?
This is so awesome! I love this area of design
sounds really cool on paper, but i wonder how this is going to go, either completely ignored, or big guilds will just control the whole server and solo players will just stop playing and the game will die
Has there been a recently released MMORPG with strong community driven systems that lasted for a decent amount of time? Not a baiting question, btw, genuinely interested.
I hear you Thor and even though I can't imagine how AoC will make this happen, not having a single server in 2025 for the sov/node system is a massive let down for big pvp guilds. we'll see
Um... in sov nothing stops players from entering that space. We go raid others all the time. Being within Sov brings perks and system upgrades... a few more things... but that's about it. Yes you have to attack structures to break sov and change hands but even unaligned new players can go and play in pc null. There are quite a few that do relic and data hunting... or in small gang ess or rat/krab hunting
SOV or Socks? What's attacking me?
Too bad AoC will never release
its not gonna work because nobody has enough time to always be on when they need to defend all theyve built up. this system just makes it so you need to be there on time more than you do for your own job in RL.
Hey Thor I love your videos and you inspired me to make my first my first platformer game! I'm using gamemaker but I have some doubts about game resolution, camera and room size, the room size of my game is 1024x768, and I setup the camera to be 640x360, it works but I'm not sure if my game resolution is equal to my camera size, also the game window is based on my room size?? So my game is pixel art, platformer what would it be the best way to set the resolution and camera in gamemaker?
I never tought Eve system was bad until u pointed it out, it can be considered end game content but hey, it locks content from smaller corps unless they join huge alliance
When I read EvE vs AoC I was thinking of Age of Camelot and was very interested in how those two compare. Ah well...
There's this letter I've read in our literature by Eminescu. He wrote a few about our heritage and history fighting nodes 😅. Once upon a time, there was this king that used to dry (our own) all the spring water wells that the enemy needed to use in order to make sure his/hers troupes were not thirsty. By the time the enemy reached our "castle", it was so drained, that we could fight without any palaver. Why? Mens sana in corpore sano. On both sides. Thanks. Morale of the story? Everyone needs water. But only a few know where to dig for an infinite spring.
"You could lose everything" is the part where i draw the line in PVP games. I have played Eve Online before and managed to get a few capital ships in there. It takes a long time to be able to fly them (skill training) and then theres the ingame financial issue. I dont like having to spend years to be able to afford the cool stuff, just for some random guy to take it all away from me just for shits and giggles. Granted it DOES make you very cautious, but when i did lose my ships, it demotivated me so much i quit all together. Not because im mad at losing my shit, but because i dont want to go through all that hassle again just for the same thing to happen again. This is why i stick to PVE games mostly, because its relaxing, much more fun, and you dont lose your stuff
Here i was thinking the politician had something against eve online
I thought it said Ao3 fora second, and I was gonna have some questions for this man.
you dont have to be apart of major alliances in order to get a space in nullspace. you can fight for space if you have numbers. you can also rent space within null. the problem with EVE overall is that its space has been established for a long time now. there have been many wars to fight over space so major null block alliances like panfam and the imperium have been well established for a long time. the major issue right now is recruiting for a new corp / alliance to be able to setup in null without major leverage and isk which takes time
I'm so excited for this game. Been following it since it's kickstarter back in 2017.
I was, too, until I just heard it was pvp only.
@@HeelerDog-u1c wtf it this real? only pvp?
@@antonin2478 my understanding it is, but supposedly they have things in place to "discourage" it, but the types of people attracted to PVP won't be that discouraged. If I learned anything gaming, people ALWAYS find a way around things.
It all sounds good on paper but you need a consistently high server population for the node system to work properly. Also, AoC is leaning towards "sort of a forced PvP" model so that makes it a relatively niche MMO that possibly won't have many players playing.
Other than that, the whole node system seems very cool and unique!